/lit/ - Literature

If you feel that way then read Hyperion by Holderlin.

German romanticist """"spirituality"""" was basically wheatfield maiden simping.

>>22639722
This but actually the glory of Rome

>>22639835
What ideal do you ascribe to that is higher than wheat waifus?

>>22639857
I constantly simp for wheatfield waifus but I recognize its not a high-minded endeavor.

>>22639850
What is the joke here, seriously? It's not the Arch of Titus so it doesn't seem that obvious. Halp dumb anon pls D:

>>22639722
spirituality is cope for brainlets

>>22639722
Look, I respect the Romantics in a way but you absolutely cannot compare them to the real thing, they were turbolarpers. It's like saying the two greatest battles in history were Thermopylae and its reenactment by bored nerds.

>>22639722
>Athens
Sorry, Christianity seems to have propelled mankind farther.
>German Romanticism
Why? Not even as good as Shakespeare.

how the fuck would you know that?
no one here reads poetry and that's most of what they wrote

>>22641307
OP is a German being as subtle as a Jew promoting Jewish fiction.

>>22639835
And what known works do you ascribe this to?

>>22641307
>>22641324
Not super related but am I a provincial tard for not wanting to read poetry in translation? It just seems to me that a literary form based on the beauty of language and meter would lose a lot in translation.

>>22641341
Only if you fail to learn the languages in question.

Does this answer help?

>>22641203
Tieck and Schlegel made Shak-spere better

I don't know so much about ancient Athens, but it's a weird position to hold with respect to German Romanticism, because a lot of the force animating that period was the sense of being on the edge of something vast, new and unexplored, of being in the early dawn-light of an era full of possibilities both terrifying and exhilarating. Calling it a 'peak' therefore seems to betray the spirit of the thing you're praising. Not to mention it's just a vapid and boring way to talk about culture anyway.

>>22639722
Wrong.

Late Antiquity, the Patristics, is the peak. Late Antiquity is the marriage of two cultures, Greek and Hebrew, the twin pillars of the West. Both are key. In Ecclesiastes, you see a depth the precious Greeks couldn't match, but in the Greeks ingenuity you do get a very good fusion and development of previous ideas (e.g. Plato's development of the Theory of Forms from Egyptian Memphite Theology).

In terms of literary works it's tough. The Canticle of Canticles is sublime. But so is Antigone. The Hebrews tradition doesn't really have stuff like Plato until later (Philo, etc.) but then the Greek tradition lacks anything like Isiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, etc.

The fuse later with stuff like the Wisdom of Solomon, and reach their climax in the New Testament.

>>22639722
Actually it was 19th century Russia

>>22639722
>Upon the realm of aesthetics and philosophic Criticism it may be demonstrated, almost palpably, that it was predestined for the German spirit to seize and assimilate the Foreign, the primarily remote from it, in utmost purity and objectivity of intuition (in höchster objektiver Reinheit der Anschauung). One may aver, without exaggeration, that the Antique would have stayed unknown, in its now universal world-significance, had the German spirit not recognised and expounded it. The Italian made as much of the Antique his own, as he could copy and remodel; the Frenchman borrowed from this remodelling, in his turn, whatever caressed his national sense for elegance of Form: the German was the first to apprehend its purely-human originality, to seize therein a meaning quite aloof from usefulness, but therefore of the only use for rendering the Purely-human. Through its inmost understanding of the Antique, the German spirit arrived at the capability of restoring the Purely-human itself to its pristine freedom; not employing the antique form to display a certain given 'stuff,' but moulding the necessary new form itself through an employment of the antique conception of the world. To recognise this plainly, let anyone compare Goethe's Iphigenia with that of Euripides. One may say that the true idea of the Antique has existed only since the middle of the eighteenth century, since Winckelmann and Lessing.

>>22639808
Wagner > Holderlin

>>22639722
>Athens
>Not Sparta
shiggy

>>22639722
>spritual and cultural peak of mankind
That would be the Islamic golden age, your judgement is clouded by eurocentrism into simping for pseuds

>>22641727
I know you guys aren't much for spelling but you are currently posting on /lit/, not /fit/. Alcman is great though I'll give them that.

>>22641809
arabs are so arrogant its unreal

>>22641809
Wasn't this literally founded upon Greek philosophy? If you'd said India or China you would at least not have completely kneecapped your own argument from the start.

>>22641691
They were even less necessary than the Muslims for the preservation for Western philosophy. Anglo and French studies did more than the Germans ever did.

>>22639722
>G*rm "subtly" tries to promote German lit
>Anons call him on it and it blows up in his face
Why are the Germans like this?

For me it's French medieval Renaissance (Bernard, Thomas Aquinas and Bonaventura, First Crusade, apogee of Romanesque art and birth of Gothic art , urban schools and universities, courtly love and literature, Chrétien de Troyes, gregorian reform, Louis IX, great faith) > Italian Renaissance (Michelangelo, da Vinci, Dante, Petrarch, Boccacio, Botticelli, Marco Polo, medicean neoplatonism, Caravaggio) = Greece golden age (Plato, Aristotle, epicurism, stoicism, Eschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, Aristophanes, birth of historiography, mythology, geometry, Olympic games)> German Idealism (Kant, Schiller, Hegel, Holderlin, Goethe, Wagner, Schelling, Beethoven)

>>22641727
Cultural wise Sparta was way behind Athens. You could say spiritually it was more virile and healthy however.

