/lit/ - Literature

>>22144386
His whole schtick seems like a massive cope for his art sucking.

>>22144386
Did you read it OP?

>>22144668
What qualifications does this guy have to write a commentary on Genesis?

>>22144687
he makes mediocre drawings

I'm trying my best every day to not be a disgruntled right-winger but his talks on modern media makes a lot of sense to me. Sometimes it's comforting to know that I'm not the only one who sees it for what it is

>>22144668
I actually did run my eyes over it, enough to tell that it's completely arbitrary. I doubt most contemporary Orthodox theologians would see eye to eye on it, let alone the Church Fathers as he claims, let alone ancient Hebrews! It's not even Jungian, as some would think. It's made up whole cloth.

>>22144745
>Church Fathers
Which is why he doesn't quote them to substantiate his claims. In fact the book has very few references, IIRC: there's not many quotes you can find for something that you are making up on the spot (which is fair game, I suppose, but at least be honest about it).

>>22144745
They seem to be heavily influenced by pic rel

Give me the lowdown on this guy. I hear ortholarps talk about him all the time. Listened to part of one of his podcasts on the grail mythology and had to turn it off when he started talking about how the reason imaginative storytelling developed in the medieval west (and not in Byzantium) was because westerners were trying to cope with the fact that their sacraments didn’t connect them with god anymore after the schism.

>>22144386
>completely novel and unprecedented interpretation
As a young atheist years before this culture war nonsense I read some stuff by Johannes Kepler about science where he kept mentioning God which made me think I should give his kind of interpretation a chance. That and some Justin Martyr was all I needed to arrive at a similar "unprecedented interpretation" years before I heard about this guy.
The interpretations you think of as authoritative because they're promoted by pop media don't align with how Christians in the past acted and wrote. This guy makes sense, you do not.

>>22144813
Why did you turn it off? That's an incredibly based take.

>>22144926
You got it all wrong, dimwit. I don't really care whether it is novel, or old or authoritative or not. The problem is that he claims that his and his brother's extremely idiosyncratic and _modern_ interpretation of Genesis is how the ancients and medieval saw it, which is bs. I challenge anyone to back his and his brother's interpretation with the Christian Church Fathers. Pro tip: you can't (not that I expect a moron like you to even be able to read let alone do that, kek).

>>22144386
I don’t know much about Christianity but I prefer it to the weird scholastic syllogism shit online Catholics do to “prove”

>>22144968
Maybe when it comes to some claims. Be specific. The bulk of what he says seems closer to the church fathers like what Justin wrote, what later Christians in my area in the 12th century wrote and what Kepler wrote than any of the actually literally modern mainstream nonsense. The entire burger tradition that everyone in the world now associates with the word "Christianity" is modern. Most of it makes no sense on any level because it's a product of reading texts written for academics in a certain context while completely ignoring any hint of that context.

>>22144946
It’s historically absurd. A ridiculously sour-grapes justification for why Byzantine culture lacked a lovely thing that many other cultures (including the oh-so-evil west) possessed.

>>22144386
He just got it from le Guénon
>prejudiced and bigotted views
Ah yes, everyone who disagrees with a leftard is simply a bigot. Good argument, dumdum.

>>22145225
Byzantium is r3ddit-tier

>>22145293
Even the orthodox Slavs had great imaginative storytelling and cycles of epic poetry, something he conveniently ignored. Byzantium was unusually sterile in this regard and he’s trying to spin that as proof of how their religion was the best.

>>22145315
>Byzantium was unusually sterile in this regard and he’s trying to spin that as proof of how their religion was the best.
Sounds similar to what a Protestant would say about the Orthodox lacking pop songs and chairs.

>>22145315
We can acknowledge Athos as something great while noting that it is stagnant. The monks reiterate an already working system more than they attempt to reach something new. The tribes in the north and west were wilder and more exploratory, physically and in their stories. The explorer cultures caused the schism and kept moving away from their roots over time as explorers do while the monks repeated the same things for 1500 years.

>>22145363
>literature is just like pop songs dude
Remind me why you’re on a literature board?

>>22145293

>>22145394
>can't get comparisons, let alone metaphors
It's about complaining about stagnation and having to add needless things to remedy a problem that is of your own creation. Like a child complaining he's getting bored and expects to be entertained. Like Prots having to turn their churches into hip jazz music venues to get more people to join.

>>22145448
Imaginative literature is not an innovation. It’s been a feature of nearly all traditional societies, produced alongside explicitly philosophical/theological writing, and communicating the same metaphysics

>>22144386
For me it's jay dyer, but you should dial8

>>22144386
Any christian leader or even those less than any kind of leader position who have tried to call for clarity and virtuous orderliness in how people live their lives only get more validated with each passing year as everything increasingly fragments and dissolves into confusion. And ultimately people like that would agree on quite a lot with what those two are trying to explain if they had a discussion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy6SUUgmnrw

OH NO NO NO NO

>>22146883
lmao, this video is funny

>>22146883
All ecelebs must hang.

>>22147101
It's disgusting and so are you.

>>22144386
Yet another mediocre thoughtleader for mediocre minds. Snorefest

I don't think his interpretation is novel at all. He's right that people used to have a symbolic understanding of the Bible. The church fathers understood scripture as having 4 senses, all of which are correct, including the literal. But Pageau massively favors the symbolic meaning of the Bible over the literal meaning. Like if you asked him "Did Jonah really get swallowed by a whale?" he would say "This is such a bad question. Pre-modern people didn't see it that way at all. See, the whale represents the grave and Jonah spends three days in there, so it symbolically represents the death and rebirth of Christ," totally ignoring your question.
But if you asked some medieval priest, they would say "Of course! That's what the scripture says. Also, God used this historical event to symbolically represent the sacrifice of Our Lord. Also it teaches us how humans are and should be."
Pageau actually believes in the Bible in the exact same way that Peterson does. The only difference is he likes going to church.

