/lit/ - Literature

>>22595744
The most important part of the dialogue is the conversation about Equality and pre-perception Forms which we use to interpret the world. Won’t say more than this becasue platonism is meant to be an esoteric doctrine which is why he hid the good stuff in these meandering dialogues with many bad arguments.

>>22595744
>platonism is meant to be an esoteric doctrine
Can you say more about this?

>>22596415
he made it up.

>>22596415
Plato’s real thoughts are intentionally hidden which is why he uses fictional characters to relay opposing ideas. From these discussions you are intended to piece together what he thinks from reaching conclusions on your own instead of dogmatically citing Socrates.

>>22596546
Doesn’t this just allow anyone to interpret it however they want?

>>22596546
I understand the literary value but honestly this sounds incredibly tedious and boring to me so I will in future read only secondary literature on plato from the people who have autistically devoted their lives to reading and analyzing Plato

>>22595744
Also reading this these days. I have to say this is one of the weakest dialogues for sure.

>>22595749
Dialogues are not meant to be esoteric, if that's not obvious to you then IQ<=90 (although Laws and Republic are extremely esoteric in places)
>>22596546
The fact that the dialogues end in aporia and don't reveal the author's beliefs does not mean that the dialogues teach hidden things. It just means that the subject matter is so transcendent that Plato's actual beliefs transcend immanent conclusions, and can only be described by writing neither one immanent conclusion nor its opposite (i.e. ending in aporia). Also, the characters aren't fictional.
>>22596415
Platonism has never been a doctrine and it's always been a school. The school's subject matter has always been public, but people have also always provided private and mystical interpretations of the subject. Over time, these private interpretations become occult mystical societies, but the public subject matter is unperturbed.

>>22595744
Psyche=! Common conception of the soul

>>22597278
Lol you don’t know shit, Plato concealed his teachings from the masses because he knew they’re too retarded. Which is why he said you must sell them a noble lie. Plato is like Jesus because he sacrificed his reputation with the normies by including a lot of terrible arguments in his books to filter them out, meanwhile dropping absolute golden nuggets inbetween.>>22597278

>>22597311
>like Jesus
>hiding stuff
>le terrible arguments
thought it couldn't get worse, it did.
next you'll say the gnostic gospels are "like actually true broo"

>>22596633
Well yeah, obviously. That doesn’t mean Plato believed nothing and all opinions are valid.

>>22597311
One of the spurious dialogues or it might’ve been one of the Letters, Plato said writing down your ideas is bad because your enemies could get access to information/ thought.

>>22597311
>Plato is like Jesus
holy reddit

>>22596633
Interpretations of pointers at the truth can only contain elements of the truth anyway. If I tell you an interpretation of an actual truth you should assume I don't have it 100% correct because I have communicated it to you. Im either missing something or am getting some aspect wrong. That is the nature of truths that can only be understood through dialectic or initiation. If I tell you "this is the dow" it definitely isn't the dow. That being said, interpretations can be useful, beautiful, and inspiring so why not also interpret.

>>22597559
>initiation
>literal example of truth being communicated
>somehow clearer than just communicating

>>22597335
So you can discern what some guy from 2000 years ago, who saw the world completely differently, was secretly communicating in coded ways?

>>22597606
Initiation is not communicating a truth, it is leasing someone to a complete experience of a truth because there is an aspect of truth that is lost outside of experience that can not be recaptured in communication. Same goes for dialectic, whose goal is to lead you to the experience of coming to a mental truth yourself in stead so that you get that otherwise unattainable experiential dimension.

>>22598045
*leasing should be leading.

>>22598029
The idea is to get you to independently reach the same conclusions he got. If he wanted an essay format he’s have written essays.

>>22595744
It doesn't matter if it's "right" or "wrong"

>>22596546
>Plato’s real thoughts are intentionally hidden

I'm pretty sure he is just really pissed at Athens for killing Socrates, so he wrote whole books on it just to shit on the city.