/lit/ - Literature

Uggggg got off thank you master.

being rejected doesn't feel half as bad as I expected.

I really don't want to know if I got rejected or accepted. I'm so nerves and shit.

>>2222902
I feel that your issues lack graphic appeal. They're too plain.

I try and I try and I try. But the writing has turned me away. I can't do it: I can't read it any of it. There are parts, I must confess, a sentence here a sentence there, that hold some prosaic form; but alas I continually feel worn out without finishing a colum.

Maybe I am just expecting too much or anticipating too little. I don't know.

>>2222932

theology_and_geometry.mp3

>>2222932
By the way you write I'd say you should shut the fuck up.

>>2222931
We've been talking about getting illustrators or graphic artists for months. We're working on making TAR a lot more aesthetic.

If anyone has suggestions or would like to refer someone to TAR, we'd definitely love to solidify that as part of the TAR makeup.

>>2222937
Don't make it some gay fucking fantasy hurr durr illustrations everywhere shit.

I definitely enjoy how bare the pages are really. Text,not fucking with pretty pictures. Some of the poetry is pretty "hurr durr" though, especially Immune Blues. It's an intensely boring emo kid sad that his girlfriend left. It's all cliches and boring.

>>2222937
Your logo is ugly and plain, as well as the issues. Don't get too graphic either, just a nice frontpage and some classy stuff for your intro and stuff. No images.

A Storm Surrounds Us:

Honestly, I went into this story with a hostile attitude. Present tense, fairly typical issues, etc. Yet I actually got drawn in. The prose flows nicely except for one or two awkward tense shifts and I actually ended up caring about the characters. On a certain level it reminded me of one of my friends who isn't doing well right now. Good stuff.

>>2222902
I wonder why there was no award for excellence... Does the issue suck ass?

Not really sad my poem didn't make it. I wrote it in half an hour, proofread it once and submitted it.

Next time, though. Watch out fuckers.

>>2222967
Lol thanks I wrote that one. And as anon said the "hurr durr" poem as well. Thanks for the feed back!

>TAR not using the name I gave them.

who cares at least I got in this time

Which issue is the parrot dick story in?

>>2222984
july

>>2222992
Thanks. When you think about it, the story has to have something to it if it can evoke the types of emotions I feel when reading it.

>>2222974
Same here. But I got in.

>>2222999
Makes you want to fuck a parrot?
Nice 9s parrot fucker.

Buried In Water:

Oh man....I'm sorry, I'm not digging it. Not at all. I don't like romance stories to begin with, but this honestly reads like how I imagine Nicholas Sparks novels to be. Ugh. It's a cliche, but SHOW don't tell. It's just paragraph after paragraph about how these very generic characters feel and we only get little bits of actual plot here and there to explain WHY they feel like that and it's not convincing. In all seriousness, if you want to purse this kind of writing for middle aged women and teenage girls, I'd say go for it. I think they'd dig this kind of stuff and it could be lucrative.

Man... some of this poetry. What were they thinking putting this in? Immune Blues, i gcogar, and twelve ounce with an extra shot of Pseudophedrine are downright embarrassments. The rest are crap except Woolf. Ratings (on a TAR scale):

>Immune Blues
Boring, rambling, trite word vomit. Horrible concept, horrible execution.
2/10

>twelve ounce with an extra shot of Pseudophedrine
You're a pathetic loser, we get it. Not worth writing down, let alone making a "poem" about. Throwing in some line-breaks a half-hearted alliteration does not make this clunky prose a poem.
0/10

>Night
Interesting imagery. Some good words. But I don't think it really connects and executes a concept fully.
6/10

>Woolf
The best poem I've seen in TAR yet. I love the bottomless well metaphor. The wood cabin works as well.
9/10

>Untitled
Yoda speaking, thesaurus thumping trash. Wow, you used the word didacticism! Not like that is clunky and awkward as hell.
2/10

>I Wish On A Wrinkle
Says nothing. But the words are alright.
5/10

>i gcogar
Look at me momma, I'm usin' tha WORDS! This poem is like a Thesaurus had explosive diarrhea. It's awful. Not only that, it commits the most embarrassing mistake of trying to ape ancient Greek poetic ideas. This piece of crap is trying so hard to be a poem. But it isn't.
1/10

>>2223018
ouch

>>2223018
I agree. Woolf is great.

and I fucking hated i gcogar too.

Moira:

First thing I thought of from the title was "Moria" from LOTR. I actually thought that's what it said for a second. Anyway, I'm sick of dystopias so I didn't like that part of the story, but the cult aspect actually seemed pretty interesting. But even so, it was really short and even with some of the interesting ideas, nothing feels fleshed out and complete so it kind of falls flat to me. I say drop the dystopia (there's just too much of that shit right now) and focus on developing the cult.

Altar Boy:

Hm. Seemed like it was going to be speculative fiction with Vatican II mentioned early on but then it wasn't. It was just reminiscing and then some narrator being pissed about changes to the church. Not really bad I guess. It just didn't do anything for me. I don't know the protagonist well enough to care about his grievances.

>>>/r9k/570555

>>2223018
I thought "twelve ounces" was one of the better poems. It had some nice imagery at least.

I Must Be Dreaming:

This one might be my favorite. The Russian tidbits were interesting, the writing flows very smoothly and there's an ominous feeling in the end that feels a bit like the ending of a Cortazar short story. All in all I think it's a tight, solid story. Well done.

put it on my kindle and will read on the train to work. i'll give my critiques of all the fiction when i get home.

>>2223079
i love this story a lot. it's fascinating how short it is, given how it lingers in my mind

I don't understand the poetry. Maybe I just can't read it correctly. Does it all really suck or do I not know how to into poetry? Might just stick to the prose and post some prose feed back.

>>2223102
Nope, poetry, as usual, was terrible this issue.

Elegy for an Emperor:

I hate the narrator and that sort of kills this one for me. If there was wit or he was saying something profound I could probably get something out of this, but he just comes off as a boring misanthrope. And I'm sorry, but the name dropping and French strike me as pretentious. Both of those things are fine but I just didn't care for how they were used here.

Let's see here...
Volunteer Opportunities:
Horrible shit. Whoever wrote this should break a glass dildo off in their asshole and never write again. I am embarrassed for this fucking pleb.

***

Overall, I'm not crazy about this edition to be honest :-\ I'm guessing that with finals coming up a lot of people are busy so it was sort of tough for everyone involved to make this happen. Hopefully with the winter break there'll be an opportunity for a stronger issue next time. Still, I applaud the effort.

>Horrible shit. Whoever wrote this should break a glass dildo off in their asshole and never write again. I am embarrassed for this fucking pleb.

Laughing my balls off. Going to read that one just because of this.

>>2223103
>>2223103
You asshole. I'm not reading all of those. Just post a x/10 underneath each story.

>>2223105
Sweet syntax, bro.

>>2223105
>/lit/
>doesn't submit poetry
>everything was awful
>unecl dolan
>everything was expensive

Was it just me or were there some really bad editing jobs on some of the stories. Poetry too. I guess. Just thought some of the grammar seemed off and noticed a few things that seemed they should have been looked at a little more thoroughly. Just saying.

I submitted one of the best poems I've ever written. I tried to make it very subtle and tasteful yet still say something powerful and important to me. I worked hard to connect the themes and ideas together through each section, and present them in a non-pretentious way. My poem intentionally didn't use any florid wording, it is direct and every line says something that I honestly mean.

To see some of these other poems accepted over mine is... disheartening (no offense). Especially when I've had significantly worse poems accepted in the past. I don't mean to sound rude or bitter, but some of these poems just seem like big collections of fancy words. I support TAR, but I have to question the judgement of poetry acceptance. Not just because my poem was rejected, but because of the flimsy and thoughtless things that ARE published.

>>2223276
Post your poem. It might not be as good as you thought. It might be damn good. We won't know unless you post.

>>2223281
I kind of hesitate to post it now because the context is, "the rejected TAR poem". I fear people will only look at it in that context and read it without giving it a chance. Oh well, guess it's foolish to be afraid of that stuff:

Today was a dark day
and to it I say:
Good Riddance.
No more waiting for tomorrow
or its brass beams of light.
Dear Gwen, thanks for the thoughts
but I'll be alright.

You told me once that
time is a fire so we’re
left sifting through ash.
...did you mean that?

Today was a lonely day
and to it I say:
Goodbye.
Someday in the light maybe
our minds will meet.
Dear Gwen, are you still out there
in the rivers and streets?

You asked me once if
when you lose it, is
it gone for good?
...I wish I knew.

Tomorrow will be a lighter day,
and for it I say:
Thanks.
Time is coming and no-
body will be spared.
Dear Gwen, you go ahead
and I will meet you there.

