/lit/ - Literature

Someone who hasn't read a lot of books.

someone who posts sneed on /tv/ every day

>>22385077
Someone with SOVL

Very hairy knuckles

>>22385087
>>22385088
>>22385097

Hegelian dialectics

Little read yet highly opinionated

>>22385077
70+ years old
Around here people of that generation were raised on the greek tales and usually have a lot of sentimentality for them

>>22385077

>he hasn't spend the past 7 years struggling back to his love after winning a hopeless war he didn't want to fight and the only solace he found was in the arms of a skanky witch
I bet your bow can be drawn by other men.

>>22385221
>>22385087
>look i have read a lot of books

>>22385077
Socrates in the Hippias Minor dialogue. A highly crafty individual who thinks himself cunning and sneaky and wants to seem deeper and wiser than the “lowbrow” simpletons who prefer classic heroes like Achilleus.

>>22385475
Imagine getting filtered by the Hippias and not realizing that Socrates was just taking the piss of Hippias with that shit argument of the better runner, he was just memeing Hippias to see if Hippias was able to defend his position

>>22385077
/lit/ browser who was convinced to start with the Greeks, read 1/8th of The Iliad before giving up, managed to get halfway through The Odyssey before giving up, and is now totally disinterested in finishing either one but also fears reading the Western canon in non-chronological order (it wouldn't be "the proper way") and so refuses to read any other non-genre fiction books until he finishes The Odyssey (he never will)

>>22385488
Most of his argumentation boils down to semantics and wordplay. Achilles’ threatening to do something and not following through hardly counts as a “lie” in the traditional sense as he intended to do it in the heat of the moment. He did intend to leave on the beaked ships when he said that line so it hardly counts as a lie. The same way if you forget to follow through on a promise it isn’t really a lie but just forgetfulness. It doesn’t count to pick faults in others when it is a “shit argument” in your own words.

>>22385495
Me with the Bible for ten and a half years.

>>22385495
Is this you anon..?

>>22385495
This post is suspiciously specific.

>>22385497
Thanks for that non needed nor asked summary anyway it's Hippias fault for not getting it, Socrates never give you the facts in your face like that (at least not in the young period of Plato) he try to lead his interlocutor to the truth, Hippias failed but you got it, congratulation

>>22385521
But that isn’t a summary. It is the reasoning of why Socrates is incorrect to call what Achilles did lying. Socrates bending words around isn’t some gotcha of Hippias

>>22385530
There's a lot of Plato dialog where you need to poke hole in Socrates arguments to reveal the truth or they end in aporia for example Hippias, Laches, Charmides, Lysis, Euthyphro, try to view that like an exercice to the reader, Socrates talk about the problem of you can't choose your reader in the Phedrus, i think that it is his way of filtering his reader, by letting the retards in aporia while the chosen one will get it

>>22385547
Lysis is the only one you mentioned where there are blatant holes to be picked in Socrates reasoning (your beauty means the one desiring you is your friend since they receive goodness from your beauty). The rest of those are pretty straight forward. There are no holes to be picked in Euthyphro for instance.

>>22385547
Actually to elucidate, my opinion of Hippias is deeper than I initially let on. I don’t believe he was trying to poke flaws in his (Socrates) own reasoning. I think he was trying to show you that those who commit evil deeds intentionally are more likely to be led to the truth than those who can not tell right from wrong to begin with. The Odyssey as a text is a springboard for him to display how intentional sinners so to speak can be led to truth.

>>22385558
In Euthyphro Socrates deliberately switch the argument of Euthyphron when Euthyphro say that being pious is servicing the gods, Euthyphro arguments imply the service of a slave to his master which is done only to please, Socrates switch it to a service that imply that the service is like an exchange between the gods and mortals, euthyphro fail to see this and agree that the service to gods is like some barter with them

>>22385587
Personally i think that Socrates was in agreement with Hippias but wanted to test Hippias to see if what he said was a true opinion but reasonless opinion or a true opinion with reason, i don’t see why he would side with Odysseus after reading the rest of the corpus of Plato

>>22385599
Another way to read it is Socrates saying “YOU (Hippias) teaching incorrect religion and philosophy is worse than someone who knows the correct path but INTENTIONALLY chooses wrong.” That is what I love about Plato. You can get multiple ideas out of the same text. I believe Hippias Minor is much more about Sophist practices than about Homer’s rhetoric skill so in that regard, I agree with you.

