/lit/ - Literature

>>22482844
"server"?

>>22482851
Its a discord server so expect a cliquey drama box with little actual discussion of what they claim to be about.

>>22482844
Why group those together?

>>22482844
Buddhism is death worship for cucks and other degenerates

>>22482900
Don't worry, we'll come find you when you're bored of glory

>>22482857
Why are Discord servers so invariably bad?

>>22482844
>>22482844
Get this faggot trannycord shit off /lit/. Discord admins literally have leaked private servers. Use 4chan anon like the rest of us and stop trying to attention whore, or better yet fuck off and don't come back.

>>22482909
I will take pleasure in slaughtering you for more glory, shitskin

>>22482946
There is literally zero chance you would ever be able to have even a single physical effect on me

>>22482844
i will not be there, but please screenshot the best moments and post them

>>22482953
I joined and it's literally dead

>>22482948
Says the dog eating yellow faced buck toothed squint eyed gutter oil enjoying bugman

>>22482965
I see you have sacrificed your mind. Again, don't worry, hang in there and we will save you. It might take a few million years, but we'll get there

>>22482844
Nice.
You found a home for my friends.

>>22482989
Portraying gods as South Park characters, what a biting analysis

You forgot Platonists, OP.

https://youtu.be/xQXK-BMLgmc

But then again 'polytheism' is a little bit cringe of a term. Monotheism/Polytheism is a false dichotomy imo

>>22482929
4chan offspring for tripfags

>>22482971
>believes in no-self
>believes in a soul (self)

>>22483335
>believes in no PERMANENT self

>>22483345
>lasts for millions of years, can only end in extinction
>akchually it’s not permanent

>>22483352
it's not permanent because it's always changing, your current self isn't yourself from your last life or your next life

>>22483352
In what sense does my self "last for millions of years"?

>>22483359
>we will save you
So who are you referring to then?

>>22483363
Mahayana buddhists have a weird savior complex, I'm Theravada

>>22483362
> we will save you. It might take a few million years, but we'll get there
Your words dumb nigger

>>22483363
Any beings who are not yet liberated

>>22483371
What does that have to do with anything?

>>22483366
So you won’t save me in a few million, gotcha, you jungle gooks aren’t known for consistency

>>22483374
This anon is clearly a Mahayana buddhist.

>>22483378
You are talking to multiple people

>>22483374
You claimed I would be around in a million years to be saved, and now you’re backpedaling

>>22482900>
Niggas will say that buddhism is death worship and then go on praising Odin

>>22483378
>you jungle gooks
I'm italian
>aren’t known for consistency
Mahayana and Theravada are different schools, what do you expect?

>>22483386
Okay, and? You will be lol

>>22482946
There's literally a zero chance that you'll kill anyone in your lifetime

>>22483390
So we’re back to square one
See: >>22483335

>>22483392
Square one of what? Who said I "believe in no self"? I care about no such doctrines as "no self". All I know is that I'm not liberated, neither are you, and I will become liberated, and come and save you

>>22483391
There’s literally zero chance you will ever be White

>>22483398
I'm nordic from some skerry in the middle of the atlantic ocean. but nordics are not white, correct.

>>22483393
>is Buddhist
>doesn’t believe in no-self
This just keeps getting better

>>22483404
Why should I? Sell it to me

>>22483345
>He thinks he is the permanent part
The tragedy is that you are not the soul, you are the body, and your personality and memories come from it, and yes, even your autism soul retardations comes from the fear this body has of death

>>22482844
/lit/'s buddhism threads are usually poor quality and filled with posters who hate buddhism, the only way it could be worse is with a discord link

>>22483449
Buddhism is an impotent ideology, makes you into the perfect slave

>>22483452
someone who believes you aren't real and can't hurt him would make a terrble slave>>22483452

>>22483534
Lol, if I'm not real why stop anything I'm doing? Just stay on your side goy, and if it's not too much bother why don't you work in XxxX, I bet you could save many souls there.

>>22482900
>>22482946
Hilarious how a dumb fag like you is picking a fight with Buddhists. If Buddhism spread into Europe instead of Christcuckery, then paganism would have coexisted with it. Paganism did not coexist with Christcuckery. In fact, there is no living pagan tradition in Europe today in unbroken lineage to pre-Abrahamic times. You don't even engage in ancestor worship the way East Asians do. Christcucks completely eradicated all animist practices too. You even had Christcuck priests, like Jean-François Regnard, give the Sami tribe of Finland hell because of moderate pagan beliefs.
Memelord faggots like you deserve a bullet.

>>22483452
That sounds more like Christcuckery. Buddhism didn't stamp out indigenous practices the way Christcuckery did.
In fact, one can contest the claim that such a thing as "European" even exists.

