/lit/ - Literature

>>22303544

>>22303539
koran is only good for burning

>>22303539
Is there such a thing as esoteric Islam? If so what is it? Enlighten me, friend.

>>22303539
>not even one mistake
all the mooooslime scribbles are false
it is just propaganda to get the sand monkeys
all ook ooking in unison
worshipping their crazy ass violent fake"prophet"

>>22303604
Tariqatiyya/sufism

>>22303612
Does the Shia/Sunni divide still apply here? I'm getting mixed signals from what I can find online.

>>22303618
No, shias and sunnis often follow the same sufi order

>>22303539
It’s a coomer religion. If it were true, all men would be damned.

>>22303539
How inbred do you have to be to not realize how stupid you look going on 4chan to shill islam? That's legit screaming drooling retard level.

>>22304285
He's just on the bleeding edge. After xtianity loses it's contrarian edge soon Islam is the wave of the future. After that it will be back to atheism I can't see this place going Hindu

>>22303595
An off the topic question, could you please show your desktop/battlestation, please?

>Surah 112 Al-Ikhlas
>God has 99 names
>Those names are in the created order
>Those 99 names, and indeed every prayer to God, cannot refer to God

>>22303539
Pisslam is trash and is dying out in many parts of the world. What worries me though is the growth of Christcuckery, which I find equally distasteful. I would prefer non-Abrahamic ethnoreligions to grow instead.
Also, I don't like the idea of Europeans converting to a foreign tradition. I don't want you in my religious place of worship or practice.
I just don't like you, but I do not consider you "inferior".
If the Trinity doesn't make sense to you, then go with Unitarianism if you still want to stick to Abrahamic garbage.

>>22303539
>condoning child slavery

Islam literally makes you dumber, trying to contort your brain into accepting it as truth is as bad leaded petrol.

>>22304303
phishing eh?
here ya go

>>22304273
>>22304285
>>22304351
>>22304365
>>22304370
If 4chan dislikes islam that means its good.

>>22304803
4chan is counterculture, if you take that attitude you just end up parotting the the msm

>>22304803
>still condoning child slavery

>>22303544
All abrahamists should be killed

>>22304803
You're on 4chan right now, too inbred to realize it?

>>22303539
does flat earth count as a mistake?

>>22304297
Unironically though. Jay Dyer and other tradlarp e-celebs have tested the waters a few times on this. They're all waiting for the word to flip.

>>22303595
Damn, Allah insecure af

>>22305682
I would have thought so a year ago, but I think the e-Muslims kind of blew it with Andrew Tate.

>>22304803
kek, tha's actually a good argument

not even close

>>22307186
every country run by islam is a shithole
without oil they would have dried up and blown away years ago

>>22303539
>And still people deny the divine origin of this book.
It's obviously supernatural and from demons. All Qu'rans should be burned.

>>22307188
>>22307186
Huh, maybe shitty people are naturally drawn to Islam more than Islam corrupting the minds of otherwise non-shitty-people? What a fucking mess.

I love how even after 1500 threads of seething not even one mistake was found in this anon's posts. and still people deny the divine origins of his threads

>>22303539
>record the schizophrenic ramblings of an illiterate desert autist
>wow, there's tons of ways to interpret what this means therefore there's no mistake here!
Try getting rid of the Abrahamic brainworms in your skull.

>>22306219
>ad hominem is a good argument
???

I don't like Mohammed cause he drank camel piss and fucked goats, simple as.

>>22307343
>The Prophet (ﷺ) said: “Cursed is he who goes in unto (has sex with in other words in Arabic) an animal.” [3] Musnad Ahmad Chapter 3 pg 266

I deny the divine origin because I dont believe in Islam, simple as that, not my thing bro

Why are muslims so desperate to get me into their shitty religion its like having a friend who wont shut up about a god awful book or anime

>>22303539
When did Islam switch to the modern victim mindset? They used to be so tough about everything, now it’s all whining in the media (social or otherwise) about how they dindu. There’s still some holdouts that go straight for the old school method of death threats but that has become kind of a joke and is dying out. Are Andrew Tate and throwing billions at beyonce and Ronaldo for cultural relevance their last hope?

