/lit/ - Literature

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
The slogan 'Press On!' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
-Calvin Coolidge

Best OP image yet. Truly elemental.

>>22090279
>two posters
Breh

>>22090500
Seems that the persistencepost was OP's, not that one

OK Fine - so the men’s right movement is a little flaccid, but in a few decade’s time we will have done away with gender norms like ‘the man must make the first move’ or ‘be the hunter’ and so on and so forth: it is inevitable that the role of ‘man as agent’ and ‘woman as object’ will reverse to a certain extent, and our boundaries will blur into nothingness. But there’s no way _she_ could have known anything about that - she was just a cute latina in 7th grade and addicted to cock - but regrettably not to my own.

Why, yes, I have written 2,000 words today.

>>22090512
How do you get the # of posters? Are you a janny?

For pantsing writers, how do you prepare your outlines? All the advice I've seen for preparing seems too in depth for my writing style.

>>22090565
It's at the top of the thread on the right. The real pros use 4chan X to automatically track when the number goes up

>>22090569
3 bullet points, a sentence each: beginning, middle, end

>>22090571
No, I mean the (2) next to the name in >>22090512's picrel.

>>22090589
That is the aforementioned 4chan X feature that tracks when the number goes up

>>22090569
i pants casual work (FANFICTION YES) but am meticulous with my serious stuff. For casual, I just come up with a premise that is complex enough to be interesting. As I write, I think logically about the events, but also take whatever opportunities I find to do something interesting. Between innovations and logical consequences, it generates enough depth and complexity to carry the story through and guides future development, for those consequences to unfold and loose threads to tie up. And by logically followed events, I mean emotional development as well as action and dialogue.

Many people who try to pants do it out of laziness. But to do it well and get a good result you can't be an intellectually lazy person. You need to think about all the shit you are writing from every angle to find those event threads and know how to layer them and tie them in to give a good result with balanced pacing and satisfying development.

can i be a good writer if i have no internal monologue and have aphantasia?
for reference my meyers briggs is

>>22090623
Sure
Do you like reading?

>>22090640
yes but i havent really read book that grabbed me in a while

>>22090651
Then you can do it, give it a try
Of course everyone still has to work hard to get good

>>22090658
no im not going to

One of the frustrating things about writing is how little conscious control you have over it. But, also, nothing happens without constant rigorous conscious attention and shaping.

Any time the perfect sentence suddenly strikes me, it's like it emerged independent of my will, and I just gratefully record it. But I can't just go full automatic-writing mode and let the subconscious take over; that leads that meaningless rambling. I have to identify which bits aren't working and try different approaches to them over and over and over, and then eventually (hopefully but not always -- in fact rarely) something will click.

It's like do all the grunt work, and take all the risk of missing whatever the unconscious is trying to tell me and instead driving things into a dead end that wrecks the story, but none of that grunt work is visible in the final product, and the unconscious gets all the credit.

>>22090569
very limited. most stuff I outline is sort of background that never really hits the page. most scenes are in my head. I may step back every now and then and give some bulletpoints if I need to fill, or prevent, a plothole

a lot of you are fucking garbage at writing . classer males who think they've scalped something real are meme .
red a book
read a book
writing
it's all brc

>>22090742
yeah we know we're garbage—shut the fuck up
we post here to get feedback to improve

>>22090742
post your writing, troll
we'll try to be fair with it, even though you're being a jerk

>>22090623
>i have no internal monologue and have aphantasia
You're baiting. I refuse to believe this. Go on, tell us more. How you experience the world sounds fucking alien

>>22090917
i just kind of sit around and sometimes do things for no reason
i dont really think of it like that in the moment or anything. just how its described to me.

>>22090921
How do you read a new word? How do you sound it out in your head?

>>22090937
i dont really do that. you sound out words? i just kind of read them. if i get it i get it and if i dont i dont. it is what it is

Any rules to keep in mind when you're forcing yourself to write as to avoid procrastination and induce constant progress? I have plot points and know what i have to write but fear that my dialogues and prose became ill written when i'm not "in the zone".

Is it okay to post excerpts here and ask for critique?

>>22091025
Of course

>>22091025
Yes, it's mildlu encouraged in fact. But feedback can be hit or miss

>>22091035
>>22091036
I'm too self conscious to post it on the internet forever

>>22091025
Isn't that what most people do here?

could someone please update these.
https://kemono.party/patreon/user/53768
https://kemono.party/patreon/user/28766589

>>22091022
>ill written when i'm not "in the zone".

Whether you're in the zone or not the first draft is going to be shit. Just accept that and keep writing.

>>22091043
Pastebin. You can adjust it to auto-delete after a set time.

any resources for writing in first person?

>>22091079
My diary desu

>>22091081
Post excerpts lol

>>22091084
NTA but I posted my diary from when I was like 18 and no one said anything and I'm feeling KINDA crummy about it

>>22090944
Do you at least look up new words in the dictionary?

>>22091124
no i just keep reading

>>22091128
You'll never understand anything that way.
You can't just guess at the meaning of words.

>>22091146
i dont guess i just read the idea of looking up words never occurred to me

>>22091088
>this guy has a diary
Ha! What a queer!

>>22091022
Perhaps you need to write something that you find more engaging.
I've got several ideas for short-form as well as long-form fiction, but they languish in my master 'ideas" outline-document, for lack of further inspiration.
Instead, I end up writing things I'm feeling at the moment.
For instance, after reading >>22089931 and the page it linked to, I came up with a LitRPG plot. Now I'm writing it. Who knows if I'll get very far with it, but it's what I'm feeling at the moment.
I've got 2,000 words out of it at the moment (nothing out of you, >>22090553!)

>>22091088
how do i learn to write this good? i'm 30 and this is better than anything ive written

>>22091153
Unwarranted snark aside, a diary can be very useful for writers.
I've found that writing about any subject tends to unblock what i want to write about other subjects.
Free-writing is one of my antidotes to writer's block, and a diary gives one an easy excuse to free-write.
Which you might have known, had you ever tried it.

>>22091065
Absolutely, stop expecting much of yourself and be blown away each time you finish a chapter (its shit, but its done, time to revise).

>>22091157
This works, currently fleshing out character wikis to get a better grasp on my characters, working out pretty fine with my mind slowly settle down to a nice rythm.

From the restaurant the traffic was immense. Men and women passed through in a
continuous stream like ants. Roger stood at the curb while his father bused the
tables. Roger could see him through the big glass window. His father's hair was
slicked back and shiny and he had a napkin over his left arm which he held with
such poise that Roger found himself emulating it unconsciously. He seemed so
friendly to these strangers.

A child bounced in his seat in one of the tables and Roger watched his father
lean in and say something to the family, to which the child said something back
that made everybody laugh. Roger couldn't make out what he had said. His father
tousled the boy's hair like they were well-acquainted but Roger knew he only
did all that for the tips.

His father looked like someone who had gone through a terrible ordeal, someone
who had to cope with some great truth or evil. His face sometimes took on the
hollow, vacant stare that Roger had seen in Mr. Cadwallow, the old veteran with
the missing fingers. Maybe his father had been in the war, Roger wasn't sure.

Later Roger's father came out into the alley to take out the garbage and he lit
up what looked to Roger like a cigarette at first, but on closer inspection was
marijuana. At church the pastor had been railing against the evils of of that
drug, warning all the parents of its devilish influence. As he watched the
clouds of smoke turn black among the dumpsters, Roger's throat tightened. He
noticed his shoelaces were untied and rather than knot them, slipped them into
the sides of his sneakers. When he looked up, his father had gone back inside,
but he could no longer find him through the window.

>>22091207
Exactly! You have to write what you feel like writing, not what you think you "should" write.
The latter is a sure route to writer's block.
This is why I enjoy improv writing challenges; it gives me something different to think about, and since I don't have any attachment to the result, it tends to come out silly and whimsical.

>>22091167
I might try it simply for the sake of astrological research. But it sounds like too much effort. So I probably won't.

ive got no internal monologue and aphantasia. my meyers briggs is istp
i am diagnosed as a hylic in gnosticism

this is an excerpt from what i have written down on the most recent thing i am writing
https://pastebin.com/y6AUBJ9Z

Little thing I'm working on: https://pastebin.com/6gmUWK1R

>>22091088
I think you did good for an 18yo, anon. Good onyou for reading Dazai at 18 and another pat on teh back for still being alive today

>>22091088
Hey, did you say once that you felt your diary felt cringy because you were in a dark moment in life? I don't remember your exact wording, but in that case I remember you. I loved your style too, I feel like it characterized you quite vividly. It's definitely above average

How do you know what things to focus on when getting feedback on your work?

I sent a draft of a short story assignment off to 4 different people and the feedback was inconsistent.

The Teacher said:
>That I needed to fix my tenses and my dialog formatting was wrong.

