/lit/ - Literature

first for all posters in this thread will be cursed with public sharts

>>22255313

Are there any good resources out there for learning how to develop plots?

>>22255254
>Post an excerpt and we can give our views on it
how can I turn this into a full chapter that builds up the when he finds her
https://pastebin.com/X0S8McRw

>>22255379
I don't care about Henri or any of the other people in your story. I'm thrown into the woods with a bunch of people and I don't give a shit about what's happening.

>>22255443
it's a chapter out of the middle of a novel
I'm not asking for advice on its content or small refinements, just the structure

>>22255308
I finished a chapter today. It had been 9 days since I finished my previous chapter. I'm less than a third of the way through my next chapter but the chapter after that was finished in the September of last year. I'm reaching the end. 141k words done. Only 5 chapters remain. If I really applied myself, I could finish this month.

>>22255473
Congratulations.

Will you apply yourself?

Trashy isekai reverse world.
https://pastebin.com/GpQseADq

>>22256124
why are you censoring the word phalli and penis?

>>22255379
>how can I turn this into a full chapter that builds up the when he finds her
Why would you want to drag it out?
You have to add some obstacle to finding her. Presumably there are some spooky things in the spooky woods.

>>22256144
Because of pastebin. The xxx's are the protagonist's name which I haven't come up with yet.

I've been thinking of writing, but I need to come up with answers to a few questions.

How do you guys find the motivation to write a book? How do I come up with a setting? What's should be the motive of my protagonist? Is is good to have a villain that's not a human?

>>22256204
Buddy I say this in the most polite way possible, but I really think you need answer these all for yourself

>>22256212
I can't. I've been thinking about it for the last 3 weeks. Would having a female protagonist or a male protagonist be better? What power isn't over done yet?

I created a great world setting and backstory, along with genially interesting characters to fill it. I think it's some of my best work. Spend ages fleshing everything out but when I set out to write a plot outline I realised I don't have any antagonist(s) or threat. There's nothing to drive my story or protags forward. Now my mind is a total blank. FML.

>>22256219
>What power isn't over done yet?
all of them, make an MC without special powers

>>22256219
Maybe you can help me too. I've been trying to get into drawing and can't decide what the best color to paint with is. And is stylized or realistic better?? I kind of want to draw humans but I feel like they're overdone. Seriously stuck here, been thinking about it for weeks.

I'm trying to think of powers and spells for my characters. I want it to be tied to an animal as well.heres what I got

Fire = dragon
Water = ?????
Lightning = monkey
Earth = ox
Dark = ????
Light = ????
Spirit = Eagle
Sound = Hornet

How does that sound?

I afraid my story is too brutal for my protagonist to the point i think i might overdone it

>>22256251
That sounds like a very creative concept! Here are some suggestions for the missing elements:

Water: In various myths, water is often associated with aquatic creatures. A dolphin, being known for intelligence and sociability, could be a fitting choice. But if you're looking for a bit more fantastical creature, you might choose a mythical creature like a mermaid or a sea serpent.

Dark: This could be associated with a bat or a black panther. Both animals are adapted to life in darkness. The panther, in particular, can symbolize power, grace, and stealth, which could add some depth to your dark-powered character. If you're open to mythical creatures, you could even consider a mythical dark creature such as the Hellhound.

Light: Animals associated with light are often birds because they can reach closer to the sun. The dove is a classic symbol of peace and purity, but if you want a more majestic creature, you might choose a phoenix. The phoenix is a mythical creature known for bursting into flames when it dies and being reborn from the ashes, which could tie nicely into themes of light and rebirth.

Of course, these are just suggestions. It's important to choose animals that resonate with the characters and the world you're building. Don't forget to consider the qualities of the animals when developing your characters' personalities and abilities. This can provide a rich layer of symbolism and deepen the reader's connection to your characters.

>>22256251
All real animals. Get rid of the dragon and put a Dog. Hellhounds are underused

>>22256204
>How do you guys find the motivation to write a book?
For me it all has to stem from a theme that makes me lose sleep. If I can discuss it for hours, it is enough to inspire me to create a story with.
>How do I come up with a setting?
I brainstorm what settings it could be in and weigh the merits of each. Constrained by the genres I am willing to do.
>What's should be the motive of my protagonist?
Your protagonist's motivation can be something he doesn't even necessarily understand, but something that you understand. If you already have a conflict in the story, try to imagine different motivations that might bring that character into conflict, and what he might have to realize or change to overcome it.
>Is is good to have a villain that's not a human?
It depends on the kind of story you are doing. You can have multiple antagonists for different aspects of the plot, and none of them have to be outright villains. In other words, your antagonists don't have to hate the protagonist to stop him from getting what he wants.

>>22256251
eel
bat
falcon
:DDD

>>22256251
if you have dragons, a kraken could make a good one for water
imo monkey is weird for lightning. you'd be better off with a thunderbird, or at least something capable of flight
agree with the other anon that a bat could be good for dark, but also something like a panther is a pretty typical choice. if you want to be different, you could do some sort of burrowing insect
light imo ought to be an elemental/fairy/something of a mystical nature. maybe a unicorn? or even something like a rooster lol

>>22256267
chat gpt or what's going on

>>22256362
obviously chat gpt

>>22256369
maybe that's just his writing style tho

>>22256235
this is referred to as the "worldbuilding trap"

>>22256235
Have you already come up with different ideas that people believe in the world? Could those come into conflict?
What kind of event could happen that could disrupt the balance of the world, and what would a protagonist have to do to restore the status quo? Maybe the protagonist is new to the setting and is conflict with all of the new things.

>>22256378
Literally nobody writes like this.

I've sent out several short stories in an attempt to publish them, and so far all of them have been rejected. I think that it's really not getting to me, but after my most recent rejection a month and a half ago, I haven't been able to write anything.

I tend to write short fiction fantasy/dark fantasy/horror, really anything with swords and a secondary world. I have stories I think are really good, and I've re-edited and re-written, that I'd like to send out, but I can't send them to the same site twice. Does anyone have any good recommendations for sites I can submit my style of stories to?

how long should a chapter be? i feel like im writing too much into a chapter when i reach 4k words and too many jarring scene transitions because theres a lot i need to set up for a mystery to land

>>22256573
Depends on medium. Webfic should be 2.5k to 3.5k consistently.

>>22256649
what about non webfics?

https://pastes.io/ywh9wnzgpl
Is this too much reading to expect the average computer game player to do
also should demonic possession cause a gradual change in personality, or would it be more abrupt?

>>22256766
https://pastes.io/1xh9di3ulv
and the corresponding journal entries for the son if anyone wants to read them and tell me how shit everything is

>only idea for a novel-length story i can think of prominently features a lot of suicide
Probably not a good sign eh fellas
I have a feeling if I try writing this I'm going to DFW it up sooner rather than later

>>22256657
Depends on what you're writing
To expand, if you're writing genre fiction where every chapter must end with a cliffhanger, (think Dan Brown, James Patterson), your word count target is gonna be similar. Chapters should be short enough to be read in a single sitting.
If not, then the rules are much looser. Some fiction writers have the idea that each chapter ought to tell a mostly contained story that ends with a question or something unresolved, which leads into the next.
Some people don't have chapter breaks at all, so don't pen yourself into it.

>>22256235
I wrote a whole MG fantasy novel and realized when I was done that the primary antagonist didn't really show up until the end and wasn't that interesting anyhow. I consider the work unsalvageable. But it made me think a lot more about antagonists in general and I've come to the conclusion that their job is to sell your book. Everything else can be a magical journey through your whimsy but the antagonist has to be there, every chapter, trying his best to sell your fucking book. He is a self-aware character who plays his role as well as he can because he wants the book to sell. He hates you, the author, for not doing enough to sell your own goddamn book, but he's your best friend because he's picking up the slack for you. Thinking about it in this way has made figuring out how to engage antagonists in the story much more enjoyable.

>>22256889
>I wrote a whole MG fantasy novel and realized when I was done that the primary antagonist didn't really show up until the end and wasn't that interesting anyhow.
Lord of the Rings?

