/lit/ - Literature

>>22182827
no kind of grimdark should be more common

Space opera like Legend of the Galactic Heroes?

>>22182860
star wars *troll face*

What are some fantasy books with a genuine pantheon of Gods?
What about one with a good God and a bad God?
Is the system which Tolkien used very common? It seems hard to write a story knowing that Eru is above and controlling everything

First for more older women in fantasy/scifi novels

I wrote a fantasy novel. Wheres a good place to get some readers?

>>22182860
Are the books worth it? Wanted to read them after I saw the anime, but not sure how much more I'd get from them.

>>22182827
I'd always suggest Malazan Book of the Fallen for anyone who likes darker / more militaristic fantasy. Shit's good.

>>22183124
I haven't read them bc of this but from what I've gathered from people who have, is that it's notorious for being a largely poor translation.

>>22182990
Godbreaker trilogy by DJ Molles

noirbros we absolutely won

>>22182827
It's been a while since I read Bakker but I'm pretty sure there were dragon in the second set of books. Mimara fighting a dragon?

>>22182827
>Grimdark with dragons should be more common
We bring up Bakker every thread though

>>22183100
Polgara is such a cunt.
Most of Eddings' major female characters are overbearing ballbusters to some extent but Polgara is just totally unlikable.

>>22183117
post a summary and i'll tell you if you fucked up.

/SFFG/ Recommendations:

Read Reverend Insanity, Lord of The Mysteries, Neuromancer, Hyperion, The Prince of Nothing

Also read The Wandering Inn, Between Two Fires, Mother of Learning, Cradle, I Shall Seal the Heavens, A Song of Ice and Fire, The Poppy War.

/SFFG/ Recommendations: LITRPG Edition

Read Azarinth Healer, Primal Hunter, He Who Fights with Monsters, Dungeon Crawler Carl

Also read System Universe, Dissonance, Defiance of the Fall, Iron Prince.

>>22183401
I'm sure I already did.

Does anyone else read utopian literature?

>>22183840
Nope, Thomas More is burning in hell and I don't want to give him any consolation by reading his work or anything inspired by it.

>>22183840
Yep, I've gon into it recently, mostly H.G. Wells ad Huxley's Island. Interesting books, especially those of Wells that are more attractive and you can see parallels between his style of thinking and modern trasnhumanists. The history makes a circle.

Truly a literally masterpiece.

I've 4-6 chapters left in Mage Errant #7 and that dude talking about the formulaic writing style of the author was spot on: The "person/thing is in danger or a tricky spot but wh0a0a0a0a0a let's jot down a numerical list of all the subversive surprises in which they can find a solution to this tricky situation ;)))" outright makes me fucking laugh once it starts. This shit pops up all over the place, granted this IS the finale but it is absolutely unintentionally hilarious.
Uhhhh don't mind this on-topic post of mine UGH I'M SHITTING AND FARTING roflmao go back to your regularly scheduled Saturday morning cartoons, kids :)

Want to beta read my webnovel?

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/67568/a-knight-of-valora-serenity

>>22184570
you changed anything from the last time you shilled it here?

>>22184732
Yes, rewrote the entire first chapter, clarified some of the lore, moved shit around, and rewrote the blurb. Hopefully things gotten better

>>22184453
idk how people can suffer Mage Errant. I read the first book and it was...bad. Not terrible, but short, rushed, structurally weird, unimaginative and generic. Platonic ideal of 4/10 book.

>>22184570
Is it softcore?
Would prefer yuri elements regardless

Sabriel... my wife...

I live for this shit.

>>22184570
what's beta about it, written by a betafag?

>>22185310
This. Real chads only read alpha versions of stories.

Cinn

>>22183124
nta. As someone who has watched both everything from the old version and the new version and read the books I can say that you won't get much more from them. The translation is mediocre at best and has a lot of errors. Even so, nostalgia and my love of the series won out, but I wouldn't recommend them. You could try watching his other space opera series, Tytania. It isn't anywhere as good, though I think it's worth watching. His other works has been adapted as well.

Why don't you faggots ever talk about CJ Cherryh? Frank Herbert level worldbuilding and characters while being nearly as prolific as the rando fantasy serial shitters.

>>22182827
Carl's Doomsday Scenario, Dungeon Crawler Carl #2 - Matt Dinniman (2021)

I'm pleased that the second book is at least as enjoyable as the first. It's amazing how absurdly fun it is. I have negligible problems with the humor now. I don't know whether that's because I acclimatized and/or because it aligns more with my preferences. I still don't know whether this series can be recommended widely as requires experience in various forms of gaming to fully appreciate it. Maybe that matters less than I think it does though.

This floor is an open world RPG type. The focus is on the town and quests. I was reminded of a variety of games such as Baldur's Gate II, Dragon Age, Skyrim, Final Fantasy XI(V), Dragon Quest, and various others. It's delightful how much it plays with RPG conventions and tropes. There's a lot of other pop culture and memes that I didn't mind at all that in other books I may have.

I was mostly indifferent to Princess Donut in the first book, but now I'm lukewarm. She serves her narrative role well and mitigates other concerns. However, judging by the banner image on Dinniman's twitter account some people have unfortunate ideas regardless, which can't be helped. I'm leaning towards dislike of Mongo. I haven't read enough about the new character to have an opinion yet.

I'll be finishing what's out of this series in short order. There continues to be a lot of rough edges and curious decisions, which is why I've rounded the previous and this book down to four stars from its 4.5. Even so, this is quickly becoming my all-time favorite self-published series. There isn't much competition in that regard, so it may stay as such for a long time.

Rating: 4.5/5

>>22185773
I'm surprised you liked the second book so much. I personally didn't liked it too much, almost dropped the story. Genuinely disliked everything about the circus or its characters, very boring.
In comparison, I liked the third, but as many other readers I got brain-fucked by training to understand how the level worked. I heard the author simplified it for the amazon release, it's probably better now.

>Even so, this is quickly becoming my all-time favorite self-published series. There isn't much competition in that regard, so it may stay as such for a long time.
Yeap, DCC is the goat of self-pub for a reason. Still, everyday more and more good writers go solo, and new books are self-published on Amazon in insane numbers. Right now I'm reading Kitty Cat Kill Sat, a completed sci-fi webnovel that got published recently and I really like it so far.

>>22185816
I thought the circus and it's characters were at least moderately amusing. It reminded me specifically of Shining Force, Dragon Quest, and a few other Japanese games where they've used the circus in a similar way. I think I've even seen the plant used in a similar way in a circus. There's been a lot of stuff I only vaguely feel like I remember, though that may just be a mistake of pattern matching.

I've already read, written, and posted up to the 5th book. The 6th has already physically out for 10 days, and before that on Patreon, but I don't want the physical or want to do with the latter. I noticed more typos, dropped words, and other errors in the later books so I certainly am not interested in the serialized chapters that aren't fully proofread and edited yet. I know that's a bit of a double standard considering how many ARCs I've been reading, but after comparing them with the published releases they are basically the same. I did see one book that had a considerable number of changes but that was expected.

The preface for the third book says that the readers don't need to understand it, so I don't know how much was changed. I might compare the differences in the books at some point, but probably not.

>>22185816
The trains are meant to be intentionally incredibly confusing and convoluted to the point you probably won't understand it until Carl and company do. It's not really something you're 'supposed' to get, it's in-universe 'bad level design'.

