/lit/ - Literature

>>22310623
I think the typical reply will reference his response to John the Baptist before his baptism-- suffer it to be so. Christ also said that if he referred to himself as this that or the other it would be untrue, immediately after Peter called him the Christ. Just guessing here, not heavily invested.

>>22310623
Also, anon, if you're Muslim, do you know of any good scholarly source on Islamic Angelology? Been looking for quite some time

>>22310623
Because God and Jesus are separate entities. God has always been, and Jesus was his first creation.

Because nobody knows that he is God yet, it is in the narrative you stupid dolt

>>22310779
>Jesus was his first creation.
citation needed, LARPfag

>>22310663
Henry Corbin has something on Islamic angelology if I remember correctly, but don't know if it is available in English.

>>22310789
JWanon we call upon you!

>>22310623
The twenty verses where he affirms he is the Son of God

>>22310779
>Because God and Jesus are separate entities
The bibl literally argues the opposite.

>>22310846
>>22310786
>>22310650
>>22310663
>>22310779
None of these is a good answer to why you just called him good. Jesus is now staring sngrily at you, waiting for a proper answer. Why did you call him good?

>>22310977
Because he is sinless and the perfect servant of the Father. It is not his human will, but God’s will which he does

>>22310623
Yeshua, you fucking died and apocalypse didn't happen. Rome still rules and your god didn't judge anyone. You're a damn schizo.

>>22310623
>talking to people not of sound mind
couldn't be me

>>22311001
> There's only one good, God.

>>22310789
In the beginning was the Word…

>>22310623
The bible is a DIY step by step on becoming god. It's written referencing a guy who did it - Jesus. When he accepted everyone's sins he became god. therefore Jesus = good and then we made imagery with him on the cross to represent that which is kind of a lot fucked up.

>>22311134
wrong, try again

>>22310977
Did He get angry at Thomas when he called Jesus "my lord and my God?"

>>22311247
>John
not canon

>>22311269
Sure, dude. Whatever you say.

>>22310623
> No one is good but God.

>>22310623
nah dude you're pretty cool. don't be so hard on yourself.

>>22310623
STOP SHITTING UP /LIT/ WITH THESE OFF TOPIC THREADS

>>22310623
fuck off hobo

>>22310623
I am calling you good, because no one is good but God, therefore I am saying and acknowledging you are God

>>22311427
I think this is more appropriate for /his/ but the Bible is literature.

fuck

The trinity really is the most retarded theological doctrine in the history of religion. A literal logical contradiction made up centuries later that's found nowhere in and directly contradicted by the religion's own sacred texts.

>>22310650
Explain

>>22310623
Here's the actual interpretation:
>Jesus is claiming to be God
Explanation:
Notice how Jesus never said that he wasn't good; he never said, "I'm not good." He just claimed that the only person that was good was God.

Everyone knows that Jesus is good; therefore, he is God (the rest of the Bible supports this).


Basically he's saying
>I'm either not good, or I'm God
The rest is left as an exercise for the reader (hint, he's obviously good so the former is ruled out; this means he is God)

If you too want to learn to understand the Bible, get saved first:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0y_toNT0zQ

>>22313119
"I and my Father are one." - John 10:30

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." - I John 5:7

"That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;"
- Colossians 2:2

>directly contradicted by the religion's own sacred texts.
Ok, what do you think is the contradiction?

>>22313119
POV: You haven't read the Bible, but you have a strong opinion on the Bible (like most people)

>>22313174
>le read meme
So tiresome

>>22313173
>"I and my Father are one." - John 10:30
Doesn't teach the trinity.
>"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." - I John 5:7
Ah yes, the Johannine comma does teach the trinity, and is universally recognised as a later interpolation. Had to be interpolated because there was indeed no mention of the trinity in the Bible otherwise, and trinitarians needed to invent scriptural justification they didn't have.
>"That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;"- Colossians 2:2
Again, doesn't teach the trinity.
People have been killed on charges of heresy for agreeing with the literal interpretation of John 10:30 and Colossians 2:2. Show me where the Trinitarian doctrine in the Nicene creed is stated in the Bible.

>>22313174
>I disagree with you so you mustn't have read the book!!!

>>22313218
>Show me where the Trinitarian doctrine in the Nicene creed is stated in the Bible.
If you're referring to consubstantiality, look at John 10:30 and 1 John 5:7 as already quoted.

If you need prooftexts from the Bible for the divinity of Christ, there are too many to count. A few examples are Philippians 2:6, John 1:1, John 5:18, John 8:58, Colossians 1:16, Colossians 2:9, etc.

>>22313238
>If you're referring to consubstantiality
No, I'm asking for an explicit teaching of the doctrine of the trinity. Consubstantially was actually invented and defended by the modalist Sabellians, who are considered heretical by modern trinitarians. Nothing in these quotes demonstrate Nicene trinitarianism.
>If you need prooftexts from the Bible for the divinity of Christ
Of course the New Testament claims the divinity of Jesus. I'm talking about dogmatic trinitarianism, which is a million miles down the road from Jesus simply being a divine figure .

