/lit/ - Literature

No one that is an academic philosopher take this guys seriously, only outside academy pseudo try to make him bigger

>>22605715
let the seething begin...

>>22605715
>ESL
>retarded post
Like peanut butter and jelly.

>>22605724
>>22605762
No matter how many Hegel threads you create, nobody cares, literally nobody with a real professional degree in philosophy waste much time on him.

>>22605770

>>22605700
Is Hegel the real father of Marxism? Would he approve of how Marxoids are using his dialectic?

>>22605770
oh what's he reading there?

>>22605782
No, only leftoid would think off that, is pure left cope.

>>22605782
>Is Hegel the real father of Marxism?
no that would be Marx

>>22605790
Marx employed and attempted to advance the dialectic, did he not?

>>22605789
>pure left cope
wdym? leftists use the dialectic to this day, do rightists?

>>22605798
nope because Marx divorced the dialectic from idealism and God.

>the opposition of idealistic and realistic philosophy has no significance. A philosophy which ascribed veritable, ultimate, absolute being to finite existence as such, would not deserve the name of philosophy
-Hegel

>Absolute idealism, however, though it is far in advance of vulgar realism, is by no means merely restricted to philosophy. It lies at the root of all religion; for religion too believes the actual world we see, the sum total of existence, to be created and governed by God.
-Hegel

>>22605770
that actually makes him more based, since being a "professional philosopher" makes you a loser who provides no real utility to anyone in the entire world.
>tldr Kys

>>22605820
>nope because Marx divorced the dialectic from idealism and God.
ok but didn't Leninists and Maoists and neo-marxists return it back to idealism as a critique of Marx?

>>22605802
>wdym?
anon, you haven't read the Philosophy of RIGHT, now have you? I mean it doesn't get more explicit than that.

>>22605825
absolute retard. Hegel WAS a professional philosopher. YOU KYS. absolute embarassment that you are

>>22605829
>Leninists and Maoists and neo-marxists
>idealists
anon do you know what idealism means in philosophy?

>>22605834
I have not, but i suppose I will.
i'm not saying hegel was a leftist, but leftists are evidently using the hegelian dialectic in current year

>>22605849
>leftists are evidently using the hegelian dialectic in current year
>evidently
lol you don't "use" the dialectic. leftists are retards.

>>22605840
No Hegel was a Lutheran minister. Fucking retard. Even if that was his profession, that was a way different time when degrees weren't a commodity that was bought and sold.

>>22605848
yes, without looking it up, its the opposite of materialism, that true nature is found in the mind, not the external world.

>>22605867
>>22605848
im saying neo-marxists wanted to move away from marxists dialectical materialsm back to a more hegelian dialectic to advance marxism further than marx could

>>22605864
>Hegel was a Lutheran minister
Imagine being this fucking stupid. He was literally Professor of PHILOSOPHY at the University of Berlin you irredeemable dummkopf.

>>22605872
>hegelian dialectic
ok but without God? with out idealism? There is NO dialectic without God or idealism. The dialectic IS the growth and development of the SPIRITUAL.

>>22605700
>Le illiterate charlatan
lmfao

>>22606174
schopenhauer and hegel have more in common than you think brainley. read Eduard von Hartmann.

He was entirely unironically probably the smartest person to ever live. No wonder that his absolute (get it?) mogging of the entire history of philosophy would produce some discontent in the more narcissistic sections of philo

>>22605700
What policy did he defend? Was he a democratcuck?

>>22606467
Absolute Monarchy

>>22605700
lol that man seethed against haller (pbuh)

https://hallertime.substack.com/p/hegel-v-haller

>>22605777
>is a Hegelian
>atheist

Guy is a full blown retard and the drooling should have gave it away

>>22605798
Marx replaced the absolite ideal with material. But the problem is Hegel is a complete system and got can’t just remove part of it.

>>22606518
the man asked for a degree holder who reads hegel. i delivered.

