/lit/ - Literature

>>22466132
Oh so this is the new spam thread? Are going to see this every few days from now on?

>>22466132
Haven't read it, but Marxism contradicts transgenderism. Trans people are addicted to embodying traditional identities, even if they claim to wish to abandon them. They speak of simply wanting the freedom to embody different identities but they do not understand that this implies the erosion of the meaning of the identities that they wish to fulfil. It is contradictory.

>>22466152

>>22466132
>/pol/tard is so brainbroken by marxism, he tries to link it to troons
kek

>>22466152
So they day they want to abandon it, and you say they arent doing that. But then you also claim that their identities are an erosion of the identities you claim they arent abandoning. So are they upholding traditional gender roles or eroding them? Trans people are often gender non conforming so the erosion of gender is a good thing in general. In fact the way they define their identities as independent from biology or presentation or social roles is against the way traditional gender roles are formed

>>22466132
>in my city
Portland?

>>22466189
I was gonna go for their being so brain-broken by troons they link it to marxism.

>>22466199
stockholm

>>22466194
They are eroding traditional gender roles but they get off on using them

>Trans people are often gender non conforming so the erosion of gender is a good thing in general
I've never met or even heard of a single trans person who has completely abandoned traditional gender norms (if such a thing is even possible)

> Trans people are often gender non conforming so the erosion of gender is a good thing in general
They don't though. Gender dysphoria is an illness that is supposedly cured by adopting a different biological and social gender role.

All gender is an expression of biological or social norms. Trans people just want to express a different one to the one they grew up expressing.

>gender is a social construct
>it has no essential reality
>therefore, I am going to permanently mutilate my body to imitate something that doesn't exist
>I am also going to dedicate my entire life to aping this thing that doesn't exist in order to show other people I am indeed this thing that does not exist

>>22466222
Yeah literally this (I'm >>22466209)

Transgenderism is a contradiction. They claim to be transcending gender, but then at the same time get off on wearing dresses or cutting off their breasts, i.e., they enjoy the very thing they claim to be transcending.

If you enjoy being a sissy little girl by cosplaying as the opposite traditional gender roles then just admit it.

>>22466132
sounds fake never heard of it

the whole gender wonkybonk wave seems to have crested and will recede as material conditions worsen in the west

good luck with your fetish

>>22466201
troonism is a master signifier, you link it to whatever you despise

>>22466209
>Gender dysphoria is an illness that is supposedly cured by adopting a different biological and social gender role
>All gender is an expression of biological or social norms. Trans people just want to express a different one to the one they grew up expressing.
Because on a neurological level they are a gender that isn't their birth gender, you can look at MRIs done on trans people that shows that they identify with their identified gender not their birth gender, It's not a choice, it is as innate to their sense of self as a persons sexuality is.

>>22466258
Okay and that contradicts the notion that they want to abolish gender, if they literally physically have an essential marker of the opposing gender.

You can't have it both ways, you either deny gender entirely, or you accept gender roles and just use the opposite one to the one you were assigned at birth. You can't do both at the same time, as these gender abolition trans people try to do

>>22466258
>Because on a neurological level they are a gender that isn't their birth gender, you can look at MRIs done on trans people that shows that they identify with their identified gender not their birth gender, It's not a choice, it is as innate to their sense of self as a persons sexuality is.
this is completely false lmao.

>>22466269
>this is completely false lmao.
It's not, it's been scientifically proven for years at this point.
> The present MRI study of 54 hormone naive transmen (TrM), 38 transwomen (TrW), 44 cismen and 41 ciswomen show that cortical gyrification, a metric that reflects early maturation of cerebral cortex, is significantly lower in transgender compared with cisgender participants. This reduction is limited to the occipito-parietal cortex and the sensory motor cortex, regions encoding own body image and body ownership. Moreover, the cortical gyrification correlated inversely with own body-self incongruence in these regions. These novel data suggest that GI in TGI may originate in the neurodevelopment of body image encoding regions. The results add potentially to understanding neurobiological contributors to gender identity.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8324983/
But this doesn't matter, bigotry generally is is a political program, immune to anything as meager as scientific evidence.

>>22466132
OP is mentally ill tranny
check pic in archive
first mention in 06 Oct 2021 on /lgbt/ board
>Should I buy this book?
he asks
filename is the same
two years later his schizophrenia gets reactivated and he starts to spam it on other boards


ps
join 40% faggot

>>22466289
>troons are mentally ill and this can be seen in their brains therefore pink brain blue brain
you are not capable of reason.

>>22466293
good catch, my digga.
It is probably for the best to not respond to this bait.
/thread

>>22466209
>>22466209
>I've never met or even heard of a single trans person who has completely abandoned traditional gender norms (if such a thing is even possible
Picrel is a trans guy, snd also a femboy, not upholding traditional gender norms. There are other people like that
>Trans people just want to express a different one to the one they grew up expressing
They want to free themselves from the gender they grew up expressing, that does not imply that they want to fit neatly into the other box. For example a trans man may or may not want to have breast, or a trans woman may or may not want to have a penis. It is not adopting a social gender role. Just being accepted as the gender they are, without necessarily having to follow the roles for that gender. For example, picrel wants to be treated like a man, but will not conform to the roles that are placed on men you can be part of a group while also going against its rules, it will just be interpreted as a subversion of said rules.
>>22466222
They don't get those surgeries or behave how they do because they think it will make them more of that gender. They are always that gender, prior to doing any change. And even if they didn't get any of those changes they wouldnt stop being their gender. It is just a personal choice, some people suffer from extreme distress over certain parts of their body so they change it, you don't have to be trans to do it, and doing it isn't making you any more of that gender, it will aleviate the distress. For example, phalloplasty was made for cis soldiers eho lost their dicks, they didnt stop being men when they had no dick, but they chose to get a new dick to stop the distress

>>22466298
Neurological connections like this cannot be purposefully formed or undone (if it could then gay conversion camps would be far more successful than they actually are), they most likely are caused by hormone reactions during key stages in fetal development, they were literally born that way, i don't think people should be punished for the crime of just being who they are but obviously you don't agree so i guess you can just continue to just virulently hate a group for the crime of just existing.

