/lit/ - Literature

Mishima wrote mostly romance novels

They use female pseudonyms.

>>22121991
tolstoy wrote romance

>>22121991
Vast majority of relevant and influential romance - novels, poems, films - was penned by men.
Contemporary “romance” by women is just porn. Male authors, if they’re being honest, can’t really write anything but seething blackpills like that french goblin.

>Why don't men write romance novels?
>>22122005
>Nevermind...

it's common in anime and manga

>>22122058
Yeah but the ones written by males always suck

Better be a joke anon

>Her cunt was the world
>Fat pink mast
>Like a pair of rutting dogs
>Myrish swamp

>remains the most kino romance novel

>>22122431

>>22122467
It's a straight romance albeit thoughever

Men fundamentally do not understand female desire.

>>22122540
This doesn't work if she's not interested in you btw :(

>>22122540
I thought this was gonna be some really dumb faggy post but no actually that checks out. I will also add that women look for A LOT of emotional release with romance. This means turbulence, which includes suffering - but is not, it should be noted, pursued for the sake of the suffering itself. "Women just want to be treated like trash!" No. She wants to know that even if you treat her like trash, you still love her, that you're still sorry for being mean to her, that you will make up with her no matter how badly you two fall out. Some are simply hopeless basket cases, true, but these are not "normal" women in any sense of the word.
What else does a woman want in a romantic work that a man is not likely to write, and what is it that sets her work apart and (usually) makes it better than the work of a man of similar skill? As mentioned, there is conflict, more or less constant, because the presence of conflict actually serves as an illustration of the value of the relationship - the conflict is worth the romance. And women are very gifted with writing psychological conflict and the nuances of human behaviour. I am always impressed when I read a romance written by a woman, because they can make even the smallest exchange dramatic, even the straightforward situations appear nuanced, charged with meaning, conflict, love, remorse, tragedy. And maybe in their minds it really is like that. And it certainly interesting to see that kind of perspective. As for me, as a man, the type of compelling romance that I envision, that I would write, is completely free of conflict. It is pure loyalty, pure trust, pure and unswerving commitment. Romeo and Juliet is a typical example - they love each other so much that they are willing to die for their love. That is a man's, a warrior's conception of love, loyalty, honour, trust. For women it is a lot more cuddly. She wants to know that you won't hate her, ever, and that you'll cherish her always, no matter what.
Ultimately, the female vision is more dynamic and therefore more "interesting". Although I think the male conception is closer to God, to divinity.

>>22122540
>>22123343
Stop lying, or you're hopelessly naïve or sheltered and you've never seen a true Don Juan in action. There is nothing more trivial to understand, the so called nuances and complexities are paper thin. This constant lying is so annoying. Romance as a genre comes from comedy, the humor results from the woman being gullible and the man is always a liar but it works out in the end. Romance is literally a comedic genre historically, how else would you look at it without it being insane. Romantic Idealism is something completely different where the woman is just a symbol for another type of drama. Romeo and Juliet is a political drama, Rousseau's Julie is sociological
>it is most amusing to hear writers talking of the soul of the woman, of her heart and its mysteries, of the psyche of the modern woman. It seems almost as if even an accoucheur would have to prove his capacity by the strength of his belief in the soul of women. Most women, at least, delight to hear discussions on their souls, although they know, so far as they can be said to know anything, that the whole thing is a swindle. The woman as the Sphinx! Never was a more ridiculous, a more audacious fraud perpetrated. Man is infinitely more mysterious, incomparably more complicated

>It is only necessary to look at the faces of women one passes in the streets. There is scarcely one whose expression could not at once be summed up. The register of woman's feelings and disposition is so terribly poor, whereas men's countenances can scarcely be read after long and earnest scrutiny.