>>22606520
>Hegel is a complete system and you can’t just remove part of it.
this

>>22606313
Man that’s a name that rarely gets mentioned here

>>22606478
Absolutely based then

>>22605829
Idealism holds that the world we see and experience is not real and what is real are the words and ideas in our mind.

Opposed to empericism which says that the things we see are the only real things.

Kant believed in transcendental idealism; the sensory data was collected by our mind and organized into concepts but we could never know how things really are because we never interact with objected how they really are.

Hegel believed in absolute idealism; the thought concepts must have some connection with reality and thinking is then being. This logically expands to a broader system where everything is connected around the absolute, which results in an anselm esque God.

Marx took Hegel and replaced the absolute with material.

He doesn’t realize that you can’t do this without unraveling the entire system. But none the less history and human thought then connect only to the material world which is real and history moves through material and like Hegel absolute it evolved and finally communism

Marx relies on materialism totally. No god, no rational ideas or it doesn’t work

>>22606521
I guess. Hegel is massively influential idk how this is even up for Debate

>>22606478
Wrong. Also he wasn't a germanboo either

>>22606580

We still must respect truth, despite the fact that a foolish man like Marx is saying it.

The truth is that absolute materialism is the way of this reality, no matter if we like it or not. But I still say we defy. On top of that material, is a foundation that we must build upon. And what we build shall be our ideals.

Idealistic Materialism.

>>22606611
>The one and only absolute judge, which makes itself authoritative against the particular and at all times, is the absolute mind which manifests itself in the history of the world as the universal and as the genus there operative.
seethe more faggot. the hegelian state is true theocracy: the absolute idea as absolute monarch-- God as king.

>>22606174
I think he enjoyed being pessimistic.

>>22606644
Dumbass. Hegel is supportive of a constitutional monarchy because you get the best of both worlds from it. His practical politics were very much democratic and he supported the French Revolution wholeheartedly. The element of monarchy in his ideal political world is entirely formal and the monarch is nothing more than a formal embodiment of the state such that the manifold contradictions of politics can become embodied by him. The monarch serves as the point in which the fabric of the state confronts itself in its utmost contingency and therefore remains cognizant of its own limitations in opposition to a pure democracy which easily gets entranced by its own propaganda. It’s like how you can only know that you’re moving if you have something still to judge against. The monarch is this still point which the democratic process (the effective process of Hegel’s politics) has to judge itself against so that it doesn’t lose track of itself in its wanderings. The monarch is quite literally nothing but a rubber stamp for democracy in Hegel’s ideal world.

>>22606677
>The monarch is quite literally nothing but a rubber stamp for democracy in Hegel’s ideal world.
nope there is no democracy in the Hegelian state but nice try pseud. Let me guess your one of those revisionary "hegelians" who doesn't actually believe in idealism or God aren't you?

>>22606708
> Mind is actual only as that which it knows itself to be, and in the state, as the mind of a nation, is both the law permeating all relationships within the state and also at the same time the manners and consciousness of its citizens. It follows, therefore, that the constitution of any given nation depends in general on the character and development of its self-consciousness. In its self-consciousness its subjective freedom is rooted and so, therefore, is the actuality of its constitution.
Notice how he says here that the state is nothing more than the conduct of the citizens. Where’s his mention of this god-king monarch?

>>22606580
>Marx relies on materialism totally. No god, no rational ideas or it doesn’t work
>>22605895
>ok but without God?

But didn't they attempt to replace God with the synthesis of Man and State 'becoming' God.
Once the 'ideal' world of communist eutopia is achieved, they think, God has actualized in the form of the perfect State.
>man is given an idea, man then uses that idea to create a state, the state gives man a new idea, man creates a better state, and so on until "History" is ended because Earth is now Heaven.
Would Hegel be spinning in his grave at this point?

Yes, Marx is a retard and tried to "turn hegel on his head" by flipping the dialectic from idealism to materialism, but I think neo-marxists realized the error marx had, and are now applying Hegel in a classical sense to advance socialism.

>>22605700
Findlay & Miller's renderings into English are unnecessarily wedded to paraphrastic duplication of German syntax, filtering many for its crimes against prose alone needlessly.

