/lit/ - Literature

>>22635531
Urth works as a coda to BOTNS and will 'answer' some questions that were left open. I read it straight after BOTNS and enjoyed it, but you may have a different experience if you decide to go ahead and re-read botns first.
Personally I would suggest reading urth and then reading the solar cycle in its entirety. But it's up to you.

I read book then urth
Taking a break from Wolfe then gonna read the rest of the cycle
Sev tells you to read the book again immediately, but that was (I think) when it was the only book in the series out.
Jolenta consented and even if she didn't it wouldn't matter

Reddit series for catholic cucks. It literally ends with the MC about to have his dick cut off by aliens. A solid 6/10.

>>22635618
You never take a day off do you lol.

>>22635531
Read Urth first, it will give you a new point of view on the series during your rereading

>>22635531
i went right into urth after finishing citadel and loved it. the first bit is kind of odd and different as it is now full blown sci fi, but the second half is magical. i second >>22635926 this anon. urth answers a lot of questions you had after citadel and will make the rereading of the series better.

Only read Urth if you want to read The Book of the Long Sun. It doesn't answer directly any questions but it does elaborates in some explanations Sev gives to himself in the first 4 books.

>>22635531
>Seemed like a sound idea
It was. You need to re-read the series to pick up on the things you missed the first time.
>Should I just get right on to reading the Urth of the New Sun
Wolfe considered it unnecessary. His publishers leaned on him to "finish" the series with a fifth volume, but he regarded it as finished already.

>>22635531
Nothing against Urth, I appreciate every morsel of hard facts we're given, but Citadel had just the perfect ending to a long spiritual journey, of leaving this world behind to stand in judgement before the Divine, hoping to be deemed sufficient.

>>22637937
And having your bollocks chopped off if you're not.

>>22635531
I think it's best to leave some time before reading Urth so by all means read the first two again.
Maybe check out some other Wolfe, Fifth Head or Cerberus is an obvious next, though Peace is better.

>>22637937
I agree, it felt very hopeful to me. As much as I liked it though, I just don't want to say goodbye to Severian or the way these books were written in general, which is why I immediately felt the urge to reread it

Do any of the "hard facts" we're given reduce the impact or mystique of the earlier books? Do they ruin it in any way?

>>22638569
>Do any of the "hard facts" we're given reduce the impact or mystique of the earlier books? Do they ruin it in any way?
nah, Urth resolves some of the more outstanding stuff from earlier without overly explaining any mechanics and just introducing more things you won't get hard answers for.

>>22638743
that's good, I'm mostly just torn because the ending of Citadel makes re-reading the first two seem very appropriate, but by the time I finish them I may feel like I need to re-read the next two again... it feels equally appropriate to read on and see what else becomes of Severian

I suppose I'm just spinning my wheels

>>22638763
you're going to love rereading them even more after urth though. i think the ending to citadel was fine but i thoroughly enjoyed more time with the main character and getting some answers to the more supernatural things in the first 4 books. the second half leading into the ending is fucking awesome.

What was everyone’s favourite book of the series? I feel like I’m the only one who liked Sword best.

>>22638942
Claw is easily my favorite, I think I'd put them
Claw > Lictor >= Sword > Citadel

>>22638949
Sorry,
Claw > Lictor >= Shadow > Citadel

>>22638953
For me it’s Lictor > Claw = Shadow > Citadel. Curious: what did you dislike about Citadel to place it last? For me, it just had one too many digressions.

>>22638995
I don't think Citadel is bad but it almost feels like Lictor could've been edited into Citadel for one final volume instead of splitting it into 2. There was some parts I really liked, I think the resolution to Severian's journey is fantastic, but so much of Citadel just feels like filling time that has to be filled to justify a volume. Maybe I would change my mind on a re-read, it has been a number of years, but the fact I remember what happens in Citadel the least is proof enough for me that I'm correct in my feelings towards it.
So I guess I feel about the same as you, lol.