>>22313257
>a divine figure .
That's not a Biblical concept. The Lord our God is one Lord, and beside Him there is not any other. See the Ten Commandments for example, or as Jesus said,

"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these."
(Mark 12:29-31)

So you see from this that there's no room for "a divine figure" that isn't the Lord. In Psalm 96:5, which is also in the Old Testament, all other false gods are said to be idols and nothing more.

>I'm talking about dogmatic trinitarianism
Yeah, so like 1 John 5:7 or John 10:30. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit being pre-existent of the world, being the Creator and co-equal in majesty and divinity. The New Testament teaches that Jesus Christ is our Lord from the beginning, that's why He identifies Himself as such, for example in John 8:58. "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

That's referring to Jehovah, who said in the book of Exodus, "I AM THAT I AM."

>Consubstantially was actually invented and defended by the modalist Sabellians
Not actually. Modalists deny the distinct personhood of the triune Godhead. They don't hold to consubstantiality, they simply claim there is only one Person appearing in different forms, which doesn't require or derive from such an explanation.

But what does the New Testament for example say about this?

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
(Hebrews 1:8)

"For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
(2 Peter 1:17)

>>22313272
You haven't understood the point I'm making. You've given quotes which seem to indicate Jesus is God, and you've given quotes were Jesus is obviously a dude doing stuff. But you still haven't demonstrated any explicit statement of Jesus as man-god in the dogmatic trinitarian sense, other than one universally accepted as forgery. Because the Nicene formulation was invented almost 300 years after the birth of Christianity.

And no, Sabellius himself developed the concept of consubstantiality. First Nicene borrowed it from him (this made many bishops uneasy). So giving a text for consubstantiality says nothing about proving Nicene orthodoxy. The inventors of the concept are themselves considered heretics.

>>22313561
Next I would write out the text for Philippians 2:6, John 1:1, John 5:18, John 8:58, Colossians 1:16, Colossians 2:9, and so on. Colossians 2:9 is especially strong for the teaching that Jesus is fully God in addition to being fully man. But if someone has already denied everything that you have, they will also deny and contradict the rest as well, no matter how much of the Scripture is posted. 1 John 5:7 is part of Scripture too, by the way. I know that doesn't suit you and your preferences, but it's no reason to get bent out of shape over.

>>22313257
We are to be baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spiritual pet Matthew 28:19. If you acknowledge the Father as God, on your view, how is it not blasphemy then to elevate the Son and Spirit to the Father’s status? In other words the teaching of the Trinity is clear as day.

>>22313652
Spirit per****

>>22310623

>>22310623
>As Genesis shows us, the origin of sin the world is not knowledge, as is often said (as though God were interdicting our intellectual development, which would be absurd); it is knowledge of good and evil. In this context knowledge means decision. What is not acceptable to God is that we should decide on our own what is good and what is evil. Biblically, the good is in fact the will of God. That is all. What God decides, whatever it may be, is good. If then we decide what the good is, we substitute our will for God's. We construct morality when we say and do what is good, and it is then that we are sinners. To elaborate a moral system is to show oneself to be a sinner before God, not because the conduct is bad, but because, even if it is good, another good is substituted for the will of God.

>>22310623
I kneel

>>22314109
Was thinking about this the other day, maybe I should give Ellul a chance.
Any recs?

>>22313135
This post literally explains the OP accurately and everyone is ignoring it. Telling

>>22313135
>>22315769
>um, actually, what Jesus meant was the exact OPPOSITE of what he said

>>22315776
It’s the way you read it that’s wrong.
>why do
>you
>call me good
Vs
>why do you call me
>good
God alone is good simply. All else is good with the goodness of God. The man was flattering Jesus, and Jesus, being God, knew this. So, he asked the young man to consider the meaning of what he was saying, but the young man was too attached to his possessions to recognize God. He could see goodness in things, but not Goodness itself. He sought God in self interest.

>>22315794
>Why do you call ME good? No one is good but God
Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and God. It is simply a humble saying of a man who prays to God. This is clearly the more plausible reading, compared to Jesus implying he is God while also praying and asking from God.

>He sought God in self interest
This is a grave assumption. He merely called Jesus 'good teacher'. If there is no distinction between Jesus and God, then why did Jesus object? Because Jesus isn't God

>>22315776
Proverbs 23:9

>>22315810
>This is clearly the more plausible reading
t. a natural man that does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him. neither can he know them, for they are spiritually discerned.

>>22315812
>>22315814
Is the Holy Spirit opposed to common sense?

>>22315763
The Technological Society is fundamental for understanding the modern world. In his theological works I can recommend The Subversion of Christianity. It is an analysis of the theological corruption of Christianity by its association with political power.

>>22315825
>Yes, my interpretation is common sense despite it contradicting the rest of the Bible
>Never mind that I have no understanding of basic Biblical doctrines and ignore the many places in Scripture that directly teach the Trinity

The Ethiopian eunuch was humble enough to admit he couldn't understand the Bible on his own. But you, being wise in your own conceit, have less hope than a regular fool.