>>22123203
A little GHB for emergencies never hurt anyone

>>22122540
I'm trans btw

>>22123594
I never said that complexity is good. I do think that women are more complex. And I certainly think it is very entertaining to read about their complexity - possibly because my own character finds unravelling these things amusing. Women are necessarily a bit absurd and a bit unreasonable. Often times I read a story where the conflict would end with just one simple and sensible act. Yet, the woman writer does not write this, and the woman reader does not like this, whereas I would normally write and like just that. And in my story, the conflict would end. But not for the woman, who wants ever more dynamic, deeper, stimulating conflicts. Not suffering - conflicts, drama. Woman is made for drama, all of her skills, her capacities are exalted to their greatest heights, find their fulfilment in drama, their very purpose, from start to finish, is the ability to handle drama, not as man would, but as a woman would, as an instigator and as a specialist in her domain. Who could use deception against friends, against lovers, but woman? Who else could do it in such a way as to make us ask 'why, for God's sake, would you do that', rather than respond with indignant condemnation and a million curses? Who could, in all this, appear not monstrous but pitiable, if not woman?
Perhaps our society would reproach me for looking down on women, but I cannot help believing what I see, nor can I help feeling sympathy for them all the same. They are cute, and they write cute stories about dumb and hopelessly humane people. Man keeps his eyes on God, and woman, it seems, on humanity. We may be separated by a tremendous chasm, but I can't hate them, and I certainly can't hate their stories.

>>22122399
I remember reading certain parts and thinking this man is fighting his worst impulses while writing this and losing

>>22121991
Men write romance realistically, and work of this type isn’t generally considered to fit into the romantic genre. When women produce romance novels, they almost never allow for what often takes place in the real world of romance, where people often don’t end up together or, if they do, they end up largely indifferent to one another. For women, love achieves its apotheosis, its perfection, and simply stops there like it’s frozen. There’s no eventual resentment; no separation at death or any kind of tragedy even though the real world is full of such things. The closest thing a woman’s ever approached to writing a realistic romance novel is “Ethan Frome,” and even this fine work is marred by a somewhat ludicrous and confusing ending.

>>22121991
its called a vn

>>22122540
That just sounds pointless

>>22121991
They do. Look at Nicholas Sparks or whatever. It's just more common for us to put romance as a component of a novel on another topic. For men, romance is background while The Work is the foreground, and a woman's importance in a man's life is aggrandized in her ability to facilitate a greater effectiveness in The Work. For example, the aphorism "behind every great man is a great woman." The woman is a help-mate and augmenter of the man's capacity - totally critical, yet complimentary, and thus additive. For women, romance is the foreground. They instinctually know this, yet modern women rebel against their role as augmenter and are miserable and ungrounded as a result.

>>22121991
The best romance is written by men though.

>>22122540
All this literary masturbation goes straight into the shitter when the female wants to fuck Chad. She dresses in sexy clothes, they go out for a party, they get drunk, and then she gives him the old sloppy toppy in the backseat of his Corolla. That's the romance women want IRL

>>22124725
>Chad
>Corolla
Lmao, no. That's Timmy's car. Thanks to that Corolla, Stacy is now in Tyrone's Escalade getting BLACKED. Look at what you've done, anon. Tsk, tsk.

>>22124734
>implying bitches don't cream themselves over the sight of the 2023 Toyota Corolla Cross SUV with hybrid powertrains

I think men and women are both capable of writing quality romance

>>22122005
We need more romance like this

>>22121991
Amazon is full of a budding wave of men writing romances. Hell, dozens of fantasy books for men are quasi-romances where 'the boy gets a girl'. It's a fucking classic trope.

What do you think the recent rise in haremlit novels is? Books like pircrel are all the rage. Not exactly mainstream yet, and has a certain reputation, but oyu only need to look at what people're reading to see the interest's there.

>>22123343
>And women are very gifted with writing psychological conflict and the nuances of human behaviour.
No they’re not.

>>22123594
>Romeo and Juliet is a political drama, Rousseau's Julie is sociological
Pretty good illustration of the difference between the male and female psyche.
Men are always reaching for the universal (well the ones who aren’t dumb anyway). A man with artistic ambition can’t write a romance that is JUST about those two people and nothing else, he will always want to make it a symbol for something greater, love as such, humanity as such, etc.
Women on the other hand find fulfillment in a narrative that really is just about those two particular individuals and nothing else. The particular, contingent events of their lives serve as their own justification.

>>22124912
Women write stuff like this. I fucking love it, but Shakespeare it is not.