>>2223011

Author here. Thanks for the feedback - I understand your complaints as I was trying to give the story a universal feel but strayed a bit too much into cliche and stereotypes. At the same time, I didn't want to write the plot conventionally (ie super descriptive action) but was going for more of a soft-spoken sad story vibe. Basically I was shooting for the voice of the narrator in "The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford". Also, neither romance nor fictional prose are my standard gotos so don't worry about me flooding the market with more pointless drivel ala Sparks.

bump

>>2223211
Can you pinpoint some areas in specific?

In truth, I was expecting some comments about this. I'm the one who proofreads most of the stories, and the method in which I do it is a "proofing for readability." If the sentences are reasonably understandable and readable the first go around, I generally leave them alone, regardless of the errors. I do this for two reasons:

1.) I like to give the author the benefit of authorship. Often, what readers consider to be the errors of a work are really just the author asserting a stylistic choice. An example I can give is TerraByte's "I Must Be Dreaming." Toward the end, there is a sentence that runs, "In his dream, him and I speed through the country on a dirt road." Obviously, it is wrong to have "him" as the subject of a sentence, but I left it as it came to me, because I liked it, and I thought it retained a (for lack of a better word) Russian-ness to the piece. I have good friends that are Russian, Czech, Slovak, so I know that errors are so easily made in going from a slavic language to English (or vice versus) because the languages are so very different from each other.
"A Storm Surrounds Us," likewise, stayed much the way it was submitted, because the piece is entirely in the voice of the narrator, and narrators don't all speak like English professors.

2.) I'm very much against re-writing things that get submitted to TAR. This would take far too much of my time and effort, and it would piss off the authors, besides. I know that professional editors revamp and reform and reword entire texts, but that is not how TAR has opted to ...well, operate. It'd be great if TAR could hold conference with the authors and advise them on reworking their submissions into even better pieces, but this is just not feasible.

Got accepted :3

My fucking face when I was expecting the release this afternoon and so am just now seeing this thread.

>>2223034
Writer of Moira here. Just to clarify, Moira is an old female name meaning 'star of the sea'.

>>2223528

Oh my fucking god. All the poetry in this issue is awful. It's so much worse than the last few issues. I'm hesitant to even read the prose. Maybe later.

>>2223211
Another thing I'd like you to embellish upon is the poetry segment of your comment. I don't think I fully understand what you mean. Poetry is (or is supposed to be) a very exacting art form. All the syllables are measured and placed with care, and to edit poetry is to disrupt that precision, which disrupts the makeup of the whole piece. I guess I'd like to know how you think the poems should have been edited.

>>2223534
Not the guy you're talking to, but:
>All the syllables are measured and placed with care

Not in TAR they're not. There isn't an issue of TAR where even half the poems published fit what you just said.

Also, your reasons (read: excuses) for not editing the prose properly are flimsy and really just boil down to you not wanting to invest all that time in it. Why not just admit that if you were willing to put forth the effort and spend the time that you would indeed edit them, and that your author's intent argument and the "because I liked it" shit wouldn't matter?

>>2223540
it should be the author's responsibility to edit and reedit their work, not TAR's. i understand the argument that they shouldn't print something that hasn't been properly edited and i DO think they should return any such pieces and ask for further editing by the author. putting the responsibility of actually editing the piece on TAR is obviously unfeasible for an unpaid staff of 3

>>2223549
If TAR sent pieces back to the author for editing and refused to publish shit with errors and all, they wouldn't stay afloat. By publishing material that hasn't been edited they make the zine look shitty. I didn't say it's unreasonable to not want to invest the time and effort into editing the submissions, but I would appreciate it if he'd just be upfront about it and not use those feeble arguments as excuses.


I would love to come on as an editor, and I see there is a spot open (RIP Nipplelesshorse), but I don't want anything to do with advertising. Oh well.

>>2223549
Given that the spend the time changing British spellings to the US version I think they could probably put that time to better use and actually edit mistakes.

>>2222902
>That feel when you're rejected THREE TIMES from this only to find the quality of writing they do publish isn't much better... if not worse.

>>2223569
>that feel when you submit twice and are accepted twice

>>2223559
>changing UK to US
Why? Why would they do this. English zines don't change their filthy language to European English.
This is the most absurd shit I've heard. Are americans really that fucking stupid they need everything edited to USenglish?

>>2223573
And do they edit English slang as well to be more americanised?

Fuck this stupid piece of shit.

>>2223569
your stuff might be worse than you think it is

>>2223573
any confirmation from editors that they actually do this?

>>2223573
They might just open it in word and let spellcheck 'fix' everything.

>>2223554
They're not mere excuses. We editors respect TAR's authors just as much as we respect our readers. It isn't easy finding a happy medium in pleasing them both.

If we went through and totally rewrote all our submissions, they would cease to be the authors' work. I think you have the impression that I'm just lazy and merely want to copy and paste and be done with it, but you don't know all the revisions I have made. Any author of this issue can tell you there were changes made. I soent many long hours on this issue.

The TerraByte example, if you looked at it reasonably, could have easily been corrected in a few keystrokes. Ni ammount of laziness can properly explain why I decuded to leave it as it was.

>>2223569
>>2223570
>That feel when you submit shit you know wont be accepted , and then still feel a bit rejected when it's not used.

Rory O'Connor...you are a bad person.

>>2223580
I use British spellings, myself, so, no, it is not true.

>>2223559
Can you point out where this happened, specifically?

Skim milk seemed like the healthier
alternative to a sugary glass of orange juice but he had read
somewhere that the OJ might alleviate his hangover more
efficiently.

>Oh jesus, skipping this

>>2223585
Nowhere did I say that I want you to rewrite submissions. That would be stupid and offensive. I actually don't have any major gripes with the editing and think it has improved a lot since TAR started.

Why are you giving us reasons you don't edit pieces if you're also saying that you spend all this time editing and make all these revisions? If that's the case, just ask for specific examples of oversights when someone brings up the issue. Don't argue with us needlessly.

>>2222937

Yeah, the site is really ugly. That shouldn't be that important, but everybody knows it is. If a writer just randomly stumbled onto your site I'm guessing he wouldn't even think of submitting. It looks bad.

Alos, about all the poor content. Maybe you should consider not giving yourself a deadline. There are some pretty prestigious publications online that just randomly shit out content, sometimes waiting months before anything appears, but when it does appear it's always good. Plus, not knowing when it's released gives it some mystery and surprise.

I wish I wasn't such a beginner with InDesign, I'd offer to help. Maybe after this semester if TAR is still around I will dedicate my time.

Plain white home page

'TAR' in large balck helvetica

Links underneath title to 'archive' 'latest issue' 'about' 'submit'

And that would look clean, simple and pretty cool. This site has a similar design http://www.spectermagazine.com/

Also, ditch the name 'the april reader'. It sounds old fashioned. Seriously. It sounds stupid and kinda trite but you need to be 'cool'.

>>2223610
i approve of this anon's suggestions. The April Reader isn't that bad, but just stick with TAR.

>>2223610

Or a plain black home page laid out a little like this

>>2223610
>>2223623

I think the only thing I missed out there is a link to 'contact'. You need a page that lists email addresses for queries, twitter pages, google plus pages, facebook pages (yes, you do need to actuvely use social media).

Get rid of the comment feature on the page. Any comments should be emailed to you. It looks unprofessional and opens you up to attacks that other people (anyone not from 4chan) might actually take seriously.

>>2223629
If you make a twitter, instead of only having like 10 followers for months and looking like sad lonely virgins, make a junk twitter called something stupid and use the #teamfollowback #followme hashtags extensively. After you have racked up a few hundred idiots you unfollow them all and change your name to TAR and start following relevant people/writers/other magazines. #protip

- Monthly Published Writer Contributions. Getting in touch with published writers to provide a short piece or advice column for TAR. I'm not sure how easy this would be but to add it to he publication as a regular feature would boost credibility.

- Monthly Features. To add a more lucid structure to the publication you might suggest themes

>>2223610

Agree with most of this.

You should consider using tumblr/blogspot and buying the domain. Also, consider tasteful/appropriate illustrative elements along with your publications, perhaps you could have 'themes' (broad ones, of course, to give authors freedom) and have a design ethos to fit around those ala The Drawbridge (http://www.thedrawbridge.org.uk/))

>>2223610
>>2223610

>trying to turn it into a hipster publication

nope faglit

>>2223610
>like TAR would print Hipster shit.
It's made up of neckbeards.

>>2222902
I will gladly submit to TAR further ahead.

But I have some opinions:
>Change the fucking name
The april reader is an awful name. There is literally no understanding of what it means or where it comes from. (I probably got its name because first issue came in April durrhurr stupid)

> The format and layout is atrocious
I have a master in Journalism and communication science.
And let me tell you. That is some of the worst layout i've ever seen. Everything from title, fontselection, spacing etc...

