/lit/ - Literature

>>22622237
Which of his positions do you think run contrary to leftist thought?

>>22622242
His affirmation of the state and the whole "upholding of Trinitarian Christian Dogma" that forms the backbone of the Dialectic

From what I've read, he is also Explicitly against atheism. So bizarre that Leftists claim him.

i swear if i hear the word "left" or "right" one more time im gonna pop your fucking retarded brain cherries you fucking moron, stop trying to comprehend hegel and read doctor suess first you absolute fucking retards there's no such thing as left or right wing, politics is a sham in general and you should be ashamed, meditate for half an hour and you'll learn more than any discussion involving the political spectrum, read toa te ching or any buddhism or anything at all, jesus christ, who gives a fuck what political spectrum anything falls on, fuck it makes me angry, so unproductive and illogical

>>22622261
not all leftists are athiests

>>22622237
Most of that is probably due to Marx, Hegel gets thrown into the loop due to a number of Hegelian influences in Marx's thought, and Marx was arguably Hegel's most well known student. If not for Marx I sincerely doubt he would get the attention he does from the left.

>>22622274
>not all leftists are athiests

>>22622237
How the hell does Marx claim to be at all related to Hegel? Never understood the connection other than that Marx uses the word “dialectic” occasionally.

>>22622293
I'm referring more to contemporary left wing thought and thinkers rather than just Marx specifically. Although, the entire concept of Dialectical Materialism, greatly and crudely simplified, is an inversion of the the Hegelian process in which which the ideal generates the material such that it is, in actuality, the the material(economy) that effects changes in the superstructure(the ideal)

>>22622342
That is the first time someone has been able to explain that to me, thank you my friend. I don’t know enough about Hegel to really comment but I appreciate that.

It just seemed odd that Hegel basically calls out pure materialists in the first few pages of the Preface to the Phenomenology, yet Marx claims to be his student.

>>22622394
he does.
marx just grifted it, turned the idea on its head, and stole the credibility by saying "it's based on hegel".

same with modern commies. call them out and they say "go read theory!".
it's lies said with conviction, and with a backup plan to escape if they're refuted.

>>22622394
Marx isn't a "pure materialist" and often rails against vulgar materialists in many of his philosophical works. Even Lenin said that "dialectical idealists" are preferable to the most stupid materialism.

>>22622394
Marx's materialism is anthropological and not ontological, so he doesn't care about "matter" or ontology in the traditional sense and calls out ontological materialists as well

>>22622260
Do you mind elaborating? These don’t necessarily seem incompatible.

>>22622716
If we define left wing as simply referring to an grouping of ideologies that promote a broadly egalitarian social structure, then Hegel's work can still be harmonized with leftist thought.

However if we define left wing to refer to the strictly Marxist schools of socioeconomic theory, then the necessarily Idealist Hegel would be directly incompatible with Marx's Materialism, even in the form of the materialist dialectic

>>22622811
>then the necessarily Idealist Hegel would be directly incompatible with Marx's Materialism
NTA, however, haven't neo-marxists realized this error and turned their ideology back to the ideal, applying Hegel in a more classical sense to advance socialism today via cultural marxism?

>>22622875
I don't think Cultural Marxism is a real thing apart from an exonym people use to disparage those who cloak extremely cynical, self-serving actions in the guise of a quasi-Marxist egalitarianism. The kinds of ideas those sorts of people espouse are definitely idealist though.

>>22622895
>I don't think Cultural Marxism is a real thing
I disagree.
The Frankfurt school realized that your Average Joe in America was content with capitalism, that he would not be on board with a revolution because his life is comfortable. They realized the same with Germany -- How could they get the workers to revolt against the state when all the workers were FOR the state?
They had to change their means from classist revolution to a cultural one. These are thee people who are promoting DEI and "Social Emotional Learning" for companies and schools worldwide.
They literally just substituted the Bourgeoise with Western Culture because spiteful mutants can into that easier than opposing Capitalism itself or merit in general.

> Talks about Hegel
> starts to use American "left and right" lingo

You are retarded and def don't understand Hegel

>>22622439
Proof?

>>22622811
Even in material dialectic? I thought they’d at least converge there.

>>22622261

explain yourself

>>22622966
You must be American.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Hegelians

>>22622980

Ok so you are retarded. cool

>>22622988
Such an American-style retort.

>>22622237
why are you adding another dimension to this guy?

>>22622237
Nearly all prominent thinkers on the left are hegelians to some degree, it doesn't matter what is your cope thats the reality of it

>>22622949
>The Frankfurt school realized that your Average Joe in America was content with capitalism
Struth.

'It is completely false to say that the socialist reformers remained faithful to Marx on this point.
On the contrary, fatalism excludes all reforms, in that there would be a risk of mitigating the catastrophic aspect of the outcome. The logic of such an attitude leads to the approval of everything that tends to increase working-class poverty.
The worker must be given nothing so that one day can have everything'.

