/lit/ - Literature

There is only Sedevacantist Pentecostalism brother

So the Avignon Papacy, the antipopes, and all the other strife and nonsense to affect the Catholic Church over the last 2000 years were okay, but one pope who did a heckin liberalism means the church has fallen and sneedevacantism is the only way?
You guys don't offer any real solutions or even strive for a vitalism of the faith, you just advocate for ever-increasing splintering and fracturing of the already massively divided Christian world. Forming your own sedevacantist church in Evansville, Indiana that runs out of a trailer home isn't gonna fix the Catholic Church, it's gonna draw strongly believing members away and leave the evil modernist liberal gay heretics in power in the official church while you twiddle your thumbs.

It's almost like people who criticize Vatican II have absolutely no idea what it was actually about. Judging by this post, OP seems to fit right in with that group.

>>22494096
>Pope Pius IX for example outright declared war on his generation
You have to put it in context. He didn't declare war. They declared war on him and took away the country he used to rule. All he could do was seethe, and everything he did was seethe. He proclaimed papal infallibility as the ultimate act of seethe, trying to centralize the power that the world continued to ignore. "You can't depose me... I'm infallible!". Boom, immediately deposed the same year and now the Church is stuck with this stupid dogma.

Even the dogma of Immaculate Conception was a politically motivated act of seethe. He started working on it in exile in Gaeta, again with a goal to centralize power by getting all the bishops to agree on something and claiming credit.

Everything he did was political. It was all a reaction to having an ultimately good thing - having his country taken away. It's understandable, anyone would be mad if they were a ruler of a country and then got deposed. But the fact is that popes were terrible rulers and the Papal States were mismanaged.

The church has been a creature of its time since it existed. An early Christian would want to slaughter your precious Christians from 1935. Stop being gay and participating in some weird Jewish humiliation ritual already.

The Orthodox have said for a millenia that this was inevitable and that the Roman Catholic Church has lost the faith. Fortunately, per both the Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church, one does not need to be Roman Catholic to be saved.

>>22494346
I won't keep quiet any longer.
Millennia is plural!
Millennium is the word you want.
And while we're at it, phenomena is also plural!

>>22494246
>>22494214
You have to take the 50,000 foot view and see Vatican II as primarily a historical phenomenon. We could of course go through the various doctrines explicitly taught in the documents of Vatican II and demonstrate how they conflict with previous teachings. This is an easy thing to do, and many have done it. But this sort of analysis only appeals to lower sorts of minds. Only those who cannot read the signs of the times, who cannot integrate the various bits of scattered information they receive into a coherent whole, only they are impressed by this low-level YouTube apologetics style argumentation.

Those who look at these events as individuated, decontextualised happenings will never be able to understand. Only the mind which is able to integrate all this information into a coherent whole can read the signs of the times. The perceptive mind which can go to the new mass and immediately see that it symbolises a democratic, liberal spirit, despite all the confusion raised by its defenders. The mind which sees Vatican II as the expression of the revolutionary spirit of modernity, the same spirit which he perceives everywhere around him, whose symbols he can instantly recognise without need for an argument. Only he will see.

What was the Vatican II revolution? This question can only be answered by a mind which thinks holistically. A mind which does not regard the men themselves, or even the documents themselves, but whose interest is primarily in WHAT THESE THINGS REPRESENT. John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul II, Benedict XVI, Francis I -- all of these men are unimportant, ultimately speaking. If one of them died another would take their place. What is important is the metaphysical-cultural force that created them and propels them forward and inspires every single action they take. That is: the ever-revolutionising force of Modernity, which is identical to the force of Satan.

Seen from this perspective, it is impossible to regard the Vatican II revolution as anything but a continuation of the various social revolutions that have plagued the West since at least the start of the Protestant rebellion. At Vatican II the Church was guillotined, just as Louis XVI had been 200 years earlier. And we -- or at least I and the other Sedevacantists -- are still in bewildered awe over her death. Like some traumatised child convincing himself his beheaded mother can be resuscitated, we rock and sing with the corpse of the Church in our arms, left without a mother, hopeless, madly grinning.

>>22494554
>We could of course go through the various doctrines explicitly taught in the documents of Vatican II and demonstrate how they conflict with previous teachings.
Do it then. you cant nigga

>>22494567
King David
> In the morning I put to death all the wicked of the land: that I might cut off all the workers of iniquity from the city of the Lord.