>>22307470
>When did Islam switch to the modern victim mindset?
It’s kind of funny. One of their main selling points is they their religion is the only alternative I liberalism, but they seem to have internalized many of its worst qualities.
Their argument could only be appealing if you your issues with liberalism are the tolerance of gays, women having autonomy, and financial speculation as we now know it is bad. If your problems with liberalism are either related to something else or are more radical, they have nothing to offer.

>>22307494
Another thing that's funny about Islam being against liberalism is the 72 virgins thing. Viewing having lots of sex being your literal heavenly reward is materialistic and degenerate in the extreme. Every description of Muslim heaven that I've come across is no different than a godless hedonist's version of paradise.
https://aboutislam.net/counseling/ask-about-islam/description-paradise/
>Trees bearing fruits of all kinds, and of types we have not seen or imagined will be there for those who strived to do their best in this life.

The trees will bend their branches down for believers to reach them. All we need to do is to long for a particular one.

Rivers of wine that does not intoxicate, rivers of honey, the purest of waters, and milk are all waiting for believers to enjoy.

Eternal youth will be the state of existence for those who inhabit Paradise. The food of Paradise is so pure that bodies will not produce any waste after consuming it, only sweat whose fragrance is musk.

>>22307494
>One of their main selling points is they their religion is the only alternative I liberalism, but they seem to have internalized many of its worst qualities
What happens when Saudi completely capitulates and becomes just a Middle Eastern version of Nevada? I recently read Submission by Houellebecq and as time goes on the idea of a clear-thinking, assertive Muslim leader with respect for European ideals and culture just seems laughable. There will be no Ben Abbes in real life, and Islam will deteriorate slowly but surely upon contact with Western modernity. You see it in Muslims in the West, even the ones who were born back home. Although a sizeable proportion maintain their traditional values and customs, a lot of the males take to gang culture, drug use, promiscuous sex etc. This holds to a lesser extent with the females, perhaps due to societal pressure. I personally think that a new and altogether different religion will rise out of the ashes of Christendom, perhaps with a technological bent. I think Houellebecq also discusses this but I haven’t read his other works yet.

>>22307819
The Saudi cope is truly a thing to behold. If anyone was posting on /sp/ around the time of the WC you’ll know exactly what I mean.
>the country and it’s government are ordained by God
>love their Muslim brothers who would never attack them because holy lands
>US is the great satan and any involvement with them is absolutely evil
>Israel is the lesser devil and must be destroyed
>Saudi football team one of the best in the world since they surprised Argentina
>reality is the exact opposite in every facet, US Allies and business partners, rely on US support, open secret they’re allies with Israel, Iran just chomping at the bit to fuck them up, western values and systems constantly being adopted for the sake of enriching the country but often just to enrich the monarchy, football team gets fucked up in every other game they play
>sees no issues

>>22307842
Yes it is really a sight to behold. The Crown Prince of Saudi, MBS, and the President of the UAE, MBZ, are both most likely crypto-secularists. As long as you don’t outwardly critique the government, you can basically do whatever you want in the UAE, Dubai especially. MBS spent one of his birthdays partying on a private island somewhere in the Caribbean IIRC and flew in literal plane loads of prostitutes for him and his friends. Concerts and parties with free-mixing of the sexes are starting to occur in Saudi. There are Hindu temples dotted throughout the Gulf (with the exception of Saudi) and Hindu idols are sold openly. All of the Gulf rulers regularly imprison conservative-leaning clerics who may question their policies and they are making efforts to curtail religious laws. They spend billions of USD in order to lure non-Muslim soccer players to play in their domestic leagues while conducting a war against fellow Muslims in Yemen. If there is an Islamic uprising, it won’t be in the Gulf, or Turkey, or anywhere else desu. Perhaps Iran, although it seems the Mullahs are losing their grip on power.