Improve design and change name.
The webpage is easy but looks like shit.

>>2223668

You're obviously know shit about online literature.

>>2223719
April is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.

>>2223726
I lol'd

>>2223719
>>2223667
>>2223661
>>2223655
>>2223629
>>2223623
>>2223616
>>2223610
>>2223603
Agree with all of this.

>>2223721

you're obviously know to do what gained as it were said.

>>2223590


Irish fags all think they are fucking Oscar Wilde, Joyce, Yeats, swift, Seamus Heaney, Bram stoker and Beckett just because they come from the same country.

>>2223743
>>2223590
>>2223031
>>2223018
ITT: clay crabs of corruption.

Why not change TAR to /lit/, /LIT/, LIT?
I'd feel a mucher larger connection to an e-zine that stems from the community that i've learned and discuss with?

My understanding is that it TAR originally was created from this very board.

Not to mention all the other boards on this place would read it more often since it would be an "anonymous product".

Now it seems more like a ICANHASCHEESEBURGERS or LOLCATS or some other memewebsite that's disenfranchised from 4chans community.

>>2223784
The point is 4chan is 90% faggots and it wants to distance itself from said faggots.

I mean, do you tell people you go to 4chan?
I'm ashamed as fuck.

>>2223784

That's interesting, but TAR needs to seperate from 4chan to survive really, and attatching a magazine to 4chan in such an obvious way will bring such a stigma to it.

Plus, everyone associates 4chan with anonymity and I doubt most writers would contribute their best work if they can't get credit for it, yet if the zine is called /LIT/ and the authors aren't anon it will seem like an empty gesture.

TAR really isn't a bad name anyway. The April Reader is, but TAR is fine, pretty cool even. I thought maybe if they get rid of 'the april reader' bit there could be a sort of running joke where they refer to themselves differently with each issue. One month it's Terribly Aggravated Rectums and another it's The Arson Review or something etc etc

>>2223794
>>2223794
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_(file_format)
Rather it be this.

>>2223794
>everyone associates 4chan with anonymity and I doubt most writers would contribute their best work if they can't get credit for it, yet if the zine is called /LIT/ and the authors aren't anon it will seem like an empty gesture.
See: the early policy on anonymous crediting
YUCK

>>2223795
>Tarbomb
A tarbomb is derogatory hacker slang used to refer to a tarball that does not follow the usual conventions, i.e. it contains many files that extract into the working directory.

Cool term for literature that doesn't adhere to anyform of convention.

>>2223795
>>2223799

That is actually perfect. Seriously. Perfect.

>now commonly used to collect many files into one larger file for distribution or archiving, while preserving file system information such as user and group permissions, dates, and directory structures.

Perfect, Nice one, anon.

I suggest starting again. Change the url to tarmagazine.com or something. Redesign the site.

Go through all the issues currently out. Pick the best ones. Republish them online. Each piece of work should have it's own page. Each author should have their own bio even if it's just a few words like John Anon is a whale and he blogs about whales at www.whaleblog.com.

Scrutinise work more. Don't publish shit. If something is almost good but not quite, see if you can work with the author to make it worth publishing.

Look at other online magazines. They all have an archive of work published that you can click through and read. Many don't have downloads, but if you want you could collect each issue into a pdf/mobi/epub, but that would be more work and it's not really necessary.

>>2223803
Made a new logo with file name in mind.
.TAR

It was meh. I suck at this.

>>2223810
>Authorbios
No.

>>2223799
What have that. It's called Avant-garde.

>>2223814
Of course but this would be within the confines of the TAR Magazine

>>2223813

Yes. Author bios help writers out a lot. Not only does it show off their style/personality a little more, but it also gives the chance to link to any personal blogs that they run. Tar should make them mandatory. If an author doesn't submit a bio, Tar should write a short bio for them, which is what many online magazines do.

>>2223795
>>2223799
>>2223803

I think the .tar idea is unnecessarily obscure and inaccessible. Sure, with the benefit of your own personal hindsight and a wikipedia definition it may seem a fitting name but any newcomers its just going to seem forced and (For want of a better word) 'nerdy'.

I think keeping it simple and straight is the best way. E.G:

C.O.L - Collected online literature
O.L.R - Online literary review
T.M.J - The monthly journal
M.O.L.C - Monthly Online Literature Collective

etc etc

You get the point, I've obviously bashed those out without much thought, but I think a plain and simple display of what the publication does/represents has more integrity and wider appeal.

>>2223824
Author#1 Autistic neckbeard with no books realeased
Author#2 Autistic Neckberad with No Books Released
Author#3 AuTIStic NecKBeARD WitH NO BOokS rEleaseD

>>2222902
>Bitching about the name.

Really guys?
The New Yorker is stupid, it hardly features new york writers.
Maybe they should call it THE AMERICAN.

oh boy are we discussing dumb changes to TAR again? why does this happen every release?

>>2223812

Sticking with the .tar idea. I think it's awesome.

This is something I knocked up quickly. Something like this would be pretty cool I think.

Maybe the definition would be better placed on the 'about' page rather than on the home page though. Maybe keep the home page more like this >>2223623

I'd name it
Copypasta literary review

So why isn't TAR on Duotrope? It would not only serve to get more writers and hopefully up the quality (especially with the poetry), but it would help keep track of how many people actually have work accepted in this.

>>2223832
Also it is opensource and purposely created for free and easy way to spread information online.

Fits perfectly with /lit/ and anonymous

Having said that, I like the idea of having the acronym mean something new each month. It would add to the excitement of the new releases. As described by >>2223794

Also, my poems got in. Wooo!

>>2223832

Removed some of the more technical aspects of the definition.

Think something along these lines would be awesome.

www.tarmagazine.com

>>2223841

forgot pic

I like the idea of having the acronym mean something new each month. It would add to the excitement of the new releases. As described by >>2223794

Also, my poems got in. Wooo!

Is there anyone here who is good with web design that would be willing to help tar redisign itself? I imagine it wouldn't be too hard if the site was designed very simply like it's been described in other posts.

>>2223839
>>2223832
Send pressrelease to wired. They editors get a geekorgasm and publish two spreads on this shit.

>linux
>informations need to be free
>Anonymous movement
>implying implications

>>2223847
Why dont you take a standard free blog template and redesignate it is easy.

I made my musicblog over a weekend and it looks quite nice.

Would link but anonymous being anonymous. Aint going to happen.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/TAR-MAGAZINE/62635515145
http://www.tar-mag.com/

Wow it actually exists already.
The Tar name got...
TARNISHED

>>2223855

hahaha bummer. Well, it was a nice idea while it lasted.

>>2223855
>>2223855
>>2223855
>>2223855
>>2223855
>>2223855
Ahaha oh god. Well, just because it exists doesn't mean we can't eventually overtake and overshadow it.The suggestions about .TAR people were throwing around earlier were great, it might be worth a shot

>>2223860

Maybe if the title was .tar it would be okay? Like, the period and the lower case letters totally distinguish it from the 'other tar'...right?

The fuck is with this .tar bull shit.

You're a group of 3/4 guys running away with an idea and getting carried away. Naming a creative publication after an obscure file extension? COOL DUDES.

Shit is teenage as fuck, stick with straightforward simplicity.

Jesus. Look at this thread. No one even gives a shit about the contents of the reader, just the design and the name and other bullshit. Who cares? I can't believe how stupid you people are.

It's fine. It doesn't need a snappy look. It doesn't need a new name. It doesn't need any of your stupid fucking ideas. It just needs decent content. So do that, or at least talk about the content.

Shouldn't tar have an ISSN number? I could make the request.

There is a body
The body has a mouth
The mouth is full of fire and shriek
But there is no flame or sound
And the body has feet
The feet fulfill a movement and a stride
But I’m not going anywhere and no one is passing me by
And the body has a heart
The heart beats my fury and love
But there is contempt in my walk and hate in my talk
The body belongs to this earth
And the earth will take in
There is only one place that is sound
That place is underground
No one can touch, see or smell underground
A silence remains at all times, at all bounds
The silence is the only way to exist
There is just one body in my underground
And the underground is the body of all
And all exists to somebody
That somebody will utter a sound
We aren’t underground anymore
The body begins again
With mouth, feet and heart
And lets go with all of it’s might
A very powerful fart.

>>2223836
Duotrope is not accepting more magazines to their database at this time.

>>2223869
>.tar
>obscure

wtf are you on about?

Will since no one's actually posting anything related to the actual content...here's something you guys who are writing in present tense seriously need to read:

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/present-tense-novel.aspx

Stop fucking writing in present tense. MOST good books are in past tense. If you're writing in present tense you probably like chuck palahniuk or something.

>>2223909

Your post proves my point.

bump for CONTENT critique

>>2223951
It's shit.
Whatever you wrote might have been the less covered shit, but it's still shit.

