/lit/ - Literature

He was French: il fallait coomer.

Michel Valsan once introduced a promising new pupil to Abdalwâhid Yahiâ (René Guénon), and just as they were sitting down for ahwa the pupil said "So long!", Monsieur Guénon replied "Leaving so soon? You have just arrived" and the pupil replied "I was talking about your face", Monsieur Guénon laughed and blessed the pupil three times and then wrote 640 paranoid letters about his betrayal and his belief that the pupil was casting hexes on him from Morocco

>>22098063
There are two major trends in Dharmic traditions like Hinduism and Buddhism: towards the strictly ascetic and renunciate, as with vows of celibacy (brahmacharya), or towards the “married householder” life or living as the “enlightened layman”. The latter is not just some New Age innovation (although western readings of Tantra where they’re held to be solely obsessed with drugs and sex often are), great spiritual leaders or avatars being married householders goes back to the tales of Rama and his wife Sita, or Shiva and Parvati, thousands of years ago. Much like, say, Old Testament prophets being married and having children.

>>22098063
Celibacy leads to degeneracy. Everyone knows this already. Millennia worth of experience and we find it a human trait.

>>22098063
>If to attain liberation or Moksha one must become a sannyasin and thus celibate
wrong

>>22098063
Guenon did not claim to be a Hindu sannyasin, therefore it is unreasonable to expect that he conduct himself like one.

Also, Vedanta teaches that non-sannyasins who follow a legitimate spiritual path can still enter into the Brahmaloka at death, where you have a very long time to reach moksha while there. One can make progress towards moksha even while having a wife and being sexually active.

The fact that people here bothered to learn about Hinduism is hilarious. How dumb, deluded, and sad do you have to be to seek meaning in such a desperate way?

>>22098307
another brainlet filtered by the primordial wisdom of the Vedas

>>22098063
>to attain liberation or Moksha one must become a sannyasin
no

>>22098084
10/10

>>22098063
that's the problem with perennialist, the artificial mix of traditions they practice let them choose a little from collumn A and a little of collumn B, never really developing a true practice in any of them, a sort of mystical jack of all trades
he was a vedanttin metaphysically but a sufi householder when his penis was having a problem with self control

>>22098063
He was too Chad to be celibate

>>22098063
Because he wasn't Hindu?
>>22099282
Not really, Traditionalism emphasises going fully into a tradition. What you said is more like the Huxley style perennialism.

Now how a philosophy that emphasizes religious orthodoxy copes with the religious orthodoxy saying that other religions or concepts are incompatible is another question...

>>22099952
>Now how a philosophy that emphasizes religious orthodoxy copes with the religious orthodoxy saying that other religions or concepts are incompatible is another question.

Honestly I’d consider myself a follower of Guénon but I struggle with this contradiction

>>22099952
There is no religion greater than the truth. Dogmatic contradictions and ideological incompatibilities crumble in pieces once you reach Gnosis and all resolves into the One.

>>22100065
>Gnosis
Delusion. Take yr meds. Religion is not about special knowledge. It's about being a better person. Claims to special knowledge and subsequent elitism are one of the main cancers killing religion.

>>22100091
Becoming a better person and seeking intuitive understanding of the divine are not mutually opposed goals. They are in fact deeply related spiritual quests. You have no idea of what you're talking about

>>22100000
Not all religions say that, some religions express a level of perennialism within themselves, at the end of the day if they all go towards the same location then this occurs irrespective of any contingent human dogmas that arose through confluences of various circumstances.

>>22098084
>why the long face?

>>22100113
>meanwhile every trad author is a wannabe cult guru who uses their gnostic understanding of enlightenment as excuse for bad behavior
You shall know the tree by its fruits

>>22100151
>>meanwhile every trad author is a wannabe cult guru who uses their gnostic understanding of enlightenment as excuse for bad behavior
Lies

Guenon never did that
neither Coomaraswamy did that
Borella never did that
Titus never did that
Evola never did that

Only Schuon arguably and possibly maybe Nasr did

Guenon lived a life that was impeccable from a moral perspective.