A former student of the class said:
>That I use too many adverbs and that is the sign on a weak writer.

An avid fantasy reader said:
>That there isn't enough use of adverbs and descriptions.

Someone that doesn't read much said;
>That the story was good and engaging. The only flaw as that it ended suddenly.


In a real world scenario wouldn't I be trying to pander to the lower two?
How do I filter what is good and bad when I get mixed responses?
Obviously I will listen to the teacher for the grade, but they said very little on the story content.
Am I just approaching this the wrong way?

>>22091380
You can't make everyone happy.
You have to choose your audience.

>>22091223
>From the restaurant the traffic was immense.
makes no sense
> Men and women passed through in a
continuous stream
is the restaurant a mcdonalds?
>Roger stood at the curb while his father bused the tables
bused tables. no the
>Later Roger's father came out into the alley to take out the garbage and he lit up what looked to Roger like a cigarette at first, but on closer inspection was marijuana.
so many problems. Roger seems to be everywhere, like a little camera drone. he could tell it was marijuana from the smell, not on closer inspection
>As he watched the clouds of smoke turn black among the dumpsters
what?
so extra words where you don't need them in a couple places, so its reads awkwards, here's an example but there are others
>Roger watched his father lean in and say something to the family, to which the child said something back
and the ending is nonsensical with the laces
are you ESL, by any chance?

>>22091392
That is a fair sentiment.

I guess I am just confused at what all the fuss is with having '-ly' at the end of things, yet I can say a characters name 50+ times over 2k words and no one bats an eye.

In this case the audience is my teacher, so I will just edit for that.

Cheers for the insight.

Looking for flash/short fiction or biographical stories on the topic of "Modern Grindset" if any of you guys have something you'd like to share on my substack (https://tookys.substack.com/).). Male POV or 3rd, thematically in line with other stuff on there - read the 'About' section and submit via the email there if interested.

>>22091277
This is very good. I really liked the specificity of his physicality/descriptions. The framing of things/verbs used e.g. the swatting the sweat that was crawling was great too. If I'd picked this up randomly I would have kept reading so congrats you have an interesting voice/scene here. Two minor changes I would make:
-China-like -> china-doll hands
-cut "strong" before sun as it seems redundant to me

>>22091380
consistent tenses and dialog formatting are essential. Adverbs are a matter of taste and can be played with later/vary by genre.

>>22091444
Yeah the tense thing is a personal hang up and one I try to edit out. As is run-on sentences. But the teacher still caught a few.

The dialog itself was tricky because it has to be written in Australian Written English. While I am more used to the Americanized way.

Why isn't there just a World version that everyone is taught and uses.

With the adverbs being all about taste, that is 100% what I got from the feedback. Some people like the extra fluff and feel more immersed in the story, others want to paint in the gaps themselves.

Personally I feel like that is an obvious distinction between speed-readers and those that actually read through.

I want to have a certain character join my protagonist's party that has nothing to do with the plot of trying to save the world and is just along for the ride and fun. how do i write this well?

>>22091536
They might not have anything to with the plot, but they could be important to a character.

Like they do with so many shoe-horned romantic interest characters. But ah, don't take the romantic interest route.

>>22091536
Do you mean how do you get the character with them and keep them there?
First things that jump to mind would be exactly as you said, they join the party because they want the adventure even if they don't have a motive that aligns with the reason for the rest of the party being on that journey. You could give them a skill that fills a role which has to this point been unfilled. Even if you already have a full party that covers the weaknesses of each member, you could give them something like cooking or cartography. These are useful enough for them to not be kicked out or driven away, but not so useful that your perfect party is conspicuously missing a single piece until this person shows up. Though it really isn't inherently bad if there was a clear gap and this person ends up slotted in. You could even have the rest of the party trying hard to convince them to stick around because they want this final piece, but this person lacks the same determination to overcome the harsher reality of such a journey.

>>22091536
have this character come into contact with the hero during one of their missions. perhaps with the same goals (but different ethics, and ways to go about it). they could also be in opposition. a merc that does it for the thrill.
if you give me some story context i can give you better examples.

>>22091253
please respond

>>22091088
Can you post another excerpt?

>>22091253
>no internal monologue and aphantasia.
i was wondering if this combination existed. you're kidding right? checking it out in the meantime

>>22091569
That sample was almost impossible to unravel.
The sentence structure was idiosyncratic (to put it politely), and there were no quote marks to denote speech.
Perhaps you should reconsider using a dictionary, and try to understand some of the text you try to read.

>>22091578
i dont understand why i would need to use a dictionary specifically

>>22091253
>ive got no internal monologue and aphantasia
How does it feel to live in death? do you keep raising your eyes to the far corner of the office where the real lithograph is? do you keep raising your eyes to that corner of the office where the real litograph is? do you keep raising your eyes to that corner

>>22091253
it's alright. you need to write properly though, it's hard to follow without quotes.
ignoring that, you use exposition where you could describe the actions (though sometimes you're good about this). there's some oddities that come off as ESL, too. but not all of it. the story is alright.
alcohol like moonshine dehydrates people.

again, you'll have to write properly at some point. this will otherwise be ignored by most.

>>22091581
what

>>22091579
Because your writing clearly reveals that you don't understand what you're reading.
Continuing to read after you pass a word you don't understand is a good way to render yourself near-dyslexic.

>>22091593
>writer properly
what do you mean
>se exposition where you could describe the actions
point to where? ive been trying to look for that

thank you very much for your attention

>>22091599
well, you have grammatical errors. you're missing punctuation. there are some weird word choices, some weird use of english in general. this excerpt would fail an english gradeschool assignment.

still, the storytelling is alright.

LUCKILY you can probably just drop this madness into chatgpt when you're done, and it will do the english part for you.

>>22091606
i dont use chatgpt. funny enough in gradeschool i was praised as the best writer ever. what errors am i making?
>>22091596
ive never had trouble understanding words i think

i forgot to say it but i also have a tested low iq

>>22090500
OP never counts as a poster

>>22091594
Your soul is impatient with itself, as with a bothersome child; its restlessness keeps growing and is forever the same. Everything interests you, but nothing holds you. You attend to everything, dreaming all the while. You note the slightest facial movements of the person you're talking with, record the subtlest inflections of his utterances; but you hear without listening, you're thinking of something else, and what you least catch in the conversation is the sense of what was said, by you or him. And again what he's already answered. But you're able to describe in four photographic words, the facial muscles he used to say what you don't recall, or the way he listened with his eyes the words you don't remember telling him. You're two, and both keep their distance - Siamese twins that aren't attached.

This is the introduction to a short story I am writing, inspired by the video game "Rain World". Please let me know what you think, or criticize it all you want.
https://pastebin.com/f8xZ6gWy

>>22091623
I like it, but again, nothing to really criticize, write more, don't seek short dopamine rush.

Help an ESL out. What's a "grounds keeping prose"?

>>22091614
>what errors am i making?
almost every sentence has errors, at least as far as punctuation goes. there are other grammatical issues, and more subjective problems with flow/clarity.
i don't want to start picking through this.
i was half-joking about using chatgpt to fix it for you, but it's a great learning tool. you're asking way too much from us, but it will deal with all your nonsense.

>>22091636
i dont understand what you mean by errors at all can you please provide an example?

>>22091614
>ive never had trouble understanding words i think
>i also have a tested low iq
And...you don't suppose these two facts are related?

could someone give me a NEAT writing prompt? for practice

>>22091665
start by adding quotation makes to dialogue. ill help with the rest if you can do that much.

>>22091635
It's a reference to a certain shill-spammer that shits up /lit/ and /wg/ on a regular basis.
Be glad you're not familiar with him.

>>22091665
Not that anon but lets take a look at your very first sentence.
>Have it your way you idiot the scum brandishes a wooden club.

That's three different thoughts in one sentence. Read it aloud. It sounds like nonsense.
>Have it your way!
>You idiot.
>The scum brandishes a wooden club.

>>22091675
Anon, IQ inc the ability to see abstract relationship. I believe this snowflake won't be able to understand your query.

>>22091691
Probably, but I come here to help anons with their writing. I don't choose who posts here.

>>22091675
maybe
>>22091677
are quotations that necessary? not trying to be an asshole but i was recently reading a book that didnt use them and i didnt have trouble keeping track of things
>>22091681
oh i see. im sorry for wasting your time. but thank you for all this effort.

im trying me best to be better even if i am stupid
its funny. ive browsed this thread on and off for years and years. i posted work here that got praised i use to have something. but years of brain degeneration has completely ruined me as evidenced by the latest reactions.

everything i write is a deformed bastardization of my outline, every dialogue feels like a parody of its character, i wrote parodies of the story i have in my head. I'm done.