>>22385610
I think it is also how Socrates and Hippias see what is knowledge, or what purpose does knowledge have in Hippias case if Sophia is just technical like a man is better because he have some expertise on a subject then Odysseus is clearly better than Achilles but if Sophia is like Socrates think which is not technical but ethical then the better man is not the one that have an expertise but the one that conduct himself according to virtue and in this case Achilles is the better man

>>22385077
Someone who read it for highschool and it sticked with them through time

>>22385861
The loyal one.

>>22385077

>>22385077
A man of many ways

>>22385077
A man of twists and turns

>>22385077
A complicated man

>>22385465
If you are talking about Paris I swear to god.
>>22385077
A good guy with a surface-level interest in literature. Mostly because those have been the people I've encountered.

>>22385077
Me

>>22385077
Unmarried, childless.

>>22385077

boring and homosexual (maybe still closeted).

>>22385110
Fichtian, pseud.

>>22385495
It's over

>>22385077
I think you have to be older to truly appreciate it, and you have to have struggled. But it’s not exactly super realistic either so idk, I think there are other more “relatable” narratives dealing with the same themes - I guess a combination of the aforementioned experiences with enough of a detached approach to literature that he prefers a more archetypal treatment of the story? I’d be interested to hear from someone who actually does consider it their favorite. It (taken as a whole with the Iliad) is one of my “favorites”, but more in the sense of appreciation and literary sensibility than direct personal affection

I picture a young man, late teens or early 20s, who is starting his literary journey. He has many great books ahead of him. No doubt will his favourite book change in the future, but this is a great starting point.

>>22385077
Well you're literally me, someone with good taste of course.

>>22386672
Nigga, it wasn't "muh thesis, antithesis and synthesis"
Is the passage from innocence, the negation and the return to the original condition with the enrichment of the dialetical movement

>>22385077
Someone who should have pushed through book 2 of the Iliad.

>>22386990
One day I'll read that book.

>>22385077
Should have stipulated that those with derogatory assumptions also list their favorite book

>t. favorite book is the odyssey

>>22385077
Fond of hyperbole
>Odysseus? Literally me..
And horror movies too, probably, particularly from the 70's and 80's

>>22385077
Someone who may be a little young and is highly enthusiastic about the classics. Not necessarily a bad thing, but they do have a little ways to go in terms of reading.

>>22385077
Someone who probably has nothing to say about books, if I asked this planning to chat books with them I'd probably change the subject

>>22385077
Someone based. The Odyssey is pretty cool but few people give it a chance or get filtered by the second book

>>22386724
>>22387796
>>22387960
All these condescending assumptions are super weird (though maybe correct in a strictly realistic/statistical sense). The Epic Cycle’s dramatic/aesthetic acumen is sophisticated and developed while still maintaining a salutary sort of naive purity in certain aspects. With almost every book that I’ve read after reading it, I’ve only come to appreciate it more in comparison. It is undeniably massive and towering and the idea that anyone would imply that it’s somehow “basic” is truly absurd to me, and smacks of received opinion (received from the wrong people, that is, because most who actually know what they’re talking about agree completely with what I’m saying).

>>22385077
A cool guy

>>22389564
>though maybe correct in a strictly realistic/statistical sense

You miss the underlying context in the question "What is your favourite book?" where the answerer is meant to give some sort of indication of the type of reader they are and what they value in literature. In a literal sense you're right though.

>>22385077
A Greek nationalist who lives in the US (or maybe Canada). You like soccer a little too much and throw things when your team loses. Gets drunk and talks about jumping Turks but knows that he'd get his shit kicked in if he tried because he's a DYEL

>>22389914
I get that, it just seems like a case where there are various possible answers and everyone picked the least interesting one because it was the easiest/least charitable. Mostly I just want to countersignal the implied judgment of the work itself so newfags don’t assimilate it as fact.