Unless you're Rory, in which case yours was the worst shit.

shit.

>>2223911
A writer would be a fool to limit himself so severely.

>>2223957
Seriously, fuck Rory.

>>2223962

If /lit/ agrees on somthing today it should be this and that tar needs to get someone on board who can properly evaluate poetry.

>>2223957
>>2223962
the poem ruled, i don't get u guys

>>2223973
In fact, I'm pretty convinced it's the best thing in the issue

>>2223973
>>2223980
Sup Rory.

just read the issue, definitely subpar. the first two stories - the Andrew Mendelson and the Damean Greaves - were probably the highlight for me. although neither was superlative, they had a lot of potential - i think that the problem in the case of both stories was that the writers didn't have technique that held up beneath the weight of the things they wanted to convey, and maybe haven't defined what it is that they want to say well enough in their own minds. but i think both writers have the capacity to get there.

most of the other stories were p bad. "I Must Be Dreaming" had moments that seemed good but seems limited to a style and a group of images that are pretty shallow, in a way? they're cheap. the technique, the style, the centrality of image, and the images used are the kinds of things that we frequently use as shorthands for 'meaningfulness' if that makes sense. but i think, again, there's potential there.

for the people getting angry over Rory, i think Thomas Beaver is the one to really get pissed about - Rory's poem isn't good for obvious reasons but it has moments when the language used has some kind of power. Thomas Beaver represents to me everything bad about /lit/'s writing - incredibly pretentious, overly heavy, 'deep', form varied for the sake of not using a traditional form - author could be good but only by substantially abandoning his technique imo.

well just my 2 cents

>>2223985
Nice, helpful review.

>>2223985
>>2223985

I defiantly believe Rory should get the prize of shame. The main difference is that Thomas beaver's piece is more like a grandiloquent drivel whereas Rory's piece is just a highfalutin wall of brittle dry shit.

>>2223911
Lol fuck off with that link. Present tense can be fine.

Is that guy who was going to read these stories as he was going to working goin to comment on them?

>>2224003

Defiantly? ...are you up against someone who believes otherwise?

>>2223911
Stupid fucking post. Stupid fucking link. I bet you dislike first person too.

Anyway, the issue sucked. First story was meh. Second story was meh. Repeat. Poetry was actually interesting, because it sucked so hardcore. Did TAR reject anyone this time?

>>2224007

Well kind of yes, but I still ment to say definitely.

OK. I don't know if anyone cares, BUT a poem of mine was published last month and it was honestly pretty shitty. This month I submitted a poem that I consider to actually be decent, and I was snubbed. Here it is... tell me if it sucks:


Can ever life without death be?
In physics widely, yes, it seems;
A star’s life ends, but new life starts
As caged bird atoms are set free.

Yet intimate biology,
Which governs breathing, bones, and dreams,
Unstable proves as moving parts,
For every “me” ceases to be.

Ay, the rub! Therein it lies:
Each “he” holds dear his view of “me,”
Which may unlike to your “me” be.
Perspective makes reality.
Are “you” your breath, your steps, your eyes?
What once you thought, what now you see?
Or are you one who feels like me—
Finite, everlastingly:

One mode of four forces, of matter and energy,
At the hands of almighty Eventually.
...again, I apologize if no one cares and I'm just being annoying, but people talk endlessly about how bad TAR poetry is and specifically how the editors may not be choosing very wisely, so this may interest some.

>>2224045

They were right to reject that. It isn't good. The imagery is very poor, the ideas so common so as not to be worth mentioning, and the language is terrible.

You should write more and read more and complain less.

>>2224045
gravity isn't a force, weak and electromagnetic are arguably the same. the wording is comic "can ever life without death be", and the images are standard internet science fan stock.

it's not good at all.

>>2224048
fair enough... though this really makes me wonder how the poem that *I* thought was bad made it into the November issue
>>2224049
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_forces

>>2224051
...and that's why you shouldn't use wikipedia, anon.

>>2224057
wikipedia has been found to be more accurate than the most trusted print source on earth (encyclopedia britannica) in a university study that I don't care to go find for you, so that's why I use it.
are u saying this article is wrong or just being an ass?

>>2224051
i'm aware you got it from wikipedia, where else would you have? "forces" as such are a deprecated concept.

>>2224045
>>2224045

>Ay, the rub! Therein it lies

This sounds very familiar, Shakespeare?

As for the poem I believe it to be generic. Rhyming "be" and "me" with "-ly" is kind of shit tier also the rhyming is monotone and sporadic. the structure is also bad and as for the theme it is overused. It just seems like a childish poem with a childish philosophical endeavor with added highschool physics. Also imagery is not graspable.

Yet, I must admit that despite it being very bad and so on, it is indeed better then some poems that were published. I would much prefer reading childish stuff then pretentious defecate which was published.

>>2223287
This is my poem that was not published. For the sake of my sanity, I just have to believe it is better then a lot of the poetry that was published instead. Comments welcome.

>>2224064
yes it's an allusion to the famous "to be or not to be" speech from hamlet.
and don't front on my rhyme scheme. dividing the poem into four quatrains, the first lines of the first two quatrains rhyme, then the second, etc. and this remains true for the last two quatrains. then there's a rhyming couplet.

>>2224059
less errors per page than an encyclopedia != accurate

physics is probably the least well-maintained area of wikipedia, or at least the only one I know enough to comment about, presumably because everyone who cares about physics is busy. trying to summarize shit for laymen in physics kinda defeats the purpose in the first place by distorting the information enough to be understandable. but I'm getting sidetracked and the point is that in principle gravity isn't a force, forces themselves are a deprecated concept, and that implying that there are four fundamental interactions is a pretty naive interpretation of current physics.

>>2224079
Haha ok god dammit... my poem was doomed from the start. I was working under false premises (but that doesn't excuse the rest of it being shitty, of course). Thank you for the information.

Fuck you and your poem. On to disscussing the issue. I liked some of the stories. First two were pretty good. Next few weren't. The last few were pretty good. Not sure which is my favorite. Liked te first one alright. And the Russian one.

>>2224088
no need to be a dick.
then again this is 4chan, so, uh, fuck you too buddy.

What is this issue's best story and best poem? Why?

>>2224097
Best poem is Woolf, by far. This is because it actually says something, uses words well, and is interesting. Thought was put into it and it shows. The same can't be said for the rest, really.

>>2224071

I suppose you do have some structure but It's still bad. Parts/starts, seems/dreams or lies and eyes are separated by a huge barrage of "me" "be" and "-ly" not just as end rhymes but even as internal rhymes which fills the mind with repetitive fuck. It's hard to even notice something else rhymes by merely reading through it casualy.

>>2224108

ment to link to:

>>2224077

>>2224110
gotcha. thanks for the feedback.
I was genuinely unaware that using simple, monosyllabic words to rhyme is considered amateurish.

>>2224102
It really isn't that hard to shine in a heap of shit. It's decent but it's not the best poem TAR has published.

>>2224113

>using the same monosyllabic words throughout the whole poem to rhyme is considered amateurish.

fixed

There's nothing wrong with using simple, monosyllabic words to rhyme as such.

>>2224124
What do you think the best poem TAR has published is? I think Woolf would hold up even better among better poems. It did not shake me to my core, but I enjoyed it and thought it was a quality piece.

Rory here.

I posted the poem on a thread here on /lit/ not too far back. Every single anon who criticised the poem said they loved it for its heaviness and such. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't have sent it into The April Reader.

I agree it's extremely amateur and requires an immense amount of work; truth be told I only did it as an exercise on heaviness and imagery.
Being my first submission I never expected to find it included in the issue.
There are far better works which deserved my place in the reader.
Looking at it now I share your opinion on how bad it is, but I wouldn't of sent it in if it weren't for the criticism I received on /lit/.

I understand tastes may differ, but from a critical view it is shit.

Sorry to those I've robbed a much deserved position from.

Hey, um, what's Woolf about?

I have my ideas but I'm really shaky about it...

>>2224131

No idea. It sounds pretty but I can't figure it out.

>>2224130
It's okay. I robbed people too. I sent in two poems and they published the one I spent twenty minutes on. The other one is actually good and has interesting rhymes and flow that the one that got published lacks. Oh well. Truth is poetry is pretty tough to look at and say how good it is when it's mediocre. Now this issue has just awful stuff. Including my poem. But I think there are some solid stories in the issue that might be getting overlooked because of how much the poetry sucked ass. I liked the older issues where the poetry was short and very much having the heart of 4chan in them.

>>2224130

Dude, don't apologise. There's nothing to be sorry for.

>>2224130

In all honesty it isn't your fault, April reader should never have published it, but maybe there was in fact no better
poem.