Pageau thinks there's sacred art, coomer trash art, and nothing in between. According to him El Greco belongs in the latter category

I like Pageau but Jay Dyer is better for philosphy and theology.

>>22144386
based

>>22147574
>Also, God used this historical event to symbolically represent
Academics at the time were used to this even when it doesn't come from God. Plato used historical events to symbolically present his ideas. This makes the brain of the average modern autistic academic explode.

>>22145677
So were chairs. But Orthodox don't have them. What does that tell you?

>>22144386
I don't know much about this guy except that he is an artist and was buddies with Jordan Peterson. QRD on his views?

>>22147924
He did a good video with Jay Dyer where they talk about symbolism.
By the way, this is very important to understand in the Orthodox worldview: Something being symbolic does NOT mean that it isn't literal as well. It can be both literal and symbolic.
A lot of people make this mistake where they think "Oh this thing in the Bible is symbolic, so that means it didn't literally happen." That's wrong.

>>22146883
>He uses obfuscatory language to preach to homophobic chuds!!!!!
Am I misunderstanding his critique?

If his basic premise is that there’s a symbolic aspect which has been lost in modernity that seems to me pretty indisputable.

>>22147623
I know for a fact that’s not true because the one and only video of his I’ve watched talked about the history of art and ran entirely counter to this assertion. He even mentions El Greco in the video.

>>22147986
His first point is that icon carving is something Pageau made up.
The guy that says shit like that is making a video complaining that someone is misrepresenting the history of Christianity online. There is no critique just projection. To critique the meaning you have to understand it.

A man was visiting an Orthodox Christian monastery and a monk came up to him and said "There is something terribly wrong with you. You spiritually have a foul stench about you."
The man didn't understand what the monk could be talking about.
They met again that night and had a conversation. Eventually it came out that the man had written a book supporting evolutionary theory. This was the cause of the foul stench! The monk told him that evolutionary theory is a Masonic deception and contrary to Orthodox Christianity.
The man later renounced his belief in evolution.

>>22148088
In the USA, Orthodox priests (especially Greek ones) are known for being masons thoughbeit

>>22148120
Generally, the Greeks tend to be the most liberal Orthodox by far.
ROCOR are usually the most conservative, followed by Serbian and Bulgarian.

>>22148088
Visibly shook he dropped his copy of Selfish Gene and renounced the demonic practice of game theory.
An icon of the great Theotokos wept tears of joy and the evolutionist cur was banished to Romania.

>>22148133
https://youtu.be/Y0sdPLJO3cE

>>22148151
Nothing they say is incompatible with evolution. Everything they say like everything in the Bible reiterates a completely different state of being before and after the fall. Before the fall there was no adversity, no changes in weather, no conflict between animals. It's not a physical place but the ideal as it existed before time, space and sin.

>>22144650
say that again?
>>22144386
I can't speak for Matthieu, but where exactly does Jonathan go off the rails?
>rally disgruntled right-wing incels
>validate their prejudiced and bigotted views
You mean Jay Dyer? Pageau should break off from the containment that is Daily Wire though.

>>22148125
>his country is a literal shithole but he can't help but shilling for it to clueless Westerners online
See, if you were a liberal I would've called you delusional, ideologically possessed, cringe etc but since you're not, I must call you a based trad savior of the white race and true believer. Just two more posts and everyone will become Orthodox and based like Russia.

>>22148192
ROCOR are different from the MP.

>>22148192
https://youtu.be/os2wE_cLqAg

>>22148192
Stalin had nice aesthetics but not as nice as the orthobased church.
https://youtu.be/9KOCkjEjFhw

>>22148190
Why is there this hate against Jay Dyer? Nothing he says is wrong.

>>22148232
He's a thug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4_xh7vs4gY

>>22148259
But he is right.

>>22148259
>Tattoo
I will now ignore your message

>>22148120
Meletios Metaxakis was a freemason. He started the ecumenist movement and changed the calendar to that end. GOarch and Constantinople are the hotbeds of liberalism and globalism but so are AOCANA and OCA. In any case its better that people go to those churches than none at all, at least for now. Those churches are necessary for most converts.
>>22148195
They're in communion with MP. There was a schism in the ROCOR because of this. The true Orthodox didn't want to join a church that was compromised by the KGB in Soviet times and is now compromised by the current Russian government which has pro-Soviet nostalgia. But again its still better to go to an Orthodox church than not at all.

>>22148192
>le ebin ironic and self-aware post
Cringe. Kys

American ortholarper here.
Which is the best out of the following options:
>ROCOR
>OCA
>GOARCH
>Antiochian
>other not listed

>>22148345
ROCOR is definitely the most conservative by far.
OCA and GOARCH have been subverted by liberalism and wokeness.
Antiochian is usually somewhere in the middle.
Serbian and Bulgarian are conservative too.

>>22148345
The OCA church I go to is great. We have an excellent priest and lots of converts.

>>22148190
Fine, his whole schtick is a cope for his art being incredibly mid.
Happy?

>>22148377
>mid
zoom back over to reddit

>>22148324
You are a plague.

>>22148393
You don't want people to become Orthodox? What is the problem here?

>>22148382
Is it back up?