>>22639006
>>22638995
Oh yeah, the "let us waste like 4 chapters on a bunch of meaningless stories just to have the characters get nuked directly afterwards" was such a bizarre decision. Maybe I just didn't get it, idk. The house at the end of the Earth thing was cool, though.

>>22639006
>>22639014
I do wonder if we’re probably being a little harsh in our treatment of Citadel, since I can’t claim to fully understand the meaning of all those rich side stories and how they relate to Severian’s quest.

The reason Lictor is such a favourite of mine is because I feel it contains the bulk of Severian’s inner transformation, from his arrival at Thrax, his beginning to question himself and what his place truly is in the world, his ultimate decision to abandon his post… and that followed by my favourite part of his journey, through the mountains, over the world, and just brushing the stars; and in a way, after all his somewhat eccentric but ever so delicious musings so far, for the first time really coming into contact with metaphysics proper, with the meanings of space, time, nature. Feeling his own helplessness for the first time, his hunger, his thirst, knowing true tiredness, but also true freedom for the first time, away from the strictures of name and rank and duty, the very mode of being man contra beast; and making a conscious decision to maintain his selfhood through it all than to give in to the eternal pull of eclecticism and savagery: here I’m thinking of his leaving money for the meal scavenged from the shepherd’s dwelling among other things. Afterward, quite literally slaying the proverbial dragon (alzabo) in a desperate attempt to save the shred of innocence (little Severian) he found in the world; and we know how that ends. Just the overall tragic realisation of the volume stands in stark contraposition to the skew Severian has had against the world so far, with his strength and station and sword. Followed by the intense emotional rollercoaster of one of the other greatest scenes in the series: the bombastic encounter with Typhon. Unfortunately, I’m not a writer like Wolfe, so I can’t speak of my appreciation for this book without laying on the superlatives a little thick, but I hope I’m able to get across what it meant to me.

>>22639468
Quality posts like yours, Anon, are the reason I keep coming to this God-forsaken website

>>22639014
>>22639468
those stories added a lot of flavor to the world and i remember thinking the rooster story was a very meaningful one to severian after finishing the series. it has been a while so perhaps i should reread them.

>>22639006
The main thing I remember from Citadel is Severian being in an actual war which I think is important for the character and world that we get to see that and also important for Wolfe, i think it's probably the closest he got to writing about his Korean War experiences.
The line about how war isn't just an activity it's a different world where things of no importance like random hills are suddenly the most important thing in the universe.

>>22640308
Has always stuck with me.

>>22640308
>i think it's probably the closest he got to writing about his Korean War experiences.
I don't disagree, but I still think him finding that girl in Thrax is probably the closest we get to Wolfe's own experience. The visceral detail of it made me almost certain Wolfe was in the exact same situation as Severian at one point.

>>22640383
Fire weapons were used in Korea, weren't they? Might explain the girl.

Wolfebros, this just came in the mail. Online images mostly fail to capture how amazing the art is.

>>22640461
based wolfe loving anon.

>>22640461
Nice anon. I'm probably going to read Long Sun next year. Currently, I'm fatigued from marathoning New Sun. Guessing you just started book 3 of LS, so how do you like the series so far and how does it hold up to NS?

>>22640491
I actually just finished Short Sun a few days ago and decided that I wanted the individual copies of all the books instead of collected editions. That was just the first one to arrive.

As far as your question goes I liked Long Sun a lot, but it's very different than New Sun to the point that which one you like better is probably going to come down to your preferences. It's a much smaller story and more of a mystery than an adventure. The writing is just as good and remains as good for the rest of the series.

>>22640480
You know it.

>>22640461
I thought about getting the old singular novels but honestly the omnibus paperbacks are pretty nice too, with good art, and obviously much easier to get ahold of. Crazy how much better the Long Sun books have been treated than New Sun, especially since Long Sun is considerably less well known.

>>22640577
i wish that was me. stuck on e-ink due to space.

