/lit/ - Literature

One of these days I will be in the pastebin

is outlining for nerds

I hate it when I'm stuck on a story, and have no idea how to continue a conversation between two characters.

>>22264650
We're all awaiting for you anon. Go go go and finish that story!

A nun is to be a virgin for life without a worldly husband; she is the bride of Christ. Therefore, to sleep with a nun is to covet what’s His. A sin upon sin and utter flouting of his glory as our Lord.

>>22264757
I'm writing a story about Joan of Arc being reborn and in her nunnery garbs, takes up fire arms to blast away zombies and other uglies in a post-apocalyptic world.

>>22264767
Lmaoooo based nonetheless

>>22264717
Lesbian sex

How do I write about abusive relationships without alienating my audience?

>>22264994
Capture the nuance. Think about those moments in your life. How you felt abusing and being abused. Then use some cool words.

What sort of person would calmly and stoically accept they are going to be raised from birth for the sole purpose of being sacrificed to the gods?

Or rather, what sort of person would come to be from such an upbringing?

>>22265067
people can accept a lot of bullshit if they're raised on it, look how eager many of the kamikaze pilots were or the allahu snackbar crowd

>>22265082
The Kamikazis and Jihadis were defending their countries though. Evil countries, but still.

With that said, >>22265067, it's probably better if they're not told about the sacrifice until they are "ready"

Here are my erotica-but-not-really short stories

https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=6794553&page=submissions

My crime novel is coming along nicely. First draft will be ready by end of August.

>>22265114
So are human snackrifices. They're told they're divine, the gods power is real, this life is a trifle, theirs us an eternal reward, they shall bring the rain from the rain God's paradise to bless the lands with bounty, etc etc

Also primitive people, whether past (say, aztecs) or present (rampant human sacrifice voodoo worship in africa), genuinely see magic everywhere and believe when some guy in a tone wearing a mask jumps around that it's truely Enjyi the Forest Spirit and that the sacred rattle is glowing with power.
Consider the christcuck, most of these people believe in ghosts and believe they have experienced ghosts and hauntings first hand.

>But why? All of that is irrational?
Lack of education, nutrition, being deeply insular and thinking their world us the whole world, engaging in as little critical thinking as possible, and so on.
How hard was it to convince people yellow hair and blue eyes are superior? Exactly.

>>22265138
>story begins with a self-insertfag disclaimer
sensible chuckle.gif

>>22265180
t. Hylic

>>22265180
Wait, so you hate Nazis, primitive peoples, AND Christians? WTH even are you, man?

>>22265067
Someone with no self esteem.

How bad is it to write in third person omniscient? It's an old way and people constantly seethe about it. Should I just not care?

>>22265158
An entire draft in 2 months? Are you sure?

>>22265243
ty

>>22265067
>durr, write my story for me, anons
but idk, maybe a zealot, maybe a stoic, sounds like a neat conceit w/ which to explore this personality type, desu

>>22265349
Yes. It's still by far the most common way, and plenty of classics have used it without consequence; if your prose is good enough, it won't really matter.

>>22265426
But what is the best way to write?

>>22265426
I'll try with prose then. I'm just concerned with the ways modern fiction uses subtext and mystery in a way that cannot be present in an omniscient perspective. Feels like it takes away some freedom to be vague.
>>22265475
There really isn't a best way, there are ways that match the story and style. A lot of people don't like furst person for example, but it's amazing for horror.

>>22265343
>Wait, so you hate Nazis, primitive peoples, AND Christians? WTH even are you, man?
He's a reddit pseud

>>22265067
Brother not even Jesus Christ was stoic about being sacrificed for all humanity. Writing a character like that and to make him interesting won't be easy

>>22265492
Ah, I understand. However, perhaps you could still try writing in the 3rd person, only without the omniscience? It is up to you what information you do or do not choose to include on the page, after all.

Write in third person omniscient but have the "narrator" purposefully withhold information arbitrarily

>>22265475
Impossible to determine; the question itself is too nebulous for us even to decide what it is we are actually supposed to be talking about when we decide to call something 'best'. If one could be determined, it would have been by now, and everyone would have adapted their styles around it. You can't just metagame writing, in the end.

>>22265180
>Consider the christcuck, most of these people believe in ghosts and believe they have experienced ghosts and hauntings first hand.
Not in my experience as a Protestant. People either don't belive in ghosts or that they are so rare or difficult to approach that anyone who claims to see it is either weird or insane. But we tolerate people in church that we have seen it. I used to study paranormal stuff on /x/ long before I came here. Yet there's no experience I've had that ever felt truly supernatural. The fact the Holy Spirit is also called a ghost doesnt really count since God's always an exception.

>>22265557
>Yet there's no experience I've had that ever felt truly supernatural
I am not a superstitious person but I've had few things happen to me that are just such massive coincidences that I can't discount them as random.

>>22265722
They were random. Once you get past puberty you will realise the supernatural does not exist.

>>22265788
LMAO puberty is exactly the age where you become an atheist because it's edgy, once your metabolism settles down you return to a belief in God

How can I make my sentences less clunky?

>>22265542
You're right. What it needs is more drama.

>>22265820
People who talk about teenagers all the time and invent those ideas about "edgyness" seem to never leave puberty themselves and have no understanding of what happens to a person going through this period and later period around 20 years.

>>22265180
I don't know a lot about the Aztecs but I heard they had formalized rewards for the capturing of enemies, which would create a direct link between human sacrifice and martial prowess (which of course has other benefits). Framing the German people as a superior race that deserved to rule the world also had certain ulterior motivations.
There are things people will believe on their own (including ghosts IME), but there are also many things people believe because there's something in it for them. "People are stupid" is far too easy, there's more to it.

>>22265840
My language and prose are the exact same just a bit worse. I don't see an issue.

>>22265843
If you're writing for an audience, you have to put yourself in their heads. When someone reads the first sentence they are going to be wondering what the heck Mithrithnogg is. The next sentence should give some the reader some clarification. Sentence 3 should come after sentence 1.

Anyway, more to your point, the reason your sentences are clunky is because you qualify nearly every single noun with an adjective:

>barren mountains
>sunken valley
>vernal rain
>haggard face
>gentle wind
>mortal remains
>ardent spirit
>ungrateful leper
>melancholy beacon
>poetic ardor
>wicked world
>foolish servants
>shapeless mounds
>innumerable swarms
>laden locusts

And all this in one paragraph!

First lines of my story:
"Would you like to do something good for the world?"
The message on the screen said. Without thinking, the sixteen year old boy did the first "unusual" thing he had ever done. He clicked on "Yes".
A pdf file was automatically downloaded into his phone. Which was strange, because his phone shouldn't have had the net on right now. He hadn't paid the bills, after all.


WDYT?

>>22265869
Thank you anon. Should I keep rewriting the first draft then cut the adjectives after I'm done?

>>22265929
Sure. Whatever works for you. The process isn't really that important so long as you end up with the result that you want. By the way, to be clear, I'm not disparaging the use of adjectives in general, but rather a lack of contrast in your usage. Monotony--of any kind--usually puts the reader to sleep.

>>22265788
Hell of a coincidence my to-burn-in-hell brother in Christ.

>>22265843
Play around with word order and sentence structure. Decide whether you really need exactly one adjective per noun. Reconsider your words, both whether you need them and whether you picked the right ones. Use a conjunction every now and then. The different sentences should feel different with peaks and valleys and rapids so you don't lull the reader into sleep.
Your word choice adds some ambiguity that you might not want. What does the wind do with his remains? Does it clean them? Does it scatter them? Be precise. A thesaurus can be great for this.
How does his spirit perish? If it slowly fades away then "gravely" and "ardent" don't really feel right. If it holds out until the last and then shatters then your sentence needs a little bit of force to it, you want the reader to feel the moment when that happens.
He's ungrateful, but for what? The word kind of floats around without enough context to resolve it to a meaning.
Variety is the main thing. Your sentences shouldn't all come from the same mold. Make them sing, as this picture puts it. (Sentence length is not your problem but it's related.)

>>22265929
Figure out how to write nice sentences now and get into that habit during your rewrite. Or just play around while rewriting, try a bunch of different things and beat them into the same shape later.
You don't need to be a perfectionist about it since you'll get to edit later, but delaying this seems like it'll create more work in the long run.

>>22265889
>The message on the screen said, and without thinking
>A pdf file was automatically downloaded into his phone -- Which was strange
I'd change that.

I'd also use hasn't instead. It's not per se wrong, but it sounds off.
Otherwise, it sounds fine.

>>22265849
You're literally rebelling against your Heavenly Father. You'll grow out of that phase and swallow your haughty pride.

>>22265843
What other anon said, get to the fucking point.
You can use adjectives as a sneaky exclamation point to direct focus of the reader. Is the fact the mountains are barren very important? If not, cut it.