Not as cool as if they said "The Night Land"

>>22385077
sumthin like this

>>22385077
An old middle-class man who rambles about the reading he did in college back in the 1950s

>>22389564
I see your point, and I understand what you mean. I studied classics a bit in college, so I definitely understand how important and almost monolithic the Epic Cycle is. At the same time, however, >>22389914 makes the point I'd like to make.

>>22385077
…there is an idea of a The Odyssey reader, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real one, only an entity, something illusory, and though one can hide his cold gaze and you can shake his hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense his lifestyles is probably comparable: he simply is not there. It is hard for him to make sense on any given level. He is fabricated, an aberration. He is a noncontingent human being. His personality is sketchy and unformed, his heartlessness goes deep and is persistent. His conscience, his pity, his hopes disappeared a long time ago if they ever did exist. There are no more barriers to cross. All he has in common with are the uncontrollable and the insane, the vicious and the evil, all the mayhem he has caused and his utter indifference toward it, he has now surpassed. He still, though, holds on to one single bleak truth: no one is safe, nothing is redeemed. Yet he is blameless. Each model of human behavior must be assumed to have some validity. Is evil something he is? Or is it something he does? His pain is constant and sharp and he does not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact, he wants his pain to be inflicted on others. He wants no one to escape. But even after admitting this—and he has countless times, in just about every act he's committed—and coming face-to-face with these truths, there is no catharsis. He gains no deeper knowledge about himself, no new understanding can be extracted from any story telling. There has been no reason for him to tell you any of this. This confession has meant nothing…

t. Odyssey reader

>>22385077
Someone who uses a statue as their pfp on every social media site.

>>22385488
i mean, not really. all that comes back in Ion and The Republic

>>22385495
I don’t care about other people’s chronological order but I was reading the Bible and plan on reading a good amount of other books afterward. I still haven’t finished the Bible cuz I’m a freaking bum. At least a read a couple before that though.

You shouldn’t care about others chronological order. It probably just would limit you. I mean it’s not like a linear story or some shit anyway. Just different ideas.

>>22392509
He makes a good point that Socrates didn’t believe every argument he put forward but reducing it to “he believed nothing he said in any of these dialogues” is an oversimplification and going too far.

>>22385077
Either a literature grad student doomer type who has a personal attachment to greek legend as being "archetypal" and uses its simplicity as a grounding, since he has 100 more books he has to read this year and feels something timeless is comforting -

Or a soiboy who has read approximately zero books, was forced to read the Odyssey in high school because he didn't know what sparknotes was yet, and calls it his favorite book because unironically it's one of the last books he ever actually read.

No middle ground.

>>22392595
allan bloom ruined a whole generation of plato scholars

>>22392595
>“he believed nothing he said in any of these dialogues"

I didn't say this, but there are some things that you should not getting for facts yes

>>22393073
I don't even know who that man is

>>22385077
An ESL 4channer who imagines he also understands Plato, and his understanding really resembles Wikipedia summaries.

>>22393359
Is this you anon?

>>22393359
How can you spot wikipedia summaries? You don't read wikipedia summaries do you?

>>22393375
Just an innocent answer to OP's question, why would I have anyone in mind, say, in this thread or others as of late?

>>22393411
Surely you musn't talk about anyone in this thread otherwise you would have taught him a lesson since you understood plato and the importance of the dialectical discourse

>>22393359
Ironically, I did write / rewrite many of his wiki articles which is why my arguments T resemble those. The only one I completely rewrote was Lysis because it was all done in ESL kraut speak.

>>22393475
Based anon doing god work dismissing the thruth to wikipedia readers with his shit takes, bravo

>>22393359
I am Mr 12345 on the Lysis page if you don’t believe me. I hate my life but I am definitely not ESL or a foreigner.

>>22393475
>>22393490
Lol I'm not talking about you buddy

>>22393485
I “dismiss” the truth “to Wikipedia” but somehow I am the ESL. Did someone call you ESL and you just wanted to use that as an insult because you are angry?

>>22393500
Is being ESL supposedly a bad thing?

You literally can't have honest discussion online, you wouldn't call me ESL or strawmanning me or be le subtle troll without getting batista bombed into the concrete repeatedly

>>22393607
>You literally can't have honest discussion online,
"*An* honest discussion online."