>>22147623
>El Greco not a coomer
Anon Pls

>>22148041
Watch from 18:00
https://youtu.be/1WYh20sYBsQ

>"angel upskirts"
>"strange inversion"
>"very disturbing"
>imaginary foot in man's ass
>"strange sexual element"
>decapitated head in crotch = gay!
>"don't you see?? the mountains are penis shaped!"
Well? I agree with Pageau on a lot of things but this shit is just plain stupid.

>>22148494
Icons are windows into heaven. That is to say that they are transcendental in a real way.
Starting with Giotto Western iconography became more sensuous. It shows a fall from the stillness of transcendence to the ecstasy of aesthetic stimulation; how something looks in and of itself rather than seeing it as a bridge to something and looking through the art toward that something. The use of this spiritual perception declined and the focus on innovation for its own sake and sensual gratification emerged.
That is what Pageu is talking about here. Camille Paglia would probably agree in her own way (and think its a good thing).

>>22144386
>validate their prejudiced and bigotted views
>says the anti-child rape fascist
wow, another hypocrite, saying "discrimination is bad" then discriminating against child rape. Fucking pseud

>>22148657
>Camille Paglia
Who cares what some deranged feminist pedo thinks? Why would you even bring her up in this thread?

>>22148756
Someone outside of Orthodoxy or the Traditionalist School perceived the same thing and had the opposite opinion on it. That vouches for the subjects existence.

>>22148133
LMAO

>>22148657
I understand this sentiment and, as an artist, agree with it wholeheartedly. However Pageau seems to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. Do you honestly believe that El Greco's work is nothing more than about eliciting base stimulation, essentially no different than Thomas Kinkade? I feel there's a lot more to this, but I find it hard to put into words (which, in fact, is why I'm an artist). Lewis' sehnsucht and Traherne's poem Shadows in the Water comes near to what I mean. Icons are abstract, transcendental, etc, but these other works of art are haecettic, divinely immanent. There's something uniquely Christian about it.

>>22148852
Whenever I see people bullshitting with each other about these irrelevant people, I can't help but think it's astroturfing. You just read these completely irrelevant people's books where they schizoshitpost for 500 pages about LARPing bullshit? I've never met a Christian that's read the fucking Bible.

>>22148345
>>22148373
>There are actual Ortholarper Zoomers here.

>>22148852
The personal does not belong in sacred art because it is transpersonal. In Orthodoxy, Christians pray against the imagination, dreams, and even memories. Orthodoxy is an ascetic religion even for laypeople. Romanticism and visionary flourishes have no place in it. Those belong to the subjective existential human realm. Pageau's probably just trying to show the difference between the two. If he ever goes to far as to call the other forms of art inferior they're only inferior for the purpose of sacred art. It doesn't meant the Old Masters weren't skilled geniuses of their craft.

>>22147916
Wrong. Chairs weren’t introduced in the west until the counterreformation. Definitely an innovation that marks the degeneration of western liturgics.

>>22148088
>>22148125
>>22148221
these dudes want to emulate muslims so badly while also holding onto their christian beliefs
fucking bizarre

>>22149159
I know that we can't expect Roman papalists to know anything about theology, but your post is very ironic because the Roman papalist doctrines of Filioque, Absolute Divine Simplicity, and Thomism make your idea of God much closer to Islam than Orthodox theology is.

>>22149159
Orthodox church existed long before Islam though

>just become tradcath bro

>>22149123
So on the one hand you have christians like Blake and Coleridge who believed that the imagination is a valuable, if not our primary, spiritual faculty, and on the other hand you have the Orthodox who think that stuff is nothing more than prissy daydreaming that is a hindrance at best. What caused this divergence?

>>22149273
Orthodox have the doctrine of the nous.
Westerners lost that.

>>22148232
>Nothing he says is wrong.
That’s incorrect, Jay Dyer’s attempted “”refutation”” of non-dualism (which he inaccurately refers to as monism) by saying that it makes it impossible to know anything because everything known is an illusion is wrong. It’s wrong because in non-dualism the non-illusory ultimate reality is one’s own self and is self-evident and self-disclosing when one’s false views are corrected or abandoned, thus, the point that changing phenomena are illusory is no impediment to directly intuiting the ultimate reality of God.

Jay Dyer wouldnt last two minutes trying to argue this against anyone educated in Vedanta like Swami Sarvapriyananda. It’s only because his fans are western Christians who dont study that stuff that nobody notices or calls him out for this amateur mistake. Anyone who thinks that Jay Dyer has done a deep study of eastern metaphysics and that he identifies issues in it which are only solved in eastern orthodoxy is laughably clueless.

https://youtu.be/xJvlo7X603w

>>22149331
>It’s wrong because in non-dualism the non-illusory ultimate reality is one’s own self and is self-evident and self-disclosing when one’s false views are corrected or abandoned
Jay has destroyed the cogito argument many times.

I don't really care about anything else he or his brother have said. I just think the metaphor of clothing he uses for technology (among others) is really insightful.

>>22146883
Thought Slime is an immense faggot and so are you for having watched even one of his videos

>>22149344
>Jay has destroyed the cogito argument many times.
That’s not the cogito argument. The cogito argument of Descartes is “I think, therefore I am”, that’s not what non-dualism is claiming. It simply doesn’t work to try to refute it by pointing to things in western thought that seem tangentially related, this is *also* clueless.

>>22149331
Christ was a non-dualist trinitarian.

