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File: 279 KB, 1280x971, Alcibades_being_taught_by_Socrates,_François-André_Vincent.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22426191 No.22426191 [Reply] [Original]

What were the relationships between males in ancient greece like, for example between Socrates and Alcibiades. Were they like a deep friend- and mentorship or was it similar to a gay Christopher Street Day poz party?

>> No.22426303

bump

>> No.22427378

>>22426191
bemp

>> No.22427751

>>22426191
I'd say more platonic amongst themselves, except maybe glaucon, I always felt the impression he could suck some serious dick. As far as outward facing goes it was probably as much buttfucking as they could manage and who can blame them honestly.

>> No.22427766

>>22426191
This subject is explored brilliantly in the Symposium by Plato. Basically, until the younger males grew beard, they were "pursued" by the lover, or the older man, as a compensation for parting his education to the younger one.
Sexual relations were not necessary, though common.

>> No.22428872

>>22426191
>>22427766
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNAT4ybsz_E&t=4s
you're not entirely wrong but i dont think it was as common as you are implying

>> No.22429017
File: 37 KB, 600x471, Socrates_in_Battle_of_Potidaea_protecting_Alcibiades_(Basin).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22429017

>>22426191
They saved each other's lives in the Peloponnesian War.

>> No.22429385

>>22428872
Very interesting video. Thanks for posting.

>> No.22429565

>>22426191
they were twink bfs who owned blajah's and cuddled >:]

>> No.22429690
File: 182 KB, 799x742, 235354.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22429690

There are fujoshi who actually ship Socrates/Alcibiades and make art of them.

>> No.22430181

>>22429690
Fujoshis understanding the greek spirit

>> No.22430791

Socrates (pbuh) was above hylic desires like that, OP. platonism and philosophy is just western vedanta. the dialogues do not make sense otherwise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQXK-BMLgmc

>> No.22431815

>>22430791
Thank you for posting, anon. I'll probably have to listen to it again but it's a very impressive video.

>> No.22432740
File: 165 KB, 840x709, apu thumbs up.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22432740

>>22431815

>> No.22433755

>>22428872
I remember that guy leaves shit out when it goes against his ideas however. I skimmed to the Alexander the great part and he completely ignores the Bagoas kiss part of Plutarch.

>It is said that one day, after he had drunk well, he went to watch some contests in dancing and singing and that his favourite Bagoas (the guy from Darius' persian court) won the prize; thereupon the young man came
across the theatre, still in his performer's costume and wearing his
crown as victor, and seated himself beside the king. At the sight the
Macedonians applauded loudly and shouted to Alexander to kiss the
winner, until at last the king put his arms around him and kissed him.

Plus the whole reason Phillip II died was that his bodyguard (and ex lover) killed him after Phillip's buddies raped him. It was probably still less gay than society is today though, no marriages and stuff like that.

>> No.22434458
File: 8 KB, 300x168, 53253535.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22434458

>only now realize that the angel to the right is supposed to be Socrates' daimon

>> No.22434697

>>22426191
This helmet looks so cool

>> No.22435582
File: 90 KB, 640x640, 1656999350737.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22435582

>>22433755
cant a king just give one of his subjects a little smooch? doesnt mean he is a homo

>> No.22436681

>>22433755
lol, isn't the second part of what you posted literally a made up scene in the Alexander movie? iirc no one knows why he got assassinated

>> No.22436706

>>22426191
Socrates was a lustful homo who tried to pursue Alcibiades and got rejected. Plato, another homo-pedo, inverted the story.

>> No.22437040

>>22433755
Italian men kiss eachother when greeting all the time, it has nothing to do with being homo. Why can't he get a little victory kiss

>> No.22437045

>>22436706
It depends on the dialogue. There is more overtly sexual talk in First Alcibiades, which isnt really remembered today because it was unfairly disparaged as spurious by Thrasyllus three hundred years after the dialogue was written.

>> No.22437053

>>22436681
it's a section from Plutarch's lives. All the sources put the blame on an issue relating to Attalus, Pausanias, and Phillip.

>>22437040
>>22435582
They don't put their arms around the dude and kiss though, plus Bagoas is called his favorite, and the italian kisses aren't done as a coda to a favorite winning a contest. Another translation I read added that Alexander "kissed [Bagoas] tenderly".

>> No.22437088
File: 110 KB, 1010x882, phillip ii assasination reasons diodorious .png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22437088

>>22436681
Oh whoops my bad, my mistake, I thought you were talking about the kiss between Alex and Bagoas. But yeh, nah, the Oliver Stone was meticulously researched and was an adaption of many of the ancient sources, he didn't make stuff up other than explictly portraying Alex and Hephastion as gay for each other (it's a reach I admit). Here's Diodorus Siculus' account of what happened. Mind you that they took from sources that we no longer have. It definitely wasn't made up by Oliver Stone though.

>> No.22438233

Anyone know youtube channels that give a good and neutral commentary on Plato's dialogues?

>> No.22438847

>>22438233
>>22430791
.

>> No.22438853

>>22430791
>pbuh
Fuck you bloody