>>22483573
if christianity had not spread, we would all be asian bugmen with no individuality, yes
i hate the jew on a stick but it is certainly a better system for individuals, as opposed to your bugmen subserviency

>>22483581
>>i hate the jew on a stick but it is certainly a better system for individuals, as opposed to your bugmen subserviency
that's retarded. Buddhism is a better system for individuals since it shits on society all the time.
Judaism is the usual religion made by and for normies to make them believe society is the mos important thing in their life

>>22483577
budhism ruined individuality, christcucks at least value themselves as sons of kikegod and worship the kike on a stick while worshipping themselves. Your bugmen belief is the reason asian countries are "superpowers" built on insane quantities of shitty labor paid in cents

>>22483581
>i hate the jew on a stick but it is certainly a better system for individuals
The Jew on a stick cult completely eradicated your living pagan tradition whereas in the case of the East Buddhism coexisted with local indigenous animist customs.
>as opposed to your bugmen subserviency
Buddhist poetry is some of the most creative and individualist in this world.
Slit your fucking throat, you arrogant Jew dick sucker.

>>22483591
Read a book, retarded cunt. Plenty of Buddhists like Han Shan were very individualistic and creative.

>>22483589
budhism does not regard action as a value, nor does it regard thought as a value. Its an escapist religion that worships death and the lack of desire. The protestant retards at least believe material goods show one is blessed in life.
Buddhist would see a dirty house and move to another one instead of cleaning it

>>22483596
>>22483595
nirvana is by itself an anti-individual concept. you may claim that you walk the path alone, but in the end you want to dissapear into the rest of the world. nothing further is necessary, and your "poetry" is but a means to the end of losing yourself and denying what you desire. self denial is individual denial

>>22483449
>/lit/'s buddhism threads are usually poor quality and filled with posters who hate buddhism, the only way it could be worse is with a discord link
I ways give my best.

>>22483452
Slave ot what?

>>22483573
Based.

>>22483603
This is a surface level understanding of Buddhism, and it also ignores all of the different schools.
Mahayana is actually very life affirming fyi. Maybe you have a point in regards to Theravada.

>>22483640
"The liberation of oneself is the liberation of all beings because there is no real self"
again anon, please stop being cognitively dissonant.
Read stirner, honestly cant find a better resource against buddhism that normies can comprehend

>>22483646
Explain what you think that quote means.

>>22483646
Buddhism isn't for absolute retards, so it's no wonder you see no value in its merits

>>22483654
>The liberation of oneself
The realization that the barriers between the beings, oneself and the world is illusionary, and there is only emptyness behind (kinda similar to daoism there).
That realization is the liberation.
>is the liberation of all beings
Since there is no distinction and only emptyness behind, your own liberation is the liberation of everything as well
>because there is no real self
Because that division is an illusion that once surpassed will show the reality of emptyness.
Anon i understand buddhism, i simply plainly disagree

Buddha isnt a god retard

>>22483663
>cannot understand stirner
>Ad hominem
i accept your surrender

>>22483666
You are misinterpreting emptiness or taking one interpretation as absolute.
>The realization that the barriers between the beings, oneself and the world is illusionary, and there is only emptyness behind
Wrong. This is only one interpretation out of the complex history of Buddhism. There are other interpretations, some surprisingly closer to Stirner.
>Since there is no distinction and only emptyness behind, your own liberation is the liberation of everything as well
That's Advaita and doesn't speak for all of Mahayana or other divisions.
>Because that division is an illusion that once surpassed will show the reality of emptiness.
No.
>Anon i understand buddhism, i simply plainly disagree
The absence of both understanding and not understanding is true understanding.

Starting with ontology is wrong here. The question should be, "Can you experience the 'true nature of reality' via ratiocination, rationality, and instrumental reason?" The question should be if reality is non-contradictory and can be rationally ordered. I say no. There are aporias on an ontological level in reality.

>>22483672
> Stirner ideas
I'm not even going to waste my time.

>>22483690
>muh multiple interpretations
your own belief system denies dualism and as such multiple interpretations are correct at the same time, understood
rationality being not enough to explain the universe is probably true, but the approximation is necessary, because it grants us control over our circumstances.
Your denial of reason is not conductive to philosphy or rational action, and its regressive in nature. Almost like a god of the gaps, except its more like an ideology of dissonance.
This latter characteristic is what i find so disgusting in buddhism, this refusal to fix the dissonance makes them privy to thrive in any circumstance and as such they have no moral impulse to correct injustice, and are willing to allow it as long as it wants to. its this inaction and senseless action that is hypocritical and not conductive to any sort of improvement on living quality, beyond explaining your fellow man that he does not need to take action and can just enjoy the dissonance like you do.
And in the end, even as they claim to go beyond dualism they make a difference between those iluminated and call them a specific name to exalt them over the rest as saviours whose word is mana from heaven. The dissonance is intoxicating

