/lit/ - Literature

It's hypocritical to argue against having children and still have pets and treat them as children

>child-free community

>books
nah nigga its literally written in your genes, if you don't have the desire to have children it means your genes are defective

>>22098662
no it isn't

>>22098667
kek

>>22098654
you do not want kids, you failed the most basic trait of a living organism

There's legitimate reasons for individuals not to have children.

If you're not living in the 15th century (or present-day Africa) and don't need kids to do your farm-work, then having kids is either a personal decision or something that will/won't happen naturally. No book is going to seriously change your mind on the matter. It'll just be an obtuse way of rationalizing what you already want.

>>22098654
>The arguments of the child-free community sound irrefutable
this just means you are a miserable sadsack loser.
people who are miserable sadsack losers project their experience onto the entire condition of living and assume life itself must be an inherently miserable endeavor.
people who enjoy life realize that even though it entails pain and suffering, it also entails happiness and pleasure, and that it is more morally correct to allow a person to exist and then choose for themselves whether to stop existing, as opposed to never giving that person the chance to exist at all.

>>22098654
/r/regretfulparents
imagine having kids when other people already fell for that meme and posted their L online for anyone to read and take warning from

>>22098972
>counterargument is a subreddit
ffs anon, that website is just as mentally ill as this one

>>22098654
kids no. suicide yes.
I give zero fucks about humanity and it's future

>>22098972
https://www.reddit.com/r/regretfulparents/comments/103x3ur/i_ran_away_christmas_morning/

https://www.reddit.com/r/regretfulparents/comments/10950w5/i_ran_away_christmas_morning_update/

either their children are psychopaths trying to kill them or theyre evil women who are sad they cant whore around anymore, those are the 2 main groups of people in that horrific subreddit.
love from kazakhstan.

>>22099361
liberals don't deserve to reproduce

>>22099363
its probably best that woman did leave her kids, she would have ruined their lives

>>22098654
>>22098940
This is essentially the essence of the rebuttal. Every anti-natalist proposition is based upon the core axiom that it is worse to live than to not have lived. To refute the whole thing, its easiest to demonstrate that SOME people enjoy their lives; they then can no longer make their sexiest claims (about how having children is evil and such). Just find a book about enjoying life.

>>22098654
From the most complex mammal to the simplest virus, the biological mechanism has no purpose beyond its own propagation. Who are you to deny this?

>>22099361
>My youngest child did something really stupid and I took that personally.
Wow, what a way to react to what should have just become a really funny story to tell at future Christmas celebrations

>>22099439
Generation is proceeded by time and time is proceeded by Earth and Earth is proceeded by eternity. Regeneration is both embodied, because it pertains to passing things, and it is immortal, because it I'd bound by the eternal. Therefore regeneration is neither good nor evil.

>>22099410

I don't agree that it really is as shrimple as all that, and that life can be defended by pointing to the lives of people who are known to have enjoyed happy lives (up until the moment of death, of course, which no one escapes). It is very easy to dismiss anti-natalism as a cope, but there's something deeper in the idea itself here which you're rejecting: the unborn don't have to put up with all this fuss at all, and so, never having come into existnce, can be argued to be "happier" than those who were put through the wringer of existence.

It should also be pointed out that the clinging to life is itself an arbitrary cope. As to the OP's prompt, we're stupid animals and nature runs its course no matter what we do.

>>22099467
Why should I care for the unborn?

>>22099467
That again assumes that existence is a "wringer" you're put through and not a positive experience. I'd argue it's better to live and suffer than to never live at all.
Would you rather sit through 60 years of nails on a chalkboard to hear an hour of Mozart, or spend your entire life deaf?
I know I'd choose the former.

Mo kids mo money from da govment.

>>22099481
Based and cashpilled

>>22098654
>The arguments of the child-free community sound irrefutable to me.
Literally just have sex. Antinatalism is refuted by Darwin

Doesn't anyone know the quote by ancient greece philosopher guy which says something like "It is because of death that I cannot consider life a bad."

This is my thinking, I love death.

>>22098654
Thus Spoke Zarathustra is relevant enough, in its discussion of living for the greatness of future generations.