>>22256925
LotR is not MG. Sauron hires goons to do the work for him, but he's there from the start doing his job in the capacity that Tolkien allowed him.

>write with pen and paper
>writing automatically begins to slant
>eventually writing at an angle

I’m fine when writing in something with clear marks of demarcation between each line, but whenever I write on featureless paper, this happens. Is there anything to fix this?

>>22256987
/wg/ penmanship general

don't tell your audience the answers. Give them 2+2, and they will love you forever.

>>22256855
My protag's main goal is to kill himself. Hey, don't think it's not a thing to write about.

Should I take the time to do the Scrivener tutorial and really learn the tools in Scrivener?

>>22256889
> I consider the work unsalvageable.
I hope it doesn't come to this but it is certainly looking that way. Until now I hadn't realised how important an antagonist was.

>>22257070
I would certainly do some of them even if it is just to learn the differences between Scrivener and a more typical text editor, and to become familiar with all the options and customisation possible when compiling your final manuscript or book.

I have a goal of writing 100 flash fiction pieces. How do I come up with plots for them all?

>>22256855
It worked for the movie "Heathers".

>>22257517
By getting good and activating your schizo brain.

Honestly, just have a walk outside and think of some random shit that could happen to someone, or you, and write it down.
Anything can be interesting, the question is how you write it.

>>22257517
Live life. Talk to people.
If that's not feasible, borrow them from r/writingprompts .

>>22256855
I literally just finished writing a character that kys'd few days ago.
Regret is a big theme in my thing.

>>22257937
How do I write such mature themes?

Gimme your word count + total editing time. For me, 42,583/117:10

>>22257944
Suffer.

>>22257955
>Gimme your word count
I have no clue but somewhere in ballpark of 45k~ and a lot of editing hours.

>Start looking at agents for my fantasy novel
>9/10 agents are white women "looking for queer and BIPOC voices"
I'm never getting signed am I?

>>22257970
Publish at a jew.

Jews want money.

>>22257955
141520 words
55429 minutes

>>22255376
Pen and paper. Also read more.

I’m technically bipoc but nothing write is about that shit and I can’t get published.

>>22257955
I cut 20,000 words in three days. Now I am at 80,000.

Can't believe that at one point my main inspirations for a single novella were works of McCarthy, Wilde and Lovecraft simultaneously.

I struggle to understand how to properly write something engaging. As the writer, I'm practically omniscient within the world I created, so I cannot relate to the reader, who only knows what he's reading. Because of this I don't know how to write in a way the reader becomes engaged by the story and actively desires to keep reading and discover more
How do yoy guys deal with something like this?

>>22258355
Well, don't you know what you would find interesting yourself? If there's something you really like creating, then the reader should get it too.

my 16 year old wrote this

>>22258355
idk man i just write for myself

>>22258279
I would read that desu

>>22258374
yeah seems like what a 16 year old would write

That Snowflake writing method thing someone recommended last thread is terrible and pretentious. I don't need to learn Excel to outline, and it encouraged what horsefuckers call "Lavender Unicorn Syndrome"

>>22257970
>>22258028
I'm a bipoc, wrote a bipoc story, and addressed everything a white woman wanted and still couldn't get an agent

>>22257937
My idea was kind of the opposite, I was thinking I might write a story where everyone else kills themselves and the protagonist is left increasingly alone by not doing so himself

>>22258503
Should have put on a dress to the meeting with the publisher. Being asian is not enough today.

>>22258515
Hmmm...

>>22258515
>humiliate yourself to please your overlords
Try writing a better book

>>22258480
>it encouraged what horsefuckers call "Lavender Unicorn Syndrome"
Should I be able to intuit what this means?

>>22258508
>the protagonist is left increasingly alone by not doing so himself
That too also kind of manifests itself in my story, but in slightly different manner.

>>22258544
When writers think it makes the story read better if they refuse to use their characters' names and instead use descriptions to refer to them, which becomes unbearably cliche since every writer gets the same 'unique' idea. See also "orbs" instead of eyes.

>>22258569
Ah yeah, that always bothers me. Is that really part of the snowflake method though? I thought that one was about structure.

Would you find it jarring to be halfway through a novel and having a sudden point of view change? I've been writing in the third person from the point of view of my protagonist and I'm thinking about having part of a chapter that starts off with his girlfriend following and observing him and then shifting back to his point of view with a page break. I don't think I'll do this again in the novel though, so I'm worried it'll stick out like a sore thumb.

>>22258480
I think a theoretical physicist knows what he's talking about better than you. Leave the writing to the professionals, maybe stick to your RR cultivation novels.

>>22258756
American psycho has one chapter in a different POV. As long as you have a reason behind it, why not?

>>22258785
NTA but what does being a theoretical physicist have to do with knowing how to outline a book? And going by your appeal to authority argument, I doubt the old greats were using a ""snowflake method"" to develop their novels. And aren't genre fic writers more famous for these stringent outlining models than litfic authors? This is a bizarre comment all around.

Do you think it's better to infuse a new unexplored concept into a common fantasy creature (like a dragon) or to create a completely original creature? Would it change if the type of setting doesn't really gravitate towards modern fantasy with it's earning for originality but serves as a vessel for a fairy tale like story?

>>22258279
I see the former and latter, but how would you get Wilde in that mix?

>>22255376
Check out 'novels'. It's how most people learnt to write until creative writing classes developed in the US in the years after WWII.

>>22258355
>As the writer, I'm practically omniscient within the world I created, so I cannot relate to the reader, who only knows what he's reading.
How are you able to imagine a whole fiction world full of hundreds of fictional lives, and not be able to imagine a guy reading a story?

>>22258355
It depends on your goal or motivations of the characters and the plot in general. A mystery will be different than a slowburn romance, of course. I would try to map out the base story on paper, and work backwards from the main climax(es). Being able to see it simplified and laid out should help, much like writing an outline. It may even help you see gaps that you can cover. Also consider what your audience would question. If you can explain the plot to someone irl, they might give you insight on what they need clarification on.

Give them some conflicts and dilemmas throughout, stagger the direction to the goal a bit like a rollercoaster. What you need to learn is calibrating and give/take, much like trying to seduce a person! Tension, then relief, stuff like that. If you have some novels you're trying to emulate, do a breakdown of how they do it and then build from there.

>>22256251
>water
serpent, the fluidity makes sense
>dark
raven maybe, panther/bat is also a given
>light
lion? sheep otherwise, or maybe deer (that or switch deer and eagle)
>spirit
wolf

lightning for monkey is also odd, I would think to associate lightning with birds

>>22258819
In which senses is it like a fairy tale?
Fairy tales are economical with their concepts, I suppose because of how they were transmitted. Lots of animals and stock fantastical creatures or just weird little guys, easy to remember. The most faithful route would be to use an existing creature everybody knows (like a dragon) and add just one single quality to it.
But maybe that's not actually the tone you're going for.

>>22258374
Sounds like a smart kid anon

>>22258756
>Would you find it jarring to be halfway through a novel and having a sudden point of view change?
No.

Disclaimer: I have no ambitions in writing since I only read one book in my entire life. I am a noby who knows nothing of the world and it's functions. And most importantly the writing below is something I came up with as im writing it into this very post box.
Be harsh. I don't deserve to be spared

>Kalia knocked on the door before entering the room.
She didn't wait for premission to enter for she was allowed to move freely through the palace. Elegantly and almost feline like she walked into the room, watching her steps as she tried to be as quirt as possible.
She pressed the palm of her hand onto her chest in a saluting motion.
The room, a office of modest sice, cramped from shelf's that took a third of the available space, dimmly lit as the only light source art the glowing minerals fixed on the ceiling.
The floor is wooden, checkered tilled with light birch wood and the soft dark of cherry tree.
The modest office, it's main point of focus is the desk that takes up almost the half opposite of the door.
A extravagant piece. A single block of wood carved into a table, the surfacte not smooth but a masterfully depiction of the empire and it's surrounding lands carved into it.
And infront of this stands a figure, dressed in modest clothing, almost too modest for his status within this palace.
"My Lord, you have called?"
Kalia addresses the man observing the table who does not answer.
"My Lord?"
Kalia repeated. The man does not turn around but waves her too his side. Cat-like with almost completely silent steps the woman follows the command.