>>22466293
>>22466312
Troon marxists pretend to not know about google images names.
They really are desperate to deny their nature and will engage in any lie or schizo theory they think will help them.

>>22466314
>Picrel is a trans guy, snd also a femboy, not upholding traditional gender norms. There are other people like that
Picrel is literally dressed like a cute girl displaying traditionally feminine characteristics lmao

> They want to free themselves from the gender they grew up expressing, that does not imply that they want to fit neatly into the other box.
Yes it does, hence why they start expressing the characteristics of the other box

> It is not adopting a social gender role
Yes it is, else it's literally meaningless. There's no non-social non-biological way to express gender. It has to be social or biological.

> For example, picrel wants to be treated like a man, but will not conform to the roles that are placed on men you can be part of a group while also going against its rules, it will just be interpreted as a subversion of said rules.
No, it will just be interpreted as continuing to express yourself the ways that girls traditionally do.

No one looks at these images and sees subversion, they just see someone who is continuing to express themselves as a cute girl. That's it. They continue to uphold the traditional gender norms

>>22466320
>neurological connections cannot be purposefuly formed or undone
>>what is thinking?
>>what is personal information ingestion and resolution?
>>literally never heard of biology, at all
>>muh hormones, it's always the hormones
>fully sure that nothing besides hormones, predetermined genes, mRNA and sirtuins matters
I will hit you in the noggin with a 10/15 wrench and we will see about those "neural connections" being undone and then reformed as your shattered cranium heals from the shock.
EVADING BASIC BIOLOGY FOR VIRTUE SIGNALLING IS NOT GOOD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD.

pic unrelated, just wanted to share some pierogi, because I'm hungry.

>>22466347
>>22466314
To summarise, the only way to subvert gender is not to play the game at all.

Unironcally, when it comes to abolishing gender, Slavoj Zizek is a far better trans person than any people who look like picrel or dress or act differently in order to try to be subversive. The only way to subvert gender is to not care about it. Anything else is just accepting and enjoying various traditional gender expressions

>>22466314
>They are always that gender, prior to doing any change

They were always something that is constantly in flux, always changing and defined by societal norms? So when they were born, and were called a boy (taking a mtf as example), they were a boy? But then later on down the line at whatever age they decided they were no longer a boy, they then became a girl?

>>22466351
based schizoposting you really got me there, you can go to sleep now you've won

>>22466314
>Just being accepted as the gender they are
where? in their immaterial soul? pink brain blue brain isn't real.
>>22466320
some correlation in one part of the brain with being a tranny found in one (1) low N study does not mean that that brain feature inevitable makes someone a troon. it does not mean that trooning out with hormones and surgery is therefore the only confirmed correct treatment.
you have no argument to stand on.

>>22466186
>the family as critical for stabilization of capitalism
>implying the family isn't critical for the stabilization of any society, and that this ideology won't naturally derail society in its hedonic omni-individualism, with children primarily created through technology (just as technology allowed transgender people to exist in the modern context through hrt) by the state for practical purposes

>>22466368
studies have been made on this for over a decade at this point i just chose one, i have no "argument", i don't need one it is a actual fact that these people do not identify with their birth gender and suffer from dysmorphia. How you or i personally feel about it doesn't matter.

Genuinely in awe that zoomers think men putting on a dress and feeling cute is in any way subversive

>>22466132
Tbh, these books are just character-customization I-made-a-cool-brand-name manifestos masquerading as 'theory'. The name has always to go front and center. God forbid if there were actually any marxist analysis going on! Instead it's just: Transgender Marxism is this, Blacceleration is that, Xenofeminism is this, Dark Deleuze is that, etc. etc.

>>22466388
scots did this, and nobody cared because they were not obnoxiously flaunting it as some sort of virtue. Transfags do flaunt themselves and mainly the process, not it's result as some sort of war against the machine, while in reality they are in direct contrast to scots, not only promoted by the country but affirmed by people who commit tokenism.

tldr: trans bad because they are emotionally, logically and bodily incapable and lower than the average man while posing themselves as enlightened and better for 'being what they are instead of becoming different" as if being a piece of shit and embracing it was something to be proud of, in opposite to improving yourself by fitness, education, philosophy and socializing.

have some more pierogi.

>>22466132
>tiny brain: trans ppl should be against capitalism because of how it handles healthcare needs like HRT
>normal, functional adult sized human brain: trans ppl should be against capitalism because it allowed the poisoning of the ecosystem through endless microplastics and hormone altering chemicals, thus creating the cartoonish spike in gender dysphoria that is genuinely statistically incomprehensible on the scale of how small the trans / gender-nonconforming population normally is in society across history, even in cultures that were accepting of such people.

>>22466407
I'm happy with trans people doing their thing as long as they don't claim they are somehow abolishing gender by doing it

>>22466387
>Because on a neurological level they are a gender that isn't their birth gender
this is false.
>trans people that shows that they identify with their identified gender not their birth gender
AGP does not mean that a man is actually a woman.
your study has nothing to do with this.
you are confused and have lost the plot now.

