/lit/ - Literature

He just thinks Hitler didn’t know about it and the number was 3 million Jews instead of 6. Seems like a rather tepid viewpoint. Is this the best pro-Axis revisionism has to offer?

>>22531241
>>22531229
Well, all of the shit he had to endure shows he is largely correct.
Why severely punish those asking questions out of honesty unless you have something to hide?

>>22531270
You are so full of shit. lmao just asking questions

>>22531229
he starts a a summeruser

>>22531270
There are many reasons for censorship:
1. You don’t want falsehoods to be disseminated to the gullible masses
2. You think that particular falsehoods are especially dangerous because of their ability to stir up the masses to violence or their destructive potential (eg. climate change denialism, if it becomes widespread, could lead to planetary disaster assuming the climate change narrative is actually true).
3. You just want to punish the purveyors of odious lies because you love the truth so much
Etc
Being persecuted doesn’t make you right. It makes you sexy, cool, suave in the eyes of people who are drawn to rebellious characters. But it doesn’t make you right. That has to be decided on a purely intellectual basis.

>>22531279
>>22531279
>an event, so true, you have to ja-il people for questioning it
you are no different from middleage executioner

>>22531229
He's not an actual revisionist. He's never seriously studied the topic (by his own admission).
He wrote a book on Hitler, and based on what he learned whilst writing it he does not believe Hitler had any knowledge of any genocide. He also does not beleive in any large-scale gassings in Auschwhitz. He pushes what is called Holocaust-lite.
If you want real revisionist work I'll help you out.
Vertify pic related assertions for yourself. Here are some resources
https://forum.codoh.com/
https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1
holocaust.claims
Here is a good starter, a 4 hour video that dives into the Reinhardt camps -- the site of allegedly ~1.5 million deaths -- and dissects authorative books on the topic.
https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=1001
And here is a mainstream doc. just to sanity check that there is something sketchy. They go to Treblinka to try to find evidence of gas chambers (they also looked for bodies), and best they could find was a prehistoric shark tooth, some combs, a tooth filling, and a tile of polish pottery with a mullet star falsley identified as a Star of David.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfEPvGnhgTg
The books are dense and information heavy, as a primer I might recommend
https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=32
The more technical and info-heavy books are those by writers such as Mattongo and Rudolf.

>>22531241
Why would you want them to deny the whole thing? They're after the truth. To me it's even more interesting that he thinks there were mass killings, because it shows he's not trying to be on a "side," he's just trying to say what he really thinks after decades of familiarity with the sources.

I've always suspected that the real story is that it happened but was mostly handled within the "polycratic" structure of the Nazi regime, with Himmler being an unsurprising culprit, and that the numbers are way off the official ones. I think the "Holocaust industry" has never given a fuck about the numbers, they just picked a reasonable middle ground total after it stabilized from Soviet and American propaganda and then made adherence to that number a loyalty oath. Didn't Raul Hilberg say it's around 5 million and get in trouble for that?

To me what is more interesting about the event is the fetishism of it. Why would it even be so remarkable if the Nazis tried to kill a few million people? The Turks did that and nobody really cared the way we care about the Jews. The Soviets did it on an even large scale to the Poles and many others. The Chinese did it to eachother. What is magical about the mass killing of Jews specifically? If you pull at this gradually and sensitively, you start to reveal deep structures in the European subconscious, and you find that the Jewish neurotic self-hatred/self-worship complex has actually grafted itself onto the European one symbiotically at a shockingly deep level. We were "primed" to believe something like the Holocaust narrative, primed to worship the Jews and see the death of a single Jew as more important than a hundred non-Jews (the way Jews themselves see it), well before the events of WW2.

Happy Yom Kippur to my Jewish friends. May you all leave Europe and America soon.

>>22531345
Also recently this opened and might also be of use
https://holocaustencyclopedia.com/

>>22531229
Any good historian should know by now that if you give humans the benefit of the doubt, chances are they will prove you wrong

>>22531315
Honestly questioning the magnitude of a supposed genocide shouldn't land you in trouble unless it's about "muh oppressed Jews". None of the reasons you've listed are relevant to this.
From everything I've read, I think the Circassian genocide had a larger death toll, but you don't see people being jailed for questioning it in a "free society".