>>22144386
It's funny how you disgusting trannies think being a disgruntled right wing prejudiced bigoted incel is a bad thing or something to be ashamed about. Pageau is based, and you're a fag.

>>22149293
we have a phonetic version of 'nous' which informs us, via third parties, what is supposed to be true and what is supposed to be false; in fact it guides and directs our entire civilization.

>>22149467
Agreed, and Jay Dyer is even more based.

>>22149467
>>22149514
Don't forget Fr. Peter Heers. They hate him.

https://orthodoxreflections.com/fr-peter-heers-why-him-why-now-is-the-american-deep-state-involved/

>>22149595
Agreed. Fr. Peter Heers is a great teacher.

>This isn't American evangelical boomerism, it must not be real Christianity

>>22145225
>It’s historically absurd
Lol this is their whole schtick.
When historically absurd: dude you don't get it. it's like symbolic.
When historically relevant at all: literally muh tradition.

>>22144386
Nothing he says is even that political; he could get into culture war shit way more than he does if he wanted to.

>>22144813
I listened to that podcast and I don't remember him saying that at all. He disagrees with a lot of what Protestantism did to Christianity but he rarely gets into the specifics of Catholic vs Orthodox.

>>22149772
>Catholic vs Orthodox
Jay Dyer is better for this topic. He makes papalists so butthurt it's unreal.

>>22148435
now this I can fap to

>>22144968
What specifically does he say that you can't find in the Church Fathers, or that the Church Fathers wouldn't agree with? Sounds like you've just got a vendetta and want to dismiss him while being vague about it.

>>22149758
we get it, symbolism and tradition are beyond you. try reading some guenon (pbuh) and maybe it won't be. you don't read and your shit is all retarded.

>>22149774
Jay Dyer wanted to start some beef with Pageau or something iirc, this was a few years ago

>>22149785
They had some disagreements in the past, but they both moved on from it. They did a video together recently.
https://www.youtube.com/live/zMi2Ra8c52A?feature=share

>>22149785
They're on good terms now

>>22146883
Pageau wanted to talk to/debate him after this video but he wouldn't do it. ThoughtSlime is a clickbaity breadtube grifter faggot.

>>22149774
My preferred eceleb would curbstomb yours, symbolically.

>>22147574
This, exactly this

Pageau favors only the symbolic in his essays, and completely ignores the factual/historical aspect. The way this guy dodges questions then acts like he knows something is truly infuriating.

>>22144386
Who is Mr Forehead here?

breadtube caths are in fact a thing, maybe even in this thread at this very moment...

>>22149890
Probably because the symbolic is what is neglected and never really understood in our time and place. Its the one aspect people need help understanding.

>>22149781
Yes the French muzzie has all the answers for Christians... Keep having a real and/or symbolic one.

>>22150045
Guenon is more complicated than 'lol he who convert to muzzieism!!!!' and is essential for any honest opponent of modernity. If you don't understand why Guenon is important you are a faggotized beast of burden normie. Keep having a normal one.

He is the OG (Original Guenon)

>>22150500
Will this be less underwhelming than Jung's Man and His Symbols?
>dude a little girl's vague dream foreshadowed her death lmao

>>22149467
Haven't watched much of his stuff at all, but i read Guénon and what he says seems to be in accordance with it. I watched his discussion/debate with styxhexenhammer666 and styx was made to look like a petty materialist child.

>>22144729
>I'm trying my best every day to not be a disgruntled right-winger but his talks on modern media makes a lot of sense to me
youtube qrd link?

>>22150631
That was the only time I ever paid attention to anything with Styx and he came out of it simultaneously looking like a materialist fedora and also a cringe new age """occult researcher""" schizo.

>>22150802
This is a good one https://youtu.be/gFxu3Q71NvE

>>22147574
Good post

>>22147574
Nothing is literal https://youtu.be/2VLPDSRL5f4

>>22152029
I was going to bump this thread but I'm glad you did it for me. I couldn't think of anything to write.

https://youtu.be/1WYh20sYBsQ
This video of his was pretty good.

Any religious person that starts courting rightoids will soon find themselves having to choose between their religion and state worship and racism.

>>22152467
Why?

>>22152471
Because rightoids aren't religious, they will simply use what is useful about religion to get what they want, which is rallying the masses around their bullshit. In other words, they think religion is useful propaganda.

>>22152483
What part of religiousity in particular do they lack?

>>22152509
Judging by your line of questions you're probably exactly the kind of /pol/goloid I'm talking about.

>>22152516
How do you know so much? I hope these aren't baseless asumptions.

>>22152522
Everything I say has historical precedent. Go to Wiki and search for the term "Positive Christianity".

>>22152524
Okay, thanks for clarification. All of your knowledge of these matters are based on histories, and the assumption you make is that Pageau is repeating history.

>>22149785
Lol really? What was the initial cause.

>>22152529
I think Pageau is doing himself a disfavor by courting people who care more about the racial makeup of their neighbor than they care about Jesus Christ.

>>22152530
Jay made some comments that Pageau lifted some of Jay's grad work and claimed it his own. But they did squash it.
Though Pageau fans seems to have strong allergy to "orthobros" and tend take a very distant and detached approach to politics.

>>22144386
god delusion by richard dawkins

>>22152531
>people who care more about the racial makeup of their neighbor than they care about Jesus Christ.
like?

>>22144386
defamatory shill thread with no argument or substance.

>>22144968
tell us how the ancients and medieval saw it then.