>>22640461
>an actually good wolfe cover
apart from shadow & claw I didn't expect to see one of these

>Overall, I found nothing unique in Wolfe. Perhaps it's because I've read quite a bit of odd fantasy; if all I read was mainstream stuff, then I'd surely find Wolfe unpredictable, since he is a step above them. But compared to Leiber, Howard, Dunsany, Eddison, Kipling, Haggard, Peake, Mieville, or Moorcock, Wolfe is nothing special.
>Perhaps I just got my hopes up too high. I imagined something that might evoke Peake or Leiber (at his best), perhaps with a complexity and depth gesturing toward Milton or Ariosto. I could hardly imagine a better book than that, but even a book half that good would be a delight--or a book that was nothing like that, but was unpredictable and seductive in some other way.
>I kept waiting for something to happen, but it never really did. It all plods along without much rise or fall, just the constant moving action to make us think something interesting is happening. I did find some promise, some moments that I would have loved to see the author explore, particularly those odd moments where Silver Age Sci Fi crept in, but each time he touched upon these, he would return immediately to the smallness of his plot and his annoying prick of a narrator. I never found the book to be difficult or complex, merely tiring. the unusual parts were evasive and vague, and the dull parts constant and repetitive.
>The whole structure (or lack of it) does leave things up to interpretation, and perhaps that's what some readers find appealing: that they can superimpose their own thoughts and values onto the narrator, and onto the plot itself. But at that point, they don't like the book Wolfe wrote, they like the book they are writing between his lines.
Wolfebros......

>>22640610
don't reply to the copypasta bait, guys

>>22640616
that review was from someone that didn't even finish shadow, iirc.

>>22640624
It is amusing to say the least, though I have to wonder where they were getting the "silver age scifi" out of Shadow? Maybe the gardens? Dunno, most of the scifi shit doesn't hit the forefront till at least Lictor.

Despite how many times I've re-read Shadow through Urth I was quite able to figure out if Severian was just a retard or if the vastness of the world and the loss of knowledge meant that the levels of education between even what is considered aristocracy were just that differing. Like in Urth when he describes the ability for people to take jobs on the ship to make a fuckton of money in like a week of their homeworld time. How would you, as a basic resident of (???), even figure out about this? How would you for sure calculate all the timey wimey stuff to make sure you didn't get completely fucked over and end up like ancient or something before you even got back home? Or everyone you knew died before you got back home?
Even that aside, Severian constantly seems to know so little, even in Urth. Did nobody seriously explain to him what the deal with the ship was? They just put him on that bitch and were just like "figure it out yourself"?

>>22640788
>They just put him on that bitch and were just like "figure it out yourself"?
i actually think they did this if i remember correctly. the autarch had many enemies and no one was supposed to know about his identity. i think this is proven when zach is arrested in the adonis body as the autarch

I hope I get to see someone spectacularly fail at adapting these books before I die

>>22641285
>thecla becomes the main character through severian
>vodalus is gay and black
>white people destroyed the sun

>>22641596
the only white woman would be Agia

>>22641671
The entire series takes place in South America. The only major character that has to be white is Loyal to the Group of Seventeen.

>>22641949
the entire series is about an Earth with a dying sun, anon. if anything, everyone should be some ugly pale discoloration

>>22638942
If you mean the entire cycle, On Blue's Waters. Really atmospheric and melancholic in a way I never really got from the rest of the series.
For New Sun I've got to go with Sword since the Heirodule scene is my favorite one in the series.

>>22641596
I think by far the biggest hurdle for an adaptation would be finding a way to depict the unreliability and lies of Severian without beating you over the head with it. Visual design and casting would obviously be a factor, but the long stretches of nothing buy Severian talking at the audience and not being entirely upfront would be hellish to try and put to screen.
You could always go for one of those artiste minimalism things and just forgo the narration altogether, but then you just end up with a bog-standard adventure story with assumedly pretty visuals.