>gender is not biological and is actually a social performance
>also btw trans people literally have a different essential biological gender in their brains

>>22466414
>poisoning of the ecosystem through endless microplastics and hormone altering chemicals, thus creating the cartoonish spike in gender dysphoria
that did not cause the rise in trans. once again a troon is trying to conflate intersex with trans. spiking trannyism is a social contagion having to do with porn and the internet.

>>22466421
>this is false.
No it's not, you can quite literally see how trans people do not identify with their birth gender on a neurological level, this is irrefutable, the only reason to reject is because it doesn't vindicate your own personal bigotry which is exactly what you do.

>>22466437
So gender is truly objective and biological confirmed

>>22466443
Evidently not since there are people who are incapable of identifying with their biological gender.

>>22466451
The person I'm replying to literally just claimed that gender is biologically encoded in the brain

>>22466452
a gender which is different from their biologically assigned gender at birth which shows that gender goes beyond just ones reproductive organs.

>>22466347
>Picrel is literally dressed like a cute girl displaying traditionally feminine characteristics lmao
But he is a man and affirms his identity as one while rejecting the roles men are given
>Yes it does, hence why they start expressing the characteristics of the other box
Then you cant explain the picrel. He is trand and is nor expressing the characteristics of the other box.
>Yes it is, else it's literally meaningless. There's no non-social non-biological way to express gender. It has to be social or biological.
You confuse gender with gender roles, you can be a man and not follow the roles of the gender. It is social in expression, and arguably biological (neurological) in origin, it does not however imply comforming to tradition
> They continue to uphold the traditional gender norms
If a man dresses like "a man" then he is upholding traditional gender roles. And you say if he dresses "like a woman" he is also upholding traditional gender roles. You seem to think he does this with the intention to signal to the gender norms as a negation of them (and thus in your words "playing the game") but why is zizeks "masculine" presentation not playing the game? Why do you assume one is doing it naturally and the other is doing it as a statement.
>>>22466360
It is similar to sexuality. They are always originally labeled straight, and they may live like that for many years, but then one day they interpret the natural attraction they have twoard men, then they can chose to lean into it and come out as gay, in a way "becoming" gay in the act, but also you could say since the sex drive twoard men existed and caused the coming out, then they were "already gay". Both are true depending on if you talk about the underlying condition or the social label

>>22466461
And? It still shows that gender is an objective biological reality rather than socially constructed

>>22466437
>>22466451
>troon attempts abuse of science
>it's not very effective
"identifying" is not a rigid scientific quality that can be measured. identifying with something, whether that's even meaningful, does not make someone that thing.

>>22466132
What does transgender have to do with Marxism? Marx offered a class based economy focused analysis of society. Where does transness fit into this? A transgender identity didn/t exist in Marx's day, a time before transhumanist technologies like the pill and sex change operations.

Marx didn't care about kids being dunked on for being different. He famously called Lassalle a nigger and bullied his rivals out of the first international. Marx was strictly concerned with the liberation of the proletariat, the poor fucks who had to drag coal out of mines or hammer steel all day not edgy woe unto me teens.

I've seen a lot of trans lefties claim that transphobia is caused by capitalism. But isn't the ability to experiment with women's clothing, change your hairstyle, and play with make up enabled by capitalist hyperconsumerism? Aren't many trans people CEOs, from wealthy families, or celebrities? Isn't pro-trans stuff pushed by a select number of corporations?

>>22466437
The social contagion is clearly an element in the modern variant we're talking about (see any random sissy hypno thread), but I don't see why it wouldn't be a combination of both. Mere hormonal shifts below the human threshold of HRT and merely accumulating after embryonic development wouldn't make someone intersex (like how frogs were with having such high doses of atrazine for their body size), just like a man losing testosterone as he ages doesn't make him intersex, but the shift in hormonal makeup / distribution clearly would be grounds for someone to be mentally altered in their thinking or more susceptible to the social contagion aspects of the modern dilemma, in addition to the cultural aspects of trans being a source of in-grouo community during a period of severe social isolation and lack of community.

>>22466475

Meant for >>22466436

>>22466466
>"identifying" is not a rigid scientific quality that can be measured
except it can through MRIs which show that trans people identify with a gender that is not their birth gender, it is proof that this is a real phenomenon.
>>22466465
Gender roles are socially constructed, a persons sense of gender identity is innate

>>22466464
> But he is a man and affirms his identity as one while rejecting the roles men are given
It doesn't matter, he's still enjoying expressing traditionally female gender expressions
> Then you cant explain the picrel. He is trand and is nor expressing the characteristics of the other box.
Yes I can, he's enjoying expressing both boxes
> You confuse gender with gender roles, you can be a man and not follow the roles of the gender. It is social in expression, and arguably biological (neurological) in origin, it does not however imply comforming to tradition
Yes it does, hence why every aspect of the expression in the picture conforms to traditional gender roles
> If a man dresses like "a man" then he is upholding traditional gender roles. And you say if he dresses "like a woman" he is also upholding traditional gender roles.
Correct, both are expressions of traditional gender roles
> You seem to think he does this with the intention to signal to the gender norms as a negation of them (and thus in your words "playing the game") but why is zizeks "masculine" presentation not playing the game?
Because he doesn't claim to be subverting gender at all
> Why do you assume one is doing it naturally and the other is doing it as a statement.
I don't, the one you seem to think I'm saying is "only doing it as a statement" is literally just affirming traditional gender roles

There is no way to escape gender completely, the only way to subvert it is to kill yourself. At least Zizek understands this, unlike the trans people who appropriate the expressions of the opposite gender, masturbate over it hedonistically, and claim to be "subverting" those expressions.