You don't need to cut all the adjectives, some add flavor - but get to the point. Tell a story, don't make the reader look for it.

>>22265990
I wasn't initiated into your religion, buddy. There are no heavenly father, even you should understand that if he was your religion would be a social institution barely related to a god. You have no idea of experiences that make men mature, you stopped being edgy, but hid away from them with a religion, never growing. You don't know what you're talking about so you have to project.

>>22266014
Atheism is so cringe.

>>22266030
(You)

This popped into my head while I was watching a movie earlier so I decided to write it down and add a little bit to it, tell me what you think.

When I was a young boy, around five years old, my father gave me a tin of boiled barley sugar lollies, I savoured them, making sure to only eat one a day, they were delicious. My father was an absent man so receiving anything from him was a blessing, despite never being around during the hours that I was awake he was always there in the form of the house that I lived in with my mother, the house embodied him so much that it may as well have been a part of him that was ripped off of his body for us to live in, I dared not do anything that he wouldn’t approve of while I was at home in fear that the walls would start telling me off, seriously, the front door was like his mouth and the inside of the house was like his brain. He chose the materials that the house was made of, he drew up the design for it, he paid for it all out of his own pocket and he even helped the contractors build part of it.

>>22265950
can you help me as well?
>>22264717

>>22266070
I'm much better at making words look nice than at figuring out what to write.
Usually if I have this problem I think deeply about what purpose the conversation even serves in the story and then let it rest for a bit. When I come back I might know how to continue, or I might start over and steer it better. Or I end it right there, or scrap it entirely.
Where does your story need to go? What might the reader be interested in? Those are problems to ponder.

>>22265364
Yeah I'm sure. I just came up with the ending. Let's just say that true love doesn't save the day.

>>22265843
Get rid of two out of three adjectives to start.

hey kk wing what are you writing next?

>>22266014
Your version of "maturity" is nihilism and sticking your pecker in a warm hole for twenty seconds.

>>22266189
I'm still working on my Webnovel. I honestly have no idea what the critics are asking for on RR. I think some of them just skimmed through it, found a few mistakes and just called it a day with their reviews.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/67568/a-knight-of-valora-serenity

>>22266251
Oh yeah definitely be careful listening to RR-readers. Feedback is feedback I guess but it doesn't get much worse than from RR.
What's your plan with it? Clean it up and release on Amazon? Or why are you still working on it? I don't mean this in a crab way but if it failed to take off, some extra polish but no further updates isn't going to make it hit trending. Or are you doing it for your sense of pride over the work?

What are some resources for writing 101?

Stuff like make the plot move through the characters actions, connect scenes with "but" and "therefore" instead of "and then", have the plot serve the characters instead of the other way around etc

>>22266335
There are a bunch of books and lecture series about how to write, there's some posted at the top of the thread and there's some that you can find with quick and easy research.

>>22266286
I just wanted beta readers from RR, and it was just for fun to see if I can write a fantasy story with nothing to do with Dragons/Elves/Dwarves etc. and I think I succeeded in that regard.

I now have a nice little setting to use if I ever want to come back and write another fantasy book.

I'll be cleaning it up, throw it out to some YA fantasy agents, get rejected, put it on Kindle Velle, and finally print 20 copies or so, keep one, and put the other 19 with a personalized message in all those "take a book, leave a book" boxes. It'll be funny if I got a sale from it.

Thoughts on my style? Would you read more?

>>22266395
reads like a teen movie voice over into

>>22266395
I wish I was Mr. Gerschwitz. A jew sleeping with freshmen girls.

They should have all supported Mr. Gerschwitz because they're all indoctrinated by the slogan, "age is just a number". Then when a concern parent comes at Mr. Gerschwitz, the kids rally behind the teacher and tell the parents they're regressive, bigots that don't understand LOVE IS LOVE!

Now that would get the noggins of those in the publishing industry to start joggin.

>>22266408
that was your takeaway from it?

>>22266415
Nothing, it needs a lot of polish. It's certainly interesting enough to continue, but also 90% of the paragraphs are completely pointless. There wasn't any reason to talk about Middle School and holding hands, or even the Pedo shit. Which you oddly even allude to with your phrase "Speaking of which..."

I can literally read the 4th paragraph about blake and the last paragraph and still manage to understand the entire point of the story.

>>22266395
There's apparently an unwritten rule of pacing that the story should turn every 4-6 pages (i.e 1000 to 1500 words). Your story has a turn almost every other paragraph. What this means is that you aren't adequately drawing out all the possible drama from the elements you are introducing. You should spend at least 1000 words on Blake Ferguson before introducing Brayleigh and Rain, and then another 1000 words on them, before killing Blake. Those 1000 words should be used to bring the reader into the reality of these characters, the sensory experience of them and their inner lives, especially their hopes and fears. Since this is written in first person, you have to do it through the protagonist's eyes, which adds a further layer of complexity since it simultaneously reveals the reality of the protagonist.

Stylistically, it reads just as it should: a crude teenage confessional. However, there's a tendency to sometimes slip into an inappropriately formal voice ("That's not a comment on the morality...", "Or rather, Blake was not so discerning").

Dubs and I write tonite. Nada and I drink

>>22266386
As for why I'm continuing to edit, probably pride and I do think there's something there. I liked writing my MC a lot.

How do I write a nigger LGBT character like it’s human?

>>22266469
Don’t you turn a page every page?

>>22266395
Juvenile, total banality in observation, narrative voice simplistic to the point where I assume stupidity on their part.
People should not share their writing until they’ve written 100 stories and read 500 books. Thank you

“I will kill that bear,” the woman said.
“The bear that ate your son and daughter after they had incestuous sex in the woods,” the man asked.
“Yes, the bear that ate my son and daughter after they had incestuous sex in the woods. I will kill that bear to get revenge for it killing my son and daughter.” The woman picked up a rifle off her kitchen table. She examined it. “I will use this old hunting rifle to kill the bear that ate my son and daughter.”
“After they had incestuous sex,” the man said.
“Please, stop focusing on the fact that my children were degenerates. I still loved them. I will avenge their deaths.”
Then she shot the man. He fell out of the chair and clutched his hands over his chest, where he’d been shot. “Why did you shoot me,” he screamed.
“Because you are a nigger. Also, you kept reminding me that my children were degenerates. But mostly for being a nigger.” She shot him again, this time in the head. He died. She left her house and proceeded into the woods. She would find that bear who ate her son and daughter after they engaged in incestuous sex and she would kill it.

>>22266501
I do think F Gardner was body snatched before he started making YouTube videos. There’s a dissonance to his character when you take a long view of it that’s hard to reconcile if he’s just your standard Chris Chan style hyperautist

>>22266582
Best thing I've read here in a while. Actually made me laugh (which means I'm a retard, but still).

>>22266582
xD so random

>there is a poster here who thinks throwing away $50 a week is economically viable
How bad are your characters with money?

>>22266659
IT’S NOT A PYRAMID SCHEME! IT’S AN INVERSE FUNNEL!!

>>22266659
My MC is a miser who spends the minimal expenses possible and enjoys no luxuries. All the money he has, he invests. He doesn't even really care if he loses it, because he has no attachment to it except as a tool.

He's not right in the head, tbf.

>>22266678
Akbar? Sounds like the richest man in Babylon

How would you trick someone into lifting their portcullis? I assume there’s no way to force one up from the outside, otherwise it would be kind of useless.

>>22266709
Convince them they are actually outside the castle and they have to lift it to get back in.

>>22266395
The voice and tone are off. Shitting next to a corpse promises a wacky and over the top story, but your narrator is very dull. Little build up or reaction.

>>22266735
nta but holy shit that is genius. You published anything worth reading, sexy boy?

What authors can you tell are an influence on my style?

>>22266501
>Call Of United Airlines
Any news on why it was removed from Amazon?
Or where it can be bought/downloaded now?
>>22266584
Probably the possession by Ambrose

>>22266951
This is really bad.

>>22266951
>most thickest
Are you ESL?

What about a romantic fantasy series where the first two books introduce all the characters and set up the drama and hot guys. Then the final book in the series is actually three separate books, each in a split timeline where a different love interest winning the affections of the female protagonist. Like a choose-your-ending. Some plot lines would only be explained/resolved in a single ending, encouraging readers to get all three to fully understand the story.
Stupid or brilliant?

>>22267052
That's called a galge

>>22267052
There's shit ton of AI's to help you and you still can't make a VN?

>>22266397
That's more or less what I was going for.

>>22266408
Good to see my work appeals to the 4chan demographic. Unfortunately that usually means it'll bomb with all the others.

>>22266433
Can't you read the first and last chapter of most novels and get the gist of it? The point is how you get there.