St. Thomas Aquinas
> The life of certain pestiferous men is an impediment to the common good which is the concord of human society. Therefore, certain men must be removed by death from the society of men.

The Catechism of the Council of Trent
>Another kind of lawful slaying belongs to the civil authorities, to whom is entrusted power of life and death, by the legal and judicious exercise of which they punish the guilty and protect the innocent. The just use of this power, far from involving the crime of murder, is an act of paramount obedience to this Commandment which prohibits murder. The end of the Commandment is the preservation and security of human life. Now the punishments inflicted by the civil authority, which is the legitimate avenger of crime, naturally tend to this end, since they give security to life by repressing outrage and violence.

Pope Pius X
> It is lawful to kill when fighting in a just war; when carrying out by order of the Supreme Authority a sentence of death in punishment of a crime; and, finally, in cases of necessary and lawful defense of one's own life against an unjust aggressor.

Pope Pius XII
> When it is a question of the execution of a condemned man, the State does not dispose of the individual's right to life. In this case it is reserved to the public power to deprive the condemned person of the enjoyment of life in expiation of his crime when, by his crime, he has already disposed himself of his right to live.

Antipope Benedict XVI
> I draw the attention of society's leaders to the need to make every effort to eliminate the death penalty and to reform the penal system in a way that ensures respect for the prisoners' human dignity.

Antipope Francis
> Today, however, there is an increasing awareness that the dignity of the person is not lost even after the commission of very serious crimes. In addition, a new understanding has emerged of the significance of penal sanctions imposed by the state….
> Consequently, the Church teaches, in the light of the Gospel, that "the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person", and she works with determination for its abolition worldwide.

>>22494246
They should learn from Pope Benedict XVI on how to properly navigate the modern world and V2. The man wrote volumes on it. Sedevacantism is not the way.

>>22494554
>What was the Vatican II revolution? This question can only be answered by a mind which thinks holistically. A mind which does not regard the men themselves, or even the documents themselves, but whose interest is primarily in WHAT THESE THINGS REPRESENT. John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul II, Benedict XVI, Francis I -- all of these men are unimportant, ultimately speaking. If one of them died another would take their place. What is important is the metaphysical-cultural force that created them and propels them forward and inspires every single action they take. That is: the ever-revolutionising force of Modernity, which is identical to the force of Satan.
You've overdosed on the trad meme. It's over. Here's your pope, bro. "Pope Michael I". lol

I am confused as whether to follow Orthodoxy or Islam. My goal is to submit myself to God's rule, and get to heaven. I am a Catholic, but evidently it's all fucked. I even doubt the efficacy of my baptism, communion, and confirmation, since they were all done using the new rituals and prayers.

>>22494888
>I am a Catholic, but evidently it's all fucked.
You listen to too many autists on the internet if you think that. You'll meet good people in your local parish. There's literally no reason to be this spastic about it, unless you're sheltered and not even Catholic.

>>22494888
I hate niggers

>>22494554
>You have to take the 50,000 foot view and see Vatican II as primarily a historical phenomenon.

If we take a "50,000 foot view" then we should be confident that the Church will survive this period of crisis as it has survived all other periods of crisis.

Francis sucks, and where he tries to be heretical he should be opposed. But we've had bad Popes and heretical Pope before. Pic related, Alexander VI was an atheist and confessed on his deathbed that he did not believe in God. He also fathered several children and essentially bought his way into the papacy.

If the Church can survive somebody like this it can survive Vatican 2 and somebody like Francis. The gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

If OP is really all that worked up he should be actively trying to do something about the problems rather than giving up. Pray, fast, write, critique. The crises of the past were solved when saints, holy men and women, rose up to reform the Church. It's going to have to happen again. The problems with the Church will be solved, but they won't solve themselves.

>>22494096
This entire thread is akin to a bunch of christniggers sitting in a room arguing at length about what color yeshua bar Yosef’s underwear was

>>22494554
That doesn't counter my point at all. VII and Francis et al are a blip in the history of the church, and compared to the days of, say, the Arian heresy, relatively minor (don't go acting like I support them for saying that, though). Sedevacantism actively draws faithful Catholics away from the church where they may wield their influence in order to alter its future course, allowing people like Francis to affect events more powerfully than without. Had Athanasius simply walked away and declared the church fallen, all Christianity would likely follow Arian doctrine to this day.

>>22494923
You're the equivalent of a granny who sticks her nose in everybody's business and gripes about strangers. Is it dadlessness and imitating your mom? What compels a man to act like this?

