/lit/ - Literature

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
The slogan 'Press On!' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
-Calvin Coolidge

Oh well my story is a dud. Do I just self publish it or keep trying to sell it to agents?

>>22338080
Agents are scum. Case in point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aduzco1VJZE
The publishing industry is moribund. Just self-publish.

>>22336249
What books would you say are better than McKee's?

>>22338088
To be fair, he does give honest opinions and he does say none of it sells.

>>22338111
IMHO, the reasons he gives for rejecting books, based on their query letters, are paper-thin and arrogant.

>>22338102
For screenwriting in particular, Gulino's books (as I already mentioned in that post), Matt Bird's books, and the book by Jeff Kitchen. The last one is virtually unknown but its the only book I know that takes the extra step of actually applying all of its ideas to write a screenplay from scratch.

>>22338120
I don't know about that. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I think when you have enough experience you can start to trust your intuition on what will sell and what won't. I mean would you have honestly shelled out money to read any of the books he rejected? I don't think I would have.

>>22338140
Nice. I'm guessing these are also good for general writing, right? Or would you recommend something else for novels and short stories?

I'm trying to formulate the research question for my Master's thesis and I'm looking for some help for linguistic clarity and punctuation. I use ChatGPT to help me to formulate stylistically better sentences but this time, I think it's kind of wrong:

"To what extent have variations in institutional arrangements, labor market, and social policy traditions in EU member states' capitalist systems, along with the dynamics of their political processes at the national and EU levels, influenced the..."

What bugs me is the comma in "labor market, and social policy traditions" - there shouldn't be one after labour market, right? Because it's "labour market policy traditions" and "social policy traditions".

Also, would you change anything? An alternative I had in mind was, but it seems kind of long and blocky to me:
"To what extent have variations in EU member states' capitalist systems with regard to their institutional arrangements and traditions of labour market and social policies, along with the particular dynamics of their political processes at the national and EU levels, influenced..."

>>22338168
Definitely not for general writing. That's why I prefaced it by saying for screenwriting in particular. For general writing, some lesser known recs would be Michael Kardos, Damon Knight, and Laurie Alberts.

>>22338196
Perfect, thanks.

>>22338187
>What bugs me is the comma in "labor market, and social policy traditions" - there shouldn't be one after labour market, right? Because it's "labour market policy traditions" and "social policy traditions".
Then it's ambiguous. Write it all out. You can also use hyphens, as in 'labour- and policy-traditions,' but that's pretty ugly for what you're doing.

>>22338206
Is it too unclear if I just write "labour market and social policy traditions" in that sentence? If I write it out, I'd make it unnecessarily ugly I'd think.

How about this?:

To what extent have variations in the institutional arrangements and traditions of labor market and social policies in different capitalist systems of member states, along with the particular dynamics of their political processes at the national and EU levels, influenced..."

This is what I had in the beginning, but again, this seems a bit too long which is why I tried to reformulate it into "variations in institutional arrangements, labor market, and social policy traditions"

Shameless double post, but which of these two flows easier and is easier to understand without using TOO much of your brain?:

To what extent have variations in EU member states' capitalist systems with regard to their institutional arrangements and labour market and social policy traditions, along with the particular dynamics of their political processes at the national and EU levels, influenced..."

To what extent have variations in institutional arrangements, labor market and social policy traditions in EU member states' capitalist systems, along with the dynamics of their political processes at the national and EU levels, influenced..."

>>22338236
second one flows better but they're both pretty bad

>>22338237
You got any suggestion?

Say I have a ton of money. Would I be able to pay to have someone publish and advertise my book for me and I get all sales back?

>>22338247
Share the wealth—with us (me).

>>22338247
There are "vanity publishers" that offer exactly that.

>>22338263
And are all of them predatory?

>>22338245
OP here but maybe this is better?:

"To what extent have variations in institutional arrangements and policy traditions related to labor market and social policies within EU member states' capitalist systems influenced the emergence of the Bla Regulation, and how have political dynamics at the national and EU levels played a role?

>>22338041
I just spent 45 minutes clicking website pages phone texts emails trying to setup a coinbase account so I can buy a 4chan pass
the last time I bought a 4chan pass they supported debit cards that was several years ago
thanks for reading

Yesterday I did the math and I have only 18k words left on my second draft. About 9k are new words and 9k are from first draft.

After that I have to go through my notes which will take another week or two. I am realistically 6 weeks from a very readable second draft of my novel. I am very stoked.

>>22338301
No, they just cater to people who're willing to buy publications. You have the money so you can skip the line. Some will get as much as they can, but those are easy to spot.

I edited another chapter today and now I'm ahead of schedule.
To the other anons, keep plugging away.

>>22338140
Gulino?

Asking for help on a good prologue.

Criticism appreciated and hoping for some suggestions.

The metal gate opened with smooth motion, and in came a set number of trucks and cars. The space inside the school was vast and open. The sky was blue and the clouds were white, beckoning a day’s efforts to unfold. Upon parking in rows each predesignated to their driver, people started to step out onto the grounds, and in a near perfect line they started walking towards the main building of the school.
The headmaster awaited the arrival of the new staff to her institution. An auditorium beneath underneath the main school building. A large space lined with a few hundred seats all facing a sizable platform at the bottom of the incline was soon filled with the new arrivals, all with seats assigned to them. Everyone and everything had a place and role to play.
Some had multiple roles, some had but one, yet each and every one thing was expected to perform to perfection. Nothing was allowed to go wrong. Failure was not allowed to exist here, in St. Venture’s school for children. For it’s arrival would carry with it a price too great.
With everyone in their seats, a woman slowly walked on-stage. Her pace was steady and with a slight stomp to her heel, she turned to face them all. “Welcome to St. Venture’s school for youth. My name is Amelice Minerva. I am the headmaster of this institution.” Her voice would have made one think she had a microphone, but she was just that loud. Her tone leaving room for neither hesitation nor misinterpretation.

(1)

“As you are all aware, this is a very important facility. You have all been chosen for this duty carefully. None of you would be here if your abilities were in question at any point during our screening process.” She told her audience with stern resolve. “A role has been assigned to you all, and you are expected to perform with nothing less than perfection.” She went on to say, affirming their expectations.
“Failure is not an option. For a full year we will endeavor to deliver the very best education. Funding is a non-issue. From the janitors to the staff directly under me, you will all see six-figure salaries upon completion.” Headmaster Minerva said. The stern and determined face turned ever so slightly to look up and to the right of the seats.
A hand was up in gesture for a question.
“Speak.” The headmaster allowed. “I understand what our roles are, and I believe we are more than capable of undertaking the tasks presented before us, but there’s just one thing that eludes me, if you could explain.” The man said. “And that would be?” The headmaster followed.
“What did the letter mean when it spoke of ‘Carrying out our lord’s wishes’?” The man asked. The headmaster’s eye twitched at the man’s question, as if he had asked the stupidest thing she had ever heard. “You are Mr. Von Schultz, am I correct?” she asked.
“I am.” The man confirmed, albeit with a twinge of embarrassment at the condescending looks coming from his peers. “Well let me help you understand, Mr. Von Schultz. Seeing as how this is obviously your first time in St. Venture, I’ll make it clear. Come see me in my office afterwards. I believe we have a few more newcomers as well, so you lot had better come along as well.”
With a nod, the man rested his back on the chair. The rest of the introduction proceeded as normal and everyone had a chance to ask more specific questions regarding their duties before being handed their schedule and place of lodging. Exiting the auditorium, everyone seemed to already know where to go and what to expect, save for 4 people who made their way to the headmaster’s office.
Their curiosity piqued, each entered and stood in front of the desk of the older woman sitting with one leg crossed over the other. She looked unbearably bored, yet eager to get on with it. Her graying hair and blasé eyes doing nothing to take away from her dominating presence.
Looking all 4 of them over, lingering sightly on Mr. Von Schultz, the headmaster started. “Our institution has stood for many generations. All the way back to the 1800s. As I’m sure you’re aware, this isn’t a normal school by any stretch of the imagination. We serve a purpose here, and that purpose selfsame to our lord’s. Ever have our people endeavored to please him and contend with his message.”
They each nodded as in understanding of where she was getting at.

