/lit/ - Literature

>come to /lit/ after a month break
>see this low iq zoomer shitpost
>leave /lit/ again

>>22310993
Physiognomy check

This is like horstmann's das untier but far gayer

>>22310996
>>22310998
>>22311007
not an argument

>>22310993
ligotti is a hylic who doesn't realize that existence and consciousness is inherently blissful and peaceful

/thread

>>22311314
You're a nigger. Ligotti certainly isn't a hylic but you wouldn't know because you haven't read The Conspiracy Against the Human Race.

>>22311310
Post chin

>>22311370
Post dick
Ligotti has a big fucking dick

>>22310993
THIS BOOK MADE ME HATE MY PARENTS AND I LOVE IT

>>22310993
it's irrefutable because its premise is as false as its refutation. no, life is not MALIGNANTLY USELESS. yes, any argument you have to the contrary is the delusion that sustains your core belief that life is neither malignant nor useless

>>22310998
does NOT pass

>>22311367
and you didn't realize that existence and consciousness is inherently blissful and peaceful

>>22311744
It is just futile and retarded. I lost the bliss the day when I was born

>>22311611
I bet you won't say it in front of him, pussy ass faggot

>>22311845
>>22311839
go outside, read Nietzsche etc etc
or just kill yourself if you hate this life, nothing of value would be lost

>>22311948
Don't tell me what to do nigger. Apply this hustle mindset to yourself and leave 4chan

>>22311839
>>22311950
>>22310993
KYS? Problem solved.

>>22311744
>existence and consciousness is inherently blissful and peaceful

>Animals fucking killing each other 24/7 in the most brutal ways
>Every single organism created to fight for survival
>Man being niggers to each other beyond written history
Really curious about this take, why do you say that?

Should I spend $600 to get a 1st edition copy of Teatro Grottesco that has the entire text (unlike every other published edition) ?

Read the Holy Bible bros

>>22312431
>>Animals fucking killing each other 24/7 in the most brutal ways
>>Every single organism created to fight for survival
You're implying that death is bad.

>>22312477
>God made animals in such a way that they have to constantly kill each other
>All of humanity is the product of Adam and Eve's fuck up and if they didn't disobey they would still be happy and none of us would exist
>Humanity is so evil that we're hard-wired to be jealous and kill our own brothers, as seen in the story of Cain and Abel
>God likes playing games with his creation, like making a father almost sacrifice his own son, making his chosen people wander aimlessly in the desert for decades, torturing an innocent man after betting with the devil
>God drowns his entire creation, starts over, still hates 99% of his kids
>War, war, war, war
>God sending himself to be tortured to death by his children

>>22312489
Death itself? Or the process of being violently torn apart by teeth and claws/ wasting away as the body succumbs to time or illness before dying?

>>22312493
Yes. Cope and seethe tranny.

>>22312503
Natalists only want to talk about death as an abstract state, but never as a physical process.

>>22312503
Are you being violently torn apart right now?

>>22310993
>Life sucks, humans should fucking die already
>Kill yourself
>NOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT LIKE THAT

>>22312537
Are you going to talk about death or are you going to tell me where did you get the idea that life is inherently blissful and peaceful?

>>22312431
It’s not peaceful all the time, or blissful all the time. But if you go after what you truly desire, and disregard your fears, your feelings about life will be transformed. And when I say this I don’t mean to imply you are different from others. Just usually an outlook on life that is bleak 99.999% of time is not about philosophy but is about your dissatisfaction with something in your own life

>>22312543
I'm not the anon that said that, but I'd like to rephrase it. Life seeks peace.

>>22312548
As a pep talk I can take this, but not as a really meaningful statement on life itself.
I can ignore all the evil and awful shit going on in the world and around me, I can even strive to change some of it, but that doesn't mean that it ceases to exist.

>>22312551
>Life seeks peace.
What does this mean in a world where animals kill each other to eat and man is hard-wired to seek war?

>>22312561
>What does this mean in a world where animals kill each other to eat and man is hard-wired to seek war?
Why are you concerned if it's not happening to you?

>>22312575
I roll with the stoic/solipsistic approach to things as a coping mechanism, but only as that.
I wouldn't make grand declarations about "life seeking peace" or about life being "inherently blissful and peaceful" if my only argument is that I'm not the guy living in the streets, or the child sex slave, or the zebra being eaten alive by hyenas.

>>22312595
Life does seek peace, and not without reason.