>>22494096
>In short, Vatican II is a new religion,
Yes it is. It is a counterfeit church
>and the Catholic Church has fallen.
no the Catholic church has not fallen and will never fall.
>And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
- Matthew 16:18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxZoc_JhQtw

>>22494930
Yeah but it doesn't matter what you do or not do because the holy spirit will preserve the church anyway.
It's like the Chinese doctrine of the Mandate of Heaven. Whoever wins the political struggle must have been destined to win and therefore their doctrines are correct.
Sounds kind of dumb but this is what Catholics believe. I suppose this means that Francis is doing the right thing and the sedes are leaving the church because they are guided by the holy spirit to avoid harming it.

>>22495062
>no the Catholic church has not fallen and will never fall.
Where is it, then? And what is it? What is this supposed "church" that has not fallen?

>>22495079
The saints will preserve the Church and reform it. They have always done this, even in the face of overwhelming odds.

Pic related, Athanasius had to take on almost the entire institutional Church to defend the doctrine of the Trinity during the Arian Crisis. But he did, and he won.

>>22494858
its less absurd to believe that that guy is the pope than that francis is

>>22495092
>Where is it, then?
Everywhere the traditional Latin mass exists.
>And what is it?
Pre-1955 Catholicism. Watch the documentary I posted here >>22495062 for more detailed information
>What is this supposed "church" that has not fallen?
Traditional Catholic church my brother the one true faith. The same faith that evangelized all of Europe and the new world and major parts of the world. Convert immediately for the salvation of your soul.

>>22494554
>we rock and sing with the corpse of the Church in our arms
isn't magically coming back to life the entire premise of Christianity?

>>22495358
do you really pray the rosary every day, little christlarper?

Why does the Latin mass have such importance when Eastern churches have performed the liturgy in Greek, Syrian, et cetera for hundreds or thousands of yeasr?
Why is it better to jump ship completely and set up a million tiny little papacies rather than work from within to unseat whatever modernist liberal elements exist?

next time you think something is cringe like vatican ii just remember how many people it makes seethe and you’ll realize it’s actually based

>>22494096
The pedophile shit did more damage than Vatican 2. It's a dying religion in the 1st world, it's really popular in the 3rd world but that is probably because 3rd worlders would sell their kids to pedos and not think twice about it.

>>22495436
Not him, but I pray the Rosary every day. It doesn't really take long, just about 20 minutes, even with careful meditation on all the mysteries.

It's been a very transformative experience. I've been doing it for seven years now and it's led to my faith getting much stronger.

>Catholicism just gives you random chaos where you can't have any confidence a given parish will be orthodox
I think I'll just remain Protestant. If I have to look for a decent church then I'll take one without all of this baggage.

>>22495465
I did this for over a year and it did nothing

>>22495478
Consider praying to God instead of a mere human.

>>22494096
>and the Catholic Church has fallen.
If it was working then it wouldn't have needed to change in the first place.
>nd the first to endorse wives working outside of the home. Today's "Pope" Francis is even crazier
What does the Church or the bible have to say about that?

>>22495484
The Rosary contains many prayers to God anon. Also I prayed the Jesus prayer every day for a long time too also with no effect

>>22495490
Prov. 31:10-31

Does not indicate a wife should be confined to the home. Of course modern form of "work" is not quite the same thing it's describing.

>>22495477
Prots have their own problems. Even the Orthos have trouble, considering their hierarchy is full of state actors and guys who can't stop excommunicating each other.

Christianity is just a mess right now across all the Churches.

>>22495507
Matt. 6:7 "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words."

The Lord's prayer is an example of a formula to teach you how to pray, not something you just repeat over and over.

>>22495516
>don't do what the heathens do
>unless it's believing God can have a son, that's fine for some reason

>>22495436
I pray all fifteen mysteries every day, it takes me roughly an hour each day.
>>22495477
This is headcanon, go to a latin mass Catholic church.
>>22495484
prot detected. sola scriptura is a heresy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL2Hyve-kwg

>>22495528
Heathens aren't wrong about everything

>>22495533
>This is headcanon, go to a latin mass Catholic church.
There isn't one anywhere near me, and this amounts to the same thing as denominational choice. I should be able to go to my local parish 10 minutes away and not be scandalized.

>>22495510
>Of course modern form of "work" is not quite the same thing it's describing.
If the woman is working to provide for her family and is respectable then it to me is in line with what was said in that passage.
Of cause if she's single she's working for herself and while it's obvious 99% of woman/people are materialistic smart women/people are going to combine their assets with their serious partner when they settle down.