>>22091721
>are quotations that necessary?
only if you don't hate your reader. that other book you read? that author hates his readers

>>22091724
post an example please. but you should probably outline less, it'll allow you to more naturally discover your character's voices

>>22091734
i was inspired by the bible and another book ive been reading. i like simplicity but it looks like ive failed to make something youd want to read
i will try harder and make changes and write more and come back in a week then

>>22091743
well the bible assumes that all the people reading it are current or future slaves to yahweh. so it's clear the authors hated their readers

>>22091724
i want to read some of it before you die

>>22091740
>>22091755

go ahead blast me up, I have no will to edit nor continue this story as to defile the idea more.
https://pastebin.com/czHYcNEp

>write my entire novel in LaTeX
>publisher only accepts Word documents

>>22091769
this is why I don't use linux
that and all the troons

>>22091769
AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHA
techbugs status: smushed

>>22091769
This is why you use a typewriter

>>22091765
the start is great, with only some small nitpicks.
but as i skimmed ahead, i could quickly tell it wasn't very coherent.
would you agree?
do you want some suggestions for the intro at least? or anything specific?

>>22091765
so setting first draft tense issues completely aside you have a character problem and you have a plot problem
characterwise you have way too many all at once, you have this tiny little carriage with like a hundred people in it, and they're totally irrelevant. the old woman and her children are the worst offenders.
worst of all we don't know very much about your protagonist. we assume she's going to the capitol for magic training, but you didn't actually say that. but that aside we don't know her likes or dislikes very much at all.
alexei dies at the end? if he doesn't even make it a chapter don't even name him.

the other problem as far as plotting is they talk (about nothing important, except for the sickness, but you don't need the sick child to demonstrate the sickness) then she falls asleep and they're suddenly under attack. you should have shown the attack. the carriage slowing, men yelling, people inside getting nervous. that's the plot the reader desperately wants. to hear about the girl and to see the current predicament. focus on those two things and on everything else much less

What about this
>yuri
>monstergirls
>harem
>slice of life mix with monster of the week
>airships
>air pirates
>steampunk

>>22091885
Get rid of the first four and then sure

>>22091893
>sky islands are scarce so they are heavily controlled by a government ran by a religious tribe that performs blood sacrifices of the populace to their god
>oc is a short lesbian in the closet who inherits a shitty sky blimp from her adoptive grandfather who needs medicine
>she races out to earn income by being a courier
>goes well for the first month
>until she meets the pirates
>pirates are sky elves who use her as a cumdump
>suicidal and in pain as her rectum is destroyed by eleven cock she leaps of the boat
>crash onto a sky island bellow
>finds a naga who fucks her back to health
>the two become friends and go back to her grandfather
>find out he has been kidnap by the tribe
>he is 7 islands away
>on their adventure they recruit more monster girls that fit all the fetishes
>rescue grandad
It's just a rough idea but I think its a bit too lewd

>>22091909
generally, your reader is associating/empathizing with the protagonist. you then have them raped by elves. who is that appealing to? they are now the elves? it doesn't work like that.
unless you want to be the raped sissy monstergirl. in that case, carry on.

>>22091380
>>That I needed to fix my tenses and my dialog formatting was wrong.
Yeah, you need to get this right, or avid readers will be annoyed and even casual readers will have a little more trouble understanding you. Luckily it's effortless once you're used to it.
>>That I use too many adverbs and that is the sign on a weak writer.
Note that this is about specifically adverbs (modifiers for verbs), not adjectives. Adverbs are very easy to use, and so they're easy to overuse, which makes your sentences monotonous. Try replacing some by adjectives and descriptive verbs and descriptions, you'll get nicer sentences with just as much detail.
>>That there isn't enough use of adverbs and descriptions.
This is a matter of taste so you can go either way. But mind that it doesn't necessarily conflict with the previous point.
>>That the story was good and engaging. The only flaw as that it ended suddenly.
In a real world scenario this is very important yeah. Maybe not as important to your teacher.

>>22091428
>I guess I am just confused at what all the fuss is with having '-ly' at the end of things, yet I can say a characters name 50+ times over 2k words and no one bats an eye.
Adverbs affect the flow of the sentence, names don't have to.
And repeated names don't stand out because they contain very little information to begin with. A repeated name is more like a marker.

>>22091769
Pandoc

>>22090553
1.2k a day bros rise up and overthrow this smug tyrant!

What's the difference between a light novel and a more conventional novel? I originally thought length, but I've seen some pretty long light novels.

>>22092142
>light novel
Directly associated with anime. Usually extremely poorly written. Pulpy, uses anime images to buttress a complete inability to describe setting and characters with words. You can subscribe to their authors' Patreon and follow them on RoyalRoad.
>novel
Usually poorly written, although the level of quality is such that it's at least seen the touch of an undergrad-level editing process. You can follow them on Twitter and Facebook.

>>22092199
i want to put images in my book that i drew myself. i cant draw whatsoever but i hope readers appreciate the effort. its not a lightnovel or anime stuff or anything like that.

>>22092201
Effort has no intrinsic value in writing. Readers will respect the effort you have put into getting good, not effort you have put into getting not-good.

So, has urban/contemporary fantasy fallen by the wayside in the traditional market? I'm hearing some agents are rejecting the subgenre on sight.

>>22091022
Just write it down and fix it later. The first thing you learn from any writing class/book is that your first draft will stink

How does the format for short stories differ from that of long form stories?

>>22090216
Hi, I'm an emerging writer, soon will publish my first book(in greek) "Lost history of ancient Greece", here's a tiny part of it, pls r8.

They raised their hands all together and prayed :"Mighty Neptune, we summon you and beg you to save us, your worshipers, from the evil force that is coming from the horizon, the ships of barbarians, they sharpen their swords and tighten their belts getting ready to kill us when the sun drowns and the night will crawl in our sheds. Mighty Neptune, lord of the seas and the oceans, we worshiped you through centuries, we sang glory to your name and your kingdom, we sacrificed our best crop and cattle on every moon, throwing them into the storming seas, cutting their throats first, so the blue sky of your kingdom can turn red and please your eye. We sacrificed our strongest and prettiest children, boys and girls, to you each year, we pushed them from this sacred cliff into roaring waves, so they can satisfy your passion, and then get eaten alive by the beasts from the abyss. Now we stand here, on the edge of this cliff to bring you our most valuable sacrifice, our semen. Yes, oh Mighty Neptune, the greatest of all kings, our entire village, all our kids, families, wives, sisters, have gathered here to feed the waters of you kingdom with our semen and semen of all our pets, cattle, and horses, in return we only ask you to smash the ships of evil intruders into pieces with the waves that are bigger than the dragon mountains, home of our ancestors". They took their clothes all together, all males started to masturbate viciously, saying prayers "Neptune, come on, raise the waves", young males were coming fast, the older ones asked their wives, sisters, to give them prostate stimulation, loud moaning stood in the air and, together with semen droplets, was being carried away by cold November winds blowing from the mountains. Females of all ages, all naked, were masturbating the falloses of horses, bulls, dogs and pigs, cats, making them shoot huge loads of sperm straight into the blue waters. When the all male beings came and dropped the last droplets of semen hanging on their cocks into the seas, the miracle started to unfold in front of their eyes. Seven huge waves, bigger than mountains suddenly raised from the sea surface and rapidly moved towards the horizon where enemy has ambushed in their ships. In seconds the huge waves crushed upon the ships and drowned them all, seamen that tried to stay afloat were dragged down by hoards of mermaids. Villagers were screaming ang hailing the name of their mighty savior, Neptune, and, in order to show him their gratefulness, they pushed off the cliff all their kids into the roaring waves that were bashing against the granite rocks. Soon they returned home and were celebrating this glorious victory through the entire month, by getting extremely drunk and having sex with their horses.

>>22092427
Pure kino

written as an exercise to finish something written, thus is shittier than anything I would care to write, if anons could confirm

>>22092436
Thank you, the book will be thoroughly illustrated so the reader can have a detailed picture of the events that once were so essential in the lives of or great ancestors

>>22091159
>>22091352
>>22091363
Thanks, I was just joking about being crummy. I actually only got into writing this year-ish. In the last 5-6 years, the only recreational writing I did were this two journals from different years, both only around 7000 words. I'm not journalling anymore but my brother said I should give writing a try, which is why I've been lurking on this general. Very fun hobby I'm finding it

>>22091571
Sure, here's an excerpt of me being a fucking faggot at my first University party. I was literally that "my feet hurt" guy. I blame /lit/ for me bringing up Stoner during a conversation with a girl

>>22091571
>>22092515
And here's the next day where I go back to lonerdom and walk into the forest at midnight like a weirdo.

Rediscovering these entries I realise how much of it is just me complaining about my life. Makes me sound really insufferable—that kinda was the point of the journal though, I mainly just used it as catharsis because I often kept my feelings to myself. Speaking of my brother he showed me his journal (which he actually does keep and has kept everyday for years). His entries are a lot more pragmatic and short form: "Went to play table tennis, James beat me, lmao" stuff like that, kinda like he was texting himself. If you guys keep a diary you should post it, I am curious to see how others record in theirs.