(2)

“As such, I would like to know what you think we are doing here, exactly.” she asked the small group for their insight.
One of them stepped forward, a lithe woman with blonde hair and blue eyes. She had a kind look to her, almost motherly. “We’re here to teach the young boys and girls about our lord and savior, Jesus Christ.” said the blonde.
At her words Mr. Von Schultz’s eyes went wide as he looked at the Headmaster in surprise. She stared back at him with a twinge of anger at his reaction before turning her attention to the woman.
“Right you are, Ms. Pierce. We’re here to take good care of our children. They deserve the very best. Adorable little creatures that they are.” Headmaster Minerva finished with a chuckle. At her words, Ms. Pierce lost a bit of her smile hearing the children be called “creatures”.
“But make no mistake, we do not get our funding from charity.” she went on to say. Miss Pierce’s head tilted to the side slightly, belying her confusion. “Pray tell, where do we get it from?”. The headmaster turned to look at Mr. Von Schultz as if to confirm his buried suspicions.
“As I’ve said, this school serves a purpose. That purpose being to prepare and rear our precious girls into fine young women who will lead the next generation of our kind. There can be only so many of us at a time, after all...” she finished with a dark tone.
Mr. Von Schultz could feel the tension building up. The headmaster deliberately getting closer to revealing a secret so dark and bloody he wondered if the lithe woman would make it out alive at this point.
“Girls? and the boys? I’m sorry headmaster but I’m not sure I understand...” the blonde asked, the smile having left her features.
“You see, Ms. Pierce. We’re not here to pretend to be anything other than what we are.” Headmaster Minerva told her. “Therefore, When you received our letter telling of how we need a sister for our church, I wasn’t lying, but I wasn’t asking for your services, either.” and ended with a condescending tone.

(3)

Ms. Pierce’s face went pale at hearing that. ”... Then why was I invited to come here, if not to spread the word of god?” She asked, trembling slightly out of fear of the unknown.
The head master stood from her chair, and held up a hand, ready to snap her fingers. “You’re here as a welcoming gift in good faith to our new chief of security. A bottle of our finest wine just won’t do for an occasion such as this.”
Snap
Without another word, the two men beside her set upon her as she shrieked and struggled in their grasp. She looked into the face of the man furthest from her, Mr. Von Schultz, and pleaded with him to help her, but the headmaster looked him in the eyes, and smiled warmly.
“Do enjoy your welcoming gift, Conner. I hope her blood is to your liking.” The headmaster told him as she waved an arm in invitation for him to indulge.
The teeth of every member in the room save for poor Ms. Pierce suddenly grew sharper and longer, before they all sunk their maws into her soft body.
Her squirming ceased as her heart beat it’s last.

(4)

I realize this is a buncha reading to do, but I would really appreciate some pointers. In the future I think I'd better post it on a site somewhere though this definitely sucked and I now realize this was not the best way to post the whole thing.

>>22338565
>Underneath beneath
My bad. Changed it to
> An auditorium awaited them beneath the main building.

>>22338088
He looks like a man who deserves to die a painful death.

Where do I find writing contests to sate my ego in and do battle against writers?

>>22338153
We literally live in a world where females are the majority of readers. No wonder what sells is tepid dogshit for retards. Women are fucking dumb as hell and buy absolute cess like Fifty shades and Twilight, for fuck's sake.
I get that reality doesn't go away just because you think it sucks, but so very many decent books by men go unnoticed merely because they're not what women want to read.
Literature is suffering because men aren't partaking in it nearly as much as they would in generations past.
That's it. The average reader has been dumbed down to a fucking 12 year-old faggot.

>>22338153
My man, you're defending a guy who has his name spelt one way on his channel but insists that isn't how you're supposed to spell it.

>>22338565
>The headmaster awaited the arrival of the new staff to her institution. Their destination an auditorium beneath the main building. A large space lined with a few hundred seats all facing a sizable platform at the bottom of the incline was soon filled with the new arrivals, all with seats assigned to them. Everyone and everything had a place and role to play.

Sounds better imo. Really having a hard time revisiting some stuff and feeling it's off by a lot.

>want to have an arc told from the perspective of a dog following one of my protagonists
>add some parallels to a soldier following his lord/king/general to the bitter end
>want the arc to end with the dog giving up his life to feed his owner when both of them are starving
>realize that dogs can't connect the dots necessary to reach that decision
RIP

>>22338565
>The metal gate opened with a smooth motion; in came a set number of trucks and cars. The space inside the school was vast and open. The azure sky and cotton clouds beckoned a day's effort to unfold. Upon parking in predesignated rows, the people started to march unto the grounds, and just like ants, started to walk in a near perfect line towards the main building of the school.
>The headmaster awaited the arrival of the new staff in an auditorium beneath the main school building. The auditorium, a large space lined with a few hundred seats all facing a sizable platform at the bottom of the incline, was soon filled with the new arrivals, all in their predesignated seats. Everyone and everything had a role to play.
>Some had multiple roles, some had but one; yet each and every one was expected to perform to perfection. Nothing was allowed to go wrong. Failure was not allowed to exist here, in St. Venture's School for Children. For its presence would carry a heavy price. A price much to great to bear.
>With everyone in their seats, a woman slowly walked on-stage. Her pace was steady and with a slight stop to her heel, she spun to face them all. "Welcome to St. Venture's School for Children. I am Amelice Minerva. I am the headmaster of this institution." Her voice would have made one think she had a microphone, but she was just that capable of sending forth her words. Her tone leaving room for neither hesistation nor misinterpretation.
This is all I'll do. I am not one to read these types of stories, so I will refrain from offering criticism on that front; but I will say that your vocabulary and imagery is wholly lacking. I have given a cursory glance concerning the rest, and I wlll commend you on your dialogue. Now that I engage with it more, I realize that perhaps your vocabulary isn't lacking, but that you only swell to your full stature when writing dialogue. I am not sure, but I really like the dialogue and am repulsed by the narration.
By the by,
>Her squirming ceased as her heart beat its last.

>>22338707
>cannibalism
find a better solution

>>22338707
You don't need to imitate reality.

>>22338711
>cannibalism
?
The owner is human.

>>22338713
Chang...

>>22338710
Eh, now that I read it
>>but she was just that capable of sending forth her words
is just plain terrible. I'm sorry. But the
>Her voice would have made one think she had a microphone, but she was just that loud
is too childishly amateurish. It doesn't set up that cut-throat mood I suspect you are going for.

>>22338710
I actually thought the same thing. I'm currently trying to add more definition to it and making sure the scene doesn't feel so bland and boring.
I have to go into more depth for sure.

i've been having the itch to write these past few months but have been choosing to do other hobbies with my free time mostly. i just can't settle on an idea that gets me engaged for more than a single session. that was until today, while speaking to my roommate i realized that i could actualize a documentary idea i had through written journalism. i'm thinking about recording conversations/interviews with people on the subject of adolescence, adulthood, and the quarter life crisis and turning it into a piece. anyone ever work on something like this and have any advice? im not sure how to feel about the cliche of misrepresenting quotes in journalism and if i should avoid doing that, because maybe a narrative will be beneficial.

>>22338712
I'm more concerned about plausibility. I'm not sure how many people would believe that scenario.

>>22338715
Now that you mention it, I settled on making the dog a nureongi so people in the know would believe there was no way he would get eaten but I'm reconsidering it now.
I mean, it's obvious but it also defies what a dog of that breed is fated to. Though elevating that fate into more than a goofy asian dietary custom is also good. idunno

>>22338767
>so people in the know would believe there was no way he would get eaten but I'm reconsidering it now.
You stupid gook, that spoils it all immediately. No White man would ever like this shit. Get rid of it.

>>22338772
>No white man would ever like this shit
Why does a reader have to be white lmao

>>22338827
Why do you hate White people? Can we have one less piece of anti-White tripe in the world? Can you even do that?

>>22338604
And he's a literary agent. Strike two!

>>22338830
I don't hate white people what do you mean what made you think that?

>>22338838
You literally refuse to capitalize White in reference to White people, you attack dogs which are the White man's best friend because you only know them as food, and you start mocking a White man for telling you to cut that shit out. Why do you hate White people so much?

>>22338839
Please write a book about your supposed anti-white hate. I would read it.

>>22338843
You finally admit your hatred of White people by projecting it onto me. Why are ricels like this, /lit/?

>>22338847
>I'm a ricel now

Fuck...

Play nice, boys.

>>22338850
Pretty sure later in the thread someone is going to commit to character assassination. Par for the course, really.

Anon that asked about the dog here.

You did read that the dog would be unequivocally the hero in that story, right?

>think of a killer first line
>have idea of how I want it to end
>can write a whole short story in days
>can't think of a killer first line for novel

What do

>>22338247
instead you buy a billion copies of your own book and make it a 'best seller'. this is what celebrity authors do and probably others.

>>22338187
Maybe a paragraph isn't the right solution to organise your information
>Exploring to what extent the varying capitalist systems of the EU member states have influenced:
>-institutional arrangements
>-labor market
>-social policy traditions
>-dynamics of their political processes at both the national and EU levels
>In regards to.../ blah blah blah
as an example.