>>22638953
For me it's
Sword>Shadow>Claw>Citadel>Urth

Urth felt so different from the others. I feel like I'm going to have to re-read it to appreciate it more. Haven't read Long or Short Sun yet.

>>22643386
that would also kind of ruin the journey a bit. all the sci fi stuff would be revealed just on screen instead of realizing what severian is seeing because it's just the norm to him. like the matachin tower being an old rocket, the painting being neil armstrong, typhon's area being made up of cubicles and lab equipment, etc.

>>22643704
I think that could somewhat be retained with clever camera work and good visual design, the book is a fusion of fantasy and sci-fi after all, and the creator would have a lot of license to go crazy on some aspects while keeping the initial reveal of ex. the Typhon scene just as shocking. Something like not ever fully showing the Matachin Tower, but dropping sufficient hints in some shots that get the watcher thinking, basically. Idk how you'd handle the Armstrong photo though, although instances where he is faced directly with something like that are pretty rare and I think could be worked around if given care.
By the time you get to Lictor the jig is up anyway, stuff like the Typhon scene would just serve to rub it in.

>>22643695
>Urth felt so different from the others.
Urth is almost completely different in presentation, there's very little introspection from Severian like there is in the main series of novels and while you are still viewing the events through the lens of Severian's own confusion, you as the reader are "up to speed" so to speak and I think Wolfe knew he'd no longer be working within the same limitations as BotSN.

I think my reread, when it happens, is going to look like
>Fifth Head
>New Sun
>Urth
>Fifth Head
>Long Sun
>Fifth Head
>Short Sun
>Fifth Head
Any other stuff I might want to include? I know there are some sort stories out there. Yes, I plan to read Fifth Head of Cerberus four times on the reread.

>>22644483
kek
Castle of Days isn't bad

>>22644483
NS-only pleb here. What's the qrd on Fifth Head? Is it that good?

>>22644513
Fifth Head is good enough to be grouped-in with the Solar Cycle (New Sun, Urth, Long Sun, Short Sun). As a group, these constitute his best novels (in my opinion).

After that, Wizard Knight and Latro are pretty good.

I found his other novels worth reading, but not at the same level as those above.

>>22644521
I'll read Fifth Head then since I'm in the mood for something standalone. I love the Greeks so I'm guessing it will be right up my alley.

>>22644513
Fifth Head is my favorite thing Gene has ever written. 'A Story' particularly. It's genuine paleo-lit (perhaps even pre-paleo, dendro-lit?) that never feels hokey. Genuinely awe-inspiring every time I read it. Sublime shit.

>>22644513
The Fifth Head of Cerberus is like the prototype for the entire Solar Cycle, despite not technically being a part of it. All of the major themes and ideas in those novellas got fleshed out over the 12 books. Understanding Fifth Head gives you insight into all parts of The Solar Cycle and vice versa.

It would be a shame to overhype Fifth Head of Cerberus, but it's a fucking masterclass in... most things that goes into writing, especially speculative fiction.

>>22644513
It is way better imo than BOTNS, but it depends on your tastes.

Fifth Head > Short Sun > New Sun > Long Sun > Wizard Knight

I won't include the Soldier series because they were too autistic for even me to get through, but they're probably above Long Sun or Wizard Knight

>>22644521
The Wizard Knight had a lot of moments that are as good as the best parts of the Solar Cycle but it just didn't quite come together as well. It could have been a masterpiece with better editing.

Long Sun really fell off

>>22645536
The only part holding it back was the slog of spending time with the Giants at the beginning of Wizard. That was way too long for what it was.

>>22635587
She was practically asking for it

>>22645546
>it's a "they go back into the tunnels" chapter

>>22645053
>but it depends on your tastes
Can you elaborate on which ways it's better/worse?