>>22531353
>To me what is more interesting about the event is the fetishism of it. Why would it even be so remarkable if the Nazis tried to kill a few million people?
Profoundly connected to the dominance of zionist actors in the US mass media and government. If it had been the Turks, then the Armenian genocide would have been the worst crime ever. On top of which it's made them nearly untouchable over the past seven decades no matter what atrocities they commit on their own.

>>22531437
It is amazing how the ultimate victims and model "persecuted people" in all media also happens to be the people most likely to run a bulldozer over a Palestinian kid's head while writing about how in their version of heaven, non-thems will literally eat their shit and grovel at their feet

I love Jews but they're really easy to hate sometimes. I still remember when I learned about "shiksas are for practice," I was running at 2.5 - 4.5 Hitlers the rest of that month.

>>22531443
It makes you wonder if there's truth to antisemitic "conspiracies" like Jews poisoning European wells. In fact, there are documented instances they do this to Palestinians.
Anyways, the Ashkenazi aren't even ancestrally Jews.

>>22531279
The leftist infuriation when people say "Just asking questions" is really something. I have no doubt that they wish they could use the full power of the state to punish wrongthink at this point. Grim times.

>>22531353
I don’t want them to deny the whole thing. I want the truth. It’s good that Irving is not so ideological as to deny the whole thing. But doesn’t this put a nail in the coffin of Holocaust denialism? That Irving, the most credible revisionist, whose political and personal views clearly have him biased in favour of the Nazis, nevertheless could not find it within himself as a historian to deny the Holocaust.

With respect to what you said: I don’t think it has anything to do with Europeans’ particular love of Jews. It just has to do with post-war propaganda needing to demonise the Nazis as much as possible, from both the communist and the liberal sides. That’s why it’s ok for people to worship Churchill who starved loads of Indians to death for example but not Hitler. It’s not that we love Indians more than Jews, it’s that Churchill won the war and Hitler lost.

>>22531432
I don’t disagree, but that guy was claiming that the only reason you would ever censor anybody is because they have the truth, which is patently false. I would censor anybody spreading lies if I saw those lies as dangerous. And from the perspective of the postwar liberals/communists running these countries, denying the Holocaust is dangerous because they used it as a propaganda weapon against fascism.

>>22531498
As I told you, Irving is not a revisionist. He took an interest in the second world war and in some aspects of the third reich. He has NEVER published a SINGLE revisionist work.
I know the movie "Denial" painted him as some figurehead of revisionism, but it's not true.

>>22531516
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/David_Irving

>>22531521
>rational wiki
anon...I...

>>22531345
>>22531395
So why does he say there are documents proving that there were infrequent gassing at Auschwitz and through his study of Himmler claims that without a shadow of a doubt some of the camps were used as death camps (although he insists not Auschwitz primarily)? Also he refers to a speech of Himmler’s which you can listen to on YouTube right not (speech at Poznan) where Himmler explicitly states that they’re exterminating the Jews.

>>22531511
You're taking what I am saying out of context.
In a society that constantly harps about freedom of intellectual inquiry, those who go along certain avenues, even out of honesty, are severely punished. This is hypocritical, and it can indicate a certain area of truth they are trying to hide.
I can see your point of David Irving was screaming, "We need to genocide the Jews right now," but that's not what he was doing.
Anyways, the Holocaust is obviously a massive exaggeration. It's the founding myth for the post-WWII order, which will soon collapse and be restructured for the "Great Reset".

>>22531448
>he Ashkenazi aren't even ancestrally Jews
then what are they?

If you think that such an emotionally charged event wouldn't be exaggerated to all get out for manipulative purposes, you have lived with your head buried in the sand. How come everybody says history is written by the victors but never thinks about what that means in this case

>>22531526
If you can pull up these alleged documents, I would be happy to address them.
The Posen Speeches says nothing of death camps, or gas chambers, and are riddled with inconsistencies. I will point one out
>‘The Jewish people will be exterminated,’ says every Party comrade, ‘that is quite clear, it is in our program: deactivation [Ausschaltung] of the Jews, extermination; that is what we are doing
The NSDAP NEVER said anything about mass killing of jews (they did however speak of deportation).
>This speech was not only recorded, but at war’s end, the Allies found a stash of shellac disks with that speech. In other words: Himmler had seen to it that his “secret” speech – containing stuff no one should ever talk about – was multiplied
I really would rather you first watch/read this>>22531345, as I am not too excited about having to go over this. The claim here is quite remarkable in scope—the mass genocide of 6 million jews (3 mill in camps) via delousing agents and diesel engine exhaust in rooms that doubled as showers/hair-salons (in the case of Treblinka, please just watch that 4 hour documentary cited, or at least the mainstream one). Where are the bodies? Gone because they destroyed them all in open air fires (after having already burried them btw). Communications (because the UK had access to German communication following the breaking of their codes)? None, and also they spoke in code words (from Wansee, which was also in code words). Diaries? Uh, none etc. etc. IN essense think of the discrepancy between the alleged crime and the evidence you're presenting.