>>22100151
Surely enough some of them are bound to be elitist and act condescendingly. It's really not the norm however, true Gnosis is supposed to imbue you with compassion and deep understanding of human nature. All primordial traditions from taoism to sufism agree on this
>>22100175
I'm curious about what you know of Schuon and Nasr regarding this? I'm not too familiar with their lives

>>22100208
Schuon accumulated a group of followers that turned into some sort of cult where they worshipped Schuon like an avatar or prophet, he reportedly had sex with multiple followers, according to allegations. There is no documentation for Nasr as per Schuon, just rumors online, I have seen people say online say that he hooked with at least one female member of the Sufi group he led, which he eventually stepped down from. Tbh it could have been perfectly innocuous but Im just aware its a possibility that he leveraged his position for pussy, but at the same time women are notorious for simping for and throwing themselves at authority figures/leaders especially spiritually gurus, so I wouldnt be surprised if it turned out he was blameless.

>>22100323
>Schuon
he wrote about all this, read his articles about 'divine nudity' and look at his paints of the Virgin, he also claimed to have contact with her, complete schizo
and so was his associates, nasr, Lings, etc, its very clear that they knew about all this shit, but stayed with schuon. They could just have gone away like Rama coomaraswamy or Wolfgang smith
He was not even an authentic shaykh, true followers of shaykh AL-Alawi never recognized any 'transmission' whatsoever

>>22100444
Did know Coomaraswamy’s son became a sedevacinist?

>>22098111
>There are two major trends in Dharmic traditions like Hinduism and Buddhism: towards the strictly ascetic and renunciate, as with vows of celibacy (brahmacharya), or towards the “married householder” life or living as the “enlightened layman”.

This sounds interesting, could you tell me more or point me towards something to read on this?

>>22098307
This.

>>22101418
>>22098307
>How dumb, deluded, and sad do you have to be to seek meaning in such a de-


"Even the loftiest philosophy of the Europeans, the idealism of reason, as it is set forth by Greek philosophers, appears in comparison with the abundant light and vigor of Oriental idealism, like a feeble Promethean spark in the full flood of heavenly glory of the noonday sun—faltering and feeble, and ever ready to be extinguished."
- Friedrich von Schlegel (1772 – 1829)

"When we read with attention the poetical and philosophical monuments of the East, above all, those of India, which are beginning to spread in Europe, we discover there many a truth, and truths so profound, and which make such a contrast with the meanness of the results at which the European genius has sometimes stopped, that we are constrained to bend the knee before the philosophy of the East, and to see in this cradle of the human race the native land of the highest philosophy."
- Victor Cousin (1792 – 1867)

"It is impossible to read the Vedanta, or the many fine compositions in illustration of it, without believing that Pythagoras and Plato derived their sublime theories from the same fountain with the sages of India."
- Sir William Jones ( 1746 – 1794)

"I spend my happiest hours in reading Vedantic books. They are to me like the light of the morning, like the pure air of the mountains - so simple, so true, if once understood."
- Max Muller (1823 – 1900)

"In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous and cosmogonal philosophy of the Bhagavat Geeta, since whose composition years of the gods have elapsed, and in comparison with which our modern world and its literature seem puny and trivial…"
- Henry David Thoreau (1817 – 1862)

(The Bhagavad Gita is) "The most beautiful, perhaps the only true philosophical song existing in any known tongue ....perhaps the deepest and loftiest thing the world has to show."
- Wilhelm von Humboldt (1767 – 1835)

"I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad-gita. It was the first of books; it was as if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence which in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same questions which exercise us."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 – 1882)

"In the whole world there is no study so beneficial and so elevating as that of the Upanishads. It has been the solace of my life -- it will be the solace of my death. "
- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788 – 1860)

>>22098063
Why the long face?

>>22100851
The general name applied to the less strictly ascetic branch of these traditions is simply “Tantra.” As in, Tantric Hinduism, and Tantric Buddhism.

Good primer on Tantric Hinduism: Sir John Woodroffe’s “The World as Power.”
Particularly foundational texts: the Shaiva Agamas (the Agamas of Shiva).

Good primer on Tantric Vajrayana Buddhism (its writer’s personal flaws aside): various of the collected works of Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche.
Garma C.C. Chang’s translation of “The Hundred Thousand Songs of Milarepa”.
Edwin Bernbaum’s “The Way to Shambhala”.

Bernbaum (p. 107): “Lamas also compare the three kinds of Buddhism [Hinayana, Mahayana, and Vajrayana] to three ways of dealing with poison — in this case, the poisons of hatred, lust, and delusion. Believing that poison can only produce sickness and death, the follower of the Hinayana shuns it: He tries to cut off his desires and to avoid anything that might stimulate them, such as women or wealth. The person on the Mahayana path, however, realizes that poison used the right way can act as bitter medicine: He therefore uses passions in small doses to cure his mind of its illusions. But the Vajrayana yogi knows that poison only appears to be poison: It is, in fact, the nectar of immortality, and knowing this, he drinks it and speedily attains enlightenment.”

