/lit/ - Literature

>>22244925
I've been reading a lot of Shakespeare lately. He really is the GOAT. I cant say I have a favorite play really but I have memorized the 'tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow' soliloquy and 'to be or not to be'
Shakespeare is so sublime its hard to even comprehend. The only other writer who gave me that feeling is walt Whitman.

What’s a good place to start?

>>22244925
>Favorite sonnet?
75, "So are you to my thoughts as food to life"
Just such a lovely depiction of the joy and pain in the possessiveness of love.

>Favorite play?
I won't claim it's nearly the best, but I do love As You Like It, partly because I love pastoral in general and partly because it has such great passages and characters like Rosalind and Jaques.

>Favorite character overall?
Hamlet, of course. A linguistic whirlwind and a universal character. Like every other reader of Hamlet I feel he is myself.

>>22244955
Macbeth is a good one to start with, one of his shortest and most straightforward plays, but also one of his most famous and counted among the Four Great Tragedies.

>>22244955
tempest

I like Macbeth the best

>>22244925
good thread OP
>favorite sonnet?
gotta be 135:
Whoever hath her wish, thou hast thy Will,
And Will to boot, and Will in overplus;
More than enough am I that vex thee still,
To thy sweet will making addition thus.
Wilt thou, whose will is large and spacious,
Not once vouchsafe to hide my will in thine?
Shall will in others seem right gracious,
And in my will no fair acceptance shine?
The sea, all water, yet receives rain still,
And in abundance addeth to his store;
So thou being rich in Will add to thy Will
One will of mine, to make thy large Will more.
Let no unkind, no fair beseechers kill;
Think all but one, and me in that one Will.
>favorite play?
Midsummer, or Henry IV part 1
>favorite character overall?
Gotta be Falstaff, right? Gotta be.

I need to get back into Shakespeare. I haven't cracked my Riverside in over a year. I've read almost all the plays but I'm not conversant with him in the way that I'd like to be, you know?

>>22244955
either Macbeth (shortest, clearest plot) or Midsummer (easiest language) are good starting places. get a copy of picrel if you can, it's the best one-volume introduction to shakespeare scholarship you can get your hands on. essays on each play, suggestions for further reading, introduction situating shakespeare in his time, recommended film versions, truly a blessing.
>editions?
you didn't ask but I'll let you know anyway; for your first read-through it really doesn't matter as long as you read the damn thing.
>https://www.waggish.org/critical-editions-of-shakespeare/
has excellent recommendations; generally, either the Oxford or the Arden are the best editions, but if you can't get your hands on them, Folger works perfectly fine too. they're meant for high schoolers so they're light on the scholarly apparatus and just gloss when absolutely necessary. if you get a No Fear Shakespeare you're a retard and a cuck

>>22244925
This pic is my favourite version of Shakespeare. He looks like he can fuck somebody up in a bar fight.

>>22244925
I'll go Lucrece in lieu of a sonnet
Play: toss up between Othello and Measure, a tragic comedy, a comic tragedy. The former just may be Shakespeare's prettiest
Character: perhaps Enobarbus- may this not be a fateful choice!
Female character: in lieu of Rosalind, Portia..

>>22244925
ive been slowly reading through shakespeare chronologically and i gotta say so far my favourite character is lord talbot from henry vi part i. man the scenes where hes talking back and forth with his son john about loyalty and heritage and shit is so fucking tight. god DAMN lord talbot was a fucking g

>>22245029
>>22245047
>>22245084
Thanks anons, cheers

>>22244925
Some excerpts from Cosima Wagner's diaries about Hamlet:

>At breakfast we talk about Hamlet, and R. says he is convinced that after the appearance of the ghost Hamlet is completely mad, not that he feigns madness, but has really become so.

>After lunch, when he is crushing out his cigarette and making sure it is extinguished, he thinks of Othello and Desdemona [...]. Beyond words—also as drama; Hamlet, through the nature of its material, weakly based in comparison, R. remarks, it tends to lose itself in length; not killing [Claudius] because he is at prayer, making the journey to England—these are dramatically almost embarrassing, though entirely necessary for displaying character.