Does anyone else find the Gnosis hard to visualize? I cant really make sense of "glittering abstractions" and "blue fractals" or "parabolas of light". Whereas the anagogic and Cishaurim sorcery is much easier to visualize. What do you think the spells are even supposed to look like? What is Akka attacking with?

>>22185773
Your "reviews" are shit. FUCK OFF.

>>22186090
nta, personally I didn't try to understand it until near the end and thought it was a parody of complex metro areas, pic related.

Is science fiction literature dead? Why are there no significant publications in recent years? It's all movies and TV shows.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_science_fiction#2020s

>>22186667
If you're being serious, that's a bad source and if you look at the edit history all of that was added in a single day by a single account. It's not representative in the slightest and it's rather gullible and credulous of you to think it was. I hope you're being disingenuous though. If you are, then congrats, you got a (you).

>>22185773
you can tell by the cover that its complete shit

>>22186667
Physical tech stagnated decades ago, and now Moore's law has ended. Science has no future.

>>22183335
Polgara is only really a turbo-cunt that one time in the second book, but that time is seriously unforgivable - so unforgivable in fact that the author demands you forget it and never mentions it again, and immediately tries to do everything in his power to make you forget it by making her much nicer.
Polgara should have groomed Belgarion to be her husband, like he offered when he was 8

Can't believe I used to like Release that Witch while it was being translated. Picked it up few days ago, dropping it around chapter 800.
Fucking hell, I had gripes with a lot of things since chapter 1, but there were enough good things to keep me going. Or at least the potential for things to be good. What a waste of fucking time and emotions.

>>22184996
Yeah

>>22186667
And the stuff from the old big names that is being released now is fucking trash, infested with modern political shit that their publisher obviously leaned on them to include. How we went from Revelation Space to nigger and tranny adventures in Poseidens Children is sad to see.

>>22186721
I'm serious. The latest novel on the timeline is from 2002.

>>22186149
You wouldn't make a good Gnostic schoolman. Basically, anagogic schools call for analogues to do something. Dragonhead for fire, but they cannot produce fire just by itself, a Gnostic schoolman can.

>>22184453
I finally finished Mage Errant. It's something that I wanted to reread early on but never got around to and now that interest isn't fully there. The ending was conclusive although despite (most of) the entire book being the Big Battle set up, it somehow managed to be inferior to Siege of Skyhold. Oh, the amount of 'factions' and the different types of great powers were creative, and certainly evocative to read about due to how pedentic the affinity magic system behaves. The formulaic writing was a constant, as I mentioned earlier, although it quickly wore out its humor. I don't know how to feel about Alustin surviving and I thought that the scenes where he tried to seek forgiveness from his students could have been handled a bit better but alas
It does feel... Slightly lacking? that both this and Cradle have ended within a week or two of one another, both years-long self-pub series I've been following. At least the author of Mage Errant told us that the main cast will 100% be back in future stories which is a nice confirmation, and Last Echo was much more methodical in its conclusiveness than Gaybound was. The series was fine when it focused on magic academy and progression fantasy but ME is a bummer when the faggotry and romance rears its ugly head(s).

What is the difference between 'heroic fantasy' and 'epic fantasy'? I thought they were the same thing but apparently they're different?

>>22187933
Epic is more to do with story, heroic is about characters

Fantasy books with a decent amount of (good) romance?
Nothing litRPG or harem shit

>>22188008
Dragonlance Chronicles and Legends.

>>22186149
Its lasers and beams n shit. Its pure heat, light, and kinetic force being shot out. So it could be a blue beam that contains heat and kinetic energy, or it could be a near-invisible wave of only heat

Holy shit one does not even have to read of your long ass posts to know its about litrpg garbage. You idiots really can't stay yourselves can you? It's like the left can't meme but in science fiction and fantasy. One day you will understand that your thousands of hours where spent of something that is basically the shitty fanfiction anime of literature.

>>22187378
Yes, I read the books. Your comment has nothing to do with what I asked. Its easier to visualize analogies and similes than it is to imagine "the idea of fire" being used as a weapon.

>>22188304
I see, thanks. I was getting kinda confused as to what he was actually trying to describe.

>>22188379
And yet you'll never even attempt to write a long post about the books you like, or even start a genuine discussion.

>>22183446
>Read Reverend Insanity, Lord of The Mysteries
I don’t know how you guys can stand reading shitty translations.

>>22188406
I've had plenty of discussions. But that was 20 years ago and with an audience that had read the works on question, or when I had a particular point to make and the book was relevant. Not just random reviews of trash that nobody asked for. I'd have put that on my blog

>>22188422
stop replying to ritualposters
filter their posts away and they disappear

>>22188008
The Spirit Ring by Lois McMaster Bujold
a decent bit in The Duke of Sumava by Sara J. Wrench
Dellia by David Scidmore
Three Hearts and Three Lions by Poul Anderson
God's Demon by Wayne Barlowe, implausibly enough

>>22188406
stop replying to ritualposters

>>22184570
Not too bad. First chapter is interesting enough. I just hate reading on my phone or computer. So I'm going to need a paperback or hardcover

What low fantasy books would I like if I enjoy Joe Abercrombie?

>>22186849
Moore's law is fake

>look up "most popular fantasy book 2022"
>It's all femoid authors

Breh.. where is all the kino books by real people

>>22188701
The Black Company series.

>>22189168
Women are real people.

For anyone whose read Donaldson would you say Thomas Covenant or The Gap is more worth more time? I read Lord Foul's Bane and thought it was okay, was wondering if it picks up as it goes along or if his sci fi showing is just superior

>>22189168
>>femoid
go outside

>>22189182
I've already read that :)

>>22188384
>Its easier to visualize analogies and similes than it is to imagine "the idea of fire" being used as a weapon
Exactly what I said; you would make a terrible Gnostic schoolman.
seethe+made u look

>>22189245
>women
stopped reading there

>>22185773
I'm waiting for you to say book X was shit and that you give the overall series 0.5/5 because you are so fuming.
I started book three 2 years ago, and still can't bring myself to pick it back up.

>>22189289
>he dropped it at the Iron Tangle floor
what a loser!!

>>22189262
The Drenai Saga by David Gemmell.

>>22189355
Gonna pick this up for next week. If it's shit I'm gonna find you.

>>22183286
There were. Akka and Cleric fight one. Then Serwa encounters another at Golgotterath.

>>22189245
If the last five decades have proven anything it is that women are not people.

Why is fantasy so boring. Like its a drudgery to read through. Endless pointless descriptions of castles and taverns and horse stables that don't mean shit. Unrealistic characters engaging in unrealistic and cringe political intrigue. Its just mid overall

>>22189387
Read better fantasy.

>>22189168
>>22189382
>Women write about sex because it's the only thing men read written by women
>"Women are sex demons, that's all they think about and they weaponize it."
>Women write about fantasy and fiction
>"women shouldn't write, they're bad writers. I wont ready anything by a women."

>>22188701
David Gemmell books.

>>22189398
Name one

>>22189400
Only applies to women born after the sexual revolution, who have no merit in any sense. There are a number of very talented female fantasy writers. Anne Mccaffrey, Ursula K. Le Guin, the other one...

>>22189416

The Iron Dragon's Daughter

>>22189424
>The Iron Dragon's Daughter is a 1993 science fantasy novel by American writer Michael Swanwick. The story follows Jane, a changeling girl who slaves at a dragon factory in the world of Faerie, building part-magical, part-cybernetic monsters that are used as jet fighters.

