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/lit/ - Literature

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22273888 No.22273888 [Reply] [Original]

Marx ruined Young Hegelianism by turning the search for eternal truth, beauty and nature into a bourgeois concept. Wagner is the true heir to Feuerbach and art will guide the revolution.

>The line my fancy followed was an organisation of public life in common, as also of domestic life, such as must lead of itself to a beauteous fashioning of the human race. The calculations of the newer Socialists therefore lost my sympathy from the moment they seemed to end in systems that took at first the repellent aspect of an organisation of Society for no other purpose but an equally-allotted toil. However, after sharing the horror which this aspect kindled in aesthetically-cultured minds, a deeper glance into the proposed condition of society made me believe I detected something very different from what had hovered before the fancy of those calculating Socialists themselves. I found to wit that, when equally divided among all, actual labour, wit hits crippling burthen and fatigue, would be downright done away with, leaving nothing in its stead but an occupation, which necessarily must assume an artistic character of itself. A clue to the character of this occupation, as substitute for actual labour, was offered me by Husbandry, among other things; this, when plied by every member of the commonalty [or "parish"—Gemeinde], I conceived as partly developed into more productive tillage of the Garden, partly into joint observances for times and seasons of the day and year, which, looked at closer, would take the character of strengthening exercises, ay, of recreations and festivities. Whilst trying to work out all the bearings of this transformation of one-sided labour, with its castes in town and country, into a more universal occupation lying at the door of every man, I became conscious on the other hand that I was meditating nothing so intensely new, but merely pursuing problems akin to those which so dearly had busied our greatest poets themselves, as we may see in "Wilhelm Meister's Wanderjahre." I, too, was therefore picturing to myself a world that I deemed possible, but the purer I imagined it, the more it parted company with the reality of the political tendencies-of-the-day around me; so that I could say to myself, my world will never make its entry until the very moment when the present world has ceased—in other words, where Socialists and Politicians came to end, should we commence.

>> No.22273891
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22273891

>>22273888
Both were refuted by Saint Max.

>> No.22273908
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22273908

>The intellectual battle that contemporary Germany is fighting, consciously or unconsciously, is really a battle between Richard Wagner and Karls Marx.

>> No.22273929

>>22273888
>which necessarily must assume an artistic character of itself
Is your quote from Marx or Wager? This sounds pretty good to me, but sounds exactly like Marx does to me. Fits with stuff he says in the 1844 manuscripts and I find it a natural and still-romanticist continuation of Hegel and Feuerbach. So I assume it's Marx, since wasn't Wagner some nationalist?

>> No.22273938

>>22273888
Marx using fucking Hegel of all people to justify a materialist system has always struck me as one of the greatest farces in the history of philosophy. Yes, I know, he claimed to be "turning Hegel on his head." This has always been cope, of course, like if I claimed to found a materialist philosophy by turning "The Secret" on its head. I know you're coming at this from the perspective of Marx's materialism being an insult to Hegelian idealism, but the point is that Marxism is an insult to materialism and idealism both.

>> No.22273948

>>22273929
It's Wagner summarising his political ideas for King Ludwig. If you want more revolutionary Wagner The Artwork of the Future and A Communication to my Friends are good reads.

>> No.22273965

>>22273948
Nice, thanks friend. What are your thoughts on young Marx from the 1844 manuscripts? He basically says that in an ideal socialism, productive labor takes on the character of something that reflects ourselves materially and externally in the product, and that we love the work because it's done freely, and that outside the conditions of estrangement we develop a true human sense and human appropriation of the world which is cultural and artistic and full of rich sensation and feeling. Very Feuerbachian of course, but it sounds exactly like young Wagner too, not really in conflict (?), I usually blame modern Marxists for killing the artistic soul that you like, but not Marx himself.

>> No.22274014

>muh revolution

Pathetic.

>> No.22274118

>>22273965
Their differences become more apparent as Marx grew older. He thoroughly extricated himself from Feuerbachianism. His criticism of Feuerbach is already the same as Lukacs' critique of Wagner as a 'true socialist' because the side of Feuerbach that Marx criticised was for Wagner the most important. It's true Wagner drifted away from Feuerbach too, while in an opposite direction to Marx, but his later thought was only a maturation of the essential ideas developed under Feuerbach.

>> No.22274140

>>22273965
And even when Marx was at his most Feuerbachian I think he was still quite removed from Wagner's philosophising about reality. From what you describe Marx seems to only touch on art and reality insofar as it concerns social movement, and that is a very clear orientation throughout his life. In short Wagner goes from art to revolution, Marx at this stage from revolution to art. I don't know if the late Marx made any positive comments regarding art.

>> No.22274271
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22274271

>>22273888
my favorite part of karl marx is his poem where he admits he was working for the devil, what a joker. haha

>> No.22274485
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22274485

>>22274271
>the Negative Infinity do be like that tho haha