>Then he talks about actors, who put everything into words, and he thinks of the terrible meaning this free speaking acquires in the figure of Hamlet. He remarked how foolish it was to ascribe a general philosophical meaning to his “To be or not to be”—it was just Hamlet speaking.

>Then he wishes to talk of other things, he brings up “To be or not to be” and says it cannot be spoken too morbidly, indeed even sentimentally—it is a brooding, an outpouring, to which it is foolish to ascribe any philosophical meaning.

>>22245029
Based response

Anons plz recc best Shakespeare love poems, I’m infatuated with a girl and have accidentally committed to memory ‘let me not to the marriage of true minds’

>>22245274
>Then he talks about actors, who put everything into words, and he thinks of the terrible meaning this free speaking acquires in the figure of Hamlet. He remarked how foolish it was to ascribe a general philosophical meaning to his “To be or not to be”—it was just Hamlet speaking.
brainlet

>>22244925
TITUS.

>>22245320
>TITUS
>T I T U S
>T I T S
>TITS
TITS

>>22245344
I would cut your tits off and feed them to you like a blancmange.

>>22245320
>titus andronicus
Meme play that not a single person who likes Shakespeare rates as their favourite

To be or not to be, that is the question?

>>22244925
>read Shakespeare's plays normally
>don't have a clue what's going on
>read them aloud
>understand everything
Is that normal

>>22245318
Which part?

>>22246854
No, you should see a doctor. You are seriously ill.

>>22246854
Yes, most people have a quick change from Shakespeare sounding like a foreign language to understanding him almost completely.

>>22247673
The part that I quoted

>>22244925
>Favorite play?
Coriolanus
>Favorite character?
probably Feste from 12th night

bump

>>22245092
based. pirate mode Bill looks awesome

>>22245274
Wager got filtered by hamlet, wow. ESL dogs will never understand Shakespeare

>>22244925

I just read a minor play and discussed it with mom over a few e-mails over the last few weeks, in preparation for a local community theater production/my summer vacation. She'd already listened to it as an audio book once, and I wrote her very detailed notes with my own take on things, which she ended up appreciating. We then saw the performance and they did a fine job with it, I give it a B average, maybe B-. Good, not great, I was entertained, would go again. I liked it enough that I think I'd like to go to another one next year if she wants, it's a nice activity to do with mom and I enjoyed how I approached it (read the thing, understand it, make your own notes/observations, then take in a performance and see what they do with it). I "understand" the play fairly well now.

There was a black lady in the cast, she did a decent job of pivoting from a dramatic character to a comedic one. She got slightly "black" with the comedic character but I honestly didn't find it too distracting, the point of the character was to be a lower class type with some levity/comic relief anyway, so it worked okay for the role. She played the dramatic role much more straight, which was called for in that half.

The prop usage was also interesting. Just a few large chests in the actors' volume (serving as boxes to store other props/costumes). Otherwise, the large chests became plinths on which statues might stand, a courtroom's witness dock, the king's throne, etc. Much of the costume changing was occuring rapidly backstage. Everyone was on point and hit all their cues and lines in quick succession. It was a competent, studied, professional company. Still, they eschewed swords (just fine to aid safety), indicated in the comic half with little sound effects and miming that worked just fine.

I even made up a chart detailing the relationships between the characters. The playbill had an insert that was pretty much the exact same thing that I had spontaneously come up with myself, down to general position of characters on the diagram, minor nobles at center left of page, main protagonist guy upper center-left, dashes connecting relationships/enemies/friendships etc. Gave me an excuse to crack my unread Omnibus.

Also, just before we left to see it, dad (who did not attend) said something VERY interesting and useful. He told me to pay attention to what they CUT OUT of the performance, saying that the average complete play would run someting like three-four hours and that most modern productions trim filler because that's just demanding too much of the audience. Sure enough, three or so very short, structurally unimportant scenes were excised, and other beats were truncated to convey essential information. A jail scene was condensed to about one minute of action in very dim light, all that was needed to convey the character's presence in a jail. Best of all, I understood all of this in real time while watching because my own reading of the play had been (somewhat) deep, recent, and stayed fairly fresh. The director/editor at work.

Reading the thing, taking notes and then watching a performance a short time later (like, less than a month later) is definitely the way to go.