>>22266469
I usually write short stories, so I'm used to packing in as much possible. I was thinking of it as the first chapter of a novel but I guess I'll have to adjust my form.

>However, there's a tendency to sometimes slip into an inappropriately formal voice
That's interesting. I wrote it, read it back and noticed the same thing, but I was wondering if I was just being picky so I posted it as-is to see if someone else would feel the same way.

>>22266578
Now this is what I come to /lit/ for.

>>22266951
It's like you read Pynchon but didn't have the guts to make your prose *completely* unreadable.

>>22267200
So you're writing a parody of teen movies? Where are you going with the story?

>>22267200
I think the principle is still true in a short story, it's just a short story is about fewer things and has fewer turns. But the amount of time necessary to adequately draw out the drama doesn't really change.

This all applies to genre fiction btw. Literary fiction by definition plays with form so these "rules" don't really apply.

>>22266951
Lovecraft perhaps?

>>22267217
To be honest, I wasn't sure exactly where I was going with it. The basic starting point was that Blake was dating Rain, then she accused him of rape to their friend group and got everyone to ostracize him. Blake killed himself because he thought he was about to get arrested and go to prison for decades. Then she figures there are more sympathy points in a dead boyfriend and plays the grieving girlfriend. The school splits between the faction who think Blake was a rapist and faction who thinks he was a saint, with Rain playing both sides. The protagonist tries to stay out of it all but ends up coming up with a clever plan to expose Rain just to keep the peace and quiet, and get justice for Blake. In the end the revelation that Rain was the cause of everything embarrasses so many people that it's hushed up, and Rain eventually goes off to college with a clear slate. Justice isn't served, but at least things quieten down for the rest of high school.

But that's a broad overview without any more characters or plot details than what you see already.

>>22267270
This is unpublishable as genre fiction.

>>22265067
See Central America

I've never really gotten actual critique on my writing. How's this? Wrote it in one go for fun.

>>22267291
Oh, for sure no publishing house would ever touch it. I would probably ruin my reputation just by sending it to an agent.

If I ever went forward with it (and to be honest I probably won't - like I said, I'm a short story writer and I don't have a good track record finishing novels) a self-publish thing, or even just a blog serial. I usually write sci-fi and fantasy so I started it more because I was looking to branch out than because I thought it had good commercial potential.

700 words today and a lot of time wasted shitposting. I'm going to push to 1000 tomorrow.

>>22267310
Not great. Just the first sentence has two errors (or misguided attempts at stylization):
>"This will fail, Lia." Vasiliu says through gritted teeth.

A lot of the sentences without grammatical errors still don't sit right.
>His hands, clad in silken ivory, clench tight, though those are nothing compared to the corset constricting his waist.
That's one sub-clause too many for a start, and what do you even mean by silken ivory? Also, and this is more of a personal gripe, I think 'clad' is an overused word by writers struggling to find a more interesting synonym for 'wearing'.
>His hands clench tight, though that's nothing compared to the corset constricting his waist

6/10, not terrible but needs work.

>>22267356
>what do you even mean by silken ivory
The gloves are white silk. Should that first sentence have been,
>This will fail, Lia," says Vasiliu through gritted teeth.
?

>>22266659
I spend $50 a week on a grocery trip.

>>22267394
>The gloves are white silk.
Then why not say:
>ivory silk
?
The way you phrase it makes it sound like very soft ivory - to me at least, although maybe I'm too literal. And yes, what I wrote was a corrected version of your first sentence.

I'm not sure if you're deliberately making stylistic choices to try and make your prose more interesting, or just making mistakes, but either way it doesn't work for me.

>>22267430

>>22267442
I know, I know: criticism sucks. But it wouldn't be doing you any favors not to tell you.

But hey, I'm only one guy. Maybe someone else will have a different opinion.

>>22267310
It's bad.
You are using words incorrectly.
>through grit teeth
Unless his teeth are made of sand you meant 'clenched'
>festooned sense of peace
You are just saying random words at this point.


Way too many descriptions of facial expressions and hand motions, to the point it feels like a pantomime.

>>22267472
>festooned sense of peace
Well, I actually was attempting some word play (?) here. The character has been dressed up in ribbons, which he isn't used to. Therefore his sense of peace has been "festooned". Are you sure about "grit teeth" also? That's a pretty common turn of phrase.

>>22267469
I was trying to be funny there. I meant when it I said I've never had anyone give me (harsh) critique. Normally people just tell me "it's great!" and nothing else.

>>22267512
>I meant when it I said
*I meant it when I said.

>>22267512
>Normally people just tell me "it's great!" and nothing else.
People tend to be overly generous. Then again, I've only read four paragraphs or your work. Maybe the rest is better.

>The character has been dressed up in ribbons, which he isn't used to. Therefore his sense of peace has been "festooned".
It's another case of: I can sort of see what you were going for but it didn't quite work.

>Are you sure about "grit teeth" also?
'Gritted' teeth is a common turn of phrase, not 'grit'

>>22266069
I like long impractical sentences,but the last one needs to be 2 or 3.

>>22267258

Definietly Lovecraft

>>22267207

I like Pynchon's a lot works but wouldn't really say he's an "influence" on my prose

How do I stop getting offended at obvious garbage and then immediately coping by imagining how I would do a better story?

>>22267888
Why are you consuming garbage?

>>22267905
I'm not, I passively see things and get angry. Like I looked at the news of the not snow white and started imagining my own take on the public domain snow white story. I'm mad at myself because it's a poisoned foundation to start a story from and it won't work out

>>22267564
Alright, anon...

Disclaimer: I don't aspire to be a writer and write whenever I feel like it. My writing is bad and you should critic me harsh because I deserve nothing else

>The lady Fenrir sat in the carriage. She was blowing wind towards her face with her favorite fan, not because the air was humid but out of habit.
With her green jewel like eyes she looked out of the window waiting for who she considered to be her escort, who was finishing his business far away from the castle Uum.
As she waited, blowing air towards her face she began to hunger.
"When is this ancient fool taking to a local restaurant as he promised?"
She eyed the soldiers stationed around the city that had fallen prey to the empire she served. Her eyes fixing on a young member of the battalion.
"It is not food i hunger for"
She opened the door and waved the young man towards her.

>>22267908
This is envy of them. Not envy of their talent, but envy of the confidence required to finish and put out whatever they feel like even if it's trash, especially if it's trash. You can get rid of this envy by actually finishing something instead of getting caught on the fear of failure.

>>22268187
The old emperor, dressed in the poorest of robes, slowly made his way to the carriage, noticing a soilders missing from his post.
"That witch can't wait for even an hour" he thought to himself
He knocked on the door our of courtesy and then opend the carriage, being greeted by a sight that no longer could disturbed for he has seen it countless of times.
A old woman with web like hair, skeletal in statur, black pits where eyes should be, slowly sucking the liquid life out of her victim who is crumbling up like a paper until even that is being devourd by hsr fangs.
As youth returned to the witch she stared at the emperor whim she served with jewel green eyes. Smiling with a face that brims of vigor and youth
"I am hungry my dear. Didn't you promised me the local cousine?"

>>22268207
How... How did you know?

>>22267888
Getting offended is gay and doesn't make you special. If you were a real nigga you'd actually go through with your version with blackjack and hookers only to receive a smidgen of the attention the keyboard bashing retard gets, with only single digit people recognizing your superior work.

>>22268214
Okay now I have writer's block

I want to write a locked room murder so bad, but I can't think of a cool gimmick to it. I was thinking something like a Maid being murdered and suspended by ropes inside a tower. Guess I should read some Ellery to get some ideas or something.

how do you keep track of book releases? Is there something that will tell you whats being published

>>22268287
damn did you just watch that one mystery episode of UY where all of ataru's friends get killed
now that was kino
or the potato monster one

>>22268250
Is that really what it is though? I don't think it's envy so much as indignation for being so unscrupulous. Suppose the garbage was the best effort of some ESL or college sophomore who had never written a story before--would there be any anger there, even if they were successful? I think it's the inauthenticity that enrages not impotent envy.

>>22268250
I can really only speak for myself, but since it sounds like it resonated with you, it's because I have the same problem, especially in regard to fear of failure and undue pride. What I had to do to get over it was recognize that finishing and putting out trash is the only way to get better rather than seething at the people that are actually finishing their own trash. It's possible they'll never improve, it's possible they don't want to improve, it's possible it's their first real work too. Maybe you really can do way better than them. None of that matters, they don't matter. The only thing you should focus on is yourself and killing your perfectionism and the fear of finding you're not as good as you think you are.

>>22268322
You can be jealous and indignant.