>>22605782
>the real father of Marxism
Persian coomers that got btfo shortly before Mongol btfo-ing, the red & yellow heraldry included.

>>22606776
>But didn't they attempt to replace God with the synthesis of Man and State 'becoming' God.
Um, no.

>>22605770
Is that why he's in all the philosophical courses in most universities over the globe?

>>22605770
didn't professor gregory b sadler of philosophy spend 10 years diving into every nook and cranny of the phenomenology of spirit?

>>22605700
Because modernity hasn't been completed yet. >>22605715
He is literally the most academic philosopher. There is a reason why you can't easily make a meme personality out of him like with Schoppy. You actually need to read him.

>>22607602
Hegel was not a modernist.

>>22607602
Tldr , left can't meme

>>22607634
>>22607615
Modernism is the end-game of the literature of modernity. Never did I mention modernism.

>>22605700
By speaking enigmatically in a world where autism exists.

>>22606776
You're talking to retards who have never read a book. Of course Marxism is inverted Hegelianism. The entire Young Hegelian project attests to this.

>>22606677
>>22606734
So he was a democrat? One more reason not to read him

>>22607692
Congrats, this might be the dumbest fucking post I've seen today.

>>22607706
Why should I read or even consider what a democrat has to say? Their lives are worth less than that of an insect/animal

>>22605700
>being a consummate grifter and would-be wizard
>breathing life back into gnosticism and allowing mysticism and anti-empiricism to persevere into the current age
>effectively opening the doors for movements that slaughtered millions cause who gives a fuck about meat prisons, ammirite?
Take your pick

>>22607796
You've never read Hegel and only know him through memes and it shows.
>>22607775
Shut the fuck up. A German Idealist who wrote in the early 19th century has fucking nothing to do with an American political party that didn't even exist in his time. I'm surprised you even know how to make posts on this site considering how fucking dumb you are.

>>22607775
He was a Prussian monarchist(a compromise on his part, but he was sincere it was the most pragmatical approach to politics in the eternal scale).

>>22607867
His contemporaries recognized his revolutionary potential though. Friedrich Wilhelm IV. specifically asked Schelling to help expunge Hegelianism from Prussian educational institutions.

>>22607650
That'll do'er.

>>22607852
>NOOOO YOU CAN'T USE NEW TERMS ON THINGS THAT EXISTED BEFORE THE TERM!
People always do this, deal with it

>>22606734
>Where’s his mention of this god-king monarch?
the whole paragraph is smoothbrain. it is the universal mind that is the God-king who determines the law and which all individual consciousness must conform to in order for the state to function. You don't see it because you obviously haven't studied his Logic which grounds his political theory.

>>22605700
This guy is beyond me, even his wiki page is too complicated for me to understand.

>>22608163
It's very simple, he's describing the movement of the becoming of the absolute through the dialectic of the world-historical development of philosophy and through the development of consciousness perceiving and understanding itself.

>>22608009
Having laws imposed on you from a monarch seems like a pretty ass backwards way to go about the process of self-consciousness especially when for Hegel the law itself emerges out of reason which takes place as a dialogue and not a dictation. Even if the god-king existed his decrees would be implicitly determined as a dialogue with his subjects thereby invalidating his authority.

>>22609499
>Even if the god-king existed his decrees would be implicitly determined as a dialogue with his subjects thereby invalidating his authority.
pseud that you are stop telling us so much about how you havn't read Hegel's Logic and can't grasp the concept of UNIVERSAL MIND as the God-king when all the particular minds have attained to the higher standpoint of the universal mind and necessarily know and live by the law of the universal mind because they now know themselves TO BE the universal mind.

>>22609518
That kind of stuff is the reason transhumanists and other weirdos appropriate him. I think I'm oppoed to the entire history of becoming.