>>22483571
if you are indeed not real I have no inherent reason to listen to you any more than the other deluded voices; you wouldn't want to teach your slaves to be antinomian that's a recipe for disaster don't you think?
>>22483581
ah yes, my favorite Chinese cultures: Greece, Rome, Gaul, Germania, Britannia, Hibernia
>>22483591
there are a billion Chinese people, that's why labor is dirt cheap, see what I mean about these threads being retarded? The same people who hate Buddhism and come into these threads to shill for Christianity also don't understand supply and demand. Figures since Christians outsource knowledge of economics and finance to the people who invented Christianity for them!
>>22483598
>Buddhist would see a dirty house and move to another one instead of cleaning it
Then why do the Chinese run laundromats if they hate being clean? Another idiot shitting up the thread.
>>22483719
>they have no moral impulse to correct injustice, and are willing to allow it as long as it wants to. its this inaction and senseless action that is hypocritical and not conductive to any sort of improvement on living quality
well, let us know when you are done saving the world, since the road to hell is paved with good intentions you might meet a bodhisattva once you arrive there who is willing to suffer to explain your errors to you

>>22483719
Look up paraconsistent forms of logic from the likes of Graham Priest and read his essay on Nagarjuna's emptiness.
>beyond explaining your fellow man that he does not need to take action and can just enjoy the dissonance like you do.
That's not what Buddhism is about. It's about taking action with non-attachment to the outcome. You do your best without being consumed by the fire in other words.
It's not about turning a blind eye to injustice, but it's also about being realistic about one's circumstances.
It also depends whether you pick the route of a layman or monk and what school you choose. For example, a Theravadan monk and a Soto Zen lay practitioner are very different.

>>22483755
>consumed by the fire
consumed by the fire of ambition*

>>22483739
>you may fail so you shouldnt try
lol
greece, rome, britannia and hibernia did not take on buddhist retardation and were concerned with physical truths. Please kill yourself
as for the chinese billions making labor cheap, thats only the case because of the way their belief system destroys any possibility of leveraging their quantity into better living conditions.
Finally, buddhist would see a dirty house, not a dirty piece of clothing, if you are going to engage with my argument in a retarded literal way instead of the significance of escaping vs reforming samsara , at least go all the way.

>>22483755
abandoning attatchment for the outcome is retarded and does not conduct to fully trying. one needs desire and craving to kill a stronger animal for food, otherwise we are reduced to phisical differences, a numbers game

>>22483719
>muh multiple interpretations
>your own belief system denies dualism
We've already started wrong.
>and as such multiple interpretations are correct at the same time,
Wrong again.
> understood rationality being not enough to explain the universe is probably true,
Probably?
>but the approximation is necessary,
According to capitalism....
> because it grants us control over our circumstances.
That's a complete illusion.
>Your denial of reason is not conductive to philosphy or rational action, and its regressive in nature. Almost like a god of the gaps, except its more like an ideology of dissonance.
Have you read at least one Sutta?
>This latter characteristic is what i find so disgusting in buddhism, this refusal to fix the dissonance makes them privy to thrive in any circumstance and as such they have no moral impulse to correct injustice,
What does Buddhism have to do with it? Buddhism is not political proselytizing. Although they have done it.
>and are willing to allow it as long as it wants to. its this inaction and senseless action that is hypocritical and not conductive to any sort of improvement on living quality, beyond explaining your fellow man that he does not need to take action and can just enjoy the dissonance like you do.
Buddhism in Gandara an so on...
>And in the end, even as they claim to go beyond dualism they make a difference between those iluminated and call them a specific name to exalt them over the rest as saviours whose word is mana from heaven. The dissonance is intoxicating
You look intoxicated.

>>22483775
>were concerned with physical truths
And where did that bring us now? The cancer of industrialization, the fires of ambition and greed consuming the entire world? The only truth that matters is that which is found within by pacifying the mind. If you can't find the truth in your own mind, if you cannot experience the extraordinary in the ordinary, if you cannot feel compassion for the beetle, then whatever "truth" you bring forth will destroy both you and by extension the world.
If leaders cannot tame the monkey mind, if they cannot achieve an inner tranquility and calmness of disposition while retaining mindfulness, then the world they collectively create will be one full of destruction, greed, and hatred. It will be like a fire that can never be satiated.
There are studies that show people would rather zap themselves when left alone in a room than to simply sit with stillness. The silence frightens them. Everyone must face this silence eventually, for nothing can be truly grasped and cling onto life. Everything is in flux and is like sand falling through one's fingers.
In the equanimity of stillness is the origin of genuine compassion and also the seed of true understanding that transcends both understanding and not understanding.
It just seems to me you fear the stillness and equanimity of mind. You are also incapable of a true love towards anything that asks for nothing in return.
This is ultimately what Buddhism is about: stilling the mind. Only an alert, mindful mind devoid of all concepts and craving, unattached and silent without any intention to "grasp" any phenomena, can apprehend the Tathāgata, which remains unfathomable and immeasurable.
This pacified, still mind is a wellspring of creativity and compassion. Depending on what path you choose, it can merge with many things (e.g., a craft). It's about authenticity and not your rotten shitty memes.