Nigga u serious?

>>22189420
Are you going to say the modern male fantasy author is worth a damn either? Brandon Sanderson is okay at best and is the best modern male fantasy author working today.

>>22189438
I'm not aware of any good ones, no.

>>22189416
Elric

>>22189434
holy shit dude gottem

>>22189303
I bet your a catfag, go glug glug somewhere else.

>>22183446
>>22183452
pls change the ritual so u can piss off fat fags like this one >>22188531

>underage ESL samefagging this hard

Inside he Dyson Sphere...

Did you ever see what's inside the fire? Angles woven in fine silk like structures. A sudden eruption awoke John from his day dream.
"A unexpected time line split occurred, 10 seconds to stabilize your position...."

Read Sladek

>>22189289
As I noted here
>>2218594
>I've already read, written, and posted up to the 5th book
Since I'm only posting 1 book per thread it'll take a while to catch up to what I've already posted on Goodreads, but I can say that I've been overall happy with everything so far and I doubt anything could reasonably happen that would make me do what happened to you

>>22188379
the fact that your mind grasped for a way to bizarrely compare this to "the left can't meme!" is honestly hilarious. Says a lot, though the fact ur an anon raging on a 4chan fantasy/sci fi thread does that already LMAO
also: almost all sci/fi fantasy is the cringe anime of the literature world, and litrpg trash is just a single small step down. please realize ur place virgin dweeb. you are the loser making fun of the slightly bigger loser. and no, the 1/1000000 exceptions in the fantasy genre don't somehow absolve you.
in summary, go read a real book

>>22189247
I think The Gap is more widely praised than Thomas Covenant. I've read the first Covenant trilogy and it's definitely up there in terms of quality.

>>22189500
>>22182162

Ok newfag

>>22189582
>>I've already read, written, and posted up to the 5th book
I feel betrayed reviewfag, how could you enjoy this tripe and give other great books low ratings.

>2016+ newfags arguing with 2016+ newfags
simply eric

>>22189604
It happens. Tastes differ. Did you have any specific books in mind? It shouldn't really be a surprise know if you knew more about me. You simply lacked critical information about my entertainment preferences. That's easily fixed if you care for it to be.

>>22183446

>>22189424
>>22189434
>The Iron Dragon's Daughter
The top review is by a woman and calls the protagonist slut, kek

>>22189625
>>22189587
>>22189500
>>22189488
newfags shouldnt be allowed to post, you fags dont even read

"I've been rolling around in the mud and shit for way longer than you! It's my only point of pride!"
This is what you guys sound like rn. Please reflect

Just started Malazan. What am i in for /lit/ros?

>>22189771
shit. Read stand-alone novels

>>22189771
A novelization of some /tg/ nerds tabletop campaign chock full of dbz beam spam. Even the most ardent fans of the series will straightface tell you that it doesnt get good until the second or third novels.

>>22189771
A good series. Probably 3 or 4 standouts but they're all worth reading.

>>22189247
Thomas covenant sucks ass. Read those three books.

>>22189706
Then you know it's good.
I find it ironic that a woman calls something random,chaotic and senseless. Gee, just like a real woman.

>>22188701
First law is literally high fantasy though? Do you even know what low fantasy means??

>>22189671
Is it true that she's conservative

SCI-FI FANS, EXPLAIN THIS SHIT

>>22189998

>>22190019
>>/lit/thread/20067176#p20067420

>>22183286
Oh, there's also the reality warping dragon corpse they stumble upon in Cil-Aujus.

I read a manga that I am sure was based off a western book, i have forgotten the title of either of them
I recall some people on a space ship to one of our planets, maybe Jupiter, they talked about dinosaurs getting so large because the earth had lower gravity
and i left off with the revelation that Neanderthals or some type of cro magnons are still living in the present.

anyone got ideas?

>>22189771
feels

>>22189866
I'm not sure you do, bro.

>>22190019
Reddit disagrees with the awards as well.

>>22189434
This seems much better than regurgitated slop like Dungeon Crawler Carl even if it seems like a gayer Wizards 1977 by synopsis.

Any good fantasy without romance?

Did covid kill this dude? He just fell off the map. Not a word after 2019.

>>22189247
They're both a vibe, and kind of the same vibe. Try Gap and if you like it go back to Covenant and you'll see a lot of the same stuff.

Recently read this entire series. It was pretty enjoyable although fairly simple which is not a bad thing in my eyes.
I thought it was a litrpg but it turns out the system just tracks what the mc actually does and doesn't give him anything.
For example he has to workout to increase his strength and there is no shortcut or point allocation that allows him to increase anything. The whole system was unnecessary honestly since it's just a record of what he achieves.
The whole premise of the earth dying and the mc going into a bootcamp so that he can be put into cryostasis for a thousand years is very intriguing and not something i've seen before.
Lots of death and suffering but i like that the protag somehow manages to rise above and not break and overall be a fairly likeable and honorable guy.
The magic powers come fairly late into the story which might be offputting to some but i enjoyed the military training first and the supernatural abilities later.
I guess the thing i liked the most was the main characters personality. It just fit my taste completely which is something that is somewhat rare for me.
All in all i'd rate this around 8/10.
There were some grammar mistakes here and there that one more edit could probably fix up but the writing flowed really well the majority of the time so i could afford to ignore it.

is Black Jewels series any good? thinking about that or Journey of Black and Red
or if there is a similar series that is better please recommend

>>22189412
>>22188701
Yeah this nigga is right, just started this the other day, romance was a little cringe
at first but the rest has been definitely not terrible and fun to read.

>>22190019
Scalzi has dirt on a lot of people.

>>22190461
It has been a long time since I read the Black Jewels series, at least the ones that had been released at the time, but from what I remember it was a very different series to Journey of Black and Red in tone and style, much darker and also better written (not that Black and Red is bad). It's like comparing Anne Rice to Twilight.

>>22190019
Basically Scalzi is mimicking Joss Whedon style dialogue in prose

>>22190019
jesus christ

>>22190019
I actually find it hard to believe this is the same man who wrote this

>>22191138
The pandemic broke the brains of a lot of people in many different ways.

>>22185760
Her prose is like drinking sand

>>22191035
I don't know why people try to copy Whedon. Him and James Gunn are the only two who can pull off that style of writing.

>>22191484
It's a smart business decision even if he couldn't pull it off. Whedon-style humor has come to dominate hollywood blockbusters and make billions of dollars appealing to young people and millennials. He's just trying to take some of that market.

For those of you who have read The Southern Reach trilogy, should I bother reading the other two books or just stop at Annihilation?

Challenge: change one word in the title of the book you are currently reading to "reddit".

>The reddit company

I hope nobody spends the next 150 posts attempting to "force" and "demand" discussion book discussion in the book discussion thread, so we can continue having epic reddit games and posts :DDDDD

>>22191785
this anon probably reading "the reddit inn"

Hi folks. I posted the start of my fantasy novel first draft a year or so ago, and got good feedback/critique. At this point, roughly 150 pages of it have been written and I feel like it's a good time to share it here again.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/54622/the-kill-list

Ignore the fact that it's on RR-- I'm really just using the site to host the first draft as I gather feedback for it.

If anyone feels up to reading it and providing some thoughts, I'd really appreciate it.