Trans women saw that women are traditionally considered cute and precious and just wanted to also be that. If they retain traditional masculine aspects it's because they enjoy the traditional masculine aspects. vice versa for trans men. It's that simple

>>22466488
>Gender roles are socially constructed, a persons sense of gender identity is innate
That implies gender roles have nothing to do with their sense of gender identity, but I think they do. Isn't transitioning when you take on other gender roles? If not, what is it?

>>22466461
sex is about biological reproduction. sexual biological reproduction in mammals involve an egg being matched up with a sperm. there is nothing inbetween an egg and a sperm. a sex cell is either or.
sex is not assigned, sex is. in 99.99%+ of cases sex is unambigious at birth. in >00.1% of cases somekind of developmental accident has taken place supressing the expression of one or the other of sexual traits. there is still no sperg or erm. there is still no sex that's different from male or female.

Gender/sex (the same basically) exists on a biological level, in two binary codes, which through development of character alter in certain ways, never truly exiting their constraints.
It is similar to proper art - lightest shadows in a painting are still darker than darkest highlights.

A man, acting effeminate is still a man, though his nature is more soft-handed and a brash woman is still a woman despite her need for imposing herself.

There are constraints to gender, but they are flexible, while not being breakable.

That's a clarification.
sincerely

T.pierogi poster

>>22466502
It's usually done to stem gender dysmorphia, trans people are fine when they are alone and don't suffer from it when isolated (this is why so many trans people are online shut ins), transitioning, wearing different clothes and overall presenting as a different gender is done so society as a whole treats them as the gender they identify with because otherwise they suffer dysmorphia whenever they step outside. It would be like if you as a man were constantly treated like a woman for your entire life despite the fact that your own sense of identity does not identify as a man.
>>22466505
>sex is about biological reproduction
Ok, do women cease to be women if they get a hysterectomy?

>>22466520
If gender roles are purely social and sense of gender identity are purely biological then how could they possibly be related?

Let's say that the brain state for female is a, and the brain state for male is b.

Let's say the traditional gender roles for women are A, and for men are B.

If gender roles are then purely social, not objective or material, then how could a and A ever be linked, and the same for b and B?

If there is some kind of material, objective reason why a and A are linked, then A can't be regarded as purely social, since it's connected to something that is purely material.

>>22466529
>>22466520
To put it more precisely, I think you are getting confused between "innate sense of gender identity" and "the preference of certain gender roles over others"

People don't have an innate biological sense of gender identity, they simply have preferences, they prefer to express themselves using one set of traditional gender roles over another. That's what you're seeing encoded "neurologically", not any magical innate sense of identity

>>22466475
>>22466481
until a biological substrate for trannyism has been firmly identified and linked to xenohormones, trannyism should be treated as other examples of rapidly spiking pathologies such as anorexia a couple of decades ago. it should be treated as a social phenomenon.
>but the shift in hormonal makeup / distribution clearly would be grounds for someone to be mentally altered in their thinking or more susceptible to the social contagion aspects of the modern dilemma
this is way too vague and diffuse. microplastics cause low t so it makes a man irrational and more likely to troon out at 30 years old? or microplastics cause low t causing a lack of interest in sex and lessened exposure to porn, making him less likely to troon?

>>22466529
gender roles are tied directly to material conditions, the status of the woman has changed as societies conditions have changed, our own personal sense of self does not change, we all have our own sense of consciousness and humanity and identity that is independant to society.

>>22466541
That doesn't explain how the sense of gender identity gets linked to the gender roles in the first place, and how that link doesn't imply an objective biological connection

>>22466517
Whats the stuff inside? Mashed potatoes and something black. Anyways why not just put meat paste in it? I think it would be tastier

>>22466555
meat paste is the baseline, but some people for a change put mushrooms/sour cream and cheese/vegetables or even sweet ingredients into a pierogi.
No matter what you do, remember that it's still a pierogi and you have to love it with all your heart.
oh and don't put seafood in pierogi, this summons the poles who will break your arms.

Is transgenderism the result of personal sense of aesthetics conflicting with the current expectations of society? That's how it seems like to me. If so, is it better to change the expectations of society, or change yourself to fit into the expectations for validity?

>>22466520
>Ok, do women cease to be women if they get a hysterectomy?
trans really rests on this absolutely retarded gotcha argument as a cornerstone. whether a woman is in the moment actually producing eggs or not, it does not change the fact that that is what her body was designed to do. she still has for instance the skeletal structure of a woman, just as trannies will never have the skeletal structure of the opposite sex.

>>22466520
>constantly treated like a woman
it's impossible to take this seriously without affirming the most stereotypical 1950s type sexism. obviously that very much aligns with trans being a fetish for them. very regressive.
how do you treat a woman, in a context where her biology does not necessitate a particular treatment? you hold the doors for her and pay for her meal?

>>22466567
it is a result of beliving that making yourself adhere to different social standards will somehow make you happier than actually making your own self-imposed standards by which you live.

It is a result of a need to be seen, low knowledge about biological and social workings of pride and bravery and self-shame inherited from abusive family.

It could be cured, possibly by being nice to these subhumans, but I'd very much prefer if everyone belived that being trans is okay and wore rainbow apparitions to celebrate it, because it's easier to differentiate liars and arrogant idiots that way.

>>22466579
Right? Talk to any trans person and you will quickly notice they are extremely patriarchal. Trans woman want to be a women because women are hot, women are objects, women are used, women are protected, etc. Trans men want to be a man because men are brave, men are handsome, men are strong, men dominate, etc.

To be trans is to enjoy playing with these patriarchal dynamics.

>>22466571
> whether a woman is in the moment actually producing eggs or not, it does not change the fact that that is what her body was designed to do
what if they just naturally physically could not meet the function of their body? what if they were infertile?
>>22466579
> you hold the doors for her and pay for her meal?
No, more like society and every person they meet treats them as the gender they do not identify with.