>>22268307
That episode was pretty good, I think it was an Anime original episode (Those are all the good ones), as you might already know, it is based on Agatha Christie's "And Then There Were None". Sadly that book (and chapter) is a Whodunit and not a "how did it happen?" So I can't really draw any inspiration from it, who could have guessed it takes some imagination to come up with clever contraptions or methods for killing.

>>22268335
>you're not as good as you think you are.
Actually, let me change this to "not as smart as you think you are", because if you're on this board, there's a good chance that you're smarter than average, or at least more introspective since most people don't want to write or read books. In the past, if I saw that people "dumber" than me were finishing their work, it would make me jealous/indignant that so many people liked that trash, but at the same time I was stuck in a rut because I was afraid that my magnum opus that everyone should love because I'm oh so intelligent would be ignored because people "wouldn't get it". So I did nothing for years, and I think this is a trap a lot of aspiring literary fiction writers here fall into with all the anger directed at genre fiction.

does anyone here read books?

>>22268349
>Those are all the good ones
now wait just a bloody minute
over 80% of the episodes are good
only 20% are great though and I wouldn't doubt most oshii's original episodes fall into that category
also yeah I've read ten little niggers. not bad.
lots of agatha's stuff is pretty good to be desu

>>22268374
Huhhh? I don't even know what reading or writing even be yo

>JRPG hero party is adventuring to slay the demon lord
>The hero takes on a guy who can't fight well but has a magic inventory
>For no apparent reason, the hero has complete confidence he'll end up the most important member of the team
>Proceeds to not actually use ANY of the consumable items, hording them all
>He doesn't even use them against the demon lord
>Straight up ingores 99x Hyper Potions, 99x Ethers etc.
>The hero dies to kill the demon lord and save the world

>Story starts with the MC finishing off the demon lord, stopping its regeneration and so on
>He's the only one who made it out of the fight without major injuries
>Realizes he is the only one that can save the other party members
>Starts burning through all the hoarded items (The hero can't tell him not to anymore)
>Adventure adventure adventure saving one after another
>Because of demon/hero magic at the climax, MC can't actually kill the demon he needs to kill
>But the hero can
>And he can summon the hero from the past because time god fuckery
>He and the young hero from the start of the adventure kill the demon and save the last of their friends

>Before the time summoning ends, MC tells the hero about the demon lord and that he's going to need all the help he can get
>He finally realizes why the hero hoarded all the items the whole time

Obviously it's a tropey fantasy story, not some literary masterpiece, but I think for the first time ever, I have figured out a story involving time travel i actually think works well. There's a lot of nuance to getting the magic to work right and be satisfying in execution without overshadowing the characters, but I think this would fundamentally work really well for fantasy readers.

Then again, it means the entire novel takes place in a deterministic time loop...

>>22268473
>Obviously it's a tropey fantasy story, not some literary masterpiece,
Tropey fantasy rips off Lord of the Rings. You're ripping off Dragon Quest. You're like at the very back of the human centipede.

>>22264634
I watched Blood of Zeus and liked the idea of Zeus convincing two of the giants to turn against their side

I was thinking of writing something like that where an elven and human alliance are fighting against a monstrous race few in number, but individually wielding immense power. The idea is that the leader of the monstrous race kind of browbeats and pushes around two (a husband and wife duo) of his tribe, and the human and elven mages have scryers that see this.

The essence is they convince those two to turn on their tribe in return for ceding lands for them to live in, but I was wondering if there was any way to write the elves and humans not simply reneging and attacking them after the other monsters of their tribe are dead.

I was considering making the race able to absorb the power from their own dead by eating their corpses or taking in their life force as they die, so as the two betrayers kill their tribemates and take their power, meaning their own position isn't weakened by their betrayal.

Not sure if that would be interesting.

>>22266968
https://files.catbox.moe/aw9gz2.pdf

I'm writing a military fantasy work, and I'm wondering about how to name characters during the narration. It's told in a third-person perspective from a normal soldier.
"Blah blah blah," said General John
or
"Blah blah blah," John said.
If John is a General, then does it make sense to have his name always follow "General" even during narration? Because a fair amount of characters are addressed by rank during dialogue. Just wondering which one sounds better.

>>22268552
It sounds okay to me. But you could involve some politics of humans and elves having a hard decision process on whether to attack the remaining giants or just leave them be. Maybe make giants likable and some head figures of people big conscience havers.

>>22266386
>I'll be cleaning it up, throw it out to some YA fantasy agents, get rejected
Of course, you've already published it online AND for kindle. No one is going to touch it now.

>>22269235
I was thinking the human and elf kings considered attacking the last two monsters as though they are stronger, they are also injured. Something like:
>My King, shall we attack the last two?
>They're stronger now. They absorbed the others. And we lost a lot of men too.
>Indeed. But they're also wounded. We'll never get a chance like this to attack them.

However when one of the monsters lifts a part of their dead brethren's corpse off a human and elf trapped underneath, they decide against it

I'm not sure if the Elf King or the Human King should be the one more reluctant to attack at first. I feel like a strong argument could be made for either as I imagine humans would have a negative trait of being more willing to attack, but elves would have a negative trait of arrogance and may severely underestimate their enemies.

I could also see it as human ambition that they think they can later call upon these two new allies for future battles

I was also thinking the motivation for the husband-wife monster duo was to have children, which their leader disallowed as he wanted to conquer the realms of men and elves and did not tolerate any idea of stopping the fighting, even to rear more young.

>>22269216
I think that when referring to characters in position of power, it suits them more to just use their rank '...said the General' than to refer to them by name.

Now, unrelated. Here's a series of poems I've been working on. Thoughts?

Do you guys submit to &amp?

I don't know whats wrong with me I used to be able to write a lot but now days I'm not feeling it anymore, I'll stare at the screen and I'll even put it off all day then before I know it its bed time and I'm too tired to write

would anyone miss you if you went missing for a month?

I was reading the 1 star reviews for Pillars of the Earth and I had this thought: is success best measured by the degree to which you accomplish what you set out to do? Many of these 1 star reviews complain about the simple prose, the repetitive plot, the egregious sex and violence, the modernist views imposed on the historical setting etc. but on his website, Follett claims that his first aim in writing is to be "transparent", i.e clear, to the extent that no one ever has to read a sentence twice. Simple prose is actually his aim. Likewise he writes primarily to entertain and to appeal to a mass audience. Hence all the other elements.

I think it's relevant to these threads somewhat because people will often post their work without saying anything about what they are prioritizing, what their intentions and goals are with respect to the work. Then anons will come and lambaste the work. But often it's not because the work failed in itself but because anon doesn't like what the author was aiming at to begin with.

>>22269819
yes, you influence more people than you know but can't see it by the very act of being yourself

>>22269827
I haven't had any human contact with another person who wasn't a service worker for 2 years. I hope things will change once I finish my book.

>>22269819
The company would suffer, but I haven't talked to any irl or online friends for half a year.

>>22269838
>I hope things will change once I finish my book.
nothing changes when you finish your book

>>22269820
>But often it's not because the work failed in itself but because anon doesn't like what the author was aiming at to begin with.
"I-it's bad on purpose!"
Most samples here fail because they're 1) full of elementary school level grammar and punctuation mistakes, and 2) not even the author knows what he's trying to say, he just strings some unnecessarily convoluted sentences together, which don't show any driving purpose, continuity, or originality.

>>22269820
thats why I stopped posting my writings here, you will get some guy saying its horrible and when you ask them to remake it better they will garble it up completely like they were looking to make the worst possible thing
honestly, lit is one of the worst places to get feedback. I would try to complete your work then get it beta read or go to workshops were you can read others works and ask for advice (although that is more difficult)

>>22269859
>when you ask them to remake it better
Why would you make such moronic requests? Most people here are amateurs like you and even if they could write something better, how would you be able to tell? If you had the faculties to recognize the issues in your writing and why another variation works better, you wouldn't have done it badly in the first place.

>>22269889
>you wouldn't have done it badly in the first place.
You wouldn't have shared it, I think. P != NP. Just because you can detect a thing doesn't mean you can fix it.

>>22269889
>people who review your stuff are omnipotent and 100% know better than you in everything
>hold up why are you expecting them to fix anything they may not know how to write or anything
pick one, stick to it

>>22269262
What do you mean? I'm confused. If I posted on kindle no agent will touch it?

>>22269820
You succeed at something. You never just "succeed" without a referent.
If he succeeds at what he set out to do then he succeeds at what he set out to do. But I might still dislike it.

>>22269899
Whom'd've are you quoting?

>>22269906
What is confusing, retard? Publishers usually want only works that have not been published anywhere before. They pay for exclusive rights, not some self-pubber's leftovers

>>22269924
I never knew that.

>>22269956
Especially online stuff. Kindle I can understand, but if posted on RR it's done and unpublishable? I swore I've seen other series on there get published

>>22264634
so what are some good books to help define the line between self defense and violence in context to a majority of people killing off a minority. I.E. Whites killing indigenous people.

