/lit/ - Literature

>>22123394
are you certain, OP?

>>22123394
Guenon says it happened in the west largely because of the individualistic and materially-concerned nature of western culture, and that this was accelerated by the spread of humanism, Protestantism, secularism. In India and China there were elements of proto-industrialization already present in pre-modern times like steel-working and various kind of factories producing artisanal goods, tools etc but the traditional mindset was better at preventing this from giving way to runaway modernization and an obsession with quantity over quality.

>>22123394
Because it was sheltered by Eastern European countries from any real threat

>>22123394
its a long process, its way older than christianity and even judaism,
its the atlantidean inheritance
to the orthodox hindu everything that is happening is merely an expression of the age of Kali,
semitic traditions appeared in the kali yuga so they can't even fathom anything beyond, so it was not just 'european psyche', but also the celts, the jews, greeks, romans, egyptians, etc

there's also the fact that the west didn't have the apparatus and flexibility to handle and sustain tradition
There were materialists and hedonists in china and India, but they simply didn't thrive there, because of the strong metaphysical backbone and the aristocratic character that sustained those civilizations
of course, today, everything is messed up, hindus for example, are contamined by the virus of scientism ("the vedas are scientific", "precursors of science" and all that shit) and the chinese fucked up everything last century, what took centuries to destroy in the west, they destroyed in a few years

> The era of Kali dates back to the year 3102 BC, and yet it does not begin until after the great heroic wars of the Kouravas and the Pandavas. Now, at that time, if Brahmanism had not yet reached all its developments, it existed in its principal points. The caste plan was, if not strictly closed, at least traced, and the period of the purohitas long since passed. Unfortunately there is something so huge about the figure of 3102 years that I do not want to press the conviction too much on this point, and I turn to another side.

> The Kaschemyrian era begins a little more modestly, 2,448 years BC. It is also said to be later than the great heroic war; therefore, it leaves an interval of 654 years between its beginning and the era of Kali.

> Uncertain as these two dates are, if one wants to look for more recent ones, one does not find any, and as one advances, the historical clarity, becoming more intense, leaves no room for doubt that one does not stray from the object sought. Thus, after a gap, in truth quite long, in the fourteenth century BC, we find Brahmanism perfectly established and organized, the liturgical writings fixed and the Vedic calendar established; it is therefore impossible to go any lower.

> We found the era of Kali too exaggerated: let's not talk about it. Let us reduce the number of years it requires and let us fall back on the Kaschemyrian era. One cannot descend further without making any Egyptian chronology impossible. In my opinion, it is far too much to concede to doubt. But, for what is in question here, I am satisfied with it. Let us not even consider that Brahmanism obviously existed long before this time and conclude that from the year 2448 BC to the year of the Lord 1852, 4300 years have passed, that the Brahmanical organization lives always, that it is today in a state comparable to the situation of the Egyptians under the Ptolemies of the 3rd century before our era, and to that of the first Assyrian civilization at different times, among others in the 7th century.

>>22123394
Evola already gives you the answer to this. Christianity instituted a radical dualism between sacred and profane, priestly and kingly. This naturally results in a long, protracted and indecisive struggle between priests and kings. The merchants win. The end.

>>22123400
No I am not

>>22123471
> because of the individualistic and materially-concerned nature of western culture

Are there any good pre modern examples of that?
Also why were westerners more individualists?

>>22123487
> so it was not just 'european psyche', but also the celts, the jews, greeks, romans, egyptians, etc

Elaborate anon

>>22123394
Didnt guenon wrote that it all started because the greeks lost the origins of their tradition and as such became more "humanist"?

>>22124147
Yes but Evola was wrong the Brahman caste is higher than the Kshatriya

>>22124345
That’s crazy how was Plato and pre Socratics humanist?

What did he think of neo Platonists

>>22124350
I am not exactly sure. Read introductions about a year or two. I didnt meant humanist in that way (and i might have confused them with the romans) but they clearly got out of and challenged their tradition with their own view of the world

>>22124346
Evola has literally never claimed the opposite, this bullshit idea is just an online meme.

