/lit/ - Literature

Two pieces. I rewrote them back to back. Are they still clunky?

The start of something:

Lewis thought himself a lucky man. For thirty years, he had lived off the paycheque from writing a weekly restaurant review column for the local newspaper -- lived, and lived comfortably, in a bachelor pad at the top floor of an old house on the edge of town, with a vintage car in snaky green, and a reputation among a certain circle as a bit of a charmer, a bit of a dog.

So when he opened the paper, and saw next to his own column a contribution from an unfamiliar name, he felt a brief tremor of unease, like a subsidence in the building's foundations. He had to pour himself a third glass of white before he could return to page, spreading it flat on his marble countertop. It was only half the length of his full-height column, true, but he had never before had to share the page with another critic. And even worse, this challenger could write.

Lewis's prose -- and he would be the first to admit it, was in fact proud of it -- had the bumbling, shaggy feel of a tipsy friend telling his meandering anecdote; that was the core of his style, that the persona he had grown so comfortably into. But this slim half-column was a whole different species: so lean, so effortlessly sharp, it was like the playing of a jazz pianist against Lewis's wheezy accordion. It made Lewis look like a man grown complacent and lazy. And he could feel his coveted position on the newspaper's staff starting to slip away.

It was past twelve, but Lewis knew the editor would still be in the office. After two rings, he picked up. He knew why Lewis was calling. "The kids a natural, isn't he? But listen, I hope you don't mind my giving him the column-space without consulting you first. Have no fear; you remain the one and only, the premier critic for our paper."

Lewis didn't believe a word of it. He could hear the false, treacherous note in the editor's voice. He could hear the knife being sharpened beneath the desk. But if they wanted knives and shadow-games then Lewis would play along.

No hard feelings at all, he said. After all, he would have to retire someday. And this newcomer had undeniable talent. In fact, he was hoping to meet him, to congratulate him on getting published, and to offer some tips drawn from years of experience. Would the editor be so kind as to put him touch with the young man?

They arranged to meet for dinner at a new spot in town. Steel beams spanned the high ceiling space, large urns held tall, dry branches, and the walls were covered with zoological drawings of rare birds. Paul -- the man behind the column -- followed Lewis and a black-shirted waiter to a corner table, and started nervously buttering bread. His shyness, and his floppy, affected fringe, made him seem even younger than he was. And from the way he eagerly asked questions about the details of Lewis's frankly uninspired stories, it was clear he was impressed by the older man's reputation. Lewis was pleased by this. But it didn't affect the necessity of the plan.

>>22300859
Should I be more specific that the tires pop from trying to drift around the corner, not that they're flat as they start driving? A .25 acp is a very small caliber, so I'm guessing if the hole was only in the front tire on the passenger side,the flat wouldn't be noticeable immediately to a driver, I hope

I am trying to write a story with a strong romance subplot. But I do not know what women are looking for in a man beyond the obvious, so I'm not sure how to depict him in a way that will make female readers go crazy for it, and they are an audience I want to appeal to. Any tips?

>>22300799
Keep at it

>>22300799
>>22301228
This anon pointed out the most obvious issues. Those are fixable. However, the bigger thing you should focus on now is developing a distinct and interesting voice. But it's hard to force. It develops naturally.

I was actually convinced that I read your piece before on here. That I replied to it already. I remember some anon's writing describing soldiers marching through a swap, their swollen legs, some dead bodies.

And I was about to post this when I found this pic rel from November 2022!
>>/lit/thread/21305010#p21307834

Your writing has clearly improved! It is much more succinct, yet still evocative. However, I actually like many parts of this earlier draft. For example, the way you describe the mammoth-simian, while wordy, was better then than it is now:
>Two heads were joined together, on of which was a mammoth's with a single elongated organ shaped like a scorpion's stinger that swept across the ocean floor, the other a bloated one-eyed simian conjoined to it.
>Loosely conjoined, one of them looked like a one eyed simian, while the other head looked like a mammoth.
The current version overuses similes. The direct portrayal of a mammoth or a simian's head evokes a much more vivid image than merely stating that they "look like" that.
>Their body was a barrel of meat, with two flat feet.
This is fun. I like this.

Still needs work. But you're clearly working on it!

>>22301029
Read a billion wicked thoughts

>>22301815
Better to read supermarket wine mom smut at that point

Wonder if I have any obvious influences from different authors on my prose?

>>22301839
First sentence is too wordy.
>The movie is filmed

>Maid may have seen my trashy gay smut draft
what do I do now

>>22301860
Get a new maid, mr. moneybags

>>22301852

I should've said "movie was shot entirely"

>>22300839
l like it. But no local paper could afford a dedicated food critic since, like, the 1940s. Reporters do seven or eight different beats. Maybe in NYC or something.

>>22301839
Last sentence has 'as' 'begins' and 'after' in one clause. Really jarring.

>>22301029
Make him a tall handsome billionaire werewolf/vampire.

>>22302039
Werewolf OR Vampire
or
Werewolf AND Vampire at the same time?

>>22301860
post it here so we can judge how fucked you are8

>>22301860
Dumb question. Rape the maid.

>>22300839
Nice. Me likey.

>>22302105
Both. Just how much do you want the sad-wine-aunt market?
Think I'm kidding? Go survey the trashy romance on WattPad.

>>22300610
Any recommendations for schizocomedy writers? I want to write something stylistically disjointed.

>>22301029
Write him like a broody misunderstood tough guy. My opinion on this is entirly based on reading Jung, and he met the greatest amount of unhappy women.

>>22302308
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/29027/a-city-stranded-cowboys-robot-mercy-killing-business

I'm writing 95% of my book in first person present tense with two different POV characters. So far it feels fine, and I mark the chapter headings with the characters' names so it's clear whose perspective it's being experienced from.

I also have occasional switches to very short third person sequences with non-pov characters during scene breaks. Just a couple pages or even just a few paragraphs in between scene breaks. I do wonder if this is a good idea though, and wonder if it would be jarring to some people.

I'm even considering switching the third person segments from present to past tense, mostly because I know a lot of people hate reading third person present, but also because I think it would be a little easier to write. But I wonder if this would make it even more extra jarring. How sinful is all this?

I want to say it's okay because the scene breaks clearly delineate that something is going on in a different time, place, or circumstance. It's not a confusing shift into a new style of writing in the middle of something going on. But I would like to get some second opinions.

There's not a poetry thread and I don't feel like making one so I'll just dump my latest poem's draft here:

O constant Cato you still give me pause
and Seneca serene, with noble cause
to war against the body's selfish sin
and with a stoic mind destroy the din
to bring the princely peace that Hamlet sought
and rest at last, the fatal battle fought.

What phantoms might enter into my sleep
in dreams absurd to mortal minds, and reap
a harvest bountiful, and my heart burns
for that soft slumber sweet, but my mind turns
to Socrates and Theban Cebes wise
who knew such a deed could bring no prize
for godly Job did stand alive in pain
and Samson doomed led many in his train.

But Nobunaga nobly reached his end
like Mithradates who refused to bend
lest he become like Pompey's priceless head
betrayed by foreign foes who saw him dead
they lived and died, courageous men indeed
as awesome Ajax, the earth taking heed
of his immortal will against his foes
wielding the blade of Hector free from woes.

But still my mortal mind is ever turning
and still my hot and heavy heart is burning
discerning with a fervent flaming fire
for can it be my solem soul's desire
to face the fate of those accurséd three
whom Dante set in Satan's maw, and he
who died by servant's sword, of most ill fame.
An evil ghost, for numbered is his name.

This company is mixed indeed, and I
now seeking wisdom look to the sky
and see the wise clothed in shimmering white
who held to a path far out of their sight.
I shall hold to the road given to me
so that at its end I shall be set free.

>>22302394
This is really impressive imo. Entertaining and lofty subject matter, very precise iambic pentameter. What more do you think this draft needs before you can call it finished?

>>22302420
Time to sit and for me to reread it to see how well the rhythm works. I might want to rework the stanzas and add some lines in to make everything Octets. I originally had a 6-8-6-8-6 pattern but the middle one seemed incomplete. My biggest problem with this poem at the moment is I think the grammar could be a better; it runs on a lot.

>>22302394
Every time I try to write AABBCC I get an obnoxious gremlin in my brain telling me not to

>>22302464
also
Captcha: AAHWW

>>22302464
I've made it into a habit as of late. I should try alternating rhyme again.

>>22302394
>Nobunaga
The hell is he doing in there?

>>22302464

>>22301934
Please stop giving this cinemasins style advice. Good grief.

>>22302555
C'mere you little faggot.

>>22302625
People expect a certain level of realism. My dad was a small town reporter, so the premise seems really really absurd to me.

>amazon charges extra if a book is over 400 pages
>now forced to reduce my font size to 11 Times new Roman to avoid the surcharge

Nobody will care right?

>>22302741
That's why kikeazon annihilated my royalties? Huh. Well, it's not as if I was making much off it anyways. All the money comes from Batreon

Did the math. I can write 1 120k word novel per 30 days. I'm already halfway done. 4-5k words a day.

>>22301228
Based editor anon

>>22302785
Keep at it anon

>>22302785
Share your power with me
t. 400word-cel

>>22302838
I created a system and use it. Everything is pre-planned from the very first idea of the novel to the last word. I use the first 2 days of the 30 days to completely structure EVERYTHING, with the last thing being a complete scene list with full descriptions of what is happening in that specific scene.
And then I just work my way down and write it out. There is never a point at which I have to stop because I hit a dead end, or don't know what to write next. Unless of course, you are intentionally stopping because you get lazy or distracted. But this is a personality problem.

>>22302847
Well yeah, it's shit to have ADHD and only be able to concentrate on a couple of creative activities that inconveniently don't include writing. But I'll take your advice and plan everything out next time, since dead ends became a big problem recently.

>>22302741
>amazon charges extra if a book is over 400 pages
fuuuuck my new book probably goes a bit over that

>>22302882
Why don't you pad and split it in two volumes then? Pretty good way to capitalize with a justification.

I write 1-2k words self contained chapters. I feel like they are too short. Not enough action is happening between the points of the story. But at the same time exactly enough is described, everything fits and everything that has a purpose is present. How do I expand those chapters to 4-6k? I would feel bad just describing meaningless actions that characters make.

>>22302956
why so you want longer chapters then?

>>22302969
Because of the format. I only have 5-6 chapters planned and it will be around 8k words while I would like something around 15k words to qualify as a novelette at least and 5 stories like this would be like a complete book. Also seems like readers would not be interested in what happens because it's all too short.

>>22302888
That could be a smart idea, but I feel it's left a bit too short compared to the previous parts then. And I fear impulse buyers would be reluctant to touch it if it's split up. I might still be able to save this with some formatting trickery.

the more i write the more i realize how bad i am at writing

Recently gave up my faith and I didn't realise how hard it would be. And yes I've read the book of Job.

Sometimes losing faith is harder
Than it is for wicked men to gain
To look down upon the lit path
And realise the lamp has grown dim.