>>22101450
very based indeed. Western philosophy will rest in the far future as a mere footnote to the metaphysical grandiosity erected over the millenia within the asian cultures

>>22101541
Plato and Neoplatonics?????

>>22101450
>those names
Holy cringe the worst LARPer lineup

>>22100611
yeah, he got out from one cult to join another one

>>22101591
they'll be forgotten just like many hindu darshanas (samkhya, mimamsa, nyayavaisheshika.) while Vedanta thrives

>>22101671
t. larper

Nyaya and Mimamsa are not forgotten but are still widely studied and taught by traditional pandits in India.

>>22098063
PBUH

>>22101745
no,
vaisheshika got integrated into navya nyaya in the eleventh century, so it was not considered an independent darshana
and both prachina nyaya and navya-nyaya were extinguished in the eighteenth century
samkhya disappeared in the XV century
its all theoretical, bookish knowledge

yoga has many branches, but the traditional yoga patañjali is almost extinguished
mimamsa is almost done too, due to internal conflicts and the attacks from other darshanas; also, being a typical elitist/aristocratic tradition, its very hard to survive in the modern world

so, even though those darshanas are well respected and discussed, they've all been fractured,


Vedanta(advaita, obviously), on the other hand, is very much alive

>>22102293
>and both prachina nyaya and navya-nyaya were extinguished in the eighteenth century
Not really, there are no longer major groups of Nyaya intellectuals who publish Sanskrit texts advancing ideas in Nyaya and engaging with and critiquing other schools but it continues to be widely studied and taught including by Pandits who spend years studying it. Mīmāṃsā, Nyāya and Vyākaraṇa (grammer) are held to be more or less the Sanskrit equivalent of the trivium that it's considered important for a traditionally educated person to have an understanding of before even being qualified to properly study topics like Vedanta, this was true in medieval India, various Sanskrit texts explicitly say this and it is still the case in traditional centers of Sanskrit and Hindu learning.

I can tell that you are the SSSfag. It's no surprise that you would want to downplay or ignore the above fact given that it was in part due to his lack of training in the Sanskrit trivium that SSS makes so many dumb mistakes and fallacies in his writings on Advaita, since he is just writing from a modernized and westernized perspective informed by his western-style academic training while not being trained in traditional Indian hermeneutics, logic or grammar.

>There are two main reasons which can be hypothesized for SSS’s misunderstanding of advaita. The first is that he and KI (Iyer) did not receive any rigorous training in advaita, unlike the advaitic sampradayavits. Both do not seem to have undergone the required formal training in the nyaya or the purva mımamsa. Followers of SSS frequently point out that they was taught by Sri Virupaksa Sastri, a traditional advaitic scholar of great repute. However, it seems clear from his biography that SSS and KI mainly performed joint self-study, and consulted with Sri Virupaksa Sastri in periodic intervals [28]. It must have been very exciting to both SSS and KI, when it seemed that they had discovered something 1200 years of advaitins had missed regarding avidya, etc. The second reason is that the basic training of both KI and SSS was a Western education. This, combined with their lack of a rigorous training in the traditional subjects, especially in the nyaya and the purva mımamsa, seems to have lead them astray. Circular reasoning in many topics such as avidya and deep-sleep, and lack of understanding of the importance of the sruti pramana, are the most obvious results. This shows the advantage of a rigorous and formal training, versus self-study.
https://who.rocq.inria.fr/Ramakrishna.Upadrasta/Advaita/PHIL_PAPERS/Avidya/Ramakrishnan_Balasubramanian_shank_new_approach.pdf


>being a typical elitist/aristocratic tradition
It's hardly more elitist than traditional Vedanta, every single founder or major commentator of the different Vedanta schools say that Shudras are only supposed to study Smritis and not the Sruti

>>22101470
no u

>>22102476
That grammar should be considered an important prerequisite is self-evident and doesn't need to be explained. With regard to Nyaya and Mimamsa, the other schools like Vedanta still accept large portions of their thought as legitimate and assimilate it into their own school. Most Mimamsa hermeneutical rules and techniques are accepted and reused by the Vedanta schools including Advaita and you have to understand these and have read Mimamsa texts to fully comprehend the rationale and background that guide Vedantic hermeneutics. Similarly, studying Nyaya is considered important in part because of how Nyaya identifies and categorizes various types of logical fallacies or errors in reasoning, studying Nyaya helps train one in thinking critically/rationally even if you don't accept Nyaya metaphysics or teachings about the Nyaya Atman etc. Without these 3 one is liable to misunderstand Sanskrit and to make mistakes in one's logical reasoning and in one's textual hermeneutics.