>>22124350
There's some valid remarks to be made about the emphases of Greek culture but the exact same could be said about the Hindus. To be fully honest, Guenon in particular seems to have had a serious anti-European mania. It's a real shame because it has really deformed the historical legacy of his genius.

>>22123394
Read Heidegger. The West is historical, transformative in its orientation to being, has subject-philosophy as one stage and such like. Without subject-philosophy modernity and the technological world dominion would never have come.

>>22124369
>but they clearly got out of and challenged their tradition with their own view of the world
They were clearly extensions of Greek tradition.

>>22123394
The industrial revolution happened in Europe due to a number of factors, most important one may have been that it was more free, less centralized power and best suited for entrepaneourship. Also they had high prices on labour and low price on energy, so they were incentivized to create machines. Christianity made ppl believe everyone had human dignity so there were no slaves(increase labour price) and increase interfamily trust resulting in more cooperation and investment possibilities.

>>22123394
>why did this happen to Europe
persecution of the Knights Templar

Pope Pius XI BTFO Guenon and false “Traditionalism”:
>For since they hold it for certain that men destitute of all religious sense are very rarely to be found, they seem to have founded on that belief a hope that the nations, although they differ among themselves in certain religious matters, will without much difficulty come to agree as brethren in professing certain doctrines, which form as it were a common basis of the spiritual life. For which reason conventions, meetings and addresses are frequently arranged by these persons, at which a large number of listeners are present, and at which all without distinction are invited to join in the discussion, both infidels of every kind, and Christians, even those who have unhappily fallen away from Christ or who with obstinacy and pertinacity deny His divine nature and mission.

>Certainly such attempts can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little. turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion.

The Renaissance happe in in Europe because it was a rebirth. The rebirth of Greco-Roman culture. That's it. Read some history books before making yourself a retard.

>>22124338
>Elaborate
all the countries invaded by the Sea Peoples underwent to their influence. Even Egypt was later governed by two Libyan dynasties belonging to Sea Peoples (10th-8th century BC). There is no doubt that the Sea Peoples were the descendants of the Atlantean colonies, who were continuing their evil conquest plan of whole the world. The Egyptians called themselves Rutennu, the red people, and red men is the meaning of the Phoenician name, the ancient inhabitants of today’s Lebanon, one of the “Sea Peoples”. The Atlantean tradition was precisely the civilization of the red race, the color of the sun when it is setting and empurpling the Western sky; and color of the victim’s blood that the Atlanteans drank in their rites9. Even the worship of the red donkey, which we are discussing later, shows this disturbing presence in the Egyptian tradition. This demonstrates to what extent the Egyptians were influenced by Atlantean civilization.
Indeed, in the oldest period, Egypt was divided into two Kingdoms. The southern Kingdom, or upper Egypt, was devoted to the worship of Seth, the donkey headed anti-God (asura), while the northern Kingdom, or lower Egypt, had as the main deity Horus, the hawk headed God. The Pharaoh Meni10 unified the two Kingdoms and gave them a common legislation around 3500 AD. However in Egyptian Tradition two streams continued to live: the first of Atlantidean origin, corresponding to witchcraft worship of Seth, and the second one, the Horus sacred Dharma of Hyperborean origin. According to Egyptian mythology, the latter had arrived on the coasts of Africa from an Eastern country beyond the sea. It is fair to think that it was India. There are many clues proving this origin, as the form in which the Horus priests appeared: they had a śikhā on their shaved head, and wore a white dhoti under a leopard skin, as the śaiva ascetics. Instead, Seth’s evil cult transmitted a witchcraft sādhana to all other western civilizations11. That is the root of the any evil afflicting still today the West and which is propagating throughout the whole planet.
The red donkey headed Seth was the asura of the burning storms of the African desert. The Greeks called him Typhoon, (Gr .: Τυφωέυς read Typhéus), the burning one12.When Egyptian tradition extinguished, its wisdom continued in the other Mediterranean Religions under the shape of Hermeticism or Alchemy13. And in its bosom hiddenly propagated the Sethian seed.


https://vedavyasamandala.com/testi/tradizioni-occidentali/from-cosmos-to-chaos/

>>22124399
What is the Hindu?