>>22191855
Excellent first chapter. Don't have time to read more, but I will after work. Your prose is really well done.

What is the hardest hard scifi that deals with practical elements of the future (i.e. not Greg Egan talking about the social dynamics of human brain emulations). Tau Zero would be the best of the style I'm looking for that I've come across. Do not recommend Leviathan Wakes.

>>22182827
What do you lot think about the Obsidian Trilogy?

Conan worth getting into?

>>22192025
They're short stories fella just read one and see if you like it

>>22191855
This is exceptionally good. The prose alone puts it in a league of its own.

>>22191940
>>22192083
Same fag? Don’t want to read shilled swill. Justify your opinions or kys

>>22191855
This is some of the best writing I've seen since F Gardner. Everyone should go check it out. Make sure to leave a 5 star review, too.

>>22192100
not either of them. Read the first four chapters. I like the world building personally. The writing flows well and there are elements that make me want to turn the page, so to speak. It might be high fantasy but reads like a suspense/thriller at points

>>22191855
This actually feels revised. How long did it take you to iron out chapter one?

>>22190019
You know the state of these awards by now. Just ignore them.

>>22191855
Why can't people write anything original? The synopsis is just like 4 thousand other YA female protag fantasy shlock. God damnnit

>>22192319
He thinks originality matters.

Who in their right mind put Fimbulwinter as a reccomendation? There is better shit on NU for Christ's sake.

>>22191940
>>22192083
Thank you for the kind words. Please remember that comments about what works are just as useful as comments about what doesn't work.

>>22192296
Thanks anon. To be honest with you, the first chapter was really just luck. I went over it with actual cuts/revisions, maybe twice, a few days after writing it. The rest of the draft for the novel is much more rough around the edges, and I'm dreading the amount of edits I'll have to make when it's over.

>>22192269
Please don't.

>>22192319
That's fair critique. When I first set out to write chapter one, I did so with the goal of making some pulp fantasy, akin to the first Witcher compilation.

It turned into something else, but it is still fairly cliched. I think that as the novel goes on, I'll be able to differentiate it with the elements of cosmic horror that get mixed in the plot over time.

>>22192348
It's an artifact of times long gone

>>22192338
of course it matters

>>22191855
>Isadora
stopped reading there. Kys.

>>22191855
>Female lead

>>22192397
>>22192402
Yes-- I have a daughter and it struck me as something I could write while aiming for her eventual enjoyment. Fair reason to not read, though. Some people have to be able to relate directly to the experience of the protagonist.

>>22192414
>Some people have to be able to self-insert as the protagonist.
FTFY

>>22182827
Any good fantasy smut, I mean like crazy sex magic and the like not just holding hands with elves.

>>22192432
Mana Master

>>22192414
chad energy

>>22192414
>I have a daughter
You know the rules

>>22192414
based

Thoughts on The Accursed Kings novels? Considering checking it out bc I've heard it's something that inspired GRRM

>>22183446
>>22183452
add this one to the list

>>22192414
>Some people have to be able to relate directly to the experience of the protagonist.
This is some pathetic cope right here.
A lot of trolls on 4chin who over-state (or lazily over-simplify) the case against female protagonists but if you think the only possible reason to dislike female protagonists is that you need to "directly relate to the experience of the protagonist" you are (a) retarded and (b) need to go back.
>>22192419
Yeah, let's make the point even dumber.

>>22191855
I read the first chapter. Isadora is not interesting. She's a totally generic male-with-tits protag. I already see a better story concept: The brother. He was (supposedly) so weak and non-threatening the villains didn't seem concerned with murdering him.
What about him?

>Runt of the litter overcomes a wasting disease to avenge murdered family
vs
>Generic budding badass (she/her) avenges murdered family.

>>22192414
kek, your story is a beta cuck garbage

Bad writers make women protagonists just be men with tits.
Good writers can make them seem like actual women, which is even worse.

>>22192825
the sick brother orchestrated the coup

>>22192825
Eh, this reads like the type of person that posts redpills on /pol/, and I mean that in a very negative way. I read through the story that guy posted and I thought the MC came off enough like a woman. I was a born a woman, so I’d like to think my opinion matters.
If you simply don’t like female protagonists, that’s fine, but none of your points have any substance or clarification to them. Also, your point about the male twin is funny, because the story twists around and makes the sick kid the primary antagonist, in a way.

>>22192825
I skipped ahead in the story and it looks like Isaac is actually having a plot curve like you described.

I'm reading Titus Groan because it was on that old reading list you guys used to have and I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Everything I see about this book calls it a masterpiece but I just don't like it. It's all flowery descriptions but there's no plot for well over half the book, and I just don't understand Keda's character and arc at all. People talk about how mysterious the castle is but I just see a decrepit ruin, I have no interest in whatever supposed secrets it might have. Am I just retarded?

>>22192825
>>22192837
Explain why women protagonists are bad, in your own words. Explain what a man with tits is, in literature, and what the opposite is.

>>22192825
>doesn’t read past the first chapter
>complains that the plot isn’t immediately rewarding
>the plot he wants is revealed in the third chapter

This post brought to you by niggas who don’t read

>>22190137
Inherit the Stars by James P Hogan

>>22192859
Vocal minorities can do that, especially when those who have read it and don't like it don't say anything. Those who haven't read stuff often give it a free pass. If you look at the /sffg/ ratings there are at least a few who didn't like it at all.

>>22192837
Great writer don't write women at all.

>>22192841
wow, what a mindblowing twist
>>22192837
Yeah, it can be worse. But the devil is in the details. There are plenty of potentially interesting roles for female characters that don't have to dwell on excessive femininity while also not being obnoxiously male-with-tits. Take Karen Ross from Michael Crichton's Congo. She's extremely smart and ambitious to the point of recklessness. She's described as being tall and awkward, almost pretty but not quite. So she's just sufficiently plausible as a rare girl prodigy who devoted her life to career advancement rather than domesticity, and that's why she's in the story. IOW she's an actual character who moves the story along (and whose well-articulated primary flaw almost kills everyone in the end). The character could have been male, but in this case she contrasts very well with the male primatologist (subverting a potential stereotype of a Jane Goodall primate researcher character). So each character is a bit of a weirdo so the "against type" gender roles work. (And, the veteran mercenary, Munro, is male to round out the trio).

There's plenty for women to do in a political intrigue story that doesn't involve roaming the streets and bullying confessions from mini-bosses at swordpoint. Women are usually more subtle.

Authors who have a similar style to Lovecraft's dream stories, eg The White Ship, Dream of Unknown Kadath, The Quest of Iranon? Not interested in cthulu crap.

>>22192948
King in Yellow maybe?

>>22192825
lol

>>22192875
If I'm going to read schlock, it should hook me in the first chapter, yes. Alternately the chapter should be entertaining on its own.
In this case, the characters are boring, the action is pedantic and the hook is weak.
So yes, I'm dropping it.
>>22192869
>Explain why women protagonists are bad, in your own words
They aren't.
But taking a generic story template designed for a male and swapping in a female gets two strikes against you instead of just one.

>>22192869
go back reading/writing love stories, dramas and smut, stay out of sff action and adventure because you do not understand it, you ruin everything you touch.

>>22192940
Can you get to the fucking point without writing a fucking blog post

>>22193007
That's right. Warriors don't read books.