>>22269960
They're all self-published. The authors of top fictions can just afford to buy competent covers and editors, and have buyers in tens of thousands straight off the bat.

I'm listening to some lectures about writing and all of them contain the idea that you should generate value to the reader. I like to think that value, for me, is when I read something beautiful that touches my heart ou something clever that changes my perspective on anything. How to generate value to the reader?

>>22270074
Look into your soul, anon, you have to look deep into your soul and find answers there.

>>22269819
Take your depressive whining to >>>/lit/wwoym/

>>22269924
If the self-pubbed book is popular enough, the tradpubbers won't care if it's already been self-pubbed.
"The Martian" by Andy Weir is an example of this.

>>22270078
that's why I'm taking mushrooms next week. I hope it brings light to some of my questions

>>22264994
Fuck the audience

>>22269819
Maybe.

>>22270109
Can't fuck them all. Some will remain unraped, still too naive and sensitive.

>>22270104
Retard. Damaging your brain by chemically inducing a seizure to satisfy your junkie addiction won't add any value to your writing.
>dooooood, we should all like, love the planet, dude!
Kys hippie. True value comes from actual life experiences, learned perspectives to share with others, or just a good moral lesson that may or may not be obvious to people.
>dooooood haha we should all love eachother!
Induced by drugs, is like buying a cheeseburger at McD and telling everyone you went to a world-renowned restaurant for a meal. You did - but it's fastfood, you fucking idiot.

>>22269656
I do.

>>22270008
No, there are a few companies that publish RR fiction. It’s a clever business model and they’ve got a hungry market by the throat since most tradpub outlets are steered by women who don’t know or care to know what young men read

How do you structure a scene?

>>22270157
You're stupid and have no idea on how shrooms work, taken properly they are a great medicine

>>22270157
Post your writing so we can determine whether your advice is worth listening to

>>22270195
>Post your writing
Not finished yet. I'll definitely ask around once it's ready if someone is interested though.
>>22270189
Cope, you're a junkie.

>>22270182
Start by asking more vague questions.

>>22270230
it is not vague. I asked how to structure a scene. Maybe it would be more helpful to ask how to outline a scene. This general is useless for writing advice

>>22270264
Setting, where is this scene taking place
Characters, who is involved in this scene
Conflict, what is the problem
Resolution, what did said characters do
How said scene pushes the overall story

Your question isn't really writing advice, it's more like you want someone to do everything for you, as if you can open a textbook and find where the answers are instead of trying to figure out the answer yourself

>>22270270
You sound like you are angry at life. I feel that way too.

>>22270264
The other anon said it's vague cause it depends a lot on what kind of scene you want to write. The strcute will differ between a character introduction and a cathartic moment. When I don't know what to do I tend to
>introduce the scenario
>stablish the characters there
>create a conflict
From there on you can do it however you like it, from solving the conflict to let it open or a cliffhanger. There's no rules tho.
What exactly id the purpose of the scene? Be more precise in what you want to know

>>22270277
That's why I'm writing a thing with a lot of angry characters.

>>22270278
>>22270270
I have a stepsheet (a chronology of events). I want to make sure I get this correct before writing it all out and it making no sense

>>22270277
>Want help
>Give help
>Get angry and standoffish when given help
This is why nobody likes to help. What are you going to do when you finish your manuscript and people shit all over it?

>>22270287
Anon, it's just a scene. Stop making it be a science.

Just write it, and see if it fucking sucks.

>>22270287
I'll save you some time.

You won't get it correct. Your story will change

>>22270290
i am not going to give you what you want troll

>>22270287
So you already have an outline (or a bnch of happenings) and want to know how to put them into paper effectively?

>>22270292
>>22270295
writing is not a science

>craft is not a science

>>22270299
I have an excel sheet and how other people structured their outlines

>>22270287
Just feed your events into chatgpt and ask it that it structure a scene based on those events, after a couple of times you'll get the hang of it

I need to plan it to a paragraph level. Like Motivational Reaction units.

Stop trolling in this general and just help people

>>22270182
There is plenty of low-level writing advice in the OP how-to.
>>22270264
And you're useless for not reading the fscking OP.

>>22270228
post WIP, salty egomaniac
or have you literally never completed any writing project in your life?

>>22270323
I have read that book and it wasn't that good. These generals are just people acting pretentious

>>22270327
>post WIP
Nah, I'm good.
I can post my 1.5 finished short stories if you really want, though. The other one is incomplete because I'm terribly busy with my current novel.

For motivation reaction units, could I use all five senses consistently as a motivation?

>>22270337
Follow show, don't tell if in doubt. If you make characters react to absolutely everything, you'll turn your writing into a slog.

Skip things that aren't important to the characters.

>>22270336
>1.5 whole short stories
you are in no position to shit on other writers, greenhorn
keep your pseud opinions to yourself

>>22270370
Alright junkoid. Keep shooting up that H and telling yourself you can quit anytime.

Structure? Conflict? Character introduction? Catharsis? Hahaha! This shit was so boring, just like my life. Now I just write.

>>22270404
Unironically following a fixed structure makes you at best a mediocre writer, at worst an awful one.

Best writers bend or break the rules, and know how to.

>>22269610
I like them :D

>>22270376
nta
i don't do drugs just caffeine
>pathetic attempt at deflection
many such cases

>>22270433
>i don't do drugs just caffeine
Caffeine is simply for men who want to burn brighter instead of longer.

https://pastes.io/se3uwsnace

Little flash fiction. More of an exercise in voice than anything. Although I did have an idea I wished to play with. Will probably cannabalise it for another work

>>22270407
post your work

>>22270476
Could use em dashes or breaking up of sentences with a period. Other than that, I thought it was surprisingly readable compared to most bits posted here.

>>22270485
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/70556/beasts-of-the-woods

Hope you like it.

>>22270407
Gene Wolfe was one of the most innovative and original fantasy writers and he would extensively plan his novels

>>22270513
>extensively plan
I didn't mean plan - I meant a fixed structure. ie. beaten, same old path as everyone takes, because that's how everyone does it.

Not every story has to do something new, but not every single one has to follow the same scheme and structure as the rest.

>>22270467
I didn't know coffee was for that

>>22270490
Thanks for giving it a look, wrote it on a phone and there is definitely some weird construction that I couldn’t really fix.
If I were to rewrite it and not recycle it for something else I would definitely rework the ending.

>>22270467
huh? coffee reduces risk of chronic diseases and may extend one's life.
what the hell are you on about.

>>22270605
Not your heart, buddy. Not in the amounts I consooom.

>>22270287
Assuming you are writing genre fiction (a stepsheet won't help with literary fiction unless in a specialized form) there are an abundance of methods. In general a scene concerns some kind of significant change in the story (a "turn" as an anon put it) which is presented to the reader in real time. It's structure should be set up such that all the relevant information necessary to believe and feel the emotional impact of the turn is given to the reader. This information should unfold in a series of misdirections.

E.g A scene in which a man loses his job might (trivially) have the moment in which he is fired as the turn. This scene must take place in real time, so we naturally want to begin as close as possible to the turn while leaving ourselves enough room to establish its necessary elements. Let's say we begin at the day of the firing with the main character driving to work. To make the reader believe the scene we have to a) describe the main character with enough specificity and detail to create the illusion of his existence b) likewise describe the setting c) establish why the turn will matter, emotionally, to the protagonist (and therefore, by extension, to the reader) d) establish the turn as a possibility.

Let us say that the protagonist is a young lawyer at a high-powered law firm. This is a very common type of protagonist so the reader will need considerable specificity to believe the illusion. Let us say, then, that the lawyer is Kazakhstani, but grew up as a poor immigrant's son in New York City. His father put him through Columbia law school as a taxi driver, but they are often at odds over religion: his father is a materialist atheist, whereas our lawyer is a devout Orthodox Christian. Is that enough detail to create the illusion? Perhaps, if the rendering is specific enough. But let us also add that our lawyer suffers from severe insomnia, sometimes staying awake for 72 hour stretches.

Now we need to convince the reader of the setting. Again, the setting of a high-powered NY law firm is common, so a great deal of specificity will be required to make the reader believe. Probably some research is in order here. A cursory search reveals that some high-powered firms will offer legal concierge services that assist with personal legal matters, everything from estate planning to traffic tickets. Let us say that our protagonist has used these services in the past (perhaps a fender-bender from falling asleep at the wheel of his company-issued BMW). A description of the car, a description of the office, maybe his assistant, sufficiently precise, will complete the illusion.