>>22102519
>>22102476
unrelated but I heard a lot of the Traditional Indians hate Gandhi or something

Is that true?

I wonder if Guénon wrote anything on Gandhi

All the trads, including Guénon, were blown out by Aleister Crowley the original sex degenerate addict coomer, The Great Beast 666.

Even Guénon could not handle this anglo.

He cucked Amanda Coomaraswamy:
>Coomaraswamy asked Crowley to help promote his wife Alice Ethel's performances in 1916. Crowley wrote reviews of her in Vanity Fair and offered letters of introduction for her. She and Crowley quickly became lovers and magical partners, engaging in sexual magic by April of 1916. Alice became pregnant.
>Crowley says that Coomaraswamy was quite aware of their affair and had even encouraged it, wanting Crowley to take on her living expenses while in New York. Crowley, in exchange, introduced Ananda to Gerda Maria von Kothek, a prostitute and former Crowley lover. Coomaraswamy and von Kothek were soon living together.
>when Alice Ethel's career began to take off, Coomaraswamy wanted her back. Alice Ethel loved Crowley, but, for whatever reason, decided to return to England with Coomaraswamy. She had a miscarriage as a result of sea sickness on the voyage.
Crowley himself described Ananda "The Worm" in his magical diaries and considered him a "Black Brother" (Meaning an adept, achieving certain state in magical initiation corresponding to the Sephira of Chesed, fails to make the plunge to Binah, or the Supernals, and remains in towers of egoism and knowledge of the false sephirah of Daath)

Rene Guénon thought Crowley was a secret advisor to Hitler:
>To come back to Aleister Crowley, what you told me reminds me of the story that turned up in 1931 (I believe at least that was the exact date): while he was in Portugal, he suddenly disappeared. They found his clothes on the border of the sea, something that made them believe he had drowned. But it was only a simulated death, since they were no longer concerned about him and did not try to find out where he had gone. Actually, he went to Berlin to play the role of secret adviser to Hitler who was then at his beginning.
>A little later, Crowley founded the Saturn-Lodge in Germany; have you ever heard of it? There he called himself Master Therion, and his signature was to mega Therion (the Great Beast), something that in Greek gives exactly the numeric value 666.
-Letters from Guénon to Evola (X)

Julius Evola praised Crowley, wrote even an article about him:
>http://www.gornahoor.net/library/EvolaOnCrowley.pdf

He was a degenerate, sex addict, coomer.

Crowley coomed regularly, he was a pro-coomer advocate:
>In his book, Magick, Aleister Crowley referred to masturbation jokingly and dysphemistically as child sacrifice.
>According to Crowley’s diaries, he performed this “sacrifice” about 150 times per year from 1912-1928.

Also see pic related. Aleister Crowley referred Guénon as a "monkey" and Guénon never accepted Crowley's claims to being a 33rd degree Freemason (he was actually conferred the grade by Don Jesus de Medina according to Crowley's memoirs).

>>22099952
>Traditionalism emphasises going fully into a tradition
that's debatable, most traditionalist rest in this weird mix of traditions, and the ones who allegedly get initated into a tradition most of the times mantain their perrnealist bias

>>22103315
I mean, Crowley was definitely the ultimate master of the left-hand path but who was his counterpart for the right-hand path? Maybe Manly Palmer Hall?

>>22103953
Crowley:
>The Left-Hand Path—"The Black Brothers"
> Now, if there is any difference at all between the White and the Black Adept in similar case, it is that the one, working by “love under will” achieves a marriage with the new idea, while the other, merely grabbing, adds a concubine to his harem of slaves.
>The about-to-be-Black Brother constantly restricts himself; he is satisfied with a very limited ideal; he is afraid of losing his individuality—reminds one of the “Nordic” twaddle about “race-pollution.”
>Have you seen the sand-roses of the Sahara? Such is the violence of the Khamsin that it whips grains of sand together, presses them, finally builds them into great blocks, big enough and solid enough to be used for walls in the oasis. And beautiful! Whew! For all that, they are not real rocks. Leave hem in peace, with no possible interference—what happens? (I brought some home, and put them “in safety” as curiosities, and as useful psychometrical tests.) Alas! Time is enough. Go to the drawer which held them; nothing remains but little piles of dust.
-Magick Without Tears

Crowley:
>DE FRATRIBUS NIGRIS
FILIIS INIQUITATIS.

