/lit/ - Literature

There are many inconscious beings that are alive but don't perceive life.

what class of people is life good to? don't say money

>>22492828
They dont have senses or memories to coorelate feeling to, there is no perception about a string of events that they see as larger thing, that would be life. Even if they are alive doesnt mean they have a life.

>>22492838
Happy people

>>22492849
nobody's happy, everyone wishes they were 20yo again while 20yos wish they could skip into the future

>>22492852
Why do they wish that? Because they were happy then, maybe?

>>22492822
Life has meanings in all perspectives except in the most bigger one, sub specie aeternitatis. So yeah, life is pointless in the last perspective.

>>22492861
because in their mind maybe with youth regained they can change something that wouldn't lead them to misery
we all end up in the same place

>>22492865
What i meant to say is that the perception about the string of events of one's life canot be atributed a meaning. But the living creatures has biological functions that points to a porpouse, like genitals for reproduction, and mouts for eating, those things have meaning, but our sense about it dont.

>>22492873
Happines would be better understand as an espectrum based on how satisfied you are with your life, not something that you have or dont. Wouldn't this person be more satisfied if he did go back to his 20's,thats why he Desire it after all, and wouldn't he be more dessadisfied if his life got worse?

>>22492902
people want to go back in time to avoid all the pitfalls they hit and then people want to go forward in time to get over all the pitfalls they're going to hit

>>22492911
And avoiding the pitfalls would lead to a more satisfatory life, therefore they would be happier. Have you never been happy in your life? How cant you recognise the existence of happiness?

>>22492921
happiness is novelty; the first time you smoke, the first time you have sex, the first time you pass your driver's test... these little milestones in life bring happiness, but there's not enough milestones for the length of our lives anymore so people look for things to blame on why they're so unhappy because unhappiness and dissatisfaction with life is a universal law

>>22492929
A person is happy everytime he genuinely smiles, and also can be satisfied with something that happens everyday, you seem to be describing pleasure.

>>22492822
The point IS that there isnt one

>>22492938
you're describing pleasure; eating a good meal will always be pleasurable and may be the highlight of our day, but it doesn't make you happy
watching a good film/series for the first time has a better chance at making you happy and then people will rewatch the same film for comfort, pleasure, never able to get that initial feeling of happiness

>>22492943
You seem to describe real happines as a unending state of emotional satisfaction, is that right?

>>22492959
I conceptualize happiness as novelty, something that is only experienced once per event & activity, and then fades
this is why having kids is so important to wellbeing, because you can experience their happiness with novelty through their eyes

>>22492962
How can you believe that and say that nobody is happy at the same time?

>>22492966
it's easy to be happy when you're young because of the machine gun of new experiences, but as you grow older those new experiences grind to a halt and then you're left wanting to go back
the remedy to this is children
as I said, we all end up at the same place

>>22492972
What about people that are unhappy with children? besides, not all novelty lead to happines. A person that gets robbed or hurt by the first time definetively isnt happy.

>>22492822
bland
no singular identifiable since it's continually redefined by what's extracted

>>22492978
when parents are unhappy with children what they're really unhappy with is the other parent, if you dislike your wife it's easy to dislike your kids and grow an adulthood resentment towards them and their ease of joy through new experiences, so much so that you may even want to deny them the experience to begin with and make their life difficult

>>22492984
If a person is happy with novelty, and to a parent his child represent novelty, does his second child makes him less happy then the first or is he unable to get happy, since his first child experienced it already?

>>22493003
parents tend to favor their youngest because they're still in that machine gun phase of happiness through novelty, the experience is second hand; empathy, as long as you have a vessel to experience it you can feel it yourself so it's repeatable
it's why we love showing things that made us happy to others, we want to experience their first time, movies are a good example of this

>>22493015
I like your ideas and will take in consideration next time i think about the source of happiness.thank you for the dialogue, but i will have to stop responding now.

>>22493034
cheers, friend, it was a nice conversation

>>22492972
If you graph people's self-reported happiness, you notice it dips significantly around the ages when they are actively raising their children. It only goes back around the time they finally retire. I'm not saying we should trust what individuals subjectively report as their level of happiness, but it's something to think about.

>>22493084
most people confuse happiness with pleasure, two completely different concepts
you have to sacrifice a lot to raise children and deal with the stress of providing, but we've made that sacrifice for thousands of years to experience the novelty and beauty of children

>>22493090
Yeah, I'm not an antinatalist or anything, I think having children is obviously a very enriching experience if you approach it with the right state of mind. I just think, for a lot of parents, they enjoy the idea of having kids more than the actual experience.

Like, let's be honest, it's not like most people are thinking "well, I really want to experience the novelty of life through a child, so I think I'll have kids now". They usually just have kids because of societal pressures and/or expectations. They will definitely have moments of realization where they experience the novelty and beauty you're describing, but that's like a very rare event for a lot of people that aren't necessarily as introspective.

>>22493102
very few adults can live for themselves, they need to exist for others and therefore the other exists for them, the alternative is bitter misery
that's what relationships are based on, giving each other experiences, and children are just an extension of a relationship that complicate the game
calculated risks

>>22492822
I think you need to make this /lit/ related.