>>22149273
Here is what Valentin Tomberg says about this:
"(“The Inner Light”), published at St. Petersburg in 1915/16—gave a well-
documented exposition of the doctrine of orthodox mystics concerning true
and false illumination. There he reproaches the mystics of western
Christianity for their doctrine (namely that of admitting, under certainconditions, visions and illuminations of an intellectual nature), i.e. for not
rejecting visions and illuminations from the outset.
Thus, the mystics of eastern Christianity are so impressed by the reality
and the danger of the sphere of mirages that they prefer to renounce all
spiritual experience of a visionary or intellectual nature, whatever it may be,
rather than risk the danger of confrontation with the reality of this sphere.
With respect to the mystics of western Christianity, they are also conscious
of the reality of this sphere and its dangers, but they do not reject outright
all vision and intellectual illumination."

>>22148232
Jay Dyer is arrogant and obnoxious. He's even rude to his own wife in front of the camera (imagine what he's like when there's no one filming). It wouldn't surprise me if she ended up divorcing him for psychological abuse.

>>22154741
simp

>>22154861
Men should act like kings, not pigs.

>>22154741
imagine caring simp faggot

>>22154741
I agree. I'm a fan of his work but he seems like a douche. Never seen him be rude to his wife though. He needs to drop the ego / his pride and he will become even better.

>>22155926
Even if you don't like his personality, he is very intelligent and knowledgeable in philosophy and globalist conspiracies.

>>22154741
Yeah his personality isn't compelling. His work on conspiracy theories is top tier. I was familiar with him from like 10 years ago when he was in the circle of freeman fly and isaac weishaupt. I had no idea he became Orthodox and more serious about the conspiracy stuff. It used to be basic stuff about hollywood satanism but now he goes into great detail using the elites own texts about their overall agenda. And the theological and philosophical stuff is impressive too. I thought he was just another mark dice type guy to be honest so he really showed me.

You need a sense of humor to like Jay, if you don't you can always stick with Pageau

>>22155977
Your shitty impersonations aren't funny, Jay.

>>22149467
Why would I prefer to be self hating and not have sex?

>>22149273
Blake is often called heterodox even by Protestant/Catholic standards and in fact he was a satanist. He's very explicit about it in The Marriage of Heaven and Hell, early on in the book he says he's channelling the voice of the devil. The chaotic, imaginative states of attention are not spiritual but the very antithesis of spiritual, they are demonic, a fall from the human state. You may be mesmerized by sublime imagery and "genius" but it is nothing more than a trick. A literal magic trick. This is understood by both the Orthodox and the Traditionalists. Don't mess with things that want you to lose control of the "I".

>>22156127
>Don't mess with things that want you to lose control of the "I".
good post

How come Greek Orthodox are so much more liberal than all the other Orthodox?
https://youtu.be/XcKn7DvckRI

>>22144386
The more I look into Orthodoxy in the West the more I think it just some sort of psyop, not unlike that report that was leaked a while ago from the FBI saying that young Catholics are extremists, perhaps it's an effort to de-radicalise disenfranchised or demoralized men like this guy >>22149467


Look at Pageau, he content is genuinely interesting but he is associated with the likes of Peterson, Shapiro, The Daily Wire etc. It's a huge red flag. Nothing about Orthodoxy in the West seems authentic at all, it solely exists online. North America has OCA and ROCOR, but these just don't exist in other countries. I'm genuinely interested in Orthodoxy but I cannot help feel inorganically 'pushed' towards it as it is either online or it is a ethnic social club with no in between.
>>22144668
This book is a load of shit, it does a good job of explaining about how to think of things symbolically but it literally has zero citations, and as a result it can be completely disregarded
>>22149514
This guy is a prideful POS and it is so glaringly obvious he is a grifter, think I watched some video of some tradcath exposing him as a LARPer too

>>22156127
Blake believed the established Church to be Satanic and regularly engaged in modes of rhetorical reversal, but I wouldn't expect a retarded tradlarper to understand that.

>>22156493
>Pageau is a psyop
are you fucking crazy

>>22156493
are you ok

>>22156493
You need to calm down and stop being so emotional.

>>22145225
byzantine literature is massive wtf are you talking about? literally created the romantic novel. had a giant poetic and theatric tradition, developed and preserved ancient greek genres and had the most comprehensive and original theology in the christian world. this is not even mentioning the encyclopae and historical annals.
uneducated westoids talking about literally any other culture is ridiculously pathetic

>>22156554
Not him directly, just the whole 'network' he exists within, particularity the Daily Wire
>>22156588
I'm not?
My point is that I have been on the internet from the Atheist+ days and I'm noticing the same trend when it comes to Orthodoxy on the internet. That's all I'm saying, sorry if it sounded a bit schizo

He's an icon carver and nothing more.
He's not profound and often he's quite cringe.

>>22148232
Well what does what he say have to do with the person?
The person is a grifter, a shithead, a conspiratard.

>>22156672
>conspiratard
go get another vaccine

>>22156682
You've been programmed by hollywood to give me that reply.

>>22156672
>grifter
You people use this word for anyone who doesn't agree with the normie liberal worldview.

>>22156685
It has a meaning. I'm also illiberal.
Why are you >>22156682 so retarded? You seem young, sub 18.

>>22156686
I will never get the vaccine.

>>22156493
tbqh I don't think Pageau's ties to Daily Wire are a huge deal. They came to him and his content for that isn't really any more culture war-tinged than his normal stuff (I wouldn't know though because I don't subscribe to fucking Daily Wire).

I wouldn't be surprised if there was an attempt by the alphabet agencies to push potential far-right radicals towards Orthodoxy/traditionalist Catholicism. So much of the discussion of these faiths online is weirdly connected to political connotations that just are not there if you know anything of them in real life.