>>22623004
>Marx was against the existence of the State
>Hegel: 'The existence of the state is the presence of God upon the earth (Grundlinien der Philosophie des Rechts)'

>>22623016

the state Marx was talking about was the bourgoise state

also, you should understand the important changes Marx and Engels brought to dialectics to make dialectical materialism before you start to make dumb comparisons again

>>22623016
Marx thought the State was God and that once Eutopia is reached He would be actualized, not much different from Hegel if you think about it.

>>22623032
>he State was God and that once Eutopia
Marx open stated the opposite. Read "Socialism: Scientific and Utopian"

>>22623031
>the state Marx was talking about was the bourgoise state
LOL.

>A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6] and the state (or nation state).[7][8][9]

You're that retard who thinks Marx wanted an eternal, Statist, proletariate dictatorship.
Quite stupid of you.

>>22623042
>You're that retard who thinks Marx wanted an eternal, Statist, proletariate dictatorship.

Who are you talking to? try new arguments in the shower and maybe they will hit then

>>22622237
>>Portrayed as the final boss of left-wing Philosophy
I started with a degree then went on to Hegel. he is just stage 2

>>22623112
This seems to be very true

People here like to say they love philosophy but they are talking about the greeks, religion, and the enlightenment. This will be stage 1. A wide scope but very far behind in terms of development.

stage 2. German idealism radically changed everything. Kant was the seed and and Hegel was the Bud.

Stage 3, aka modern philsophy, is basically a collection of strains of thought all basing themselves on their particular critique of Hegel.

To understand any modern western philosophy, you will have to understand Hegel.

>>22623152
Very good explanation. If you had to pick, which philosopher is spearheading stage 3?

>>22623110
I refuted you so soundly, you ignored it.
You are a master dodger. A slimey weasal.

>>22622237
Leftism is just a modern flavor of christianity

>>22623164

I don't think I'm on that level yet to have a strong opinion.

Lot of talk about Lacan and Deleuze. They are dead but works don't die ig.
I flip flop on whether I like Zizek or not.
Professors seem to like Habermass.

However there, in my eyes, are not any current "game changers"

Hopefully I am wrong

>>22623172
You know a joke is funny when you have to explain it

>>22623188
'Socialism is only a degenerate form of Christianity'.

>>22623007
>>22622949
It's not really "cultural marxism", it's gay race communism. Das kapital that must be crushed is normal people, and the oppressed working classes are the various lumpenproles and freaks

>>22622949
From what text is that Horkheimer quote?

>>22622237
Stolen intellectual valor is as common as dirt.

>>22622271
based anon,
any other recommendations?

>>22623327
it might not have a source (fake? idk) , but it is analogous to the "long march through the institutions."

>Liberating tolerance, then, would mean intolerance against movements from the Right, and toleration of movements from the Left.
Herbert Marcuse

>>22622271
>stop trying to comprehend hegel
>who gives a fuck what political spectrum anything falls on, fuck it makes me angry, so unproductive and illogical
Sounds like you need to read Hegel.

'To him who looks upon the world rationally, the world in its turn presents a rational aspect. The relation is mutual'.
- Vorlesungen über die Philosophie der Weltgeschichte

>>22623394
'Socialism itself can hope to exist only for brief periods here and there, and then only through the exercise of the extremest terrorism. For this reason it is secretly preparing itself for rule through fear and is driving the word 'justice' into the heads of the half-educated masses like a nail so as to rob them of their reason... and to create in them a good conscience for the evil game they are to play'.

>>22623436
based, who said that?

>>22623449
Nietzsche.
So, like OP said, it was weird that Leftists claimed Nietzsche when he explicitly says his most disliked people on the planet are socialists.

>>22623434
> quote in English
> Titel ist auf Deutsch
Holy fucking midwit

>>22623500
t. American.

no

>>22622436
Always a convenient excuse

When I see affirmations that Hegel posited the Spirit as universally attainable, to every person, I understand why people claim Marx to be the best interpreter of Hegel, or perhaps that the delusions of communism were already present in Hegel. Leo Strauss wrote that Hegel envisaged a secularized Christianity, because as he wrote in his early theological writings, perhaps even following Kant, Christianity is the true religion, the only really moral religion and it is only real if it is reconciled with the world. Strauss says that secularization is Hegel's intention. This is a simple inference from Hegel's Geist and historical perspective.

>>22622436
Doesn’t the idea of superstructure imply a strict materialism or at least relativism?

>>22622285
>he isn't Larkinpilled
sad!