1/2

>>22270719
From the details thus far, we may already have an idea of why the turn will matter. The job is prestigious. The pay is good. The perks are excellent. We may add something about personal ambitions or a desire for his father's approval or how hard he worked at school or how much he fears and disdains poverty (perhaps for its association with his father's materialism). All this is why the turn must not happen. At the same time, we must plant the possibility of its happening. Perhaps the insomnia is becoming unmanageable. Perhaps his personal religious beliefs are interfering with his work. Perhaps he has a disgruntled superior who feels threatened by the new wunderkind. Perhaps there is a big presentation that very day in which something will go horribly wrong.

Because we cannot give the reader all this information at once, and because we want to keep him in suspense, we reveal it piecemeal, allowing the reader to continuously update the story he has constructed in his head. This, as with magic, requires misdirection. We may begin, for example, with our protagonist behind the wheel of a car on the Queensboro bridge. We reveal it is a taxicab, something with which our protagonist is intimately familiar. The reader is led to believe the protagonist is a cab driver. We now reveal he is wearing an expensive Armani suit and a similarly priced sportswatch. We reveal he is a lawyer, working for a high-powered law firm. The cab is on loan from his father and his company issued BMW is in the shop because of an accident. We do not elaborate on the accident. We take this opportunity to describe the relationship between father and son, perhaps through a flashback or anecdote. This passes the time till we arrive at the office. We describe the office. We describe the assistant. The assistant might help our lawyer put on some makeup to hide the bags beneath his eyes (we have not yet mentioned the insomnia). We describe the daily routine (supported by our research). We make some mention of the disgruntled superior. We enter the presentation (more research), demonstrate our protagonist's competence, misdirect the reader into thinking all is well (which, at this point, the reader should care about), then unveil the disaster. Some oversight in the contract, a typo, the wrong case number, whatever it is, it's ruinous. At this point we may misdirect the reader again into accusing the superior of sabotage, and then finally reveal the insomnia and the details of the accident (perhaps through the mouth of the superior). Our protagonist is told to gather his things by end of day. End of scene.

I know no one will read any of this, but I wanted to get it down anyway.

>>22270719
>a stepsheet won't help with literary fiction unless in a specialized form
Why not?

>>22270662
If you drink one or at most two cups of black coffee in the morning you'll be fine

I got a question about my prologue. Is it a good idea to have the prologue be set after the story, and have it heavily imply the events to come? Or is it a cheap trick? I think it sets the mood.

>>22270799
Do what you want, but keep in mind spoiling half the story ahead of time might just break your thing.

>>22270799
That's what Nabokov does in Lolita.

>>22270499
want this in the pastebin?

>>22270799
It can work, but as >>22270806 says, you're going to need to plan the story around it. Most stories are based around the gradual unveiling of plot points and various twists, the "what". Stories that open with the ending are more based on "how". Your reader is looking at a disastrous battlefield with bodies strewn everywhere, then you transport them to a field of flowers a week before. The purpose of your story then becomes building suspense until that big event and showing how things managed to escalate into such a precarious situation.

>>22270896
No, why?

I've reached a point where I cannot bring myself to write. Rejection after rejection, some of which were for short stories I was very proud of, has made me give up. I literally cannot bring myself to write anything. I'll come up with an idea, even plan it out some, but I always convince myself to not go further.

>>22270753
human experience is not "one size fits all"
to believe so is the height of arrogance and stupidity

I wrote more than a thousand words today. I'm thinking that if I finish the outline and continue writing at such pace I can finish the draft before august and after it it's just a week of editing. Tell me, is this going to work or am I delusional again?

>>22264634
I'm trying to come up with a somewhat mystical sounding name for a medicinal solution that's supposed to really quickly dry up and close wounds. So far I've got 'clotsalt', 'stitchsalt' and 'cut grease'. Which one do you guys reckon sounds the best?

>>22271129
A week to edit a novel? That's probably not enough to proofread it, much less revise sentences, MUCH LESS revise structure/unneeded scenes. Unless you have an extremely clean first draft, I suppose. Either way, plug along anon. You got this.

>>22271194
I like the second

Late to the thread, but I saw this in London yesterday. OP reminded me of it.

>>22271204
It's more of a novelette that is possibly going to be joined a predecessor for other 4 to make a novel. I should've mentioned. Pretty clean draft since my outline is basically a draft on its own and I only need to add/remove/change names, lines and mentions after the later chapters settled in.

>>22271194
Curing salt.

>>22271223
Ugh...that's a new one.
I was still recovering from this:
https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/vanlords-new-form-urban-encampment
I'm very fortunate not to (yet) live in an area like this.

>In a surreal and hyper-connected world, a young salaryman named Kenji finds himself trapped in the monotonous routines of modern life. He yearns for an escape, inspired by Mishima's exploration of tradition and Wallace's examination of contemporary alienation. One day, Kenji stumbles upon a hidden dojo, where he encounters a mysterious sensei who claims to possess the secret to transcending societal constraints. As Kenji delves into the practice of ancient martial arts, he begins to unlock hidden dimensions of existence, blurring the boundaries between reality and illusion. Through his journey, Kenji confronts the paradoxes of modernity, the quest for authenticity, and the struggle to find purpose in a fragmented world.
How do I pull off this novel premise as an amateur writer?

>>22271069
Only bitch made human experiences can't handle some coffee

>>22271308
By writing it well

>>22271322
I think that anon is retarded and fishing for (You)s but he's technically right. A 90 pound woman sensitive to caffeine could definitely get a bit fucked up by 2 full cups of black coffee (especially depending on the type).

>>22271331
That's why I said 'human experiences', not 'human and femoid experiences'.

>>22271331
If you paced them so one was early morning at dawn and the other was late morning anyone could handle them, caffeine stays in your system for 6 hours.

>>22271308
You can do something with it if you really obsess over this japanese trad stuff. You'll really need to have engaging plot with twists and turns though. It sounds basic and plain like a 90s tv show, so you have to make something that will grip the audience. Also I propose we finally establish a metagenre of chudcore.

>>22270417
thanks!

>>22271322

>>22271355
I've known people who get racing hearts, extreme anxiety from even a single full cup of coffee. Like I said, anon was fishing for (you)s, but he's right. Not everyone has regular caffeine tolerance.
Also, caffeine lasts longer than 6 hours. That's its half life (how long to reduce 100mg to 50mg in system). It lasts more around 10-12 hours before it's not noticeable anymore.

>>22270806
They will be vague spoilers, that set the tone, and give it an air of inevitable tragedy. As those bad things happen, the reader can guess who gets what fate. And even then, some things established in the prologue, will get an ironic twist later on.
>>22270970
I am sort of building suspense like that. I honestly feel that it will make the start of my novel stronger. Without that, the buildup to the big event that Kickstarts the plot, is rather dull. But with it, suddenly there is a sense of dread in the air. We know that what they are gonna do, will have horrific consequences. But we don't know the context. That's what I have always said about spoilers. You see a spoiler without context, and it's not as bad.

Erotica writer here, I am having trouble with character descriptions. Here is a sample based on this picture, minus the piercing and hair dye.

>Haley was a tomboy, who kept her honey-golden blonde hair in a scandalous haircut, with her right side cut short and the left side flowing past her chin in natural waves. She had a light dusting of freckles on her cheeks and nose, but her most noticeable feature, besides her choice of haircut, was her stunning sapphire blue eyes.

Please give me criticism or take your own shot at describing the woman in the picture.

>>22271619
I don’t know what you want. You can’t write but does that matter in your field?

>>22271194
>>22271267
heh

>>22271619
>honey-golden blonde
Redundant. One color will do.
>scandalous haircut
Scandalous? Is this set in the 1950s?
>with her right side cut short and the left side flowing past her chin in natural waves.
The word 'asymmetrical' could help you out here.
>sapphire blue
Redundant

>>22271619
>AI slop

>>22271619
god that writing was horrible

>>22271668
It is a very prudish and conservative society.

>>22271619
The trick with description is not to reproduce the effect of camera (unless that in itself is the point) but to further reinforce the viewpoint of the one doing the describing. Instead of thinking about "how do I accurately describe this" you should put yourself in the head of a specific character and think "what does he see when he looks at her?"

Consider:
>Haley's hair was the same color as my daughter's, a darkish blonde with strawberry highlights, but one side was cut shorter than the other and she had a piercing above her right eye that looked painful and which I guess she would take off whenever she went to her father's house, since I had never seen it before. She had her father's freckles and her mother's dark blue eyes. The look of dull, adolescent apathy was all her own.

>She was five-six, slim, blonde, with a piercing on her right eyebrow. Seventeen, eighteen, couldn't have been older than eighteen. A high school senior maybe, or a college freshman. The haircut, the highlights, the piercing, the rest of her like something on the front cover of Glamour: I'd guess a prep kid going through a rebellious phase; smelled too nice for anything else.

Now, that's the best writing in the world, but hopefully you can feel two distinct people describing her.