He is right.

Why do Orthos get so butthurt over the Immaculate Conception?
>Luke says Gabriel calls Mary "full of grace"
>Full of grace = devoid of sin
>Devoid of sin = devoid of original as well as actual sin
>Devoid of original sin = Immaculate Conception
Getting mad at this because its implications were refined in later tradition feels like a very Protestant way of thinking.

>>22156686
You know there are tons of Orthodox priests who spoke out against the covid "vaccine" right? It is not just some sort of online thing at all.
In fact, Saint Paisios prophecied it and he said that it would be a forerunner of the mark of the beast.

https://youtu.be/QVCtkoqE7Cc

>>22156754
Absolutely based

>>22152483
Imagine thinking you can be a leftoid and a """christian""". I suppose Christianity is really about loving faggotry, feminism, and yearning for third worldist 'religious socialism'. It's obvious who's injecting political leanings into religion.
>>22156657
You are literally a schizo. New Atheism was an organic bottom up phenomenon and so are tradcaths/orthobros, something isn't a psyop because it's a trend you don't understand.

>>22156754
https://youtu.be/t7s6-5j_2TE

>>22157008
this is catchy

>>22148259
Have you even seen the video you've posted or at least read the article he's also reading from?
It's from a Fordhamite.
Are you a woke retard with "protect trans kids" flags in your room? Do you insist that abortion is a religious service?

Don't know if the fat tattooed guy in the video is aware but it benefits Jay Dyer, makes him objectively based.

He's live btw:
https://youtu.be/agnYqrvObQA
seems sharper today and less of a clown

>>22157288

>>22157343

>>22157288
Seems like regular Jay to me

>>22157349

>>22157349
Definitely not. You're clearly not consuming his content in large quantities.

>>22157372
He is being very patient right now.

>>22157372
These baseless assumptions only hurt you

>>22157390
>t. mentally ill solipsist
nothing more to be said or done, take care

>>22157408
How do you know so much?

listening to the Jay dyer stream

>>22156493
Internet Orthodoxy can get pretty fake and gay. Most Orthodox Churches consist of relatively normal people striving to practice the genuine faith. The ones with a decent number of converts singing mostly in English are ideal.
>Look at Pageau, he content is genuinely interesting but he is associated with the likes of Peterson, Shapiro, The Daily Wire etc.
Definitely agree.

>>22148232
Jay says a lot of wrong things. his entire approach is wrong. his mindset is wrong. and he just does not attend services (I go to his parish outside of Nashville). he's a fraud, desu. he is leading a lot of people in the wrong direction.

>>22149331
the funny part that the west cannot understand is that Eastern Orthodoxy rejects ALL metaphysics!
Dyer makes the mistake that the purpose of Ecumenical Councils was to define an Orthodox philosophy and metaphysics.

>>22144799
Everyone just keeps repeating this stupid meme that St Gregory of Nyssa was a universalist.The idea that a Saint could have "fully heretical" theology is very bizarre, very Barlaamite. Modern academics are cringe and wrong about most things.
Dyer is totally wrong about St Gregory of Nyssa. This is the first mention of gender in the section on the creation of man. Everything before this is pretty much talking about what it means to be created in the image of God.
>"St Maximos has a mistake where he follows some of these neoplatonic arguments as did [St Gregory of] Nyssa and [St Gregory] Nazianzus that the fall also included a fall into two genders".

>>22157705
So here Fr Seraphim is affirming that St Gregory is saying that mankind was made, before the Fall, male and female, but the function of sexual reproduction didn't exist before the Fall.

>>22157705
Read on the soul and resurrection he presents a universalist view there.
Not even Staniloae who translated that text disagrees on that, no academic does either.

They just excuse Nyssa because he wrote that before it was condemned.

>>22157637
>Internet [thing] can get pretty fake and gay.
No shit?

>>22157637
>>22157684
>>22157693
Why is there this bizarre effort to slander Jay? This has to be some kind of coordinated operation.

>>22157637
>>Look at Pageau, he content is genuinely interesting but he is associated with the likes of Peterson, Shapiro, The Daily Wire etc.
I don't know about Pageau, but Jay has made fun of Shapiro for being a normie tier cuckservative with nothing interesting to say.
As for Peterson, Jay has said both good and bad things about him. Jay has commended him for seeming to at least try to move in the direction of Christianity, but he also has criticized Peterson's psychological metaphor understanding of God, his classical liberalism, and his weak philosophical arguments.

>>22157973
Well aside from the spiritual war the glowies mustn't like him because he exposes their plans very well, possibly the best in the public arena. I mean he gets it straight from the horse's mouth and he doesn't get bombastic or add weird stuff onto it. A real person would just say they don't like his humor or something not vaguely say that he's lying and just leave it at that. Bot behavior.

>>22158002
I think he's avoided outright saying so publicly out of the politeness that comes with having a friendly relationship, but Jonathan Pageau has hinted he thinks Peterson is ultimately too much of a fencesitter and needs to make that crucial commitment to a church at some point in his life for the sake of his soul

>>22156978
New atheism was born around the dawn of the normie internet as well as when religious terrorism was at its all time high in the West, it was only ever Islam and Christianity that was targeted. Tradcath orthobros were born at a time now with a large number of disenfranchised, demoralized, young (primarily white) men have completely dropped out of society and some have even resorted to shooting up schools. I believe there is overlap between all groups here.