>>22249012
>Reading the thing, taking notes and then watching a performance a short time later (like, less than a month later) is definitely the way to go.
absolutely. there's a certain pleasure in watching a play performed that you know well; I enjoy seeing how directors/actors emphasize or de-emphasize certain aspects of the script. for example, david tennant's hamlet employed an interesting device where much of the movie was shown through closed-circuit security cameras, stressing the paranoia/spying/seeing themes in the play.

>>22249018

Yep, as mom and I walked into the building they had a little tent outside to give the virgins/any desirous general publick a quick ten minute cliffs notes on what the hell is going on and what to expect. We didn't stay by it because we didn't need it, we were prepared.

Also the actors, being actors, did a fine job of being teary one minute and jocular in another, which (body language/tone of voice) is most of the communication needed. The lines become a sort of fine patter across the top and you can pick out essentials when needed if any given section should give confusion.

>>22249037
stop saying mom and dad you fucking creep. its 'my mom' or 'my dad'.

>>22247755
The entire quote?

>>22249096
the entire quote. god you're retarded

>>22245029
As You Like It is a based choice. Extremely comfy play.

I don't actually believe any of you really like Shakespeare. You guys are like the fags who turn their nose up at a good burger but appreciate and enjoy disgusting bullshit like caviar- just because it's fancy. Just be honest- you are pretentious fags. If Harry Potter was an obscure and underground series- you fags would be talking about how amazing and ahead of its time it is. You're just contrarian niggers.

>>22249163
not quite great bait, but good bait nonetheless

>>22249166
Pretending to like dogshit like Shakespeare isn't going to get you laid. If he was so great people would mimic his writing style- no one does- because it's incomprehensible dogshit

>>22249173
see now the quality of your bait's declining, you've gotta tone down the vitriol a little bit and just act simply confused. men love to explain things to people so if you come across as innocently flummoxed by shakespeare's popularity you'll get more of that sweet, sweet attention. not to say you can't use anger/hate in bait but it's gotta be tightly controlled

>>22244925
>sonnet
Nowadays the 113. It's been making sense to me.
>play
The tempest.
>character
Hamlet.

>>22249163
Actually, anon, good caviar (like really good dry champagne) is absolutely incredible. Just sayin'

>>22249060

Nothing wrong with my usages, they're normal in conversation with others. Your projections and insecurities are your problems, not mine.

>>22244925
I got filtered by The Taming of the Shrew and I dropped it. It is so confusing. I will now start Daniel Deronda by George Eliot.

>Favorite Play:
A Midsummer Night's Dream

>Favorite Character:
Falstaff

>>22249249
You're really triggered, go cry to mommy

>>22249308
you brought it up first, not him. sounds like you're the one who was triggered

>>22249314
pathetic samefagging

>>22249100
It's a big quote, with unrelated parts. You could be talking about any part of it. Kind of odd you describe the entirety with one adjective.

How come he never entered Pop Culture the way Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet have?

>>22244925
Favourite tragedy is Hamlet, favourite comedy is 12th Night, and for favourite history I'm just going to say the whole Henriad. Honorable mention to Midsummer Night's Dream and The Tempest for being my childhood favorites.

Also new question, what is your biggest performance pet peeve? Mine is probably over-miming joke punchlines. Like someone will make a dick or sex joke and the actor stands there humping the air for a solid 5 seconds just to make extra sure the audience understands.

After finally reading through Henry IV parts 1 and 2, I have come to the conclusion that Hal is a fucking sociopath. Makes it less fun to root for him in Henry V.

>>22244925
Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oxzvxHdDrw

>>22244955
This was for you....
>>22250452

>>22244925
Favourite sonnet
That one that ends
>from sullen earth, sings hymns at heaven's gate
Favourite play
Antony and Cleopatra (Shakespeare's pagan conception of love, sobering if you see the woman you're chasing as acting like Cleopatra.)
Best character
Hamlet
I have nothing to say other than he's the greatest Englishman. Long live the king.

Do I skip the character introductions?