>>22303564
cope.

>>22305695
>allah
It's very clearly written by 80iq goatfuckers, for 80iq goatfuckers.

>>22307819
It would be some thing for some Muslims acquiesce to liberal values, but it’s interesting to see those who claim to stand against the forces of liberalism partaking in the same kind of discourse central to it. I think that the problem is not that the Saudis or any of these Muslims are selling out, but that Islam itself is not inherently opposed to liberalism, at most it it opposes the excess that currently exist in liberal some liberal societies. The kind of Muslim societies that would embrace liberalism will not have those features, but they will still be liberal societies in every other sense.

>>22307965
>The kind of Muslim societies that would embrace liberalism will not have those features, but they will still be liberal societies in every other sense.
How long do you think this would hold? Isn’t this what Europe / the USA looked like up until the 19th century? I think societies cannot stay in one state forever, and change is inevitable. Are there any authors that explore this type of historical development? I remember thinking as a kid ‘why didn’t the Roman Republic just remain the way it was perpetually?’.

Non sequitur

>>22307470
>When did Islam switch to the modern victim mindset? They used to be so tough about everything, now it’s all whining in the media (social or otherwise) about how they dindu
This is a Western(read: Jewish) psyop. Three letter agencies are creating this narrative in order to pacify Muslims.

>>22308448
And that's a good thing!

>>22306025
Just because there's buyers doesn't mean that there's sellers.
Just because there's sellers doesn't mean that there's buyers.

Sensitive Young White Men want The Secret Ortho LARP Debate Discord, not Andrew Tate. Nafris want Andrew Tate, not The Secret Ortho LARP Debate Discord. The trouble is finding out how to bridge the gap. The undesirable outcome is what Hindus do, where they just have their own separate sphere (complete with "jeet blackpillers" and "redpilled dharmabros"), what these people and their backers want is to have a single ecumene where nerds from across the globe can quibble over minutiae. The actual consumers of the content don't want it, however.

>>22308099
>How long do you think this would hold?
Not him, but it's already collapsed. Liberalism defeated Islam centuries ago. What we're witnessing is an attempt at figuring out how to integrate them into Liberalism. Modern Islam, the Islam of al-Ghazali, al-Wahhab, and Qutb, is just bedouin flavored unitarian Protestantism. It was created to act as a vehicle to integrate the Islamic world into Liberalism.

You're spot on about Europe in the 19th-century btw, Protestantism exists for the same reason.

>>22308448
I’m generally not conspiracy brained, if there’s things so far beyond my control that the only evidence of its existence is that there is no evidence… I see no reason to have an emotional reaction over it as an individual.
Now that being said… if you really wanted to fuck up a child.. do everything you could to make sure they failed in life.. giving them this mindset that:
>I’m a victim
>nothing I can do about my problems
>it’s over
>never stood a chance due to my “not being a chad/being X race/ being a woman/being gay”
>not my fault I failed
Is exactly the thing to do. Again, I’m not conspiracy brained.. I think it’s just the natural outcome of a society that gamifies and monetizes everything.. including emotions and all our base desires. But the current culture and mindset of young people is 100% going to have serious repercussions. I’m not even a very religious person, but in todays climate I think anyone with kids is just better off picking a church from a hat and sticking to it. Make sure they’re raised with a foundation that, even if it’s not ideal, won’t lead them to live a life of being a miserable, agency-less blob of hypersocialized misery.

>>22303604
Ismailism is batini islam
Sufism (individuals who undergo tasawuff) is batini islam
Shiism is both non-batni but affirms some batni realities without being batni
Sunni-sufism is batini

>>22304803
Kek true

>>22307798
You need some Seyyed Hossein Nasr

>>22308923
Ok so batini islam includes both ismailism and sufism which includes sunni-sufism. Would shiism be "exoteric" islam then?