>>22122072
I've had lots of success with light novels written by guys.
At least, as far as I know I have. It feels like almost all light novels are written under pseudonym nowadays.
I have a secret suspicion that about half of all light novels written in the last ten years were made by cryptogaijin that have learned Japanese and write and publish in that language.

>>22124725
many such cases

>>22122540
Imagine believing that women know what they want. The moment you start doing that you're no longer a man and your transition begins.

>>22125054
That picture is correct though, tell your gf she's beautiful and make it seem like you're not doing it perfunctorily and she will stay with you forever. Women desperately need to be loved and admired.

>>22121991
Only men can write romances. Women can only write their sexual fantasies.

>>22125064
I agree but women always try to pacify and domesticate men and the end product of that is not pretty

>>22122540
this is a tranny
>>22123343
this is cope
What you said is not what women want, its what women say they want
Bottomline, if you want women to swoon over you, disregard everything your mother told you about how to treat a lady.

>>22121991
>laughs in Bataille
>laughs in Genet
pauvres anglophones mdr

>>22125064
I mean, if a woman made me feel like I was loved unconditionally I don't think I'd leave her either.

>>22124912
Yes they are lol. The key to it is that they constantly live in their heads and even more so in their feelings. Men don't take feelings too seriously and try to get shit done, women focus more on how things make them feel, and this makes the most sensitive and perceptive women extremely capable writers on the topics of emotion, feeling, psychological conflict and behaviour.
>>22124914
>Women on the other hand find fulfillment in a narrative that really is just about those two particular individuals and nothing else. The particular, contingent events of their lives serve as their own justification.
If you can't find the universal within the particular you're kinda ngmi desu. I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but if you've actually read some female-written romances, the particular story does tell you a lot about the universals of love, at least from the female perspective. If you pay attention, you see it.
>>22125126
This is how it looks to you from a some sort of redpiller perspective. From their perspective, they're just trying to know that you're there for them. "Shit testing" is really more like wanting to know that your man won't hate you even if you're the dumbest, saddest, most malicious and unpleasant creature on earth. And women do find a lot of consolation and comfort in knowing that their men will love them no matter what, no matter how ugly it gets, or how ugly they get. And they do this unconsciously because their emotions influence their minds and behaviours more closely. I think the nagging, brutalising and emasculating traits of women actually stem from a quite different source, specifically neurosis, fear, anxiety, lack of emotional control, discomfort, foreboding - also lack of emotional stimulation.
>>22125665
>Bottomline, if you want women to swoon over you, disregard everything your mother told you about how to treat a lady.
Sure, maybe. My mother just wanted a SonBot to do chores and look innocent, so this is certainly true in my case. Probably not in all cases.
On the other stuff, you're wrong. I am looking at women's fantasies, aimed at women - I am not listening to what they tell society. This is how I know that they do want emotional strife. They do want it. But they don't at all want it like the redpillers want to give it - that is deeply traumatic, scarring and unpleasant for them. They want suffering only as a necessary part of a ping-pong dynamic, where you argue and then reconcile immediately after, continuously, forever. This builds trust and love that a woman cannot easily obtain from a normal and peaceful relationship without strife. She wants to know that you'll love her even if the sky is falling - being loved in peace is not at all enough for her, and if she feels dissatisfied, she will disrupt this peace just to confirm that you *do* love her even in strife, after all.

>>22121991
People write what they know and no man has felt love in over 30 years.

>>22126286
>This builds trust and love that a woman cannot easily obtain from a normal and peaceful relationship without strife. She wants to know that you'll love her even if the sky is falling - being loved in peace is not at all enough for her, and if she feels dissatisfied, she will disrupt this peace just to confirm that you *do* love her even in strife, after all.