>>22259260
>premission
Off to a great start.
>almost feline like
Feline manner, feline fashion would work better.
>she tried to be as quirt as possible.
What.
>The floor is wooden, checkered tilled with light birch wood and the soft dark of cherry tree.
Is this important?

This can't hold me any longer.

>>22258883
Well, I'm trying to use the logic and simplicity of fairy tales. The dragons were in there from the start of the idea, I'm just not sure that I can get away with having half of the story dedicated to dragons that are not like any other fantasy dragons or even mythological ones. Especially when their qualities are tightly related to the plot and world.

>>22259293
>our dragons are different
Okay, then why are they dragons?

In the end, do what you want, but is it really a dragon if it doesn't breathe fire and fly around?

>>22259280
While writing the room I was really debating how long I should do this haha.
Also sorry for the awful typos

>>22259312
>how long I should do this
Ideally fucking never unless it has some bearing on the story, a character or worldbuilding.

I will keep repeating that worldbuilding is not an Ikea catalogue.

>>22259339
I see, so only if it severs the scene. Then let's only keep the table

I finished my book and self published. 75k words and I can finally say I'm proud of myself. I know it's not a masterpiece, I probably won't even sell that many copies but I created something from nothing and that feeling is undescribable.

>>22259421
What's the book

>>22259260
Okay I did a little revision

>Kalia knocked on the door before entering the room.
She didn't wait for permission to enter for she was allowed to move freely through the palace. Elegantly like a feline she strode into the room, watching her steps as she tried to be as quiet as possible, a habit from her childhood. She pressed the palm of her hand onto her chest in a saluting motion.
The room, a office of modest sice and dimmly lit. It's main point of focus is the desk that takes up almost the half of the room opposite of the door.
A extravagant piece, betraying the modesty of the room. A single block of wood carved into a table, the surface not smooth but a masterfully depiction of the empire and it's surrounding lands carved into it.
And infront of the desk stands a figure, dressed in the garb of the common folk, certainly too modest for his emperor status.
"My Lord, you have called?"
Kalia addresses the emperor who is observing the table and does not answer.
"My Lord?"
Kalia repeated. The man does not turn around but waves her too his side. Feline stride as if on a catwalk. Kalia moves almost inaudible to his side, eager to hear for why her master had called her.

>>22257970
It's worse than you think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aduzco1VJZE
Just self-publish & do all the publicity yourself. You'll end up having to anyway.

>>22259421
Shill ot

>>22258480
The snowflake method probably wasn't designed for someone who's an expert in horsefucking.

I want to have a character write cringy fanfiction so I'm sourcing specific ideas for its content, specifically ensuring that the fandom and subject matter authentic for something written by a lonely and sheltered preteen girl. In my day it would most certainly have been Harry Potter, but I can't really see that being the case now.
Any parents/children/creepy uncles itt have any suggestions as to what would be suitable for this kind of material in the 2020's?

I made a FOOL of myself on the first date. I knew I shouldn’t have had that cup of coffee, with how it affects me. Psychedelic even if it was landing on a full stomach, but I was empty and one pint of hard cider in. Sweating, jabbering nonsense a mile a minute, looking at my smartwatch to see if I was having a heart attack. We still took a two-station ride downtown together while I said something stupid about not liking theater because Kubrick and Lynch are so great, who needs theater after that. What an ASS, jesus FUCK.

She hugged me goodbye, but I didn’t look back.

I went to the Ponds (formerly Goat Marsh) because my old time army pal had a day off work, and wanted to buy new glasses at this trendy place that just opened around the area somewhere. I hate the Ponds, wouldn’t piss on the people who live there if they were on fire. I made a point of taking my windbreaker when I left home in the afternoon, but the wind was still too cold. Short summer, I can already feel the autumn on its breath, the smell of rotten leaves. Hobos and winos loitering outside the trendy storefronts, bad boomer power ballads are playing from unseen speakers.

When he rounded the corner from behind the station exit, I knew it would be a bad evening. Lobster red, bloated, eyes looking through me. He had a flask of brandy in his Asterisk bag, and I guess a quarter of a gram of coke? Maybe more? I dunno. He offered me some, and thank God for my Herculean restraint, since I was all too aware of how fucked was I from that coffee still. A bump of coke would probably kill me. We ducked into some deserted pizza place (where IS everyone?) off the side street, and he went into the bathroom to do to all by himself.

By the time we got to the optics shoppe, he was getting the FEAR, real bad. Couldn’t properly explain himself so he snuck out outside pretending to answer a phone call, sniffing and clearing his throat. The hungry shop assistants swarmed me. Just looking (at your deicious flat-ish chest and wide freckled steppe face, pale wet sand colored eyes and cheekbones like honey-coated chisels), haha. I’m out and on the way to the bar I find out he palmed off his 1,2. y.o. son off on grandma, and had a 3-day coke bender at some badly organized music festival in the weeds. I say nothing. I don’t think we are cut out for this life. We have two Aperols in the bar. Tastes like cotton-candy flavored vomit. He has a B-52 shot and completely unravels, meekly asking our Zoomer art-hoe waitress (great service, she even found a charger for my phone) for a room temperature water. He slides down the booth seat, dripping sweat, unable to clear his throat from the coke. I polish it off with a glass of Chardonnay that tastes like dish soap.

I hug him hard at the station, the Five Points of Fellowship. I make sure he feels it, because he seems to be on the verge of tears. I listen to Akira Yamaoka’s Forest on the way back on a loop.

The Millenial Dream

>>22258785
>I think a theoretical physicist knows writing
Wat

>>22259490
And I did a little, continuation


Kalia stands next to her emperor who is not studying the carving in the table but rather looking with tired eyes at it.
"I still remember when it was only half it's size." Kalia swipes a strand of her long bronze hair to the side, studying the table
"It was a long battle we fought, assimilating our neighbors, but it worked on our favor."
"10 years" the emperor says unable to hide the tiredness in his voice
"10 years we waged war and sice 5 we live in peace."
Kalia studies the emperor's face. Brown short beard with a hint of gray. A face looking exhausted and eyes that lost it's fire. All reminding her of how long she served under him.
The emperor looks slowly towards Kalia, closes his eyes and takes a deep breath.
"I will retire."
Taken aback by what she just heard, Kalia smiles a little confused
"Retire? My lord you are in a joking mood today."
"Its not a joke, next week my rule ends and it will be official"
The empire smiles at Kalia suddenly as if lifted from a burden.
"But- but you cant just leave." Still a little confused Kalkar retaliates
"You have no heir, no one to take the throne. What about your people and duties?"
The emperor takes piece of paper from the desk, pressing it into Kalias hand. The writing on it is in clear black and white, signed with the Royal signet.
"It is done" says the emperor "it is done" he says now more happy
"Next week I shall be a commoner" he beams with exictment. "I will travel the lands I build up. I want to see it for myself."
The emperor stepping closer to the speechless Kalias who is still reading the testament, points a finger to a certain line of words.
"And you will inherit it all."

I finally realized what my short story is about. Does anyone else do this? Feel like there's something behind the idea, and then it emerges after the first draft?