>>22338508
Paul Gulino

I've just been prodding it for a bit now, so it's probably the time to ask for criticism:

Lightning burnt the sky. Gold crawled through cloud and shadows burst from their dens. For an instant. They ran again when I caught them.
White lanced across the street. From bush to bush. My arm dripped. It would be red for the next flash, but I couldn't feel the cut, just the heat. The white was gone again.
I'm no longer convinced it's a bear.
Crashing rain drowned my shouts, and straying towards a house just provoked another streak of white.
Still my empty legs stumbled, end over end, and I advanced. Strength bubbled from deep, far deeper than I'd known. Air whistled out my throat and was beat from the air. Asphalt decayed to dirt, mud now, and a second scorch of lightning framed the cross. The only direction left. My whole body worked and the thuds rivalled the thunder.

"Father! Father! Help!"
The white hadn't pursued. The ground was clear, with nowhere to hide. But an upswell of spunk would only need seconds.
The deluge stole any response, and I'm not a patient man. Stained glass ran the walls, and jumping, my fingertips just found purchase. Frayed from adrenaline, and flayed from the white my arms held, and lifted me to the sill. There was movement from the boundary between houses and dirt. Jittering in the dark, at the fringe of vision. It wasn't white, and it was much faster. The glass crumbled easily, but not entirely. I fell through, pulling the shards down with me.
A pew broke, and broke my fall. My arm, my torso, were split. Back too, but by something sharper. My leg kicked and rolled me under the next pew. But it didn't follow. It just stood in the window. Probably taller than me, but it's fingers edged past it's knees. A tongue lolled out onto a shard that hadn't given. One dripping.
Lightning silhouetted it harsher, but the flash only emptied my head. Of all but the cross. I tore my eyes from it, to the back. Candles burned in the chapels. Then a gust bellowed the door open behind. Only the rightmost candle survived. And I dashed again. Wax melted onto the chapel's desk beneath the inferno tipped torch, roaring to pierce the rain. I pulled my arms up, blood-slick wrist to shoulder, and brought them down into the wood. The dullness of the splinters hurt more than glass and claw. Beneath panels lay dirt, so I dug, and pulled, and a book surfaced. Heavy and old. Tanned coarsely in something I didn't recognise.
A crackle raised me back to the candle. All but dead now. Quietly sputtering and hesitant. I turned, finally feeling the fatigue, and exited into drizzle. Book in hand.

I'm not happy with anything I write.

>>22338310
If this is your question to explore, it's far too broad.

>>22338041
>AI slop

Is it a good idea to write the entire story in the format of the main character telling someone what happened? Like basically recapping the intense events of last week.

>>22339877
Interview with a vampire did it.

>>22339885
But like what are the pros and cons of that style?

>>22339903
Read interview with the vampire and decide on your own.

>>22339743
Thanks.

>like writing flash fictions
>write 200+ of them in two years
>feel ready to start pestering publishers
>AI starts cucking writers
Fuck I hate this timeline
Is there anyway I could get a publisher to look at such a thing?

>>22340144
AI isn't at the point where it can easily replace entire stories. It's still very detectable

>>22339757
Have you ever had someone wave a laser pointer in your eyes? That's what reading this feels like.

>>22339844
Well that's normal, to be honest with you.
If you keep going and stay with it, then you'll get there.
Unless you've developed unrealistic expectations. Then that's a whole other problem you need to deal with.

Made $3550 last month, up from $2800. It's looking good bros

That guy who still tries to find a well-written research question here. I've come up with three versions and am trying to combine conciseness, clarity, comprehensibility and style. Which would you prefer:

To what extent have variations between EU member states’ capitalist systems with regard to institutional arrangements and policy traditions related to labour market and social policies influenced [BLA], and how have political dynamics at the national and EU levels played a role?

To what extent have variations in institutional arrangements and policy traditions related to labour market and social policies among EU member states influenced [BLA]?

To what extent have variations between EU member states’ capitalist systems influenced [BLA]?

>>22340490
Made $0 this month, $0 last month, $0 all year. How did you do it?

>>22340648
The third one is the only workable one, but it's still too broad. You need to write

To what extent (does having a very specific metric, aka, minimum wage, a specific policy) between EU member states’ capitalist systems influenced [BLA]?

Write out BLA.

>>22339877
It's not just ok, it's very popular. Patrick Rothfuss and Robin Hobb both do that style very well off the top of my head.

>>22340667
Fuck you, how did you figure out what I wanna work with haha? The thing is, and my lecturer agreed with me on this, that I want to use the varieties of capitalism framework so I feel more or less obliged to have that mentioned in the research question as well. It is about the emergence of the minimum wage directive and the controversies leading up to its adoption. And except for just saying that "Sweden has no minimum wage, so they were against it", I wanted to use higher-level concepts with my "variations in capitalist systems" to delve more into the industrial relations and see the political processes going on inside the member states. Though I do want to maintain an institutionalist focus, I don't want to forget about the actual political dynamics.

>>22340653
Well there's a lot that goes into that but I would say purposefully writing to market was a big help. Write what people want to read (within the realm of what you also want to write). I've been posting publicly for about 8 months and writing consistently for about 3 years so officially being at 'living wages from writing' in that timeframe is pretty cool. Earnings are still going up month to month a decent amount, too.

>>22340707
I have a master's in economic policy and in my cohort, every faggot did minimum wage.

My Question: what we're the ramifications due the implementation of USMCA have on the American middle class?

Simple and bullshit.

>>22340762
See THIS sounds too broad to me.

>>22340732
What's a good way to get your name out?

Aight, I finished writing my dialogue; where do I publish it? And is it true I have to give royalties to whoever created the font I use in my writing? How do you guys do it?

>>22340144
>AI starts cucking writers
If you get cucked by AI you shouldn't try to publish.

>>22340706
The only thing Rothfuss does well is getting cucked

Can I have a character speak with the royal We without causing confusion?

Just passed the 10k word mark. How bad should I expect the first draft to be? I'm trying not to look back on what I've written too much, I figure these are just the building blocks. I know I'm not an outright terrible writer, grammatically speaking. I'm just terrified by the idea that this is all garbage.

>>22341189
Very bad.

How many sex scenes can you have before your story becomes smut?

>>22341198
0

>>22341198
Depends on how they're framed. Necromancer has a sex scene and it's a classic.

>>22339757
Trying to overwhelm and disorient the reader generally isn't a good idea unless you already have them securely on board for the ride. You can be visceral and dramatic while still being clear and controlled.

It feels like you've taken a scene and put it through a 'fuck this prose up' filter to try to make it superficially more interesting. But save the mystery for when you really need it; don't force obscurity. Like, check out Woolf's precision in The Waves, in literally any random passage, e.g.:
>Flowers toss their heads outside the window. I see wild birds, and impulses wilder than the wildest birds strike from my wild heart. My eyes are wild; my lips tight pressed. The bird flies; the flower dances; but I hear always the sullen thud of the waves; and the chained beast stamps on the beach. It stamps and stamps.

>>22341189
If you need to revise it means you wasted time. Any who can’t one and done is not a real writer.

>>22341198
Depends on how they're framed. Neuromancer has a sex scene and it's a classic.

>>22341189
>John Freeman
The pants were dead.

>>22341229
nice

I made some improvements can some of you check this out and give me some suggestions?

I know it's bad but I'm mostly looking for grammatical errors pointed out that I missed.

https://www.wattpad.com/1369835848-st-venture-prologue

>>22341403
When you can skip the entire first three paragraphs and go straight to the headmaster "welcome to st. Venture." You have a problem

>redditors find my story
>complain that the villains in a "man vs society" and "man vs self" conflict are boring (there aren't any main villains in the traditional sense, to be clear. They're just talking about people who clash with the protagonist's goals)
>complain that a poorly-socialized protagonist can't read social interactions correctly and sometimes is very cold to people or dense as hell
>complain that the story isn't a sequence of murder scenes, and instead the protagonist attempts to solve problems without risking his life (especially after nearly losing it due to trying to solve a problem through murder)
>complain that a small island with less than the population of a single large city doesn't have as many threats as a densely-forested country roughly the size of Australia
>etc. ad infinitum
I wish there was a way to tell these people that they're basically just using too few brain cells while reading without instantly self-immolating and getting a swarm of review bombs. My biggest major regret with this story is trying to fit it to the RR audience expectations a little bit to draw in viewers. I should have just gone apeshit from the beginning and given no fucks about what people thought because at least then I wouldn't have as many people giving scathing comments about how they wished the story was more like a generic LitRPG/fantasy/anime.

>>22341489
Name?

>>22341506
>give ammo to the /wg/ schizos
No, I might be venting but I'm not stupid

>>22341509
I was interested in the story.

>>22341515
Well RIP me I guess but It's on RR and not a LitRPG you might find it if you look. Sorry to be a standoffish dick but there's literally nowhere I can bitch about this and I think my neighbors are sick of hearing me talk to myself.

>>22341523
You could have been a little more organic. Link to it, ask about feedback, then pose as an anon livid with one of the reviews or false-flag agreement with the review in such a reddity way as to arouse contrarian rage in the average /wg/ anon.