>>22308964
Sufism is just muslims who undergo something called tasawuff. They can be any sect since sufism is not a sect, however most sufis tend to be sunnis since traditional sunnism is very exoteric.

Shiism (twelverism, imamism, ithna asharis) is interesting in that it covers both exoteric and esoteric islam, however it is mostly exoteric but affirms some esoteric elements. Perhaps it is best desrcibed as exoteric but also provides the "spiritual high" that esotericism provides.

There also ibadism which is exoteric

>>22308633
>I’m a chad
>I can solve my problems
>it’s never over
>I stand a chance due to being based
>I am accountable for both my failures and success

>>22308977
huh? wrong.

>>22309007
He's right

>>22307186
>>22307241
Cringe

>>22303539
Anyone who studies Abrahamism's roots deeply enough will figure out Jesus is Lucifer/Satan as an intermediary whereas Allah is just Satan with no intermediary.

/rel/ containment board when?

>>22303539
>not even one mistake was found in this book
Spelled "Allah" wrong on page 457, lmafo

>>22309049
Factual

>>22309049
I’m interested in this view and if you wouldn’t mind would like an explanation—is it about Lucifer meaning “light-bringer”?

Is it just one raging lunatic in every Islam thread that same-fags himself with different replies? If so, stop shitting up threads and get help. You seem rather unhinged.

>>22303539
Muhammad marrying Aisha when she was 6-7 and then fucking her when she was less than 13 (I think she was 12) is pretty retarded.

>>22308607
What is your religion?

>>22304803
Lol, true

>>22305679
seriously, why is no one addressing that the Quran says the earth is flat?

>>22303539

>>22310269
I can tell you that there’s at the very least two of us.

>>22310498
And even though I’m samefagging right now. I only respond to my own posts if I exceed the character limit.
This has become my hobby since Muslim posters decided to shit up /his/ by spamming the board with threads about their dipshit YouTubers.

>>22310348

It's because the Earth is flat, dumbass globetard.

>>22304803
Lmao based

From this page:
"Shai la di"
"God is broken"
Meaning: God inside us does not understand that we are pure. We ask for solance, and he denis us.

>>22307186
>>22307188
>every country run by islam is a shithole
Honestly, the logic of you idiots' arguments is astounding:
>Shithole countries today are shitholes
>They're incidentally muslim regions
>The reason for their shithole-status in specifically the postmodern times must, then, be solely due to their being muslim regions
Haven't you considered that it's because they're second and third world countries under the circumstance of postmodernity? None of you look at their history, or the real cause of their shithole-status. Technological development within the 600-1600 gulf in europe moved to the near-east. And they were all muslims then. Whilst Europe then paralleled the near-east of today. Thinking that it all comes down to them being islamic and their 'muslim mentality' just shows you all are just religiously illiterate. If they were all Jews or Christians, they would be in the exact same position. Again, their being Islamic is just incidental. By this logic, all parts Christedom in the world would be identical, since if it's the religion that causes the mentality, they'd all have the same mentality. Why is protestant america so different culturally (assuming culture=mentality) to the vatican, or eastern russia? You guys are genuinely retarded, like, genuinely mentally retarded. You use the same logic retarded atheists use when they say that Christian teachings are at fault all human suffering caused by the Chrstians. (The correct answer here is humans, not Christian teachings.) The same applies to Islam.

>>22303544
You realize that the idea of 100% as a whole unit is cultural, right? Islamophobes are so stupid it's hard to believe sometimes kek

>>22310498
There are 46 posters in this thread.

>>22311693
It's clearly representing the fractiona from the original text, e.g. 66.7% ≈ 2/3rds

>>22311693
>Math is a Imperialistic Western concept

>>22311680
>Haven't you considered that it's because they're second and third world countries under the circumstance of postmodernity?
No, it's because they're ruled by Muslims. The moment they drop Islam and start secularizing, their conditions improve.