>outlining a scifi space opera story, nailing down the plot specifics, progression, characters, motivations and resulting themes
>suddenly realize that because the entire story and its themes are almost purely character driven, it would basically work just as well in a quasi-historical bronze age aegean sea setting as it would in space
>especially since the entire thing is somewhat inspired by stuff like the Odyssey/Illiad/King Oedipus
It's made me reexamine in general the reasons for why I'd write a story in any specific setting, but using sci-fi/space as a setting in particular really struck me as almost unjustifiable without fulfilling either one of two different categorical purposes.
>A. The scifi elements are necessary to facilitate some sort of "mechanical" role for the themes of the story, and these elements dont reasonably exist, or fail to facilitate the thematic purpose in other settings (stuff like synthetics/soul with Dick, or mathematical stuff like psychohistory from Asimov; these concepts are fundamental to the story's theme, but only really work in a scifi setting, as opposed to mundane/fantasy/historical/etc)
>B. The scifi elements fulfill purely an aesthetic purpose, e.g. Dune, Star Wars. This also feels somewhat justifiable to me, but only if the aesthetics actually meet a certain threshold of quality.
Obviously, the best scifi stories are able to fulfill both of these categories, but it made me wonder: If a story doesnt meet either criteria, is making it "scifi" or "space opera" just padding without substance, detracting from the actual story/characters/themes? Take mine, for example, the scifi/space elements arent "technically" necessary to the plot, nor do they really tie in thematically beyond mere aesthetic flair (which is neither very developed nor all that crucial in this case).
Thoughts on this? Or just in general, on the justifications/ramifications of using specific types of settings, be they scifi/fantasy, or more mundane/historical, like medieval/wild west/ancient/etc?

>>22259880
Making the setting relevant to the plot helps bring the story to life. You can get away with not doing that in shorter stories, but in longer stories I think it's a good idea the correlate more.

>>22259847
And did another little cleanup

Kalia stands next to her emperor who is not studying the carving in the table but rather looking with tired eyes at it.
"I still remember when it was only half it's size." Kalia swipes a strand of her long bronze hair to the side, studying the table
"It was a long battle we fought, assimilating our neighbors, but it worked in our favor."
"10 years" the emperor says unable to hide the tiredness in his voice
"10 years we waged war and sice 5 we live in peace."
Kalia studies the emperor's face. Brown short beard with a hint of gray. A face looking exhausted and eyes that lost it's fire. All reminding her of how long she served under him.
The emperor looks slowly towards Kalia, closes his eyes and takes a deep breath.
"I will retire."
Taken aback by what she just heard, Kalia smiles a little confused
"Retire? My lord you are in a joking mood today."
"Its not a joke, next week my rule ends and it will be official"
The emperor smiles at Kalia suddenly as if lifted from a burden.
"But- but you cant just leave the empire and your duties behind" Still a little confused Kalia retaliates
"You have no heir, no one to take the throne. What about your people and- and you can't just leave"
The emperor takes piece of paper from the desk, pressing it into Kalias hand. The writing on it is in clear black and white, signed with the Royal signet.
"It is done" says the emperor "It is done!" he says now more happy
"Next week I shall be a commoner" he beams with exictment. "I will travel the lands I build up. I want to see it for myself."
The emperor stepping closer to the speechless Kalias who is still reading the testament, points a finger to a certain line of words.
"And you will inherit it all."


I leave it that, I can already imagine you guys rolling your eyes into the back of your heads

>decided to put five moons in my story
>mfw trying to figure out how lunar cycles would work now

>>22259987
You could look up how existing planets with multiple moons are affected, e.g. Jupiter.

>>22259987
I had an aspect of my story that had artificial sunlight all of the time, which had a different hue when it ought to be night. It was causing some difficulty with the world so I am scrapping the literally eternal day aspect, instead just going for aurora borealis which provides an uncommon and hard to believe phenomenon in the setting, while also not being far too difficult to accept. Was going to handwave it away with nanomachines but because I rarely talk about that, there's no real point to that.

>>22259689
Minecraft streamers

>>22259689
Google "calarts" and pick any show on the image

And good call on not going with Harry Potter, most preteen girls lose their shit over it because the author said trannies are creepy

>>22259987
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_resonance

You'll have the normal lunar phases (new, half, full, etc) but they will be independent for each moon. So five different flavors of month. And there will be lunar conjunctions when they line up. Obviously, when they are in conjunction they will also have a matching phase, so you could get occasional triple full moons or the like.

>Tell me what genres and subgenres your next book will be in
>Do not tell me any plot points or specifics about the book
>I will rate it 1-10/10

Post good monologues in fiction. Else I'll have to wear the tape off the Blood Meridian audiobook.

>>22260145
the link you just provided directly contradicts your claim that the orbits are independent of each other

>>22260149
Postmodernism
LGBTQ+
Slice of life

>>22260157
link to your work pls

>>22260157
1.5/10
Slice of life was okay, but the modifiers suck ass.

>>22260165
sol is the worst modifier of the three, and it's not even close

>>22260149
>literary fiction
>speculative
>spiritual

>>22260167
Are you a homosexual or Jewish? Any answer except a direct yes or no shall be treated as a double yes to both.

>>22260185
2.5/10 for speculative fiction, it can be interesting if done well with original concepts. Spiritual is a term used by women who are too afraid to accept or deny religion without someone telling them to.

>>22260197
I sort of agree with you on the "spiritual" comment, but Spiritual is a bookshelf category. If you shelve it under a specific religion, it has a different audience.

We should ethnic purge the pseudo intellectuals so this general can be for the genre chads only. Who's with me?

> Look for online resources/forums for writing advice
> Every single one of them is 90% fantasy fags more obsessed with world building than competent story telling
> Remaining 10% is YA/borderline-erotica from shut ins
Literature is dead

>>22260219
But I support genre bros. You can't do this to me.

>>22260227
What are you trying to write, Anon?

>>22260149
I can't write for shit but
>science fiction
>speculative evolution
>political book kind off.

>>22260186
im a bisexual tran
not jewish, though they tend to be very cute

>>22260235
Your entire transgender identity is because your hormone profile between week 6-12 of your mother's pregnancy was interrupted by microplastics, flame retardants, and PFAS from sources like nonstick pans and the like.

You're not a genuine person, merely a product.

>>22260161
here is an excerpt its a,work in progress
---------
The wizard brings the belt up to Hank "OK now for this part of the ritual you have, to be blind folded because that's very, important for receiving all the wisdom of the ages" the wizard explains as a matter of fact. "I understand and even though I'm, a little scared I really want to know the secrets, of the universe and so I will do this" Hank assures even though he wonders what is about to happen.
The wizard ties his belt around Hank's eyes and makes a knot in, the back when in faster than an instant Hank smells a really, bad smell that seems to be coming from the, belt and his eyes begin starting to water. "Wow that smells really bad is this, really necessary I don't know if, I can take this for very long" Hank pleads even though he's in no position.
"Quiet you little bitch I mean the blindfold is part, of the test and it's also a crucible because the man who emerges, from this ritual will be different than the man who, entered and isn't that all anyone can really ask for" the wizard assures Hank of his wisdom.
"OK if you say so but I hope it doesn't, take too long to receive your wisdom because my eyes are, making tears and not because I'm sad" Hank tries to relate his newfound experience. "This is only the beginning because now you have to, suck the truth of the universe out of a tube and the tube is, smelly and wrinkly and it will be all you can do to with, stand it but it's absolutely necessary for the ritual" the wizard explains with his years of knowledge.
"If you say so" Hank acknowledges "I do and also you may hear me make sounds during, the ritual but those are just magic words in an unknown, language and are also necessary for making sure you get all, of my wisdom so are you ready to start" the wizard gives last minute instructions and now his voice is shaking even more than it was earlier when it was shaking a little and Hank noticed that it was beginning to shake.