>>22609530
it's literally the underlying teleology of every religion. literally that's what the whole point of religion is. hegel just tells it to us straight. the problem is lefties ignore the metaphysics and then completely miss the point and try to achieve the perfect state without the universal mind which is impossible because without attaining to the higher standpoint of the universal mind, human (singular minds) will always be selfish perverted little shits.

b

>>22609518
Once again you contradict yourself, if the citizens were themselves incarnations of the universal mind then the god-king which is the symbolic embodiment of the universal mind is merely a stand-in for the regular citizen

>>22605715
>no one that is an academic philosopher takes this guy seriously
>Pinkard, McGowan, Pippin, Findlay, Kaufman, Zizek, Taylor, to name a few.
>1000+ philpapers citations

>>22609743
>the god-king which is the symbolic embodiment of the universal mind
no retard he IS the universal mind. Do the words KINGDOM OF GOD ring a bell? God, the universal mind is the king, he rules, in the hegelian state. The physical king is princeps, first among equals, in the necessary hierarchical structure of the state but not God himself, who is the real, actual, and effective king who directs the physical king to rule as the organic head and the physical subjects to submit willingly and rationally as the organic body of the state.

>>22609771
Universality is a form/method of rationality for Hegel. Idk what youtube video you got these ideas from but you’re dead wrong pal. Tell me, how could universality only be embodied in the mind of one man and still retain its universal character? Submission is not the same as understanding. Without universality being known as what it is it would never have concrete existence but would remain an abstraction and hence void from reason which would remain in particularity and never be able to attain comprehension of anything in the first place. Slow down on the meth pal, go jerk off a bit and come back once the edge wears off

>>22609807
>how could universality only be embodied in the mind of one man and still retain its universal character?
it's not readlet read my post again.
>Submission is not the same as understanding.
no shit but neither does it contradict understanding. and in the hegelian state the king's subjects (as having realized themselves as universal mind) willingly and through their own reason and understanding (as I mentioned above but apparently you can't read) submits to the the rule of law (which is also the universal mind) as dictated and enforced by the king (which is also universal mind).

>>22609807
>Slow down on the meth pal, go jerk off a bit and come back once the edge wears off
you don't believe in God or idealism do you?

>Common sense cannot understand speculation; and what is more, it must come to hate speculation when it has experience of it; and, unless it is in the state of perfect indifference that security confers, it is bound to detest and persecute it.
-Hegel

>>22605829
>very large goalpost shift

>>22609829
But universality has to be KNOWN as universality in order for it to mean anything. If universality is the diction of one man then it can only be known as particularity given that the ‘citizens submit’ (your phrasing) to universality instead of being active participants in it. Next you’ll say, “Yes! They rationally submit of their own will” but if they do not understand universality but merely submit, even if it is rational, then it is only known by one man, the dictator, and hence not universal. If the citizens do not intellectually participate in universality then it is not universal. It does not matter if they submit to the king’s orders as universality requires the intellect to know it and not merely follow it.
>>22609836
I am literally a Hegelian and a Christian. You faggots are literally the retarded version of me.

>>22609903
>if they do not understand universality but merely submit,
absolute shithead actually read my post damn it. The citizens HAVE achieved the standpoint of universality that is why they submit. The citizens (as you call them) know themselves to be the universal mind and submit because of their understanding of this which they have arrived at through reason. they are not submitting to the physical embodied king they are submitting to the law and the hierarchy which enforces that law which is the will of God. They are submitting to GOD, the universal mind, who is the real king. But, they submit willingly because they also are GOD and know themselves as God. For being a supposed Hegelian you can't seem to grasp the concept of what might today be called a hive mind.

>>22609916
You keep missing my point. If the citizens achieve universality then they are not merely submitting to the king but taking an active part in the political process itself by contributing to the universality of the state in their particularity. Meaning: it’s a democracy. You have a flawed view of the heart of Hegel’s dialectics and keep maintaining God as a purely positive figure which the state measures itself against. For Hegel God Himself is ontologically flawed by contradiction (his understanding of the trinity) and as such all of reality is flawed because of it. Yes, God is the truest head of the state but the state is flawed because of it. The King himself is the physical embodiment of that flaw (particularity) which always threatens to evade universalization and destroy it thereby.