What software do you guys use to organize your thoughts? I'm looking at scrivener right now but want to know of alternatives. Paper is just way too messy for me and it's annoying

>>22092515
>>22092532
Mine is the same. It's even more insufferable than yours because I wrote in a purple style. I really think that neurotics shouldn't keep journals, or if they do they shouldn't be freeform but focused by some format or task. Like a list or an exercise. I remember I used it once to learn new words and that was actually useful.

>>22092532
>girl says she has crime and punishment on her self
>spill spaghetti about it and show your /lit/ powerlevel
>"oh uh, I haven't actually read it"
anon...

>>22092532
I burned all of my journals before I went to college. But it was like this through all gradeschool
>rehashed jokes from cartoons
>inside jokes with the boys
>existential loathing
>outlines to possibly fantasy series or games
>complain about the chores I had to do for my parents
>draw girls with exaggerated hourglass figures and huge tiddies
>give my thoughts about books

>>22092427
Neptune is the name of the Roman God, not the Greek one
I would advise against calling it "November" assuming this is in pre-Julian days, it's best to keep the audience in the same frame of mind as the characters and modern words confuse that
Those are probably the only things that would put off readers

>>22091769
Then use pandoc to convert LaTeX to Word, dummy.

Still going... bros...

>>22092542
I use an outline editor called TreeLine.
It's capable of far more than I use it for; so far, I just attach a free-text box to the outline-title.
It's free and open-source, too.

>>22091885
>composing stories like he's searching for hyperspecific doujin
death to coomers

>>22092542
I've completed more manuscripts than anyone here and I use libreoffice. Stop blaming the software for your own incompetence.

>>22092829
post your writing, troll

>>22091623
Continuing on, I have more sections from this story. I am posting them here because I am tired of reading them back to myself. Be as critical as you like.
https://pastebin.com/t3qHpn4k

>>22091623
>inspired by the video game

>>22092542
I use wordpad. When I can't, I use pen and paper instead.

>>22092829
>Stop blaming the software for your own incompetence.
Anon, you're projecting too hard. He literally just asked for something to help him organize his shit. That said I use mind meister

>>22092851
You can mock all you like, but GameLit is a huge genre, and you're just making yourself look old and out of touch.

>>22092840
>I'm a troll because I tell him Hemingway could have written on toilet paper and come up with better than any software could ever give him

you're a procrastinating wannabe with no talent

>>22092869
>GameLit is huge
So is tiktok and becoming a tranny. More popular than ever with the generation whose taste you're appealing to!

>>22092869
GameLit suffers from the same fundamental issue isekai novels do: vast majority of them would be a better story if they were played as straight fantasies. The first time you read the stories that defined specific tropes, like that one LN that popularized monster evolution and taking skills with level pop-ups taking up 1/3 of the chapter, it's cool. The 4th time I want to shoot my brains out. It's a genre that attracts so many lazy people because by its nature it makes people want to tell, not show.

>>22092872
The asshurt you're radiating is palpable

>>22092872
No, you're a troll because you called anon incompetent simply for asking for advice.
Then you crowed about your multiple manuscripts, without providing evidence.
>>22092883
Guilt by association, eh? Pretty weak argument.
It amazes me how people post in public with rhetorical "skills" that a middle-school debate team could demolish.
Clearly a Dunning-Kruger downward spiral.
>>22092886
"Better" is subjective.
If it's what the readers want, and will pay for, why not give it to them?
Nothing is stopping me from writing something "better" at the same time.

>>22092820
I only write coom. Most of it is too /d/ for this thread.

>>22092542
Emacs org mode. I write in libre office than copy it to the org document. But I use linux, so that might be hell on windows. You could use bibisco, its like scrivener.

>>22092908
>Guilt by association, eh?
I can tell you are a sophistry fan, so I'll keep it brief. You said I seem old and out of touch, implying that I'm out of touch with young people. By doing so, you have yourself promoted the tastes and inclinations of the younger generations. You are implying that younger people have good taste, and that older people need to "get with the times." Otherwise, being out of touch has no significance to the discussion.

I simply pointed out that appealing to the consensus of a generation of young people cutting their dicks off at record rates while posting about it on tiktok is probably not the hill you want to die on.

I've been doing this whole "arguing on the internet" thing since before you were out of diapers, Timmy.

>>22090216
Sci Fi writers should send their short stories to Analog Magazine.
they publish a lot of new authors.

>>22092925
I'm not implying younger people have good taste; I'm implying they exist and are a market. Being out of touch affects your potential income negatively.
And I was arguing on BBSes long before the Internet was made available to those not in college, big corporations, and the government.

>>22092935
>they exist and are a market
Then we have nothing to discuss!

>>22092908
>If it's what the readers want, and will pay for, why not give it to them?

You're assuming. GameLit is an incredibly saturated market and there's a reason why it's so looked down on - because it attracts people who are doing what you just stated: looking for a quick buck. It has a lot of noob traps and pitfalls and is prone on a fundamental making people tell, not show. There's a reason why some of the most popular stories in this genre all lean more into the fantasy element than the game element and at that point why not just make fantasy? IMO there's very few pros from making a gamelit novel over a fantasy novel

>>22092934
Appreciate the tip, will check them out

>>22092938
Pretty cowardly exit.
Looking forward to hearing about your multiple manuscripts.
Because if they were published, you would have referred to them as "multiple published manuscripts".
They're just collecting dust, aren't they.
>>22092939
Who's looking down on GameLit? Sounds like a strawman argument.
Who cares if the market is saturated? I lose nothing by writing something in that genre. Maybe my second attempt will be better.
"Very few pros" is also a strawman argument. Why would that matter?

>>22092756
Thank you, that's a very important advice, in addition to this I'll probably add a more detailed graphic description of rituals, because the current one is too bleak and uninformative, feels like more passion, colors, movement is needed, god, it's so hard to create a painting with words, so many things still missing in that scene, there is music and ritualistic dance, drums and flutes, rivers of red wine, there are big fires in the shape of spiraling circle, bulls caged in wooden cells, all in fire, women in spiritual extasy dancing loosely and singing loudly summoning chants, the old leaders wearing goat horns smearing blood, mixed with ashes and soil,all over their skinny bodies, drunk young men picking fights with each other, some fall off the cliff in this mess, hungry seagulls instantly crushing upon their bodies and eating them while they still breathe, women going crazy, pouring red wine on thein tight naked bodies, they look demonic, wine turned their skin in dark red, their long black hair is messy and looks like dark-red guts hanging from their head and pussies, and it's only their mad green eyes and white teeth from time to time show up through the mess of their hair as they jump and turn rapidly throwing hands around, etc., sometimes i think only movies can portray the story in the most detailed way, because it uses so much media to express the action

>>22092939
Gamelit is saturated in the way romance is saturated, lmao. Easily as big a paying audience as authors trying to make money there. Regular fantasy is 20x harder to break into.

>>22092954
>Pretty cowardly exit.
What's the point? I'd just dress up the fact that I think you're a gigantic fag and a profiteer and you'd get defensive, try to argue for your MUH MONEY MUH AUDIENCE ideas about writing. I'd just end up annoyed and it would be a completely pointless conversation because I'm never going to respect you or get you to discuss anything in good faith and you're really not my problem, ultimately.

>>22092954
>Who's looking down on GameLit? Sounds like a strawman argument.
What "authoritative" source would you want me to provide that I can prove people look down on GameLit?
>Who cares if the market is saturated? I lose nothing by writing something in that genre. Maybe my second attempt will be better.
Opportunity cost. You would be better off as an author writing a Fantasy story then dipping your toes into GameLit due to the aforemention pitfalls and traps that are in GameLit.
>"Very few pros" is also a strawman argument. Why would that matter?
If you want to write a subpar story because you think you'll strike it big by shoveling out shovelware be my guest anon. The only one who will suffer from your choice is yourself.

>>22092971
Romance is saturated but it's a lot easier to find a niche audience in due to how varied people are in their tastes. GameLit is significantly more restricted - you're going to be struggling incredibly hard to stand out among the masses. Just look at /trash/, people crave romance stories even if there's no smut in it. There's never been a bigger market for romance than now.

>>22092976
>gigantic fag
homophobe
>muh money muh audience
Enjoy writing critically-acclaimed literary fiction that doesn't sell worth a crap.
Oh, wait...none of your multiple completed manuscripts are published, are they.
And yet you have a gigantic ego. Not sure why.
>I'm never going to respect you
I don't care what a troll >>22092829 thinks of me.
Also, nice projection. You crave respect, don't you?