Finding out that /lit/ actually endorsed that poem is really bugging me, I never would have thought that /lit/ would
jump at such a strenuous language, most of them have their fingers ready on the keyboard to write the word
pretentious when something like that gets posted, I wonder what happend to /lit/ on that day.

>>2224130

I didn't think it was THAT bad man. Don't let this turn you off from writing. Use it as fuel to get to something better. Keep writing.

>>2224144
I believe there is.

However let me say this, I don't write like a thesaurus on purpose. If anything I adore and aspire to poetry that is able to work with simplicity and elegance.
As I said, it was a mere exercise on imagery and such for some novel I may hope to write sometime in the future.

The inclusion of Pan was due to my reading of Arthur Machen's novel "The Great God Pan" which I enjoyed immensely.
It wasn't some douchey attempt at becoming the teenage pseudo-intellectual.
Once again my apologies.

I would love it if other anons could criticise it and offer their ideas on what should be changed or re-worded.

>>2224147
From what was gathered, praise was given after "re-readings" of the poem.
It was liked for its heaviness and meanings layered throughout the poem.
(Contrasts of a dying culture/era and the emergence of a new one)

Needless to say I've heavily edited the poem since November.

>>2223591
It is true... I didn't just make it up for no reason.

>>2224176
>>2224176
Yo. What did you like in this issue?

>>2222902
Praise or awards shouldn't be given out at all.
It will just change the discussions focus from the actual content and the entirety of the publication to 'Did the right text get the award?'

>>2224344
At least that would be more discussion than what we have done now.

i feel like a phony for only reading tar when I'm published

>>2224438
>TAR
>read by professional authors
thus begins the decline of western civilization

>>2224438
I have never read the full publication, but the closest I got to reading them all was when I was published. Don't feel bad, man.

>>2224468
the existence of more phonies don't make my phoniness any more bearable.

>>2224496
Until the whole word becomes phony and then forgets what phoniness even is. Oh wait that already happened.

author of the untitled poem here. It's my first attempt at poetry, and as such, I was pretty surprised to see it published.

I invite you critics to consume my phallus and die.

>>2224502
until the only thing left are Metaphonies

>>2224508
I guess that was the theme of poetry this time. Shlock squirted out by absolute beginners in a half hour.

I just masturbated ferociously to a video with a woman called Nicole Ray strapping a young lad between her legs in all manner of positions but alas I did not truly cum until I read all the butthurt in this thread.

This is the definiton of anal gaping.

Anyway, TAR really (really, really) needs someone who can select the poetry. The poetry section is in shambles. I don't want to be excessively harsh, but I don't see how some of these poems could be accepted. Anyone whose read any small amount of poetry could see that almost all of them were tasteless and juvenile.

>>2224537
they're looking for an editor, sign up bitch

>>2224537
What makes you think the rest of the the submissions weren't worse?

Bad as these poems are, they are the best of what was submitted. Stop bitching and submit better.

>>2224544
Somebody do this, the magazine isn't nearly as bad as it was but it could be much better

>>2224564
The issues are only as good as the content. Another editor won't change shit. Better submissions are the answer, you stupid faggots.

>>2224557
First, there is no quota to meet on poetry submissions. If there weren't any better submissions, I would have been perfectly happy to see only Woolf published. Or, no poetry at all published.

Second, two people in this thread have already posted poems that were vastly better then what was accepted.

I would sign on as an editor but
- I don't want to pay 10$ a month for the prize
- They said they were looking for someone to advertise
- I want to be able to submit my own poetry

>>2224582
Fuck you, they are ASKING for an editor and they have more facts than us. Obviously there is a need

>>2224589
Fuck yourself. They could have 50 more editors and it wouldn't increase the quality of stuff being submitted.

>>2224590
>two people in this thread have already posted poems that were vastly better then what was accepted

I see two poems, sure, but I fail to see the "better than what was accepted" part.

I think that if the quality is to be improved the deadline should be dropped. In other words, no monthly issues. Only /lit/ submits to the zine so far, so I imagine it's slim pickings. At least getting rid of the deadline - or perhaps, not so extreme, lengthening the deadline, making it a quarterly - would increase the choices available for submissions.

It goes without saying that the zine needs to be advertised elsewhere. I think it's also pretty obvious that all traces of 4chan on the site need to be dropped for this to be successful.

Also, get rid of the prize money. Maybe try and invest it back into the site somehow instead.

>>2224815
This.

Get TAR out there. Invest in publicity and a new website.

>>2224815
So seriously, why is there such a big demand to get rid of money for this project? Do you not like receiving prizes? Is there any downside to having awards other than the fact that you might not receive it? I don't understand your thinking here

>>2224898
Well, I could be wrong, but I think the prize money was meant to boost the quality of TAR's submissions, and it isn't happening.

>>2224898
They won't give out any prizes anyway. Last month they gave it to a semigood story. This month they skipped it. Now I know this month sucked but someone deserved it.

Also, I hate how each TAR thread goes to a TAR workshop when it should be all about the content. Let's disscuss some of the stories. Anything anyone liked? What did you hate?

You can find some of my opinions above.

>>2224953
I think most people just skip the stories and then read the poems. (probably just to shit on the poetry - which did suck ass.)

>>2224953
You yourself aren't talking about the content except some vague hint to something you previously posted.

Which story deserved to win the literary prize, in your estimation?

>>2224953
You know, I don't like that attitude about these threads. I think discussing the fate of the zine is more relevant than trying to edit pieces that should have been fucking edited before they were published. Asking for criticism after being published is ass-backwards and retarded. Nothing stops them from posting their stories or poems here before submitting them. If they didn't want a critique before why would they want it now? I'm not going to put forth the effort just to massage someone's ego and make them feel nice for getting published by a zine that publishes almost exclusively shit. No one should be trying to get published so that people will edit their stories. Completed works should be submitted, not unedited trash jotted down by beginners. If they don't respect the zine's readers enough to submit something of quality, why should the readers give them the courtesy of a pat on the back or invest their time in critiquing something the author isn't likely to ever touch again?

No, these threads should focus on the zine in all ways - the site, the name, the editors, the readership, the submissions: everything.

>>2224961
there are a lot of critiques which don't even touch the stories, true

that's just lazy reading

>>2224971
the problem i have is with the kind of criticism that happens, people get really nitpicky and obsessive and in-fighty about details. there seems to be this weird belief that if we change this one little thing suddenly TAR will be awesome and popular and we'll all be famous. it's bizarre, and this kind of infighting is the kind of thing that just does not lead to good things

>>2224972
yeah, and i'm not even sure why, the stories are almost always better than the poetry. guess it's cause the poems are shorter? idk

>>2224971
despite being abrasive, this is a good post with lots of reason in it

the writers for tar don't seem to edit their own works at all. they seem to just write them on a whim and click submit

Here, critique:

A worried preach.
After 100 years, someone will remember even you or me.
Whatever breaks apart or fades away will come back to ache.
Timeless memories will expire like another Russian winter.
My heart breaths with a cold.
Some day I’ll get better.
When the lakes will dry and makers will seize to create.
Cave in under nausea while seeking or just looking.
No carousel is worth the headache.
We are just capsules, you and I.
Waiting to be swallowed whole instead of eaten.
To disintegrate in rye, Some will marches us to Eden.
Break even to be odd and not able to come back.
Too sentimental only to die philosophical.
Arguments in chambers who wish to keep silent.
But the thought, love, and children grow ever violent.
With a clam, the foul comfort of melancholy will pass.
No more to relieve or begin.

>>2224981
That's a really big issue, I think. I'm being won over by the people who have suggested that TAR do away with the monthly deadline and publish only when they have sufficient quality content to do so. I imagine the editors are turned off by this idea because TAR is (and may always be) on precarious footing; its only readership is /lit/ and if they don't put anything out for a while we are liable to forget about them and the project may die. But going on like this is little better than death. Risks have to be taken if we want to see results. People talk about widening the audience - we're in no position to do that yet. The quality is so terrible that any potential submitters would be put off immediately. Right now TAR is at the mercy of the /lit/erati: we are the submissions and the readership; without us, the zine will die. It may be in TAR's best interest to take control of itself and cut away from /lit/ in that fundamental way. Demand quality before publishing and when something finally gets put out, it'll be decent enough to show to others and garner a wider audience and a significantly larger submission pool.

Maybe we should try 12 months this current way, and if things haven't improved... Drastic measures ought to be taken.

>>2224979
All you're doing is criticizing the criticism; I don't see how that's more helpful. Through the amalgamation of all our bitching, improvements will be found and decisions made by those in charge of the zine.

>>2225002
It strains to rhyme. You can tell that some words were chosen just because they are a rhyme: "To disintegrate in rye, Some will marches us to Eden." is particularly bad about this.