>>22493125
>that's what relationships are based on, giving each other experiences
I like that.

Though I'll say, I think you're slightly ignoring the reality of how much some people enjoy routine vs new experiences. I think there's a degree of autism in everyone, where they'd rather experience something familiar and comforting, rather than uncertain novelty. It's why women rewatch the same romcom movie 200 times. It's why guys indulge in repetitive pursuits like playing chess, or League of Legends. It seems like these people would rather do this over and over till death rather than experience something new, and they enjoy that.

Or I guess you're saying these repetitive pursuits wouldn't qualify as true happiness, but rather contentedness? But at that point the question becomes which is more important, happiness or contentedness, and I think I would say it's the latter.

>>22493148
when there's a high level of dread in your life, you will seek comfort above all else and novelty is the last thing on your mind
when I'm in a dreadful state I don't want to experience anything new, I just want the comfort I know so I'll rewatch old media and play games of my past
money, family, what tomorrow holds and it's presumably bad news, isolation and no easy way out... all add to dread

contentedness is a good way to put it; it's a defensive state, one too many people are experiencing now
breaking out is hard, best believe one in this state is far from happy experiences

Nihilism is absurdism. Absurdism is stoicism. Stoicism is objectivism. Objectivism is based on three principles:
1. Reality exists objectively: it will not go away if you close your eyes.
2. Might makes right: the strong prey on the weak; it is in the nature of a wolf to hunt deer, it is in the nature of deer to stay vigilant.
3. Weakness is defined as follows: "bestowing responsibility for your existence into the hands of external factors".
Therefore, the point of life - from the objectivist point of view - is going from the point of weakness to the point of strength.

>>22492822

Here you go, you're welcome no refunds

>>22493225
>Nihilism is absurdism.
wrong
>Absurdism is stoicism.
wrong
>Stoicism is objectivism
wrong
they have some commonalities but to say A=B=C is a gross overgeneralization

>>22492822
Life is not the perception of the living, life is the living of the living and it, in humans and sone other living beings, includes perception. Humans also have the ability to objectify and ideate feelings, so if you suffer or percieve suffering, you can generalize that life is suffering.
But, you have the ability to say "no" to them as well, to withold your feeling and desire and to self-reflect. What the point of living is you can investigate for yourself, but not by stopping at this step. Hope this helps.

>>22492883
Objective shit> Intersubjective shit>>>>>>>>> Subjective shit

>>22494562
I haven't read Copenhauer yet, but my interpretation of the phrase "Life is suffering" is that in the broadest perspective, suffering is both what prevails and the only thing that is mostly life through transmutation. Human beings do not suffer anything compared to animal species and that is why it is difficult for them to see it. But you just have to observe a little, the animal you eat suffered and died but that suffering was transmuted into pleasure and life for you. And deep down there is in fact only suffering.

>>22494755
No one can beat schopenhauer nigga, life will always have suffering. Look at the state of the world now, we live in the best times with food, tech and so many good shit only for suffering to still exist in most parts of the world. Fucking rich people commit suicide or never satisified with their money, always wanting more or doing more dumb shit. Humanity will always suffer.

>>22494978
>Look at the state of the world now, we live in the best times with food, tech and so many good shit only for suffering to still exist in most parts of the world
I think the fact that life is so easy nowadays only amplifies the suffering. This is coming from an actual suicidal richfag by the way. Sometimes I think about how much more meaningful my life could have been had I stayed poor, since I could have maintained the cope that life will somehow get better once I have more money. That's why I honestly believe that third worlders in Africa/Asia live better lives overall than rich westerners - they have community/relationships + they're all equally fucked economically, so they can bond over it.

>>22495037
The main issue with rich people is that you guys always keep wanting more and more shit when it's really all about community with your own people man. Rich and the rest of humanity is too separate from each other, you need to be around the poors and not look down on them or at least help them out. It will be better for your soul and it will make someone day very happy if he or she can have some good shit.

A lot of people mocked the deaths of the Oceangate billionaires for a reason, the regular people not only found it funny but find a large disconnect to them because of how selfish and soulless billionaires can be

>>22495105
The issue comes from a financial power imbalance. If you became rich tomorrow, you would be surprised at how quickly all of your relationships are corrupted by greed. Friends would start expecting free shit from you, you would never know if women actually like you or only like your money etc... If anything, "average people" are just as greedy as rich people, they just don't want to bother putting in the work to achieve anything and would rather leech off others.

>>22495140
Here we go, the reason the average person is like that because you take most of their wealth you fucking faggot. What did you expect? To suck your cock when you make twice more than them because you simply only the company? While they break their backs for your ass only getting peanuts in a economy thats hard to survive in? No i'm not a fucking commie that wants to take your money, we just want our tax dollars to go to us instead of faggot space shit or whatever you rich people always obsesses about. I fucking hope you die alone anyways cunt.

>>22495215
>the reason the average person is like that because you take most of their wealth you fucking faggot
I didn't take anyone's wealth, made it off crypto back in 2018. I didn't exploit any workers or own a business that employed people. Just pure luck.