>Of the Black Brothers, o my Son, will I write these Things following: I have told thee already concerning Change, how it is the Law, because every Change is an Act of Love under will. So then He that is Adept Exempt, whether in our Holy Order or another, may not remain in the Pillar of Mercy, because it is not balanced, but is unstable. Therefore is the Choice given unto him, whether he will destroy his Temple, and give up his Life, extending it to Universal Life, or whether he will make a Fortress about that Temple, and abide therein, in the false Sphere of Daath, which is in the Abyss. And to the Adepts of our Holy Order this Choice is terrible; by Cause that they must abandon even Him whose Knowledge and Conversation they have attained. Yet, o my Son, they have much Help of our Order in this Aeon, because the general Formula is Love, so hat their habit itself urges them to the Bed of our Lady BABALON. Know then the Black Brothers by this true Sign of heir Initiation of iniquity, that that they resist Change, restrict and deny Love, fear Death. Percutiantur.
-Liber Aleph

Crowley did not consider himself as being on the "left-hand path"

>>22103173
Purely anecdotally, I used to eat dinner with a bunch of retired Singaporean Navy vet Indian dudes that described Modi and Gandhi as "wogs": Western Oriented Gorillas. They couldn't stand the two of them for selling out traditional India to the West, as they saw it.

>>22103972
Well he was a depraved hedonist so he kinda was wasn't he

>>22104022

There is a huge difference between "Frater Perdurabo" and his religious-philosophy Thelema and the mere mortal, Aleister Crowley. Even Crowley writes:

>So wrote not FRATER PERDURABO, but the Imp Crowley in his Name.
>And yet who knoweth which is Crowley, and which is FRATER PERDURABO?

Then there is the sensationalist, satanist flirting side to Crowley who was in yellow press of the time because of different scandals and was termed the 'wickedest man in the world'

This is from Evola's article.
http://www.gornahoor.net/library/EvolaOnCrowley.pdf

>Crowley was a character whose personality overpowers certain of the figures already considered. If we associate him with Satanism, it is because he himself invites us to do so
>By itself, it would seem to confirm Satanism, even if not without some admixture (reference to the “spiritual Sun”). It is however necessary to see that Crowley did not put Satan in the place of God, given the high regard in which he held traditions, like the Kabbalah, which venerated a divinity, even if conceived metaphysically and not religiously.

People often tend to overlook his other achievements besides being an occultist, ceremonial magician. He was also a poet, painter, novelist, and mountaineer and concentrate on his heroin addiction and hedonistic side.

It's not as if Crowley was not aware of his addictions, he weaned himself off of these drugs many times. Although in his last years until his death he did consume heroin, but it was for his asthma attacks. In Crowley's liber 93 is a detailed account given:
>I, Baphomet 666, wishing to prove the strength of my will and the degree of my courage have poisoned myself for the last two years and have succeeded finally in reaching a degree of intoxication such that withdrawal of the drugs (heroin & cocaine) produce a terrible attack of the "Storm Fiend". The acute symptoms arise suddenly, usually on waking up from a nap. They remind me of the "For God's sake turn it off" feeling of having an electric current passing through one, and of the "Super-structure" of the Baltoro Glacier. The psychology is very complex and curious: I think a detailed record of my attempt at breaking the habit will be interesting and useful.
https://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/lib93.htm

>>22098084
KEK

>>22104001
Why did and how did Gandhi sell out India?

>>22098084
>and then wrote 640 paranoid letters about his betrayal and his belief that the pupil was casting hexes on him from Morocco
What?

>>22098063
>>22098620
>>22099438
>>22101470
Adam Driver kino when?

>>22105477
you didn't see paterson?
he plays a bus driver poet

>>22103173
>>22105367
they hate him because he was quite eccentric and didn't oppose the creation of pakistan
or they wrong attribute the ideal of strict non violence to him as being cucked even though gandhi's non violence was only tactical for the time
you have to take into consideration that indians are fairly bitter people and will hate someone for minor grudges

cant believe the Romanian bum disavowed Guenon

>>22103315
Why did traditionalists behave like this? Schuon, Coomaraswamy (3 marriages), Evola (walked around Rome in a woman's dress). Guenon is a normie and that's good.

Scott Auckerman looking mf...

>>22101450
>midwit opinions
discarded
>without believing that Pythagoras and Plato derived their sublime theories from the same fountain with the sages of India
yeah it's called reality

>>22098084
This is why I pay to have internet

>>22098084