Please stop insulting each other with such vulgarity.

>>22609950
>Meaning: it’s a democracy.
no it's not retard because the individual minds do not rule, neither the king nor the subjects; the universal mind does.
>>22609950
>The King himself is the physical embodiment of that flaw (particularity) which always threatens to evade universalization and destroy it thereby.
not if he is no longer an individual mind but literally the universal mind itself. In the Hegelian state ALL individual minds have been sublated and the universal mind is now conscious of itself. Again you do not understand the simple concept of a hivemind. The king and his subjects are no longer conscious AS distinct individuals (king and subjects) they are now conscious as a new unified consciousnes, the universal mind. Universal literally means many turned into one. Each individual is as conscious of himself as a cell in a human body, which means he is not conscious of himself at all, since he has sublated individuality and therefore relinquished self-consciousness and become absorbed into the higher consciousness of the state.

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>>22610038

You're all wrong.

>>22610049
kys

>>22609950
>"Hive mind" tends to describe a group mind in which the linked individuals have no identity or free will and are possessed or mind-controlled as extensions of the hive mind. It is frequently associated with the concept of an entity that spreads among individuals and suppresses or subsumes their consciousness in the process of integrating them into its own collective consciousness. The concept of the group or hive mind is an intelligent version of real-life superorganisms such as a beehive or an ant colony.

b

>>22610038
So you believe it would be a literal hivemind with people reading each other’s thoughts? You think this is realistically possible?

>>22610185
yes

>>22610185
>>a newcomer to philosophy [...] forgets that in this science there occur determinations quite different from those in ordinary consciousness and in so-called ordinary common sense-which is not exactly sound understanding but an understanding educated up to abstractions and to a belief, or rather a superstitious belief, in abstractions.
-Hegel

>>22610188
>>22610211
Holy. Shit.

>>22610211
>my asshole is ripe

-Hegel

>>22610332
Would

>>22610211

Based.

>>22610049
this website should auto block any post that replies to more than 5 other posts.

Hegelians get filtered hard by this pic.

>>22608163
He’s the final boss and you have to start with Descartes at least

>>22610880
Your silence tells me more than your words ever could, hegelians

>>22610931
>>22610880
Uhh H-Hegel bros?

>>22612128
They got wheeled by duality

A complex system of interdependencies is to much for their tiny brains

>>22610880
Music is time without space or extension

>>22606467
>What policy did he defend?
No one really knows. That's the neat part.

>>22605700
so true wagnersister

>>22612221
>Music is time
true
>without space
if it can't be written down yes

I just wanna live in a hut in the woods

>>22610231
I don't get it

b

u

p

MORE HEGEL TALK NOW

>>22613209
already retroactively refuted by Guenon (pbuh), succession is a demonic dialectical fabrication and thus there can be no more Hegel talk for the highest level of understanding

>>22613257
>Guenon
what happened to guenonfag?

>>22613209
What’s the big idea?

>>22610880
Wtf does "the subject contains objects" mean?

>>22613381
Essentially, the Phenomenology is a full exploration of what it really means to have an objective, time-detached perspective as a subjective, timely being, and the state of consciousness one must have to do so. This forms the basis for the rest of Hegel's system, the Logic.

like damn he in he mood

>>22605700
He killed billions...

>>22613428
No object(s) without a subject. Object and subject imply each other.

>>22605715
>No one that is an academic philosopher take this guys seriously, only outside academy pseudo try to make him bigger

The only endorsement I needed. Buying all his works in hardcover rn..

>>22613985
Yeah, but the image says that the object does not contain the subject. Somehow is an asymmetrical relationship and the object does not need the subject

>>22614494
>the object
What object? Pic is about objects in general.

>>22614500
The concept object. That thing that is common to all objects

>>22614521
>The concept object
In English?

>>22613665
No, retards filtered by him killed each others

>>22613270
no idea honestly, maybe they achieved moksha through a shotgun inserted through the mouth?

start with the propadeutic