Those thickets and thistles which you crawled through—
That was a miracle of your own device
But to traverse down the mountain without a crutch—
To do this and do it alone, that is a wonder.

To know that at the foot there awaits nothing, not even despair,
And to reach your hand into that abyss
Without there being a hand to grab you back
I wish I had the courage years ago, for the path is now trodden black.
Nobody said it was easy to climb a mountain with a light
But no one even thought about the journey down in the middle of the night.

the more i write the more my writing begins to adopt the voice of David Foster Wallace. somehow, independently, my prose style has begun to unconsciously go down the style of DFW. i'd never even read the man's work until yesterday, and upon seeing a sample of his work, i came to realize that my voice seems to be gradually becoming an echo of his. why is this happening? i've mostly been reading older authors, such as Melville, Hawthorne, Poe, Conrad, Ashton Smith, and a myriad other writers born sometime in the 18th to late 19th centuries in order to develop my prose style and somehow my voice decides to crawl towards David Foster Wallace? what the fuck?

>>22303083
The more you know the less you know.

>>22303233
Roll back, anon. Go to the basics and try to constrict prose and writing in a simple way. Then experiment. Prose doesn't get good or become more individual if you don't consciously develop and test it. It's pretty hard to go from witnessing your prose growing similar to someone's style to making it work yourself. But it's supposed to be like that and it worth it. It honestly made no good for me trying to write like a famous writer after I was told I'm imitating him before even reading anything from his books.

>>22303253
Thanks for the advice anon. Will try and update (eventually).

I stopped smoking and now can write better? Dafuq? My head feels more clear but sometimes i still crave for a smoke

How do you guys ever feel comfortable with a final draft? I've been working on one project for years and I'm still make changes/edits.

>>22303619
At some point you just have to admit that perfection doesn't exist and let it go.

Honest question, do any of you anons ever let friends or family read your rough drafts? If not, and aside from posting them here, how do you find the will to keep writing when there’s no one who can give you constructive criticism or bounce ideas off of?

>>22303720
I gave my sister a physical copy of my book, fully secure in the knowledge she would never read it. Odds are your family doesn't give a shit. At best they'll "ooh" and "aah" and "oh that's nice" at some of your excerpts, but there's a 90% chance they will never actually truly read any of your work. That's not me whining about it, as I said I take solace in that knowledge.

>>22302847
>I use the first 2 days of the 30 days to completely structure EVERYTHING,
NTA, but interested. What do your initial plans look like?

>>22303233
>my voice decides to crawl towards David Foster Wallace? what the fuck?
Probably because you were born in the twentieth century, don't you think?

>>22303253
>>22303267
Thanks Anon, that was a lot more fun than I thought it’d be. Here’s what I wrote for the exercise:

>Stooped over a table was an image out of any mother’s nightmare. It was a man; he was dressed in a black leather trenchcoat. His stunted head was topped with a greasy, short-cut block of hair. His hairline was a disaster.
>A narrow, cratered face glared at an image laid on the table through a pair of dirty, square lenses. It was the image of a black man. The dysgenic man scowled and closed his narrow-spaced eyes. A blue vein throbbed from his pale temple. The edges of the image began to curl up. They blackened. There was neither heat nor any hint or sign of flame coming from the image, though it warped as it blackened then crumpled into ash.

>His dark eyes opened, and with a look of grim satisfaction stood to his full, lanky height of six and a half feet. Around his right arm looped a sagging faded crimson armband. His red shirt held the jagged image of a black sun. Striped boxers hung loosely from under a slightly bulging belly. The hem hovered over his bulbous knees.

>”Finally, I will have my vengeance against Tyrese,” he said. Then the man threw his head back and laughed heartily. His laughter was soon fettered away in his throat. His shoulders slouched. He pinched his nose between a forefinger and thumb and blew two thin strands of snot onto the moldy carpet. He wiped his fingers on the greasy sleeve of his trenchcoat.

>”With these psychic powers awakened from the depths of my Aryan blood, now no nigger on Earth who can stop me! Who can stop Master Chud!”

>>22303926
This took me around 27 minutes to hand write .I could’ve typed this out in five minutes, but for some reason, hand writing seems much more productive than typing.

How can my protagonist comfort a girl who is tightly clutching his arm? They're in the middle of a tunnel that turned out to be a nightmarish tomb filled with the corpses of human sacrifices.
The girl was actually pretty badass before this scene. So I don't want him to come off as too patronizing. But at the same time, this IS a scared girl who's clutching him and is close to hysterics, so he needs to be gentle.

I'm no good with emotional stuff.

>>22303980
If it helps, they've only just met that week, she's older than him, and he is supposed to be a compassionate sort.

Fuck it. This blurb sucks ass and I give up.

Would you read a story about a man who is driven to extreme lengths and elaborate heists to satisfy his sick fetish for defiling and sticking his penis inside priceless objects?

Start of a fantasy story I'm working on:

Solara was a living, breathing tapestry of human life. Set against the backdrop of the Monarch Mountains, it was a village where bonds of kinship ran deeper than the roots of the ancient Elbark tree at its center. Thatched cottages dotted the landscape, and cobblestone paths wound their way like veins through the heart of the village, a testament to the resilience of its people.

Among the denizens of Solara, a young boy named Eamon stood out like a vibrant patch sewn into the fabric of the village. With hair as wild as his spirit and eyes mirroring the azure skies, he was as much a part of Solara as the river that ran by it or the wind that whispered through the trees. The son of a robust blacksmith and a soft-spoken harvester, Eamon was shaped by the values of Solara - love, camaraderie, and an honest day's work.

Eamon's parents were his sun and moon. His father, strong and dependable, had a face hardened by years in front of the forge, and hands that seemed to mold metal as easily as clay. His mother was the gentle heart of the family, her voice a soothing lullaby, and her touch as tender as the new shoots she cared for in the fields. Together, they nurtured Eamon, whose life revolved around theirs like a planet in orbit.

Tied into this familial constellation was Mila, a red-headed sprite of a girl with a constellation of freckles scattered across her face. Eamon and Mila's friendship was a thing of childhood dreams, a bond forged through shared secrets, daring adventures, and warm, laughter-filled summer days. However, as Eamon neared his eleventh summer, a wrinkle in the fabric of his life began to appear.

From a young age, Eamon experienced strange occurrences, or "odd moments," as he called them. They started subtly - the inexplicable sensation of falling just before tripping on an unseen stone, a sudden chill on a warm day seconds before a gust of wind blew. He saw colors more vividly, heard sounds more acutely, and had dreams more vivid than any child his age. At first, these moments were dismissed as childhood fantasies. But as Eamon grew, so did the intensity and peculiarity of his experiences.

>>22303980
>>22303994
You should really write it yourself, especially since you're struggling to tie up loose ends like this. But I'll give you a variant of what hero's line could be. Something like "Uhh we're almost finished. Knight-lady, I very much need your help to pull through or my lvl 15 dagger is going to break the next time i run out of time to cast a spell."

>>22303980
she clutches his arm. he touches her hand. she looks at him. he looks back, they hold eye contact and she collects her breathing. he nods. she nods. they trudge forward into the tunnel.

>>22304087
>Thatched cottages dotted the landscape, and cobblestone paths wound their way like veins through the heart of the village, a testament to the resilience of its people.
The end of the sentence is pretty obscure. You should justify why it's about resilience if you talk about it. You will probably explain it later but this sticks out.
>love, camaraderie, and an honest day's work.
This is just so sweet. I hope you're not burning the city and killing his parents immediately in the first scene like fucking everyone does nowadays.
>revolved around theirs like a planet in orbit
Are the planets and orbits common knowledge shared by your characters?

In general your prose is fine for regular fantasy, sentences are steady and things follow each other properly. It's not particularly unique though. There's no hook in this starting excerpt, so I don't know what you want to hear about it. The introduction to magical potential of the boy is good, you can see it clearly and it causes some interest. If you are planning on some interesting plot it will be readable.

>you have to have a protagonist who is relatable
>and driven towards a goal from page one
>and lives in an environment that is somehow incongruous with their sense of self
>and all of this is communicated immediately to the audience
>and the antagonist has to be perfect too
i think they should have made storytelling easier it's too hard

>>22304114
Imagine some popular web novel rewritten like this. I would absolutely read it entirely.
>>22304152
Stop listening to them. They don't want you to write stories. They want you to pay them to learn how to write schlock.

>>22304165
no this is what i think based on having analyzed stories i like and ones that sell well
it's just hard as is evident by the fact that almost nobody is good at it

>>22303887
I start with the theme, this then emanates the premise and the central psycholgical and moral weakness of the protagonist (at this point it's all still very general, most of the time I don't even have a the sex of the protagonist yet)
Based on the premise I then brainstorm some ideas of what could be done with it in the story, followed by potential problems for me as the author or for the protagonist. This is also when I get a general idea of the central conflict and the antagonist.
Thanks to the promise I already can create a very rough A to B to C to D... summary of the story (very general again)
After that comes everything character. In the context of the theme and weakness I create motivation, need, and change for the Protag and others; come up with more Characters based on Story structure (Protag, Antag, Contag, Guardian, Emotion, Reason, Sidekick, Sceptic) and based on Archetypes (Father, Mother, Mentor, Magician, Trickster, Artist/Clown, Lover, Rebel, Warrior) including their dark versions.
After that comes the story world, again, tailored to best fit the theme (different types of story worlds symbolically mean different things for example a city stands for something different than a plain or island, and a story world can be combined for example "The city as a jungle)
Finally, I get to the scene list based on the established structure of other authors/guides. It's separated in 4 parts, each 25% of your word count. I write summaries of every single scene, often starting with the Midpoint or the Self-Revelation.
First part is the usual: Opening Scene, Setup, Catalyst, Debate/Refusal
The biggest part is the following: New Characters that represent the Theme or are exaggerations/opposites of it are introduced, then a lot of "Fun and Games" (for the reader not necessarily the characters) either in a ascend of the character or descent metaphorically speaking, then comes the Midpoint with a false victory or false defeat, followed by Fun and Games again but this time inversed to the first time, at the end of this part comes the "All is lost - Dark Night of the Soul - Death" part
After that the finale begins with gathering the tools/team to defeat the antagonist, executing the plan, the "Surprise" of the Antagonists last ace up his sleeve, the final overcoming of the Protags weakness (or failure in tragedies) and executing the new plan with final victory, ending scene.

That's how I do it. I apologize for the bad formatting because of the character limit. Had to really condense it and hope it could help or inspire someone.

>>22304185 (me)
holy wall of text, sorry about that

>>22304185
That's a great advice, anon. Even if someone is not doing the typical structuring they can still look back at it. Can you say how many scenes there usually are in one quarter of the story?

>>22304221
My scenes are usually 1k - 3k words, so I can't give you the exact numbers but at the length of 120k words for a novel, there are around 20 - 30 scenes in one quarter. The bigger your scenes the fewer you need.