>>22531552
Khazars from the Khazar empire. Turkic peoples who converted to Judaism in order to be neutral in the Muslim/Christian rivalries and do business with both.

>>22531525
Yeah, that's a sad post

>>22531432
>Circassian genocide
The Circassian genocide had 1,500,000 deaths and even if Irving is correct the Holocaust had twice that count. But to answer your question, if the number of people that died during the Circassian genocide or the parties responsible was politically because there were people in Russia who believed Circassians are interlopers using their genocide as a cudgel to control Russians then denial of the Circassian genocide would be a serious issue. In that case the denial of the Circassian genocide may be severely frowned upon by some.

>>22531552
Some people say they are Khazars, a Turkic group in what is now Russia that weirdly converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages, and the idea is that after the kingdom collapsed these Khazars became itinerant and genetically took over European Jewish populations I think. If you want the older writings on it, read the first chapter of Solzhenitsyn's 200 Years Together and Koestler's Thirteenth Tribe, but these days it's FIERCELY, obsessively disputed by Jews and Israelis and of course being Jews they use their influence to smother any mention of it in the mainstream press. Any time something comes out on it there are parallel press campaigns attacking and denouncing it. From what I understand it's a lot more ambiguous and possible than the heavily curated "mainstream" lets on. There was even a controversy in Israel with one Israeli scholar defending it, and if you read between the lines of the controversy, it was very Jewy how they Jewed that Jew, tons of typical litigious weasel words.

On a milder level, a lot of people don't consider secular European Jews since they increasingly became degenerate secular Talmudists over the centuries. By the 19th century it gets really really bad though as Jewish influence over finance and media becomes astronomical, in the 18th century it was still not too bad. A lot of this has to do with mass population movements of, once again, Russian Jews due to the Russian expulsions. Most of the troubles you hear about in Eastern Europe are due to massive influxes of Jews from Russia who move in and immediately start dominating local trades and stuff. Solzhenitsyn is good on this again. It's inarguable that they really did do things like dominating local trades and especially getting monopolies on alcohol production. They were often kind of like inverted gypsies, being a parasite population but one that dominates the locals and takes over their towns rather than stealing from them and living on the fringes. Plenty of examples of countries with barely developing middle classes, towns etc. having Jewish majorities in all middle class professions and in education.

https://odysee.com/@Truthishatespeech:e/Rabbi-Yaron-Reuven-gives-a-warning-to-the-Jews-reupload:0

Some good books on this:
>Werner Sombart, The Jews and Modern Capitalism.
>David Verbeeten, The Politics of Nonassimilation: The American Jewish Left in the Twentieth Century
>Paul Gottfried, Leo Strauss and the Straussian Movement
>Kevin MacDonald, The Culture of Critique
>Pic related

>>22531562
The Posen speech talks about a genocide of Jews in general, and about killing even women and children “so that future generations won’t have to deal with this problem”. He talks about how they’ve done all this but have still managed to maintain their moral integrity. Quite twisted stuff. But yeah, “deportation to the East” seems like an extremely vague codeword, and in the Posen speech Himmler basically acknowledges it as such.

Anyway, I’ll watch your links because I like alternative/non-mainstream history, so thanks.