>>22312493
This but unironically, and there is NO metaphysical basis for morality except God which means that all of the shit he got up to was definitionally good and just. That's the real blackpill that atheists aren't ready to swallow.

>>22312603
Elaborate.

>>22312610
Without going into metaphysics, the reason is to avoid that which you yourself describe as pain. Peace is the absence of pain, worry, fear. It's common sense.

The common pessimist mistake is trying to make a judgement of value about life as a totality, where death and sometimes suffering are seen as the utmost determinants of the value of this life regardless of their actual temporal dimension. Just because life can be seen as an “unwinnable game” because death neutralizes all striving, doesn’t mean that using this particular feature of existence as the determinant of the value of life remotely reflects the actual phenomenological experience of living. There comes a point when a “delusion” (of happiness or meaning in this case), is so prevalent that to call it a delusion distorts the actual import of this state of being. Yes, all humans experience moments of existential and mortal crises, but to say these moments of suffering make up the MAJORITY of existence is demonstrably wrong.

>>22312641
Reads like self-help.
It speaks more about what a well-adjusted "milquetoast" person wants in life and not about what life itself is.
I'm sure SOME of the soldiers killing each other in Russia want that, but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of them will kill and a lot of them will die.
I say some because there's a sizeable portion of the population that doesn't want peace. Or maybe you could say that they want peace, but is peace that can only be acquired through the sacrifice of others, like a young lion chilling in the sun after massacring all the cubs of the elderly lion he stole the pride from. I can't help but see peace as a temporary and fleeting state while war is the very thing that keeps the wheels of nature spinning. There will never be a truce in nature.

Do go into metaphysics, drop some books, I want you to sell me on the idea.

>>22312667
I say those that want war seek a solipsistic peace within themselves.

>>22312691
Could they perhaps just want to kill Hohols, simple as?

>>22312646
Death is a part of it, but life itself offers an incredible amount of pain and horror. Sure it doesn't make the most of it (for most people, because some lives are truly, unimaginably wretched beyond the comprehension of a 4chan poster), but it only takes a single moment of horror and pain to wreck and entire life. A moment that can happen arbitrarily to anyone, and this is demonstrably true.
We will tell ourselves stories of people who overcame horrible events in their lives and we will admire them, a case of survivorship bias?
The pessimist would describe life as a pendulum swinging backward and forward between pain and boredom, as oases of horror scattered in a massive desert of boredom. Look at this board and you'll see what's up with the minds of people living in a "peaceful and safe" world.
Take a honest look at the world beyond your walls and you will see chaos.

t. nothing bad has ever happened in my life

>>22311370
I'll do better than that, chum.

>>22311609
Too clever by half, lifey.

>>22311948
Nah, I'm in no hurry to go to the poopoopeepee room

more like faggotti

>>22312743
>NOOOOO THAT'S NOT LE ARGUMENT

>>22310993
Ligotti refutes himself every day that he doesn't commit suicide.

>>22312543
>NOOOOOO YOU CANT JUST POINT OUT THE FUNDAMENTAL PREMISE I AM BASING MY ARGUMENT ON IS FLAWED

>>22312804
>Leaves the other half of the argument out because he knows his body is succumbing to time
heh...

>>22311007
At least Das Untier has better lore. And even then it’s just a rip off of Eduard Von Hartmann

>>22312641
Most common sense is uncommon actually. You’d be surprised at how little sense human beings make since the faculty of reasoning was discovered

>>22312423
Ignore thread? Problem solved

>>22312874
>it’s just a rip off of Eduard Von Hartmann
Retard

>>22312449
Please respond

>>22311839
You lost the bliss because you are weak and pathetic. Your job in entering this realm was to ceate beauty, that is... anything with Divine resonance. We are nothing more than the Divine Mind's "fingers" and it is the job of all conscious beings to manifest reality into being within this material realm.

Not even trying to cope with the task shows a mind which has been transfixed with the lies the world throws at you rather than seeing through them and experiencing the manifest beauty which surrounds us.

Evil is an essential component of this realm as it sharpens our senses and winnows the sheep from the lions. The low points simply show how high the high points can be. It is natural therefore, that the world full of pleasure idolising hedonists such as Ligotti, see the task as insurmountable and would rather not exist at all than act in accordance to Divine Will.

God is too convenient. Clearly a creation of the human mind, very powerful and manipulative mimetic concept but it's 100% fake.

sapient apes with complex societies is what we always have been and will probably go extinct within the next 1,000 years. I'm not here to convince anyone just letting you know if you read it in a book it's cope.