If you have problems with writing scenes just structure them like the overall novel only in micro format and leave out the structural parts not necessary for that particular scene.
A scene mostly goes like this: Opening Image - Setup (Characters, Conflict) - Protagonistic Force vs. Antagonistic Force (can be Battle, a Puzzle, an argument, a general problem) - Conclusion/Victory/Defeat reached - Protagonist get's new insight or makes new decision - Closing Image

Any tips on creating a good cast of fantasy villains? Any suggestions will do.

>>22304165
interesting idea. is this 'muscular' prose?

>>22304277
>is this 'muscular' prose?
skeletal prose

>>22304274
Oh nice. It's this question again. I got one. A giant seven headed wolf who hates his boring security job and wants to be a singer (more like a choir), he kills anyone if they interrupt his practicing (he should be guarding anyways).

>>22304274
Satan and his demons.

>>22304087
>cobblestone paths wound their way like veins through the heart of the village, a testament to the resilience of its people.
Why are cobblestone paths a testament to the resilience of a people?

>stood out like a vibrant patch sewn into the fabric of the village
A patch sewn into a...village? You aborted your simile. Commit to it and invoke a symbolic quilt, damn it.

>new shoots she cared for in the fields
Might be a nitpick, but you just called her a harvester. Sowing is not reaping. Also, farming is typically a household enterprise, so it's kinda weird for the father to be a blacksmith and the mother to be a farmer. They should all be farmers, or the mother should be a fieldhand on someone else's farm.

>familial constellation
Apologies for my autism but planetary orbits are not the stuff of constellations. Also, you say constellation again in the next line.

>>22304288
much better. thanks.

>>22304274
Sexy teenage girl seducing older male teacher

>>22300610
what an ugly image

>>22304274
Cast of your favorite sitcom reskinned and made evil

>>22304274
if you can't even think of any ones that appeal to you, why are you going to write about them?

As a new writer I am really struggling to decide on a perspective and tense to write in. I keep throwing out everything I've done and rewriting it to try a different style but nothing feels quite right. I was originally going to write the whole thing as a singular pov in first person. But the more characters I introduce the more I realize I want to get in their heads and portray them from their own pov, even if they're just side characters. Doing a flashback-style past-tense first person pov like Rothfuss does also seems interesting and would work well with the story I have planned, but I feel it would leave even less room for that type of character exploration.

>first draft of opening chapter rounds out at a neat little 9000 words
>am already attached to the chapter knowing full well I'll need to hack it the fuck up come my first revision
>sad lyf
Is 9k too much? My prose is pretty wordy but I think I've pretty much covered all my bases in terms of location description, characterization and introduction into the narrative / plot with this one chapter. Also, how do you lads feel about switching PoVs mid chapter? Played around with it for a bit and I'm really liking how easily it lets me segway from one scene to the next without breaking the pacing by starting another chapter then and there.

>>22304152
Just do what I do and start your book with a relatableTM (pandering) cookie cutter fantasy wish fulfillment protag, make it seem like he has plot armor and vaguely allude to some "muh chosen one" prophecy, make it go to his head and immediately kill him off in a violent, gruesome death. Filter ALL anime plot nigs with one fell swoop, kachaou.

>>22304274
A prisoner who summons arcane forces to take over the prison and seek vengeance on his enemies.

A traveler who plants evil relics across the land, spreading corruption like a cancer.

A doctor who unlocks dark magic to prevent his patients from dying, unwittingly creating a an army of thralls.

An army commander who leads his troops into a portal to Hell. They return as demon-touched warriors, bent on conquering in the name of Hell.

Happy shlock-churning!

>>22304443
>Underlings
>The Dungeon
>How I Met Your Dark Lord
>Corrupted... with Abominations

>>22304480
nta but #2 gave me a very interesting idea for my novel so thank you

>>22304461
Get on the level with 18th century literature and learn about first person flashbacks in flashbacks with all the characters being different people. You basically can get the first person POV of the person your protagonist never meets.

>>22304462
9k is a big short story. You better not waste all those words on only introduction without any plot that plays out and shows the characters. You can write so much in this ammount of text, basically the entire beggining part of one or two POVs.

>>22304461
>As a new writer
Just stick with 3rd person, past tense. Don't make it hard on yourself.

>>22304521
>shemale

>>22304152
>you have to have a protagonist who is relatable
You don't. You can make him a completely unrelatable son of a bitch.
>and driven towards a goal from page one
You don't. He can be an aimless drifter as the plot itself.
>and lives in an environment that is somehow incongruous with their sense of self
No. Not even going to break this one down.
>and all of this is communicated immediately to the audience
No but it's good if you can communicate the jist of it.
>and the antagonist has to be perfect too
There doesn't have to be an antagonist.

>>22304521
Man, I'm surprised women talk about sex so much between each other when they could discuss the intricate and complicated world of sewing for hours without end.

>>22304538
How else are you going to save the cat? Or the princess? or whatever

>>22304538
ok what's your favorite story

>>22304521
If I didn't know any better and you showed me that list of female words randomly I would think 80% of them were made up.

>>22304671
the three little pigs

>>22304671
The Thing, probably.

>>22304521
Men: science, army, samurai, SHEMALE
Women: cute fabrics :)
We truly are made for each other.

So uhhh how do I learn to write female characters besides just writing them like a male and trying to pretend it's not one? Should I even bother?

>>22304864
the only two things about women you need to read to know them are Genesis (just Adam and Eve) and then the Nicole Kidman monologue about fucking guys at the end of Eyes Wide Shut

>>22304895
>Nicole Kidman monologue
do women really think like this? wtf

I made a flash fiction story about a guy having a long dream as a way of escapism from his reality, although I don't know if the pacing is correct as it's my first time ever writing one.
https://postimg.cc/RWtVZt1Q

>>22305005
Stanley Kubrik thinks that women think like this. You know. The guy who also made a Clockwork Orange and Lolita. So definitely an expert.

>write
>think prose is too heavy, cut it down, rewrite
>think prose is too simple, build it up, rewrite
>repeat ad nauseum

>>22305072
>So definitely an expert.
Yes.

>>22304185
I find it hard to believe that this procedure would result in interesting fiction (i.e fiction that isn't derivative and predictable). Not because of any fault with the procedure itself but for how little time is given for the germination period. There's no way you can completely plan out a novel in two days that in any way surprises or enthralls the reader. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

>>22305235
>"I can't do it so you can't do it."
t. wildly unsuccessful amateur writer

>>22305332
Well, yeah. That's my baseline assumption. I assume anon (or yourself, if you're the OP) is about the same as myself, which is why I find it difficult to believe. If he's an aberrant genius or graphomaniac freak, then fine, but then it isn't so much about method than madness. If he's just an ordinary mortal like me, it just seems impossible.

>>22305235
OP here.
I see writing like any other craft. I want to produce a product that satisfies a need or demand. This requires that I deliver. I don't try to create some kind of masterwork or try to win the literature nobel price. I am fine with using a system that creates a good story and satisfies the reader.
The masses don't appreciate high quality work and I don't want to write for a few critics who might praise it for it's innovation or creativity but then no one else reads it.
A story can always be better but at one point you just have to deliver.

>>22300839
I don't think it's bad, but I do think it's a little too direct. More telling than showing, but that's just in my opinion, you know?

I don't understand subplots. Why do I need them? How do I decide when a story would suit one? How do I weave them into my narrative structure?

>>22305448
You can use sub-plots to show different perspectives on the central theme of your story. For example your protagonist might help one of the side-characters to deal with a specific aspect of the theme, which wouldn't come up in a fitting or natural way in your protagonists story.
But sometimes sub-plots are just used as padding (which I don't like) and don't add anything insightful for the reader.

>>22305448
Different angles of a theme, like >>22305457 says. Also to support the main plot by having elements cross over, questions answered, etc. Subplots help with story pacing and reader attention span, since you can allow one story to marinate while shifting focus to something else. This keeps your story dynamic and minimizes the risk of reader exhaustion with the same characters doing the same things in the same setting...

How do I write a a flawed character in a perfect world?

Anyone else need a cheap editor? My vacation just ended

>>22305495
- Inferiority complex, hyper-aware of their shortcomings compared to others
- Puts up a social facade to mask their alienation
- Looking for some sort of exit, yearning for others like them
- Unable to fully accept their flaws because they're surrounded by perfection
- (Needs to be the mist relatable character in the story)

>>22305495
Better question is how to write a perfect character in a flawed world and get away with it.

Guys, is writing going to fix things?
I don't function in society, and I'm convinced it's other people's fault.

>>22304864
>writing women

Remove all logic and reason from them like F Gardner does.

>>22305648
Fix things how?
Also, don't blame your autism on others. At least man up to your awkward anti social ass. t. autist

>>22305495
I'm a writing a story about this and there are a couple ways I am approaching it.
>a character that can join the perfect world but won't, faces challenges because of it
>a character that can't join the perfect world
>a character that can't leave the perfect world and is unable to have something from the life left behind because it is not perfect
I'm sure you can come up with other examples. When it comes to making ideas you need to take the ingredients of your world and starting turning them over in your head until something comes out of it.

>>22305648
>fix things?
Writing is supposed to fix things?

The only way you can change the world is through absolutely sickening degree of violence in stomach-churning amounts.
Did you think a niche hobby for high IQ people will change world consisting of mostly low IQ cattle and their puppeteers?

>>22305648
what are those flowers called?

>>22305660
I don't know really. Maybe it's not a good idea to express my thoughts about the world, it could make things much worse for me, but then again it might enlighten some people to a reality hidden from them.
Usually every time I open my mouth people shut the conversation down as fast as possible. I'm utterly convinced they are the antisocial ones. They blame everything on me because it's the easy way out. That way they don't have to consider anything I say.

I think they're terrified if they accept what I say they might end up like me, like an outcast, alone with no friends, no work, and deprived of real contact with people in any meaningful way. They're not in contact with themselves on a deep level and they can't handle honesty and freedom, it's too big of a change in their perception about the world and how they want it to be, so they make their little rules in order to avoid me.
That's kind of how I feel.

Maybe I can't really complain. I live indoors and I get food every day. A lot of people don't even have that.

>>22305749
I don't know, but they're beautiful.

>>22305653
This got published? The writing is so bad

>>22305648
Even if you can't fix things, you can show readers in the 22nd century and beyond that you knew what was broken.

>>22305757
if you want to write about it (which you clearly do) then you should write about it

>>22305683
The violence is what has created much of the ills of this world in the first place, it leads to more alienation and apathy.

>>22305653
Holy shit is that real? Like, no unreliable narrator dreamlike unreality sequence bs? It's comical. If that's supposed to be taken at face value, I've been severely overestimating F. Gardner's reputation around here.

>>22305683
ow the edge

>>22305749
They look like a variety of white peony. There are some that are very layered petals and some more simple, but the colors of the petals and stamen and appearance of the leaf led me to that conclusion.

Finished a chapter I’ve been working on for ages. Now, to celebrate.

A toast!!! To /wg/!!!!

>>22305867
Cheers.
Which chapter was it? I'm on 7 right now.

>>22305867
Cheers anon. To /wg/!

>>22305798
Now you realize why F Gardner became such a meme around these parts. Imagine a book like that for 200 pages. Now imagine it as part of a series with over a dozen other books. Now imagine them all with the most retarded and insane twist endings you can think of. And imagine that they’re all dead fucking serious. That’s Horror’s Call.