>>22271674
still feel threatened by our machine overlords, huh?
>>22271675
pyw crab

>>22271619
Hi anon, I also write erotica. Here are my suggested edits without deviating too much from your original prose.

>Haley was a tomboy who kept her honey-gold hair in a scandalous haircut, her right side cut short and the left flowing past her chin in natural waves. A dusting of freckles spotted her cheeks and nose, though her most stunning feature was her sapphire eyes.

Or if you want my opinion of just the necessary changes

>Haley was a tomboy who kept her honey-gold hair in a scandalous haircut, her right side cut short and the left flowing past her chin in natural waves. She had a light dusting of freckles on her cheeks and nose, but her most noticeable feature, besides her choice of haircut, was her stunning sapphire eyes.
- Removed first comma
- Changed honey-golden blonde to honey-gold
- removed 'with'
- removed 'side' (already established; redundant)
- removed 'blue'
Generally just corrected the grammar and removed redundancy. Those are the fixes I would 100% recommend, rather than the stylistic adjustments in the first suggestion.

>>22271699 is good advice, and I personally wouldn't use your original description as-is, but I'm trying to offer a way to improve existing prose. You should try to filter descriptions through the POV character rather than listing out traits.

agh fuck it. I'm going to restart as a script so I stop spending hours on prose
I like doing it, but never finish the fucking story

>>22271619
I've never written erotica but how about this for an improvement:
>Haley exuded an irresistible allure that defied conventional norms. Her rebellious spirit was epitomized by a scandalously alluring hairstyle, where her honey-golden blonde locks danced in a mesmerizing symphony of contradictions. On one side, her tresses were daringly cropped short, accentuating the raw sensuality of her features, while the opposite side cascaded down past her chin in untamed, natural waves, beckoning to be caressed.

>Her flawless complexion was adorned with a subtle dusting of freckles that playfully danced across her cheeks and nose, adding a touch of mischievous charm to her already enchanting countenance. But it was her eyes, oh, those bewitching sapphire orbs, that held the power to captivate souls and leave them yearning for more. They possessed an irresistible depth, as if each glance revealed secrets yet untold, drawing you closer with an intoxicating blend of mystery and desire.

>In the presence of Haley, the world around her grew dim, unable to match the magnetic energy radiating from her very being. She defied conventions with an effortless grace, leaving those who dared to gaze upon her in a state of perpetual fascination. Haley was more than just a mere mortal; she was a tantalizing enigma, a paradox of seduction and allure that ignited a primal fire within those fortunate enough to cross her path.

>>22271731
The retard who commented 'ai slop' replies with actual ai slop. Is too retarded and amateurish a writer to notice the difference and thinks other people will fall for it. Truly hilarious.

The thing is, there's AI models out there that can write non chat-GPT prose, like sudowrite and claude v2, but you're too fucking dumb to use them.

>>22271739
It's important to remember while AI may replace you and take your job, you brought it upon yourself, meatbag.

>>22271765
You think I'm pro-AI because I'm keeping up with the field? You're actually such a gigantic fucking idiot

>>22271739
>sudowrite and claude v2, but you're too fucking dumb to use them.
Sudowrite's story engine uses ChatGPT. How do you make that and the core part which doesn't use ChatGPT not write like shit?

>>22271703
holy cringe

>>22271774
Sudowrite uses GPT-4 with special prompts and parameters or whatever the fuck it's called. Chat-GPT uses GPT-3 and GPT-4 (which are AI architectures) specifically modeled to be a chat assistant, and has been railroaded to reply in a 'polite'/'stiff'/'PC' manner. As in, in the classic 'ChatGPT' style that's so obvious. But it's not difficult to get natural sounding prose from AI models these days. Even open source stuff like llama can be pretty good from a pure sentence level perspective. Obviously, AI fails completely at big-picture stuff like plotting and keeping details (places, people, etc) or forming coherent narratives. We're a while away from being automated out, but as for raw description and 'prose quality'? AI is already there.

>>22271774
For example, anon, I ran a quick prompt through Claude V2
>Hi, can you help me improve the prose of this paragraph? Focus on sounding natural. Follow the stylistic standards of best selling authors, focused on clarity and punchy sentence structure.
>Haley was a tomboy, who kept her honey-golden blonde hair in a scandalous haircut, with her right side cut short and the left side flowing past her chin in natural waves. She had a light dusting of freckles on her cheeks and nose, but her most noticeable feature, besides her choice of haircut, was her stunning sapphire blue eyes.

>Here is one way to improve the prose while aiming for a natural, clear, and punchy style:
>Haley kept her honey-blonde hair in a bold, asymmetrical cut - short on the right, long waves sweeping past her chin on the left. A light dusting of freckles dotted her cheeks and nose. But her most striking feature was her sapphire blue eyes. Tomboyish in spirit, Haley's haircut and carefree style bucked convention.
>I trimmed some redundant phrases and aimed for more concise descriptions to help sharpen the imagery. Let me know if you would like me to modify or expand on any part of the revised paragraph. I'm happy to keep refining the prose.

You can see that the revision doesn't sound 'Chat-GPT like' and is clearly better than original anons. Maybe it still sounds slightly chat-bot like, but not remotely like the previous anon's shitpost. And this technology is (unfortunately) always getting better.

>>22271798
>>22271823
Thanks bwo

>>22271576
I mean I guess. It's a cheap trick, only if you want it to be a chap trick.

>>22270975
If you're new here...pastebin anon maintains a list of /lit/ authors and their work, and was offering to add you.

>>22272758
In that case I don't really mind but I also don't care to get my dick sucked for writing a thing. Do what ye will I guess.

Thought it was a pastebin for people who are allergic to RR or something.

I can't write what I know because I don't know much of value. What are some things I can do now to work on that? I do hold a job and participate in society but my general knowledge is lackluster.

>>22272899
How old are you? The general answer is "do more things and be mindful" but your understanding of the world is naturally going to be poor if you're young.

I have a question about creative pursuits but not fully writing. I'll ask because I like you guys and hope to get advice.

I am working on short films, one that I had planned and had a core idea to it but I'd rather wait than to do it right now, lack experience and budget even if I go very small in size. So I have small fragments of another project, but I don't feel it. When I look at my inspirations in any medium, even their small shorts or tiny projects had a core to them, emotional or narrative.
For what would be my first serious attempt I only have experimentation for the sake of experimenting. More about technique.

What to do?

>>22272924
19 y/o Zoomer

>>22272925
Expanding on my problem, the ideas I can realize have no real narrative, no real writing, no emotional reason to them. It's all technique. This sits wrong with me.

>>22272925
Short films are often too shallow or avant garde to their detriment. I've seen simple stories and tale adaptations that are really good in the medium. Often the defining factor is image. You can do it if you know about cinematography. Apso you might experience impostor syndrome in creating anything, but it goes away if you study enough and understand the underlying structure and inspiration to your inspirations.

>DFW was 24 when Broom of the System was published
>Zadie Smith was 25 when White Teeth was published
>Marek Hlasko was 23 when Eighth Day of the Week was published
>F.S. Fitzgerald was 23 when This Side of Paradise was published
>Carson McCullers was 23 when The Heart is a Lonely Hunter was published
>Tao Lin was 24 when EEEEE EEE EEEE & Bed were published
>Italo Calvino was 23 when The Path to the Nest of the Spiders was published
>Kerouac was 20 when The Sea is My Brother was published
>Goethe was 25 when The Sorrows of Young Werther was published
>Musil was 25 when The Confusions of Young Torless was published
>Hemingway was 25 when In Our Time was published
>Tatsuhiko Takimoto was 24 when Welcome to the NHK was published
>Ryu Murakami was 24 when Almost Transparent Blue was published
>Garcia Marquez was 20 when Eyes of a Blue Dog was published
>Nietzsche was 18 when "Napoleon III as a President" was published
>Nietzsche was 18 when "Fate and History" was published
>Nietzsche was 18 when Free Will and Fate was published
>Nietzsche was 19 when "Can the Envious Ever Truly Be Happy?" was published
>Nietzsche was 20 when "On Tendencies" was published
>Nietzsche was 20 when "My Life" was published
>Saramago was 25 years old when Land of Sun was published
>Dickens was 24 when Sketches by Boz was published
>Dickens was 25 when The Pickwick Papers was published
>Huxley was 25 when Limbo was published
>James Joyce was 25 when Chamber Music was published
>Proust was 25 when Pleasures and Days was published
>Mishima was 23 when Confessions of a Mask was published
>Bret Easton Ellis was 21 when Less Than Zero was published
>Bret Easton Ellis was 23 when Rules of Attraction was published
>Kenzaburō Ōe was 23 when Nip the Buds, Shoot the Kids was published
>Emile Zola was 24 when Contes à Ninon was published
>Balzac was 20 when Cromwell was published
>Baudelaire was 24 when Salon of 1845 was published
>Hitomi Kanehara was 20 when Snakes and Earrings was published
>Stig Dagerman was 23 when Ormen was published
>Strindberg was 22 when The Outlaw was published
>Ibsen was 22 when Catiline was published
>Milan Kundera was 24 when Man: A Wide Garden was published
>Adam Thirwell was 24 when Politics was published
>Ned Beaumann was 25 when Boxer, Beetle was published
>Norman Mailer was 25 when The Naked and the Dead was published
>Eleanor Catton was 22 when The Rehearsal was published
>Robert Walser was 23 when Schneewittchen was published
>Noah Cicero was 23 when The Human War was published
>Jorge Luis Borges was 24 when Fervor de Buenos Aires was published
>Tolstoy was 24 when Childhood was published
>Johan Harstad was 23 when Amublance was published
>Mira Gonzalez was 21 when i will never be beautiful enough for us to be beautiful together was published
>Mira Gonzalez was 23 when Collected Tweets was published
>Kim Insuk was 20 when Bloodline was published
>Evelyn Waugh was 25 when Decline and Fall was published
You have no excuse. Start writing.