>>22466587
>what if they just naturally physically could not meet the function of their body? what if they were infertile?
a sword, even blunt, is still a sword by it's merit, shape, material it is made out of and the manner of forging - all together.

>>22466596
we're not talking about sword we're talking about people who have their own sense of humanity and identity that is independent from your own personal standards.

>>22466600
people are made out of materials, thoughts, merits and beliefs.
Such things can be judged in an objective way, unlike emotions, belief or art.
Your statement is factually incorrect because you assume that people are intrinsically, only subjective.
and if you try to swing the other way and tell me that people aren't existing only objectively either, then I've got news: Objectivity and Subjectivity are a spectrum on which we judge things within our microcosms and as such are inseparable, while not transgressing into one another.

>>22466488
>they believe in grandmother trans neurons
Ok

>>22466609
That's great, doesn't change the fact that gender identity does not always correlate with biological gender. Neurological mismatches can happen the same way people are designed to breed but some are not attracted to people they can breed with. Because a persons identity does not always correlate with what they're designed to be.

>>22466587
>No, more like society and every person they meet treats them as the gender they do not identify with.
and it's impossible to make this concrete and sensible without going full stereotype sexism fetish
>don't bother your pretty little head with what goes on at the toxic masculinity factory, how are those cookies coming along sweetbuns?
>>22466600
which has nothing to do with sex.

>>22466628
>and it's impossible to make this concrete and sensible without going full stereotype sexism fetish
do you think every trans person looks like La Veneno?
>which has nothing to do with sex.
A persons sexual identity is a very core part of their identity

>>22466620
>doesn't change the fact
>fact
even if neurological mismatches happen, they are too few, far between and irregularly marked by not dependable factors which heavily vary. This makes them not in any way a valid categoy of The Human Sexuality Question but deviation from it.
If you wish to copulate with another of your own gender, you are not a Type of person, you are a Type of mentally atypical individual. As such, things as gender identity cannot and should not be recognized as official.
A broken sword, is not a type of a sword, but a tool that needs mending or trashing. That's a metaphor by the way ~ google what a metaphor is if you do not understand.

>>22466638
>even if neurological mismatches happen, they are too few, far between and irregularly marked by not dependable factors which heavily vary
Then literally every person in history who is not heterosexual and cisgender are all just flukes?

>>22466596
If a bowl is made full of holes at the bottom then its nature is more like a strainer than it is a bucket. Intersex women, are women regardles of their biology, so is every other woman
>>22466586
For sure anon, picrel is the face of patriarchal oppression, machismo personified.

>>22466643
>For sure anon, picrel is the face of patriarchal oppression, machismo personified.
If you look at the picture of the trans man you posted and see anything other than that you are genuinely insane

>>22466643
Picrel

>>22466649
Fuck!

>>22466637
>do you think every trans person looks like La Veneno?
non sequiteur.
>A persons sexual identity is a very core part of their identity
to fetishists.

>>22466293
OP btfo.

>>22466654
>to fetishists.
No to literally everybody, you are being a purposefully ignorant retard if you think a persons sexual identity isn't a big part of who they are

>>22466653
They are literally expressing traditionally feminine characteristics. How is this not patriarchal?

>>22466641
genome, as all things is fallible, but a genome that is within the fallible isn't the norm, it is a form outside the norm, marked by it's discrepancies.
Gay lions, penguins, mammals, birds or reptiles are all effects of "broken wiring" if you do understand what I'm saying. I'm not a mechanist, but conscious beings are at least partially mechanical, which means that they are fallible to physical conditioning.

>>22466660
Sex isn't everything, there is more to life than thoughts and actions.

>>22466643
I accept your notion.
Okay trans women are women. Go away now, you've won, I don't want to hear a single thing related to sex, especially from you from now on.

>>22466539
I was more suggesting that having a more feminine hormonal profile gets men to genuinely feel more feminine and less engaged with masculinity, thereby becoming more susceptible to second-guessing their own self image or being influenced by the social contagion elements. I'm also coming at it from the perspective that I do believe trans / gender-nonconforming ppl are a legitimate entity across history, just that the tech development of hrt and the social contagion of the modern variant (i.e. troons / sissies / misguided discord kids) has essentially hijacked and overshadowed what it originally was, as they were a very small anomalous group of people to begin with.

>>22466660
I mean, to us normal people we literally just accept it. Trans people seem to think that sex is the most important part of everyone's lives. No, it's just that trans people are more sex obsessed than normal people

>>22466660
it's complete nonsense. what is it that they actually identify as?
if women are not locked into a fixed social category, but can in fact be anything. lesbian, car mechanics, CEOs, boxers etc, then what does it mean to identify as a woman? to identify as someone with ovaries or a female skeleton or XY chromosomes even though you objectively have none of those things?