>>22305900
CAREFUL IT'S GOING TO POUR OUT

>>22305757
>Maybe it's not a good idea to express my thoughts about the world
Why the fuck not? Nearly all writers do it.

Don't expect to "fix" things though. No writer ever changed anything by writing.
>>22305798
>fundamental truth of might makes right is edgy
This is why you will never change things for better. Bad people have no qualms about violence. It's up to the good people to be more violent for a good cause.

>>22305914
I immediately always start keking whenever Gardner prose is posted.
I haven’t even read any of Gardner’s books outside of screenshots I’ve seen posted but my absolute favorite one is the one where he names the jew. It makes me kek to think this is an actual novel length book that someone actually took the time to write.

>>22305887
Six. I’m about 30,000 words in, and I have a shitload of editing to do, but that’s a problem for another time.

>>22305768
>>22305772
>>22305928
Maybe you're right
I've tried to outline the basic topics I want to write on several times before, during the last 5 years and found it too hard to commit to the daunting task. But I think now might very well be the time to really begin. It seems I have nothing else to do.
I've already written so many little things over the years that I could easily fill 2 or 300 full packed pages just with that, which could then easily be expanded upon at great lengths.
I think I need to make it now, or I would probably regret it dearly later.
I will just write it for my own conscience's sake and release it for free at some point.

>>22306015
>I will just write it for my own conscience's sake and release it for free at some point.
That's what I'm doing. I want to get all my stories out of my head for others to enjoy before I die. It'd be a shame if I took them to grave with me and my only concern is if I can do them justice.

>>22305653
>>22305914
>>22305931
Seriously, isn't this comedy? I can't stop laughing.
I don't want to be rude to the guy.
It can't be serious can it? It's so silly.

>>22306073
Unintentional comedy. I read a couple of them after seeing Chris Dwi’s videos. He used to post on here. After seeing his videos the books didn’t even seem real so I ended up going down a Horror’s Call rabbit hole for a while and read some. They are very bizarre but they’re oddly entertaining if I’m to be entirely honest. Jigoku was probably the best of the ones I ended up reading but that was a couple years ago. I think F. Gardner’s released several new installments since I last read anything he did.

I'm just going to publish my story. Oh well I'll be the only one to read it.

>>22306051
That's a noble pursuit.
I hope a lot of people will come to enjoy it

>>22306143
>I hope a lot of people will come to enjoy it
Same. It will be a lot of writing though. I hope the time I have will be enough.

In the beginning, there was only a man, floating through the endless dark. The man was as eternal and timeless as the void that enveloped him. Over time, the man grew tired of his unchanging existence, the monotony of life, and decided he would bring something wholly new into his world.

He began conjuring up a most cherished memory from his younger days. The man could no longer remember the specifics, but he, too, once had a life full of joy, even in complete darkness and solitude. He focused on this memory with everything he had until a string of light began coming out of his head. The man could no longer remember his most cherished memory, but he found the string of light beautiful and took it into his hand.

He then began singing the greatest song he’d ever known. The man could not remember who taught him the song – perhaps it was originally his to begin with – but he knew it was the best song he’d ever known. He sang and sang until his voice began cracking into silence and a string of light came out of his throat. The man could no longer sing or remember the greatest song he’d ever known, but he found the light beautiful and took it into his hand.

>>22303446
Drugs are bad m'kay

>>22305653
>>22305914
>>22305931
>>22306073
Hence why someone here wrote a full-length parody of his "work".
You can download the e-book for free:
https://files.catbox.moe/aw9gz2.pdf

>>22306172
>a string of light began coming out of his head
You could try more illustrative language here

>a string of light came out of his throat
Same here. "String of light" is generic. "Came out of" is generic.

It's nice though. Makes me curious to read more.

>>22306182
Not that anon, but drugs are a tool imo. Weed helps my brainstorming but kills my writing productivity. Light alcohol intake makes it easier for me to put words on paper. Nine times out of ten, I begin a writing session with a cup of coffee.

>>22306172
>>22306211
The man never had anyone to share his feelings with, but there existed in his heart a door to all the emotions in the universe. He reached his hand through the door and pulled out the most magnificent, most dazzling, and the most radiant string of light more beautiful than anything he’d ever thought of. He took the string of light into his hands and embraced it. Tears began streaming down his face. He could no longer remember what it was that he lost, but he knew it was perhaps the most important thing. The man cried, in silence but in the warmth of his light, until he finally became tired and fell asleep.

In his dream, the eternal void was filled with strings of light in every direction. Each light shined with a distinctly beautiful color and every light sang different melodies. The lights danced and sang together until worlds, planets, and stars came to be. Then, just as suddenly as it began, all the lights faded away, leaving the world in darkness, in silence.

Except there was one string of light that refused to give out. The most magnificent, most dazzling, and the most radiant of all. The light that shines the world, keeps it warm, and sings the greatest song the man’s ever known, so that when the day comes that the man has to wake up from his slumber, he may remember his dream as a beautiful one.

Why do I have to be some unknown writer writing a book? Can't I be known? Can't I read the fan fics they're making of my storys? the art of my characters? I want to see them, I just wanna see people love my work

Can anyone give an opinion on my general prose? still working on the first draft but i got the sudden urge to kill myself when rereading the opening page.
Also what I'm doing with the italicized text should hopefully (?) be clear? If not then I did it wrong.

>>22306233
Get good

>>22306246
>The world may yet end twice if that is to be
already too annoyed to read further

>>22306233
You were already told that even if you get any fame it will be long after your death. Weren't you? Just have to deal with it and write better so you can at least earn money.

>>22306246
Yeah, I see the problem. It's all too obscure and the prose is vague. You tried too hard and most readers won't be able to read it at all. You can get away with it when you already have a set story and the fictional author is supposed to be in great mental distress. But as the first page? No, it won't work.

>>22306286
Yeah it reads like I just fucking hate the reader, doesn't it?
I kinda wanted it to read somewhat vague-- since it wouldn't be reasonable for the protagonist to fully understand why the world ended since that's kinda the point of the book, he 'recollects' and all.
Some parts seem salvageable like maybe the oaths thing, but it's just marred and marred by nothing sentences, especially the opening sentence like >>22306265 said.

>>22306246
>>22306299
just tone it down a notch. without changing the line completely,
>The world may yet end twice.
or
>The world will end twice, if that is to be.
imo are better lines.

>>22306246
>>22306246
First off the reference with your first chapter being titled "Loomings" is too on the nose, change that. Alright you asked me about your prose, alot of it is good. you're obviously going for a very vague and perhaps ambiguous style here much of the time, and yes there are clear threads of story we can start to make out, who are these enemies, where is she, what is "it". it does work but you mention the idea of "furnishing" metaphorically too close in frequency, just comes off as a little unimaginitive. Overall though most of your writing is fairly intriguing and enjoyable I would continue reading if you posted more but what i pointed out is pretty glaring for me to be frank with you.

>>22306389
I'd say that the 'if that is to be' is just needless slop I threw in to try and sound grandiose which definitely do not need any more of in this opening.
>The world may yet end twice
I'll put this in my notes for when I come around for the second draft, thanks anon.
>>22306405
>is too on the nose
Yep. Just, yeah. Too uncreative. I'll workshop it, tie it into a theme of being called to action or remembrance.
>alot of it is good
This will be the first time somebody called my fiction writing style good, thanks.
>"furnishing" metaphorically too close in frequency
Nabbed the verb from another author who used it and got excited. The first use is needless and can be replaced with verbs in a similar family like 'redress' I think. So it becomes,
>...for the dismantlement of a soul I refuse to redress
And the second use can stay and I'll probably refrain from saying furniture directly since that's kinda implied so that becomes,
>...Enemies-- only-- shall furnish my heart, to fill her vacancy. How painful it ever be to remove those belongings left behind.
>would continue reading
thanks ;P. I'll nab some screencaps of parts that are interesting and that need reworking.

>>22306233
>the art of my characters?
I will measure my success as a writer in the amount of fanart my characters get.

>>22301228
>>22301768
Thank you kind anons. I'll keep working on them. I think I'll try revising both drafts a few more times and maybe when they're both decent enough, I'll try getting them published. Although the chances are slim, it'll be worth the shot.

is a "horror" book where there's no one in danger but its full of spooky shit like ghostly sights and sounds that can be used to stitch together a story a stupid concept?

>>22306544
That's literally the type of horror my gf enjoys the most. It's not stupid if there's a niche for it.
In fact, if you think about it, Roadside Picnic has no antagonist either.

Since we're doing prose reviews, I'd really like to get some feedback on mine too. This is my first novel and I worry that I have a tendency to overwrite sometimes. I feel I have a hard time finding a middle ground that is evocative but also doesn't cause peoples' eyes to glaze over with too much description or poor pacing. I let myself go a little further here than usual, though still with a little restraint, and am wondering how it reads from someone else's perspective.

>>22306544
depends, it might work because horror works because of the things not shown
BUT at the same time you are blueballing readers who might want a payoff to all that teasing and hinting
as usual it depends on the setup and foreshadowing and if you show your viewers very early on that it might not be an actual supernatural force at play

What do you think about mixing up two descriptions? Is it confusing or off putting?

>"They descended from the cliff and continued at a safe distance from the camp. The grass was not as soft and luscious as it's color suggested, but it was tall. It hid the two enough to not reveal their silhouettes sticking out over the horizon. They walked untill the dawn came and rays of light reached the ground. Now visible, there was another camp to the east. The sun poured it's yellow on the grass, wood, cotton and iron of the fortified position of a different army."

Just wrote it now and struggled with the entire paragraph, put it as best as I could.

>>22306246
It's unreadable.
>a so called 'third coming' soon too traveling thereafter as you have said it will if so. And it is that 'so' you must accept.
What the fuck are you even saying here?
>i got the sudden urge to kill myself when rereading the opening page.
I also felt that urge

Stop trying to sound cool. Try writing like you talk. You know, like when you want to communicate facts and ideas to another human.

reminder, 90% of readers do not care about how good your prose is, but they care if it's bad

>>22306588
well the idea was based on those less harmful residual hauntings that just repeat what happened in the past.

also when writing do you people just throw shit on the paper even if its the most robotic sounding dialogue imaginable just to progress the scene? I've been doing this then just trying to fix up the dialogue after the fact. I'm shit and just trying to get better.

>>22306562
Same anon that posted >>22306246 kinda forgot about all this until now. Pic related for >>22306562 prose review. Imo, you have a nice, flowing sort of style that is to the point but I think you use gerunds too much.
Examples:
>...lay draped across a network of branches, creatING.....
>...but the freezing cold is pervasive, penetratING
>...I squeeze my eyes shut, tryING
etc, etc. You do 'Thing occurs, effect' and usually the effect ends in the infamous ing which gets old really fast. Change your sentence structure to be more interesting-- that sounds like an insult, but seriously, start moving things around.
My prose is damn near unreadable, but it does avoid the 'ing pitfall that you are in now although I'd say that I took it and ran, maybe you can find a middle ground.