>>22273014
I'm already 22 and have a pathetic amount of mileage, it's over. I must look into other ventures.

>>22273017
Pussy bitch

Even if you're writing an amateur litRPG you shouldn't give up what you like doing. Remember, you get stronger by hating yourself for being a failure and not by accepting yourself as a failure.

I hate that this is something i'd write

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oW9mNbMbmY

>>22273014
When I feel bad about people not reading my book, I remember I haven't read any of those either and feel better.

>>22270170
I've only heard of a couple of vanity press type deals. Or, even worse, these "publishers" who start a kickstarter page to fund an Amazon release of your book when you sign a contract with them. They're scams, every last one of them.

>>22264634
How do smut and erotica writers do their thing? Instead of just tugging it like a normal person when they get horny, do they they sit down and put their horny thoughts on paper?

Thanks for all the advice here. I've been trying to learn how to write in English since nobody reads anything in my native language.

>>22273014
Yeah but how the fuck do you get published lol. Its not like back then where getting published wasn't as disgustingly overflooded as it is now.

>>22273014
McCarthy was 32

>>22266223
20 seconds? You're being optimistic

>>22266014
I tip my fedora to you, fellow atheist.

>>22273014
looking at age published is so weird, it should be the time in between age started writting to age published. Some people start when they are 14 and some when they are 44.
But I guess that would be too hard

>want somebody to critique my plot outline before spending a month writing it
>lit anons will just mock me for even asking

:(

>>22273562
yea, just write it for a month
plot outlines are is not actual writing

>>22273205
As someone who's written it Your not really that horny, If you were you'd jack off typically we are in a somewhat non-horny state of mind while writing however we are writing what makes others or us horny,

>>22273567
> write novel
>plot is incoherent and boring

>>22273732
thats when you start editing or do you think you just make a novel once and start querying?

>>22273737
>start editing
>write a plot outline
>not actual writing

>>22273775
kek, sure keep doing your outline anon
can't wait to see when you start your book

>>22273776
>jk rowling outlined
>gene wolfe outlined
>alexander dumas outlined

>this is a writing general and they advocate not outlining

>>22273780
I find your inability to post normally just as funny as your inability to read

>>22273780
Stephen King doesn't outline you absolute fucking idiot.
JK Rowling is also a shit writer.

Literally do whatever works best for you. I use a mixed method, I outline general points (ie. I know what a scene is meant to look like and what scheme the story is supposed to follow) and then eyeball the rest.

>>22273798
okay

>>22273829
>stephen king doesnt outline

I don't enjoy his books. He is also known for his dissatisfactory endings.

no need to be so angry over someone else's opinion

>>22274012
>no need to be so angry over someone else's opinion
kek literally everyone who has responded to you has been cool headed you are the one greentexting everybody and getting angry

Agonizingly slow progress today lads. This section is fucking impossible.

>>22274054
I fucking hate mondays, man. Too weak to push harder.

As an actual writer, unlike the rest of you fakes.
Let it sit in your head and wing it at first. Otherwise, you'll "outline" all the shit ideas that your brain will filter out as you keep going. When you eventually outline, think of it as a milestone.

I almost always do a quick "outline" prior to beginning a writing session unless I'm extremely clear on what I want to do with a scene.

Just stuff like:

-X on his way to meet with Y
-Checks gun ammunition
-they meet
-"hey joey blablabla sleep with the fishes" (actual good dialog that has been sticking out in my mind and I want to get to in the scene)
-shit goes down
-they shoot each other
-Joey becomes a zombie.

you get the fucking picture.

But you start outlining before writing a single page or getting to know your characters... I mean, sometimes that works? Maybe? I don't know, it sounds like shit to me.

Let's recap, bitches.

>Sit with an idea in your head unit you feel "inspired"
>Wing it at first
>Make some vague outlines for future scenes
>Make a rough outline directly prior to beginning a writing session of what you want to cover.

Take it from me, I'm a selfpublished author and once lied and said he had a netflix deal.

I know what I'm talking about.

Oh yeah, and draft as fast as you fucking can, then edit later. Don't be scared. Just do it.

>>22274079
>As an actual writer, unlike the rest of you fakes.
Okay Amazon self-published "writer".

But yeah, letting it stew in your mind and maybe taking a note or two if you have to is much better than autistically writing out shit ideas that you'll trash. I like to think on dialogues, scene and general plot forwardment when taking a shower, a shit or trying to sleep.

>>22265067
My first thought was that we do that all the time with people who are raised to ignore their own wants and desires for the sake of becoming a productive worker. They'd probably have the same attitude as the guy who wakes up at 5 to sit in traffic for three hours so he's not late for his job as a data entry consultancy supervisor.

What is the essence of a good opening paragraph? Should it foreshadow or establish a theme? Should it guide the reader through understanding the piece? How do you make it impactful?

>>22274198
It should establish tone

>>22274213
Okay. What about not first person works?

>>22274229
Honestly fuck the opening paragraph. My thing has a short intro, probably a little bigger than a paragraph, but if the ending of the intro doesn't hook you, I don't know what will.

My novel is shaping up to have a lot of YA themes and is about teens and young adults; however, I like to think my writing is very good and that if actual kids were to read it, it would be far too dark thematically. It is not a happy story.
If Catcher in the Rye were published today, would it be considered YA?

>>22273829
>>22273780
>Literally do whatever works best for you. I use a mixed method, I outline general points (ie. I know what a scene is meant to look like and what scheme the story is supposed to follow) and then eyeball the rest.
This is the same as Brandon Sanderson's method, he mentioned it in his BYU course as well:
https://faq.brandonsanderson.com/knowledge-base/can-you-go-into-depth-about-outlining/

>>22274079
Can you point out the flaws in my prose? Could I get away with the whole novel being written like this?

On the 30th of October, 2015, the owner of the bison farm in the Silesian suburb of Pszczyna received an unexpected letter strangely addressed to her fourteen year old granddaughter, Jane Sharp, whom had been out caring for the animals all morning; but there was no doubt, judging from the terrifying scrawl on the face of the envelope, whom had written it.
When the young girl saw her grandmother staring absentmindedly at the envelope for what seemed to be too long, she left the vivarium out of curiosity, and, with straw still in her hand, leaned against the door frame of the office.

>>22274346
Huckleberry Finn is a book written for 8 year olds

>>22274456
I didn't ask about Huckleberry Finn. I asked about Catcher in the Rye.

>>22274395
>strangely addressed to her fourteen year old granddaughter, Jane Sharp, whom had been out
You can say
>strangely addressed to whom
and it would be correct, since whom would follow a preposition, but not as a like you have it now. I think
> whom had been out caring for the animals all morning
is just a predicative compliment and should just be in the normal subjective case.

I finally got a tone and feeling I want to inflict but I feel like I lack the skill to do it.

>>22274483
corrected.

Why is my prose not clear or engaging?

Baked Bread
>>22274601
>>22274601
>>22274601
>>22274601

>>22274491
>Why is my prose not clear or engaging?
Some people might have an issue with complicated sentences, but I'm fine with it. But you are packing too much new information in a too small space. Date, place, occupation, named character, unnamed character, letter, situation. No room to breathe.

>>22274617
Now that you mention it, I am packing too much information in a sentence. Is showing a character react one way to let the reader breathe?

I managed to figure out several plot and a theme for my first novel I plan to publish on Royalroad (not a litrpg nor a isekai so maybe my work won't be read )


I have already written more than 10k words but my sentences are kinda robotic when I want to describe place, mood and emotion

How do you train for this kind of thing? The obvious? (Take a book that I like and try to understand the structure)