>>22341531
But the goal was genuinely just to yell into the void to distract myself from the fact that I compromised my artistic integrity (lmao) to attract an audience who doesn't even understand what the story is about.
That sounds like way too much work and a great way to accidentally draw the ire of schizos.

>>22341541
I don't know why you're mad, to be honest. You deliberately tried to attract them then got angry when they're trying to help you?

>>22341552
>help
Complaining that something isn't something it's not isn't helping. It's like reading a romance story and complaining that it doesn't have enough action.
I tried to simplify the plot so it wasn't as philosophical and inward-focused, and they're pretty much saying "Why didn't you just make a LitRPG with a sociopath protagonist?" as if that isn't already a saturated genre. It is my fault a bit, I should have tried to filter people instead of ease them in, but I didn't go out of my way to court redditors. I just tried to make something that didn't read like pseudshit from chapter 1.
Silly me, lesson learned.

>>22341472
>opening with dialogue
Trope.

>>22341563
>Complaining that something isn't something it's not isn't helping
How are they supposed to know when you apparently changed it to attract them, on a site that is primarily about that content?

>>22341571
When they are (by their own admission) like 300k words into a story I'd expect them to have picked up on basic themes that were present pretty much from the beginning.

>>22341566
I didn't say to open with a dialogue. I said you have a problem when your first three paragraphs can be deleted.

With your reading comprehension, I can only suggest to read more.

>Pull the amnesia card to start writing my isekai-litRPG shit without thinking too much about my MC
>The further the story goes, the more pointless it feels
>The story is receiving generally positive reception, but some people have already expressed that they don't like MC not remembering his previous life
On the one hand, I don't fucking get it. Was it really that necessary to mention that MC was just an average Joe living a regular life?
On the other, now I have to either have MC just shrug it off and accept things or spend a sizeable portion of the story in some subplot to have MC remember his unremarkable boring life.
I regret the amnesia shit, but I don't write to rewrite the story and I wasn't planning on making MC's original life relevant or interesting to the story. What do?

>>22341531
High IQ move

>>22341722
You fucked up man, you gave him amnesia, now he has to have something interesting there.
Not, you could make it part of an actual plot important arc to have him fight an arc villain who could hold the key to his memories, and it's what he does in the process of acquiring his memories that advance the plot, and him remembering he actually wasn't that special can make him feel down before he realizes that what he's been fighting for in the present is more important than what he did in the past. Then you can move on from the amnesia.

>>22341489
It's okay my story is basically final fantasy vii reskinned but it's still didn't get any views on RR. I deleted it

>>22341741
That fucking sucks man, better luck next time I guess.

>>22341737
This, if anything since he's probably some ultra-powerful hero guy like most isekai protags are, maybe his friends are assuming he was some big shot in his previous life and are curious about it too

What AI do you guys use to make your book cover?

>>22341820
This thing in my skull, I hear people call it a "brain", and I combine it with the microsoft_paint checkpoint and the stick figure lora, seems to do the trick.

>>22341820
/g/

>>22341472
I have to disagree.
When I came up with the prologue I wanted to get a few important things across.
1. The standard of the school
2. Important characters for later in the story
3. A glimpse into the antagonists of the story
4. The beginning of the year and how the staff got there (This is important for later, too)

I don't feel like that first few paragraphs take away from that at all. They serve a purpose at the very least.
If I just started with the Headmaster speaking, then I'd have to find another clever way to give a rough structure of the institution, which is easier to do later if the reader already has a vague idea of what it is.

Is there literally anywhere you can go to get actual criticism? This place sucks dick for that from what I've seen over the course of half a year and after lurking for so long I just want to come out and say it. This place is no better than those pathetic reddits filled with mouth breathing retards.

I feel like it's a very few number of assholes that ruin it for everyone because they're bitter and jaded, but it's not like everyone else is willing to read and give advice. At the end of the day one has to ask himself what the fuck they're going to do if they want real criticism.

>>22341936
Go to Reedsy and talk to an actual editor.

>>22341936
used discord, posted here, been to live clubs
discord was decent cuz I made friends. here is hit or miss. between two writing groups, I've decided 3D is SHIT
most vapid common opinions there out of anywhere
make friends and give as much effort as you want to recieve

>>22341955
>An actual editor

Unironically hard to find one that isn't just an obnoxious self-righteous prick with a clear bias.

>>22341820
Dezgo and gimp/inkscape

>>22341959
How many have you talked to? I think it's easy to steer clear of the obnoxious ones after reading their summary and the books they have edited.

>>22341921
You should give a rough structure of the institution later, after you've introduced the MC. For fuck's sake, 'arry 'otter knew the proper order, why don't you?

>>22341021
Use a font with a free-to-use license.

>>22341980

>>22341985
Retard. I couldn't care less about what you have to introduce later if this is what I'm greeted with.

>>22341020
Not recommended, but it worked.

>>22341980
>Popular thing good
>Different thing bad

>>22341820
Stable Diffusion.
See https://rentry.org/sd-mashup for full setup instructions.

>>22339864
>>22341277
seethe

>>22341921
>If I just started with the Headmaster speaking, then I'd have to find another clever way to give a rough structure of the institution, which is easier to do later if the reader already has a vague idea of what it is.
The very title "headmaster" automatically tells us it's a fucking school. hence why your first 3 paragraphs meant nothing.

>>22342034
I can always pinpoint your ass in every thread.
You're always here making an ass of yourself and pretending everyone else is wrong.
You couldn't imagine being wrong, not ever.
Actually tell me. Who hurt your ass?

I also posted in the poetry thread but it only makes sense to post here too, here's something I'm getting back to working on these days.
>https://songoftheotherlings.carrd.co

>>22342050
Holy shit man you simply cannot take any criticism can you?

>scrolling my gdocs
>checking untitled documents
>find one of the stories that were posted here that I copied for study
whoever you are, good ass shit bro

>>22340732

Are you saying Royal Road or Substack?

Uploading to Amazon took a while, but I got it done. It is ass however. Welp, time to make some money off fantasy... hopefully. Oh yea, here is my story for free since I love you bros (and also since I think my 1400 word dialogue should not and will not sell for 2.99 on Amazon): https://pastebin.com/FN1rfpRK

>>22342407
pure, undistilled reddit
thanks I hate it

>>22342398
Yeah I went the royalroad route but it's hardly the only market. Just whatever you pick, make sure you understand what the audience wants. That's how I did it at least.

Finally got an ad out on RR and my followers doubled. Hopefully this leads into something bigger.

>>22342407
Every single person in that dialogue sound like the most incredibly annoying people to talk to. Do you write anything with less pseudointellectual jargon?

>>22342411
>>22342438
Thank you. Yea I know, but I honestly, in the deepest part of me, could not write any less autistic and pseudointellectual. For that would require being retards such as you are. ‹And such as I am as well, albeit differently›

>>22342447
projection
why do you write like you're a Family Guy character?
are you over 18?

>>22342447
how do you think that pseud trash is anything but the most retard friendly babble

>>22342447
>https://pastebin.com/FN1rfpRK
I think you're just autistic honestly, this is not how people talk. It reminds me of how a robot would interpret human interaction, what with everyone mention each other's names every sentence and the extremely binary tradeoff of mundane statements.

>>22342407
>Doesn't provide link to Amazon
Why?

>>22342453
>>22342454
>>22342457
I thought it well to include the names so that the readers could know who is doing the talking and to whom.
>Why do you write like a Family Guy character?
I don't even know what that means lol
> It reminds me of how a robot would interpret human interaction, what with everyone mention each other's names every sentence
Completely valid criticism; I thought so as well, but I also didn't think so
>the extremely binary tradeoff of mundane statements
For example?
>>22342464
Because it is not ready; they say it takes 3 days.

>>22342481
>J:”Are you alright, Leon? Let me help you up.”
>L:”Yes, yes. I am quite alright. Thank you Jakob. Just tripped over a log is all.”, he said with a slight smile and crimson face.
>J:”Or rather a person!”
>L:”Say again?”, asked Leon, eyes wide.
>V:”Haha! You needn’t worry Leon! You hadn’t tripped over a corpse. I assure you. Though even if you had, I am not so sure dread should have been the proper response.”
>L:”Oh my goodness; Forgive me Verum. I hadn’t seen you. I was just in the middle of a conversation with Jakob, and what with the shade of this oak—”

This legitimately reads like it was written by chatGPT.

>>22342481
Kindle

>>22342481
>I don't even know what that means lol
from the way you write I know you're lying but that's fine because like >>22342457 said I think you're just autistic, which is perfectly fine. Proud of you, fren.

>>22342489
What does a Family Guy character write like? That's vague. Do you think I watch Family Guy all day? But thanks, make sure to support me.
>>22342484
How would you improve it? I ask sincerely. And if I didn't think or suspect it of reading like ChatGPT, how should I have known better? What should I have looked for?