>>22312604
Moral realism is pure unadulterated cope

>>22312667
>I can't help but see peace as a temporary and fleeting state while war is the very thing that keeps the wheels of nature spinning. There will never be a truce in nature.
If you correctly understand the nature of awareness/consciousness, you realize that awareness is always blissful and peaceful, even in an animal getting eaten or in someone being tortured, their underlying awareness is peaceful and indifferent to it. The Tibteans call this the fundamental innate mind of clear light, the Samkhyists call it Purusha and the Vedantins call it Atman, you can call it whatever you like but the point remains true. When you finally grasp this and intuit it as true in your own experience then stuff like Ligotti or “oh no poop”-man is reduced to worthless dribble.

>>22314194
*worthless drivel

>irrefutable

>>22312706
You look like a white George Floyd

>*crunch crunch crunch*
>I’m an optimistic man myself.
>*cruuuunch*
>*cruncrunchcrunchcrunch*

>>22310993
Gayest nigga that ever lived. Motherfucker failed the physiognomy check no wonder he hates humanity.

>>22312770
Rare...

>>22310993
>another nigger who hasn't yet realized that Atman and Brahman are one and the same, thus putting and end to all illusions of suffering and decay
ngmi

>>22314194
>>22314087
I think the crucial difference between you guys and me is what we choose to focus our minds on. If the arguments ITT are anything to go by, then the optimist basically ignores all the bad shit while the pessimist wallows in it.
Your arguments sound completely hollow to me, they strike as religious copes that require an ungodly amount of mental gymnastics and that are only serviceable not as a statement of life itself but as a way to trudge through the shit without feeling too bad about it. Nothing wrong with that I guess, when the alternative is being a defeatist neurotic cuck.
The thing is, I can't in good conscience say things about "beauty of the Divine Will" or enter into tibetan ego death and pretend everything is alright when it clearly isn't.
I do this "exercise" often in which I watch videos of children's funerals, parents of missing kids, testimonials of rape victims, videos of people slowly dying, violent deaths, and so on, so I can hear the anguish of the people in it's rawest form. A pain so deep it goes beyond any coping mechanisms.
What could I possibly say to these people? That God is good and this is another challenge? That they should get into Buddhism and forget about it? I understand that shifting my focus is necessary to not go insane, but I probably will never be able to reconcile this shit storm with any kind of noble ideals or higher purpose. And you can philosophize on your own terms all you want, but the truth is that you can't speak for an animal being eaten alive until you find yourself in it's shoes.
I listened to Peter Soto's Buyers Market, and I thought about how it is healthy to admit that the suffering of some is beyond the understanding and capacity of empathy of most people. Mostly as a defense mechanism.

>>22312449
if you can and really want to, go for it. in any case maybe you can resell it later, as that's a rare item

>>22314239
I look like this and say this

>>22314432
I'm scared to now since I just saw Noctuary got republished, which is normally like $250 used.

>>22315026
Crunchy nigga

>>22310993
What's the point of posting the book without saying anything about it? Obviously, you like the book; why just come right out and say that?

If these threads are to argue with people, at least put forward a position that will draw people in. Why hide behind the book? It would be much more provocative and would get more people to respond if you said:
>"This book is right; life is meaningless; life is suffering. Wouldn't it be such a relief to be the last person alive and know that no one will suffer after you? Skyrim was a terrible game because you can't side with the Thalmor, awaken the Towers, and destroy the world."

Again, what's the point of these threads?

It's a lazy way to say that you like a book, and it reveals a cowardice because you want to discuss the book yet are too intellectually insecure to actually argue the intellectual positions. The OPs of these threads are intellectual voyeurs, sitting in their cuck chairs waiting for other people to handle the meat of the intellectual discussion.

Anyway, Liggotti is right; it would be a relief if OP died because it would make the world have less suffering by removing a source of these retarded ass threads.

What are Ligotti's best short stories? Also I want to read Ligotti's My Work is Not Yet Done but it's apparently hard to find. What's the best way to get it, preferably free?

>>22314273
I would gladly beat you up and then watch you wither and wallow on the ground like the effeminate little worm you are, only to tell you to just realize that Brahman and Atman are the same and your suffering is an illusion.

You can talk the talk, alright. Let's see you walk the walk.

If Brahman and Atman are the same and suffering is a mere illusion, why the proscription of ahisma? Why desist from hurting others if their hurt is illusionary?
If suffering is an illusion, then so is pleasure.