>>22098654
Please check pic related. Imo Having no children has its own upsides and downsides. No commitment means more free time to do what you want. Evolutionarily, the desire to have no children is normal albeit rarer since in earlier societies the childless family member takes care of their nieces and nephews.

>>22098662
Pets are cheaper, easier, don't live as long, and there's no stigma in getting rid of them when you've had enough.

Pet owners are the worst, but it's no hypocritical.

>>22099697
Summary for anyone curious

>>22098670
Wrong. Pets are worse, dogs in particular. It is just as unethical to own them because they're better off not existing. Many years ago, I used to have an ex, that would leave her dane, border collie, pit bull mutt over my apartment. It would bark and cry all day with her being at work, even if I was home. It interacted with her for 2 hours and the majority of its time was spent suffering. It would have been better to not exist. That dog was an inconvience worse than kids. Its existence, worse than theirs as well.

>>22098973
Hard disagree. Where re**it is an oversocialized hellhole of conformity and censorship, 4chan is MERELY schizophrenic fun posting. 4chan users are much more mentally healthy than any social media user simply because you don't carry the weight of your post history with you all the time. Nobody gets notifications from 4chan delivered to their phone reminding them that other people are getting GETS and making funny posts and there's no negative social consequence for taking a break from 4chan for a while.

Genesis 1:28
Genesis 1:31

>>22098654
The second part of Breast and Eggs by Mieko Kawakami

>>22098654
The easiest argument to make and one childfree niggas and antinatalists ignore, is that if the fertility rate drops low enough, social programs will eventually be heavily burdened because there won't be enough young people to pay taxes, or assist in taking care of the feeble and elderly, or work in essential job sectors like the military, medical care, education, etc. Anyone who has zero intention of having children is likely going to just be a tax burden on a state that cannot afford to take care of them better than their children and grandchildren would've. The childfree/antinatalist response is: "Just import foreigners and let them and/or their children do it." This response, of course, reveals that they don't actually have a problem with people having children. They have a problem with "them" having to take up the responsibility of fulfilling their biological prerogative for a litany of selfish reasons: they're women who want to keep their figure and don't want to deal with the burden of pregnancy, they're men who want to stay bachelors and don't want real responsibility, they're incapable of committing to a single relationship and hate the idea that a child might force their hand in staying in one, they hate the idea that they will no longer be the most important thing in their little universe and will have to put another person's needs first for once, etc.
The truth is that all childfree/antinatalist rhetoric comes from a place of responsibility-dodging self-interest masked as altruistic concerns about "overpopulation" or midwit philosophy about how "living is suffering." This is in spite of population levels being nowhere near unsustainable and actually many 1st-world nations being "underpopulated", hence their constant need of immigrants/migrants. And also, in spite of our current era having the least amount of universal suffering of any in humanity's history. The CFer and ANist will ignore these realities about the world, because it was never about the world. It was about them being judged for not having kids. Rather than just shrug it off and live their lives, they created some new retarded pseudo-religion about how having kids and not allowing our species to go extinct is actually bad just to cope.

It's pretty funny, actually.

>>22098654
Hi. This is your 60th thread now. You should get help.
To all other anons, anti-natalist arguments assign ethics to behavior exhibited by every living oraganism on this planet. Everything from a lowly virus to man strives to consume resources, expand territory and reproduce. There is no reason or meaning, at least not one that anyone knows about. Metaphysical and religious arguments are pure speculation. After the anti-natalist has assigned morals to this act, this anti-natalist asks you to counter them. If you argue with them, you've already fallen into the trap of circular arguments and endless deflection.
OP here has posted this thread too many times. Now OP disguises his threads with allusions to anti-natalism. We've been down this road too many times before. Don't waste your time engaging with OP.

>>22098683
Such as?

>>22098654
>or at least address the arguments against having children?
The fuck are you on about? You have a functional penis? Why do you need an argument? What is wrong with people?

>>22099709
>dane, border collie, pit bull mutt
Just because some dumbass gets a huge, high energy dog that they don't have the time or space to care for properly or train doesn't mean that all dogs exist in constant suffering

>>22098654
Antinatalists are walking dead-ends.

The future belongs to those who show up. So go ahead, enjoy your meaningless existence. Not my problem.