>>22641203
>Christianity seems to have propelled mankind farther
blatant bait is boring, try harder.

>>22642107
Plato and Aristotle have far more in common with Islam than cuckstianity

>>22642107
Plato and Aristotle were Muslims

>>22641691
babble babble babble. Wagner-anon snap out of this. Wagner music bows in front of larger, more playful and less philosophy-obssessed geniuses like Mozart and Beethoven, his literary ideas and overall poetic are derivative and kitsch, like the totality of German thought production with the exception of Kant, Wittgenstein, Kafka and Bernhard. All the rest can be skipped and thrown away.
This is a culture whose sense of wonder was battered into submission by a guy who thought being religious is about paying your taxes. They have nothing to contribute and contributed almost nothing except the invention of the work ethics that crushes you and me today and the idea that people are poor because they don't work hard enough. 600 years of natural born nazi prescriptive and normative philosophy has produced some of the dullest possible ideas in humanity, and the only language that reads as if it's a dead language despite being spoken by a living population in a European state.
A single page from Dante, Shakespeare, Flaubert or Joyce is worth more than almost anything produced in Germany, and you'd see this if you had any good taste and didn't think that art is about mixing some esoteric bullshit mediavel symbolism into retelling tales of knights fining magic cups.

that'd be now

None of you philistines have even read Schlegel, Novalis, Hölderlin, Tieck, Wackenroder, Jean Paul, Schlegel, Bonaventura, et al.!!

>>22641341
You find a good dual-language edition and read slowly

>>22641531
The NT is a disgusting spew of villainous dissemblance.

>>22639857
>tfw no wheat waifu

>>22641727
Sparta lost, Thebes won

>>22643621
German lit lost. Get over it, chud.

>>22643621
>Schlegel
Was he Hegel's Wario?

the history of germany is really pathetic.
it starts with them being generic barbarians trying to meaninglessly fuck some very local romans and always failing . They do it only to fill up their days and try to pass as local hardcore heroes towards their retarded local population lol

then they become nothing. France was all the most powerful kingdom ever. Spain, Italy, GB all achieve some relevance too.Meanwhile germany was still a shithole with little warlords killing each others lol.

Then progress was made by france once more. This time with the enlightenment. The german rats were 100 years late on this and the output of the german renaissance is turds like kant, hegel and nietzche lol

Then world wars happened entirely due to german rats.
Of course they got crushed like the rat they were.

Since then germany is a generic american bitch and has been trying to destroy europe for the last 20 years lol, which is why it's still popular among low iq americans and the subhumans europeans

>>22643746
are you brown or anglo? imagine misrepresenting such a great history in this fashion

truly pathetic

>>22643588
>wagner is kitsch

try listening to some current music and you'll see true kitsch

>>22639722
Wrong it was Anglo-Saxon England

>>22641531
Stop posting shitty AI pics your fucking reddit nigger

>>22643757
>great history
germans were illiterate and lived in mud huts when most of the world was civilized

>>22643759
the current blockbuster soundtrack industry is basicaly a re-branding of wagner kitch orchestral "hero-themed" bullshit, to the point that they still literally use wagner for stupid bullshit hero propaganda american movie, anon.
The fact that, on top of this, they also invented a kitscheri, negroid and tribalistic pop music obsessed with sex and money to convince me to go to work instead of listening to Mozart does not make Wagner any less kitsch. I bet you also like places like Neuschwanstein and the like, instead of actual castles

>>22643588
>Wittgenstein, Kafka
Very funny.

>Dante, Shakespeare, Flaubert or Joyce
Religious nuts.

>Mozart and Beethoven
Caged by aestheticism.

>Wagner, Holderlin
In the right direction.

>>22643746
What is a bigot.

>>22643832
You're brown

>>22642199
>preservation
No one claimed the Germans 'preserved' Greek philosophy, but their interpretation of it has undoubtedly been more important than any others.

>>22643588
Holy shit you are self-absorbed. Your entire post is the most horrendous mix of subjectivity (German culture = worthless except for Kant, Wittgenstein, Kafka and Bernhard), cliches (Wagner is movie music) and popular knowledge (Mozart and Beethoven are great). Your knowledge is inept on every subject you have an opinion on. Do all Bernhard fans suffer from this level of cultural dunning-kruger?

>>22644859
>No one claimed the Germans 'preserved' Greek philosophy, but their interpretation of it has undoubtedly been more important than any others.
Who are the most important German interpreters of Greek philosophy in your opinion?

>>22643241
Well, at least this is relatively coherent. I just don't think anything compares with the simultaneous purity and sophistication of Greek culture.

>>22643502
Mashallah my brother.

>>22643588
If I ever said something as retarded as you manage almost independently in every sentence, I would just kill myself.

>>22639722
>g*rmoid anything
kys

italian romanticism was a mix between nordic romanticism and neoclassicism so its superior to any other movement

>>22643588
based, but also cringe.

>>22639722
Sounds so very high and lofty. What are books and authors on this subject?