>>22092978
Suggesting that regular fantasy is a better chance of making money than the rapidly growing gamelit genre removes all of your credibility lol. Just a delusional take

>>22092991
>he thinks he's going to strike it big by writing
Writing for the wrong reasons and into one of the worst genres for a new writer - destined to fail

>>22092987
And, as predicted, there you are, getting defensive and defending MUH MONEY MUH AUDIENCE. I don't know if you see a point in arguing with me, but I sure don't see one in arguing with you.

>>22093011
Not sure why it's being defensive to advocate writing in a popular genre.

>>22093011
He failed writing 101 - writing primarily for money is one of the big no-no's. He's a lost cause

>>22093016
>advocate writing in a popular genre
NTA but if you want to do that that's fine. If you want to do it for the sole sake of money and you have nothing in your portfolio and you're asking /lit/ for constructive criticism you're out of your element and are clearly walking down the wrong path.

>>22093003
Not the topic at hand. Topic is marketability and making money, and you suggesting fantasy is better for that is legitimately laughable.

>>22093023
>Not the topic at hand
No, I think it's pretty topical. You want to write for money? The fuck do you have to show that you're even capable of that? What's your portfolio? What have you done? Why do you think you're not just wasting your time writing trash instead of writing in a different genre that'll help you grow as an author? Just another idiot out of their league hoping they become the next SOA

>>22093042
idk why you're pretending that litrpg is written by a bunch of pros. it's literally the easiest genre to break into. Many of the big patreon names are random college students writing for the first time. You have 0 clue what you're talking about

>>22093052
>Many of the big patreon names are random college students writing for the first time
For every 1 of these guys there's thousands of failures praying they end up striking it big. I see this shit everywhere. Go look on /v/ and see all the WEG's. For every big shot patreon raking in hundreds of thousands a year you get hundreds of failed "games". You've set yourself up for failure and disappointment just like those before you. pic related is you on the right

>>22093064
Everyone knows making a living writing is hard. But it's about 100x easier for a new writer to make a popular gamelit web serial than a standard fantasy/scifi/etc. So learning to write that genre and hoping you strike gold is perfectly fine. If nothing else anons 2nd attempt will be better. Saying 'write fantasy instead' is a trog take.

>>22093064
Also, I'm not that anon. I'm literally one of the maybe 2 or 3 people who frequent wg who make a living writing, and I started out writing trash genres too. You're making way too many assumptions about people

>>22092542
openoffice version of excel for notes/outlines. all the boxes and the ability to have multiple sheets for different sections make it really nice

>post excerpt from a story
>spawn argument between two unrelated users that spans a third of the thread

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kcuai_wBCS4IBW3G-NHLdvEzNrtm1De5LyETjBnCxLo/edit?usp=sharing

Inspired by Chronicles of a Death Foretold, but certainly not at the same standard of writing, I wrote this short story.

It's about a high school wannabe thug who gets murdered.

Please tear me apart. Stylistically, structure, etc. This is my third short story and I don't know if I am improving at all.

"""""gamelit""""" is literally just r.l. stine's fucking goosebumps, except instead of a cover you can run your fingers over, it's just got HBO-tier smut with video game elements shoehorned in. it's literally just young adult fiction, and appeals to the male version of the kind of 30 year old spinster who still reads harry potter and hunger games. /wg/ is literally overrun with YA fiction enthusiasts and somehow it's supposed to be okay. can you fags just go get your own general?

@22093140
Who is he talking to? This is certainly an experimental genre, emulating an unhinged forum user who descends into madness. Maybe try composing all of your posts and submit them to an artsy literary magazine?

>>22093140
Pseud litfags only masturbate to the idea of writing, so no, we belong here more than you do

>>22093114
pastebin please

>>22093017
>writing primarily for money is one of the big no-no's
tell that to Dickens, among a host of others

>>22093140
It really needs to be in its own thread. The entire purpose of this thread is to help people write better and the entire discussion was about making money via patreon regardless of quality of work.

>>22093151
>Comparing yourself to people with genuine talent
Also a big no-no

>>22093158
The entire purpose of this thread is "writing general", not critique general, retard. Marketing, audience, and genre is part of writing. Well, not for you pseuds, since you'll never publish, but the point stands

>>22093167
>Marketing, audience, and genre is part of writing

>>22093167
jew hands typed this post

>>22093164
>being a literal aids carrying homosexual nigger
you gotta quit being you, anon

>>22093173
Straight up comical you think that's not true. The state of 4chan writers lmfao

>>22093017
>failed writing 101
MFA pseud
Also, I was required to have two half-minors in addition to my major, and chose linguistics and literature/writing.
And I didn't fail any of my writing classes...not even close.
>>22093021
>asking /lit/ for constructive criticism
I never asked for that. Besides, this board mostly dishes out demotivational failed-crab seething.
>>22093064
>For every 1 of these guys there's thousands of failures
Sounds like every other genre.
>>22093158
>help people write better
But to what end? Critical acclaim? (otherwise known as the consolation prize for "didn't sell worth a crap")

>>22093179
>defending trend chasing
>in 2021+2 year of our lord
The absolute state of this general

>>22093179
>4chan writers
feel free to go back to wherever it is you came from

>>22093185
I like visiting the zoo.

>>22093183
>Also, I was required to have two half-minors in addition to my major, and chose linguistics and literature/writing.
>And I didn't fail any of my writing classes...not even close.
and yet here we are

Glad to see you guys were arguing over dumb shit while I was out there writing. Have a good one, nerds!

>>22090216
I think you should tell, don't show

>>22092290
I disagree entirely.

>>22093114

In February the wind whips down the suburban cul-de-sacs. It burns your ears and dries out your skin. The temperature drops below minus twenty for most of the month, and when accounting for the wind chill, which all residents do, below minus forty. In fact, it was twenty-seven degrees below zero on the night that Cameron Prefontaine was murdered.

On the day that Cameron was to be carved up like a ripe summer watermelon, he woke at five to eleven and had no recollection of any unconscious hallucinations. He didn’t dream and it had been months since he had. “The only good thing about taking a tolerance break, is that you have crazy dreams” he stated often. No more than five minutes had passed before Cameron rolled over to check the time on his Motorola. While still halfway in the comfort of his heavy duvet in his still dark basement bedroom, he carefully rolled a dose of tobacco out of a flaccid cigarette, encouraging it with his thumb and finger, and mixing it judiciously with some already shredded marijuana from his stainless-steel grinder. He inhaled deeply and held the cooled smoke in his lungs as he placed his lighter on his bedside table.

The sky was clear, and the sun was bright as Cameron walked to school. Outside of the biting wind it was almost a pleasant winter day, but when the dry flurry kicked up, it bit at Cameron’s cheeks, and he buried his chin into his chest and pulled his hoodie over his ears. “You need to get a proper toque, those flat brimmed hats don’t do nothing in the winter” his mother had scolded him only a few days before the dirty kitchen knife was plunged into his chest. “You keep that thing on all day even in the house! you should let your hair grow like when you were young, you look like a thug with that buzz cut, and you shouldn’t wear sweatpants to school, I bought you those nice jeans”. He preferred black dickie pants, and that was what he wore as he walked in long strides, speeding up as he turned the snowy corner and saw his beige three story school. The precast concrete sign that proclaimed the name, address and eagle logo of his alma-mater served as the perfect respite from the skin-drying wind and allowed Cameron to light up his first cigarette of the last day of his life.
Btw here is an excerpt.

>>22093215
genreshit doesn't count as writing

>>22093221
You should tell when showing would fuck up the pacing.

>>22093193
I make a good living with my major.
Writing is somewhere between a hobby and an infinitesimal chance to win the lottery.

>>22093215
Just as long as it's not purple, twee, navel-gazing self-insert, like >>22054344.

>>22093230
Sorry to break this to you anon but "litfic" has been the exclusive domain of queers and middle class radlib women for the past few decades. Eat your heart out. Genrebros stay winning and actually get readers and engagement.

>>22093248
Sadly I cant look at contemporary lit on GoodReads or otherwise and find many people writing about anything that might be enlightening, outside of maybe five authors. I really appreciate the scene that /lit/ has.

>>22093290
If you're looking for something enlightening, I'd say just read old books. As for writing, I don't think there's much point to writing something profound unless you really want to.

>>22093298
I do read lots of classic lit. However this isn't just my reading, it's more general frustration with contemporary lit. This generation's challenges are so insane I find it hard to believe that there arent more talented authors dissecting it in literature instead of non-fiction or editorials. I'd love to see more nuance. When I look on the blurbs about books it's about trying to survive or some coming-of-age issue. And those are fine but I don't know how people can present contemporary reality only through trite revelations. I know the 21st century can do better.

>>22093380
No it can't lol. Why would you expect good literature when there are challenges? Difficult times result in shit production. Especially on the literary front. Anyone who's in a serious crisis has better things to do than write literary masterpieces. In a postmodern, post-ironic, cynical age of the masses you won't find any deep, sophisticated, enlightening novels. It's just not happening.