>>22466662
Anon thats a trans man

>>22466673
Okay, and? They are still using traditionally feminine characteristics, as defined by patriarchal society. What gender that person identifies as is literally irrelevant, they are still expressing themselves within traditional gender roles

>>22466663
>Gay lions, penguins, mammals, birds or reptiles are all effects of "broken wiring" if you do understand what I'm saying. I'm not a mechanist, but conscious beings are at least partially mechanical, which means that they are fallible to physical conditioning.
I never said it wasn't a mis match, it is, doesn't change the fact that its still happens
>Sex isn't everything, there is more to life than thoughts and actions.
a persons sexual identity is a pretty damn big part of their overall identity.
>>22466667
>I mean, to us normal people we literally just accept it
That's because you were born as the gender you identify with.
>>22466671
>it's complete nonsense. what is it that they actually identify as?
a gender that isn't their birth gender
> if women are not locked into a fixed social category, but can in fact be anything. lesbian, car mechanics, CEOs, boxers etc, then what does it mean to identify as a woman?
I would love to find out, hopefully we'll find out one day when men and women aren't locked into strict societal roles (not just gender roles) that they can't escape from. Then i guess we'll be able to explore what it truly means to be.
> to identify as someone with ovaries or a female skeleton or XY chromosomes even though you objectively have none of those things?
biological sex is still a thing, but that does not change the fact that the phenomenon of people identifying with a gender they were not born into is a thing

>>22466685
>That's because you were born as the gender you identify with.
I don't wank over the fact that I'm a man tho. Trans people literally brag about having "gender euphoria" i.e. "I'm really horny about being a girl"

>>22466694
it's not exactly my fault your only frame of reference for trans people is online perverts and provocateurs.

>>22466697
Even if I limit my criticism to just those ones it's still a huge number of them

>>22466702
it's not, not even close, only the internet poisoned think so

>>22466703
They're literally the only trans people that 99% of people on the planet have ever interacted with

>>22466708
have you ever tried talking to a trans person irl instead of finding some random on twitter?

>>22466685
>I would love to find out
So you don't actually know what it means but you're sure it's coherent and makes sense. There is nothing left to identify as if we rule out the biology and the socially contingent gender role.
The only thing that's left to think is that trans is based around rigid gender roles. That
>I identify as a woman
Actually means
>I want to see myself conforming to the stereotypical roles I associate with women

>>22466712
No, because they don't actually exist in normal peoples' lives

>>22466132
I never saw the point of becoming a woman. Why would I want to become lesser than I am now?

>>22466713
>There is nothing left to identify as if we rule out the biology and the socially contingent gender role
biological sex hasn't been ruled out and defining women based on a specific social role is inconsistent, do women not exist anymore since they've moved beyond juts being housewives? Trans people emulate the gender roles of that time so they are identified as that gender to avoid dysmorphia.
>>22466715
Then i guess you can continue living and treating entire groups as monoliths based on a handful of people

>>22466713
100%, that's what I meant above by the contradiction. Trans people, by flirting with social gender roles regardless of biology, are muddying the only thing that they care about. Eventually, if enough people are trans, the social gender roles will be merged and lose all meaning entirely. This is literally the worst thing that could happen to a trans person, whose entire identity is contingent on those roles they are subverting.

>>22466715
I beg to disagree I work with one

>>22466194
>In fact the way they define their identities as independent from biology or presentation or social roles is against the way traditional gender roles are formed

This is not what most trans individuals claim. In fact, most of the trans community would claim that this argument is transphobic. Trans identity is rooted in biology, since trans individual are born in bodies that don't match their brains. A MtF individual, for example, is someone who is born with a "female brain" but male anatomy. Hence why they need gender affirming surgery to bring their anatomical presentation into agreement with the structure and function of their brain. The entire problem arises because of a biological incongruity between one's reproductive anatomy and their neurological anatomy. If trans identity has no connection to biology, then it is meaningless to claim that trans individuals are "born that way" or "born in the wrong body" or "born with a brain that doesn't match their body", or any variant thereof.

>>22466722
>biological sex hasn't been ruled out
Identifying as having biological traits you don't have, would be psychosis or lying.
>everybody with ovaries, XX chromosomes, vaginas, female skeletons etc to the left side of the room

>do women not exist anymore since they've moved beyond juts being housewives?
No, women are what they've always been. Adult, female humans.

>>22466741
>Identifying as having biological traits you don't have, would be psychosis or lying.
trans people are acutely aware of what body parts they have, they don't claim to have a vagina when they don't they claim that they don't identify with their birth gender because they actually don't
> women are what they've always been. Adult, female humans
Yeah, but there are people who innately do not identify with what they're born as

>>22466731
>A MtF individual, for example, is someone who is born with a "female brain" but male anatomy
But this is objectively false since there is no gender module in the brain which is one or the other or something inbetween.

>>22466761
there is no male or female neuron but there is literal proof that trans people have very similar brain patterns with cisgender people of their identified gender especially in areas of the brain that have to do with how you perceive yourself.

>>22466770
Again, it's literally called having preferences. It doesn't mean that "femaleness" or "maleness" is somehow encoded in the brain

>>22466748
you've already admitted that you don't know what it actually means to say that someone identifies as a woman. I can't imagine what it even could mean other than 1) delusion about ones own biology or 2) fetishism.
that's the only two options.

>>22466773
except it literally is, if it was just a mild preference (rather than a core part of their being) then people would not be hanging themselves when they can't cope with it anymore. On a neurological level they are a gender that is not their own
>>22466778
or you can just look at the actual col evidence that shows that these people fundamentally do not identify with their birth gender.

>>22466781
Please explain to me how "core part of their being" is seen neuronally different to a strong preference
> people would not be hanging themselves when they can't cope with it anymore.
People absolutely hang themselves due to preferences. Do you think that means those preferences are materially encoded in the brain?