>>22314328
I fully agree. It's easy to be strong with the suffering of others, even for a despicable 4chan low-life like the Anon you're replying to.

>>22310993
>aaah life is nothing but a limited succession of pain and suffering which we trick ourselves into having meaning
>is an obese food addict
it's so blatantly pathetic that you can be assured a woman did this to him

>>22317149
>>is an obese food addict
Need some sauce for this one, cheif

>>22317152
>>22311611
the double chin is a great indicator of a weak, infantile mind. also moobs. imagine them jiggling as he writes out his little theories, tears in his eyes.

>>22317156
Damn, nigger what are you doing on a /lit/ forum then? Go back to your homosexual rathole >>>/fit/

>>22317162
>in order to enjoy reading you must be a completely ineffectual slob with zero self discipline
chins up, brother. at least you'll die sooner than fit people. probably from something painful like a heart attack or stroke but at least you'll finally be free of this grim torture that means nothing.

>>22317156
>>22317216
I lift 3 times a week and agree with Ligotti.

>>22317216
>ineffectual slob with zero self discipline
Kek, Ligotti is a fucking retired editor and a contemporary authority on Horror/weird lit. He is one of four living USA writers published by Penguin Classics.

I would like to die young while I am filled with energy. Only faggots want to grow old.

>>22314328
>>22315433
HQ posts

>>22310993
Why is Robert Anton Wilson on the cover..?

>>22316923
>If Brahman and Atman are the same and suffering is a mere illusion, why the proscription of ahisma?
Because it supports a more wholesome society and indirectly supports peoples spiritual practice and progress towards liberation
>Why desist from hurting others if their hurt is illusionary?
Because it generates negative karma that can lead to your subtle body transmigrating into a fly larvae or plant etc in the next life
>If suffering is an illusion, then so is pleasure.
indeed, everything but your own immediate non-discursive and non-conceptual partless self-awareness is an illusion

>the conspiracy against the human race
>with a new preface
damn ligotti got RHYMES

>>22316250
Libgen is the best way to get it, obviously. I don't have enough to form an opinion on what's his best work but "My Work is Not Yet Done" is a great place to start. The thing I remember the most is a story where the protagonist is transformed into a reddit revenge fantasy with anime reality-powers with one or two paragraphs describing how he now wears all black, which was strangely entertaining, and one story in which the protagonist was a urban explorer, VERY kino.
Have fun, anon. Conspiracy is unironically his worst, even if most discussed, work.

>>22316250
I love My Work Is Not Yet Done

also Gas Station Carnivals is probably my favorite short story of his

>>22313552
hes reciting what the book suggests... cmon man be a martyr

>>22320006
>hes reciting what the book suggests
If you haven't read the book.

>>22320067
it is however, the ultimate suggestion of pessimism. so why wont you kys?

>>22320092
Pessimistsisters... not like this...

>>22314328
>parents of missing kids
Continue to live and keep their child in their memories.
> testimonials of rape victims
Continue to live and embrace misandry.
>videos of people slowly dying, violent deaths
Lucky survivors will usually find meaning in their suffering and make bank on their new book.
>Animals killed en masse
Only solution is humanity going vegan, but only Indians would do that.
Of course any living thing would consider suicide when the pain is unbearable, i.e dolphins biting their tongues in captivity, but for the most part, life wants to live, happily. I know, unbelievable right?

But frankly, I think you're being really condescending to those who suffer.

>>22320092
>it is however, the ultimate suggestion of pessimism
It isn't. Read the book for once nigger

>>22320264

>>22310993
I love how pessimism is so utterly irrefutable that the only response its 70iq detractors can come up with is "y no u kys". Like an emotional roastie devoid of all thought or argument.

>>22320367
So you would rather continue to exist and be hyperconcious of this "suffering" ? Either kys or don't. Inconclusive faggot.

>>22321914
>Nooooo you can't be a pessimist and afraid of death at the same time!!!!!
Are optimists extremely afraid of death then? Is that why they tend to be religious?

>>22321934
No such thing as a pessimist who is afraid of death. Theyre just faggy optimists who tend to be gloomy. Real pessimists rope themselves.