I just don't think there is anything grassroots or organic with the internet these days.
>>22156704
>So much of the discussion of these faiths online is weirdly connected to political connotations that just are not there if you know anything of them in real life.
exactly
>>22157973
The guy is just cringe, unfunny and unlikable. most people can see through it

>>22144386
I don't know who that is but he looks like an old, less closeted Wendigoon.

>>22144386
modern right-wingers are basically hippies that are too lazy to actually read the bible. They care more about Trump than Jesus. It's pure pretense.

>>22157973
because he is what is wrong with Orthodoxy in the west. He is leading people down the wrong path.

>>22157973
It seems like one anon here from Nashville knows him somewhat personally, probably a personal grudge or there is a difference in theology that has grown into the need to complain about him.
The others seem like anti-trinitarians, either some protestant universalist or islamic, or Judaic
The last kind is more of the humorless intellectual who assumes it is not possible to marry humor with academic study.

I get it, Jay can seem mean sometimes and this is hardly funny. But it is typically the lack of humor in his critics more at fault here.

>>22159015
So which path is better?

>>22154598
Thanks. I was also curious if Tomberg said anything about Blake specifically but it looks like he never mentioned him

>>22159041
the path of the contemporary Saints (St Paisios, St Joseph the Hesychast, Geronda Ephraim of Arizona, Optina Elders, etc) and Holy elders. not the modern academics.

Every critic of Jay just says he is cringe, mean, unlikeable, etc.
None of them can actually show a specific example of where he is wrong.
It is such an obvious coordinated operation to slander him.

>>22156493
>I cannot help feel inorganically 'pushed' towards it as it is either online or it is a ethnic social club with no in between
Have you visited an Orthodox church, anon? genuine question

>>22159449
Do you schizos really believe that anyone who dislikes your chosen e-celeb of the month is part of a coordinated operation? Or were you those faggots in elementary school that had to call foul when you lost at a game on the playground?

>>22159215
>St Paisios
You know he prophecied the covid vaccine, don't you? He said that it would be a forerunner of the mark of the beast. Typically you anti-Jay types always say that "antivaxxers" are cringe conspiracy theorists.

>>22159467
He is leading lots of young men to Orthodoxy. What are you doing?

>>22159470
if you took the vax you must repent and take it to confession. we are antivax

>>22159449
see >>22149331

He may be knowledgeable about Orthodoxy but he is evidently clueless about non-western philosophy/metaphysics

>>22159481
That is also what Jay says and all the priests who support Jay's work.

>>22159449
Can you link something good by him? All I see posted is dumb shit.

>>22159493
on the satanic messaging in pop culture
https://youtu.be/0SbFzvTKTzM

on the Trinity
https://www.youtube.com/live/iSwsspJonjY?feature=share

on Logos and Logoi
https://www.youtube.com/live/pYxnJ5s8tjw?feature=share

>>22159493
>>22159511
also here is a really interesting one on renaissance art
https://youtu.be/ZtlaqnLsVoU

>>22159532
Let me guess, he shits on Renaissance art and thinks it was all made by evil catholic coomers?

>>22159551
no
if you give it a chance you will be impressed, there is lots of interesting knowledge in it

>>22159555
Alright then, I'll watch it

>>22159511
I don't enjoy listening to him. Pageau can teach me things, this guy does not try. The first video is scattered from the start, he doesn't draw me in or structure a specific point. He does not even present his ideas as ideas, he states them as fact and mostly refers to gossip about celebrities instead of some analysis of symbolism. He's not interesting.

>>22149123
Define ascetic you wordsalad nigger

>>22159841
Techniques of enstasy

>Enstasy (Gk., en-stasis, ‘standing into’). The experiences, or abolition of experience, arising as a consequence of those meditational, etc., techniques which withdraw the practitioner from the world, and even from awareness of the self. The word was coined in contrast to ecstasy. Examples are dhyāna, jhāna.

IIRC evola called it the dry path

>>22159476
Many on places like /lit/ could find usefulness in that one question. Getting down to the brass tacks, who are the people at least trying to show and explain where and why things have gone so wrong and giving some kind of rough guide on what to do, whether or not people decide to take it or leave it

>>22146883
Isn’t this guy some kind of leftie grifter?

>>22148308
Damn I guess no conversion for me

>>22148877
I’ve never met an atheist who didn’t at least admit to being in an open relationship

>>22152524
Positive Christianity is the correct interpretation anyways

>>22159449
Or maybe — just maybe — the reason so many people find him cringe, mean, unlikeable, etc. is because he is cringe, mean, unlikeable, etc.??

>>22162269
He's actually not that bad. I just started watching him more. The Matthew McConaughey stuff wasn't funny but that was it. It was only because he just kept going with it when it was hardly a joke to begin with.

>>22144386
<prejudice
Stereotypes are repeatedly seen patterns, and pattern recognition is a basic function of the mind. Prejudice and bigotry are heuristic techniques for self preservation based on pattern recognition. Stop gaslighting people.

>>22144386
Prejudice and bigotry are heuristic techniques for self preservation based on pattern recognition.

>>22156493
I think there is more truth to this than most people realize. I don't think people understand how many 100s of millions go into the "domestic counterterror" sectors in the Intel community per year. The Daily Wire/associated groups seem extremely controlled with regard to funding. It's no coincidence they never touch things of actual importance like financialization or domestic surveillance. as soon as I saw guys like Peterson and Pageau interview arch warhawk spooks like Vance, Rubio and Hawley I knew the jig was up.

>>22162440
Pageau has never interviewed anyone like that as far as I know. if I'm wrong please link.