>>22622261
I agree. The entire system hinges on a triune god.
Atheist Hegelian’s (and Marxist rherefore) are literally retsrded and yet they managed to kill millions

>>22622293
Hegel moves his philosophy through the absolute which is a triune god (simplifying) and he arrives here taking a step last kant.
Marx uses this approach but uses material instead of the absolute. Problem is that dialectic relies on the absolute to work as it’s not really ‘logic’ in the traditional sense.

So I think Marx fails in terms of grounding his philosophy, and I do believe there is a movement to De-Hegelize the class struggle because it’s both academically nonsense (again, speaking from hegels point of view and a positivist view) and obviously communism has come and gone and wasn’t the final form of life. Where Hegel as a sort of union with god at this final goal and a sort of freedom first constitutional monarchy on earth

>>22622895
Cultural Marxism is absolutely real and has very real roots in Marxism and evolved from its failure to spread a global communist revolution.
Walter Benjamin and Antonio Gramski are few very famous and celebrated academics from the field.

Why did Marxism fail to spread out of Russia? The answer to gramski was that the religion and state and nation were all power structures used to distract the proletariat from the true reality of their situation.

This idea if power vs oppressed is the current idea that dominates left wing thinning. It’s the backbone of anti racism and lgbt and ‘systemic racism’.

Every thing that was built by whites is there to distract the oppressed from the reality of their oppression.

This is the idea in a nutshell. There are no more workers in the west but there are fags and minorities who now seek a ‘revolution’ to over throw their oppressors.

I assure it’s real and infected most of the left wing these days to some extent even if they don’t realize the intellectual basis and evolution of the idea.

Marxism minus workers and focused only on power vs oppressed.

>>22622994
You must be South American

>>22622979
>"Finally, on the view [Atheism] takes of the action of [Christians], the rejection of enjoyment and possessions is looked upon as wrong and purposeless. As to the wrong thus done, [Atheists] preserves the harmony of the [Christian] attitude in this that [Christianity] acknowledges the actual reality of possessing property, keeping hold of it, and enjoying it."

>>22623474
>his most disliked people on the planet are socialists.
kek. he also said jews are the originators of slave morality he and opposed the emancipation of women

>>22624331
Oh, and he was anti-race mixing

>>22623946

>>22622237
Hegel on Spinoza
>Um... he's a Jew and Oriental, thus, his philosophy falls short of the true concept of God which forms the content of the Christian religious consciousness.

Heed it well, ye Pantheists!

>>22623394
Seems like Marcuse is simply making a friend-enemy distinction in that quote, nothing particularly egregious. If the position of right and left were reversed in that text, I'm sure this board would be creaming themselves over him

>>22624642
Ye except this is an “academic” basically just admitting he is working with an agenda. Why would anyone take anything he says about politics seriously ever again after reading that?

>>22624331
>>22624361
None of those are factually incorrect views to hold.

>>22623931
>and obviously communism has come and gone and wasn’t the final form of life.
The problem is, this isn't what Marxists believe. In a way, it's true, what they believe, but I don't say this to their advantage.
'True communism' is the finality of history just as much as the Christian Apocalypse is the finality of life. Something that IS the end per se.

Although, not that I have read too much into this aspect, but Marx said the Communism is the beginning of modern history and our current history will be regarded as pre-history. This in the assumption that there will be history after Communism, but there can't be because history ends at the end of strife and striving.
Communism is, per se, like the Christian Apocalypse: a prophecy of eternal salvation (or damnation, depending on if you followed the books or not).

''In 1917 the revolutionary world really believed that it had arrived before those gates. Rosa Luxemburg's prophecy was being realised...
The Spartakus movement believed that it had achieved the definitive revolution because, according to Marx himself, the latter would come to pass after the Russian revolution had been consumated by a Western revolution. After the revolution of 1917, a Soviet Germany would, in fact, have opened the gates of Heaven [communism].
But the Spartakus movement is crushed, the French general strike of 1920 fails, the Italian revolutionary movement is strangled...
...Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg are assassinated...
The Russian revolution remains isolated, living according to its own system, still far from the celestial gates, with an apocalypse to organise'.

>>22624642
The right don't preach tolerance. So there is no hypocrisy in that aspect.
Marxists preach freedom and tolerance, but stipulate that 'temporary' proletariate dictatorship and extreme intolerance would be required. How long 'temporarily'? Only the Lord knows. But then, there is no Lord for them.

>>22622994
Sneed

>>22623543
You’re on thin ice, pal

>>22623588
I've heard some not-so-great things about this work, namely that Magee relies on shoddy scholarship and outright misquotations to back up his point. Can anyone verify?

>>22622237
hegel was retarded. left nietzscheanism is where its at.

>>22627549
The Young Evolans will establish the traditional communist utopia

>>22623449
It’s funny how Slavaboos make apologetics for fag enablers as long as they say “America bad”