>>22192855
>the story twists around and makes the sick kid the primary antagonist, in a way.
Yeah funny how that happens, as if the writer's subconscious instinctively works around the mistakes caused by executive function that has been led astray.

>>22193009
Warriors read books, warriors don't read roastie life story blog posts.

>>22193007
>Can you get to the fucking point without writing a fucking blog post
The point is: Women acting like women doesn't have to mean they're annoying irrational cunts all the time. If you don't have the patience to read my example, I don't really care.

>>22193007
>fucking blog post
its a single paragraph dude, if you can't bear to read 4 lines of text what's the point of your presence on this board?
>in b4 you call this post a tl;dr wall of text

>>22193036
>doesn't have to mean
what garbage. They are either irrating cunts or they are not, I am not bothered as long as they stay in their women novels.

For anyone who's read Old Man's War before, when am I supposed to read The Sagan Diary novella?

>>22193102
Why would your think it would be anything other than publication order?

>>22191855
I think you have something here, Anon. I also think you need an editor. Keep working on it. It is just as good if not better than much of the slop that is published these days.

I personally hate the
> my lady

That's probably my personal taste though. I would also like more descriptions of the characters, what Harig's voice sounds like. Their surroundings could be described more. Your prose is good though and I don't want to clutter it.

>>22191855
Good you have people shitting on your book. My book is so boring nobody even bothered to shit on it. Keep up the good work!

>>22193160
Thanks for taking the time to read and provide feedback! Finding a balance between descriptions and dialogue is something I’m really struggling with as I progress in it. An editor will work wonders when I get to that stage!

>>22193177
Lol, thanks. Anything will have its naysayers, I’m fine with that. If anything, I have notes to address for the second draft, like making the protagonist more outwardly feminine, and etc.

>>22192940
>women are usually more subtle
I think it’s okay to have women that are subtle, and women that aren’t. When writing my draft, I worked from the angle of Isadora being raised by a male, for a typical male position (head of country). Into nerd world building, Priene’s throne isn’t gender necessitated, and the Norns for a queen are much the same as a king.
Add the stress of having a frail/ill brother who is better at soft skills, primarily thanks for his own illness, and you get a woman who comes off more ‘masculine’.

I do agree though, especially early on, there isn’t much reason to root for the protagonist. She isn’t very likable. I’ve had better feedback about second characters, like Mikhail or Bryn.

>>22193205
>Priene’s throne isn’t gender necessitated
That kingdom won't last long

>>22193205
>>22192940
>>22192414
>>22191855
You seem like a reasonably competent writer. Would you be willing to take a look at my novel and give your impressions?

>>22193205
Characters don't necessarily need to be likeable early on, they just need to have some clear thing you want to see them do, or to see happen to them. A beaten down character on the bottom of the totem pole you want to see rise up against their oppressors. An experienced character on a difficult journey you want to see them experience the various ups and downs of the journey. If she's not likeable and you WANT her to be, consider making it obvious that that unlikeability is a sticking point with other characters, and something that's brought up as a flaw.

>>22193274
That’s kind of you. Feel free to share your stuff here or writing general!

>>22193284
Damn that’s a really good point. Thank you for that. You’ve given me a better way forward than I initially planned. Making the unlikeability a known and discussed factor— give a place for her to rise to.

>>22193301
I've posted it once or twice before but never got any responses, possibly because of the place I chose to upload it
https://archiveofourown.org/works/37120204/chapters/92615134

about to start reading this, what am i in for?

>>22193334
>what am i in for?
seeing words like "heavenly" and "dragon" appear more frequently than words like "the" and "and"

>>22193350
sounds great

>>22193350
i was hoping more for jade beauties and aphrodisiac pills

>>22193320
Made it about four chapters into this-- it really isn't bad at all. You've set yourself with a major challenge though, and that's writing a novel length book in the first person.

The voice used for your first person is well developed, but sometimes also feels like listening to Ben Stein talk. It'll be difficult to sell a reader on a book where that's the voice guiding them through it.

If you really want to commit to first person, then I might recommend researching first person voice.

That being said, the premise is promising so far, and your prose overall is good. I would consider posting it on RR regularly for more available feedback. While RR functions primarily for isekai or litrpg schlock, there is a small community there trying to write "normal" fiction.

Also, read American Gods. It's parallel to your premise in some ways.

>>22187156
Well, author(s) had a shitshow of a domestic life. He wrote what he knew, overly aggressive women included.

>>22193410
Did he write about torturing and abusing children too?

>>22193395
I've read some good books in first person and am - for better or worse - dead set on keeping it first-person, but this isn't "normal" fiction, it switches up to historical fantasy in the next chapter. It is in fact an "isekai".
Also Neil Gay-Man is a cringy redditor who does less research on religion than the average shitposting atheist on /his/.

>>22193434
>>>/a/isekai

>>22193434
Carry on then, I guess! For an older example of isekai, may I recommend "Magic Kingdom For Sale, Sold!" by Terry Brooks?

>>22193421
I think this happens when a couple is engaged in the usual retarded battle for dominance (which is emotionally costly for both of them), and then they adopt. A convenient scapegoat, that is.

>>22193438
I've read that, liked it a lot, as well as Three Hearts and Three Lions by Poul Andersen (you'll see the reference to that pretty early on - you'll know what I'm talking about), and The Song of Albion by Stephen Lawhead, Minerva Wakes by Holly Lisle, The Third Magic by Welwyn Witton Katz, the Fionavar Tapestry by Guy Gavriel Kay (great fantasy, bad portal fantasy) and probably other things I can't recall

>>22193452
Those are a lot of books I haven't read! Which would you most recommend from the list?

>>22193454
all of them desu
all the ones I mentioned are portal fantasies (i.e. isekais) and all are worth reading, but I found the Third Magic a bit distasteful

>goodreads is kill

>>22193483

Hopefully forever

>>22183117
At least post the first chapter here so we can read it.

>>22191855
People are taking the piss out of this, but it had me reading until chapter nine so far. It's really good. I plan to read more later.

>>22193498
How will I know what books I wanted to read? I can't remember that shit.

>>22193512
kids these days

>>22193520
I really felt this series hit its stride with the prequel novella OP: a coming out story

>>22193520
>win7

>>22193529
I know right? What a based lad.

>>22183446
>>22183452
add Mistborn to the list

>>22192948
>>22192959
King in Yellow is great, except for the stories that don't feature the King in Yellow. Which is most of the second half. There should be a curated repository for this, with the rest left to those daring few who feel they see beyond.

>>22191855
>Jon H. is a licensed funeral director, former aircraft mechanic, and current programmer.

This is either bullshit or the backstory of a chronic job quitter.

>>22193596
Nonsense, from his work history you can see he is profiting off of his funeral home by sabotaging transports.

>>22193596
You're half-right-- the military makes for a strange employer. Funeral directing was my major (mortuary science) prior to enlisting.

>>22193596
>chronic job quitter
I'm struggling to understand how this, of all accusations, is a contextual thing. Holy shit every day it's something new in a general.

>>22193520
i agree that people should be keeping local records (preferably physical) if they really care about tracking this stuff, but you're a god damn idiot if you think notepad is a suitable replacement for goodreads. you're on an image board for fuck's sake. why aren't you just pasting images on paper and tacking them onto your local library's bulletin board or mailing random people your shitty thoughts and hoping to god they'll respond?