>>22531587
Also:
>According to historian Robert E. Weir in 2007: "Although the strategy helped to boost recipient numbers between 1966 and 1975, the revolution its proponents envisioned never transpired."[9]
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2018/04/05/the-special-jewish-role-in-passage-of-the-1965-immigration-law-a-reply-to-abraham-miller/
>You can see why [in the 1920s] American felt our borders were out of control. [The immigration law passed at the time] stated a preference for Northern Europeans] ... [Restrictions on] Southern Catholics and Jews—this went on to 1964, so all through [World War II] there were incredible restrictions. 1965 comes, we’re reluctant leaders of the world, we have an economic boom, we didn’t have much immigration, and we have a ton of guilt. First, about the Holocaust. [Rep.] Manny Celler was voted in in 1923…he was Jewish, from Manhattan. He was warning about the Holocaust, and everybody was ignoring him. In 1947, he was head of the Judiciary Committee, and he was able to get jurisdiction [over immigration] changed from the Labor Committee. He had control over immigration reform. There was a huge attitude change. Exodus had been published. Israel was popular. The other thing was the civil rights movement. Black soldiers were coming back, and there were Jim Crow laws. Those movements drove the 1965 law. Philip Hart, called the conscience of the Senate, was passionate about civil rights. ... They decided to do away with preferences for work skills, and have preferences for family reunification. That’s pretty unique to immigration law—they gave green cards to extended family members.
>“Manny Celler managed to get immigration into the Judiciary committee,” Orchowski told TAC in an interview. “That changed the whole focus on immigration from a labor thing to a justice [thing].”
>Following the conclusion of the war, Celler worked to liberalize American immigration laws. He helped pass a bill that allowed 339,000 Displaced Persons to come to the United States, including many Jews.
>Over the next few decades, he continued to work to liberalize American immigration laws, pushed by Jews and others who were discriminated against by the current system. That culminated with him writing and passing the INA, which is also known the Hart-Celler Immigration Act of 1965.
(http://deborahkalbbooks.blogspot.com/2015/11/q-with-margaret-sands-orchowski.html))))))))

https://counter-currents.com/2015/10/reframing-the-jewish-question/

>>22531562
>the mass genocide of 6 million jews (3 mill in camps) via delousing agents and diesel engine exhaust in rooms that doubled as showers/hair-salons
Nobody says that all 6 million Jews were killed via gassing. Only a fraction of the 6 million were. Plenty were shot, starved to death, worked to death, or died of epidemics and poor sanitation in camps.

>>22531599
I worded it poorly, but note that is what I meant to say, hence the
>(3 mill in camps)

>>22531584
>there were people in Russia who believed Circassians are interlopers using their genocide as a cudgel to control Russians then denial of the Circassian genocide would be a serious issue.
There is justifiable reason to believe Ashkenazi are interlopers using their genocide as a cudgel to control/manipulate Westerners based on exaggerations of the Holocaust.

>>22531229
This guy is a classic case of a historian who came to identify way too much with the subject of his research. I guess he's the closest thing history has to a mad scientist and like any academic historian he's boring, stuffy, and disappointing.

>>22531588
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts after you watch it

>>22531229
Slight hijack but is there any books that legit look at different theories of the holocaust from different perspectives?

>>22531567
>>22531587
>>22531587
Very interesting. Thank you for these.

>>22531279
Yes.

>>22531449
man sometimes it's best not to ask questions.

>>22531315
>There are many reasons for censorship:
4. To help keep the truth concealed.

>>22531552
>then what are they?
Not him, but one of my friends was telling me of a group in the region that ''stole names''. They would literally murder traders passing through the area and assume their identities. I have not vetted this, but it may be worth exploring if you find anything about it. This tends to fit well with their tendency to drop names at will and assume new names.

>>22531913
I do not think so. Any deviation from the approved narrative is met with great resistance as being ''denialism''.

>>22531552
Read the Kabbalah to find out, but it's not for the faint of heart.

“We go into countries as an undercover team. We take on the same shape and form as the people there . . . we’re like undercover agents . . . We are aliens, starting to prep ourselves to conquer Earth . . . We are being trained, activated, and that emotion and mind awakens in us. It’s coming from our original planet . . . We will take over those living on Earth . . . It’s not a different galaxy, it’s a different Universe. It’s a different dimension altogether.”
-Michael Laitman

>>22531913
Any such book would necessarily classify as revisionism, as questioning the Holocaust in any way is arguably the biggest social taboo.

>>22531913
You're not even allowed to talk about it really
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historikerstreit

>>22533365
>>22532165
There is all manner of debate over the holocaust. Eg the interminable functionalism vs intentionalism debate, the bottom up theory vs from the Fuhrer. It's one of the most hotly disputed areas in historiography over the last 60 years. There are mountains of periodicals and books where historians of the period fling shit at each other

>>22531353
Genocide had never been done with such industrial, cold method before. Nobody is saying it is a memorable genocide because it's against Jews, but because of its form.