Probably further discussion around how to raise a child and maybe that's what the Pope was worried about, but it really isn't crazy for ordinary families to consider their finances.

>>22495533
>I pray all fifteen mysteries every day, it takes me roughly an hour each day.
Well don't count on it restoring the French colonial empire in North America any time soon

>>22495516
>And when you are praying, speak not much, as the heathens. For they think that in their much speaking they may be heard.
- Matthew 6:7
>Long prayer is not here forbidden; for Christ himself spent whole nights in prayer: and he sayeth, we must pray always; and the apostle, that we must pray without intermission, 1 Thessalonians v.; and the holy Church hath had from the beginning her canonical hours for prayer, but rhetorical and elaborate prayer, as if we thought to persuade God by our eloquence, is forbidden; the collects of the Church are most brief and most effectual. (St. Augustine, ep. 121. chap. viii, ix, x.) (Bristow) Perseverance in prayer is recommended us by the example of the poor widow, who by her importunity prevailed over the unjust judge. (St. Chrysostom, hom. xix.)
The Greek word means, to babble or trifle.
- George Leo Haydock

>>22495533
>sola scriptura is a heresy

Augustine, On Baptism 2.3.4

"But who can fail to be aware that the sacred canon of Scripture, both of the Old and New Testament, is confined within its own limits, and that it stands so absolutely in a superior position to all later letters of the bishops, that about it we can hold no manner of doubt or disputation whether what is confessedly contained in it is right and true; but that all the letters of bishops which have been written, or are being written, since the closing of the canon, are liable to be refuted if there be anything contained in them which strays from the truth, either by the discourse of some one who happens to be wiser in the matter than themselves, or by the weightier authority and more learned experience of other bishops, by the authority of Councils; and further, that the Councils themselves, which are held in the several districts and provinces, must yield, beyond all possibility of doubt, to the authority of plenary Councils which are formed for the whole Christian world; and that even of the plenary Councils, the earlier are often corrected by those which follow them, when, by some actual experiment, things are brought to light which were before concealed, and that is known which previously lay hid ..."

>>22495533
>I pray all fifteen mysteries every day
Then you don't know how to pray the rosary. I know that much and I'm not even a Catholic.

>>22495538
>I should be able to go to my local parish 10 minutes away and not be scandalized.
The location of you parish is irrelevant, be thankful we are not restricted to the catacombs.

>>22495553
When you repeat a set of words over and over like a magic spell you are babbling.

>>22495559
Indeed, I'm thankful I can attend a faithful, reverent service at a Protestant church.

>>22495461
>it's really popular in the 3rd world
Depends where really. It's falling apart and is being replaced with pentecostalism in latin america. Honestly, the only type of catholicism that is growing in the global south is of the charismatic type. You are correct that the constant pedo scandals is killing whatever religiosity is in the 1st world church. Even the John Paul ii craze in his native Poland is dying because of recent scandals.

>>22495567
protestants are not Christian. you have no reverance or you would be Catholic

>>22495461
You mean public school?

>>22495557
All fifteen are to be prayed everyday. Not 1/3rd as many do. This is what was asked of us by Our Lady of Fatima.

>>22495561
according to early Roman sources the early Christians practiced glossolalia, which is literally ecstatic schizobabbling, no matter how embarrassing this is to later Christians

>>22495573
>constant pedo scandals

It really has receded tremendously, the worst decade by far was the 1970s. These days priests abuse at a lower rate than teachers and coaches, largely because the reforms made in the 00s actually worked.

For all that America is a shitty place to be Catholic, US Catholics have actually done a decent job cleaning up their own house.

>>22495561
>"Babbling" means praying foolishly, as when someone asks for such worldly things as fame, wealth, or victory. "Babbling" is also inarticulate, childish speech. Therefore you, O reader, must not pray foolishly. is not necessary to make long prayers, but rather short and frequent prayers, uttering few words, but persevering in prayer.
- Theophylact of Ochrid

>>22495582
>largely because the reforms made in the 00s actually worked.
The reforms did see improvement to things, but most lay people are just tired of seeing their money go to lawsuits. That is what I'm seeing in my area at least.

>>22495574
>you have no reverance or you would be Catholic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL9tmkBS9K0

>>22495581
Some did. Glossolalia is also supported by the Catholic Church today through the Catholic Charismatic Revival, which has received papal approval.
>>22495588
Saying a set of words over and over like a magic spell is childish and foolish.

