/lit/ - Literature

>>22320918
Standard ebooks

>>22320918
Can someone enlighten me on the translation meme? I was going to read this book the other day since /lit/ was spamming it but then I noticed the translation debates. Is there really that big of a difference between them?

>>22321875
Nah dawg these boomers be mad cappin no cap Dey jus don't be bussin in day day like we do now on god

>>22321875
There's a divide between prose/flow and accurateness to the original. If you want something closest to the original russian read P&V. If you want prose/flow read Katz.

>>22321915
What If I want to have sex with your mother?

>> Just post the EPUB boys!

Fucks Zoom-Zooms

t. 19

>>22321875
People really hate p&v because they’re honesty kind of trash. They have the major publishers like penguin behind them though so they’ve been shipped as “the best” for the last decade.

>>22321995
I WANT THE EPUB I NEED THE EPUB ITS MINE ITS MINE I WANT IT I NEED IT GIVE IT TOO ME GIMME GIMME I WANT IT NOW RIGHT NOW ALYSOHA HELP ALYOSHA HELP HELP PLS GOD I JUST WANT THE EPUB

>>22321875
It's grossly overstated. For the most part, a mediocre translation won't ruin your perception of or enjoyment of a book. A bad translation might, but I don't think any existing Dosto translation is sufficiently bad enough to ruin it for you. It's best to just either ignore it or do a slight but of research and compare the translations yourself. Don't give it an inordinate amount of concern.

>>22321875
Avsey best girl

>>22321944
Start with the Greeks, obviously.

i’ll go half. i’ll put up $10 to buy it from amazon and rip it on calibre if an anon wants to send me $10 or if two want to send $5

Yes, just pm'd you :3

>>22322222

How do you pm on 4hcan?

>> t. not a newfag

>>22322222
checked

>>22322356
sent ;)

>>22322479
received :);(:

>> That's the right reply I guess; the fuck's going on'

Post a Link Please!

anyone got epub/pdf?

Currently reading this. It makes me cry from time to time. This is a blessing to my soul
Dostoevsky was a saint

>>22322762
just go on libgen

someone buy the fucking thing already

lol

>> ENOUGH WITH YOUR DIRTY GAMES, MY AUTISM IS AT PEAK!

Just post the link you fyogor dickinyourmomski!

>> My captcha got wrong :(

this book sucks black dick lol

>>22321875
It's retarded niggers who care about prose that give a shit about this type of thing.
That being said you absolutely should learn Russian and Greek at the very least.

>>22322131
I recommend requesting it on mobilism

>>22323526
Nah, I’m just legitimately an autistic faggot who enjoys new translations; especially ones that don’t involve women because they are generally useless. I also enjoyed his Crime and Punishment translation because it didn’t do that retarded “k——— bridge” bullshit other translations seem compelled to do with locations in his novels.

>>22320918
If you are alluding to Dostoevsky’s worst novels, then, indeed, I dislike intensely The Brothers Karamazov and the ghastly Crime and Punishment rigamarole. No, I do not object to soul-searching and self-revelation, but in those books the soul, and the sins, and the sentimentality, and the journalese, hardly warrant the tedious and muddled search. Dostoyevsky’s lack of taste, his monotonous dealings with persons suffering with pre-Freudian complexes, the way he has of wallowing in the tragic misadventures of human dignity – all this is difficult to admire. I do not like this trick his characters have of ”sinning their way to Jesus” or, as a Russian author, Ivan Bunin, put it more bluntly, ”spilling Jesus all over the place." Crime and Punishment’s plot did not seem as incredibly banal in 1866 when the book was written as it does now when noble prostitutes are apt to be received a little cynically by experienced readers. Dostoyevsky never really got over the influence which the European mystery novel and the sentimental novel made upon him. The sentimental influence implied that kind of conflict he liked—placing virtuous people in pathetic situations and then extracting from these situations the last ounce of pathos. Non-Russian readers do not realize two things: that not all Russians love Dostoevsky as much as Americans do, and that most of those Russians who do, venerate him as a mystic and not as an artist. He was a prophet, a claptrap journalist and a slapdash comedian. I admit that some of his scenes, some of his tremendous farcical rows are extraordinarily amusing. But his sensitive murderers and soulful prostitutes are not to be endured for one moment—by this reader anyway. Dostoyevsky seems to have been chosen by the destiny of Russian letters to become Russia’s greatest playwright, but he took the wrong turning and wrote novels.