>>22306647
Oops. This is the pic.

>>22306647
>>22306650
Thanks anon, a lotta good info here and some stuff I hadn't considered.

>>22306562
It's good enough. You didn't overwrite the description, just the right amount. If it's at the start of the novel it's actually a nice utilisation of first person perspective.
>>22306647
I don't get this disdain for -ing adjectives. Why are they bad?

>>22306728
It's not bad. It's not any worse then using 'and then' and nothing else. It's just sort of repetitive over time, and it's something I used to catch myself doing a lot, too.
Like, take,
>I cleared the distance, running with all my might, and arriving at the pair in the nick of time.
And compare it to,
>I ran with all my might and cleared the distance to the pair right in the nick of time.
Personally, I find the second to be a more enjoyable read and packed with energy.

>>22306643
They don't notice good prose but their brains do

>>22306643
I'm writing not just for my audience but also for me and I care if it's good.

>>22306609
Let's go sentence by sentence. You're not asking for a rewrite, but me showing how I would write certain things could help.
>They descended from the cliff and continued at a safe distance from the camp.
First, I think you're using 'from' too much.
>They climbed down the cliff...
There. We have 'down' now and we further described the method that they used to get down from that cliff-- and we elimated the 'from,' hooray!
Next,
>...and continued at a safe distance from the camp.
Personally, I'd put 'kept a' instead of 'continued at a' because it's terse, and further emphasizes that they really do not want to get too close to this camp.
>They climbed down the cliff and kept a safe distance from the camp.
Next sentence now,
>The grass was not as soft and luscious as it's color suggested, but it was tall.
I'd use a negative here and then seperate the last dependent clause. That is,
>The grass was neither soft nor luscious UNLIKE what its color suggested. It was tall, however.
It sort of has a 'falling off' sort of feeling where it's like, 'man this grass really is not like what you'd expect it to be' (hindering stealth) 'but I GUESS it was tall.' -> narrator kinda shows how the characters would feel about this when you phrase it like this imo.
>It hid the two enough to not reveal their silhouettes sticking out over the horizon.
I would swap out 'the two' with 'pair' since the former sounds too clunky here, and I'd frankly just switch up the sentence structure a bit as well.
>It covered the pair, and shielded their silhouettes-- rendering them unvisible to the enemies just over the horizion.
Best way I could phrase it.
>They walked until the dawn came and rays of light reached the ground. Now visible, there was another camp to the east.
Could make this more interesting.
>It was only upon dawn, that orange and red time, that another camp far east came into view.
I just sort of described the sky and merged the sentences so they'd flow better.
>The sun poured it's yellow on the grass, wood, cotton and iron of the fortified position of a different army.
O.K. I like this sentence although I sure hope that this different army has a name. Unless you are meaning a different platoon or unit within the same army as I would assume occupied the camp they kept a safe distance from earlier.
So, that leaves us with:
>They climbed down the cliff and kept a safe distance from the camp. The grass was neither soft nor luscious unlike what its color suggested. It was tall, however. It covered the pair, and shielded their silhouettes-- rendering them unvisble to the enemies just over the horizion. It was only upon dawn, that orange and red time, that another camp far east came into view.

>>22306609
just as a grammar nitpick, "it's" always drops the apostrophe when it's possessive. should be:
>its color
>its yellow
"It's" is purely a contraction meaning "it is"

>>22306764
Yep. Forgot to say that to him directly.
>>22306246
Not sure if >>22306405 is still here, but if anyone else is interested in reading for feedback or otherwise, here you go. This is the only other page I'm going to post. Picture is very related.

>>22306562
>"Not lost yet, eh, Trunk?"
You need an 'I asked.' or a line break. It sounds like the horse is talking.
Having an italicized thought in between the dialog of a guy talking to himself out loud is weird. Esp. in 1st person. That's three levels of one guy talking to himself.
>end of his rope...gain ground...retire for the night
Cliche storm
>some towering almost a mile above us
That's like four Empire State Buildings stacked on top of each other. Are you sure you want that?
>Why the lack of detail? The secrecy?
Yeah, why is that? Why aren't you giving the reader any details about what's going on? This whole section could be summed up as 'man rides a horse through a forest.' It's dull. Nothing happens. You don't even tell us his name.

A guy asking himself 'what's going on?' is not a hook. Give the readers some crazy fact that forces them to ask themselves 'what's going on here?' Then they want to keep reading to answer their own question.

You have a talent for filler, at least, which will help you if you want to write webnovels.

>>22306754
>Let's go sentence by sentence. You're not asking for a rewrite, but me showing how I would write certain things could help.
Yeah, thanks. Your version has a better flow. I will need to rewrite this paragraph closer to the image I had in mind, I guess. I can rewrite a number of things with more separation in sentences and less repetition.

I need to develop multiple sets of intra and inter-species slurs for my science fiction projects. Where do I even start with this?

>>22306728
>I don't get this disdain for -ing adjectives. Why are they bad?
That's not an adjective (or a gerund), it's a participle phrase.
They can be bad, when used improperly, because they cause dangling modifiers and they scramble the order of events. But mainly, overusing them sounds bad and is one of the hallmarks of amateur writers.

>>22306809
Just start from shallow ends like appearances. One race of aliens really thin? Call them twigs. Then kind of fuddle up the word a bit and get twicks. Boom. Slur created.

>>22305931
There is no fuckin timeline in the history of the universe where this was ever written unironically

>>22306823
That's a good place to start, I guess. Any further tips, the appearance well will dry pretty fast I think.

>>22306838
Make up stereotypes based on some history. If one race is known for X create a slur similar to before.
Like one race is known for being overly polite to the point of exhaustion, perhaps other races could be mocking them via fake polite gestures-- apologizing for fucking their mom, offering handshakes all the time, hell could even just call them 'handshakes' or something if that's there gesture for politeness or something. That's the most general advice I can give. Create history. Create appearances. Create slurs based on both of those things.

>>22306851
Actually that's more like tendencies, history would be similar to that, though. Just historic. In the past they used to do X or were enslaved by Y and the language of Y had a special word for them or something.

>>22306769
In downtime, the cogs of my mined machined in convivial both to stave sleep and prevent it from working at that question throughout ever fleeting days; undertaking those lengthy and and arduous jobs of centuries past.
You are beyond fucked up, my man.
>In downtime
In the downtime
>the cogs of my mind machined
Cogs can spin but they can't 'machine.' Machined is a transitive verb meaning to make a part. You can machine a cog using milling cutters.
>Machined in convivial
convivial is an adjective so it needs a noun. Convivial what? Convivial means a friendly atmosphere, so I have no clue what you're talking about here.
>to stave sleep
to stave off sleep
>; undertaking those lengthy and arduous jobs .
This is a participle phrase not an independent clause. There is no reason for a semicolon here. It seems meaningless and is not pointing to a noun. The 'mind' maybe?

This is just one sentence. They're all deeply mangled. You need to step way back and rethink things.

pic related

Greek or latin names for fantasy characters?

>>22306875
are the characters actually greek or roman?

Would your main character say the n word and if so would he say nigger or nigga?

>>22306897
No, but heavily influenced by both. You know, like it's done in fantasy.
>>22306909
One would only do so if angered and taunting. Another would shout "Nigger" in a nigger's face at the first opportunity.

https://pastebin.com/eeUA2WnT

ESL here. On my way to write a YA webserial.
Anyone willing to rate examine my prose and general diction

>my side character has more personality and is more interesting than my protagonist
fuck
back to the drawing board i guess

>>22306918
You set up this fantasy theme and then use expressions like riding shotgun. Don't you see anything weird about that? Your paragraph breaks make no sense. You separate clauses where there should be a comma, and put a comma where there should be a full stop. And "its" is spelled "it's" twice. That's as far as I got.

>>22306951
Ok. So i have to actually learn what a clause is.
Where to break a paragraph.
The proper usage of commas.

Thank you anon.

>>22306918
Ooh, a subversion instead of a blatant rip off. Already better than 99% of webserials. There's just one issue.

>from when she was a still pint-sized midget.
Is this supposed to mean baby? That's a very strange choice of words, confusing even.
>Of conjuring stars for the homeless wanderers, so the dark doesn’t consume them.
The meaning of this isn't clear.
>who she really is, who she could be.
Tha leter is in place of the former, don't you think?
>To be wizard and witch alike, the riding of broomsticks
Looks like two sentences together. Or you should have listed everything in one victorian prose style, long sentence. Also you seem to be splitting paragraphs based only on the amount of text.
>shotgunning black cats
Not the kitties!
>Of Mending her sick father’s illness, because they can’t afford the alchemical medicine
Clanky. You also changed the time here. And I hope you figure out punctuation. I think you meant:
>Of mending her sick father’s illness, because they can’t afford the alchemical medicine in the world, where only the affluent get to stave off illness like an annoyance.
>Eyeing her with haunted a haunting gesture like she was a ornament.
Please, read it yourself before sending.

Don't have enough energy to go through the rest. You need polishing. Both for your text and language intuition. A lot of words stand out because of the wrong meanings. How do you stare at someone with a gesture? Why would you shoot cats with a shotgun? Snapped it's head like a twig? It must be dead. Don't get disappointed in your writing because of this, but you need to read more english literature.

>>22306918
I'm going to be honest. Based on this, I think you're either going to need an editor or to get a firmer grasp on the English language before you go about publishing.
>9: She knew(the) next few moments
>13: its claw and its head. It's is a contraction of it is or it has.
>13: Eyeing her with h̶a̶u̶n̶t̶e̶d̶ a haunting gesture
>15: It's again in place of its
>17: It stopped half a mile a(way) on a rooftop
>22: In mere seconds her d̶r̶e̶a̶m̶e̶d̶ dream was
>22: She fidgeted he(r) left hand,
And these are just the general typos. There are a number of odd word choices that aren't conveying what I think you mean to.

>>22300610
Everytime I reread my drafts for editing and stuff, I'm suddenly overwhelmed by the strong urge to kill myself. I know you're supposed to get over it and just do it, but damn.

>>22306959
>>22306966
It never really occurred to me that i may be semi-literate in english. Went through high school without a teacher batting a eye at my essays. The outside perspective is appreciative. I think i'll get a good book that teaches english proper, and spend an hour a day studying.

Thank anons

>shotgunning black cats. What i tried to convey was the cats jumping along for a ride.

>>22306728
>Why are they bad?
They aren't in and of itself. Passive voice is simply prone to being overused.

>>22306989
>I know you're supposed to get over it and just do it
Don't kill yourself anon...

>>22306994
>I think i'll get a good book that teaches english proper, and spend an hour a day studying.
Just take a book you like and attempt to write a chapter or two from memory. You'll quickly pick up where you're having trouble by comparing your version with the authors. When you don't understand some difference between the author's version and yours, that's when you pick up a reference book (or just post it here or ask ChatGPT).