>>22093230
>writing down words to tell a story
>doesn't count as writing
Well, why don't you give us an example of your writing, oh so great literary genius?

>>22093428
seethe more genrefag manchild

>>22093468
>genrefag
>manchild
I'm the one who's angry? You, who appeared 15 minutes later, to spasm your fingers across your keyboard to make this "witty" rebuke?

>>22093476
trying too hard

>>22092987
>anyone who tells me my ideas are incorrect is a troll
with the ego in your head we could power enough hot air balloons to replace the entire existing passenger jet fleet globally

>>22093106
I have found him: the most autistic man on /lit/. Hats off to you.
>>22093140
based
behead coomers
behead genretoddlers
behead rentseekers

>Leave for three years
>Come back to ask a question
>Literally the exact same arguments happening as when I left
Almost impressive, honestly.

>>22093561
yeah last thread was the first time I've checked this general in like a year and a half, two years - same arguments about "anime OP pic" that I remember from when they first became a controversial issue. So dumb.

>>22093561
I left for about 5 months and had the same experience. Though at least a thread schizo left in the time I was gone. I won't bring up anyone else for fear of them thinking it is an invite to shit up the thread again.

>>22093537
If you're trying to be witty, you need to be less wordy.

>>22093626
I agree, it was a bit of a tortured expression.
To keep in line with the original post, I'll try this.
>Your head is full of enough hot air to power a steam engine.
Not super happy with it, but for taking a minute or so to write, it could be worse.

>>22093183
>But to what end?
to the end of becoming a better writer, you fucking insect. writing well is an end, in and of itself. it's the only one that matters.

>>22092805
>to know it kept bucks broken that need keeping in that way

the writing virgin vs the storytelling chad

>>22093636
Hot air doesn't power steam engines. Steam does.
Also, you're still seething, so this isn't an improvement.
>>22093637
So, picking up a new genre I know nothing about, and writing something serviceable in it, isn't a sign of being a good writer?
For example, a good TV writer must able to pick up characters one has never seen before, and write a serviceable script.
That's why you see the same writers between shows. It's not because they're toady lapdogs, it's because they're quick studies, and flexible.
Let me guess...your definition of a good writer is one who can impress college literature departments, and sounds like it was written a century ago?

>>22093626
if you want to pass as a woman: you don't

Are there any stories that put the lit in gamelit, that really could pass muster in a college literature department, or is 100% of it slop?

>>22093680
>Let me guess... [contrived, self-serving straw man]
writing well is the sign of a good writer. it's so tiresome to see bug man #1275612931 taking something that could otherwise be so beautifully subjective and to it arbitrarily tying its favored quantitative metric. you are literally incapable of imagining a world in which someone chooses to have their own subjective system of values. instead, you have to Choose The System under which your values are subsumed.
>well, if you don't see money and Writing The Genre as the bedrock of your values, you must be, uh, looking to college literature departments
no, retard. the best sign of being a good writer has nothing to do with learning a new set of frameworks with which arbitrary, marketing-gimmick """"genres"""" are formed. that has absolutely nothing to do with writing at all.

>>22093725
More deflection.
My guess is you're the anime seether who recently insisted on making the OP.
Either that, or you're an equally banal pseud.
Neither is a good look.
>>22093750
I had to take a guess, because you won't post any of your writing. (Which also fingers you as the anime seether, who has apparently only written one thing.)
And I can write in a way that you'd approve of, and I have, but those works don't sell worth a crap. So I'm trying something else.
Even Melville followed up the badly-selling "Moby Dick" with something more ribald, in an effort to increase sales.
And marketing "gimmicks" exist because they help connect readers with written works. They wouldn't exist if they didn't work.

>>22093725
Don't what? Be witty? Try to write clearly when arguing about writing.

>>22093773
>Which also fingers you as the anime seether, who has apparently only written one thing
christ on a fucking stick, retard, give it a fucking rest. you're just throwing shit at the wall to see if anything sticks.
>And I can write in a way that you'd approve of, and I have
then fucking post some writing or feel free to fuck off.
>The shit has dried around my ass hole, forming a shit-wafer which might then be eased tenderly off living flesh, observing carefully the delicacy of the substance clinging clinging clinging filamentous, only slowly to release its hold on a bare-again sphincter winking into Turds' End, a recursion of sorts -- O fecal fractal! I clean the dribble from my cock and hand with paper towels first, and then in the sink with an extra moment's attention paid to my finger. Paul's been paid, and Peter had nothing to do with it.

>>22093791
OK, so you're not the anime seether.
Kind of sad that you sound just like him, though.
That's just borderline hylic.
And I'm not the one claiming to have multiple completed manuscripts.
>faux-literary festering
Why am I not surprised?

All this energy spent arguing could be spent on writing instead

>>22093726
>Any examples of a fun, popular genre that conform to a snooty, unpopular set of standards?
Talk about ivory Tower logic. Ick.

>>22093843
I agree. I can't even use this argument as the basis for a fictional one, because my opponent du jour is such a mindless hylic pseud.
Though I am writing in between responses.

Does anyone here make a living from writing novels? I need some motivation.

>on second draft of first novel

>>22093680
Firstly, I am not the anon who wrote the original post.
And if you contained hot air in a pressurized environment it has the same properties of expansion as steam. We use boiling water because water expands much more efficiently than simply setting a fire to generate hot air for pressure. For an example of using fire to generate hot air and using that rising and expansion is a hot air balloon.

>>22093726
This reminds me of a lengthy survey of children's TV I saw as a kid, written by someone who had no idea what kids like.
#1 on their list was "Masterpiece Theater". Like, gag me.
I remember their reviews of shows I liked.
One said "Basically schlock. Quite dreadful."
One just said "No redeeming values."
I went back and watched those shows as an adult, and those snarky reviews were right...but then, I'm no longer a member of the target audience. And they never were.

Someone to give me a prompt so he can judge my writing? I will try a short story

I don't even know my flaws with nobody to judge me,

>>22093860
Very few people make a living from writing novels.
The real money is in selling the TV/movie rights.
Whoops, there I go again, talking about money and marketing as it relates to writing.

>>22093869
Write a story about the OP image.

>>22093847
I like the chewier stuff. It's fun. I enjoy it. I'm not saying it to be snooty. It doesn't have to be hard to read, some acclaimed literary stuff is pretty easy going.
Is there any gamelit that scratches that itch? There exists fan fiction like that.

>That's just borderline hylic.
>I can't even use this argument as the basis for a fictional one, because my opponent du jour is such a mindless hylic pseud.

>>22092829
I find your claim doubtful. You're probably counting 10k word stories as manuscripts.

t. 25 novels written

>>22093888
More deflection.
Never mind.
You're a bore.

>>22093886
I don't know...everything i know about gamelit started with >>22089931.
But I remember rather liking Never Die Twice.
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/32067/never-die-twice

Pianists practice their scales, painters do their studies to improve, but what do writers do to develop? I can hear it already, since I am familiar with this subreddit: "read and write". Well thank you very much (but not really, smart ass). I am looking for actual exercises that writers can do, akin to the training drills that exist for virtually all other artistic disciplines and technical skills.

For example, one might consider the following exercises:

Develop your observational ability by staring at an everyday object until you notice something you have never noticed before. Now put that into words.

Widen your comfort with different prose forms by copying the style or structure of a famous passage from a novel.

Write a short scene about a fight you had with someone in real life. Now write it from their perspective.

Write a very short story about going shopping, and write it in 3rd person past tense. Now write it in 1st person present. Now write it in 2nd person future tense.

Some of these may be good exercises and some may be stupid, but they do something that the simple advice to "read and write" doesn't do: they provide an exercise aimed at developing a particular part of your writing, be it empathy or observation or point of view. That's the kind of thing I am looking for.

Okay. So what are some good exercises for improving your writing? What are the best ones? What are your favourites? What's one you'd like to try?

>>22093872
Well I hope to write something good enough to be turned into a movie/tv show

>>22093910
>Well I hope to write something good enough to be turned into a movie/tv show
50 shades of gray was made into a movie. it follows that literally anything is "good enough" to make it to the silver screen. not the best litmus test.

>>22093910
Last year somebody gave me an exercise from The 3 AM Epiphany and I picked that book back up just today. Here's the one I'm working on now, give it a try if you'd like. I'll post mine later.

>>22093910
https://www.google.com/search?q=creative+writing+exercises
>Now write it in 2nd person future tense.
You will go shopping today!
You will buy that Jabba The Hutt figurine!
It's going to be cool!
Hmmm...I think that would get old pretty quickly.
Still, a fun exercise.

>>22093919
No, that's actually very encouraging.
Because you know they drove dump trucks full of money up to that author's door.