>You finished BotNS? Time to read Urth.
>You finished Urth? Time to read Long Sun.
>You finished Long Sun ? Time to read Short Sun.
>You finished Short Sun? Time to re-read BotNS.
>I will re-read Short Sun before re-reading Long Sun.
>I will re-read Urth and then re-read BotNS.
>my BotNS shelf
>Shadow is better than Claw
>Claw is better than Urth
>Urth is better than Long
>Long is better than Shadow
>you really need to re-read Long Sun before you re-read Urth if you want to really understand it
I can appreciate the comfy, but how come the only times Wolfe thread discusses the actual book contents are the shitposts about whether Sev raped Jolenta?

It's like the books are a scripture and re-reading it is a riligious ritual, while discussion of what is written is a heretical act. It's kinda gay.

>>22647657
Kek I tried to discuss Sword earlier and nobody wanted to engage except one anon who told me it’s a good post. I was hoping he’d give his own view. You have a point here, but in all fairness these books are not easy to talk about, unless you have a lot of experience with them. They’re quite dazzling on a first read.

>>22647657
There was a thread from not too far back where the contents of the book were heavily discussed. Search the archive for 'Hierogrammates' and you'll probably find it in no time.

>>22647733
Well yeah - I remember that thread, because I was the guy who made all the effortpost answers.

>>22647780
Nah, you're thinking of me.

>>22644218
What is the thing in the pic?

>>22649227
There's a part in Citadel where a group of naked winged women with guns show up to kill some bandits trying to steal some gold. They are basically special forces for the Autarch. The Autarch has quite a few genetically modified creatures in his service.

>>22645666
Upon reread I didn't mind the diplomacy subplot as much. My issue is that it feels like a much larger world pared down to just two books (much of whose volume is random autistic dialogue). The result is jarring issues with the pacing and unsatisfying non-endings for some characters who initially seemed really well-constructed. The Garsecg subplot felt like it got waved aside for a really weird ending, Gylf and Mani get completely sidelined despite finally having their characters start to open up. I'm probably just retarded for not understanding the Room of Lost Love thing but I wish there could have been at least a little more elaboration. It reminded me of Malrubius's mirrors, but those at least give you a little to work with since Short Sun brings him back.
>>22645546
>I'm going to ask you three questions. Do you understand? That previous question does not count as one of the three. If you fail to answer a question, I reserve the right to ask two different questions instead. Do you agree to this? That does not count as one of the three either
>I agree, on the condition that you first answer one question from me and promise to tell me everything you know about the whereabouts of some minor character. Do you accept these conditions? That does not count as my one question
>Repeat for fifty pages
I love Wolfe but you can tell how autistic he was by how much he loved legalistic dialogue and precise conditions for negotiations.

>>22635618
Quite this, 4chan meme book since this place is larping as tradcaths but I'd rather read Drizz or even Bakker than this shit again

>>22649267
>Have the power to engineer therianthropes, cloned noblewomen, valkyries, and any other /d/ shit you can imagine
>Can't enjoy any of it because ayys cut off your balls
The Autarch had it rough

>>22649442
Unfortunately the technology required to regrow his mutilated crotch was lost...

>>22649463
i imagine beings of the magnitude of tzadkiel would systematically eradicate the possibility of him being able to reproduce.

Bump

>>22652620
Pick something you want to talk about, bump-san.

Let's talk about Jonas

Why was sev so attached to him?

>>22653314
Well I'm no great analyst. The straightforward answer could just be that an exiled Severian had to bond with someone in a way that wasn't sexual. Baldanders and Talos are simply too odd. Severian right off the bat thinks Baldanders is a big retard in Talos's care and Talos is probably too mischievous for his liking. Jonas on the other hand seems pretty chill. Plus, he dishes out some wisdom for Severian regarding the world. It also wouldn't be too surprising for me to imagine that Severian has a deep longing for deeper connections with people that he may not let on. Despite saying all this, I'm sure I'm missing something big. Wolfe certainly loves his deeper meaning and connections.