>>22495592
There's also the fact that I simply don't trust a lot of reporting on this issue. Everyone in the news media in America is anti-Catholic. If they're not Jewish, they're Protestant or atheist, and everybody is determined to paint the Church in the worst possible light. I basically can't trust any mainstream reporting on Catholic issues. If they're not malicious they're ignorant.

>>22494096
>Ram a P Coom

>>22495607
Thats novus ordo whats your point? I advocate for a return to Traditional Catholicism. I hate the novus ordo too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o4BMMQ2kGI
>>22495612
Cope you are wrong. I will take the church father's words over yours

>>22495613
A lot of people in the American media are Catholic actually. Your President is Catholic too if you didn't notice.

>>22495624
>Thats novus ordo whats your point? I advocate for a return to Traditional Catholicism.
I don't care what your opinion is. You don't have any say in anything. I care about the reality on the ground that's supported by the pope and the bishops, and that reality is what I posted in that youtube video.
>I will take the church father's words over yours
>>22495556

>>22495626
>Your President is Catholic too if you didn't notice.

>supports abortion
>supports gay marriage
>supports trans bullshit
>supports usury

He's an apostate.

>>22495634
And he's in good standing with the Catholic Church. Maybe the Pope should excommunicate him or something (lmao)

>>22495624
>I hate the novus ordo too.
The novus ordo is completely valid as the papacy can not give defective rites (see Auctorem Fidei).

These are definitely miserable times for the Church, it's as bad as anything during the Renaissance or the pornocracy. My consolation is that if the Church could bounce back from those low points it can bounce back from this one, too.

>>22495556
>>22495631
Protestants again taking words out of context
https://unamsanctamcatholicam.com/2022/09/13/st-augustine-and-sola-scriptura/
>Attending carefully to the wording of this statement reveals three important truths in Augustine’s thinking. Manichean writings (“books of later writers”) cannot be held as of equal authority with the Bible because they lack the confirmation of the historic Church (“through the succession of bishops and the propagation of churches”). Here Augustine says that the Church is the protector of Scripture’s integrity. When he invokes the imagery of a seat, Augustine means the Church as an authority. It is to this seat that every believing Christian must live in obedience. While the Scriptures rightly command the assent and obedience of every Christian, the same Scriptures can only be known by their derivation from and connection with the historic Church.
You cannot defeat the truth.

>>22495634
You don't have the authority to declare him apostate. That right is reserved to the Pope and his bishops (if they have his permission). You, as a layperson, can't judge if someone is an apostate; that is one of the caveats of being a roman catholic.

>Stupid prots you need the pope and the bishops, also the pope and the bishops don't do anything other than cause you problems and undermine your faith so there
Gosh that's a hard offer to turn down

>>22495636
jorge bergoglio is a jesuit (not Catholic) hes on the same side as the president

>>22495656
Ironically Vatican 2 declares that the laity deserve to have an active role in the life of the Church.

>>22495653
1. The link you posted isn't addressing the text I quoted
2. The quote you posted is not even in the link you posted but from another blog I had to find via Google
3. That blog doesn't appear to be directly addressing it either

And with that I have to go to work. Have a good one anon.

>>22495612
>Glossolalia is also supported
>Saying a set of words over and over like a magic spell is childish and foolish.
kek

>>22495663
>deserve to have an active role in the life of the Church.
Yes but not to the extent of duties reserved for the upper clergy and the pope. Imagine someone using vatican ii to say that laypeople can consecrate the eucharist lol.

>>22495674
I didn't say that I support it. Early Christians doing something does not ipso facto mean that it's correct. There are warnings in the New Testament itself about heresies and false practices that are already spreading.

>>22495680
well you have two options here:
>allow local laypeople to perform priestly duties
>gradually replace 90% of all priests in all parishes with foreign Africans as the legacy Catholic priest population dies off
now if you believe as I do that any institution this large has to be filled with cynical people, they are going go pick 1 rather than risk losing more people over the racism that would obviously follow 2. And 2 is not new, that happened in a parish I grew up in, there were the older priests who were from the community when it was higher fertility and produced its own surplus sons to consecrate to the church, and there was a new priest with a difficult accent who didn't look like anyone going to Mass

>>22495707
This is silly, the priesthood is the priesthood and that's not going to change. I really don't care what race someone is as long as they're Catholic. I'm a religious supremacist in this regard, I'll automatically support a Catholic over anyone else, regardless of their race. So I don't have a problem with priests from Africa or Asia or India. I'd rather spend time with an African Catholic than a European atheist.