>>22342503
How much have you read? I was curious after seeing these other comments and skimmed over it, and it seems like you haven't read many books at all. If you do that you'll immediately begin to notice what's wrong.

>>22342507
I've read Proust, the whole of The New Testament, Moby Dick, Rasselas Prince of Abyssinia, Seneca's Letters to Lucilium, Meditations, Plato's Republic, Meno, Niels Lyhne, Mogens and Other Short Stories, Letters to a Young Poet, Kokoro, Stoner, and Samuel Johnson's Essays. These are my inspirations. Deliver the verdict how you will, but I love them all.

I have a beginning, middle, and end figured out, but it's very by the books right now. Is this normal?

>>22342530
Sure.
Once you start writing, you'll come up with other ideas.
After writing the characters for a while, they'll start to take on a life of their own, and you'll find it's less about writing them, and more documenting their natural interaction with each other.

>>22342530
Maybe try brainstorming and ask yourself if you think that is the story you want to tell. Maybe there is something missing from the plot, or perhaps it is just a matter of how you tell it.

>>22342503
It's hard to give you advice. You might just need to watch movies or talk to real people. I don't think you're genuinely incapable of understanding human interaction. Even if you want to talk in some medieval fashion, the first step is to make the dialogue more human sounding. Then, you need to learn the rule of making dialogue succinct and only include things that actually matter.


>Just then, Leon tripped and fell onto the dirt.
>Jakob walked over. "Are you alright? I can help you up-"
>"No, no. I'm fine," he said with cheeks that burned crimson. "Bloody logs everywhere, someone ought to clear this miserable path-"
>"Not quite a log so much as a person!"
>Leon stared with an angled brow, jumping backwards, when he looked down and saw the log in question. He frowned.
>Out from the woods, Verum's voice rang. "Gods above, can you both be silent for but a moment? Particularly you, Jakob."

Frankly I have a hard time even reading what I wrote since this is such a pointless interaction. Generally almost every single point of dialogue needs to either A. advance the plot or B. humanize/characterize somebody very well, and I found this a very bland way to convey that Jakob is a prankster. Personally I would just skip to whatever plot point comes next.

>>22342540
I figured. All it took was me writing the beginning and I suddenly came up with a dozen new characters just to explain the relationship between two.

>>22342543
I'm sorry, but this isn't much better I think. Leon isn't one to get emotional; especially if that emotion is leaning towards anger. Jakob isn't a prankster. Leon tripped over Verum in the dialogue. I thought it was obvious... given that Leon apologizes to Verum. Maybe I was wrong. Anyways, I like what you did with Verum's dialogue. That would be funny if he reacted like that over being stepped on. Of course, all in good spirits.

>>22342576
Yeah... read some books and take note on how their dialogue flows. My intent was not to make accurate depictions of your characters, but to display dialogue that flows better.

>>22342576
autismbros... why are we so incompatible with dialogue...

>>22342585
I'm not sure it flows better if I am being honest. Yours isn't terrible, but what is the point of writing what you wrote if you are writing different characters and different storyline? The point of that dialogue was, whether I suceeded or not, to paint not only Verum but Jakob and Leon as well, as jolly good fellows. Slow to anger, and quite respectful. I also introduced Verum in a rather slapstick way. And of course, Leon has to apologize.

>>22342609
Uhh I'm going to be real dude I think you just dont have the social understanding needed on how to write.

>>22342609
This is probably the funniest conversation I've seen here in months, thank you for posting

>>22342609
I believe in you, you can do it!

>>22342609
I think it would be fantastic if framed as a conversation the autistic protagonist is having with himself. Ignore retards like >>22342616 and think outside of the box

>>22342616
Well thanks, I guess. I'll be real as well and say I earnestly tried to understand and assimilate any advice you might have given me, paying no attention to any ego or supposed superiority I might have harbored within myself, in the hope that I might come out of this a better writer. Alas, we are all in the hands of the gods; and I came out of this no wiser. Given this and given that unlike my Leon, Jakob or Verum I am one who holds grudges, I'll leave you this green gem of truth which I know a better man would withhold for the good of his sanity, and it is this: I offer writing advice on here

>>22342653
2spoopy
Should have used the surprise box for maximum effect

>>22342653
For all your faults you sound like a fun person to hang out with, you remind me of a friend who loved Warhammer.

>>22342641
Thank you. What an arc, huh? When your haters become your frens
>>22342642
Sounds like a good idea
>>22342664
Yea, I don't know how to do that. Do you have any story suggestions such as the kind stranger above so glady offered?

>>22342642
that is a pretty based idea, but i think a normal-talking straight man would be required to pull off this idea and anon probably doesn't know how to write that. you know, the guy who walks in on the schizo talking to himself and is like "what the fuck"

>>22342674
>When your haters become your frens
I just think that after reading a few of your posts you really could use some more social interaction instead of people making fun of your writing.

>>22342675
You don't need to have them say much, a few side comments are all you really need to establish that, and that can be smoothed over with an editor.

>>22342682
nah, don quixote is entertaining because everyone he interacts with is a normal person clearly treating him with schizo gloves. if everyone was schizo it would be nonsensical

>>22342684
This, and Svejk is funny because we're never sure if he's smarter than he lets off.

>>22342547
The answer was inside you all along.
And fortunately, the answer is joyful and creative!

>>22341959

This is hands down on the worst generals on the entire website hahahah I love this shit.
You guys are such assholes about it, too.
Don't stop on my account though, sometimes you guys are genuine but just reading through all this butthurt is incredible when it hits just right.

>>22342933
Which one are you? I don't see a lot of butthurt in the last dozen posts and feel like there's a lot of good feedback.

How many projects do you work on at a time? I'm really tempted to start writing another story but I'm not even nearly halfway through the one I'm currently writing.

Is there a market for short novels that are 40k-60k words long?

>>22343086
that's not really short

>>22341229
>>22340362
Thanks and thanks

>>22342959
Like 5-8

>>22342959
I've got three projects but they're all connected so working on one gives me ideas for the other two

>>22342959
I don't limit myself to what I want to finish. At most I focus on one novel and one short story. But if inspiration strikes I will do an outline and maybe a first draft of something new.

>>22342959
I'm working on 1 big one and I feel bad about not finishing my other short story.

Then again, nobody read my fucking short stories.

>>22343094
It's novella length.
>>22343086
The answer is no. There's no market for anything except litRPG slop.

>>22343564
50k is novel length, full stop.

>>22343726
Maybe for YA. A more reasonable novel geared towards adults (i.e., not fantasy or science fiction or other basically-YA genres) is usually at least 80k words. The exception is commercial fiction, where 80k words is out of reach for your average airplane ride.

>>22343730
Nope. 50k is 50k.

How do you write consistently? I know for a fact I could finish a novel lengths work in about 2 weeks, a first draft for a short story in a day or two, I’ve done it before. Whenever I write, time flows through my fingers like water. I can easily spend up to 5 hours straight doing nothing but writing or editing, which is surprising given that I have ADD, but therein lies the issue. To start writing seems a herculean task. It’s a strange conundrum I’ve found myself in. When writing, I would rather write than do anything else, and when I’m not writing I would rather read than do anything else. Any tips or exercises to get over that hurdle of starting?

>>22343564
why is this thread so obsessed with litrpg? romance, thriller, erotica, other cheap low effort genre novels are way bigger markets. is it because litrpg is webfic? or because that cringe rpg shit lines up to 4chans interests so it gets attention?

>>22343971
Litrpgs are THE genre right now. Look at ssfg, all litrpg discussion. What you think anyone wants to read about some historical fiction about the Cola Wars?

>>22338565
I think it reads too much like a bunch of bullet points. I understand you're trying to set the scene up though. Your first three sentences start with 'the'. I might be someone that gets caught up in smaller details because I don't know how to write plot, but how did the vehicles sound when they "came in". Did they rumble, did their motors hum, did they have squeaky suspensions to imply the fleet is maintained -- or are they clean and neat for the event.

>Her pace was steady and with a slight stomp to her heel, she turned to face them all. “Welcome to St. Venture’s school for youth. My name is Amelice Minerva. I am the headmaster of this institution.” Her voice would have made one think she had a microphone, but she was just that loud. Her tone leaving room for neither hesitation nor misinterpretation.

that's a solid description.

In post two, I feel like the throwing back to post one about everyone having roles, sometimes more, but no one allowed to fail is sort of redundant to have Amelice repeat that.

>A hand was up in gesture for a question.

In my head, you've painted a huge like third Reich setting, and I know it's resolved quickily, but it throws me off that someone is dumb enough to raise their hand for a question and to have it addressed.

Everything else is probably fine, hard for me to judge dialogue. The only thing I'd suggest is tease somehow in the opening or lead the reader to find it's like a vampire school or whatever. It feels the weakest part is just the beating around the bush before the big reveal.

that's my 2cent.

