/lit/ - Literature

1. HOMER
2. AESCHYLUS
3. EURIPIDES

McCarthy and Morrison are close. I don't think anyone so consistently and comprehensively explores every facet of fiction. Everyone else gets varying degrees of a participation award.

>>22433504
>McCarthy and Morrison

>>22433538
He is saying that because I made a thread calling McCarthy pleb and dilettante for shitting on a much superior writer so now he and the other jackasses of this board are going full defense mode.

>>22433541
>being this obsessed with a writer you never read
French Homosexual fraud is still trash. You are a manchild.

>>22433541
Proust couldn't lick the shit off McCarthy's cowboy boots.

>>22433504
lol

>>22433504
lmao, fiction in general can really rot the brain, doesn’t it? Zoomers are beyond saving.

>>22433384
Yes, and I'm genuinely shocked people only read the Songs of Innocence and Experience and the Marriage of Heaven and Hell. His real kino are his big three prophecies.

Personally, I don't think anyone beats Shakespeare as a yarn-spinner nor as a writer of characters, but there are poets just as, if not better, than him.
>>22433385
No, but still great
>>22433504
lmao
>>22433520
I wanted to like him, but no. His prosody is wonky and he relies too heavily on conceit to convey an image. He can be pretty repetitive too.
>>22433541
There are infinitely better French works out there. Proust is decadent lit for normies who never heard of it and are only familiar with great books that you find with a quick google search.
>>22433603
Nice meme

>Peer Gynt is a redemption drama, and indeed, just to admit this right away, it is one of the greatest. It is deeper and more comprehensive than any of Shakespeare's, without being any less beautiful; in the significance of its conception it is the equal of, and in the power of its execution it is far above, Goethe's Faust

>>22433918
You complain about normies yet you use the most normalfaggy word for normals. I am very intelligent.

>>22433384
1. John Donne
2. John Donne
3. John Donne

>>22433918
>reading Blake
his art is kino too

>>22433918
>Blake's prophetic books
Is it necessary to read these in order? Because I want to skip to Milton and Jerusalem.

>>22434022
Semantics is for homosexual yids
>>22434166
Yes. Each prophecy is a refinement or expansion of the stuff from the previous prophecy. Also, you'll want to read Vala, or the Four Zoas before Milton

>>22434185
>Semantics

>>22434166
>I want to skip Jerusalem
Why would you skip one of his greatest works? Even Blake himself spoke highly of it.

In his letter to Mr. Butts, Blake spoke of Jerusalem, saying: "I can praise it because I dare not pretend to be anything other than the secretary whose authors are in heaven. It's the grandest poem this world contains, for the spirit of truth dictated it morning after morning, sometimes twelve, sometimes twenty or fifty lines at a time. What now seems to be the labor of a long life was produced without labor or study and quite often against my will."

>>22433504
Toni Morrison?

>>22435063
chicken fella

>>22433951
who said that?

>>22435387
Otto Weininger

Poets:

Dante
Poe
Milton

Drama:

Aeschylus
Sophocles
Euripides
Wagner

Language:

Joyce
Melville

>>22436516
>joyce
>melville
Lol

>>22433384
Possibly the only writer you could have chosen to make this thread acceptable (Homer would be too obvious, Dante too different to really compare). Not sure I agree but I respect it.

>>22433918
>>22436516
Both Milton and Spenser do deserve more recognition, but no, not in a million years, sorry. Melville and Poe definitely not. Joyce is an interesting one, I would never choose to read him over Shakespeare but he's obviously a more advanced and sophisticated version of something broadly similar.

>>22433384
Homer, Aeschylus, Dante and Lope de Vega. Pindar, Aristophanes, Sophocles, Calderon, Moliere, Schiller and Goethe are all great poets, but they're not Shakespeare level.

Don't know about better, but he is as talented with words and imagery. No amount of seethe will disprove that.

>>22433384
For me it’s the J writer. I still stick with the notion that Exodus, Genesis and Numbers are undoubtedly written by a highly placed woman in the court of Solomon. The attitude, the stance, the point of view is entirely that of a very highly placed and very sophisticated and very ironical woman indeed.

>>22433384

>>22437054
Yes, they are above his level (except Schiller)

>>22437195
>*holds up spork*

Sorry lads, but the Greek tragedians, Milton and Dante can't write comedy. Melville and McCarthy can't write women. Blake can write neither comedy nor women. Wagner can't write.

>>22437459
Blake wrote a satire doe. Not sure if it was any good at all. And Dante's most famous work was actually a comedy - *the* comedy, in fact!

>>22437459
>Sorry lads, but the Greek tragedians, Milton and Dante can't write comedy.
So? It's about who writes better not about who writes worse but in more genres. Dumb faggot.