>>22244925
>Favorite Sonnet
113 of course
>Favorite play
King Lear
>Favorite Character
Lear or Falstaff

>>22249173
kek

>>22247694
I knew it

>>22244925
King Lear. Me if the best things I’ve ever read. The Kings title holds him upon his position as a noose. The kingdom is not willing to allow him to descend. His madness is tragic. Beautiful play.
I love Macbeth as a character because he embodies the man plagued by sins against his own moral convictions. Tempted by the witches that dwell in our psyche is can destrey our ability to adhere to the light within us.

>>22248996

where do you live?

>>22250408
Hal is my favorite Shakespeare character. He IS a bit of a sociopath, but he channels it to achieve what he wants. He's basically Shakespeare's ubermensch. He makes use of, and learns from, every character he encounters: his father, Falstaff, even his enemies like Hotspur. Then he discards them when he's gotten what he wants from them. He's charismatic, motivational, a great leader and he knows exactly what he wants.

He's such a fascinating character. I like him even more than Hamlet.

>>22251100
Damn, good insight. I might have to try V again someday to see if it is almost readable through the lens that Henry is a huge fag full of empty bluster and the discards of other peoples‘ genuine character.

>>22250408
>>22251100
I think he's always clear to Falstaff and the boys that he's not really one of them. He doesn't lie to them outside context of the pranks. Its made clear that Falstaff is a fool for thinking he's getting preferment
Surely he's more sociopathic in Henry V where he starts a war for reasons he knows are pretty dubious
>for many a thousand widows
>Shall this his mock mock out of their dear husbands;
>Mock mothers from their sons, mock castles down;
>And some are yet ungotten and unborn
>That shall have cause to curse the Dauphin's scorn.
But that's just the violence inherent in the system, plus most of the dead are French

*sigh*

>>22249426
maybe it's because I think all of it is brainlet-tier. I know thinking is hard but you should try it

>>22249362
Nope, sorry. Better luck next time

>>22249362
>>22252264
whoops forgot the extended screenshot

Regardless; anybody seen Chimes at Midnight? Did you think it was a good adaptation?

>>22252264
wow I've really got mommas boy on the hook. that doesnt prove anything, I can use a VPN too. go ask dada for more ideas, idiot!

>>22244925
I've recently started to actually appreciate him thanks to his sonnets. Although my intake of Shakespeare is quite limited insofar, I'd say
>Favorite sonnet
130. My mistress's eyes are nothing like the sun
>Favorite play
I've only read Macbeth and the Merchant of Venice, and I despised the latter.
>Favorite character
Favorite as in most likeable? Bassanio
Favorite as in the one I find the most complex? Macbeth (Fuck Lady Macbeth)

>>22252281
alright man, take your meds. are you really that narcissistic that you hallucinate vpn nonsense rather than acknowledge that two separate people disagree with you? sad

>>22252529
You people can never just shut the fuck up can you? saying mom and dad is infantile and clearly you were molested as a child by your father.

for me its Julius Caesar

>>22250822

I prefer not to say, and likewise I omitted to mention exactly which play it was that we saw. If you really care I've given just enough information, both in the timing of my post and in the overall details of the play, that you could do legwork and make an educated guess as to your own question.

>>22244925
Open your Shakespeare collection to random page and throw your finger down randomly. You must use that phrase in the next 24 hours or your mother dies in her sleep in two days. If you don’t do this your mother and father will both die in their sleep tonight. If you don’t have a Shakespeare collection you must buy one

What phrase did you get?

>>22252764
>Oh, did you so? And do you remember what you said of the duke?
I'm ngmi

>>22252583
you don't have to keep replying, lmao. you started it shrug emoji. im sorry you're so bothered. but you will reply to this because you cannot resist it. such a strong resistance to the mere idea of parental figures suggests a stormy and troubled relationship with your own mother and father
>>22252764
"And fall thy edgeless sword; despair, and die!" from Richard III. huh. how am I gonna use this one

>>22252784
You are the one replying to obvious bait from a shitposter, its sad. You people are like pitbulls and just cant let go. It stems from your attachment issues with mom and daddy.

>>22252777
Just say it to a random cashier with a straight face and go from there
>>22252784
This is obviously said when you fail or struggle with something.

>>22252794
like I said
>but you will reply to this because you cannot resist it
but you might say
>I'm not him!
to which I say
>I don't care

>>22252262
I don't think you're capable of explaining what you think is brainlet about it. You were filtered.