>>22193626
It was a quick joke, anon. Kids these days aren't going to know what notepad is, much less use something like excel to track their books.

Anyone have link to Daniel Black series? Not on libgen.

>>22182827
Is John M. Ford worth reading?

>>22193638
annas-archive

>>22193674
Thanks you, I found it a minute ago on there, but I am still very thankful.

After finishing Cradle and Mage Errant, two years-long running series that ended within a week or two of one another, I have gone back to my reread of the second book of PKD's short story collection. Fellas, this is literal Twilight Zone literature, the closest thing I'll get. The 'weird' fiction, the casual warpings of reality and mindfuckery. I'm wiser and bookmarking the stories I really like this time. The man really did not like war either, not that I disagree.

>>22192895
holy shit, thank you so much

This is why I regularly export all my Goodreads data.

>>22193697
PKD was a zero talent hack.
I bet you haven't even read Ted Chiang.

Currently reading Book of the New Sun, I am about 30 pages into The Sword of the Lictor (Severian just met Cyriaca).

I'm enjoying it, but can someone please without spoiling the rest of the books tell me if there will be sufficient clues to explain wtf is going on with Abaia, Erebus, the butterfly monster, the roar underground, etc? It is by far the most interesting element of the plot to me, but I can't help but feel the series is going to end without resolving much of anything.

>>22193832
Yes, but you may not notice them.

>>22193832
You aren't going to get the explanations I think you want in BotNS. You need to read the rest of The Solar Cycle for more info about that stuff.

>>22193652
yes
great alt history

>deconstructs the werewolf in the 1920s
Nothin' personal furfags.
But seriously, Howards horror stories are so fucking good.

>>22193937
>deconstructs
How so?

>>22193947
Basically instead of men turning into wolves its wolves turning into men. And he gives a whole mythology of how they came to be.

>>22193507
>People are taking the piss out of this
Well that's the thing, the style is OK, it's good enough to get me to check it out
But then immediately fucks it up with a shitty misguided female protagonist, along with the standard reddit defense "you only want to see your exact experience reflected blah blah." You want something original and different in 2023? Try NOT having your main character be a stronk female fighting woman who roughs up some generic dickhead in the opening scene.

If you must make a female protag, for the love of god try to make her an interesting, appealing character not a generic cocky bantering dude with tits. Beatrix Kiddo had a revenge plot, but she was a former elite assassin and pretty early on you discover that her ex-boss/lover and father of her (then) unborn child put a bullet in her head at close range. She's congruent as both a female character and a badass.

> I worked from the angle of Isadora being raised by a male, for a typical male position (head of country)
I don't get much of that from the first chapter. I get that she's politically relevant, but character-wise I only see her doing some combat, brutal interrogation and a revenge slaying.

>>22193205
>I do agree though, especially early on, there isn’t much reason to root for the protagonist. She isn’t very likable.
For me, I don't think she's especially unlikable, just not as interesting or congruent as I'd prefer. I don't need to be rooting hard for a protagonist in the opening chapters, I'm just learning who they are.

>>22193284
Or just have them do things that highlight their unique character traits. You're establishing the starting point of the character-- their goals, desires and motivations, their personality, their defining skills, abilities and place in the world.

>>22184570
It's a good improvement anon. Those few changes seemed to help the flow quite a bit.

>>22193977
I really do appreciate your feedback anon. Fwiw, the experience comment wasn’t to detract from the criticism of having a female protagonist, it simply was a thought from my own pov. You’ve provided useful critique so far, and if you could stomach the rest of my prose, I’d find further feedback just as useful, if not more so.

Again, it’s a first draft. That’s not to excuse its shortcomings as much as it is to say that I’m looking for anything I can do to improve it in further iterations. Thanks ahead of time, regardless.

>>22193977
>>22194025
Just so you know, kill list anon, "stronk female fighting women" are popular across stories for a reason. Don't take this opinion as gospel. Sounds like other anon just doesn't like that character type, which is fair, but I do, and so do many others

>>22194043
i mean i know why i like it by why do girl readers like it?

>>22194025
it's not a first draft. You haven't even gotten to the end yet. I wouldn't worry too much about getting tons of feedback until you actually get to the end of the first book.

That said, you said you wanted to add cosmic horror to it. My suggestion is to hint at the cosmic horror EARLY in the story. A good place would be her killing someone (have the victim act very strange when confronted with death) or during one of your flashback chapters. If you did so, I didn't catch it yet, so that's a good sign. You want to avoid the "LOL OUT OF NOWHERE TENTACLES!" crap that a lot of authors do when they're pantsing the shit out of their stories.

What are some books like Pikmin

>>22193334
Martial God Asura sounds like a store brand Battle Angel Alita

>>22193832
Yes, but you WILL not notice them on the first read through

>>22194393
holy shit youre right. thats why it sounded familiar. think it was intentional?

I know he's a meme but is Brandon Sanderson remotely worth reading?

>>22194485
no

I'm sad Cradle is over.
It was a decent ending. I understand why it ended where it did. But I'm still sad that it's over.

Now I have to return to the book I started prior to cradle's finale. Back to the fucking Quantum Magician. Which is a pretty cliche heist story. I'm really not looking forward to continuing where I left off. Where do I go from here?

>>22192414
Your daughter will never love the story as much as you love writing it for her. Just remember that when she's 10 years old, and has zero fucking interest in your work. And please don't force it on her like some neurotic narcissist.

>>22192825
>>22192978
"Male with tits" is never a good critique. It's just poorly justified sexism. You think women can't act a certain way, or think a certain way, or be a part of certain societal roles, all because they're women. It's utter bullshit.
Also, in the vast majority of stories, men are not acting in a way that is exclusionary to women. Like, you don't read their story and think "only men can do that". So why when a woman does it, do you suddenly think "only men can do that"?

>>22182860
Red Rising, especially in the tetralogy that comes after the main series

What's the verdict on pic related? I joined a bookclub and this is what they're reading. I'm trying to keep an open mind because the author has 6 white children with the same father.

>>22194609
Bad post.
Male with tits is the easiest way to summarize the critique, which had been elaborated on several times in this thread above. You just don't like it because you have a broken world view.

It's not just that women "can't act a certain way." It means your femchar has to fit in the world, she has to make sense. I know I've lost you at this point, your brain is hurting so you stopped reading, but I'll continue did anyone else who cares. The kill bill protagonist (I know it's a movie, but we're still talking about the writing), is a fighting woman(with a kill list no less) that works. There's just enough detail about her revealed early on to establish her place in the world. Her combat prowess is immediately introduced as exceptional (not mere routine competence), and quickly explained by her history as a member of the deadly viper assassination squad.

Kiddo is congruent (and compelling). She's not portrayed as just being female with ho hum generic swordskills because obviously women can do anything a man can do, what are you, sexist?

>>22194043
Zoomers' plummeting testosterone levels.

>>22194058
Girls will like stories for various reasons you might not expect. And yes simply making the protagonist female helps. Though I predict if you follow up on establishing the femprotag as more relevantly/plausibly female, they'll like it even more.

>>22194609
Tits or GTFO

>>22194772
>Female author
No thank yo-
>I'm trying to keep an open mind because the author has 6 white children with the same father.
Well this is a conundrum. I hold no hopes of her making a good book but props for the lifestyle, would be even better if she turns out to be a good author.

>>22194772
>the author has 6 white children with the same father.
That would make her a mormon?