>>22093931
if that's encouraging to you, you'd do better buying lotto tickets. you'll have a better shot.

lads has any of you ever had any success trying to get a sponsor for your up and coming book? like be it a crypto bro or someone rich off instagram... idk

>>22093946
>get a sponsor for your up and coming book
This nigga just jump out of a time machine from renaissance italy?

>>22093954
Im not your nigga you nigger

>>22093935
The odds of self-publishing success look quite a bit better than playing lotto.
https://wordsrated.com/self-published-book-sales-statistics/

>>22093946
I really need that too. Need a patron. Would be willing to give up my butt for it ttoo. ANy takers? I'm fit, have six pack can cook adn clean

>>22093930
sounds like an advertiser's or totalitarian's wet dream
You will own nothing and be happy!

>>22093991
I can always count on you to deliver the most negative take on any subject.
It's almost precious.
Never change.

>>22093946
There's a web site for that...it's called Patreon.
If you're young, female, cute, and love change, there's a different web site for that...SugarDaddy.

I often name antagonists/villains in my novels after people I hate and want to see humiliated. They are portrayed as uniquely violent, arrogant, crass, sadistic, cowardly, and unintelligent. The protagonists exploit their hubris to defeat them.

I often name antagonists/villains in my novels after people I hate and want to see them present my world view. They are portrayed as uniquely problematic, confident, refined, rational, proud, and intelligent. The protagonist's hubris often results in his humilation at their hands.

>>22094005
they ask for too much stuff on patreon... my book contains anti jewish sentiments in it, schizo ramblings, killing of jews as one of the main plots of the first chapter, that kind of thing, you know what I mean? I can't use patreon.

Let's say I do, I would guess I would have to put on the epilogue and the first chapter for free to attract new patreons for the 2nd chapter to come on, right? is that how it works?

Like I said my patreon would get nuked the moment one big nosed individual gets to the report button after doing a quick ctrl + f "jew", and even if it doesn't... my name would be public and my entire career would end in that first chapter

At the end of the story the jews aren't that bad but I would have to put the entire book for free at that point and hope someone actually reads it before blindly reporting it or nuking it.

Does this make sense?

>>22094032
>my book contains anti jewish sentiments in it, schizo ramblings, killing of jews as one of the main plots of the first chapter,

add blacks to that, but it's not what you are all thinking, it's actually for the plot not really a catartic thing or to get some steam off about blacks and jews

It's not pg13 or mainstream is my point, Patreon would delete the entire page and block my paypal, debit and credit cards, etc

>>22094044
Nobody is "sponsoring" you. You'll be lucky to sell 5 copies.

Moving on.

>>22094032
Hmmm.
Have you considered asking your local Nazis to sponsor your book?

>>22094062
post nose with timestamp

>>22094032
that's why you need to change your genre to fantasy. suddenly you're not killing jews, you're killing skaven and vampires

>>22094069
it is fantasy

>>22094065
you are probably being pedantic but no I haven't considered asking nazi groups about financial support... which I might do who knows, but I think they would get mad seeing that I dont paint jews in a bad light or in any light at all

Do people lack the self-awareness that they come off sounding they're straight out of some guy's strawman of how they think an English/philo major snob sounds like?

>>22094096
That's half the fun

>>22094108
I don't think default losing every single argument you have is fun because you're sounding like you're eternally seething with every post. It's also cringe

>>22094112
Just let it go. You don't fit in here, that's all right. Just let it go.

>>22093427
Interesting take. I will keep that in mind.

now that I read some of these posts of whatever it is you are arguing about, I realize that JK Rowling managed to write a book with anti jewish propaganda in the very first chapter of her book and went on to become a huge franchise, using welfare as her source of income for that very first book... if she did it then there is a path for it somewhere

>>22094112
You win some, you lose some, but it's more fun than obsessing over my posting style which is the only way I know to stop writing like this
I write like a stuck-up schizoid by default and normalposting takes a lot of effort

>>22094087
>it is fantasy
then I'd highly recommend dressing it up a touch more so the genital mutilating usurers with the funny hats have a slightly more difficult time shutting you down

>>22093427
Most of Russian history is terrible, yet they produce great literature. That would seem to be a counterpoint to your assertion.
>>22094087
So...you paint the killing of Jews in something other than a bad light?
4chan...where the wonders never cease.
>>22094126
>>22094160
What's the difference between you and a simple-minded, banal troll?

>>22094164
I will try to do that. Like I said it's nothing bad against the jewish diaspora anyway... just a random fantasy book with elements of real life.

Anyone have any experience using patreon for their books? does it work like I said?

>I would guess I would have to put on the epilogue and the first chapter for free to attract new patreons for the 2nd chapter to come on, right? is that how it works?

The only way for it to get discovered by people is if I link it everywhere right?

>>22094171
>What's the difference between you and a simple-minded, banal troll?
I have good productive discussions pretty regularly

>>22094171
>So...you paint the killing of Jews in something other than a bad light?
>4chan...where the wonders never cease.

a character's family/friends are jewish, they did something incredibly bad, they get killed, so jews do get killed. You big noses need to drop your persecution complex

>>22094171
> Russia
I would argue that the opposite would be more likely. True peacetime creates the most forced shit. Look at the absolute state of writing right now.

I legitimately don't understand how a person with no internal monologue could be a writer. Let alone aphantasia on top of that. Frankly, I'm doubtful such a person even exists that could operate a computer. I don't get it, do they think? Do they imagine? If you leave them alone in a room with nothing what does their brain do?

>>22094236
Man, I lived for over thirty years taking inner voice and mental imagery for granted.

>>22091088
Try to be clearer, what you can say with less words is better. it might make sense in your head, but the reader will feel like you are going in a very roundabout way just to say something simple like describing weather.

The sky showed no signs of clearing, sun rays were but a mere memory as the grey mass clouded over and obscured the horizon. A short flash blinded the world and like a starting gun the thunder's descent was followed by billions of water drops bringing the sea under our feet.

It was a rainy afternoon. Especially in diaries, you are writing for yourself any intricacies will feel artificial and break the immersion.
You could argue to be a british gentleman who only writes with the most compelling imagery or that you are appealing to a public of very learned readers but clarity is the strong point of any writing.
The clearer you are the more you can stay on point and get the idea across to the reader.

>>22094400
I may have been a bit personal, in the sense that i ended up giving you the critique I should receive.

>looking at agent's page to see what kind of fucking books they fucking want
>"tee hee I was born in [big fuckwit city] but now I live in the suburbs, and oh, i have not one cat but TWO, and I just lovelovelove [beverage]! teehee i'm so quirky"
>nothing about what books they're looking to rep except for meaningless wordsalad and a few references to diversity

Is every single fucking agent a narcissist? Please God let Iran bomb Brooklyn

>>22094423
>Is every single fucking agent a narcissist?
Well...yeah.
https://www.culturcidal.com/p/does-liberalism-cause-mental-illness
Trust the science.

>>22094423
Recently I had a county librarian come to a talk about how books get banned. When she was asked to introduce herself, she was inevitably asked what her favorite book was.
She said she listen to audio books constantly and often listens to a new book everyday. She listens to so many books that she admitted she doesn't remember the last book she heard that well. Then she said her favorite book series was Harry Potter. I really wonder what kind of books she's been reading that she couldn't think of a better book than Harry Potter out of potentially thousands.

>>22094523
Probably seething woke feminists books about bringing down the patriarchy. They all sort of blend together.

>>22094108
>>22094112
Not really involved with this but sometimes when I'm posting on this board I pretend to be malding and being btfo just because it's fun. It's like theatre. And the other anons feel good because they think they're impacting me emotionally. It's a win win.

>>22094171
>Most of Russian history is terrible, yet they produce great literature. That would seem to be a counterpoint to your assertion.
Who produced this great literature? You will find that, even when we are dealing with very traumatised authors like Dostoyevsky, we're *also* dealing with aristocrats. And Tolstoy also was an aristocrat. These are people with a certain level of hereditary sophistication to their psychology, and also good connections and wealth. A nine-to-five wagecuck zoomer today will not write Crime and Punishment even if he has the exact same character and insights as Dostoyevsky did.
And what about the Soviet writers? Notoriously not on the same level. But when they did make it big, they made it big in an environment of revolutionary fervour and state support. Again, not something you will find today. The closest thing you will find today are libtards grifting on the intersectional grift, and they are indeed very successful and productive - they are just banal and uninspired writers.
Deep, profound and well-developed works require deep life experience on behalf of the author, as well as wealth, free time and connections. Even if the first criterion is present, without the others, you get nothing.

>>22093427
Suffering has resulted in some of the greatest pieces of literature we've ever had, the fuck are you on about? Same goes for basically every creative discipline

Do they tattoo the gay-bbq acronym on their wrist for quick reference? Are they subscribed somewhere to get notified when it updates? Can ONE fucking person actually recite this off the top of their head?