>>22433918
>I don't think anyone beats Shakespeare as a yarn-spinner nor as a writer of characters, but there are poets just as, if not better, than him.
Milton mogs him in mastery of English, but Shakespeare was a superior storyteller.

>>22437699
A writer who masters tragedy and comedy is superior, more universal, more myriad-minded, than a writer who only masters one.

>>22433780
>>22433541
McCarthy did not shit on Proust. He expressed his personal taste.

>>22437718
Lol no. Milton is Dante for casuls.

>>22437840
Not if he's a worse writer you pathetic low IQ pseud

>>22437861
If he was a worse writer he wouldn't have mastered it, would he? Shakespeare has mastered both, so is superior to any writer who only mastered one. QED

This thread is a mess

>>22437190
Only correct answer in the thread

>>22433384
Easily.

>>22437917
Shakespeare's tragedies are awful, he only mastered the English language. Sophocles "mastered" tragedies as a form but was a worse writer than the other 2. You're simply to low IQ to take part in this conversation.

>>22437459
Since when can Shakespeare write comedy?
Do you actually laugh at his jokes?
Anyway, Graham Greene can write all of that. Doesn't mean he's a great writer.

>>22437718
What stories did he tell?
He mostly stole them, and the structure of his plays is not very good.

>>22438192
>Sophocles "mastered" tragedies as a form but was a worse writer than the other 2
Do you know Greek?

>>22437054
Dante is above Shakespeare. Nothing Shakespeare wrote is on the level of the comedy.

>>22438436
Shakespeare's comedies >>>> Shakespeare's tragedies

Writing comedies is not the same as mastering comedy.

Shakespeare's tragedies and historical dramas can be very good, but his comedies are mediocre. There is little in them, with few exceptions like The Tempest, but those are not comedies other than in the same sense Dante's is. Shakespeare mastered fantasy more than comedy. In his works we find an Ovid, not an Aristophanes.
Works like The Comedy of Errors, The Taming of the Shrew etc. would have been more or less forgotten if not for the man who wrote them. They are too long, the humor is cheap, the characters and scenes repeat themselves -- always drunkards, always c**ks, always in the taverns or dressing themselves as women, etc. The same devices that were all too typical at the time.
Molière mastered comedy. Shakespeare did not.

>>22438449
No, but maybe I agree about his fantasies. The Tempest is perhaps my favorite play of his.

>>22438508
Damn man shut your stupid mouth up, you're the worst poster on this board

>>22437459
> McCarthy can't write women
Why is McDonald’s even in this discussion? lol
Anyway, he wrote a schizoid jewess and a tranny in his last one. Those are women, chud!

>>22438542
This ESL retard's whore mom takes niggercock. He has to cope by posting trannies and homos

>>22438527
You have no arguments, you cannot think clearly, and have trouble defining your concepts. Your vision is all confused. You breath in conceptual mud.

>>22438575
Reread the first sentence of your post.
Consider that you actually stopped to write that.
Then tell me, why should anyone respect America and the Anglophone world in general?

>>22438508
>The Comedy of Errors, The Taming of the Shrew
commonly held as highlights

>>22438614
Every post you make is more and more retarded, you should never try to engage in complex topics

>>22438621
By whom, if not by bardolaters themselves?

>>22438626
What do you even know about complex topics, monolingual imbecile?

>>22438642
It's something you unlock when your IQ is 130+, so it's something you'll never experience first-hand

>>22438642
>By whom
I was using a certain rhetorical mode that people of a certain neurological bent are known to struggle with.

>>22438656
>>22438669
You have no clarity, no arguments. All of your thinking about literature is based on pseudo-philosophical babble deriving ultimately from Romantic criticism and that which inspired them. There is no rigor in it at all.

>>22438715
ChatGPT tier

>>22438715
>everything is a debate
uninternet thy brain

>>22438737
Every aesthetic judgement needs to be reasoned. You need to be clear about your (ultimately subjective, though subjectivity can be critically analyzed too) standards, and specially about your definitions, and proceed from there.
You will rarely see bardolaters like Harold Bloom (I don't care about you, you're just a tool of Bloom's influence) doing that. They have no rigor, they're worse than the post-War French.
Compare it with a genuine critics like Aristotle, Horace, Dante or Leopardi and the difference is striking. Those great men wrote in clear prose, were clear about their definitions, had immense erudition of the good (fruitful) kind, and knew how to reason. In English you occasionally see some of it (I am not anti-Anglo), but most commonly it's romantic babble.

>>22438791
>jews hate clarity and logic
Whoah

>>22437854
They’re very very different, similarities are only superficial.