I got the kindle free sample on amazon it’s a good demo it’s like 10 chapters

ill get it for you anon, give me a sec

https://annas-archive.org/md5/09b661667791ee9a34d025a164aad20d

>>22323867
>User last online 3 years 7 hours ago

>>22323867
>>22323873
>>22323877
I got it there, idk why OP is such a internet retard or what, who the fuck asks for information on how to get an old ass book like this?

>>22323881
we want the first new translation in twenty years that came out this week you asshole

>>22323888
ohh im sorry retard nigger

Anyone got the screenshot of the guy talking about tbk and which brother he sees himself as in messages with a girl?

>>22322222
Good get

It'd be hilarious if the jannies archive the thread before any fag post a epub...

I mean if someone had got the epub it'd probably be in libgen by now. We wouldn't be screaming at walls here.

>>22321875
99% of translation debates are pearl clutching and grandstanding. Most readers won't ever be in a state where they can actually appreciate the nuances of any given translation.

>>22320918
Does anyone have the pdf of Katz translation? It's not on Z lib.

>>22326135

You're 2 Days late in line. Autism is running wild here!

>>22320918
Apparently Katz took the piss out of P&V in the introduction, makes me like him even more.

>My only concern so far is with the gratuitous criticism of Pevear and Volokhonsky in the introduction.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R48CCNLI3SE09

someone buy the fucking thing already. not one of you has $23 to spare for the betterment of the community? jesus christ!

>> Some Buy & Post the Book Already...Jesus Christ!

>>22327156
why did you capitalize every word you prick?

>>22327071
Incredibly based.

ok well todays my birthday and my dad gave me $100 so i’ll buy the damn thing when i get home. i’ve never stripped drm from an ebook so if i can do it in calibre i’ll post it tonight

>>22327647
If you're actually going to, here:
https://github.com/noDRM/DeDRM_tools

>>22327647
Happy Birthday Fren

>>22327667
i am. but only have a macbook. i haven’t checked that link is there a mac option and if so is it assured to work on new kindle ebooks? if not i can purchase for a friend and have it emailed to someone that isn’t going to be an asshole and will rip it for us

>>22327692
I'll do it for all!

& Yes Calibre Works wonderfully on my m1 Mac.

>>22327716
if you post an email i’ll buy it now and have it sent to you. and which would be preferred, a kindle version from amazon or an epub from ebooks.com?

>>22327718
Kindle Version will be Fine!
here's a temp mail, I don't wanna be spammed for life:
dokod97325@quipas.com

I'll do it right away if you send!

>>22327718
wait nm the ebooks.com one is $36 dollars. you can use the kindle version without issue i’m assuming?

>>22327721
>>22327719
k just saw i’ll send it in a sec

>>22327721
Yeah!

>>22327723
Dude can you send a file, I can't redeem from amazon!

>>22327729
i already purchased it to the provided email damnit

>>22327729
https://www.amazon.com/gp/f.html?C=22LWPKKZBLY59&K=1H2359DYE4JDS&M=urn:rtn:msg:2023080103511288b197ba0e754ae696235b75e320p0na&R=I0ZSQGWD8PFL&T=C&U=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fproduct%2Fkindle-redemption%2FB0BHPRKQW8%3Fref%3Dpe_kinw_eml_rdm%26kinRedeem%3DGIFT%26kinRedeemToken%3DGSLHGKXX7KT44W3%26ref_%3Dpe_2549720_191942230&H=1QHGXBZNVIQG70HNHEKIGISEGHIA&ref_=pe_2549720_191942230

For anyone who can redeem!