>>22162469
the fact that he's on the Daily Wire payroll and closely associated with Peterson is proof enough. it's even more cringe that Peterson/Pageau closely associated with Netanyahu and the general "right-wing" neocon Israel/intelligence axis sphere. it's all so tiring and predictable.

>>22162440
>>22162469
>>22162497
I don't know about Pageau desu but Jay Dyer has criticized mass surveillance, the neocon agenda, and globalism many times.

>>22162497
>>22162643
Also, I don't know if you are aware of this, but the Orthodox church doesn't believe in zionism like many Protestants do. In fact, Orthodox consider it a heresy and an Antichrist agenda. Jay and many others have talked about this.
Many anons on 4channel seem to think that zionism is the default belief of any Christian, but that's not true.

>>22162440
Pageau has talked often about the increasing authoritarian power of the state but all the mechanical details of the systems involved is also all ultimately driven by the engulfing desire to grab more and more control and power by the powers that be. And that the powers that be are able to do what they're doing through the mechanics of how systems work because they have their own (darker) ways of taking a lot of advantage of what they see in the patterns of reality. He's obviously not an economist but he's said multiple times to brace for the coming simultaneous presence of chaos, dark spirits, and brutal top-down authoritarian power

Just want to mention to take care of yourselves physically, anons. Don't eat the processed goyslop and do the exercise you can. Do a trial of vit d3 and magnesium supplementation to see if it helps. I'm not sure what exact form the troubling times will look like and with everything that's going on, at least stay physically clean when there's so much mental shit flying around.
Especially if you live in america, buy your staple foods like wheat/rice/oatmeal organic even if you never buy anything else organic. Don't drink the tap water. Consider avoiding conventional cow dairy products like milk (again, especially in burgerland) to minimize physical inflammation, sheep and goat dairy is fine

>>22150560
filtered

>>22162952
Sheep and goat milk are really great, very easy on the stomach

I don’t think Jay Dyer is an operative, honestly. He gets demonetized too often, and is not astroturfed enough. But more importantly: his narrative lands too close to home for him to be a shill.
Peterson on the other hand, glows like a Christmas tree. He could well be an Israeli or CIA asset. His whole operation reeks of honeypot.
Now Pageau is a little bit harder to read. He associates with Peterson, sure, but that doesn’t make him guilty by association. His narrative is harmless enough: convert to baseddoxy, discuss symbolism, own the libs, btw buy my art and comic books. He doesn’t come anywhere near Jay Dyer’s level of exposition. Maybe he just wants to promote his art.

>>22163714
this desu

boomp

>>22164519
this desu

>>22144386
This isn't another
>muh nominalism!
guy, is it? Cuz I'm going to find him in real life at his home and butt rape him if he is.

>>22163714
>Peterson on the other hand, glows like a Christmas tree. He could well be an Israeli
But they can't have Christmas trees.

>>22163714
I like Mr. Dyer but given his semi-mainstream presence and his ties to both Dugin and Alex Jones, there is a very non-trivial chance that he is a limited hangout in service to one of the system's many agendas. Whitney Webb is like his liberal counterpart in this respect. Just to say, don't look to attention whores (narcissists) to be your surrogate dad, leave your mom's basement and get involved with in-real-life humans in in-real-life communities. Fuck all of this plastic ephemera. You can do better.

>>22165136
But what does Jay say that would be part of a glowie agenda? He has always been against surveillaince, the covid "vaccine", feminism, LGBT, BLM, globalism, neoconservatism, and so on. He is against everything that the system says!

>>22165244
Still doesn't follow that he isn't in their pockets. It's really irrelevant, I don't care about these stupid glowies, my main point was:
>Just to say, don't look to attention whores (narcissists) to be your surrogate dad, leave your mom's basement and get involved with in-real-life humans in in-real-life communities. Fuck all of this plastic ephemera. You can do better.

>>22165272
If he is against all that they stand for then why would be in their pockets

>>22165275
>If Alex Jones is against all that they stand for then why would be in their pockets.
>If Joe Rogan is against all that they stand for then why would be in their pockets.
>If Whitney Webb is against all that they stand for then why would be in their pockets.

>>22165296
what is the answer???

>>22165300
You tell me.

>>22165307
I don't know.

>>22165316
I don't know either. It's not easy because we lack real leaders, so it's understandable to make do with what we have, but these e-people aren't real people, and I would prefer to steer potentially vulnerable Anons away from these potential wolves.

>>22165340
There is litterally nothing stopping any real person from having a youtube channel. Jay is a real person, I met him and jamie in Nashville.

>>22165369
Were they nice?
I know that people call Jay mean a lot, but I think he seems like a nice guy as long as you aren't being annoying.

>>22165369
Lol, bro, my posts are obviously not addressed to you. Cheers

>>22165383
Jay was very cool, he even recognized me from an old stream I hooked up with him and someone else. Worse thing you could say about him is he is a little bit shorter than you'd think and Jamie is maybe a tad shy in person. Jay seemed like an old friend from high school.
I heard Pageau is not exactly a social butterfly in person. But this is enough gossip for me already.

>>22165389
When is your subreddit unlocking? Soon I h

>>22165401
that was some weird shit from that guy

>>22165398
>he is a little bit shorter than you'd think
Oh nonononono…

>>22166191
I think he said he is 6'2".

>>22165136
>>22165272
>>22165296
I'd like to apologize for these posts. I shouldn't let mere supicion lead to such uncharitable conclusions about Mr. Dyer, when they're nearly completely groundless. Sorry about that.

>>22166582
all is forgiven