I agree with you.
Thing is, for a man, strife with your girl is not conducive to anything worthwhile.
Therfore, she should be very aware that if her BPD ass acts up, you will dump her on the spot.
Then she will keep herself in check, and you can have a peaceful relationship.
I swear, women always use this cope. "durrr it's not shit testing we just want to make sure you don't leave us".
Because they somehow think normal men don't feel annoyed at dumb shit that they say on a daily basis, we just don't react because it's not worth ruining peace and quiet over trivial bullshit.
>but what if the sky is falling
Then you can take my word for it, you don't have to make the sky fall on me every other day to try that out
t. person who had to deal with relationship with diagnosed BPD woman
Total Cluster B Death

>>22126318
>Thing is, for a man, strife with your girl is not conducive to anything worthwhile.
Well, I agree with this too. I am an extremely peaceful creature. I do not like feuds. At all. If I have to feud, I do it with outsiders and I dig my heels in and fight until the very end. Dealing with women's way of doing things is a bit hard for me. I try to view it as a surgeon would. It helps a bit.
>Therfore, she should be very aware that if her BPD ass acts up, you will dump her on the spot.
I can't do this either, and I don't want to. Do you really want to spend your life with another person in a state of tension like this? Never being able to relax, and knowing that she will never be able to relax either? I can't. I don't want that.
I am sorry you had to deal with a BPDemon. But I don't think you've emerged from that experience with a balanced perspective. At least to me, this redpill-esque "hold frame, dump her immediately if she does xyz" seems too stressful. It's not pleasant, it doesn't make me feel connected to others. There's no point in a relationship if it has to be like that.

>>22126473
I apologise if i came off as a manosphere mgtow tier cunt, that wasn't my intention.
I've gotten over that relationship and am now happily hitched to someone else, after one more relationship that ended amicably and a few flings, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't affect me.
Nevertheless, that relationship taught me when to put my foot down. Of course, I wouldn't dump someone for a bad episode, but it taught me to recognize when it's actually just an episode of her going through something and when it's just... well, her, and I should cut my losses

The main issue is that these types are very good at camouflaging themselves, and you will most likely never know what hit you until after you're left crying in an unkempt hovel of an apartment not knowing what you did wrong

>>22121991
I cannot be authentic and write an experience i have not felt

>>22126498
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I think the tricky part is, at least from my perspective, it's kind of a quantity perspective. What's the boundary between an "episode" and someone's true nature? It's how often they act up. And that's down to their inner state, their emotions, how much of this insecurity and darkness they're dealing with. It can be difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. And even then, cluster B people are pretty sad. We shouldn't give them a license to ruin people's lives, obviously. But essentially they ruin other people's lives because their own lives are already just ruins. It's the type of person crippled by fear and neurosis. And occasionally you see this with really unpleasant women, if you can get them comfortable, you see just how different things could be. And it makes you sad. Or at least, it makes me sad. Maybe I've gotten a bit sidetracked lol, how did I end up here.

>>22126514
It did make me sad. I lost more money, time, and emotional labour than I've lost even in my line of work
That being said, it was a formative experience. I don't regret it, but I wouldn't wish it on anyone else

>>22126286
>>22126473
part 2 of chainsaw man legitimately could be a romance written by a woman. absolute horseshit with a milquetoast protagonist

>>22126540
Glad you're doing better now! Not having regret is proof enough that you've made the best of the experience. Good luck and all the best, anon!
>>22126543
Yeah well, idk what Fujimoto is doing, but to be honest I always thought he was a hack. Asa is okay imo but he just can't do plot for shit these days.

>>22126554
Thanks!
In the end, life is what we make of it

>>22126286
>>22126473
All you've convinced me is to turn celibate

>>22126700
I mean. I guess I can't judge you.

>>22123343
>>22124108
>>22124517
When people talk about "woman" like this I take that to mean a very indivisible nature/spirit of "woman", same thing goes for when I hear "man", though the two are very different.

Has either anon read Wuthering Heights? I think Emily Bronte came as close as anyone I've ever read to representing the essential nature of "man" in Heathcliff and of "woman" in Catherine. Is Wuthering Heights a romance though? I don't think it is at all...What does this say about me? Probably that I'm more a man than woman...

>>22121991
Depends how we think of romance, and also how we think of "men". For the most part, men DO write "romantic" novels in the sense that they are crazy, adventurous tales that are very unlikely to occur in real life...or they write romantic ("of, characterized by, or suggestive of an idealized view of reality") novels in the sense of how far you can take concepts and play with them...ie Ulysses.