>>22327739
I'll help with any Email support!

We can figure this out!

I have the option to revoke the sent code but it seems with the link anyone can just grab it which is fine as long as they can convert it. if anyone wants me to revoke it and send it to another email just let me know

>>22327751
Can you revoke the code & Download the file & Send me the file, I'll de-drm & upload epub for everyone or I gotta make a new US Amazon Account!

>>22327751
this is a mess anon. just revoke it before someone claims it and runs away

>>22327760
lol i know. revoked that one. waiting for a new email if anyone wants to step up.

>>22327763
Send it your own Email & download the file LOL!

>>22327764
yeah i’ll do that in a minute if no one posts an email. i just don’t feel like fucking around with this too much and don’t want to be stuck with the only copy struggling to get it to anyone (never bought an ebook from amazon so i don’t know how annoying itlll be or if they’ll just give me an easy to use file)

>>22327772
It's not simple. It's little fucked up to get the file...the de-drm part is rather simple

>>22327782
https://github.com/apprenticeharper/DeDRM_tools/wiki/Exactly-how-to-remove-DRM

A Guide

>>22327786
ok i’m gonna dl all this shit and then just send the code to myself. give me a few minutes

calibre crashes every time i try the configure key step in the github instructions. i’m gonna keep trying but here’s the drm locked azw3 file if anyone can do anything with it

an0nfiles /5ef3Cf51z9/The_Brothers_Karamazov_A_New_Translation_by_Michael_R_Katz_azw3

>>22327835
Send me the Azw3

dokod97325@quipas.com

>>22327839
sent

ok jesus christ I think I've finally got it converted. does anyone want to confirm that it works? It opens fine for me in calibre, but calibre has my kindle's serial number added to it so i'm not positive it works for everyone else.

https://files.catbox.moe/chpnf6.epub

>>22327904
Sorry for being late. Here you go I figured it out too.

https://files.catbox.moe/rgerl2.epub

Font - Garamond Premr Pro & Text Justified

>>22327923
>>22327904
Someone should upload this to libgen too

>>22327904
>>22327923
Fucking amazing you guys! I'm proud of this board.

Would this be better than pandv for someone reading it for the first time? I have read candp and The demons by Dostoevsky

Oink Oink P&V

Oink Oink Katz

Proud of this board. Let's read the introduction dissing on P and V.

>>22327944
I'll be honest I like aspects of both and the changes are often subtle, but for such a long book Katz just feels like it flows better.

>>22327954
Here you Go:

I

II

>>22327946
>the gosling says honk

>>22327970
>literally me.
>>22327968
So like everyone says P and V are too syntax for syntax to the Russian which sometimes works but most of the time reads like an ESL. Now if we only knew the definitive translations for Tolstoy.

>>22327979
I find Maude the best for Tolstoy

Uploaded to Lib & Z-Lib

https://lib-orv4khzxue3hkuiusqdsir23.1lib.cz/book/25596551/2d36fb

https://library.bz/fiction/uploads/7EA03350DE1BC67988C3ABD3CC5A78CD

>>22327983
They were friends with Tolstoy but are they still the best? I really want to tackle war and peace this year as well. I am never getting P and V because I hate how they read.

>>22327968
i was fucking right to pass over her translation of Karamazov because she was a woman but i still went and bought her translations of The Idiot and W&P like a retard

>>22327997
https://files.catbox.moe/9hothg.pdf

Try it out

>>22328000
I am around Part IV of C&P with P&V, it's fine.

Pairing it with 正雄米川 translation. Don't think I'm missing much. (200 Days in Japanese)

>>22327968
>One result of her "clarifications" was the elimination of the narrator's various mutterings and prevarications, which combine to lend an air of rumor and unspecifed intrigue to the narrative and thereby enhance the plot.
that bitch

>>22328011
*正夫米川

>>22328011
i was referring to Garnett's translations, not Volokhonsky

>>22328018
Garnett's considered antique

>>22328005
Translation's of French is almost like reading subtitles. (It's Mandelker Revision; Not the original Maude)

>>22328005
Reads well only problem is the French up and down to the footnotes breaks the flow.