I can see you at your computer going "I, bye, lie, die, sigh, guy, rye--rye! that's it!"

>>2225002
It's shit. Not a poem. All the imagery is just flailing and unrelated. It's also not been edited well, as evinced by "seized" instead of "ceased."

>>2225008

Rye is the russian/slavic word for the Garden of Eden.

>>2225010
you may be right, but I think the "seized" is intentional

>>2225011
so?

>>2225014
Perhaps. I don't really care, though. If he wants a critique he should make his own thread. Why the fuck is it ITT? Was it rejected or does he intend to submit it in the future? Either way, it needs its own thread if he wants our attention. I'm not ITT to critique random poems.

>>2225017

Instead of lazing around in heaven. Something keeps pulling us further to get to Eden even though we don't know what it's supposed to look like.

>>2224981
I ended up editing mine a lot. A few things got over looked but I still kept changing and resubmitting (4 times or so). I understand what you are saying but don't think some of us didn't put in effort.

>>2224971
Kind of an asshole aren't you. Oh well.

>>2225018

Critique threads don't garner the same amount of critique as these venom TAR threads do. Better chance of being spit on here then asking for it on your own.

>>2225021
It doesn't matter. It's still superobvious that you were writing around the rhymes, and you shouldn't do it.

>>2225028

So drop the point and go for something that doesn't rhyme with the following line just so it doesn't rhyme with it?

>>2225024
I am kind of an asshole, yeah. But if you don't want to be lumped in with the majority who put hardly any effort in, you should take responsibility for your work and ask here for opinions on your specific submission(s). Letting people know that you worked hard on something and that you appreciate any time they may put into helping you is certainly going to be a more affective way to garner criticism than taking the backseat and bitching when a critique isn't handed to you. Surely you understand our position on the matter, and surely there is no reason you cannot let us know you're interested and worth helping.

Kind of a faggot, aren't you?

>>2225042
>effective*

>>2225033
The poem sucks. Your "point" isn't worth salvaging. Get over it.

>>2225042
Kind of butt hurt aren't you.

I really rather not focus just on my work when other people have done stuff as well. In the end you are an idiot. Talking about the zine and all that could be done is just stupid. It's Prole's zine not /lit/'s. and I already got critiqued enough so I really don't give a shit. But yea you come off a a butthurt assholez

>>2225063
Prole (and the other editors you have failed to mention) have made it clear time and again that they read and appreciate the suggestions everyone makes for the zine. If you have nothing to add, that's fine. But to say no one else should voice their opinions is ignorant and will get us nowhere. I care about TAR and would like to see it prosper. Submitting is important, but being an active part of the community is equally important. It's too bad you can't see that.

>>2225082
Lol. I see it. The community just sucks. And yes other people edit it. Stop crying. Read some of the suggestions throughout this thread. Any of them remotely good? The only decent thing would be to remove the comments sections on the website. Anyway, I enjoyed reading this issue. Not as much as two issues back. Poetry was meh. Wolf one was nice. An you sir are butt hurt and stupid. Goodnight.

"A Storm Surrounds Us," is the worst piece of shit I've read this year. Demean Graves, fuck you man. Get a more interesting life and find something worth writing about.

>>2225170
Agreed.

This has been said hundreds of times before (in this very thread even!) but I really think we couldn't possibly emphasize this enough.

This shit sucks.

The poetry in particular is horrific.

>>2225187

much like you're post??

I'll throw some words in on points brought up here generally.

I actually like that it's once a month because it is distinct from other literary magazines.

The quality is pretty shitty. I don't think anybody is really denying this. This doesn't mean any of you should be so angry about it though. The fact that it's basically a weird "best-of-lit this month" thing is sort of cool. It's a snapshot of a bunch of us who don't read enough and who don't write enough but still spout off on an online message board and occasionally gather together and skim the creamiest shit off the shit barrel.

I'm not a poet and won't pretend to be a great judge of poetry in a general way. I enjoy a few poets greatly and the rest do nothing for me. TAR's poetry is just on another level of blech. I'll echo somebody else here who said TAR lost its soul when it stopped posting /lit/-style poetry. I think it should return to that because humor is not at all an easy thing and we may as well cultivate and celebrate the unique style that exists here. "Lawnmower" is the single greatest thing to have existed on the internet and it should all TAR poetry should be held to its standards.

The prose. God, the prose. Besides really strange erotica, I don't think there's a prose style distinctly /lit/. TAR seems to support the idea of cementing juvenile melodrama and forced dialogue as the standard. Why? How qualified are these editors really? I don't have the time to commit to this project and I know I'm just another voice whining here, but honestly at this point it's time to reflect on what you've done and what hasn't worked.

As writers, we all need to reflect upon and remember some general rules of writing. "Show, don't tell" is tired and old and you've been hearing it all your life, but perhaps it's time to actually listen. This single rule can transform bad writing into good. You've got to have a pretty distinctive style to break this in a great way (think David Markson's late 70s stuff and on) and nothing in TAR does.

>>2225195
Good post. To answer your question, /lit/ has a style it is called !shits! It's an American Mexican slang drama style mixed with peanuts and coco butter. Tasty :D

>>2225230
this is the part where you stop posting, get banned, unplug your keyboard, disconnect your cable connection, kill yourself, cremate your ashes and let your dog starve in a fish tank

>>2225282
How can one kill themself and then cremate their own ashes?

>>2225289
good question, give it a try and report back

>>2225289
the automation of mechanical society

>>2225306
It didn't work fuck face.

>>2223985

I disagree strongly. I thought Elegy for an Emperor was one of the more interesting stories in this issue. The narrator is pretentious - that is why the style is pretentious and grandiloquent.

I thought there were problems with it, of course. The narrator is going insane, I understand that, but I think the transition from relative sanity to insanity happens too quickly. He's in the bar or whatever, then the taxi, and then insane. And the italicized bits make the main story a little hard to follow. The bit about Charles Baudelaire came across as a poorly disguised attempt to foist the writer's bleak view on modernity on us, as well, which I didn't appreciate.

But some of the prose was excellent - the last paragraph really struck me. It seemed like a prose poem at times.

As for the actual poetry - Woolfe was the only one that impressed me. I don't know about the roman numerals dividing the poem, though... I do not think they're necessary in a poem that fits on half a page.

>>2225451
What exactly do you disagree with strongly? That he didn't care for most of the stories?

>>2225482

I disagreed with what he thought of Elegy for an Emperor. I think that was pretty clear...

>>2225491
But I didn't see anything about that emperor story in his post. It was just in the dismissed pile. I thought that was pretty clear.

>>2225491
>>2225497
Nevermind. I guess I couldnt believe Thomas beaver was that guys name. Anyway. Crap story is crap with moments of not so crap.

>>2225497

He wrote

>for the people getting angry over Rory, i think Thomas Beaver is the one to really get pissed about - Rory's poem isn't good for obvious reasons but it has moments when the language used has some kind of power. Thomas Beaver represents to me everything bad about /lit/'s writing - incredibly pretentious, overly heavy, 'deep', form varied for the sake of not using a traditional form - author could be good but only by substantially abandoning his technique imo.

Thomas Beaver authored elegy for an emperor

I liked it, i thought the author showed promise. he did not. that is where the disagreement arises.

guys can someone explain Woolf to me every1 is saying its good so im probably missing something thx in advance

>>2225451

Moments of pretty prose do not redeem a poorly-conceived story

>>2225504
It's an allusion to Virginia Woolf's To The Lighthouse. It's not very good but people are presumably praising it in comparison to the utter dreck that was posted with it. Either that or /lit/ doesn't read poetry and has really shitty taste.

>>2225502

>author could be good but only by substantially abandoning his technique imo.

Seems like he thinks the author showed promise but he didn't like the story and didnt like the way it was presented. Which is essentially what you said. So....

>>2225512
The second one and a little of the first.
>>2225508
I liked that story alright. And I liked the first story with the little douche bag kid.

Elegy for an Emperor author here.

I confess first that I was drunk when I wrote this. So please excuse its clichés and its poor quality - i acknowledge that it is not a particularly well-written piece. I should not have submitted it. Fitzgerald said in This Side of Paradise that writers should not fall into the trap of "shocking the bourgeois," and I'm afraid that's exactly what I tried to do in this piece. Haha. So I do apologize.

That said, in my defense, I would like to point out that its pretentiousness arises from the fact that it is told from the perspective of a subjective, biased narrator. That is, the prose is meant to reflect his personality (haughty, disenfranchised, manic-depressive). I tried to imitate (with little success) what Bellow did in Herzog.

In short, I accept your criticisms, which are valid, and if I write again for TAR I will do a better job.

And to whomever wrote the one about Virginia Woolfe - good job! I thought it was very well-done.

Goodnight TAR. Good luck maybe someday there will be a good story for you to publish.