>>22495691
>Early Christians doing something does not ipso facto mean that it's correct.
ah that's right, only Christianity during the High Middle Ages is correct

>>22495710
I know you say that since you don't belong to a real ethnic community and are an e-catholic, but believe me, it will be jarring to some people, even those who would not consider themselves to have a racist bone in their body, and it will encourage some people to shop around if they do not feel they are "represented" by their leaders

>>22495671
Here you go then https://www.patheos.com/blogs/albertlittle/did-augustine-affirm-sola-scripture-no/

>>22495718
>and it will encourage some people to shop around
If faith is really at such a minimal level in people that they'd consider "shopping around" would you or anyone really consider them good Catholics/'insert religion here"

>>22494346
The Orthodox Church is ethnocentric so in order to be saved you have to be born Eastern European. Very Calvinistic in its predetermination.

>>22495801
I am speaking of Americans, we move homes on average 10 times in our lives and religion is entirely subsidiary of politics now for most people. American Catholics are mostly White or Hispanic, so if the church has to import priests from Africa to serve these people and their descendants it will be a bit odd to say the least. How can a religion be thriving if its own adherents won't join it as clergy? Statistically the church in America already has huge turnover anyway, in either the form of lapsed Catholics or converts to other denominations. So you will have people leaving the church for not being liberal enough AND people leaving because it isn't conservative enough. It's being eaten at both ends, might end up like Episcopalians or Methodists or one of those other nominally Christian mainline Protestant churches that exist purely as legacy institutions and not growing communities.

>>22495822
Find me a single official document from any church in communion with the Ecumenical Patriarch that claims this.
Scratch that, find me a single document from any church in communion with the Assyrians, Nestorians, Chalcedonians, or Eastern Orthodox that claims this.

>>22494096

Yawn

>>22494554

You attached your identity to a particular concept of the Church. You are putting yourself above God. The Church must remain unified and we must trust in God. You are displaying your lack of trust in God. You think you know better. Prideful. Sinful.

>>22494096
Good post.
I'm not Christian, but I've noticed something like this happening with the transmission of Buddhism in the West. It is being reinvented to suit secularized modernized biases of the masses. It is difficult to say what's the fine line between minor modification (without changing the core) to adapt to different people versus twisting and corrupting the tradition for ulterior purposes.
I just had a long debate with a "friend" about this similar topic. I leaned more towards being reactionary whereas he was ultimately progressive.
I see the issue as being tied to high level of technological complexity, modernity, and globalization. He personally thinks none of these are issues and we must make do with the best of what we've got since even the ancient past was far from ideal. However, at what point does the tradition stop being effective?

Ultimately I lean towards "emulation". We are supposed to emulate the lives of past patriarchs to the best of our ability. In the case of Catholics, you should emulate your saints. He did not agree with my approach, claiming one should just do the best depending on the context of their life, but I view that as an Anti-Traditional compromise that ultimately favors the modernized machine over authentic adherence to a tradition.

>>22494888
you will burn in hell if you follow islam so dont do that,anyway your denomination isnt as important as your sole faith in Christ,i personally aint really of any denomination but im simply a christian and i can go to any truly christian church and i mostly go there to meet other christians.

>>22494096
Why are you posting this again? Every last one of your arguments was shot down last time I saw you post this (I don't know how many times you've posted it since then), so what are you getting at?
>Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I have never seen a sede properly articulate what exactly is theologically heretical about VII. It's all this vague shit about "A SURRENDER TO MODERNITY" and shit but I see no actual theology from them ever.

>>22494910
Anyone pretending the Church has seen anything like the modern day in the last millennium is retarded or not discussing in good faith.

>>22494554
>since at least the start of the Protestant rebellion
it starts with the fall of the Templars, bro

>>22494346
The Orthodox Church is worse than Medieval shit. It's full of corrupt illiterate assholes who'll make money off your dumb blind faith and sell you off to whoever pays more.

>>22494096
What's the word for the state of not gaven gone to confession? For when you're in danger because you're unforgiven but still a Baptized believer and go to Mass.
There's a word for that state and I can't remember.

>>22496409
It might start with the letter "P" or maybe not.

>>22496409
>>22496412
PERDITION, found it.
Now, can someone explain it thoroughly?