>>22653441
I think you're right, I do think that he at least appreciates the connection given how he spoke of Jonas
I remember that line about needing the mirror of other people to see himself in when he was traveling alone, but obviously he's gonna desire connection in that state. He always struck me as friendlier than expected desu, maybe friendlier is the wrong word but a better one fails me right now, he's like the perfect protagonist in my opinion though. Maybe not a perfect person but his interactions are always pretty earnest

>>22640491
not him, but i think it's just as good, if not better, than botns. just like botns, you're thrown into this confusing new world. it takes a few chapters to get your bearings, but it really picks up after that. it's best to go into it not knowing anything about it.

>>22635531
It's alright, the book peaked when the incel protagonist got laid. It gets boring after that.

>>22653937
Wait, is it not the same world as NS?

>>22654518
Same universe, different setting.

>>22654518
Same universe, but the setting of Long Sun couldn't possibly be more different than the setting of New Sun

>>22653441
i wish we could have more jonas. the way he spoke was so cozy. i love in claw when he begs the question of justice when severian executes the innocent woman in that mining town. i feel like this was a turning point for severian in how he looked at his oath or "secret" of the torturer's guild. in citadel, he misses jonas so much so he hallucinates the dead soldier actually being jonas reborn.

>>22654852
Yeah, he was definitely an important figure in helping Severian develop. When he leaves through the mirrors it definitely felt sort of forlorn, like Severian was on his own now. Kinda got that feeling again when Dorcas leaves him in Lictor.

>>22654876
I think it's because he was one of the few people who was able to accept Severian and not regard him with suspicion and careful distance. Probably because of his own confused and worldly past.

Is Urth of the new sun just one book?

>>22655477
Yeah. The Solar Cycle is
>4 books +
>1 book +
>4 books +
>3 books

Why did the covers get progressively worse? The first two are the only good ones.

>>22635531
>"But it was not my body that was impaled, but hers. We had been standing while I ran my hands over her and kissed her breasts, that were like round fruits sliced in two."
>"I could feel the nipple, as firm as a cherry, and the warmth of the gentle mound beneath it,
delicate, feather-soft and alive with racing blood. "
>" I felt stupid withdesire, thick-headed and thick-tongued as I pressed her warmth against my own cold flesh....Tears appeared in her eyes, rising as springs do among rocks."
>"I love you! I longed for you when we were together, and tried to give
myself to you a score of times. Don't you remember the Garden of Delectation?
How much I wanted to take you there? It would have been rapture for us both, but
you wouldn't go."

>>22655751
The Long Sun omnibuses are the only ones in the Cycle that aren't fuck-ugly. Wolfe either didn't care about cover art or didn't have the power to veto it.
>>22655795
This is exactly how a touch-starved sperg would write a sex scene so it works for BotNS. Wolfe can actually write some solid romantic stuff when he tries (Horn/Nettle in SS and Chris/Novia in Pirate Freedom (underrated book btw))

>>22654876
Dorcas leaving in Lictor is pretty heart wrenching, imho more so than Jonas dipping out. Jonas leaving was shoved between the wandering in the House Absolute and the play, your eyes are basically immediately drawn from it and you don't feel the dull pain of his departure again till Citadel. Dorcas leaving and the Severian immediately being banished to the wastes with nothing to his name really emphasizes his loneliness I think. You can tell Severian is/was super upset and is trying to push it down and out of the text to maintain whatever facade he thinks he still has going.

>>22656233
>You can tell Severian is/was super upset and is trying to push it down and out of the text to maintain whatever facade he thinks he still has going.
He does have the little line where he compares when he left the guild he drew up his hood to hide his smile, but after Dorcas left he drew it up to hide his tears.

>>22655751
Shadow and Claw are good covers. Sword and Citadel are good drawings but bad covers.
Nightside is a bad cover and mediocre drawing, the rest of Long Sun has amazing covers.
Short Sun covers are kinda meh on both counts.
The Bruce Pennington covers are great.
The Guillaume Sorel cover is great.

>>22643386
>unreliability and lies of Severian
What lies? Severian is an unreliable narrator, not because he's dishonest, but because he's led a sheltered life and doesn't always understand what's going on.