>>22194772
It's gender bent Eragon.

>>22194989
She's a published fantasy author so the chance is good that you're right

Anyone here read Dave Duncan? What's the best thing he ever wrote?

>>22194908
Is anyone still writing "men with tits", even? The last one I remember is the protag of the first Mistborn trilogy. I'm not that opposed to engaging with this delusion, really.

>Reading Black Coven
>Literal cucking
But...why? Everything was clearly established, you had to kill the IQ of characters to even make it happen the way it did. I will continue reading just to see how this can be salvaged, which I doubt it will.

>>22195193
Just dropped Firemane Saga for similar reasons. I have poor tolerance for shenanigans, and it helps that I'm not paying for books.

>>22193985
Thank you anon. It means a lot to know there's improvement and I'm not just chasing ghosts

>>22195209
I guess it does help that I'm not paying for the book, but I try to invest emotions into what I'm reading so this is fairly vile of the author.

Well this whole cucking thing was magicked away, using mind control as an excuse to cause drama and using magic to resolve everything. I am utterly confused as to why it had to happen in the first place, nevermind the fact that all the setup for it was done in Book 1 and first half of the Book 2, the payoff was already there at halfway point, but instead of characters not being mongrels and resolving it, author decided it was not spicy enough or something.
As it is a smut novel, the closest comparison that I can think of would be fucking a girl, both of you reaching a climax and orgasming. Then once you already shot it out, you wait a couple of seconds and do a hard ram, acting like it's the finishing move. Wholy unnecesary and confusing at best.

>>22195481
wrong board, sorry

>>22195488
15 or 25 depening on paw fuckery. What board were you even going to post this on?

>>22195507
>>>/an/4553981

There was a video on youtube recorded off the radio of William Gibson reading the first chapter of Mona Lisa Overdrive and then giving an interview about it, just around the time it came out. Does anyone have a link to it? You can't find shit on the internet by searching these days.

>>22182827
I have a 2 questions
>best aquatic book?
a book or book series that mostly deals with adventures or civilizations under water
>best version of 20,000 leagues under the sea?

>>22192319
Humanity and almost all of existence is like Taco Bell. There are are very few things/ingredients that are just repackaged in different ways/different wrappers.

Just finished jonathan strange and mr. Norrel which was a very delightful book but the ending felt a tad rushed.
Bought the eye of the world from a thrift store and gunna read it tonight.
Any books you guys read that have a very nice prose style? Looking for inspiration.

>>22195567
>food analogy

>>22195576
i'll eat you

>>22195572
Suldrun's garden

>>22195587
Noo don't haha

>>22195340
>invest emotions
Seems like a euphemism for self-insert in this context. I'm never not amazed by those who have a phobia of it.

>>22194772
Imagine not separating the book from its author. The 14 Words really control your mind.

>>22193674
Isn't any good for anything that's just came out because as it says on their that their index lags behind. Otherwise it works well.

>>22195675
Not really. He is too different compared to me to self-insert even if I wanted to. It's no different than getting invested into a character on stage, feeling their pain, joy and sorrow. If it was done in an organic way, I would complain but more out of distress, the same way you would feel if your friend had gone through it.
When it was done in such a forced way it breaks the immersion, making you question why the author did it. Since it's such an unpleasent topic, you start to wonder about the author's preferences, and one issue is usually but a symptom of their personality, therefore the quality of the whole work is in question.
It isn't even confirmation bias, but more of a hindsight 20/20.
Not to harp on about it, but it makes me question if it's a red flag for even worse things to come.

>>22195700
mobilism

>>22195525
Kek, I just say one paw and a X at the end but I don't want to calculate rn

>>22194947
Looks to me like chick lit dressed up as fantasy.
>>22195182
Yes, the kill list anon's story. Maybe it's just the first chapter (I didn't read further) but it's a fairly standard man-with-tits. You have a blatantly male-biased scenario and behavior (barging into some loser's workplace, taking out the guard with routine combat, interrogation via direct threats followed by the kill). The gender is changed with no explanation or even any implicit acknowledgment of the role subversion. This is exactly how the "man with tits" trope presents.

Clearly this kind of thing has fans, so it's fine if you want to use it. But don't get mad, try to deny what it is or think it's my problem for noticing.

>>22195813
I just saw*

>Sci fi cover
>a planet or spaceship
>Fantasy cover
>a sword or a castle or something

Come the hell on.

What's some good Jack Vance to read if I liked Lyonesse a lot and generally enjoy epic fantasy? Should I jump into Dying Earth? I know that's sort of like his big claim to fame. I trust the word of Vance fans here cause you guys recommended Lyonesse to me in the first place.

>>22182990
Shadowmarch by Tad Williams. Actual polytheistic religion where the gods are very much real.

>>22191855
finally had time to read this. the first chapter caught my attention at work, and i read the rest over the course of the last night/early morning.

I think you've got some great beginnings here. The first chapter is by far the most toned up, but big shout out to your character building as the plot draws on. I'm actually pretty mad that there isn't more to read currently, so I would take that as a sign that you've made something good, here.

>>22195816
Coincidentally that makes me more able to engage with this. I felt some huge female vibes from chapter 4 and whatever one the tower is, too. The plot pretty succinctly explains why she's in the "blatantly male biased scenario."

If the first chapter didn't capture your attention, that's one thing, but expecting a trope subversion to be fully explored within the opening chapter is a little unrealistic, especially for a fantasy length work.

To me the main character seemed pretty obviously inspired by kill bill, especially when she interfaces with other women she encounters

tl;dr fuck you i liked it

>>22195842
Dying Earth isn't epic fantasy.

>>22195842
If you like Lyonesse you will enjoy anything written by Vance.

>>22195834
>Fantasy cover
>a sword or a castle or something
Fantasy covers these days are just a monochrome background, often white, with a photoshopped image superimposed on the front. Sometimes it's a person, sometimes a stylized symbol vaguely related to the title or themes of the book. It's fucking garbage. I want my richly colored illustrations back, even if they portrayed a weirdly distorted version of characters and events like the artist overheard two people talking about the book at a cafe and then filled in the missing details himself.

>>22195854
I didn't say it was, I'm just saying that's the kind of story I like to better inform recommendations.

>>22195857
Good to know, then. Lyonesse was different from a lot of the stories I typically read but no less enjoyable. I found him refreshing in a number of ways.

>>22195867
>>22183452
All very colorful covers

>>22195891
They are shitty photoshop covers, which I used to loath the most before the current monochrome + image fad took over. Painted illustrations from the 90s and earlier, or get the fuck out.

>>22195816
the amount of butthurt itt you've posted over female characters is indicative of incel minded bullshit. you have to go back

>>22195955
>y-you're butthurt
and yet you can't even begin to mount an argument against any of the actual points I've made.

>>22195980
You didn’t really make any point though. A chapter failed to capture you and you blamed it on the gender of a character instead of the plot just failing to interest you. You go on to expect a full trope subversion within the first pages of a novel. You’re silly. Make good points, then people will take you seriously.

>>22195980
your points sound like you’ve been listening to Andrew Tate

>>22195847
this poster seemed to counter your points, but you ignored them. I don’t have a dog in the race as I haven’t read that guys story, but I do think your anti female lead posts are trash. >>22195980

>>22195993
If it makes you feel any better, you are going to see progressively less and less "men with tits" in fiction as time goes by. See, for this to happen the writer has to have a handle on what motivates men, AND be delusional enough to assume that women are basically the same. Since everyone is cucked these days, that first part isn't happening.