>editorchad waiting for the next person to submit his or her manuscript

>>22307202
I would hire you but I'm not even close to finishing my manuscript

>>22307254
I make custom offers for people who are broke or haven't finished writing their books yet, so keep in touch. I need to pay for my girlfriend's xanax

>be ESL
>majority of reading is in English
>dont really want to read anything originally written in my native language, a lot of books that I want to read are written in English
>want to write
>but to git gud at it, need to read a lot
What should I do? Is it bad idea to write in English, while being an ESL?

>>22307303
hire a ghostwriter who speaks language natively

>>22307305
Why?

>>22307303
I mean, to get good at writing, ANY writer needs to read a lot. Sure, English being your second language means you're going to have to work harder, but if you're finding a lot that you want to read in English regardless, you might as well use it to improve your writing along the way.

>>22307317
What about writing in my native, while majority of books read by me in English? Does reading in one language help in any way with writing in different?

>>22307429
It should help somewhat, though I don't think it'd be as beneficial as just reading translations of the English books you want to read in your native language, if they exist. You'd be taking the extra step of having to translate what you read to apply it to your own writing. If your end goal is to write in English, though, you'd probably be better off transferring over sooner rather than later.

>>22307429
Isn’t that the borges route?

>>22306994
Shotgunning is drinking a beer really fast
Riding shotgun is riding up front with the driver.
Riding shotgun is an old west thing for armed stagecoaches, so it sounds very modern and not fantasy. Unless it's a modern fantasy like Harry Potter.

https://pastebin.com/8eH4Cdc6

>>22307646
First paragraph is very unclear. Maybe the last chap gives info? I read it that ayara was the rock hag in the cage.
>taunted her fate inside the fortress.
they're taunting her, not her fate.
>produce
Throwing vegetables is a corny gag from comics. If you're doing a fantasy get more creative. Mud or chicken bones or something.
>bemused smirk
bemused=confused. amused=amused

Why would one thrown fruit be interpreted as an attack but not all the others? Wouldn't you assume someone missed a cage?

It's hard to review a middle chapter, because it's all names names names

>>22307749
Nta but chicken bones is an even worse idea than veggies. Meat would be even more scarce than produce in a medieval setting and nobody is going to go home and quickly gobble down some chicken thighs to have bones to throw. Unless the whole thing is a Ren fair display with food stalls selling chicken wings or people just happen to have buckets of chicken bones laying around at home.

>>22307912
I think the stereotypical throwing of rotten tomatoes and eggs and vegetables and a pie smashed in the face in a medieval setting is pretty comical.
I can imagine a fat monk spitting out his beer crying with laughter, wiping the tears off his face while everyone is having a blast at trying to hit the target.

>>22308028
>tomatoes
>medieval setting

>>22308037
well the late middle ages then.
It looks like it came to Europe around the 1500's

rate this: >>22308038

>>22308054
No thanks.

>>22308059
here's the context of the OP >>22307918

>>22304864
Read books written by women about their lives

>he's writing about love when he's never even experienced it
shiggydiggy there, boys

>>22304864
They love wanting someone they can't have and having someone they shouldn't want

How do I keep myself on track with only one project? I have a non fiction book on numismatics I've been working on for about a year, with maybe only a single chapter properly finished, a film script, and a few other projects I want to get done. But they all keep interrupting each other. Realistically I could have had my book published by now if I wasn't busy consistently flip flopping between my other projects and it. And I realistically could finish it in about a month considering much of the written sections are half/near finished. With only the cataloguing work needing to be done up from scratch (basically just a lot of spreadsheets and image scanning). Do you guys have any tips for keeping myself focused on one project and one project alone?

>>22308365
yeah discipline

>>22308365
vyvanse or adderall

>>22301934
You're right. I wanted to make it a job that felt *almost* too cushy to be true, like a vestige of that '40s world -- but I got carried away, seduced by my own fantasy.

>>22305400
I've been deliberately steering my writing towards that more direct style lately. But maybe it's becoming too much like a plot synopsis. What I want is what Saul Bellow called 'the power to cut through superfluities, the hardness of attack that I favor'.

>>22308266
But I did.

>>22308365
Ban yourself from working on anything except the thing you pick, until it's finished.

That's it. No ifs or buts.

is this the right place to ask about tips for getting published? i finished my book about half a year ago, and i've been querying literary agents. i'll admit because i have a tourist season job i haven't been querying as much as i should but i'm getting pretty dispirited. i can't help but think that i'm having trouble partially because my protagonist is a white guy, and i'm not even white myself. i hear more and more people say that the action is happening on random discords where you get hooked up but i have no idea what's true and what's not anymore

>>22308468
>my protagonist is a white guy
Out of curiosity, is there a reason why his ethnicity needed to be specified?

>>22308468
I haven't published a book but I'm thinking that it's important to find a publisher that's more or less catered to the specific audience you're aiming for and then just contact the publisher, either talking with them on the phone or meeting in person.

>>22308523
thinking about it, i never specified his ethnicity in the book, but he is so blatantly a reference to elon musk, gordon gecko, jordan belfort type CEOs i don't think anyone would ever read him as anything but.

>>22308535
> i don't think anyone would ever read him as anything but.
Ah, I get what you mean.

Your book sounds kind of zeitgeist-y, though, so that might be the angle to take when pitching to agents, if you're not already.

You might also want to think about getting short stories published on different sites first, so you're not a pure no-namer. That might also help with networking.

Personally, I have access to one of the secret discords, and I'm in the midst of a bidding war for my next manuscript. But unfortunately I can't give you details.

>>22308283
>They love wanting someone they can't have
that's everybody with everything

>>22308559
that's cool. i appreciate the direction. i'm legit not trying to get hooked up or anything. it's more just that i'm turned around this way and that trying to figure out which advice is real and which is total bullshit. thanks for calling my book zeitgeisty by the way.

on that note, are there specific sites that seem to draw people's attention more with short stories? i was thinking of becoming extremely prolific with short stories and maybe doing a web novel or something just to build any audience at all. sometimes i feel frustrated because it feels like artists can post their art on twitter, musicians can post covers on youtube, but writers just have to get the nod from someone important to showcase their work anywhere.

>>22308532
publishers only talk to agents. they don't look at direct submissions

>>22308532
>>22308615
original anon here, just wanted to point out that second post isn't me, though i've heard split opinions on how much querying publishers directly works. it's not as common a way to get in but apparently it's more of a thing than it used to be. anyway not that i don't appreciate his input, but i just wanted to clarify it wasn't me because i will genuinely listen to any advice i can get

>write something
>feel nervous and ashamed
>finish it
>Suddenly feel much more confident and think about how I could improve it

How do I get over that initial hurdle so I can stop making anemic first drafts?

>>22308701
I liked to watch/read awful fucking writing to make myself go "wow, I can do a lot better than this" and actually do it.

>>22308709
I hate that. I made it such a habit that now I can't improve anything and cannot think of an original idea of my own, only things I wish were done justice so I can "improve" them. I wish I had never taken the advice of people like you.

>>22308701
from my experience, i got a lot more confident in drafting by showing people those drafts and asking what individual parts they liked. you'll have to find someone whose opinion you trust, but having someone who'll also read subsequent drafts and be honest about whether they're better or not will help a lot. ironically, it's seeing how your efforts to improve something can often make it worse that makes you more confident in your first drafts.

i would honestly guess that most writers who are able to put out first drafts that aren't noticeably missing elements like a proper conclusion -- once they hit that point they're usually actually better drafters than revisers. people say revise revise revise, but no one points out that oftentimes revisions take you into a valley of being worse than what you had before and a work doesn't just get better every single time you touch it.

>>22308751
>you'll have to find someone whose opinion you trust
The only people like that are incapable of telling me what they actually liked, they only criticize relentlessly and then remind me they didn't hate ALL of it

>>22308625
I don't know anything about the whole agent part of it.
But I think the publishers might be able to give you some advice or contacts or hook you up with agents maybe, if that is needed.
I certainly wouldn't be afraid to ask them if it was me and I would aim for in person contact, because it shows more skin in the game than a text or an e-mail.
I would bring finished copies or a couple of chapters of the text for example, together with a short summary of the book and a little information about the book, the intention behind it and so on, plus contact information (email and phone) and invite them to call you up so they can easily get a hold of you, together with a picture of yourself and a very short description of who you are, and put it all in a binder for them to look at or send or give to agents or whatever.
But again, I don't know how the whole deal works. I'm thinking more from a practical common sense perspective of what I would do myself to make a good first impression.
I think showing up with it all prepared and ready to go shows that you're serious about it. At least that's what I would think if I was the publisher.

>>22308718
I didn't tell you to rip shit off nigger. I'm saying that you could look at some absolutely shit writing examples, get mad about it and write your own thing that will be good.

>>22308765
Nope, it's specifically "write this thing but better, do it justice"

>>22308772
Sounds like a skill issue that you need to work out.

>>22308784
Sounds like you got stuck in a corner with your bad advice and tried to meme your way out of it.

>>22308759
you'll find people who are good at different things. it's rare to have that magical person who has good taste, an honest sense of their feelings and a willingness to express it, as well as an ability to express it. if you find that person never let them go, seriously.

the categories of readers roughly correspond to what i just pointed out. honestly the most common type of reader you need is just someone who has an honest grasp of their own feelings. it's weird, but a lot of people do not really emotionally engage with stuff they consume and they just... make up stuff when they explain how they felt. i really can't describe it as anything except that. it's sort of like kids in ap literature who get called on by the teacher. plenty of people are smart enough to say things that fit the bill, even if they don't care about what they're consuming. the difference here is they're not aware they don't care, and out of either politeness or a feeling that they need to be useful they'll magnify their impressions in one direction or the other even though they were really just ambivalent.

the next type of reader is someone you consider to have good taste. a lot like the critics you just mentioned these people are usually bucket crabs, and that's because they're more discerning. by my take, the more you can pin someone down to idiosyncratic tastes, the more you can trust their judgment here so long as you adjust for their biases.

finally there are people who actually give good direction on your writing. usually these will be writers you trust, but unfortunately not every writer that you know is good is a writer you should trust to give feedback. there are plenty of good writers who are also way too dogmatic and prescriptive about what something 'should' be, and they'll just insert their vision of what you're making instead of trying to figure out what you, the author, have as a vision. unfortunately, talent lines up often enough with intransigence and dogmatism that most writers you know who are worth a shit will kinda fall into this. that's why a good rule of thumb is that people who are good at nonfiction will be better feedback. even if they're dogmatic, it'll be for a completely different type of work.

>>22308828
my grammar got a bit wonky so to clarify what i meant in my last paragraph: not every good writer is a writer who gives good feedback, and oftentimes it's precisely the qualities that make them a good writer that make them bad for giving feedback for something out of their wheelhouse

>>22308803
>bad advice
I'm writing a completely original thing and I'm motivated to finish it. How about you?

>>22308937
>>22308803
stop fighting about stupid shit and just work on crossing your own finish line. i don't usually say hugbox shit but genuinely there are enough people out in the world who will give you shit and won't respect you as a writer, that there's no need to posture over this among people genuinely trying to make it.

Is self-publishing a meme?

>>22308944
Yeah, posturing retards like >>22308937 desperate to defend his own bad advice.