>>2224006
haha i said i'd read them on the train, but actually ended up having to read some presentation material for a meeting that day, but i just read them on the ride home. here's what i think. as usual, all of my scores are on a weighted scale pursuant to this issue only.

anyway on to the reviews!

Volunteer Opportunities - 7/10 - It had good ideas, but I didn't really believe your character. You have this tailor made asshole with the Ayn Rand objectivism, pink polo, business school, only in it for the money who has a sudden realization at the home? I don't think so. We've already seen how morally ambiguous this guy is willing to be and I just didn't buy that a little trip to the old folks home was really going to fuck up his world, nor is it clear what sort of realization he experiences at the end. I don't think it has to be right up in your face, but it's so sudden and strange that he freaks out, we need some more explanation. Is it his impotence to help these people, is the fragility of life, that all he is striving for really may mean nothing in the face of what these people are experiencing? Anyway, it's solid, but could be better. I felt a little taken out of it by the obvious douche bag queues, it was almost like you were telling me directly to loathe him.

>>2225579
A Storm Surrounds Us - 8/10 - Best piece of fiction in this issue. Like VO, I think this had a lot going for it. Unlike some of the other posters in this thread, I did like the narrator and really believed both of the boys. The character I think needs work is the mother, Sticky/Tyler hates her, but she is shown too sympathetically I think. Maybe it's that all kids hate their parents at that age (well I didn't), but it doesn't seem extreme enough for him to just pick up and go. I wanted her to be more grudging or manic to give even more maturity to the main character's decision to go back. It is raw, but overall I felt drawn in to the story more so than any of the others. I kept thinking that Sticky was going to find the drive thru girl in a porn video.

Buried in Water - 5.5/10 - I couldn't get into this story at all and felt like it had almost no subtext. Some stuff happened and then it ended. Why do I care about any of that? Why is this story set in Beirut? So many whys, but ultimately it seems like the author just rushed through and recorded these events without caring much himself.

Moira - 4/10 - I appreciate some genre fiction but this was just a mediocre second act without any set up or any conclusion. I thought that the writing was more than raw, it was amateurish. Keep practicing though and try expanding more - was this piece part of a larger whole? Did you have a plan for what you wanted to happen in this story before you started writing it?

>>2225581
Altar Boy - 2/10 - Nicely written blog bro.

I Must Be Dreaming - 4/10 - Is this supposed to be an allegory? I don't get it and didn't really care to.

Elegy for an Emperor - 4/10 - Cared even less, but points for ok prose I guess.

Overall, this issue was not at the level of quality that we saw in November and I understand the editor's decision not to award the prize. I have to agree with some of the other posters that I think the prize should be done away with and that money reinvested into making TAR more professional, drawing a larger readership, and more submissions. Hopefully, more people will submit this month. I am writing something that I wanted to send in for this issue, but ended up not editing it enough so decided to hold off so I look forward to somebody crushing mine!

bumpformers... more than meets the eye

I was in the thread where the Pseudophedrine guy posted that poem and was offered a some legit criticism (along with a lot of people telling him it was straight-up shit) and it looks like he took none of it

I can't see anything he changed

so why'd he post it asking for a "critique"

(it's a rhetorical question)

>>2225658
It's a funny poem because you can interpret it as being about the narrator being a ridiculously narcissistic "artistic" personality or you can take at face value that the author really is that emotionally immature and pretentious. If the intention is the former, it's actually a pretty well-written piece, but if it's the latter, well, I guess thats how everybody is interpreting

Also going by what people have said in this thread, if that dude posted a thread on /lit/ then he actually took more time revising it than anyone else in TAR this month, which is pretty sad, really.

I think TAR is getting a bad rap. What are they supposed to do, publish the one good story that they got all month? Have the poetry blank, because no good poetry was sent in?

That's not a magazine, that's a leaflet.

>>2225688

I agree with this. What tar must do is to advertise for more submissions, quite frankly /lit/ alone doesn't have the quality (or the willpower) to fill tar with good literature. Tar should simply invest efforts in advertising and spreading, a good site design would help with that too.

As for poetry I would openly challenge TAR's expertise on this matter. Either that or there simply isn't enough good poems in which case, the number of published poems should be reduced, Maybe one piece of miscellaneous (screenplays, automatic writing ect...) writing could be published instead. It would be a bit of a monthly surprise and would be fun critiquing. Or else just add another story.

>>2225710
You can see buy the poems that didn't get in (posed above) that the issue isn't that TAR is rejecting good poetry. I'm starting to think all the people whining about TAR's ability to judge poetry are by butthurt losers who got rejected. The truth is that this is the best of what was submitted.

>>2225718
Poetry is notoriously hard to judge, essentially an sentence with a bunch of thesaurus words jumbled together in a mulch could probably pass as "good" for some people. I'm not suggesting the editors have not mad some bad decisions, but I'm really not sure anybody on lit is really better qualified to judge this kind of submission

I mean seriously, what makes a good poem? The object is totally ambiguous

>>2225710
Remember when that happened with the last zine? They went to gaia and /lit/ (rightly) went bananas.

>>2225746
Hold it, that is a misconception I am going to put a stop to right now.

the ZWG did not go to gaia, a troll posing as us did. We might have been poorly organized at the time, but we were smart enough to avoid that. I can't prove to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was not the case, obviously, but this is what actually happened.

>>2225772
hi prole, did you fill the other editor role yet?

>>2225785
Alas, We have not yet filled the vacancy. My impression is few people seem interested in dealing with the editor fee, but this is to be expected. I'm not sure if it is a good thing or a bad one, personally... we often get many editor applicants with no sense of commitment to the publication if we advertise conventionally. I kind of feel that the editor fee weeds out "novelty" editors and makes applicants more tied to TAR and less likely to forget it.

Anyways, we would be glad to hear from at least somebody interested in working with use. There have been plenty of complaints about our selection of poetry, it would be great to have someone willing to specialize in this section for us. As always, our email is theaprilreader@gmail.com

>>2225801

You need to network. At the moment you are at the mercy of /lit/. You are in a very poor position.

I would scrap the site and all the work. I would attach myself to social networking sites and announce a new zine to be launched within a few months and a call for submissions.

You can also use social media to gain editors. Approach writers, see what happens.

Also, you as editors should stay anonymous. This is only due to the fact that i think you probably have no experience editing or being published.

>>2225801
>>2225801
I'd might be interested.
My english skills are limited and I have no real expertize in literature.

What would one be expected to do?

>>2225819

>Approach writers, see what happens.

Building on this, why don't you just solicit pieces from well known authors? Start again, redesign the site so it looks good, scrap all old work, get on social media and announce the launch of your new zine, and start approaching writers that are well known in the online literary world. Maybe the first issue could be a flash fiction edition? Maybe a theme? Approach lots of authors and ask for short pieces. If you can publish some well known names your zine will take off at a gret speed.

>>2225819
>>2225834
so essentially your 'solution' is to just toss TAR out the window. and then once the next iteration's flaws become apparent in 6 months you'll advocate the same thing I'm sure?

WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE:
1. New webpage design
2. New format design
3. Lash out on social media, other communities than /lit/
4. Still monthly issue
5. Keep going.

Just improve over time.

>>2225834

this is a good idea, but you would have to think about the effort involved of finding a well-known author that will write for some low tier magazine for free. To be honest you'll probably have to brace yourself that you might only find one or two out of a myriad.

also with advertising on Facebook you'll probably increase the work load exponentially with only little result as in better quality, think about it ATM tar is already short editors and they are generally taking in above-par submissions because they are currently advertising to the cliental, once you get facebook kids sending in their stories be prepared for tar's inbox to be shitsormed.

>>2225839

No. If they start again and they end up publishing nothing but shit then I would advocate nothing but giving up.

>>2225854

I don't think it's a stretch at all. When I say 'well-known' I really mean well known in the small presses. These people survive on small zines, they love to help out when they can.

Also, I'm getting the feeling you're suggesting Tar's inbox will be flooded with 14 year old girls if they have a Facebook page. This isn't true. You can control who gets your attention very easily. Besides, I ws mainly talking about twitter and google plus where it's very easy to find the circles of writers and communicate with them.

Also, for reference, look at this: http://www.spectermagazine.com/about

A new publication that is flourishing. It has a fantastic layout, a great name, and quality work. And how did they do this?

>Specter was 99.99% built & promoted via social media.

>>2225872
yeah but social media sucks, fuck social media. there's no reason our thing has to be like their thing. let it be our thing.

>>2225880
like if you want that so much, go over to fucking specter and join their fucking boat.

>>2225880

That sounds fine, but how else can the zine attract good writers?

>>2225880
>Social media sucks
#losernerd

@everyone
Check out this #bitch.