>>22260251
wow, we sure got a real free-thinker on our hands
>>22260254
lmao

>>22260254
"I am ready" Hank states and that is all he can say because then a, tube gets shoved in his mouth and as promised it tastes really, bad and Hank winces and hopes he received the wisdom really soon. "Ungngng" the wizard says as he begins the mystical incantation. The wizard says other magic words as the tube slides, in and out of Hank's mouth for reasons he can't understand but soon he, hopes he will and obviously it's part of the magic.
"No teeth!" the wizard suddenly shouts as the anger moves through his lips. Hank hopes he hasn't disturbed the ritual as he opens his mouth a little by a slight amount so that the magic can happen more better. It seems all is well as the wizard goes back to saying, magic words in the unknown language he talked about to Hank in, the past though to his untrained ears they mostly sound like moans.
The tube moves faster and faster then with a sudden motion it, moves slower and the wizard at the same time utters one long magic word that, sounds a lot like the other ones except for its length. Hank consults his memory and he believes that someone farted at about, the same time as the final magic word but he, can't smell anything that smells different than the tube.
The tube finally leaves Hank's mouth and Hank is grateful but then the wizard says with much weariness in his voice "swallow the wisdom and then the ritual is done". Hank realizes there is something slimy in his mouth but true to his devotion to the wizard he lets it slide down his throat and immediately realizes that something profound has happened.
"Why was it slimy" Hank asks even though he's in, no position to question the wizard "It's like ghost ecto plasm which, is also slimy there's a connection" the wizard imparts the profound truth. "Oh that makes sense so when do, I begin to start feeling the wisdom and oh yeah by, the way at what point can I see again" Hank doesn't want to sound ungrateful.
The wizard unties the blindfold which reveals to Hank the wizard standing, there and now he is sweating and looks tired which Hank decides is, probably the after effect of casting the spell all though he, doesn't want to ware out his welcome here.

>>22260258
Hard to accept, I know.

>>22260165
i will not accept anything over 0.5/10 for this tripe
the ratings system needs to go lower

>>22260267
yes, you're special. you're a genuine person. you're different from everyone else. you would never live your life as a product, as a tool of the elite. no, not you. you see through all the lies. you are gifted. you have an innate sense for the deep, painful truths of the world

>>22260275
You think taking hormones will fix you.
You're unfixable.
>B R O K E N
>R
>O
>K
>E
>N

>>22260149
Drama, political, romance.

>>22260275
Not that guy but the assumption that everyone are identical copies of each other is peak neo-marxist thought and really just proves what he says about you right since you're just trying to drag people that are better than you down to your level

>>22260297
8/10 These are the stories which move the world and come out only after important politicians and world figures die. Think of the secret history of Procopius.

>>22259987
Unless you're courting the space autist audience it doesn't really matter. If any nerds reee at you about it, break their glasses and call them queer.

>>22260230
You're right, I'm sorry. This was a reactionary comment aimed at the pseudo intellectual oppression us genre chads constantly face. Allies are respected and appreciated. Stronger together, brother

>>22260293
not sure the point you're trying to make here? ignoring how wildly off-track this conversation is getting, it's pretty strange that you view people as objects capable of being broken or fixed. that's not really how any of this works. i live my life in a way that brings me happiness. i don't concern myself with how others might view these choices. i am the only one i will have to live with, after all. perhaps you ought to examine the spooks residing in your own mind?
>>22260299
you are so delusional if that's what you're getting out of what i am saying. christ i didn't know /lit/ had it this bad

>>22260230
They don't care. They won't spare you. It's us or them.

>>22260315
>Actual trannie calling anyone delusional
Legitimately hilarious.

>>22260315
>i live my life in a way that brings me happiness
LMAO who are you trying to convince?
You live your life in a way that others TOLD you would bring you happiness and now you're realizing it's just barely holding you together and you're one purchase of estrogen away from ending it.
Face it you infertile broken being, you're incomplete and trying to fill an unfillable hole.
This is a metaphor for a neo-vagina btw.

>>22260149
Post modern
Drama
Mystery
Pseudo intellectual
Tragedy
Romance

trans lives matter

>>22260332
you are projecting so hard lol. people who live fulfilling lives don't freak out at people online over non-issues

>>22260149
modern
mystery
urban fantasy
drama
political
tragedy

>>22260336
Too many genres, confusion, falls flat in everything it tries, 1/10.

take all this trans seething to >>>/pol/ where it belongs

>>22260254
This wizard speaks far too modern. And if it's a comedy piece it's not that funny

>>22260149
litrpg
power fantasy
futanari erotica

>>22260149
Historical fiction
Romance
Bibliography

>>22260341
>>22260347
Trannies /RAUS/
You mistake my laughter for pity or anger.
I suggest pimozide to fix your broken mind.

>>22260344
see >>22260346
>>22260351
Disgusting/10
>>22260360
Has potential, could be between a 3/10 or 8/10, average as 5.5/10.

>>22260347
Trannoids aren't welcome on /lit/. Those are the rules, sorry.

so why does bringing up trans people make /wg/ 10x more active than usual?

>>22260350
thats because i didnt post all the buildup that leads to this scene
and the wizard is actually a homeless guy who wears a tinfoil hat

>>22260375
4chan is filled with antisocial autistic bigots. Or at best the alt-right. Please tell me you aren't surprised by this.

>>22260372
that's why I said to go to >>>/pol/ brainlet

>>22260368
Disgusting? Why are you insulting my creative vision? All perspectives are equally valid and no story isn't worth telling.

Wow /wg/ is really at an all time low rn

>>22260155
No. Not the orbits. The phases.

From the perspective of a person standing on the planet, the moons close to the sun will be slivers.The moons opposite the sun will be full. Each one will have its own cycle of phases, its own 'months'.

Anyone posting about "wow /lit/ has changed" has not been on this autistic site for more than 2 years, and only on special snowflake boards.
Grow up faggot, we all know trannies are mentally ill and it's only been the last 6-7 years that this bullshit has multiplied because of fucking chemicals disrupting hormones that have been exposed to pregnant women.

>>22260402
where do you think the phases come from...?

>>22260149
Meta-modern
Spiritual
Fantasy

>>22260389
It wasn't this general but I remember discussing the next novel I was planning to write. I hadn't even worked out how all the themes play out and some anon said something along the lines of "I hope you fail." Presumably because of the point of view and subject matter. I've gotten feedback on work and gotten relentlessly roasted over beliefs I don't even agree with, but they were the voice of a character in the scene and that's also, apparently, not okay.
I don't even write stories like they are editorials, I am not going to give a clear answer but even approaching answers people don't like make people freak out.

Science says I'm a woman, bigots.

>>22260422
go off Queen

writing talk: 1-2 posts an hour
trans shitposting: 20-30 an hour

you all are extremely ngmi

>>22260419
spiritual fantasy? Okay a woman wrote this 0/10. I don't read books by women.

>>22260422
go off Queef.

>>22260446
yeah I've been getting that turbo virgin energy from you, makes sense

>>22260420
>they were the voice of a character in the scene
In current year it's not okay to write characters with the "wrong" opinions unless you make sure they're the bad guys by having them be cartoonishly evil caricatures for other characters to knock over with their "right" opinions

>>22260446
Do you not know what spiritual lit is?

>>22260453
I'm married. Not listening to everything women say is something healthy men learn to do, even healthy women.
>>22260458
I'm certain you're about to tell me anyways.

>>22260453
Your vagina worship is not a personality, nor a virtue

>>22260464
>I'm certain you're about to tell me anyways.
Perhaps you've heard of Hermann Hesse?

>>22260455
How can you even write literature if readers only tolerate a story like it's a newspaper? You can't. That's by design of course.

>>22260484
Yes I have heard of Hermann Hesse. A fat IT worker I have seen keeps the glass bead game at his desk, though I knew him from Steppenwolf

Seems like a sucky time to be a writer...
https://deadline.com/2023/07/writers-strike-hollywood-studios-deal-fight-wga-actors-1235434335/
Just another argument for self-publishing, I guess.

>>22260514
Those are the same people who have been turning out woke shit and marvel capeshit the last few years.
They deserve to end the strike with lower wages and restricted privileges.

>>22260514
I'm not a screenwriter and I'm not in a union either.

>>22260534
>>22260547
Yeah, I have no sympathy for anyone in Hollywoke either.
Maybe people will go back to reading books and forget about Hollywood-produced "content".
I can dream.

>>22260514
Worthless "writers". You can't go on a strike if you don't do anything useful. They should keep 10% and do everything else with AI.

>>22260422
crazy because women never have to defend their womanhood and get validation over it from guys on 4chan

I see the trannies have left, now /wg/ is controlled by healthy men. What shall we discuss now? Perhaps chapter divisions, titling, or maybe how to write a character so wildly different from one's own self.