>>22533377
>Eg the interminable functionalism vs intentionalism debate, the bottom up theory vs from the Fuhrer.
Those are circlejerk debates. Like a couple arguing who loves the other more.

>>22531229
ah yea, put down the part where the trend-setter started casual conversation during a tennis match. but you didn't put the book down, so literally who he is not that special

>>22533377
But there are certain things that are verboten, for example revising the numbers or comparing it to other crimes of the period (see >>22533372) and thus denying its "uniqueness."

Finkelstein's Holocaust Industry is good on the uniqueness thing. It serves no historical function and actually destroys historical consciousness to say any event was "unique."

>>22533384
Sure it had, in many cases it was perfectly systematic. All the stuff about "industrial" genocide is puffed up by Soviet propaganda and Jewish sadomasochistic fantasies about holocoasters and baby guillotine whirligigs anyway. It was a perfectly ordinary genocide by 20th century standards, and far outstripped by others. And don't forget that the Brits pioneered genocide as a terror tactic against the Boers, specifically targeting their women and children.

The best proof of the "it's unique because it targeted Jews!" thing is that nobody bothers talking about the systematic killing and euthanizing of other groups by the Nazis except specialists or on rare occasions, even though it was equally "industrial" and "cold." It's not the "Nazi killing of people" that gets the fancy name, it's the "Nazi killing of Jews."

>>22531229
>he believes the gassings and exterminations
Go look into the Ernst Zündel trial. I'm pretty sure he was going along with the Fred Leuchter line in the 80s/90s that zyklon-b never killed anyone at auschwitz at that point.

>>22533384
Lmao what a joke, in at least one chinese city ole' Genghis assigned 100 people to every one of his soldiers and had em chop the poor fuckers head off in a line then stack them in a big pyramid and they went ahead with shit like this because they saw settled people as sub-human cattle, how is that less shocking than doing it with guns or some shit, if anything its much more horrible.

>>22532193
they live
https://youtu.be/WEcD5px35Lc?t=82

Chuds are so funny they think if they killed 500k instead of 6 million it's ok. No chud, killing half a million innocent civilians -- women and children included -- doesn't justify you.

>>22533787
Chuds are funny because they think one perseon has meaning

Can some revisionist afficionado explain why Eric Hunt, one of your top dogs, recanted recently and said the Holocaust happened

>>22533787
There is a large distinction between thousands of thousands of people dying towards the end of the war from starvation and disease of the war as Germany ceased to function as a state, versus purposeful industrial genocide. Much the same would have happened to the Japanese in American concentration camps should American supply lines and infastructure be completely destroyed.

>>22533806
All we can do is look at his arguments. He still allegedly thinks Auscwhitz was not a death camp, but iirc he holds the Reinhardt camps to have been so. His argument was based on the Hoefle Telegram and Koehrr Report, which are done and tired arguments in revisionist circles.

>>22533828
You don't need to prove "industrial" genocide of 6 million to prove the Germans conducted a genocide. Himmler says as much in this speech (https://youtu.be/mRO04q_lQi4?si=mI0_2yOlB_OlPsH7)) and there are plenty of documents showing exterminationism through shooting and other forms (the Jager report for example).

National Socialist Germans engaged in a genocide of Jews, that's a fact. Is the 6 million, the gas chambers, etc., a fact? Idk, I haven't studied it.

>>22533834
He thinks Auschwitz was a death camp
https://web.archive.org/web/20170216133625/http://questioningtheholocaust.com/index.php/2017/01/27/the-end-of-the-line/
That's his article about why he left revisionism. He goes into various arguments.

>>22533365
Jews need to grow a dick

>>22533960
>a fact? Idk,
CAREER AND LIFE DESTROYED, ANTISEMITE!

>>22533377
This is sort of what I’m looking for

>>22533390
There is a large amount of debate about the 'uniqueness' issue. That isn't verboten at all. There are books published on it

>>22534648
Then why was Nolte smeared as a Nazi sympathizer for 25+ years? The Vergangenheitsbewältigung obsession is a death cult.

>>22533806
No idea. It's so weird. One minute he's making fierce anti-Holocaust videos claiming it's all fake then the next minute he turns around and says it's all true and then deletes his website... Wonder if he was threatened.