I think that suffering is a fact of life, but so is the will to live. The will to live is something that struggles against suffering, rather than being the slave of it. Anything that struggles to live does so because there is something in this world that it desires to still experience, even if it no longer has the capability. This is because life is inherently good. Living is something that is done to spite the suffering and horror in the world. Life is the light in the darkness. It brings with it pain, but it also infuses the void with value and meaning. To be against life is to let the darkness win, to take all the good of the world and surrender it to nothingness. It's better to spit at the bad and fight against it, as our instinct calls us to do.

>>22321989
I like this spin on things.
We should be honest with how grim things are, but also admit that if we haven't killed ourselves is because there is something more to life than all the shit and the fear of death.
Even if it's hedonism, life is like a box of chocolates. You never know if you're gonna get an orgasm or your lose your eyesight in a freak accident.

>>22322027
I think I'd qualify as an optimist (maybe) but I suppose I'm not a complete one. I don't think that suicide is necessarily wrong in all circumstances, for example. In the majority it is, but in some cases I think it can be humane to allow it. Maybe that's just the realist side of me.

This book gave me an existential crisis. I will never forget the analogy of humans as puppets who cut their strings and dance on

>>22322221
Antinatalists like to say that the will to live is something like a trick that our body and mind plays on us to render us predisposed to life, whereas if we examined the situation rationally we would not be. But our body and mind are an integral part of our identity. There isn't a self, at least not that I can experience while alive, that exists in separation from the body and mind. So the impetus to live is part of what we are as humans. I don't think it's comparable to a puppet. If a puppet can puppet itself then it isn't a puppet.

>>22322240
>If a puppet can puppet itself then it isn't a puppet.
Then what is it? That's the horror of it, I forget the exact phrasing he uses but it is to say that humans are unnatural beings

>>22322258
At a minimum we're autonomous creatures like other animals. When he says that we are unnatural, is he referring to our capability for rationality and self-reflection?

>>22322266
The arising of consciousness, yea

>>22322269
Assuming this is actually a unique phenomenon in the universe (which is not knowable), I don't know why it would be unnatural. Of course if we are speaking on materialist terms, then anything that occurs within the world is natural, though I assume that's not what he means. Is the state of the lower animal actually preferable? Is that lack of existential dread a price worth paying to never create or enjoy art, to never appreciate the beauty in the world, to never feel the deeper emotions -- e.g. romantic love -- felt only by humans? The lower state would not free one from all negative life experiences either. It would however remove our capability to attempt an understanding of them.

>>22322295
>Is the state of the lower animal actually preferable?
To be fair, orca and chimps torture so not necessarily
>Is that lack of existential dread a price worth paying to never create or enjoy art, to never appreciate the beauty in the world, to never feel the deeper emotions -- e.g. romantic love -- felt only by humans?
We do bring a lot of evil and ugliness into it as well, but maybe that's the antinatalist's problem - not knowing love

>>22314226
Thank you fren

>>22312493
>God sending himself to be tortured to death by his children

Based God

*has a good day in your path*
Boom, refuted

"The Dead" by Rupert Brooke

These hearts were woven of human joys and cares,
Washed marvellously with sorrow, swift to mirth.
The years had given them kindness. Dawn was theirs,
And sunset, and the colours of the earth.
These had seen movement, and heard music; known
Slumber and waking; loved; gone proudly friended;
Felt the quick stir of wonder; sat alone;
Touched flowers and furs and cheeks. All this is ended.

There are waters blown by changing winds to laughter
And lit by the rich skies, all day. And after,
Frost, with a gesture, stays the waves that dance
And wandering loveliness. He leaves a white
Unbroken glory, a gathered radiance,
A width, a shining peace, under the night.

>>22323701
"Thanatopsis" by William Cullen Bryant

>>22323330
Not so fast

>>22312867
>Are you going to talk about death or are you going to tell me where did you get the idea that life is inherently blissful and peaceful?
Even Death is blissful, in all forms for all life exists in its totality as an expression of the manifold wills that impose itself upon the experienced. Life is excess manifest, by nature delectable unto its conclusion in which the procresses which fuelled it repeat themselves endlessly. And life in particular is unrestrained and will repeat itself forever into the abyss of time, transforming that otherwise stagnant. In life the anticipation of the future exists foremost, and is defined by escaping the prisons of the past and current - will serving as that exceptional force.

>>22222222

The problem with you guys is you are still viewing life from a biblical context of good and evil. therefore you still see evil around you, you’re just like the deluded catholic who tells their followers everyday they’re going to hell.

>>22311611
>Billions must die

>>22312493
When you put it like that, He does seem like a little bit of an asshole.

>>22312604
So wait, my suffering is good and just?