>>22483775
>greece, rome, britannia and hibernia [...] were concerned with physical truths.
you're making this up as you go along to continue arguing, the Romans would cut up birds and consult astrologers to figure out if it was a good day for the army to attack or not, that's not "physical truth" nor indicative that they were hardline anti-collectivist cowboys
>as for the chinese billions making labor cheap, thats only the case because of the way their belief system destroys any possibility of leveraging their quantity into better living conditions.
European Christians fled Europe by the millions at the first opportunity to do so and colonized two whole continents sending centuries of immigration to them and permanently altering the genetic, cultural, and linguistic makeup... why weren't the based non-Buddhist self-improoovers alleviating the material conditions in Europe? Again you are just making things up to continue arguing
>Finally, buddhist would see a dirty house, not a dirty piece of clothing
everyone knows that non-Christians refuse to clean their houses, yes of course...
>the significance of escaping vs reforming samsara , at least go all the way.
and this is how I know you have read literally nothing on the subject, I could produce dozens of quotes from the literature instructing the non-duality of nirvana and samsara, or on the fundamental importance of compassion toward all beings, etc. but your main purpose in this thread is to express bigotry toward Asian cultures so it's no surprise you are unfamiliar with what any of them have to say... so as I've already said, /lit/ threads on Buddhism are generally terrible and can only be with discord gremlins called in

>>22483797
complete illusion because you regard the world as such. the world is very real to the perception of many who die of hunger and wounds. in the end, your salvation is to tell them to ignore that pain, not to heal the wound or feed.
It is not that you should be changing the world, is that if your belief system was of everyone, there would be no change and the human race would go extinct. And your evidence is what? that if you stop thinking enough you see a funky light?
An LSD retard could come up with a better and more cohesive version of reality

>>22483810
>And where did that bring us now? The cancer of industrialization, the fires of ambition and greed consuming the entire world?
based post, people who think they are going to fuck off to Biblically Accurate Disney World in the sky when they die have done the most to ensure earthly life becomes increasingly hellish, but unfortunately for them the eternal return is real and they will be reborn in Bangladesh

>>22483779
>>22483603
>nirvana is by itself an anti-individual concept.
You are the claiming that.
>you may claim that you walk the path alone,
The Buddha explicitly tells that friends are a strong factor for liberation.
> but in the end you want to dissapear into the rest of the world.
Buddhism is not nihilism.
>nothing further is necessary, and your "poetry" is but a means to the end of losing yourself and denying what you desire. self denial is individual denial
This is not Budism.

>>22483820
>not to heal the wound or feed.
famous famous famous jataka tale about letting yourself be eaten by a lioness because she needed to eat more than you needed your body... simply because poverty greed hunger etc exist in Buddhist countries is not an indictment of Buddhism as a philosophy or ethical system, and if it is, you should also be indicting the Western systems which have produced all manner of personal, societal, and environmental ills as these are not unrelated if they are not unrelated in the Buddhist case, unless of course you can demonstrate otherwise... but you are here to continue arguing and will pick a different angle now that this one is imperiled

>>22483811
>The nonduality of samsara and nirvana
I was giving you the benefit of assuming your practices conduct to a better existance in the end. If it comes to a simple disconnect from the "ilusions" of the world then there is no point in arguing, you do not value life, existance and movement, while i do. This is a value difference incorregible.
I will however take your criticism about my lack of knowledge of asian cultire to heart and read more on buddhism, because it is important to refute thoroughly and in every version and school.
as for the faults of cultures that did not yet have cohesive science, and were infected by the slightly less destructive catholicism, sure, call them bitches lol, i dont have much conexion to their belief systems beyond individualism
ill be back with both more knowledge and more refutals and i hope to see you then, it was a pleasure

>>22483598
>budhism does not regard action as a value, nor does it regard thought as a value. Its an escapist religion that worships death and the lack of desire. The protestant retards at least believe material goods show one is blessed in life.
>Buddhist would see a dirty house and move to another one instead of cleaning it
Cleaning your own house is quite... Buddhist if you don't know.

>>22483842
no i agree man, christianity is shit, my point was from the beggining that budhism is just worse

>>22483849
>clean up samsara bro
>oh wait no too hard lets disconnect instead lol

>>22483820
I was talking about scientific progress...

>>22483866
since when have i once praised tecnology? we evolve our shackles faster than our wings.