For the most part, most women think of romance or romantic as something that happens between le Chad and femzoid x...

>>22126931
>>22127005
Same poster here...It just occurred to me that Emily was fucking with the normies bigtime when she wrote WH because it's a romantic novel in the sense of how men will often like to think of romance, but in the typical narrative set-up of what women want their romantic novel to be...hehe..so based

>>22123343
Any recommendations?

>>22126931
>When people talk about "woman" like this I take that to mean a very indivisible nature/spirit of "woman", same thing goes for when I hear "man", though the two are very different.
In this regard, I am absolutely a Platonist. There is Man and Woman, and then there are men and women. Some come closer to the ideal than others. Not that that's a good or a bad thing.
Unfortunately, I have not read Bronte so I cannot comment on this. One of my friends has, but he is asleep right now, so I can't consult him either.
>>22127029
My taste is too plebeian. I'd be laughed out of this board if I mentioned the stories that inspired these reflections. Apologies, anon.

>We detest the cult of women! The romantic moonlit facade which bathes the walls of the whorehouse!
-F.T. Marinetti, who fucked more women and was more adored by women than any of the incest ITT

>>22127172
what are your influences because you pretty much communicated things about me that I couldn't even if I really tried

>>22127322
Which poster are you, first one, second one, someone else entirely? I am not sure in regard to what you say this, so it is a bit hard to answer. I am assuming you're asking me about my philosophical influences. If that's what you are interested in, you can look into Plato, the Neoplatonists (/lit/ had a comfy Plotinus marathon not too long ago). I've read tons of Evola, too. He actually says some relevant things in his book "Eros and the Mysteries of Love" but when I first tried to read it I was brutally filtered so I don't recommend it as a first pick. You'll need some background in symbolism and the idea of universals if you really want to enjoy that book. This should about sum it up. One thing I will note is that the literature I just mentioned will not have the same effect on everyone. Part of it is about reading the right thing at the right moment. Another part of it is just down to character. The Platonists and Evola are all about transcendence. Transcendence is very, very important to me but my personal character is also very much involved with what is immanent, human, psychological, embodied. For me, those writings complete my natural character, but others may need or want something extra to balance their own personhood better.

>>22122000
fags are not men

>>22122540
My man wtf. Everybody wants this shit.
Everybody wants to be loved and appreciated even with your failuers and falls.
And women really want/need to feel safe bcz of their nature, men will die, perish and conquer to dismiss a feeling buried inside.

Don't most men write romance in Visual Novels?

>>22121991
>male tries to write romance
>turns it into a harem
m*les are intrinsically disgusting hedonists

>>22124767
romance that ends in cuckolding and suicide?

>>22121991
>>22121991
>>22121991
did you not read Lolita?

>>22127801
Visual novels are the greatest form of literature today. The best of them follow the logic of 'the honey of the oak brings the laurel with its knowledge of the future'

>>22121991
Because we have not experienced romance. its an alien concept to us

>>22121991
What do you consider "romance novels"? Because most of the classics actually either center on a romance or it is integral to the story. Everything from War and Peace to A Room with a View to Steppenwolf to David Copperfield to The Phantom of the Opera to A Farewell to Arms and on and on. Romance is a rich and abundant font from which to draw substance for a good story. If you're referring to Harlequin romance novels, it's most likely because that genre does not appeal to men; it's constructed to appeal to women. Men tend to prefer stories with deeper meaning, and if they want something sexually titillating they choose a more visual medium. Therefore, since men aren't interested in reading it, they also tend not to write it.

>>22130749
I hate women so much I hate them I hate them.
I wish our lives didn't have to revolve around them this much.

>>22130853
Each day is an opportunity to learn, anon. While certain circumstances can be frustrating, don't let it get you down king. You'll be stronger every day if you just view each challenge as an opportunity to better yourself. Stay strong buddy.

>>22121991
Men tend to write their romance as subplots in whatever fantasy, sf etc novel they're writing and I think it's better this way. Pure romance novels tend to rely heavily on drama and love triangles, infidelity, and other infuriating BS to keep the attention of the readers.

>>22122540
translation: she wants her imagination and emotions to "go wild".