>>22260614
Let's do titling. Should I use a line from the end for the title drop?

>>22260514
These people made, on average, 260k a year. So no, it's not an argument for self publishing lmao.

>>22260614
write what you know

>>22260557
>don't do anything useful
Yeah we found out how easily replaceable they were in 09 when every show tanked in quality and we got an unprecedented rash of cancellations because even the dross that fills the world now is discerning enough to know real dogshit writing when they see it.
A talent you apparently do not posses, since you reccomend replacing them with current LLM.

>>22260620
>260k a year
then they should be able to stay on strike for a long time
i hope they strike for years

>>22260672
There are a few shows I like, so I hope not.
Also 260k ain't years of living in this economy, certainly not in California's this economy.

can't come up with an opening sentence. i know the floodgates will open once i overcome this single sentence

>>22260850
"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times..."

>>22260850
You know you can just life openings wholesale right.
Just lift entire passages, if they fit. You do read enough to have a catalogue of workable openings, right?

>>22260850
It was a clear black night, a clear white moon
I was on the streets trying to look for some pussy for the evening so I can release some spunk.

>>22260850
It doesn't matter what it is as long as it confusesthe reader enough to continue

>>22260850
my feet hurt

>>22260850
He grunted as he spent himself in the toilet and on the wall, as he did every morning to clear his waking grog.

>>22260850
that gods damned frog was at it again

>>22260850
I licked the blood off my blade. “Heh,” I chuckled, “tastes like pussy.”

Jesus Christ, Buddha, The Prophet Muhammad, and Mahatma Gandhi all laid at my feet, dead. The crime? If I were to write em down we’d be here all day. The punishment? Total annihilation.

I smirked to myself. The age of reason had begun.

>>22260850
I hate it when authors try to wow you with the Most Awesome First Line Ever™. The result is almost always embarrassing cringe and completely senseless at worst. Don't be pretentious, just get straight into business. Japanese authors (real literature not light novels) seem to be the only ones who get it right. They start the story where it starts, no bullshit.

>>22259987

>Easy mode
The moons are evenly spaced and small. Minimal tidal effect, people get to enjoy nice lights every night under a romantic fantasy setting.

>Hard mode
Once every xxx years, the moons cluster close together and cause a massive deluge with their combined gravitational pull that wipes out all land-based life forms.

>Nightmare mode
The moons all have irregular orbits and knock each other here and there like pachinko balls, while the debris rains down on the planet. It's only a matter of time before one comes down.

>>22261278
You have to grab the attention of editors/agents/publishers so they pull your book off the slush pile. It's not really for readers who have already bought the book

>>22261318
You grab attention by telling a compelling story starting from page one, not with one detached, pompous, fakeass one-liner. You're more likely to get them to drop you if that one line doesn't please them. It's not a gamble worth taking.

>>22261325
You may be right, but that is not the common wisdom. Thus goofy opening lines.

>>22261209
>Buddha [...] all laid at my feet
Will teach that fuck to walk your road.

>>22261338
I advise /wg/ to be smarter. The most compelling openers are those that bring you into the story with minimal friction and tricks. Think "Call me Ishmael." The most common, basicass introduction in existence, and one of the most iconic lines ever written. It tells you "let's get this trivial matter of my identity quickly out of the way" and it tells so much about the character's identity already.

I saw some new american novel in the bookstore the other day. The first line was something like, "Last time I went to a funeral, I broke an arm". I could vividly see the author winking, saying "you must be wondering how that happened huh!?" No, I put the book away. Because I know it's all bullshit made up to hook me, by someone who would sell their grandmother if made them famous.

>>22261358
Counter point: if this shit works to sell its not so bad

>>22261378
Does it? Book sales are declining all over the world. The harder writers try to sell, the less people are interested. It's almost like there's a correlation...

What makes for good character development?

>>22261542
The feels. It's the most important part. Let your character have a moment of greatness or acceptance.

>>22261542
A character does NOT have to develop. This is a pitfall.
There can be static characters. There can be even static main characters. Character development is NOT necessary to a story.

However, character development is a great way to get people to relate to and like a character.
I think static main character + supporting developing character is best combo.

>>22261209
Switch out blade with katana and this is perfect

>>22261409
Your original point is good. A classic, even, if people still remember CRASH. It’s one of those common wisdoms that lead new writers to dreadful contrivances.
But book sales are good. Honestly, for all the whining about the decline of literature, cinema and tv are doing a hell of a lot worse. Book sales are up a lot since the 2010s. And that’s not even including ebooks and audiobooks

>>22261542
Have a character. Put that beast in a situation. Now, what’s he doin about all that there? Repeat.

>>22261409
I have heard about tradpublished authors having the first sentence changed or cut without anyone telling the author. Got published that way. Beyond fucked up.
But let's be real, you can't please everyone. After the first 13 lines is when most people decide if they want to continue.

How's my blurb?

>After his team disappears from the forest, Jack embarks on a mission to find them. A single clue propels him on a quest evolving from a simple missing persons case into a far larger conspiracy, where he discovers someone is turning humans into monsters. But who could have this knowledge? How did they do it? And more importantly, why? As he unravels the mystery, he finds the culprit to be much closer to him than he realized.

I am dargon and fight he knight want to eat orincess murder king.

>>22262454
Amazing post-modern flash-fiction protagonist reversal piece of literary genius, stunning prose.

>>22262454
Written in crayon?

>>22255473
143k words now. I'm hitting 1k a day apparently, that's nice. Consistensy is nice.

>>22262260
Way too long, cut it down to 15 words or less.

The love interest was raised since birth to be a potential human sacrifice. Her entire family was, actually.
They apparently had this ancestor who was an absolutely top tier priestess-queen. But she was sacrificed by the Villain for...well, to make himself "immortal" in a really depraved sense.

But now he wants to commit to another human sacrifice, and so has been raising that family line for thousands of years to produce another A-Grade girl to burn alive as an offering to the Dark Lord.

I was wondering whether there's a good example of such a character who is initially *fine* with being sacrificed because she's a selfless, naive person, but later demurs after getting a taste of what life is like.

Any tips for that?

How to write literary fiction rather than genre fiction? Most posts ITT seem to be for fantasy settings

>>22262772
Don't bother nobody reads it

>>22262772
What specifically are you wondering about?

>>22262772
First, accept you'll die unrecognized and penniless.
Second, remove your bottom two ribs so you can suck your own cock, because that's essentially what you're doing if you're a 25 year old with no meaningful life experience trying to write "literature".
Thirdly, post constantly on /wg/ about how "at least you're not writing genre fiction" and therefore your writing is better, despite having zero technical skill and nothing meaningful to say.
Yeah, that sums it up. Good luck anon

>>22262772
Take yourself very seriously. Remove plot. Remove fun. Probe psychology of an intensely boring person. Turn prose into almost-poetry.

>>22262802
Love this post

>>22262772
I'm writing one right now. Set in a fictional country but real world after a lot of bad stuff happened.

22262789
Like where to start. Genre fiction basically have templates you can follow, lit fiction is more free form and experimental by its nature so it's harder to get into. Is it just a case of aping the styles and plots of my favorite authors until I develop my own voice?
>>22262802
>you're a 25 year old with no meaningful life experience trying to write "literature".
Thomas Mann wrote Buddenbrooks when he was 25 and that's a literary classic. John Keats was 25 when he died. DFW's first novel was published im his 20s, John Williams first was when he was 22 iirc. If you write something good Age is irrelevant

>>22262772
You now understand why everyone ITT writes genre. Because genrefags who’ve made no money and earned no worthwhile recognition from their craft have a massive inferiority complex surrounding literary fiction.
It’s very embarrassing. They’ve basically accepted their lack of skill and instead of being secure in their decision they feel the need to lash out constantly at those who make a different decision or look down on theirs.
You know the trick to literary fiction. Read a ton, write with intention. Imitate with care. Understand what’s being said and how these things are constructed by reading criticism, if you like.
I’ve “made” more from my efforts as a litfic writer than everyone ITT and all my portfolio was was a few dressed up noir pieces.
It’s funny that the only financial success from /wg/ is that Trailer Trash guy, also the only person on royal road trying to write litfic.
But heed the words of the losers above me, a life of suicidal ideation and poverty awaits those who pursue the literary lifestyle. Write genre, like them, and lead the same life, except with the near constant rage at those with higher aims.