>>22483847
>you do not value life, existance and movement, while i do
weird claim to make, not going to bother responding at any length beyond noting your knowledge of Buddhist philosophy is too poor to continue and your tactically holier-than-thou attitude is very likely a symptom of being anti-social and misanthropic

>>22483866
how many people are getting offworld, elon? the rest of us can burn to death and drown? Buddhism is bad because it can't deliver a cyberpunk dystopian earth? These threads, absolute shit.

>>22483893
you literally regard the world as inherently bad because of suffering and value stillness anon. idk what to tell you about your views of life

>>22483942
>idk what to tell you about your views of life
obviously not

>>22483897
Why are you so bad in recognizing the Anon? I'm arguing against him
Kek

>>22483959
the difference between you and the anon is an illusion retard

>>22483942
>as inherently bad
Buddhists do not regard the world as inherently bad. They are not Gnostics who see the material world as tinged by evil. Buddhists simply argue against clinging/attachment and the three poisons ("greed, hatred, and delusion"). Buddhists encourage compassion, sympathetic joy, benevolence, and equanimity.
An example is raising a pet. I am happy when my pet is happy. Granted, I realize one day my pet will die, so I do not cling to the idea of my pet being with me for the rest of my life. Eventually I will have to let go of my attachment to my pet, and even my memory of my pet will be impermanent (e.g., some people get extreme retrograde amnesia). I help my pet without a desire for anything in return or to stroke my self-image.
>because of suffering
Suffering/dukkha is a consequence of grasping and craving. It involves a desire to continuously cling onto phenomena even though it will come to an end and is always in flux. An example is how some people go crazy when losing x or y.
There are many examples. For example, sight tends to deteriorate with age. I am attached to pleasant and beautiful sights. With the degradation of my sight, one day I may not be able to see such visual images. Being attached to sensual indulgence can lead to dukkha.
>value stillness
Yes, a still mind of equanimity is necessary for awakening and also approaching death. Let me give this example:

>In a 1991 interview, Kuklinski recalled one of the few murders he later regretted committing:
>It was a man and he was begging, and pleading, and praying, I guess. And he was "Please, God" and all over the place. So I told him he could have a half an hour to pray to God and if God could come down and change the circumstances, he'd have that time. But God never showed up and He never changed the circumstances and that was that. It wasn't too nice. That's one thing, I shouldn't have done that one. I shouldn't have done it that way.[4]

It would be better to meditate, pacifying the mind, letting go of all attachments, than to pray in such a dismal context. Prayer in such a context achieves nothing and simply exacerbates dukkha. Here is a relevant quote from Kodo Sawaki:

>Some children have caught a mouse and now it’s writhing in the trap. They’re having fun watching how it scrapes its nose till it bleeds and how it rips up its tail . . . In the end they’ll throw it to the cat for food. If I was sitting in the mouse’s place, I’d say to myself, “You damn humans won’t have any fun with me!” And I’d simply sit zazen..

How old are you? You sound like an edgy zoomie. If you're old, then you're icchantika filth.

>>22483980
i understand that through attatchment we suffer, but the whole idea of coming to forego attachment is that both death and suffering is inevitable, that the world is far stronger than us and as such struggle is pointless. Do you understand how such a belief would make a person inmobile and unwilling to put in the effort for change? it is not that the doctrine is wrong, when faced with insurmountable odds one should come to terms with death, but the practice of inaction, of the rat stopping the struggle, is what really condemns the rat to death. if it were to struggle, the trap may give, or it may bite the children so that they may not torture rats again. but if it stays still, it is dead for certain, much like you and other buddhists are static for certain
finally, no attachtment makes our influence on the world weak. The man who is attached, will go to any lenghts for its attachment, and he may succeed, the man who doesnt, will just wait for it to pass and lose yet another thing, until everything is taken from him, who perfectly calm, will die in silence.
You dont see anything wrong with that, and thats the fundamental difference in our values

>>22483996
See, I am not saying human beings should "sit back and do nothing". Some threshold of civilizational organization is necessary, but it seems *you* don't know "when (it's ideal) to stop".
A village needs several things for stability: communal ethos, good sustainable agricultural practices, and *self-defense*. Buddhism supports all of this.
In fact, there is a story of the Buddha (in a past life) killing a madman *in self-defense* on a boat who was threatening to harm everyone on said boat.
There is a difference between imperial conquest and self-defense.
The modern industrial progress of "exploring the stars" and "fusing man with the machine" is, indeed, pointless, however, but the struggle to maintain basic survival, subsistence level, is NOT pointless in Buddhism. Buddhism is NOT Jainism, and you seem to fail in understanding the basics of the Middle Way.

Again, how old are you?

>>22483996
>no attachtment makes our influence on the world weak.
Try the word "fetters" or "chains" or "bondage." Are you more or less potent when encumbered? If an endlessly swelling number of things can hold you hostage, how free are you really to "change" or "influence" others, the world, etc.? This position of yours, that slavery is the real mastery, seen for what it is, is completely inverted, delusional reasoning.