>>22343988
Dude, litrpg is """the genre""" for super nerdy internet dwellers. Are you serious? Romance, thriller, erotica, etc absolutely dwarf it and probably always will. Love how you used /sffg/ as proof otherwise lmfao. delusional viewpoint, go touch grass

>>22344102
>Romance, thriller, erotica, etc absolutely dwarf it and probably always will.
There's more non basement dwellers than basement dwellers. For every nerd man children there's 30 middle aged housewives. But for a mongolian basket weaving forum, reddit, and discord, it's going to be filled with a bunch of man children. Hence all the LITRPG.

Fanfiction.net, wattpad, and other places are filled with horny teenage girls and 30 year old women.

>>22343958
I don't respect Neil Gaiman but he gives good advice on this: https://ywp.nanowrimo.org/pages/peptalk-gaiman

>>22344297
I also believe that Neil Gaiman is a femboy grown old and needs to be fucked by a time traveling black man, but here’s the thing: for some odd reason, writing has never stopped being magical to me. I’ll recognize when I’m in a slump, or when my writing becomes somewhat decent, or not very decent at all. But somehow, there is a subconscious magnetism that drives me forward whenever I write. I simply have a problem with starting to write because I’d rather be reading or I feel far too fatigued, or any other number of excuses I’ll have cooked up for myself; in spite of the fact that I know for certain I’ll enjoy the act, I seem to be unable to get myself to do it. It’s hard to explain, but if I had to choose to lose something vital, I’d rather lose my legs than anything that may make writing impossible or troublesome.

>>22344330
Try being less obsessed with niggers, that should help.

>>22344336
I curse you with sneed. I bless you with chuck.

>>22343971
>why is this thread so obsessed with litrpg?
Because it's actual dumpster fire. Not everyone tries writing romances. Not everyone tries writing thrillers. Definitely not everyone tries to write erotica.

Absolutely every retard and his cat Niggerman tries to write a litRPG these days.

Best way to make an alien abduction story "literary" and not have it read like some genre garbage like King or Koontz?

TL;DR;

>>22344366
No, every retard on THIS BOARD tries to write a litrpg. Because this board is filled with socially awkward nerds who consume fantasy, sci fi, comics, anime, etc. But LitRPG as a whole is a relatively unknown niche. People going on about how
>There's no market for anything except LitRPG slop
are delusional. And so are you, if you meant 'everyone' in any context besides 'this board' or even 'this thread'. There's even threads on /lit/ showing up asking wtf litrpg is. LitRPG is so far from mainstream much less "a big market" (growing, sure, but not big) that it's comical you people believe otherwise. It's a small niche genre inside fantasy, which is already smaller than something like romance.
The hate for it is kind of confusing, considering that context. I agree it's kind of stupid, but why the fuck does everyone care? Much less think it's a cheat code in the publishing industry?
In short, you're all retarded.

>>22344521
The publishing industry doesn't give one iota of a fuck about what White men want to see. It doesn't mean jack shit to me.

>>22338041
Need some advice, /lit/.

I've been working on a book for the last two summers and I'm at 52k words with 162 pages. To summarize, it's about a man living in New York during the COVID Lockdown whose business gets shut down and life begins to fall apart as a result. I've tried to include pretty much everything which was infamous during the Lockdown such as hoarding, crime waves, the uselessness of the police, general paranoia/suspicion towards others, loneliness, suicide, reckless Keynesian spending by the government, et cetera.

Originally I wanted the book to cover the entire span of the COVID zeitgeist, with it ending sometime after the release of the vaccine, but I also wanted it to end with the MC's business (it's a bakery) being burned down by BLM. The problem is that the George Floyd riots and release of the vaccine are about six months apart, so how should I handle this? I don't want to shove in another six months of filler just to eventually arrive at December in the plot, so here are my ideas:
>Forget the vaccine all together and just have the book focus on the early stages of Lockdown
>Have the Bakery be vandalized but not totally destroyed and advance the plot vis-a-vis a time skip where nothing really happens (seems like a boring option)
>Take liberties and have the vaccine released a month after the riots as opposed to six months later

>>22344541
good writing gets published. you just suck. cope

>>22344545
>vaccine
you mean the clotshot? not like it changes anything lol, focus on his business burning down and have him destitute and miserable after a timeskip, he dies from the vax but welcomes it

>>22344545
This sounds like a great book anon, kudos. My thoughts: it's difficult to advise you on an ending without knowing the themes you're going for. It seems like you're going for a more tragic ending, but the themes will guide how that tragedy takes shape. I think the BLM riot ending doesn't work in any case since it distracts from what the book seems to be about (the lockdown).

I recently got on new medication, which in turn, reignited the spark inside of me to write. That being said, how do I start? I have some experience on this site, I actually wrote something people liked once, it was pretty great. I have the beginnings of a story in mind. It's in an infancy stage. My biggest concern is that I don't have a prose. How do I get one?

>>22344568
>How do I get one?
no worries, you have one, it's how you made your post. It's shabby but I've seen worse, it'll do

Can we stop talking about litrpg and instead talk about the real webfic infinite money cheat code, cultivation novels?

>>22344559
>have him destitute and miserable after a timeskip
I've already written him to be pretty destitute and miserable up to this point lmao, so the only option I'm thinking about is having him be extremely suicidal after the burning (he owns an unregistered revolver gifted by his father). The problem is having him carry on long enough in between the burning and the vaccine.
>>22344567
The main theme I'd say is about how insane and destructive everyone/everything became in 2020 because of COVID (I've rebranded the disease to just be SARS), as well as the effect the government response had on normal people. The BLM riot in my mind is a core pillar of the book, so the Bakery must burn. What I think I'll do is cut down on some of the crap from the first half so that way the book doesn't feel bloated or unbalanced when I do a time skip from the riot to the vaccine.

>>22344366
>Not everyone tries writing romances. Definitely not everyone tries to write erotica.
In certain bubbles they do. You're just in some particular other bubble.

>>22344102
>Romance, thriller, erotica, etc absolutely dwarf it and probably always will.
For published books. But litRPG is the domain of webfic and self published works.

>>22344521
>LitRPG is so far from mainstream much less "a big market" (growing, sure, but not big) that it's comical you people believe otherwise. It's a small niche genre inside fantasy, which is already smaller than something like romance.

So what? Getting a big chunk of a small market can be more profitable than a tiny part of a wide market. Hungrier consumers. Less competition. And for writers using Patreon, fanatical readers are more important than the total number of readers, because fans are the ones who voluntarily pay.

>Much less think it's a cheat code in the publishing industry?
No one thinks that. (Or if they do, they're retarded) It's just a genre some people want to write.

>>22344545
Literally no one wants to think about the pandemic at this point.

>>22344631
Feel free to start. Tell us what you know.

>>22344680
Do you have any idea how much romance webfic there's out there?

>>22344580
How do I improve my shabby prose? It's my latest mental block- just like dreaded commas.

>>22344701
What's an example of non-shabby prose to you?

>>22344693
Beware of chicken's author makes over 10k a month on patreon

>>22344694
>Do you have any idea how much romance webfic there's out there?
So what? Just because there are oceans filled with fish doesn't make it impossible to go fishing for dinner at a local lake.

>>22344706
That's a great question. I haven't read anything in a few years, to be honest. I know I'm going to get shit for this, but my answer would be GRRM's prose. I want to be successful so I can stay home and play my favorite Gacha game all day.

>>22344680
>No one thinks that
The whole reason I made that original response was because people in this thread do have that opinion (I was replying to one of them) and so I was calling them retarded.

>>22344665
Yes, this is what I'm getting at.

And honestly, litrpg just gets talked about a lot in this thread, but not everyone is writing it like that one anon claimed. When it comes to people posting work here it's almost entirely YA or regular fantasy (with some schizo ramblings mixed in). People actually posting links to their litrpg is way rarer.

Hence, my original question: why are there so many people seething and obsessed with it?

>>22344718
Because my YA fantasy novel deserves more recognition and if I knock litrpg down a peg people will know my greatness

>>22344709
That's one of the most popular titles, right?
That's it? That's the jackpot? If I'm not only good but tremendously lucky that's the most I can expect to make?
What's the 95th percentile income like? What's the median?

>>22344728
honestly I know this is a bait post but let me go ahead and say that all shitty, amateur novels are in the same shitpool. genre doesn't matter at that point

>>22344730
Most people don't make over 10k a month

>>22344730
The tradeoff for writing in small niches is that it's easier to get your foot in the door but the ceiling is lower. Obviously being a top general fantasy author will make you 10s of millions, and litrpg simply doesn't.
Though, that's just his Patreon. He probably makes 100-200% more than that from Amazon KU and Audible sales. The ceiling for litrpg and cultivation is still being a millionaire. (And it's a growing genre)

>>22344730
The median income (and even top 10% probably) for any genre is beer money, dude. What point are you making?