>>22328000
Should've researched more fren.

This been great! Let's end the thread by wishing our fren who got us the book:

>> HAPPY BIRTHDAY FREN

>>22328088
thank you fren <3
glad we can all enjoy this masterpiece again

>>22327904
>>22327923
Good work fellas

>>22328162
Happy birthday anon, rest assured you made a lot of ppls day with this first pirate-able release of this expensive ass book !
Cheers

I am reading Katz & Yonekawa simultaneously & it's clear that Yonekawa's translation is on a completely different level than Katz. I don't know if Russian just translates better to Japanese or what! It almost makes Katz's translation childish.

>> Learning Russian (beginner), English >> Japanese (fluency)

>>22328363
Neither of these 3 languages are my Native, though English is my primary language in thought & speech.

>>22328363
Hm. Learning japanese is daunting because it's so much different than any other languages. I just wish I had the time and patience to go through it. How long have you been learning Japanese?

>>22328368
It's been 213 Days, till now books read (in japanese):

1. Kafka Castle, Trial & Metamorphosis
2. Crime & Punishment (till Part 4)
3. Snow Country
4. Kokoro
5. Ranpo's Shorts
6. The Brothers Karamazov (current primary fiction read)
7. Beyond Good & Evil (current phil. read)
8. Montaigne
9. The Magic Mountain (Started, not reached very far)

I just started reading, the progress was such:

I. Kanas (around 50 minutes through anki)
II. 2250 Kanji (Around 2 weeks, just meanings)
III. Core 10K (On a good day around 300; on average 100 per day, this sucked!)

I guess I was real passionate in start & due to it I did a bit too much.

>>22328368
I hardly do even 20 Russian Vocabs a Day (of core 5K) nowadays, lol!

>>22328379
My Best Tip is after around core 6K (which is nothing; it's like around 20K when it starts to feel easy) start Text+Audiobook combination.

The Protocol being:

I. Read a Para (in language you're most comfortable, say english)
II. Text+Audio in target language

Do this for at least 10-12 Good Novels. This is the fastest way to acquire language I know of.

>>22328388
After this, you'll be at least more fluent (in comprehension at least, speaking & output is more like 30-50 books) than most based folks.
After doing this, you can start reading independently without audio (you'll know what sounds good & how the language is). This will prevent any (foreign) accent.

>>22328379
>>22328388
I mainly know some Hindi(quite similar to my native tongue Nepali) and English(was taught in school). I was wishing I could add a different language to my belt but Japanese seems way too hard. But seeing you progress so far in 200 days makes me feel like I should try it as well. The worst that could happen is I get bored and give up, at best I learn a new language, with added benefit of having multiple translations of work at my disposal.

>>22328400
My 200 Days were pure hell, it's like a chore that you think will be like 20 mintues - 2 hours a day. But in reality it lasts all day. Now since last my month I feel like I can breathe again!

So be careful anon!

>>22328400
I think you should suck my cock.

>>22328404
Based anon, interrupting a FRENLY conversation.

>>22328363
To explain more, here people almost sounds American. Unlike in Yonekawa's in which they sound exquisite (like's it's Russian & not Japanese) & each voice is different (it's clear & obvious).

>> “I’m grieving for my little boy; he was almost three years old; he would have been three in three months. I’m grieving for my little boy, Father, for my son. He was my last little boy; Nikitushka and I had four sons, but none of them stayed with us, they didn’t stay. When I buried the first three, I didn’t grieve too much about them, but since I buried this last one, I can’t get him out of my mind. It’s as if he’s here standing before me, and he won’t go away. He’s shriveled up my heart. I look at his little clothes, his little shirt, his little boots, and I just start wailing. I lay them all out, each little thing, I look at them and wail. I say to Nikitushka, my husband: let me go on a pilgrimage, please, master. He’s a cabman, we’re not poor, Father, not poor; he drives his own carriage; we own it all, horses and carriage. What good is any of that now? My Nikitushka’s probably taken to drink without me; he used to take to the bottle before. Whenever I turn around he’s back at it. But I’m not thinking about him now. I’ve been away from home for almost three months. I’ve forgotten, forgotten about everything, and I don’t want to remember. What am I going to do with him now? I’m finished with him, finished, finished with everything. I don’t want to see my own house and my things ever again. I don’t want to see anything.”