>>22196021
What statement are you trying to make? You’re getting more incomprehensible as you go, just using buzz words to talk about modern men. You’re pretending to be a chad on a Genovian basket breaking forum.

>>22196021
You are cucked as well, anon?

>>22195847
>expecting a trope subversion to be fully explored within the opening chapter is a little unrealistic
I don't expect it to be fully explored, I want to see some evidence that author knows what they are doing and hasn't just jammed in a female protagonist for the sake of his daughter and not thought beyond that.
>Coincidentally that makes me more able to engage with this.
Would you have been as engaged had the main character here been male?

>>22196041
I'm obliviously not the anon you've been arguing with, dumdum.
>What statement are you trying to make?
Don't concern yourself with nerds writing unrealistic female characters, because prerequisites for that happening are gone?

Shut the fuck up about this. All of you. Let incel anon whine about cucks and snoyboys and men with tits and just ignore him. How is it 2023 and people still engage with retards and shit up a thread by doing so. Fuck. This discussion has lasted WAY too long

how many thread personalities do we have anyway? too fucking much for a non-/vg/ general that's for damn sure

>30 days
I've been waiting for this book for almost 4 years now.....I'm gonna make it bros

>>22195993
>A chapter failed to capture you and you blamed it on the gender of a character instead of the plot just failing to interest you.
I've explained the distinction already. If you don't get it, I could explain more, but that requires people actually engaging and not just making dumb accusations.

To put it another way, the exact same chapter with a male protagonist might have been underwhelming, but would not have raised the same red flags. The character being female immediately raises some red (or at least yellow) flags, and these flags have not addressed by the time the chapter ends.

And calling it a subversion is really giving it more credit than its due.

>>22196007
>but you ignored them
I just hadn't had time to respond to him yet.
I've made posts about this topic many times and there are always a flood of brainlets like you who crawl out of the woodwork and cannot resist chiming in with empty downvotes, despite not understanding and not having anything remotely interesting to say.

>>22196070
another pathetic bug crawls out of the woodwork to do nothing but snipe and virtue signal.

>>22196080
>/vg/
go back >>>/vg/

>>22195834
Fantasy covers these days seem to either be "silhouetted figure looking out over big structure/landscape" or "hooded figured (sometimes with a sword) walking towards the viewer".

>>22195834
>>22195867
Because they always think their covers need to be gripping. And they should, but if everyone's doing it in the exactly same style it all blends together. Also, artists aren't really drawing art for covers in a sense they're interesting scenes from the novel itself.

>>22196211
Looks like a magic the gathering card. I'm sure AI can generate a style like this. Just crop out or hide the hands

>>22196048
Which Engrish is this, exactly? Slavic?

Started reading a hecking Isekai. Seems fun so far. People don't seem to rate the series that highly.

>>22192748
I've read machine translations that had better prose. Story is decent enough but gah, the writing is completely horrible.

>>22196086
You still haven’t said what would address your red flags.

>>22195955
YOU really need to go back, buzzwordfag

I will now read your book

>>22196504
And you posted this without the name of the fucking book why?

>>22196524
I didn't know you would be into chimpanzee strippers.

Uplift War

>>22196557
Thanks, I stole all the things.

>>22196345
Mostly because I can't prescribe an obvious fix (other than using appropriate gender) because it's all character-dependent and story-dependent. There should be details that reinforce the female nature of her character, beyond just some throwaway line about le male gaze. I would likely have to substantially re-work the chapter in order to frame it and highlight the key details. It could theoretically be as subtle as having characters react appropriately to her gender. Maybe Harig could have handled the muscle/combat. Or there could have been some hint at an unusual explanation for her combat skills.

>>22196708
You're focusing on unrealistic strength and combat ability, then? I'm more sensitive to female characters taking abstract ideas seriously. Honor, taking promises seriously, that sort of stuff.

>>22196723
>You're focusing on unrealistic strength and combat ability, then
Almost, not precisely. My issue is its presentation as something routine and unremarkable. A male prince with above-average combat skills isn't remarkable. A female is.
>I'm more sensitive to female characters taking abstract ideas seriously. Honor, taking promises seriously, that sort of stuff.
There's only a little of that here (opinions about the morality of the hound-monsters).

>>22196769
>opinions about the morality of the hound-monsters
I haven't read the thing, but anything that looks like a maternal response is perfectly kosher on a female character, far as I see it. By itself it's not a moral claim.

>>22193937
>>22193975
How is Kull compared to Conan and Soloman Kane?

>>22196769
>A male prince with above-average combat skills isn't remarkable. A female is.
I do tend to notice a lot more fantasy things these days either explaining this with the general "magic is nigh-ubiquitous and bridges the gap that there basically isn't one" or it's just a world where women are just as likely as men to fight, and though it's never explained I tend to just go with "okay the physiological differences on that front are either minute or just not there in this setting".

>>22196999
given the captain of the city watch in the kill list is female as well, your take is probably the correct one. the story seemed to represent males and females pretty equally in military presence

>>22197003
I'm not the author, sorry, I was just offering my own thoughts. I personally don't really mind the latter if it's not awkwardly called attention to. Or you just have the trope of "experienced men beaten by random women with the only explanation being she's more experienced but she's also like ten years younger". That trope bothers me when it's a guy doing it too, you gotta explain some stuff (character's just a prodigy, they have some ability to help, they're better in a brawl than the proper fighting the soldiers have, etc.) though I admittedly have a quite high suspension of disbelief.

>>22196999
just barging in about a recent work I read where it is actually explained, which was nice.

The Blacktongue Thief
gigantic number of men if not an outright majority were killed in wars against goblins so women had to train. the remaining guys in the universe get catcalled and can be high class hookers lol

>>22197020
I mean I can just as readily accept "the culture is different enough that women can fight" as much as "it's desperate enough that women HAVE to fight".

>>22197012
i mean, that's what fantasy is about, right? within limits, of course. i've been one of the folks over the past two days discussing the ups and downs of female leads, not the author. for the first chapter that has been the primary source of debate so far, the person in question the female lead kills is portrayed as a bumbling alcoholic, and the female lead has to call on her male knight to support/sustain her. so it worked for me

there's a kino moment later when she meets with her old hero-figure, female captain of city watch that has betrayed her father. that was a good exchange and i felt very "feminine"

>>22196853
About the same.

Tried reading Feed by Mira Grant. It had very bad dialogue. Recommend me scifi book that does not have so bad dialogue that it makes me want to stop reading. It does not need to be good dialogue just not so annoyingly stupid.

>>22197025
same thing in Blacktongue. the culture is different (changed) *because* of the desperation

>>22196853
Kull is a hero among heroes, whereas Conan is an edgy übermench among (sheeple) and bestial blacks.

>>22190432
Looks interesting, I might try it.

>>22196723
Girls tend to keep promises better than boys. They won't do things out of the blue like give you $1000 to fix your car, but if they say they'll bake you a cake for you birthday or you two go out for dinner, she'll ingrain it into her head. And they HATE it when you miss out on a promise to them. They're also much more obedient when given orders. Hence why they never can start things to get things done needing consent from others, but they'll do things if you order them to.

>>22196504
>chimpanzee striptease
but why?

>>22194587
>Do you have a monster I can fight?