>>22261542
I don't know if I am doing it right, but my characters don't exactly develop. Instead they drop their facade. Like a character is seemingly motivated by one thing, but under intense pressure, it becomes obvious that all along he was motivated by something entirely different. Basically it's the pressure of the situation, which makes characters to show who they really are, instead of what they want to be perceived as.

>>22262891
>Basically it's the pressure of the situation, which makes characters to show who they really are, instead of what they want to be perceived as.
That's character development retard.

>>22262888
What did you write?

>>22262888
>But heed the words of the losers above me, a life of suicidal ideation and poverty awaits those who pursue the literary lifestyle.
Looks like I'm the right man for the job.

>>22262910
A bunch of shit. Solidly in the noir/weird fiction realm. No New Yorker stuff, there’s space for straight and mundane realist fiction but i ain’t in it, rather nearer to Tin House/ Barrel House Magazine.

Not giving you names! But I’ll probably publish something with one of the local presses cuz the /lit/ renaissance shit gets my cock hard despite the eternal crabs on /wg/ that treat litfic gatekeepers like their stepdad

I write what I want and make it as literary as I want without knowing or caring whether it counts as litfic
Then I put it up online for free under a pseudonym or with no name at all and a couple of people read it and leave nice comments
Livin' the dream

>>22262868
That is a genre.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruritanian_romance

Whats ridiculous is the reflexive “nobody reads it” about litfic. You people write fantasy and scifi. This shit does not sell better than literary fiction. The best sellers in fantasy are all old books. New writers have a bitch of a time puncturing that noise without very strong backing, and even then, John Scalzi’s latest sold less than something like Demon Copperhead.
Literary fiction is actually the third best selling genre after mystery/Thriller, and Romance, genres nobody here really touches.
The problem you guys have with litfic isn’t that it doesn’t sell, it’s that you can’t sell it. You don’t trust yourself to get past gatekeepers and litfic readers don’t bite on selfpublished books. So you roll up the tent without even really trying, then poison the well for young writers with actual ambitions. Get over yourselves

Bottom line, writing is very unlikely to make you a dollar. If you’re real good, it’s still very unlikely to make you 5 thousand dollars. Just write something, whatever.

>>22262942
Litfic is also a genre. Don't let the homonym trip you up

>>22262888
You've made more from a few noir pieces than Trailer Trash anon? How is that possible? He's made in the range of 100s of thousands, hasn't he?

>>22262946
Modern litfic doesn't sell even in the 1% range of romance, fantasy, thriller, etc. What are you on about?

>>22262950
Nah, the second statement came as an aside, and I didn’t update the first. I’m not making what that guy gets from patreon/book sales, not even close, I don’t think.
Wager a comfortable second place unless we’ve got an undercover big in this general.

Litfic is as clear a path to riches as any other non romance genre. Which is to say that it isn’t, at all. Even Mystery/Thriller is propped up by genre staples.

>>22262942
While this sounds very familiar to both of my things, it's not quite cigar. Interesting to learn about this though.

Do any of you who post your work in here worry that someone else will steal your ideas and style?

Also what do you guys use to type out your work? Who uses a pen and paper to write their actual manuscripts?

>>22262964
There's definitely another royalroad author who makes a salary with his writing. Also I'm pretty sure I remember some erotica anon who's made 4 digit $ with his writing, so it depends on how much you've earned to decide where you stand

>>22262987
More than 4 digits. This is from a fellowship.

:(

I made only $130.

>>22262946
This.

>>22262976
>Do any of you who post your work in here worry that someone else will steal your ideas and style?
No. Ideas are cheap and there aren't so many possible styles that mine is very unique. Execution is the challenge.
When you have an idea burning through your skull you should channel that passion and demonstrate it to your reader, but don't mistake it for something that people are eager to take from you before it's given form.
>Also what do you guys use to type out your work? Who uses a pen and paper to write their actual manuscripts?
I type into Emacs with org-mode or markdown. About the right amount of formatting options and organization for my taste. (Emacs was designed forty years ago for programming so maybe don't imitate this. It doesn't really matter what you use as long as it gets out of your way.)
Sometimes I take a ballpoint and notepad with me on walks and transcribe when I get home. Filling up the small pages is satisfying.

>Writing Isekai slop because "It's easy"
>Whole week writing and rewriting multiple hours per day to produce one short chapter
It gets easier with practice, right?

>>22263020
Why ever write in a genre because it’s easy and not because a real passion for that sort of literature stirs in you a need to contribute to it?
Who stole you people’s souls?

>>22263026
Well I write isekai slop because I think it's fun both to read and write. Is that better or worse?

>>22263018
>Ideas are cheap and there aren't so many possible styles that mine is very unique
I suppose what I mean is does it ever cause concern that a specific passage or even plotline and characters get lifted and someone publishes it, perhaps without you ever even knowing?
>Filling up the small pages is satisfying.
Love that for you. Thanks gang

>>22263026
>Muh passion
>Muh soul
I want to make some cash.
Also Isekai slop is fun, unfortunately most if it is shit and I think the world deserves quality slop.

>write draft of a poem without rhythm or meter
>barely manage 100 words a day
>write the same thing in careful precise prose
>efortleslly writing 300+ words every hour of writing

Why is that?

>>22263083
I actually don't know how long I was doing it, probably more like 200 words per hour

>>22263059
>i want to make some cash
Cap
This thread is a graveyard of ambitions like yours
If you wanted easy cash you’d write a cozy romance under a feminine pseudonym.
You write isekai because you think the audience isn’t discerning enough to notice your meager ability. Of course, they always are. Nobody’s picky like a man who only eats McDonald’s

>>22263054
I think the risk of this is near-nil and if it did happen then it'd be flattering if anything.
Writing is low-stakes for me. But even if you do hope to make it big I suspect that this is a healthy attitude if you can stomach it.

>>22263095
> Nobody's picky like a man who only eats McDonald's
Thank you for articulating something I couldn't ever properly put into words. For all that RoyalRoad-style fiction is trash, breaking into it and becoming popular is pretty hard. They're picky as hell. You almost have to be born in the swamps to properly understand them--and to write something they'll like.

>>22263020
Isekai IS famously easy to write though. You just have the MC explore around, learn stuff about the world, and drip feed level up + loot + other progression aspects. Have a few 'big events' you slowly work toward in each book. What's the difficulty you're facing?
t. writes popular slop

>>22262888
No you didn't.

>>22263136
NTA. I agree. But after the first book or X number of chapters, it's basically just normal fantasy. Then it needs solid plot and world building and characters. That's why a lot of them fizzle out.

>>22263147
>after the first book or X number of chapters, it's basically just normal fantasy.
This is a good point and I wonder why they don't just write normal fantasy in that case. I guess you can make an argument that having a fish out of water protagonist allows you to explain concepts about the world more easily, but it just seems lazy, whatever happened to the apprentice archetype as the protagonist to do the same thing?

>>22263147
Well, yes, but adventure style isekai is much easier to introduce world building elements and characters. As for plot, you honestly don't need much of one beyond 'get stronger and fight the villain of the month'. You can even brand it 'slice of life' and basically have no plot at all (and some of these are extremely popular).
But yeah, it's still a long-running piece of fiction, so doing all of that in a way that still holds attention can be hard, but I'd say much easier than the typical novel. All writing is hard, but isekai is easier than usual

>>22263095
>If you wanted easy cash you’d write a cozy romance under a feminine pseudonym.
I want to do that. What should my feminine pseudonym be?

>>22263172
Anita Dyck

>>22263095
Romance has the same issue as isekai, doesn't it? It has a million strict conventions and expectations that only avid readers of the genre know. Writing something as an outsider is unlikely to do well.