>>22466781
how can there be evidence for something if you don't even know what that something means? that's literally nonsensical.
>we don't know what sentence X means, or even possibly could mean, but we have evidence that sentence X is in fact a true sentence
>>22466770
doubt

>suicide
trannies are known for typically having a bunch of other mental illnesses too like depression, schizophrenia or bipolar. in addition it doesn't seem like the transgender treatment of hormones and frankenstein surgeries would make someone less suicidal.
>there is no good evidence that medical transitioning actually improves health outcomes in the long term

>>22466784
>Please explain to me how "core part of their being" is seen neuronally different to a strong preference
Because the patterns are primarily in sections of the brain associated with motor functions and behavioral functions,
>>22466794
people know what biologically male or female means, however there are people who do not identify with the gender they were born as.
> doubt
There been multiple studies for years at this point that have found this to be true.
> The present MRI study of 54 hormone naive transmen (TrM), 38 transwomen (TrW), 44 cismen and 41 ciswomen show that cortical gyrification, a metric that reflects early maturation of cerebral cortex, is significantly lower in transgender compared with cisgender participants. This reduction is limited to the occipito-parietal cortex and the sensory motor cortex, regions encoding own body image and body ownership. Moreover, the cortical gyrification correlated inversely with own body-self incongruence in these regions. These novel data suggest that GI in TGI may originate in the neurodevelopment of body image encoding regions. The results add potentially to understanding neurobiological contributors to gender identity.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8324983/
You can of course just ignore it if you want, bigotry generally is is a political program, immune to anything as meager as scientific evidence.

>>22466437
Yes brain matter correlates with characteristics of people and their personalities, this doesn't mean that whatever part of the brain is the "gender organ". You can not measure parts of the brain to tell what someone identifies as, anymore than you I can measure your brain to figure out what your favorite video game is. But there might be characteristics more common in FPS fans than RTS fans for example. You forget that the brain is more than neural structure and size, but also processes that happen in it, and ideas that interact in complex ways.
>>22466464
How can you identify as a man if you don't identify with the social roles of a man? It's like saying that your cat is a dog that defies all characteristics of being a dog. Gender roles are measurable, observable, real things. "Gender" on its own isn't. You can identify with gender roles, but you can't identify with "gender". You can eat a McDonalds cheeseburger, but you can't eat "a McDonalds".

>>22466802
> Because the patterns are primarily in sections of the brain associated with motor functions and behavioral functions,
And preferences are stored somewhere else?

Also, how does this prove that gender identity is known biologically by the brain?

>>22466809
>Also, how does this prove that gender identity is known biologically by the brain?
because through the physical sciences society has identified which parts of the brain are responsible fo which parts of bodily function

>>22466812
How is "gender identity" a part of bodily function? I thought it was related to social expression?

>>22466132
Everyone already knows about commietrannies.

>>22466802
so now you're just stuck at repeating slogans instead of even attempting to explain what the meaning of
>identifying as a woman
could possibly mean other than fetishism.
that study finds a difference between troons and normal people as groups. it doesn't find a difference between mtf & women on one side and ftm and men on the other side.

>>22466830
the study specifically finds that trans people have the same neurological patterns as cis people of their identified gender, meaning that they on a neurological level identify as that gender the same way that cis people do

>>22466840
You have no idea what you're talking about. That's why you are repeating the same irrelevant thing while ignoring all the questions posed to you

It's just biomedical transhumanism disguised as civil rights.

>>22466848
how is scientific proof that trans people neurologically don't identify with their birth gender irrelevant?

You are lying mainly to yourself. Know that you are nothing but a source of revenue, trannygolem, no one gives a shit about you, not even your rancid, fellow troons. Kill yourself.

>>22466132
>Mental illness with a ideology for the mentally ill
Whew lad.

>>22466840
literally directly contradicts that
>This is a departure from a previous model of sex atypical cerebral dimorphism, introducing a concept that better accords with a core feature of TGI.
>The present MRI study of 54 hormone naive transmen (TrM), 38 transwomen (TrW), 44 cismen and 41 ciswomen show that cortical gyrification, a metric that reflects early maturation of cerebral cortex, is significantly lower in transgender compared with cisgender participants

>>22466859
Because it doesn't answer the questions being posed to you. You're either completely retarded or purposefully being disingenuous

>For many decades, the prevailing etiological hypothesis has been that GI results from an alteration in the “normative” or sex-typical psychosexual development (Zucker et al. 2016) and that in transgender persons, the sex differentiation of the brain is opposed to the genitals (Swaab and Garcia-Falgueras 2009). This theory, however, has not been substantiated in brain imaging and behavioral studies of trans women (TrW), (persons who are assigned as males at birth, but identify as women)

>>22466488
You're getting this backwards. The brain structure does not show "gender identity". The person expresses some "gender identity" and their is some correlation in brain structure. This doesn't even mean that "gender identity" is a valid concept, it means there is some neurological characteristic that correlates with transgenderism. It has nothing to do with gender identity (an incoherent concept), it probably has to do with body image or some prenatal hormone effect, something like that, I would imagine. Do you think gender identity just means sex characteristics in the brain? If
>>22466885
is right, its not a sex characteristic thing. consider also many gay men have "more feminine" brains, does that make their gender identity = woman?

This book is going to end the trans debate when it comes out

The queer theory feminists are right about one thing: gender is what you do. It's a performance. It's not dictated by nature. But then they jump to the idea that people should be allowed to behave as they see fit. They should perform in whatever way they choose without anyone dictating to them anything. There ought to be no rule but the rule of self-legislation, a contradiction. This is the part where everything goes wrong. It's pretty obvious that society can't just let people do as they will. We need a virtue ethics of gender, where roles aren't a dirty word, not some vapid liberal hedonism which is what the tranny movement stands for.

>>22466380
Good job picking up on that. This is one of the major problems that makes this writing completely at odds with Marxism. The whole point in Marx’s writings is that Capitalism eroded things such as the family and traditional morality in order to turn people into atomized working objects. Even though Marx wrote about abolishing the family, the natural tendencies of Capitalism as laid out in his writings entirely contradict the idea that the family sustains Capitalism or is inherently related to it. Many a reader has been filtered by the idea that Capitalism is not a “traditional” mode of being, it is a modern, radical form of economy and societal construction, and is only traditional when seen from the next stage of material development (and only “traditional” because it has to become a tradition in order to become a dominant societal mode).