>>22124496
Yes but for Guénon physical manifestations are a result of metaphysical principles

So what was the metaphysical principle that made modernity occur. I don’t think it’s just the Christian emphasis on human dignity

>>22125037
>vedavyasamandala
I knew this post was cringe

>>22123394
>why was it the west?
The west was the peak of human civilization with Greece and Rome, then christkikes came along and it turned into the dark ages (this is a fact and anyone who claims otherwise is an apologist). It is only logical that the west will begin again to be the best. Still not as good as the greco roman world but kinda close.

>>22124661
How do Catholics square this with ecumenism

>>22125383
Vatican II isn’t Catholic, Francis is an antipope

>>22125379
Are you retarded? Christianity ended degenerate practices like chattel slavery, cousin marriage, homosexuality/boyfucking, gladiatorial combat, and infanticide. It united Europe against the Muslim invaders and raised IQs via condemnation of incest which amongst the Muslims and pagans was rampant.

>>22125546
>if I repeat a lie long enough, the goyim will believe I'm telling the truth
Christcucks cannot be honest even for a moment when discussing their slave religion.

>>22125051
The emphasis of Western culture and religion switched from divine revelation to appealing to the human mind. This did not happen in Eastern Orthodoxy.

>>22123487
how could a more "metaphysically mature" civilization fall so quickly compared to the West?

>>22123394
>something latent in Christianity
Remember that the Renaissance, Reformation and revolutionary ideologies were all started in western catholic/protestant Europe. None of this happened in eastern orthodox Europe even though the texts which were "rediscovered" by the Renaissance scholars came from Byzantium. So instead of implying that there is something wrong with Christianity, I would suggest to look at what version of Christianity there is something wrong which provoked these events.

Nobody says the invention of farming happened because Drarbac and his cavemen mates worshiped a particular mammoth god. Same for the industrial revolution

>>22126807
the western degeneration developed gradually
but then they sent (initially, thanks to the church and their 'missionaries' !) the complete package (christianity, marxism, evolutionism, scientism, secularism, technological 'signs and wonders' , etc) to the whole world
and for some reason the chinese swallowed up everything at once, the result we all know
actually, I expressed myself wrongly, unlike the indians, the chinese were not a civilization with strong metaphysics(they were mostly concerned with cosmology), but they were very aristocratic, but mere aristocracy is not enough, as that can be destroyed through internal conflicts, foreign invasions, etc

>>22123394
Why the long face?

>>22126623
Cringe Eastern Orthodoxy you were literally owned by the KGB lol

>>22126845
You could argue that it’s racial though. I mean western and Northern Europeans just are more intelligent, thus the blue banana from Manchester to Milan.

Slavs and Greeks are objectively inferior im sorry ortho bro but it’s just true

Russians, Bulgarians, Romanians are a backward people.

So I think ortho bros didn’t have revolutions of modernity not because orthodoxy is soooo based bro but because Bulgarians and Russians are literally mongol creatures with peasant like dispositions.

You should see Spengler’s Faustian drive in the west. The Slavs in the east don’t have it, after all your name is slaves. Peasants, serfs, see Russian backwardness.

The Russians were owned first by Germanic Tsar’s then Jewish communism

The Russians have always been a owned people…

After all Constantinople fell, you were owned by the Turks, that’s right conquered. Yet you are the true faith? Fool

>>22126845
When did Catholics have a Soviet revolution? Oh That only happened in Russia the heart of orthodoxy

>>22124334
>Are there any good pre modern examples of that?
Well, it's harder to pick out in pre-modern times because the medieval era was when the west was most similar to traditional eastern cultures. I guess you can point to the renaissance as one example with people becoming increasingly influenced by ideologies like renaissance humanism that centered around prioritizing and elevating the human subject (really the individual) as the main object of discourse and concern.
>Also why were westerners more individualists?
I don't think Guenon ever pins down the exact reason, it could be due to the origins of western culture, possibly in conjunction with some racial/genetic element.

>>22124345
Guenon never accused the Greeks of being humanist but he does point to the Greeks losing some knowledge of their own ancient traditions and he cites a passage where Plato himself admits as such.