>we just want our tax dollars to go to us instead of faggot space shit or whatever you rich people always obsesses about
Bro, I literally live in a $500k house and drive a Rav4. I could be living a way more luxurious lifestyle with the money I have, but I'd rather not spend money on stuff I don't need. You need to stop projecting your Jeff Bezos hate fantasy onto me lol, I'm not that rich. I have about $5mil in total, including some illiquid assets, so that's not super rich, but some people would consider that rich. And yet despite the fact that I don't flex my wealth, I still get people like you who will hate on me just because I got lucky essentially. I know I'm dying alone, I don't care anymore.

>>22492822
i like beer

>>22495245
Damn alright I was too harsh man but still you just got lucky anyways while so many people with families struggle. I get it you played smart but still, you could really do a world a favor if you help out and not care about money as much. Just be a people person and everyone will eventually like you, you'll get a girlfriend not just for you money, but for your courage and empathy man.

>>22495294
No worries man. I was thinking of donating my wealth to a charity before I kill myself, so hopefully that money will end up with people that need it. I don't have any family that's alive anymore, so it's the least I can do. Sorry if I made you upset, I just wanted to give a different perspective that having money won't necessarily make things better if you're struggling mentally/emotionally.

>>22494978
>>22495105
>>22495140
>>22495215
>>22495294
You're just coping for being poor kek
>>22495329
>I was thinking of donating my wealth to a charity
>kill myself
Don't do it. You just fall in the le family and friends meme
Read Benatar it would be unreasonable for you to commit suicide

>>22495329
Oh also it would be much better if you burned your money rather than giving anything to the poorniggers because they are fucking retarded. They cause their own suffering and also cause a lot of suffering to other people and much more to animals.

>>22492865
This train of thought always puzzled me. It's like saying atomic particles are meaningless, or the flow of one electron is. It's not. Looking at the world sub specie aeterni means acknowledging the value of every pebble for the mark it leaves across the entirety of existence. Merely being in the world at any point means interacting with it, changing it, leaving a mark in others who themselves leave a mark in others, both kin and thing, in a chain that doesn't stop until the universe itself goes with it... Then the waves wash out the marks left in the sand and, purportedly, the cycle begins anew. But even those marks change the waves that take them. The sand is never left exactly as it was.
It means acknowledging eternity and being in a sort of post-being way as a fundamental fact of life. The invisible kind that no ego recognizes, but one that is there.

>>22495404
>every pebble for the mark it leaves across the entirety of existence has le... meaning
Not even in the slightest perspective lmao

>>22495448
Does a pebble stay inert and unchanging forever, or does it roll, does it tumble, does it block rivers, does it startle birds, does life take it as a tool to enact its will, does it make up part of a seabed, does more life grow on it, does it serve purpose only the blind don't notice and does it in its small stature and seemingly inert nature change the world irrevocably, its composite particles never truly vanishing until the end of time?
How the fuck do you pretend to look at things through the viewpoint of eternity when you don't even understand it lol

>>22495476
It's the opposite. It's like you're telling me that shitting and throwing my poop at the wall is meaningful.
>Woah... it smells like art, anon!

>>22495501
It's meaningful in that forty years of scatological modern art influenced you to the point not only does shit live rent free in your head, but it prompted you to write this post. Can you call that meaningless?

>>22495518
Yes anon, every drop of your pee is meaningful and every snot in your nose too.

>>22495549
They're there for a reason and they're going somewhere. The snot is a sign my body is functioning properly and blocking shit that could potentially kill me otherwise.
Maybe someday some of my piss will rain down on your face too. The chance is there.
In sign of this you only choose to believe it's "meaningless", or worth mockery because it doesn't align with the pessimism that sprung from somewhere the same way coprophagic art did. Again, you look at the entirety of eternity and the very obvious signs everything changes everything in some form and these changes last forever, even if they're invisible, and you choose to judge the entirety with your puny ego. Lol
Do you even know how history flows?

>>22495563
>Dude everything is meaningful, even my brap of this morning!
Good for you anon

>>22495586
Do you think that methane from the stinky one you ripped yesterday goes nowhere?
Break down meaning into purpose, and purpose into change, change into reaction from an action that a fundamental aspect of nature and idea, like no other, fulfills, and the only real issue you run into is that this means the universe is deterministic for unconscious matter, including life.

>>22495596
The universe is deterministic for unconscious matter, including life.
Wrong

>>22495608
in a model of the universe with no conscious beings it do be like that doe

>>22495611
Nope. Read Hawkings

>>22495725
*Hawking

>>22495730
god does not play dice

>>22492822
The point of life is to love Lain!

>>22495329
I mean, I forgot to ask but why not date a rich girl anyways if you're tired of women using you for money? I don't think a rich girl will use you for your money if shes rich...

>>22492822
laincoal

>>22495402
>woah how come everyone hate rich people so much, probably cause they're poor and gay xdd

Kill yourself please.

>>22492822
Life is by nature suffering because nothing good lasts forever