Marx considered trannies pedophiles

>>22466856
Someone gets it.

It's also apologetics for all the mutations we'll have to endure thanks to the pollution.

>>22467819
Communist wanted to abolish the family and class as well as gender roles.

Transgenders are actually radical traditionalists and why there is so much crossover between the extreme right and transgender.

>>22466132
I much prefer the opposite

>>22466132
most trannoids would die quickly in communism, need high grade pharmaceuticals, need frivolous cosmetic surgeries, spend most of their time on social media, few willing to work with them while they are hesitant to depend on others... I doesn't make sense

>>22466152
you're looking at it too broadly, gender fluidity already covers that ability to switch or be in grey area and you can be validated no matter what you do by some group... some are just adamant on being a MAN or WOMAN for the delusion and contrarianism

>>22468063
Deranged.

Some tranniea are hot, and I want to fuck them.

>>22467724
It doesn't matter anyway because their hedonism reinforces the patriarchal gender expressions rather than subverting them. Really they are the ultimate conservative movement, one that recognises the problems with the past but supports and enjoys them regardless.

The alternative, saying a woman is manly and a man is womanly, does not work either, since immediately you are just expressing the traditional gender roles in exactly the same performance, but reversed. Anyone who is not in on your game will just see you as performing the traditional gender roles traditionally. Anyone who is in on it will see the same, but just have a theoretical explanation to delude themselves into thinking there is some difference other than a simple replacement of words.

I have no problem with trans people enjoying the gender of the other, but it is in no way subversive, and it even reinforces traditional gender roles.

>>22468677
They've also hollowed out and narrowed down gender. e.g. it was possible for a woman to be interested in very male activities, not want to hang out with women, dress in male clothing, and still identify and be recognized as female. But today, those people are more likely to be labelled non-binary or trans. So the old gender category of women used to be more broad and inclusive, but is now becoming narrower and narrower to the point "woman" will just be the stereotype of a bored 50s housewife.

>>22466132
I know chuds hate trannies and are ostracised for it but I honestly wonder why TERFs are so demonized by society. They're just trying to protect their sacred feminine areas from being invaded by biological men, what's wrong with that?

>>22469094
Yep. Even look at the fashion that trans women instinctively pick: long straight hair with frumpy old dresses. They don't even pick the stereotype of a glamourous woman, but of an oppressed woman, because their idea of a woman is "to be oppressed and humiliated". They just secretly want to be dominated

>>22466132
>'ve seen several people in my city reading it lately.
lol

>>22469136
Lol yeah, this is totally how normal people talk, and is totally legit

>>22466731
>If trans identity has no connection to biology, then it is meaningless to claim that trans individuals are "born that way" or "born in the wrong body" or "born with a brain that doesn't match their body", or any variant thereof.
Yes, that is precisely the reason trannies are fucking delusional morons, thanks for noticing

>>22466132
It looks good OP :3
Sorry lit is full of incels and pro-war buffs

>bait this bad
have a you
>>22469602

>>22469098
Because they are the same group. This is at the "let women speak" rally

>>22469666
Yep jk rowling is a seriously hardcore neo nazi. That one podcast she did with the blood tribe people... even I thought those comments about jewish children were too extreme

>>22469666
When guilt-by-association is your entire modus operandi

>>22466620
People with asperges are vastly more common than people who are trans.

The surgery done for trans-sex is equivalent to lobotomization. It is the removal of healthy organs which affect the brain in order to supposedly improve a mental condition, though most long term studies find that around year 7 or 8 almost all who have done so engage in severe regret and/or depression with suicide rates higher than any group which has not undergone this 'treatment.'

>>22466132
It's a book about people with severe identity illnesses or sexual illnesses (as much of male-to-female is actually gynephilia, an attraction to femininity, usually also a desire for attention) and an absolutely evil ideology that has killed millions created by narcissist materialists.

>>22466620
That's fine, but it doesn't *make* them women. You are what you are materially.

>>22469805
Can you find the studies you're referring to? I'm curious.

>>22466132
I probably won't read it, I prefer Marxist concepts of transgenderism to transgender concepts of Marxism.

Anyway:
>contemporary medicine corroborates the contemporary anthropology/history's observations on sexual minorities (e.g. trans people)
There's more to it but for the most part it's a pretty willful blunder to deny the existence of trans people and even more embarassing when you need to concoct some cabal in order to do so. sage

>>22466194
they erode them by engaging in farces of them, which in a way affirms the original. You know what anon meant

>>22466289
>people with gender dysphoria have shown signs of gender dysphoria as per this research
Anon...
>complaining about bigotry and being passive aggressive
Tsk, tsk. Anon...

>>22466186
Unironically very well written, but comes across too flowery and sensational for a theory book. Author should do fiction

>>22470155
it emulates the marxist style quite well.
it's the same formula of being charismatic and confident in what you're saying, while it is absolute nonsense.
works well to captivate fools.

>>22469939
probably unrelated to the post but making use of a mention
>modern "medicine"
world is full of doctors that would do anything for cash. remember when tobacco was seen as healthy until the facade was impossible to maintain.

>>22469666
>falseflagging this hard
next they'll scream racial slurs.

>>22470193
Nah bro you don't understand. 7 guys in bucket hats did an offensive gesture. That means the government needs stronger control over public expression.
Don't ask about the "youth" gangs mugging school kids in melbourne, though. That's just part of living in a thriving multicultural city.

>>22466152
you posted cringe