>>22484012
what i am arguing is that it is through attachtment that you can realize these things, and it is through suffering that one achieves growth and stability.
Im not saying pasionless acts cannot create a village, im saying pasionless acts cannot overcome overwhelming hardship, while passionate acts can, they may fail of course, but they might.
You would not struggle your way out of the trap and would surrender to your fate precisely because you lack that attachtment, attachtment that sublimates into passion.
Yet you argue against this techloving strawman

>>22484023
pasionless moves change on a whim, carry no might behind its direction because the one doing them has been floating in the air without a single point to generate strenght from
You cannot influence what you are disconnected from. you must touch a surface to jump, and you must grab to pull.

>>22484039
give me a sneed and I shall feed and seed the earth... belief in permanent unchanging innate things precludes any ability of yours to make them formerly something else

>>22484074
without a sturdy bottom one cannot build a house that will stand. Your indifference to truth makes you no better than a postmodernist kike

>>22484028
>what i am arguing is that it is through attachtment that you can realize these things
Given the Middle Way, people are operating based on some degree of attachment unless they abandon domestic life by becoming either a hermit on the mountains or a monk. Regardless, it is good to be aware of this attachment in a context-dependent fashion.
>and it is through suffering that one achieves growth and stability.
I am not interested in "growth", outside of improving stability. Stability is, indeed, important in Buddhism.
Achieving stability can also be done by not developing a fetishistic approach towards suffering. In fact, your approach seems more likely to increase suffering, which will thereby decrease stability.
Moreover, I recommend analyzing the relationship between "growth" and "stability" more. In many ways, they have an inverse relationship.
>Im not saying pasionless acts cannot create a village, im saying pasionless acts cannot overcome overwhelming hardship, while passionate acts can, they may fail of course, but they might.
The point is Buddha encourages the 4 virtues: "compassion, sympathetic joy, benevolence, and equanimity." It is via the first three virtues that one can overcome hardship. For example, let's say a famine hit a village and a Buddhist noticed this. The Buddhist also, during his strolls in a nearby mountain, discovered more fertile land. Out of this Buddhist's compassion, he might help the villagers move towards this nearby plot of land.
>You would not struggle your way out of the trap and would surrender to your fate precisely because you lack that attachtment, attachtment that sublimates into passion.
In the particular examples I gave, struggle is futile. In other contexts, some degree of struggle may prove beneficial. It is context-dependent. A mouse cannot beat a circle of kids encircling him, much like how I can't beat a man with a shotgun aimed at my head in a small cubicle room. It's better to let go of one's attachments at that specific point.

My overall point is you cannot beat mortality and impermanence. Even the human species, from a comprehensive evolutionary perspective, is impermanent. This reveals all desires for "permanence" as insufficient. The only guarantees in life are that you will die and things will change. Many men who have planted trees for the benefit of other sentient beings did so with the full awareness that such a tree will not be there for all of history, but still you plant the tree out of compassion.

>>22484095
houses have foundations, not "bottoms" you pontificating moron... so wise and knowledgeable on so many subjects but architecture and Buddhism are not among them

>>22484099
>For example, let's say a famine hit a village and a Buddhist noticed this. The Buddhist also, during his strolls in a nearby mountain, discovered more fertile land
what you show is not overwhelming hardship, but simple hardship, with a solution in wich your power fantasy shows the buddhist as already having a solution.
Furthermore, i am not talking about compassion, but passion, illogical acts born of attachtment that bring forth unexpected results.
>I am not interested in "growth"
Stability against decay neccesitates growth. Skills and versatility require energy and movement, and will be the thing that proves enough against overwhelming hardship.
>much like how I can't beat a man with a shotgun aimed at my head in a small cubicle room
How would you know? and would it not be benefitial to attempt so either way? you may not beat him but wound him and save another. You may not manage anything at all but you had a chance, you proved your life to the very end. taking it in peace is the opposite, is a death that already happened before he pulled the trigger. Same be with the rats.
>My overall point is you cannot beat mortality and impermanence
Indeed, but one should aim to try to do so, because decay is inevitable and only staved off by our attachtment to life and permanence

>>22484107
explain this then retard
Adhominem without a counter argument is losing twice

>>22484136
is that house real? holy shit... i guess i have to adopt teenage neonazism as my new worldview

>>22484147
we won again chudbros

>>22484127
>passion, illogical acts born of attachtment that bring forth unexpected results.
These "unexpected results" born from overly passionate acts stemming from attachment have repeatedly turned out to be self-destructive and erosive to world, creating more complications than actual solutions.
>Stability against decay neccesitates growth.
Yes, but that growth needs a limit imposed by a communal ethos oriented towards higher-ideals such as enlightenment. Without such a limit, we experience the industrial mess that we are presently dealing with.
>you proved your life to the very end.
My life is my own. I don't need to prove anything.
>taking it in peace is the opposite, is a death that already happened before he pulled the trigger.
Taking in peace is better in that particular context. The whole point of my highly specific example is the struggle is futile in that specific context.
>Indeed, but one should aim to try to [beat mortality and impermanence]
No, I don't irrationally aim for such impossibilities. It is better to make peace with the ephemeral instead while still embodying those 4 virtues I've mentioned.
> only staved off by our attachment to life and permanence
Compassion is not necessarily rooted in attachment to permanence. My point was compassion can stave it off too while imposing limits on dangerous ambitions.