>>22310623


To what? He was talking to a "life coach".

>>22315838
>it contradicting the rest of the Bible
I am not the first to make the observation that the Bible contradicts itself

>the many places in Scripture that directly teach the Trinity
Where?

>>22315881
There are no contradictions in the King James Bible.

If you believe that, name one.

>Where?
Have you participated in the thread at all?
>>22313173

>>22315891
>Have you participated in the thread at all?
No mention of the Holy Spirit. Seems to me the Bible teaches 2, not 3

>name one contradiction
Mark 10: A man asks Jesus how he can obtain eternal life. Jesus says follow the commandments, You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery etc.

Galatians 2: Paul says, "for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

>>22315891
>>22315908
Also, Johannine Comma, the most well known biblical addition

>>22310623
> b-b-but you are God...

>>22315920
Jesus' disciples never believed he was God, just read James

>>22315908
>t. I don't understand the Bible and I don't understand context so I attribute my stupidity to errors in the Scripture
You're a moron and are not worth talking to. So this will be my last reply to you.

First of all, Jesus wasn't lying when he said one could go to heaven by keeping the commandments. If you have kept all of God's commandments from the day you were born all the way until you died, you would enter heaven by your merit. This is THEORETICALLY a way to get in. I say theoretically, because nobody on earth has ever fulfilled that requirement except Jesus, God manifest in the flesh, himself. Because nobody else could get into heaven on their own merit (for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God as stated in Romans), Jesus had to take that punishment we deserved for us to have a chance to get into heaven, by faith in his sacrifice. Despite this extremely loving sacrifice, people have always tried to work their way into heaven even though they were not able to PRACTICALLY/REALISTICALLY do so, which is why Paul brings up that if people could actually work their way into heaven then Jesus died for nothing, which is also true.

I'll throw you a bonus and answer you another question(which you won't appreciate):
>If Jesus (in Mark 10) knew this man was not able to work his way into heaven, why did Jesus tell him to keep the commandments to get into heaven?

Jesus in his divine, as he is God, wisdom knew that the rich young ruler wasn't ready to put his faith in Jesus and was rather eager to put it in himself, to put in his own works (which is why the ruler even asked what GOOD thing he must do to enter heaven, implying that he could do good things to get to heaven). So Jesus used the law as it was designed, as a schoolmaster to salvation by grace through faith in Him. Jesus brought up the law so that the ruler would realize, "Hey, I'm not good enough to enter heaven by my own merit so I need to find another way." The ruler finally got the message, that he wasn't good enough to enter heaven, when Jesus told him to sell everything he had and follow him.

Do you now understand?
(The answer is of course not. You have a hardened heart and are an unbeliever. You are too proud to understand the Scriptures even when explained to you)

Hopefully, someone more worthy can gain insight from this.

>>22315913
>It was added to the Bible
t. some heretics I believe over the Bible

>>22315990
what if I want the truth tho???

>>22315999
check em trips

>>22315999
You don't want the truth. Do you know how I know? Because you've rejected truth being served to you on a literal silver platter, basic truths such as the Trinity.

The queen of Sheba travelled furlongs to hear the wisdom of Solomon. She had no airplanes or cars or A/C. Yet here you are, getting wisdom spoonfed to you and you reject it.

>In b4 "Haha, you said that last post was your last reply but you replied just now
That was in context of a proper doctrinal discussion. This post here is my last reply to any of your posts.


Enjoy hell.

>>22315990
>Jesus had to take that punishment we deserved for us to have a chance to get into heaven, by faith in his sacrifice
"The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."(Ezekiel 18) What makes you think God would let a perfect thing suffer and die for the sins of everyone? This is injustice and contradicts the OT

>Hey, I'm not good enough to enter heaven by my own merit so I need to find another way.
Is it so hard to follow the commandments?

>The ruler finally got the message, that he wasn't good enough to enter heaven, when Jesus told him to sell everything he had and follow him.
This does not make sense. After the incident, Jesus says too his disciples that the rich cannot enter heaven. Meaning Jesus meant this literally, that to have eternal life, one must forsake all that is wordly. Jesus did not say "Believe in me and my eventual sacrifice for you". If this is what he meant, then why didn't he just say it?

>t. some heretics I believe over the Bible
Muslims respond to every attack and defend their scripture to the best of their ability. Many christians unfortunately just close their ears and not engage, because it is so painfully obvious that they are wrong

>>22316015
you're right I don't want the truth
yet I am wise in my own 4chan

>>22316015
>Yet here you are, getting wisdom spoonfed to you and you reject it.
Wisdom does not proudly claim truth while never engaging

>>22316015
nigger i've survived hell already

>>22310623
superman does good, you did well :)

>>22316015
>>22316027
sorry but if billy mays dying doesn't strike a chord with my autsitc brain about religion and I search for the truth of life and death on my own that puts me on the tier of jesus christ provided I can do something idk