>>22653314
It's no mystery. Jonas was just funny and likable.

>>22656744
He lies about the nature of his relationship with Thecla.
But in general, yeah. Severian doesn't lie very much throughout the series. This assertion is one of the major reasons I disliked Alzabo Soup.

>>22656837
Alzabo Soup and the new Podcast doing New Sun are both awful the second they go beyond synopsis. I will say the people doing Shelved by Genre are at least more intellectually capable than the troglodytes doing Soup, but their ideological ax grinding means they frequently completely fail to grasp Wolfe's intentions while they spend time arguing in a circle about nonsense. To add to that they have this absurd unstated desire to tear down the quote unquote great man theory of literature which leads them to assert demonstrably false notions as the truth disguised as superior knowledge of the craft. The main dude tried to postulate that Severian and Thecla becoming one was actually a later development that Wolfe hadn't forseen in the first novel, then when called out and corrected that the whole of the work was in draft form before the first novel came out still insisted that Wolfe could have added it. It was an insane level of cope and betrays a general intellectual dishonesty so common in both the left and right when they try to ascribe meaning to works rather than describe meanings. If he'd done his home work as an actual critic he would know that Wolfe had already had an interest in the one body multiple people thing, that the religious notions Wolfe was exploring require there to be a Trinity and Communion analogue, and that just because some writers go volume by volume does not imply all authors are flying by the seat of their pants; especially ones trained as an engineer a profession known for designing and then fabricating.

>>22656744
All the important facts he omits only to then accidentally spill 100 pages later surely amounts to him being dishonest. You can only play the "oops I forgor" card so many times...

>>22656974
he has a perfect recall memory but not immediate recollection. the alzabo soup dudes trash him a lot for stating his memory is perfect but then he somehow gets lost in thrax but they seem to forget the distinction severian makes. he can perfectly remember everything but it's not always immediately available.

>>22656893
I give Shelved by Genre a lot more leeway because they're doing a more vibes based entertainment thing, a beat-by-beat analysis. I disagree with them sometimes, but in a less visceral way. People are allowed to interpret things their own way, especially since they're not presenting themselves as Wolfe experts.
I'm also looking forward to listening more to Rereading Wolfe since I stopped once theybstarted mentioning stuff from the other series that I've since finished.

>>22657014
>*Not a beat-by-beat analysis.

>>22657014
Rereading Wolfe is excellent and easily the best one of these podcasts, but yeah you need to read Long Sun and Short Sun first before you listen to it because they are not afraid of including them in their analysis.

>>22657014
It's really just the one dude, I don't know his name I can't keep the two white guys separate, that drives most of my annoyance with the podcast. Austin is great though, it's nice to have someone so purely excited to hash shit out and explore the world Wolfe created.

As >>22657038 said, Rereading is by and by far the best, but is also fully down the rabbit hole of Wolfe scholarship and insane theorycrafting. There is no podcast I disagree with more than Rereading, but there is not podcast that I trust the opinion of the participants as much.

The Gene Wolfe Literary Podcast is also great but at the rate they are going they won't be hitting Shadow for three or four more years. Their companion weird fiction show is also interesting as hell and got me into some works I'd have never read otherwise. I don't know if the thread knows but there is actually another Wolfe pod that started recently called Unreliable Narrators that seems to be Spotify exclusive. They've only got two episodes but it's been pretty good aside from the starting audio issues most pods have.

>>22656837
>the nature of his relationship with Thecla.
...how?

>>22657487
Near the beginning he denies ever having an intimate relationship with her. That's not something you forget in the moment.

>>22655795
>I'm too stupid to realise it's from the POV of a virgin raised in a male-only trauma cult
So this is why people get filtered by BOTNS? because they don't understand character?

>>22657487
The only thing I have ever seen as “doshonest” from severian in regards to thecla is that he obviously had a one sided love for her. But as to straight up lies I can’t recall any either