A Buddhist can still appreciate observing a beautiful garden with hummingbirds, bees, butterflies, and so on. The point is not to remain attached to the sense impressions or imagine it as existing eternally. You can still compassionately water the garden, do your best to protect it, and so on, but one does all of this with an awareness of its transience. This roughly corresponds to the Japanese concept of 'mono no aware'.

This too shall pass

>>22484173
you seem quite attached to your anti-industrial and technology advancement ideology, seems very little to do with buddhism

>>22484183
Authentic Dharma is incompatible in an industrial, technological setting. This places me closer to Thai Forest monastery.

>>22484173
>have repeatedly turned out to be self-destructive and erosive to world, creating more complications than actual solutions.
may i beg for a source, gentleman?
>that growth needs a limit imposed by a communal ethos oriented towards higher-ideals such as enlightenment.
Productivity and GDP are higher ideals, so is tecnology and safety. your version of hell where one is content with who he is unchanging and prohibited from certain growths is the same as the one we live in.
>My point was compassion can stave it off too while imposing limits on dangerous ambitions.
indeed but only ambition can stave off catastrophe and overcome death where compassion fails. it is not that compassion is bad, it is just insufficient. The fact that you claim to know what the dangerous ambitions are or even claim all of them are dangerous is what i disagree with.
>My life is my own. I don't need to prove anything.
a moral opinion, i would say you are relinquishing your life the moment you give up. you would say you are taking control of it. thats a matter of belief and therefore impossible to conciliate

>>22484196
How old are you? Please answer my question.
>Productivity and GDP are higher ideals
No. If you truly believe this, then you are a hungry ghost and icchantika of the highest order. You will suffer for thousands upon thousands of kalpas, and I wasted my time debating a piece of shit like you. In my view, killing someone like you accrues absolutely no negative karma, since it is due to icchantikas like you that we're in this mess.
Stfu and kys, and I mean this in every sense of the word.

>>22484183
>>22484188
literacy has gone down and temperatures have gone up in societies prioritizing the latest technologies at all costs, which believe in serving machines, in becoming sorceror's apprentices but never genuine sorcerors. One of the most interesting new developments coming out of the "radical attachment to growth no matter the consequences" mindset is a tick-borne disease that didn't exist years ago—it makes you unable to digest red meat once you've been bitten. Nature knew the cure to cancerous growth all along was simply to kill the host. All actions have consequences

>>22484210
>Productivity and GDP are higher ideals
They are abstract ideals expressed in numbers, not that different from yours, similar in nature but different in form. the fact that you cannot see that is proof enough that you are lost my man.
anyways, never claimed they were good. please kill yourself for how quick you are to anger when it comes to industrialization: nobody here loves it in the slightest. You are fighting ghosts

>>22484212
>which believe in serving machines
it doesn't

>in becoming sorceror's apprentices but never genuine sorcerors
schizo nonsense

>"radical attachment to growth no matter the consequences" mindset mindset is a tick-borne disease that didn't exist years ago
just because you didn't knew don't mean it didn't existed

>"radical attachment to growth no matter the consequences"
that's unrelated to the concept of industrial society and technological progress, at most describe economic illiterate people, mainly keynesians and politicians

>it makes you unable to digest red meat once you've been bitten
it's not what that disease cause

you are just trying to use a superficial buddhist cote of paint to push the idea of a primitivist utopia and talk shit about thing you no nothing about

> cancerous growth
yeah the cancerous growth that enable us to live beyond mere animalistic survive AND preserve nature

You can just seeth and have wet dreams about living a subsistence farmer or a hunter gatherer, or you can let go of you ideological attachment and see the world and nature as it is

>>22484235
>not that different from yours
Enlightenment and valuing GDP and productivity are of two different irreconcilable natures or orders. Enlightenment is a transformative experience that leads to a richer experience of life and a tacit apprehension of it's true nature. "Productivity and GDP" are based on insatiable greed and plundering the Earth in order to turn it into industries.
You're a retarded edgelord cunt. Zoomie shit brains.