>>22263138
I have, but I used air quotes around made because my earnings come from a fellowship and not book sales, but coming by money from your writing is all the same I figure

>>22263231
IDK anon, obviously it's an accomplishment and says something about your writing, but it's definitely different than making $25k in sales. It's like in business, earning an investment from a millionaire compared to actually making the product and succeeding with it

>>22263203
Absolutely, but the key difference is that you make money every time someone tries you out, and like Isekai readers romance readers have an insane appetite for the genre.
Trying to grift isekai is silly because you’re not going to make a dime until you’re already semi popular.

>>22259987
depends on the size of your planet and distance of said moons, I'm sure you could ask some autists on a science reddit and they can imagine it for you

>>22263241
that’s business these days anyhow, trying to convince people to throw money at your potential for years and years with no expectations of profit on the horizon.
Also, when you tradpub and they give you an advance, that sum isn’t tied to sales either. If they don’t turn a profit you don’t see a dime in royalties, but that’s money in your pocket regardless.

>>22259865
I get this yeah, sometimes I'm writing something and wondering what I'm saying vs. what the story comes to say if that makes sense, like I only line up the dominos

>>22259865
Just had the same experience. Didn’t even have a picture of a story until I was 4000 words in. Means of a 7200 word draft, at least 3k is getting tossed

>>22262976
>your ideas
Yes.
>style
No.

It would be a shame if some cocksucker just nabbed my idea and wrote some slop faster so he could sue if I wrote my idea slower. I don't care if someone rips my style off, imitation is the highest form of praise.

>>22260850
Once upon a time

>>22263288
>nabbed my idea and wrote some slop faster so he could sue if I wrote my idea slower.
Ideas can't be copyrighted.

>>22262976
I will post and shill my freely accessible work here and even give everyone advice if they like tweet "thanks for advice anon" for me. Like you people can understand what goes into a single piece I write, it's not a fucking silly idea you can copy.

Asked this on /sffg/ but I figure I'd ask here too:
Does anyone here read/write fiction on Substack? Was considering posting a serial on there but wasn't sure. There seems to be a few SFF writers on there but I don't know if anyone outside Substack actually reads them.

>>22260850
"As soon as I shove this hot poker up my ass, I'm going to rip my dick off!" the pope exclaimed to a stunned room full of archbishops.
>>22261906
weeb
>>22263172
Breasty McLargeHuge

>>22263242
Eh, I don't know if this is true anon. There's lots of tiny serials on RoyalRoad that have like 1-10 patreon subs, meaning 50-100$ a month. That's the profit you could expect from an unsuccessful romance novel as well. I guess you're right that even the most shit romance book will make a few sales, whereas the worst/most unknown serials will have 0 patrons, but I think the average case between the two genres is similar.

>>22263560
I don't read serials there, but I looked at the leaderboard and it seemed there's a few well earning ones on the site. Though I don't think it's the smart path to take. Why not RR + Patreon, the tried and true serial site? What genre are you writing in? If it's not RR-compatible, why not take the standard self-pub path, which is to say, write a book and pub it on Amazon and advertise it? I think substack is for people with existing audiences, not people trying to make one. But I'm no expert obviously. Just my thoughts

>>22263642
Honestly he won’t burn the Amazon self pub path by trying to serialize it first. No reason to pin yourself down, especially given that self pub is not only a grind in terms of making money, but also being heard. Even most of the writers here get like 50k views on royal road. The 60th percentile case on Amazon self pub is two people you know by name by your book and it otherwise moved no copies and nobody sees it.

>>22263676
Yeah, I agree. I would recommend RR if he's trying to serialize a genre compatible with the site. Substack might not be good in any situation, though, if you're just starting out. And yeah, serialization doesn't burn the option of Amazon self pub, but it would ruin any chance at tradpub, and some genres have tradpub as their best bet. It's why I asked his genre.

What is your opinion on chronogically ordered chapters?

My pickle is as follows: My novel is based around 2 characters' POVs, taking turns (with two exceptions), based on the events within the story. For example:


>Chapter 5 - June 1st, Morning: Character B leads an investigation about a murder, and a potential informant shows up to meet him.
>Chapter 6 - Same day, Morning: Character A goes to meet with a potential ally, where he gets told to fuck off, with one of his previous transgressions coming back to bite him in the ass
>Chapter 7 - Same day, night: Character B sneaks inside a party where the murderer can be potentially caught
>Chapter 8 - Same day, noon/afternoon: Character A meets with a drug kingpin who agrees to support his cause

Obviously, Chapter 8 will be read after Chapter 7, but takes place earlier in the story (a few hours within the same day) than the one after it. Is it really bothersome when the events of both chapters are unrelated to each other? It's not like knowing what happens in Chapter 7 ruins the reader's suspense in Chapter 8 by having the characters act oblivious to something the reader knows happened after that chapter occured.

>>22263676
I only got 5k views on RR

>the magic system that I just had the idea for basically has the sole purpose of letting me slide as much taboo sexual subtext under the radar as possible

>>22263884
yeah saying the average RR writer here (or anywhere) gets 50k views is insane.

>>22263922
Is it? I suck and my shitty isekai got up to, like, 500k.

>>22263982
How many hours did you put into that? As in hours of planning and writing? Why do you call yours bad?

>>22263806
I write both fantasy and scifi. Plus I write short stories and I'm not sure if RR is a good place to post them. I see a few short story authors on substack though, but again, not sure how visible it is outside substack.
>>22263676
If there was enough interest in a serial, I'd compile it into an ebook or paperback or something when it's done and throw it on amazon too. I figure that would appeal to people who'd prefer to read it all at once instead of waiting between each chapter.

>>22263296
They can be butchered and you can be sued by some mentally deficient wretch waiting for the chance.
See: LOTR lawlsuit

So i have this idea for a post apocalyptic world some 500 years from today and the serbs are the rome LARPers.
I was thinking of making up some schizotier geneological tree linking a random macedonian dude in 2400 who called himself emperor of rome to Alexander the great and the Palaelogoi, is this even doable? would it be reasonable for a society 500 years post collapse to even be able to scrounge up something like that? I do have this idea for weird internet priests who hoard all data they find and share it with the world, but then again that invites too much current-times nonesense but i mean oral tradition can get pretty wacky if you give it enough time and randos can ride on it and i mean come on the arms is obviously copying the four-betas and i can see some randomass nigga making the connection and convincing everyone else.

>>22264246
The fun of post-post apoc is that the modern day is ancient time to them. So it should be some guy claiming to be the Emperor of NATO or something crazy like that. Pulling ancient history from what's already ancient history is sort of boring.

>>22264292
i don't believe in modern symbols, thing is anon, europe always revolves around the ancient past that can never be forgotten, we always default to something so much older, plus modern anything fucking SUCKS ASS with symbolism and secularism is for faggots.

>>22264246
sounds like an unoriginal Fallout New Vegas rip off no matter how you spin it

>>22264351
more like wh40k

>>22263999
Many hours writing, zero planning. It was for nano write month, so it was done in a mad frenzy. It sucked because it meandered off into pointlessness because I hadn't outlined plot, story beats, character goals, etc.

>>22264395
Considering how my writing output has been this year and that I can just make a different pen name for a serialized fantasy, I think I should give it a shot. I think I am tempted to try too hard and go as full into it as I do my other stories. But I really want an excuse to pick up an incredibly detailed plot and magic system I made last year.

Baked Bread
>>22264634
>>22264634
>>22264634

>>22263164
>I guess you can make an argument that having a fish out of water protagonist allows you to explain concepts about the world more easily
I don't get this either because with an nth of imagination you could just say the protagonist is a bumfuck hick, a traveler from some distant land, or even an extremely sheltered noble and boom, you've got a fish of water protagonist learning how the setting works

>>22264351
and?

>>22259701
Neat. Not sure what sort of thing you might be looking for re feedback tho? What were some of the ideas behind this piece, is it part of a larger narrative, or simply a sample, is the last line the title, or a reflection made by one of the characters within the narrative, etc? Thank you for sharing, though, anon :)