>you wouldn't call me ESL or strawmanning me
"*An* ESL", "or *strawman me*."

Ask me how I know you're an ESL without saying you're an ESL.

>>22393889
What if i am?

which translation bros?

>>22393518
Yes
>>22394551
Lattimore. Butler is recommended here quite often but I hate him purely because of his “Odyssey was written by le woman” stance.

>>22394559
Is that so bad if there's evidence to say it's true?

>>22392449
Great pity was wrought by Ulysses.

"Arising first Eupithes spake, for grief
Sat heavy on his soul, grief for the loss
Of his Antinoüs by Ulysses slain
Foremost of all, whom mourning, thus he said.
My friends! no trivial fruits the Greecians reap
Of this man’s doings. Those he took with him
On board his barks, a num’rous train and bold,
Then lost his barks, lost all his num’rous train,
And these, our noblest, slew at his return.
Come therefore—ere he yet escape by flight
To Pylus or to noble Elis, realm
Of the Epeans, follow him; else shame
Attends us and indelible reproach.
If we avenge not on these men the blood
Of our own sons and brothers, farewell then
All that makes life desirable; my wish
Henceforth shall be to mingle with the shades.
Oh then pursue and seize them ere they fly."

A tale of man's helplessness in the face of the gods.

"They sallied, and Ulysses led the way.
Then Jove’s own daughter Pallas, in the form
And with the voice of Mentor, came in view,
Whom seeing Laertiades rejoiced,
And thus Telemachus, his son, bespake.
Now, oh my son! thou shalt observe, untold
By me, where fight the bravest. Oh shame not
Thine ancestry, who have in all the earth
Proof given of valour in all ages past.
To whom Telemachus, discrete, replied.
My father! if thou wish that spectacle,
Thou shalt behold thy son, as thou hast said,
In nought dishonouring his noble race.
Then was Laertes joyful, and exclaim’d,
What sun hath ris’n to-day? oh blessed Gods!
My son and grandson emulous dispute
The prize of glory, and my soul exults.
He ended, and Minerva drawing nigh
To the old King, thus counsell’d him. Oh friend
Whom most I love, son of Arcesias! pray’r
Preferring to the virgin azure-eyed,
And to her father Jove, delay not, shake
Thy lance in air, and give it instant flight.
So saying, the Goddess nerved his arm anew.
He sought in pray’r the daughter dread of Jove,
And, brandishing it, hurl’d his lance; it struck
Eupithes, pierced his helmet brazen-cheek’d
That stay’d it not, but forth it sprang beyond,
And with loud clangor of his arms he fell.
Then flew Ulysses and his noble son
With faulchion and with spear of double edge
To the assault, and of them all had left
None living, none had to his home return’d,
But that Jove’s virgin daughter with a voice
Of loud authority thus quell’d them all.
Peace, O ye men of Ithaca! while yet
The field remains undeluged with your blood.
So she, and fear at once paled ev’ry cheek.
All trembled at the voice divine; their arms
Escaping from the grasp fell to the earth,
And, covetous of longer life, each fled
Back to the city. Then Ulysses sent
His voice abroad, and with an eagle’s force
Sprang on the people; but Saturnian Jove,
Cast down, incontinent, his smouldring bolt
At Pallas’ feet"

What is Ithaca, but a home, noble, yet of blood-thirsty savages, fair yet rugged. Jove seeks justice for it, yet desires it for himself.
https://pastebin.com/P3rVFrue

>>22394559
It’s true Odysseus is the female fantasy of the alpha male he fuck whore behind her back, he kill people that want to fuck, he’s the strongest, the smartest, he’s even loved by the gods, only a man like that can have that pussy still loyal to him after 20 years

>>22393518
Muttoids need to cope with the fact that they know one language which is incipiently being destroyed by ebonics and spanglish.

>>22385077
Τον εαυτο μου

>>22395592
>destroyed
improved*

>>22385468
Lol, this is a literature sub. Reading a lot should define the users here.

>>22385077
>chases Skirts

>>22395744
Books are for people with slow brains

>>22395717
Yourself?

>>22385077
a complete loser, the iliad has so much more soul

>>22396110
>soul