>>22099474
>Would you rather sit through 60 years of nails on a chalkboard to hear an hour of Mozart, or spend your entire life deaf?
>>>>>I know I'd choose the former.

Nah, you're full of shit.
You cannot imagine what 60 years of nothing but nails on a chalkboard is like. It would be like chronic pain, it would be like being stuck inside an iron lung, or tinnitus or some other overblown suffering shit. You really think an hour of Mozart will makeup for that? You're delusional, clearly talking from the point of view of someone who hasn't suffered nothing even close to 60 fucking years of nails on a chalkboard.

>>22099948
>Anyone who has zero intention of having children is likely going to just be a tax burden on a state that cannot afford to take care of them better than their children and grandchildren would've.
Not my (or my kids) problem, I'm gonna kill myself.

>The childfree/antinatalist response is: "Just import foreigners and let them and/or their children do it."
No, they should stop having kids. Hell, I'm wondering why no one has fucking poisoned the water sources of every 3rd world shithole to make them sterile.

>>22098654
It's only immoral to have kids if you are ugly, poor and haven't read the Greeks

>>22100246
Every antinatalist is the product of two natalists.

>>22099948
There will be a last generation. All you're doing is deciding now or later.

>>22098678
So too does a dung beetle with no instinct to roll shit.

>>22098654
I would plaster her face with so much fucking cum

>>22100710
Exactly. Who is going to roll them shits? If they went extinct, it will shit up the ecosystem because they are responsible for a lot of the shit degradation.

>>22099361
kek the first thing she does after the divorce is to go to Spain and fuck Pedro Polladura. Women are unreal.

>>22099410
>>22099467
Here’s the thing: living is neither inherently good or bad, it is just a set of experiences that affect us either positively or negatively. Non-living is similarly not good or bad, simply the lack of experiences (or at least we can presume that since the reality of non-living is unknowable to the living).
Non-living people essentially don’t exist, they can’t be judged as better or worse off than the living since they’re purely hypothetical. Bringing children into the world isn’t dragging them out of a state of blissful ignorance, it is literally creating them from nothingness. You can’t say they would be more or less happy if they never lived since without life they simply would not have existed. Life is what it is, whatever comes before or after is eternal and so I don’t think it’s at all immoral to initiate new beings into it for so brief a time before they return to whatever non-living is, similarly though I don’t think it is immoral not to want children, it’s simply a personal choice. The issue comes when people make having children or not their entire personality and something to rage over and debate.

>>22098654
Jenna Ortega died in squalid conditions on an inflatable mattress in a soiled nappy.

>>22100311
>Hell, I'm wondering why no one has fucking poisoned the water sources of every 3rd world shithole to make them sterile.
Uhhhh, I've got news for you anon

>>22099361

Whether anyone says it or not (the siblings definitely will) the youngest one is going to know that it's his fault for ruining his family forever.

Look up Simone and Malcolm Collins, they wrote several books.

>>22100710
yes that's the point
somehow a bug rolling around in shit is ahead of childfree people

>>22098654
please for the love of god let this thread not have a bunch of misplaced bible/quran verses

>>22098654
One of the worst outcomes for utilitarianism would be all utilitarians going extinct by refusing to breed thus leaving only non-utilitarians in the world to make life worse for every conscious creature by being wholly unconcerned with utility.

>>22098654

>>22098654
anti-natalists btfo

>>22099474
braindead larper
you're a fat disgusting loser stop pretending you'd do anything 1/1000 as hard as that

>>22099702
This is gold

>>22099948
Sauce?

>>22098972
Every mother on that sub either had severe mental illness or were angry their kid held them back from whoring around

>>22098654
Book called "antinatalism"

>>22099470
Why should yuo care for anything? Kill yourself.

>>22103835
Seethe

For a time, our currently living generations will trend toward childlessness to correct our own overpopulation and to accommodate new revolutions in automation. It's just how it do.

>>22103835
I care about plenty of things, I just don't care much for that which does not exist

>>22098654
Having children is just creating future victims for the neolib oligarchic system.

>>22104138
Im definitely a natalist, but the strongest argument ive ever seen for antinatalism is knowing the future is only going to be ruled by further and further leftards.