>>22344715
I don't know anything about GRRM's prose, but what I have just skimmed right now; and I think you can well manage that by just writing. Of course, who really knows? Goodluck, however.

>>22344730
I don't make anywhere close to that and I'm a wageslave

>>22344718
>Hence, my original question: why are there so many people seething and obsessed with it?
People always hate the new things. Also they lump everything they don't like together. So half the time they're actually talking about progression fantasy, xianxia, cultivation, gamelit, isekai, or anything with a female protagonist. 'litRPG' becomes short hand for 'stuff I don't like'.

>>22344754
>What point are you making?
That saying "you should do this to make money" and then pointing to the exceptional case is bad advice

>>22344739
>>22344761
Yeah, but AFAIK with these things even if you do very very well you should expect to be an order of magnitude below the top

>>22344778
Oh god, not this again. When people say it's easier to make money with writing litrpg, they just mean EASIER (And it's true). Only gigantic fucking retards thinks they're saying "Look! Free money cheat!"

And some people are willing to take those low percentage odds of making writing a career, and so choose a genre where it's easier

is cum-cum-cum a valid use of the word?

>>22344793
It's just that the very top is basically irrelevant. Point to something closer to the middle. It's more useful.

>>22344813
There is no genre where the middle is a viable wage. There's no genre where the top 10% is a living wage. Maybe not even 1%.

Hence we discuss genres where it's EASIER to reach that goal, like litrpg (for example, a .5% chance instead of .01% chance with litfic).

If you're saying it's unwise to pursue writing as a career, no shit. But some people want to take that risk, and so look for the highest % chance.

Do I really need to keep explaining this? It's painful you don't understand.

>>22344825
I've understood that perfectly well from the beginning, my point is that "the Xth percentile is where you start making a living wage" is more useful information than "the top guy makes Y dollars". You yourself are also talking in percentages! Because those are what matters!

>>22344840
???? you said point to the middle, though. the middle doesn't fucking matter is my point

and top .5% IS the 'top'. Obviously the VERY top guy doesn't matter

Either you're the retard or I am, because I've got not clue what you're getting at

>>22344856
I said "point closer to the middle". Not the very middle, just somewhere other than the extremes.
>Obviously the VERY top guy doesn't matter
Yeah, and this started off with someone talking about the very top guy.
I think we're on the same page.

I shall venture scribbling High Fantasy. Farewell, I must be off now

semi related to the argument above, if anons really are looking for a way to make easy pocket change, where the 'average case' is higher than normal, then even shitty erotica authors make sales when posting to amazon under a small-moderate niche. The readers there will buy almost anything because releases are slow. but the ceiling is quite low unless you're the #1 in that niche with a big backlog. food for thought

>>22344916
Besides Amazon, where else is a good place to release smut for money?
RoyalRoad/Scribblehub/Wattpad seem to be dominated by litRPG and fanfics.

I think I'm going to rewrite the Emily Project.

>>22345031
depends on your model. If you want to sell copies, then only Amazon (smashwords and other sites are simply too small to be worthwhile). Though this means you have to write amazon-safe smut, so no incest, noncon, etc

But the typical Patreon model can also work for smut. In that case, post to literotica/storiesonline/all the other free erotica sites and advertise that you have a Patreon. Though this works much better if you write long form web serials and give advance chapters to patrons. I think there's a few people who write free fiction and only write shorts and no serials, but it's less common afaik. If you write shorts (5-15k standalones) then just post to Amazon

>>22344806
What changed about the cum?

>>22345098
>etc
Unironically, could you point me to more specific guidelines?

>>22341722
>now I have to either have MC just shrug it off and accept things or spend a sizeable portion of the story in some subplot to have MC remember his unremarkable boring life.
Do both. He knows or guesses he was a nobody, he's happier now, why bother unearthing the past if there's nothing worth telling. Odds are whatever he forgot was painful or a worthwhile trade for what he has now being given a blank slate.

After 5 years of editing and redrafting the same novel, I'm still getting comments about the most basic stuff to avoid. (Show don't tell, too many adverbs, lack of clarity, info dumping). I don't have it in my to once again wipe the slate clean and redo everything. I can't take it anymore. I give the fuck up.

>>22345222
This shit is the nightmare that keeps me from starting a story I imagined five years ago.

>>22344891
Fuck, I literally haven't written a word. I don't even know where to begin. I perused the stories on RR for ideas, but they are all lackluster. WarHammer seems my only inspiration. Phew, this is going to be tuff.

>>22345222
You need to take things with a grain of salt. Sometimes you send that shit out, and work on something new.

https://pastebin.com/biFq1keV

I am trying out a different style. First person, no real plot, kind of like Catcher in the Rye.

Please critique (and tell me how shit I am) this short piece I wrote. I hesitate to call it a story because there is no plot. Its a pro-skateboarder talking about his life.

>>22345222
You'll never reach perfection, anon. Just call it finished.

>>22344664
>he owns an unregistered revolver gifted by his father
No need, the vax will take care of him.

https://pastebin.com/iG3tcPGV

I know it's difficult to get anything read these days. But please I implore you to read this tiny bit I wrote. I'm getting back into writing after a long hiatus and your feedback is very much appreciated.

Please tell me what I suck at, what I'm doing wrong, etc. I want to become a better writer and need guidance on what I need to work on. Thank you.

If you could point me in the right direction to some resources that would be nice. I'm already reading the writing resources in the general, but if you know of any more (hopefully free) I would very much appreciate it.

>>22345222
post some here and let's have a look. also keep in mind that every cunt out there has an opinion like an asshole. if you're happy-ish with it then odds say you can find an editor of a similar vibe to work on it with you. don't give up anon; everything is salvagable

>>22345334
>https://pastebin.com/iG3tcPGV
It's not good but not bad. It lacks soul. Or rather, it feels as if you are too shy. It is barebones, but it has the bones you want in a story. It just needs the meat. Get into more detail during the battle.

>>22345339
I'm going to be honest, I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to explain things in my writing. I have incredible difficulty describing characters, for example.

>>22345344
A top another anon gave me was head to toe or toe to head

What's the difference between third limited and third Omni?

>>22345334
it's moving too fast, some pre-battle fluff would do wonders

>>22345517
This.
You can definitely go into more detail and add a few more lines to really set the scene.
Like cries and death throes and shit.

Haven't been to these threads for a few months. Haven't been able to make the time to write since I'm busy trying to pay the bills and improve my financial circumstances.

But I wrote a page of a new story today and I started using adjectives in my writing in a way I hadn't before. I was super big on phonetics in writing as a way to make a sentence feel whole, and whilst that is still the case, making a an effort to include adjectives to my sentences is another piece of the based-writing puzzle.

In practice I have two sheets open: phonetics and adjectives. I already have planned the gist of the scene I want to write (with room for unexpected outcomes to keep it interesting). I then go through the lists to see if any phonetics or adjectives jump out at me as interesting to use. This is not too different from an artistic looking at a reference or using a tried and tested brush stroke from his repertoire.

Being able to use adjectives like a peg on a washing line to keep the sentence nice and whole is really, really satisfying. I'm also a complete retard most of the time so I know this is painfully obvious to everyone that -- surprise pikachu face -- using adjectives thoughtfully makes the prose better.

Each in their own time I guess.

I want to write a "confrontation" between two sisters. The younger sister just realized she "likes" girls, but the elder sister is very homophobic. Unfortunately, she's also the only loving member of their family.

The elder sister really wanted her little sister to get married and have lots of children like a "normal" girl, and is shocked and disturbed by the idea. The younger one really doesn't know what to say, because she's internalized the idea of homosexuality being a disgusting aberration of nature.

In fact, she was actually looking forward to her marriage. She's bi, so it's not like she isn't attracted to men as well. She's just horrified that she is also attracted to girls.

>>22345626
The confrontation can go any way, really.
Depending on what ideology you're inherently pandering to, or if you're trying to give a neutral take on the whole thing.
Depending on your writing and the mannerisms of the sisters you could get away with portraying one as wrong or ignorant.

Are you trying to portray homosexuality as normal or okay? If so, then honestly you either go that direction or not. Playing both sides can be kind of irritating to everyone reading it, not just those who want more "representation".
Personally I'm fine with gays as long as they keep that shit away from me, but It's transexuals I genuinely feel hatred for as they can't even decide what they are, the stupid freaks.
Everyone has bias even if they claim they don't. It's up to you how you portray it. In a good light or a bad light.

Just know that a woman who doesn't want children is seen as a waste of space in society, as they should definitely be perceived.
Women can birth life and one who fails to do so, especially out of choice, is a burden.

>>22345626
Unless it ends in sex, I don't care

>>22345661
Based incest erotica enjoyer.

>>22345626
it must end in aggressive scissoring

>>22345639
>Playing both sides can be kind of irritating to everyone reading it, not just those who want more "representation".
I don't care about representation. I'm not writing for a HR seminar.