>>22308980
It depends on what your goals are and how competent you are at getting the book out there.
If you're writing for a very niche community then it's fine. If you want more than that, it requires more work. Self-publishing gives you more control over how to go about it, so it pays off better for industrious and diligent writers. Keep in mind you don't have to do those things totally on your own. I've heard of plenty of authors team up with their spouse or just hire people for certain tasks to save time.

>>22308980
As in the dawkins definition? Yes, self publishing and publishing are both memes.

>>22308989
i dont see it as awful advice. it's definitely true that there's a trap there. i've met a lot of writers-who-dont-actually-write that are basically walking tvtropes, and it's also true that when they do make stuff the walking tvtropes types end up ironically making pretty derivative stuff. the terrible writing advice guy's book kinda sucks, though i honestly hate his videos anyway.

anyway, all that said, there's nothing wrong with derivative works anyway, but besides that if you're smart and cognizant rip off and improve is a demonstrably tried and true method. i am too retarded and tired right now to fashion an example off the top of my head though.

>>22309011
Could you elaborate on why you hate his videos?

>>22308980
bot post

>>22308980
Yes. Now go advertise on tiktok

>>22309025
Why do you say that every thread

>>22308468
So, I'm in a similar situation as you except my protagonist isn't white, but Hispanic. Thing is, I wrote it as YA, only to find out after the fact that boys barely read novels and a straight male protagonist has become an incredibly hard sell for that age demographic. Now I'm trying to market it as adult while still keeping him and most of the other main characters teenagers, because making them all adults would kind of nuke the story. And the whole time, I'm learning more about the industry and how much worse things have become for the writer in recent years as far as being expected to do your own marketing, declining sales, etc. It's all been very discouraging and is making me consider alternative approaches.

>>22309070
>boys barely read novels
According to who, the publishers that make it impossible for boys to read and enjoy novels by only publishing crap they would never read?

>>22309020
idk it's not entirely for unpetty reasons. for one thing i just hate his fucking voice, and then i hate his stupid smug face shtick.

i do have creative issues with him but i dont watch enough of him to fully substantiate them, i literally can't stand watching his shit so i'm never gonna watch enough to see if i'm justified. in general, i dont really like the type of content creator who just goes after low hanging fruit in genre fiction, and almost all the stuff he criticizes i dont think he understands the tradeoffs. basically, i think his opinions on what constitute good writing are well within the current writing vogue: an emphasis on character development, an aversion to anything that resembles artifice or convenient device, and a strong belief that world building should be detailed.

i think you can make a strong argument that if you want to make something literary it needs to check off all those boxes. i don't really agree but the argument is there. the thing is he clearly is talking about genre fiction, because it's also in the current vogue to not be pretentious and therefore to respect genre fiction. so when i see stuff like commander contrarian, all i can think is god who fucking gives a shit? this idea that every character needs to be three dimensional with complex motivations in every work ever no with no context for what people are consuming the work for is insane. there's a reason armchair critics don't tend to make good stuff. it seems to me that they see the craftsmanship of writing as a long list of amateur mistakes to avoid, and as a result they never end up making anything remotely inspired. and frankly, they're usually not even that competent by their own standards.

he also says some real dipshit things sometimes. i remember one video he made a joke about how gold from dungeons is still recognized as mint even if it's been sitting there for hundreds of years. yeah no shit you fucking moron, it's fucking gold. that is the literal point of gold, that it is a chemically unreactive and rare store of value. it's just this smartass-but-not-actually-smart combo i fucking hate.

>>22309080
>gold
>store of value

>>22309076
>>22309070
yeah this is what's really frustrating. i really don't want to turn this thread into /pol/, but frankly it's really fucking annoying to read on every female literary agent's profile that they're looking to expand the market for women, and that they want to serve underserved voices. women are most of the people in the industry, most of the consumers, and at this point most of the main characters. it is just nuts reading yet another agent's page about how she's looking for a literal plucky female protagonist, with the subtext that she wants something new and different.

and then the worst part is that the bottom of the barrel profit chasers see this market narrowing behavior and act like it's some inevitability that boys don't read and men only read john grisham and nonfiction.

i mean look i dont want to turn this into my personal blog, and i'm sure because i'm venting i'm making all kinds of excuses for myself, but goddamn.

>>22309087
You had 5000 years.

>>22309087
i am not an expert on this but i'm pretty sure that in antiquity the content of the precious metal would be much more important than the mint of any specific country. anyway, that doesn't stop it from being a stupid low hanging fruit criticism from the guy, since gold is still gonna be valuable whether or not it sat in a chest for a thousand years. certainly in some medieval society.

still that's just getting caught in the weeds. i really don't like this approach to criticism and creativity in general.

>>22309109
i said antiquity and medieval like they're the same thing so now i look like a retard but whatever you get what i mean

>>22309109
>gold is still gonna be valuable

>>22309076
Pretty much. It's a bit of a chicken and the egg situation. Teenage boys reading novels started declining as video games got bigger and bigger, then Hunger Games, Twilight, and other late 2000's/early 2010's girl megahits came out and I guess publishers figured "If boys aren't reading, fuck em." Now the boys are all reading manga, webnovels, or just skipping YA entirely after middle grade and going to adult books.

>>22309093
Nah, man, I absolutely get it. It's infuriating to know that if I switched my protagonist's role in the story with his younger sister's, my novel would be a perfect fit for the young adult demographic. I understand that for a long time, it was hard for girls to find female-led books that weren't romance, but now they're overcorrecting and it's causing a ton of boys to turn away from reading entirely. Royal Road has basically taken off because of this gap in the market they've created.

>>22309093
One single look at royalroad shows hundreds of blatantly male oriented fiction that receive lavish praise, and that's but one example for genre fiction.

The only way you could say "men don't read anymore" with a straight face is if you exclusively looked at what gets published, and more specifically what gets published by mainstream publishers who are mainly staffed by women, who only listen to female agents, who only want female authors or female(male) authors. The YA dystopia genre has deteriorated so hard from this that the moment you bring up the idea of writing one, people will start memeing at you about plucky female MCs. I will be blunt, if you are writing about a male protagonist, particularly a straight one, and you want him to be doing traditional straight male things like getting a girlfriend or succeeding in the face of adversity instead of acquiescing to it as befits his privilege, you are going to be far more successful if you self publish instead.

>>22309137
is royal road big? i was considering starting a wn as a side project while i do queries and trying to build an author platform. being straight up with it after five years writing my 'serious' book i am burned the fuck out for a while and just want to write some genre fiction in the genres i enjoy myself.

>>22309137
>>22309148
really now... can you guys royalpill me? i have seriously been under a rock while i was writing shit. i am completely lost as for what the best tack is for minmaxing my success as an author besides querying twiddling my thumbs trying to get feedback on those queries and praying

>>22309137
It's not much of a chicken and egg situation when publishers, just like you and me, can look at what fiction is STILL wildly popular with boys instead of treating them as nonexistent. There's nothing stopping these female agents from researching what works, allowing a more traditional novel to be published and marketing it for a male audience, and profiting.

>>22309157
Have you ever read an ongoing web serial? The most important thing is frequent, reliable updates. Ideally you should be releasing at least one chapter every single day.

>>22309186
i was a big fan of second coming of gluttony's wn lol. i even paid extra money for early chapter access...

>>22309203
You... Did support the original author, right? You didn't pay for some "translator" group to feed you pre MTLed slop, right?

>>22309214
i feel like i remember reading that the translator group did it with the original's permission. i even remember reading something where the original author was amazed his stuff was being read overseas. but i might be blurring things together from another wn or making it up idk.

>>22309080
who are you talking about? sanderson?

I really like stream of consciousness writing. So I'm going to bed now to dream the writings of my consciousness.
It's a great task to make a dream I guess, it's actually really weird sometimes.
I don't know, maybe dreams are just there for fun or something. They're certainly there, like in they're really there, and I experience them just as if I dreamed it up, and then I wake up.
But then I remember I was dreaming and then I put my head deep in the pillow and snuggle up and try to sleep as fast as I can.
There's something about dreams that I don't understand, but I don't quite know what it is.
Now I don't know what to think, but that's ok. I guess it's ok, I don't know it for certain, but I'll have to live with it. Ahh yes. I guess I'll have to live with a lot of things. For example my body just to mention, and food and all of that other stuff, and I'm not really certain what it is exactly. I guess it's just something I believe is there really. I'm not really sure I can believe myself not to have a body, since I already believe I'm in one, and I think I need to have a body in order to be able to believe. So I guess that's that. It's kind of fun to explore my consciousness like this without making corrections. I can go back at it later and amuse myself, and that's pretty neat. It's like a recording of myself but it's made of little squiggles in stead of flesh and bones and blood and all that. But it's not the same when I go back and read it as when I write it, because I'm in another conscious state at that point. Because when I'm writing this exact word, like this one, or this one, I still don't know what's coming next, it isn't decided yet. But when I go back to read it, everything is already there and It's not up to me to make it then.
So I guess it's actually real or something.
But I dream it up, so I don't really know.
People say dreams aren't real, but I guess they are after all.
Good night.

>>22309456
My dreams rarely have any literary qualities.
What a ripoff.

Hey /wg/, haven't posted here in a while. Not sure what the vibe is anymore. Got a new laptop and want to test out they keyboard. So how about I be an ideas guy for a post.

I want to write a k-mart realism kind of legal novel, but instead of the Grisham bullshit and all the previous attempts by lawyers to lower themselves (or perhaps aren't capable of writing to a higher degree) write something maximalist. It's such a complete turn off to watch or read 95% of things related to lawyers because they always get things so wrong or dumb it down for the audience. I want something with footnotes and end notes of the law the character uses and interacts with. Entire chapters are just the briefs/motions filed or formatted as court transcripts so things like off the record talk is only referenced in other parts. Monologues turned essays about jurisprudence from different perspectives.

I think it would be kinda neat to pull a DFW, but instead of the IRS or Rehab it's about a group of lawyers who practice in different fields.

I feel like it would be very niche, read only by sovereign citizens or attorneys who read (lol we are the 1%).

Thoughts?

>>22309549
sounds boring?
people can read real cases for free

>>22309549
I would like to read a novel where the sovereign citizens win and they get a big chunk of land and they can finally have their free country and live in truth and freedom, and then a lot of interaction where they deal with common everyday problems and how they solve it in their new country.

>>22309616
So, "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand?

Can any gun autists here give me tips for writing gun usage? Any dos and don'ts?

>>22309286
i do hate sanderson but im talking about the terrible writing advice guy. thats the name of his channel

My mental has never yo yo'd harder in my entire life than since I started writing.

>>22309670
go a gun range and fire a gun yourself. It will add authenticity to your prose.