>>2225894
I'll say it loud... I'm a losernerd and I'm proud

>>2225894

don't post like this

>>2222902
Look.
This took me 20 minutes to and I would hesitate to show this even to my mother.
You could at least try to look semiprofessional.

I hesitate to read TAR because its so fucking ugly. Texts might be good. But I still think some 9-year old wrote it.

>>2226004
Point is. If you get published. Even by some miniscule indie e-zine. You would at least want it look like something that you would like to show your friends.

Thats why TAR will never get bigger than /lit/ community.

>>2226009
The same arguments can be said for the homepage.

Regarding how shit TAR is (in terms of image) I honestly think right now that putting your name on there will result in more harm to the writer than the positives of the feedback

>>2226011
What? Why?
>Boss! Boss! I think i've found it. The author of this generations great novel!!! I dont eve-
>What? Who is it? Tell me. Where did you find this guy? Tell me!!
>I found it on this e-zine called TAR...
>O-oh... TAR? Never mind then.

>>2226009
>You would at least want it look like something that you would like to show your friends.
Listen to this man.

>>2226084
Agreed. I link to all the places on the net where I've been published on my blog, but there's no way I'd link to TAR because it looks so terrible (plus the work in it is awful).

>>2226097
Faggot.

I submitted and got published in the past, but was too lazy to write anything for this issue. Still, I want to continue supporting TAR in the future.

Is there a lot of shit in there? Yes, of course. Some of you seem to expect The New Yorker level writing, but this is /lit/, get real. While criticism is appreciated and is the only thing that can make this zine a better one, some of you need to back the fuck up and appreciate the tremendous effort Prole and his gang are doing. Shit, last month they even gave out money out of their own pocket.

So keep it up TAR, some of us actually wait every month to see what you come up with!

>>2226004
a dumb question maybe, but did you just use photoshop for that lay out or what did you use?

>>2226193
Someone's mad his shit is getting criticised for being in a shit zine.

I'm totally not mad they rejected me... twice.

>>2226213
OpenOffice
Extract to PDF.

Shit is not hard.
There are essential rules to editing.
If you follow them most things will at least look halfdecent.

>>2226193
What was your story?

>>2226219
If you want something to look really good you need either Adobe InDesign or Quark Xpress

>>2225681
I enjoyed this story when I viewed it like you said. Probably the best written thing out of all the poetry, maybe even the whole issue.

>>2226227
That's not how you spell LaTEX,

>thinking shitty 2.0 magazine redesigns are going to make a significant difference on anything

it looks almost exactly the same

>>2226244
No. Just no.

Yeah Editing TAR must be stressful, because apparently the editors didn't have time to do their job right. It looks like a piece of shit. Could I do better? Yes. Do I want to? No.

>>2226278

Does your comment contribute anything? No. Should you insert an icicle into your urethra? Yes.

>>2226321
It's called feedback baby, their shit sucks, I'm telling them.

They can go reflect on that and make an effort to come up with something better. I have better things to do, like winning arguments on /pol/.

>>2226349

Nope. It's just vague vitriol towards people trying to accomplish something. Please, just stay in /pol/.

>>2226370
exactly, trying.

Maybe they should be trying something else.

Let's just admit it. TAR is doomed from the start because anybody who writes something good is going to submit it to a "real" zine. I mean look at the reactions of authors in this thread, claiming they spent 20 minutes working on their piece and just sent it off without revision.

I've read every issue, and I've never finished a piece and just been bowled over by how good it was. The best stuff, the stuff that gets praised in these threads, is "merely" well-written.

>>2226540
realistically yeah. no talented author even one who habitually posts on /lit/ would ever send something they thought was good to TAR. that's why it makes the most sense to keep it what it is - essentially an organ of /lit/ - instead of making a bunch of dumb changes.

>>2226540
>That feel when you don't know any other zines.

>>2226540
>The best stuff, the stuff that gets praised in these threads, is "merely" well-written.
It strikes me that the best stories in TAR are essentially good "workshop" stories. The type of stories that if I read them in a creative writing class, it would make me respect the author, but not good enough that they really stand on their own. Not the type of stuff I'd actually go out of my way to read. The only reason I do read TAR is that it's so closely tied into the identity of /lit/ and I wanna stay up to date.

also Nthing that the poetry is just terrible and maybe it shouldn't even be a part of TAR.

I don't know who to reply to, but ...

regardless of the quality of TAR, you would think more people who can write well would take advantage and get that $40-- it's more than any serious lit journal probably ever forks out to a writer -- which I kind of respect. Ideally, money would talk in these situations.

TAR, pay more of your writers more money, please. Invent an incentive scheme and thereby create a niche. lol

>>2226583
There's a couple problems with the prize. One of them is that it isn't even guaranteed to be given out each month. Obviously, this is kind of necessary, given the quality of submissions some months, but it also limits the power of the prize as an incentive since you're ultimately up to the whims of the editors. I'm sure some people think "a storm surrounds us" deserved the prize, not sure if I'm one of them.

Another problem is that 40 bucks isn't a lot of money when it isn't even contingent on being published or even being the best story in a given issue. So you can get in, have the best story that month, and still not get the prize. Kinda demoralizing. It also reflects poorly on the quality of the zine itself. "Here is our content, the best of which isn't worthy of a $40 prize."

The third and biggest problem is that while most online lit zines do not pay their authors at all, (or pay a token amount, less than $40) that's really not a big deal. What they offer is exposure and prestige. Publishing in elimae or storyglossia or one of those big-name zines pretty much guarantees that you'll get some followers on twitter or tumblr or blogspot or whatever, people who will check out anything else you publish in the future. I'd rather have that than $40, wouldn't you?

>>2226635
>Publishing in elimae or storyglossia or one of those big-name zines pretty much guarantees that you'll get some followers on twitter or tumblr or blogspot or whatever, people who will check out anything else you publish in the future. I'd rather have that than $40, wouldn't you?

this is why I've been saying we need to have author bios. at least a link to a " twitter or tumblr or blogspot or whatever" so readers will have a way to follow authors they like

>>2226643
WoUldnt think author bios is a very good idea. I think it'll add something unwanted to the zine that'll be difficult to get rid of. Like the comments boxes that get shit on by assholes.

>>2226540
Yea the inconsistent prize awarding is lame and probably defeats the purpose. Out of this issue I think "A storm surrounds us" is the best, but does it deserve the prize over "I must be dreaming"?

>>2226635
I think there have been some talented authors and worthwhile stories. Don't let the poetry in this issue overshadow some of TAR's old stories... Consider
"Aspire Mutual", "Nogales", "Jesus at the airport", "the bandits and the spider".

And let's be honest the porn stories have been entertaining as hell. I wish they'd just publish some erotica each issue. At least it would be interesting.

Archiving this thread?

>>2226739
Why?

>>2226720
Two of which were written by the guy who became editor. Are you him? If you are, you should write more stuff for TAR and quit editing that shit.

bump

>>2226995
Forced sage! Unreal.
I guess this thread is worse than the billions of Ayn Rand threads that populate page 0.

>>2226995
We're beyond 300 replies, sir. It will bump no more.

Editor here.
The one who made the shitty JPG example.
I'd be willing to make a standardformat for TAR just because I like the idea of /lit/ and anonymous.

I really dont care about the content. Hopefully the idea is to create a forum for new writers to express their ideas.

I'd hate it if TAR became an e-zine for im-almost-published-authors

Still... not just anything should be accepted.

The problem is really /lit/. Instead of encouraging people who publish their works here they hate it."It aint faulkner, it aint Joyce, it aint Orwell". Who would you ever dare to submit your work if you get shot down in a fucking ANONYMOUS imageboard.

Call me an idealist but there is a beauty with people in their initial stages of creativity.

Otherwise I wouldnt have given all this feedback.

>>2226643

Yep, agreed. Author bios so links can be given to personal blogs.

Archives too. Someone mentioned elimae (where I actually have a piece in the latest issue :D) and they have a wonderful archival system. Something similar to that would be great. Plus, elimae looks beautiful even though it's probably really easy to design (it's a very simple design).

>>2227132
If you post something on 4chan you have to swim trough shitty comments but you'll eventually get good ones.

>>2227142
But still every hurtfull comment feel like a splinter in your foot.

I still remember the first positive comment I got about one of my stories.

>If you would read a full story I'd read it.

That was it. It kept me going for months. Just to get another one. I appreciate constructive criticism but to be honest. Thats quite rare here.

Die in fire tar!

>>2227131
to be honest, the best stories in TAR are at least in the same neighborhood as storyglossia

i'd say one factor is that the average age for TAR authors is lower than for many other zines

>>2227517
How old we thinking here?

We need Tao Lin to submit.

>>2227545
my guess is the average age is 23-24, whereas other zines are more like 28-30

>>2226739
>>2226995
>>2227447
>>2227621
what are you, autistic?