>>22345666
There's a lot of incest. Just not homosexual incest. Homophobia is common in it.

I'm just writing for drama. The more tragedy and drama, the better.

If I've never written before should I do a 6 week creative writing course just to see what it's about? It would just be for fun, I'm already over 30 and expect no success in this arena.

>>22345626
Take inspiration from soap operas. They're the best source to go to for writing emotional family drama between women.

>>22345626
So the elder sister is the only loving member of the family, right? That means she'll accept her sister's sexuality for what it is.

>>22338344
>44
May the Fourth be with you.

How many words all up?

Is a shortstory a good place to start for an absolute beginner?
I just have a fun worldbuilding idea and what to get out of my head and unfortunately I'm too shit ad being a Game Master and don't have a consistent enough Tabletop group anyways.
Where should I start, especially considering I have more of a world and less of a story in mind? I think I want to tell the story of some average guy in the world and through hat explore some of the worldbuilding, if that makes sense.
I assume the best way to go about it, is brainstorm some idea about what concrete characters I want to have and then sketch out a basic timeline for the plot, before fleshing it all out?

Sorry if any of these questions are trivial, I have zero writing experience except for one gay little sci-fi story I wrote ages ago, which I basically just started writing out of the blue and winged the whole way through.

>>22345820
>brainstorm some idea about what concrete characters I want to have and then sketch out a basic timeline for the plot, before fleshing it all out?

It's a short story, how much character and plot could it possibly have?

>>22345626
Writing a confrontation between two sisters dealing with such sensitive and complex issues requires a thoughtful and empathetic approach. Here are some writing tips to help you navigate this delicate subject matter:

1. Develop well-rounded characters: Make sure both sisters have distinct personalities, motivations, and backstories. Their beliefs and attitudes should be shaped by their unique life experiences, fears, and desires.

2. Show rather than tell: Instead of directly stating their beliefs, showcase their emotions, reactions, and body language. Let the readers understand their perspectives through their actions and interactions with each other.

3. Use dialogue effectively: Craft authentic and emotional dialogue that reflects the characters' inner conflicts. Ensure that their words resonate with their personalities and feelings about the situation.

4. Create internal struggles: Explore the internal turmoil of both sisters. The younger sister's internalized homophobia and the elder sister's conflict between her love for her sister and her homophobic beliefs can add depth to the story.

5. Avoid stereotypes: Be cautious not to reinforce harmful stereotypes about LGBTQ+ individuals. Give your characters individuality and uniqueness beyond their sexual orientation.

6. Gradual understanding and growth: Allow both sisters to evolve throughout the confrontation. This is an opportunity for them to question their beliefs and challenge their assumptions about love and acceptance.

7. Bring in external influences: Consider how other characters or events in their lives might impact their perspectives. This could include friends, colleagues, or personal experiences.

8. Focus on empathy and communication: Use the confrontation as a chance for both sisters to communicate openly and honestly. Encourage them to listen to each other's feelings and experiences, even if it's challenging.

9. Address familial love and support: Explore the complexity of familial love, especially when it clashes with differences in beliefs and identities. Highlight the importance of unconditional love and acceptance.

10. Offer hope and growth: Even in difficult situations, leave room for hope and growth for the characters. It can be powerful to see how people can change and overcome prejudices.

Remember, writing about sensitive topics like this requires sensitivity, research, and a commitment to representing diverse perspectives with respect and authenticity. By approaching the story with empathy and understanding, you can create a powerful and impactful narrative that resonates with readers.

>>22345824
Good point, not a lot.
But I still want to come up with something that's compelling to read, instead of purely being a vehicle for me exploring my worldbuilding.

>>22345827
SneedAI

>>22345851
A lot of sci-fi and fantasy writers do short story collections where all the stories are set in the same world. You can explore one or two aspects of the world in each story.

>>22345876
At least I'm helping.

What kind of person would want to be God? And not just want, to actively make attempts to be worshipped as a god?

>>22346129
Pathological narcissist.

Or pathological messiah complex.

I was so tired last night but I forced myself to write 1000 words that were coherent and part of the actual narrative.

My god, glancing at agents' submission forms nowadays, the process has just become so needlessly complicated with a lot of them. They literally make you break down your carefully crafted query letter piece by piece and answer additional random shit.
>Do you have twitter?
>Your own website?
>Blog?
>Bio?
>Pitch?
>Audience?
>Content warnings?
And on and on. Part of me wants that prestige of going the traditional route, but when even getting your submission in is this much of an ordeal, it makes me want to run the other way. Doesn't help that the industry's pretty much poisoned against men at this point.

>>22346225
>Pitch?
>Audience?
>Content warnings?
All of these are reasonable.
Rest isn't.

>>22346225
>>Do you have twitter?
What's a twitter? Why can't these agents get with the times?

>>22345876
Formerly Chuck's GPT

Is this a good novel idea?

Depressed/apathetic/narcissistic aspiring writer realizes he has no life experience from which to write so he goes about slowly taking risks and loving a kickass life while largely remaining apathetic and turned in on himself and he continues relaying the events of his newfound life through a self-pitying lens before finally comingnto trrmsb with his self-sabotage and maturing. It'd be like a comedy/satire/coming of age story for emotionally stunted late bloomers... the only thing is that the premise is vague and the actual events of the novel would need to somehow differentiate it from typical coming of age stories.

>>22346475
It seems interesting and culturally relevant so I would read it, though I would be wary of writing what could be seen as a criticism of your primary readerbase if you get too cynical with it

>>22346486
Yeah this is good insight actually, I'm thinking the hook shouldn't be coming of age for emotionally stunted narcissists but framed in a more innocent and relatable way where those happen to be character traits.

>scene: fighter pilot's plane is tumbling
>it's dizzying, disorienting, nauseating, etc.

How do I actually convey this? I literally can't think of any other way except doing meme formatting like doing indentations to the extreme left, right, and etc. to make the text all over the place

>>22346541
Green text with a little pepe illustration in pilot cap flailing his arms around

I'm reading the rhetoric of fiction, like it says in the general, and while it is interesting, I feel like it's way too smart for me. I have to look up a words definition every other paragraph. Should I keep going?

>2/3rds of the way through my novel
>been working on it consistently since June
>feeling like I'm actually gonna finish this time around
>get an idea for another short project
>start thinking about taking a week off to pursue it and get a rough draft done and then come back to the novel
Bad idea or terrible idea? I'm worried if I stop working on the novel, I'll never come back to it.

>>22346680
In my experience, if you've got something creative burning in you (like the short project), you should get it out of your system.
Then you can resume your novel without the distraction.
At least that's how I work.

I wanna write something like this but people are hyper sensitive now days. I'd be put on a list, and it will make the glowies glued to me.

>>22346733
Then write it & release it anonymously.
Write it just to get it out out of your system.

Is it feasible to plan on rewriting a novel from the beginning twice in two months?

I'm just sitting here waiting for 11Labs to become cheap so I can make entire audiobooks of my bad novels and choose any voice of any character I want and write for my own pleasure.
MAYBE I would consider sharing them with friends or anonymously release them, but I just want to fucking get my hands on that technology. Seriously, I don't give a shit anymore. This hobby could be turned into something more exciting if I could just get my hands on that fucking AI Voice shit and make spongebob erotica with sandy taking it, that fuckin' bitch.

>>22346863
>spongebob erotica
It's now clear why 11Labs keeps a tight leash on its technology.

https://pastebin.com/CnPNwggp

>>22345247
I really like the voice you convey here. Feels genuine. Don't hyphenate pro athlete btw

>>22346541
Make the sentences confused and disjointed, like the thoughts of someone who's currently crashing.

>>22346941
That's just the tip of the iceberg, anon.
Wait till the public gets it's hands on it for real.
I can't wait.

I have a fantasy culture with a fashion style that could be described as a fusion of eastern and western aesthetics. How do I describe this without relating it to real world cultures?

>>22346804
How do I self publish anonymously

I wrote words that I know I will have to throw out entirely later.

How do I continue onwards regardless?

>>22347746
https://www.google.com/search?q=amazon+kindle+pseudonym

https://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004641.html

None of us will ever make it.

>>22347790
>>22347790
>>22347790

>>22347789
I remember trying to break into Hollywood as a screenwriter way back when.
I remember one of my rejection letters, returned in the SASE I supplied them.
It was a strip of paper that simply said "Thanks, we'll pass."
My guess was that they had printed a whole sheet of these, then cut them up.

>>22347747
Consider that you had to get those words out of your system before you could write the better words.
To me, so much of writing is a purgative process.

>>22347789
I don't understand the logic behind rejections being shorter than acceptance. One would think simply saying "You passed" would be much easier.

Why are they always so goddamn self righteous and desperate to defend themselves against people they didn't want anyway?

>>22347824
My problem is that I have to fight the impulse to stop and pore over the right way to write the scene, to continue onwards with the bad scene I wrote.