>>22484279
>Enlightenment and valuing GDP and productivity are of two different irreconcilable natures or orders.
they have the same function of elevating the conscious pov from the individual to the comunity/world/etc
yours is just less materialistic.
Its enough to see india and china to know where your belief leads you: the same but different.

>>22484275
Just stfu you retarded pseud. I doubt you even read much literature in the first place. Your shit vulgar brain is more suited for crappy Shounen anime or something like that.

>>22484279
>Zoomie shit brains.
yet you whole pseudo-buddhist rant is the epitomize of the modern zoomer mindset

>>22484290
>No argument
>Adhominem
yep, pack it up boys
we are done here

>>22484288
You are such a fucking retarded depraved pseud that choking you would be an act of mercy.
>they have the same function
They don't.
>Its enough to see india and china to know where your belief leads you: the same but different.
No. Also, Mao was backed by Goldman Sachs and powerful Bolshevik Jews, which I can give the source for.

Your sweeping generalizations of extremely complex nuanced problems makes you an insufferable pseud.

>>22484290
and here you drop the mask and show the angry teen you are deep inside

>>22484292
Zoomies don't bother reading sutras or anti-modernist figures.
>>22484295
You're an ESL and can't even form a cohesive argument.
You won't even answer my initial question of how old you are.

>>22484302
“Since icchantikas are incapable of belief, killing them would be blameless, while people who believe reach the state of buddhahood.”
-- Bodhidharma

>>22484302
Depending on your age, I am 100% sincere when I say, "You deserve to die". Now fuck off, icchantika. I've humored you enough.

>>22484275
>schizo nonsense
you've really never heard the story of the guy who enchants his tools to do his chores and almost gets killed? i guess that makes sense

>>22484299
>They dont
No explanation after, then a claim that does not explain why the populace accepted the mao regime as opposed to situations like cuba(wich admitedly suffered more).
>>22484303
>Give me your age
I dont fuel ad hominems with personal details, much like i have not asked your age because my own Ad Hominems are based around the low value of your beliefs, and accompanied with an argument.
>Nooo you gotta do gramar perfect unless i cant understand
words are a means to an end anon.

>>22484308
>compassion to all beings
lmao
kantian universality principle be damned i guess
>>22484315
>age
ilusion anon, its an ilusion, we have both reincarnated millions of times, how would i know my age?

>>22484326
The collective behavior of post-industrial countries has nothing to say about the idiosyncrasies of their traditions, ingrate. You lack nuance like a typical cretinized, dysgenic Zoomer. The only thing you have is arrogance. You are a completely soulless faggot without a glimmer of Buddhanature.
>personal details,
I asked for your age out of compassion. If, for example, you are young, I will just dismiss your retardation as a phase born out of teenage arrogance and rebelliousness.

>>22484329
You've forsaken your sentience. It is debatable if you even possess qualia depending on your age.
>ilusion anon, its an ilusion, we have both reincarnated millions of times, how would i know my age?
You're not witty or intelligent in the least. You are either a depraved oldfag who is destined for the narakas or a cocky teenager who needs more life experiences and contemplation to work things out.

>>22484335
>The collective behavior of post-industrial countries has nothing to say about the idiosyncrasies of their traditions, ingrate
Source? Any proof? are you hiding that sweet argument behind those robes buddha?
> i asked your age to know if i should hate you or ignore you
lmao. i carry more buddha nature than you and i dont even know what that is

>>22484342
Tell me your age.

>>22484275
>yeah the cancerous growth that enable us to live beyond mere animalistic survive AND preserve nature
AnCap?

>>22484340
>>22484349

>you have forsaken your sentience
>You are not witty
>Give me your age!
Ah the long ad hominem. Who needs wit when you have given up on arguing and are chasing me off like an old man with a broom chases off an annoying youngling?
I bet you like that image too, it makes you seem wise, but if anything it is evidence of your lack of energy. Knowledge with no impact, a limp dicked illumination. The old man that lost respect from the youngest generation
But if anything you think exactly like the postmodernists, those permeated among current pop culture and feeding the zoomers you claim to dismiss. They are not in disagreement with you, if you were to preach your beliefs in public is likely not a single man would attack you, only dissmiss you and ignore you.
You boast that your religion would have saved the pagans but thats not a good trait lmao, it just proves how permutable and incomplete your principles are. When it comes to natures, it is not incompatible with even the zoom zooms.
But you need to assert intellectual dominance because this is your identity now.
Im two years old. go wild. nevermind im eighty, or two hundred
see how pointless your question is?

>>22484378
Tell me your age.

>>22484389
give me a second, let me try something

>>22484378
>if you were to preach your beliefs in public is likely not a single man would attack you
teenage neo-nazis are the fedoras of the 2020s change my mind

>>22484411
Yeah, he's probably a depraved, hypocritical teenage Neo-Nazi faggot.

>>22484411
>>22484424
ad hominem and no argument. i love it