>>22309627
No. Atlas shrugged without ayn rand would be a better way to say it.
>>22309616
This is a good idea

>>22309152
>>22309157
The top authors on there are making thousands a month on patreon/paypal donations. The Trailer Trash/Animecon Harem author posts here sometimes and he's making nearly 5K per month. For reference, the average advance nowadays on a traditionally published novel is about that much and unless you earn out, which 70% of books don't, you won't be receiving royalties. Webnovels that make this much are, of course, the exceptions and not the rule, but they're showing it's completely possible to make a living this way if you work hard enough at it. I'm seriously considering it myself at the moment since I've got a backlog of about 200K words to draw from. From what I've seen, some genres like LitRPG/Isekai will have more success than others, so you'd need to make sure your work is a good fit. Some authors seem to pull their work and sell it on Amazon when they're done after giving their readers a few weeks notice, while starting work on their next book on RR.

>>22309186
I absolutely agree with you. Problem is, the average publisher/agent doesn't give a shit about self-publishing until it's making huge 50 Shades of Grey money. I don't think they realize how much money some of these authors are making or that a manga like Demon Slayer outsells the entire American comic industry. They just see boys not buying the female driven YA, when girls were buying male driven YA for decades and figure there's something wrong with the boys. The publishing industry's lack of ability to adapt is part of what's killing it and making it increasingly less appealing for male authors.

>>22309670
do the opposite of what the ATF does

>>22309616
>>22309582
Ah. Thanks /wg/. Glad to get quality input as always.

>>22306769
I’m >>22306405. Okay so, honestly I’m really liking this man. There are some lines that come off as cliches but I think you’re gonna do something good with them and that it’s with a specific purpose. It’s interesting your story is being very vague with the specific plot but honestly I feel like you could be more creative than using analogies like cogs of a machine to be the mind. Overall though I’m liking how you’re telling the story and as with before most of the lines and generally prose is good. I really like “into that gray color i pioneered” that just comes off very well to me. It’s actually a little disappointing that’s all you’re willing to share but do what you have to do man

>>22309677
Nta. The guy is definitely reddit tier, but he goes for "low hanging fruit" of shit derivative writing. I don't know who can complain about it being an attack on their writing without realizing that the writing is stereotypical teen fanfic type. If you use some time for studying the genre and developing a more original and well constructed story you will not need an advice on how to turn a shitty isekai litRPG into an interesting isekai litRPG. That's not an argument about authenticity of art at this level.

>>22309726
Related, but for any web serial authors here, what's the main advice you can give for going about it? I'm thinking about giving it a shot, but the idea of being unable to go back and change things when I discover more of the plot is a big hurdle for me.

>>22309549
Lots of people like boring in depth procedural shit in documentary or podcast form. A book is harder. But Moby Dick is mostly boring facts about whaling. As long as there's still a good story there, it's totally possible to accomplish, though few will appreciate your effort.

>>22309670
Guns are very loud.

>>22309670
Finger off the trigger until you want to kill.
Don't point the gun at anything you don't want full of holes.
Do not flag shit you don't want full of holes with the barrel, see above.
Always assume the gun is loaded, even if you checked it 5 seconds ago. Even if you literally unloaded the gun just a moment ago and looked away, the bullet goblins already slipped a round into the chamber.
Guns are loud. Very loud. If you shoot guns without ear protection get ready to meet your new lifelong friend Tinnitus.

Do you want general gun usage in civilian, non-combat spectrum like this? Or gun usage as in actual usage for what they were intended for?

>>22309754
Yeah sure I'm sure a decent chunk of what he says is reasonable, but I mostly hate him beginning with his voice.

>>22309792
Very informative post, I appreciate it.
Just contemporary professional assassins. I'm also curious how to convey someone's personality through their gun/the way they handle it.

>>22309762
Get a big backlog. Consistent updates (use timed auto updater). Consistent chapter sizes. Consistent editing. It's better to do 3 chap/wk standard than try an inhuman pace and burn out. Hiatuses will kill hype and readership. Dropped works will sow distrust for future attempts. Minimal engagement with fans to be cool; no engagement with trolls and spiteful reviewers.

You can potentially go back and fix smaller things as long as you give the audience forewarning that they're reading a first draft first and tell them when an old chapter is updated. Like patch notes. People are much more forgiving of webfic and amateur writers.

If you aren't an outliner, force yourself to make at least a sketchy outline of the story even if it's painful for you. Plan the main arcs. You might not stick to it completely, but it will save you hitting a total dead end or going too off the rails.

>>22309786
I suppose that is where the idea is headed towards. I listen to a few podcasts and read some blogs that are aimed at attorneys of a particular practice in a particular state. Their audiences are abysmally small. I don't expect to garner a broad audience. I just know the whole 'write what you know' is one of the greatest truths to writing I've experienced.

Any story I've written is a shallow mess unless it's drawn from my personal experiences or extensive research. Maybe it doesn't have to be the entire book. Perhaps it's just one of the multiple characters in which the sections are written in a maximalist form to reflect his profession and being. Infinite jest but with alcoholic lawyers and punk rock degenerates instead of stoner tennis students and degenerate felons.

Thank you for actual input. It's appreciated.

>>22309824
An outliner? I thought outlines were mandatory unless you specifically want to wing it and improv

>>22309824
Good advice.
I'll add that handling the story's release is the most important part of becoming popular in a reasonable time frame. True quality will gain a readership no matter what, but if you don't want it to be painful and slow, then launch correctly: daily updates or more for at least the first two weeks, good cover, good blurb, good title.
Also, go read TheFirstDefier's guide to web fiction. That man makes a mil a year writing litrpg shlock and--regardless of what you think of its quality--he knows how to handle the marketing side (obviously). Why get the rundown second-hand instead of from the Patreon Kingpin himself?

>>22309824
All good ideas, thanks.

>>22309818
>I'm also curious how to convey someone's personality through their gun/the way they handle it.
Maintenance, handling, storage.

A sentimental person won't treat a gun as a disposable tool. An unprofessional idiot and/or slob won't have a well-maintained gun.

Also IRL assassinations using guns are very boring. It boils down to walking up a guy while he's busy with some shit, magdumping him for 80% of the mag and dumping the rest in the head and leaving before cops show up. It's not some sort of cool firefights or anything of the sort. There's no CSI bullshit either with "identifying the gun by the bullets", the best forensics can do is get the caliber and maybe barrel length and correlate it to a model.

>>22309856
For a normal book, you can wing it in a messy first draft then chop it up and rearrange it into some kind of structure. Add, erase, or modify parts. For a serial, that's not an option. So some kind of plan is a must.

>>22309856
They're a tool, not a law. What are outlines for? To keep consistent and organized. If you can manage without any, then why the fuck would you waste your time doing them?

thoughts. will be at the start of my book, which is about an indian man (the brown kind) walking across a desert.

> Each falling over each, the ground shakes as one struggles over another. Warm or cold, wet or dry, every one is above or below. None can share the highest point, but neither can one keep it. One from the top to the bottom in an eternal and infinite pile. The only way to truly be above it, is to not be a part of it, to stand greater than the rest. Either through separation, or through strife.

>>22310159
Indian as in Squanto or as in Rajpula.

>>22310182
Indian as in the darkest most black "Im High Caste so I am White" bloody bastard bitch bastard son of a bitch on Earth.
Theres a picture of a relatively muscular street laborer that I assume was from India which I used as my inspiration for the character; I dont have it now though I saw it several years ago.

Why do you ask?

Fear I may have gone a bit overboard with that last post

>>22310159
If by "start of my book" you mean the literal opening sentence, I think it's far too lost in abstraction. It makes it uncomfortable to read, because my mind has no grounding to stand on and no context to think about what you are trying to say. So it just sounds like meaningless mush. IMO if you're going to write something like that you need to lead into it and set it up. Unless your intention is truly to confuse and overwhelm the reader.

Also, a lot of the phrasing/pacing feels a little awkward to read. I think some slight rephrasing and moving/removing some commas would make it read better without forcing you to change your language that much.

>>22310189
Would change a lot about the setting and location if the guy in question was native.

>>22310222
In the next paragraph its pretty obvious Im talking about a pile of sand.
What would you think to be a good start?
>>22310232
Not the desert?

How do you get in moodfor writing so you don't get distracted by thoughts and internet?

>>22310407
See my post about witnessing dogshit writing to get mad about it and do better than the hack writer.

I want to write short stories as if they were a chapter in a full sized novel
Has this been done before?
Basically no structure

>>22310459
If on a winter’s night a traveler does this well

>>22310247
The climatic conditions of what specific desert he's crossing would change. The infrastructure built on that desert would change, etc.

In my political science thesis, I want to write about the divergent traditions across European countries concerning minimum wages and collective bargaining. However, I can't find the word for the respective policy field. It isn't really "social policy" is it? I also wouldn't quite say it's employment policy. Can somebody help me out? I came across the word "industrial relations" but I'd suppose this is more about employers and employees, which would cover collective bargaining but it seems to exclude the role of the state.

>>22309788
Wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh09rh9_svs

>>22310557
It's called communism.

How can I cope if I'm too much of an npc to write anything interesting?

>>22310645
Write about an NPC who can't write anything interesting. Women do that all the time.

>>22310661
So basically write about myself? I've been trying man...

>>22310557
In the US this is the field known as Labor Law, which is distinct from employment law (which is about not oppressing wamen or minorities or cripples). Id start there. Labor relations, maybe?

>>22310557
In Denmark it's 'overenskomspolitik' or 'overenskomst' it's part of the Danish 'Flexicurity' model also called 'Den Danske model' or 'the Danish model'. I can't find an equivalent word in English, the best translation of the word is 'mutual agreement' or settlement.
Overenskomst is an agreement between an employer organisation and a wage-reciever organisation about the minimum wage.
In Denmark there is no minimum wage set by law, it's up to the organizations to come to an agreement.

https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overenskomst

Anyone else have a switch flip in their head that made them believe "I need to become a career writer now"? Like, snagging a literary agent and embarking on traditional publishing, with the eventual goal of quitting your current career? (Asking for a friend).

>>22310407
I can only work in a place without internet, so I just take my shitty Thinkpad out to the park and stay there for a few hours
If you know you have an issue with distractions and procrastination, try to come up with solutions to work around that rather than trying to power through it

>>22311003
I think without internet I would much likely just lay down and do nothing than force myself to write.

>>22310826
In the US it’s called a collective bargaining agreement.

>>22310966
Yes.

I know adverbs are the ultimate kiss of death and all, and bad writers overuse them...but I am reading several 19th century authors rn who use them pretty effectively, and not alltogether infrequently. I wouldn't say Tolstoy is dripping with adverbs, but nigga used like one a page. What's the deal with adverbs?

>>22311187
i think a lot of that stuff is honestly just current fashion. my opinion here is heterodox but language itself is just as much of a medium as the specific method of transmission, like a novel or whatever, and people respond to what seems cliched badly. but what defines a cliche is that it's oversaturated. hence, as more and more people had more platforms to write, adverbs as a path of least resistance for certain types of expression became a cliche associated with amateurs, especially because it went against the retarded show don't tell vogue.

my tack on it is that with any of these poo'pooh'd cliches, be aware that people have intrinsic negative responses to them... i mean, look no one's gonna care if you say someone did something stealthily. i just mean that if it's enough that someone notices it, it's probably worth asking if it's tangibly improving your prose that makes it more valuable than the stigma of amateurism.