>>22312492
Yet literally the exact opposite happens almost every time it is tried. And the most prospering muslim nations are those in the gulf with the Quran as their law, while those in disarray have secular governments such as Iraq or are still reeling from the effects of flrced secularism such as iran and afghanistan.

>>22312673
>claims it’s because of Islamic rule
>then quantifies his position with countries “in the gulf”
Geee… I wonder if there’s anything in the Persian gulf that could possibly explain how a country could be much more “successful” than its neighbors. I wonder why Yemen isn’t included in that?

>>22311693
What in the fuck are you talking about? 100% is just another way to say 1/1. 1/2 or 2/3rds isn’t cultural you dunce. Or do you think the Quran literally said 50%?

>>22304803
4chan posters are all breathing.
It doesn't seem like enough oxygen gets to your brain anyway, so quit while you're behind.

>>22311680
>If they were all Jews or Christians, they would be in the exact same position.
Then explain how Israel is a prosperous country despite being physically located in the same region.

The Quran thinks Mary is a part of the Christian trinity

>>22312759
This wasnt as witty as it sounded in your head

>>22312689
Also Oman is "heretical" Ibadi Islam but is fairly peaceful.

>>22313067
Muhammad probably didn't understand the trinity and got his information from oral sources. Reading the passages in question, the Quran seems to be a simple polemic against the high role Jesus and Mary played in Christian worship. Muhammad probably didn't know the difference and thought they were worshipped as separate gods by Christians. Some muslims point to an obscure Mary-worshipping sect but that doesn't seem necessary to me.

>>22303539
All Jewish religions are retarded af

>>22313702
The Collyridianists were a dubious group that supposedly worshipped the Virgin Mary. Even if they did exist, it seems strange to single out a tiny heretical sect and not go after Christianity proper. This gets funnier when the Quran says in 5:75 that Jesus and Mary shouldn't be worshipped because they ate food. It reflects that the author of the Quran had no understanding of mainstream Chalcedonian Christology. Christ is worshipped because He is a Divine Person who is eternally begotten of the Father before all ages and therefore possesses the Divine Essence.
>In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The teaching is that the Word took on human nature in the Incarnation and assumed it into His hypostasis alongside His divine nature without mixing the natures - one Divine hypostasis with two natures. The Quran seems to assume that Christians are quite literally worshipping a mere man. You're free to disagree historically or theologically but the point is that at least they could have at least represented the belief properly before they went after it.

>>22312880
They're funded by America.
>Retard: The Anon

>>22313067
Never does it say mary is part of the trinity.

>>22313702
>t. Never read the Quran

>>22312880
>country

>>22303539
Since when do Jews call Ezra the son of God?

>>22310374
The fact Muslims don't realize Christ says there's no sex in heaven and yet they view that heaven is pure bodily pleasure is deeply concerning. It is pure bodily and pure spiritual pleasure not to have shadow women who have sex with you.

>>22314106
You need some Seyyed Hossein Nasr

>>22314165
Cool some guy that every Muslim up until the 20th century would call a heretic

>>22312759
>4chan posters are all breathing.
Are you not aware of the legions of bots?

>>22314184
If anything it is the opposite. Someone who would only be called a heretic in modern times with the rise of salafism.

And his beliefs regarding the afterlife are more or less standard.

>>22312673
Gulf states are the most pro-western of all. Lmao I bet you're a white convert who has never set foot in the middle east.

>>22303539
You got some spooks possessing you

Yes because nothing says no mistakes like abrogation. As the quran clearlly states "there are no contradictions in the quran, but if there are just take the newer verse and ignore the old one haha"

>>22311680
Read the book

https://libgen.st/book/index.php?md5=7A3F031A60741DCF7878AC0BCE7F365E

>>22314616
Not sure if it is this book, but Timir Kuran increased by respect for the islamic laws desu

>>22314071
And [beware the Day] when Allāh will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allāh?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.

>makes Islamists seethe

>>22315475
>tom Holland
this fella is pro-islam no?

>>22303539
A book of just "nigger" over and over also has no mistakes. Does that make it divine?