This more sounds like "I've Abandoned my Child"

>>22328462
It's hilarious in Japanese (which is almost completely lost in English), like the way Fyodor Karamazov talks during the first gathering with the Elder. (Clearly the Word-Play is more clear is English like Napravnik & Ispravnik (which can be made understood with a footnote, unlike in yonekawa's where this is not so portent, but the voice is far more superior in Yonekawa's)

*sound not sounds * sounds more not more sounds *potent

I'm not focusing too much on sounding great, but getting thoughts out like a rough draft. So, forgive me fags!

& what's even crazier is that P&V reads better (like in a aesthetic way) & voices are more distinct in it. It's more closer to Yonekawas.

>> “I pity my little son, dear father, he was three years old, just three months short of three years old.1 I grieve for my little son, father, for my little son. He was the last little son left to us, we had four, Nikitushka and I, but our children didn’t stay with us, they didn’t stay. When I buried the first three, I wasn’t too sorry about them, but this last one I buried and I can’t forget him. As if he’s just standing right in front of me and won’t go away. My soul is wasted over him. I look at his clothes, at his little shirt or his little boots, and start howling. I lay out all that he left behind, all his things, and look at them and howl. Then I say to Nikitushka, that’s my husband, let me go on a pilgrimage, master. He’s a coachman, we’re not poor, father, not poor, we run our own business, everything belongs to us, the horses and the carriages. But who needs all that now? Without me, he’s taken to drinking, my Nikitushka, I’m sure he has, even before I left he’d give in to it, the minute I turned my back. And now I don’t even think about him. It’s three months since I left home. I’ve forgotten, I’ve forgotten everything, and I don’t want to remember, what can I do with him now? I’m through with him, through, I’m through with everybody. And I don’t even want to see my house now, and my things, I don’t want to see anything at all!”

>>“Listen, mother,” said the elder. “Once, long ago, a great saint saw a mother in church, weeping just as you are over her child, her only child, whom the Lord had also called to him. ‘Do you not know,’ the saint said to her, ‘how bold these infants are before the throne of God? No one is bolder in the Kingdom of Heaven: Lord, you granted us life, they say to God, and just as we beheld it, you took it back from us. And they beg and plead so boldly that the Lord immediately puts them in the ranks of the angels. And therefore,’ said the saint, ‘you, too, woman, rejoice and do not weep. Your infant, too, now abides with the Lord in the host of his angels.’ That is what a saint said to a weeping woman in ancient times. He was a great saint and would not have told her a lie. Therefore you, too, mother, know that your infant, too, surely now stands before the throne of the Lord, rejoicing and being glad, and praying to God for you. Weep, then, but also rejoice.”

To put it in short, Katz almost reads like Fag's Story Hour (easy & simple & flowing but it feels empty).
Yes, P&V is not flowing but it feels more aesthetic, the feeling it creates after reading is greater (it's more academic & less faggy)

How is the Constance Garnett translation?

>>22328513
I haven't read Garnett.

But Yonekawa is like Garnett (for japanese), like the sheer amount of translations of Russian literature he published. He was in Russia during 1918 & October Revolution & other shit!

>>22328513
I avoided her as she took too many liberties with the text.

>>22328522
Thats the translation I bought because it was the cheapest online lol

>>22328497
>To put it in short, Katz almost reads like Fag's Story Hour (easy & simple & flowing but it feels empty).
>Yes, P&V is not flowing but it feels more aesthetic, the feeling it creates after reading is greater (it's more academic & less faggy)
Katzbros, our response? Did we get utterly annihilated?