>>22094523
>banned books
>widely available on amazon, walmart.com, and every public library system in the country
Still waiting to learn what is "banned" about them.

If we don't let gradeschool students read 50 Shades of Grey, does that constitute as a banned book? What about Playboy? Those billionaire werewolf romance books? If we don't stock b.w.r books for elementary schools, are we book-burners?

>>22094574
Anonymity can't hide the fact you're a sociopath.
I post here because I can tell unpopular truths without being canceled by whiny babies.
That experience is literally not available anywhere else on the Internet.

>>22094685
>WAAAHH CANCEL CULTURE
You're actually a manchild if that's why you post here

>>22094666
wish normies would stop politely tolerating the perpetual spiral of tokenism now that it's become thoroughly farcical. To stay /lit/, any literary agent who thinks the linguistic abomination of an 11-character acronym is appropriate to use shouldn't be trusted anyway.

>>22094666
We certainly live in weird times, don't we.
The only analogy I can find is of the great empires of the past, right before they fell.
Especially the way the Byzantine Empire ended.
Also, kudos on the based Satanic triplets.
>>22094676
You're trying to make sense.
That doesn't work anymore.
Now, the woke left believe their feelings are more important than objective reality.
Again, this is an empire before the fall.
Sure hope you've stockpiled a few years worth of food, and the weapons/ammo to defend it.

>>22094692
Really? Do you act the way you do here, anywhere else on the Net?
Of course you don't.
So stop projecting. It's really obvious.

>>22094709
I don't think you know what "projecting" means, Mr Newfag.

>>22094712
Sure I do.
You're accusing me of something that you yourself are guilty of.
To be specific, what you're willing to post here, and not anywhere else on the Internet.
I'm supposedly a "manchild" for practicing the same behavior you do.
I tire of arguing with phony idiots.

>>22094724
I'm accusing you of... caring about cancel culture? You yourself admitted to that. You're demented

>>22094731
Are you claiming cancel culture doesn't exist?
I can't even believe I'm asking that question.
What's the weather like up your own ass?

>>22094742
Why do you care about it?

>>22094744
Because it can ruin lives in a heartbeat, and its adherents are bat-shit insane?
A recent example is Target receiving bomb threats from some unhinged leftie who didn't think they were 2SLGBTQQIA+ enough.
Maybe you live under a rock.

>>22094676
She explained that "banned" is more of a buzzword. These days, a library has a form where someone raises a "concern." The library officials and librarians pull the related books and see if there's an issue. Most of the time there isn't and things remain as they are. The next most likely course of action is that it's discovered the book was miscategorized, so it's placed on another shelf. Sometimes, the concern is over a less controversial case of pedagogical value. In one example, the facts in a non-fiction book are so out of date that it is misleading. In those cases, the book is removed from the library and replaced with a more accurate book. Those are the most common ways in which a book is moved around.
However, the cases in which a book is "banned" that trigger the buzzword is when a book is deemed to lack literary value, pedagogical value, age-appropriateness in certain types of schools, and other reasons. When a book lacks these criteria, there are a few things the library can do. First, they can leave the book in library anyways by challenging that it has educational value for a niche group of people or people interested in them. The book can also be located to a more appropriate shelf of low brow content, or to a restricted bookshelf a reader needs permission to access. Failing all else, the book is removed from the library entirely.
Some education systems have different definitions of pedagogical value, such as in Texas. This causes them to restrict access to books or ban them completely more often than other states and is really where a lot of the ire is focused regarding "bans". But no one actually has an issue with a book being banned exactly, because many people that challenge bans want other books banned. The issue is about censorship. Associations that challenge these bans do this on the lines of open forum with the libraries to determine whether the book was banned for personal or political reasons, meaning it would be censorship. If the discussion cannot determine that it's censorship or convince the library the book had pedagogical value, then the book stays out. It's interesting to note that many discussions like this are round-table. There is no burden of proof usually, it's usually pretty civil. Also consider that libraries constantly prune books because they can't shelve them all, and if it's difficult to establish that a book has any kind of merit or contemporary acclaim it will probably disappear anyways. Most of the drama that we see is just culture war shenanigans and people pretending to be oppressed by people in another city who have no control over them at all.

>>22094751
You watch too much TV, boomerbro

>>22094236 Apparently it looks like >>22091253

>>22094762
I haven't had broadcast/cable/satellite TV in well over a decade, and I've never had a streaming service.
Also, I've been warned repeatedly at work by my boss, who wants me to tone down my "unfiltered communication style". If only he knew how filtered I really was...

>>22094762
Not him but this stuff is real. I dont get these 4channers who are clearly in a bubble admonishing those who aren't. This is genuinely how the world works now. I experience it every day in real life. People keep pretending all this stuff just exists on twitter and act like they're smart for not caring. All I have to ask is what rock are you living under

>>22094768
>>22094773
stop using twitter

>>22094685
What exactly is sociopathic about this? Is banter also sociopathic, do you suppose? I am just having fun doing something else you can't do anywhere - goof around.

>>22094781
I'm not on Twitter.
I only go to Twitter to download new videos of lefties humiliating themselves.
Here's a favorite...
https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1620189837906296832/video/1

>>22094793
Because you could be using your anonymity to do good, not to make the world an already worse place than it already is.

>>22094781
And how does getting warned by my boss...warnings, BTW, which show up in my performance review...have ANYTHING to do with Twitter?
>>22094773 is right...you live in a bubble.

>>22094794
>I only go to Twitter to download new videos of lefties humiliating themselves.
dude, you're basically my dad. That's what my dad does

>>22094798
This is 4chan retard.
I thought you were getting trolled but you might actually be the one trolling.

>>22094798
>Because you could be using your anonymity to do good, not to make the world an already worse place than it already is.
Actual fedora tipping newfag over here lel

Baked Bread
>>22094785
>>22094785
>>22094785
>>22094785

>>22094781
>>22094802

not any of them but my university is filled with these types of people. ive never even been on twitter

>>22094814
that guy is also trolling, anon

>>22094818
what? you're trolling me to be honest

>>22094809
Even though this thread is still on page 1?
Spaz much?

>>22094802
I do one thing that your dad does.
Therefore, I'm basically your dad.
If your thinking process is this vapid, your writing must suck horribly.

>>22094837
pyw

>>22094849
I haven't done anything to earn your demotivational failed-crabbing, so I won't post my writing here.
I won't ask to see your writing; I know you don't have any.
I've been writing the whole time, though. I've added a 2000-word chapter to my game-lit today, and in a short while, I'll complete another similarly-lengthy chapter.
And you'll seethe about that, because your arrogance won't allow you to take that stick out of your ass, accept that times change and tastes change, and just have some fun.

>>22094870
pyw, coward

>>22094870
>game-lit
lol

>>22094874
Says the guy who won't post any of his own.
Go to Hell, pseud.

>>22094878
>critically-acclaimed lit-fic
lol

>>22093140
>can you fags just go get your own general?
You trolls would just migrate there to shit on the thing you don't like. So what's the point?

>>22094904
Says the local troll

>autistic AI fag is also the litrpg fag
God help us

>>22094878
At least I can take my writing straight to the people.
You have to run a woke gauntlet of tradpub agents whose relevance evaporated years ago.
For all its drawbacks...I prefer my way.

>>22095004
>anti-AI-seether thinks at least 6 separate anons are one person
>finally believes in God

So I was lying on my back with my legs spread wide open, staring at the ceiling as the doctor fiddled around with his tools. He had this look of intense concentration on his face, like he was trying to solve some kind of complex puzzle. And then suddenly, without any warning, he shoved a massive carrot right into my pussy.

I let out a gasp of surprise, feeling the thick vegetable root stretching me wider than anything ever had before. It felt so good, yet so wrong at the same time. But the doctor just kept pushing, until the entire length of the carrot was buried deep inside me.

He looked down at me with a smirk on his face, and said "What's up, doc?"

I couldn't help but laugh, despite the fact that I was still reeling from the shock of having a carrot rammed up my cunt.

The doctor started to slowly withdraw the carrot, and I could feel every inch of it dragging against my inner walls. It was such an incredible sensation, I almost didn't want him to stop.

But then he did stop, and for a moment there was silence in the room. The only sound was the steady beeping of the heart monitor, and the occasional squeak of the bed springs underneath me.

And then the doctor spoke again, his voice low and husky. "You know," he said, "I think we might have found the cure for cancer."

I raised an eyebrow, not quite sure what he meant by that.

But the doctor just smiled, and reached over to grab another carrot from the tray beside him. This one was even bigger than the first.

"Trust me," he said, "you're going to love this."

(do I have potential?)

>>22095053
>suddenly, without any warning,
Paradoxically, these words give the reader more warning than no words at all would.
>I let out a gasp of surprise
"Of surprise" is unnecessary.
> It felt so good, yet so wrong at the same time.
cliche
>But the doctor just kept pushing,
Why did you start with sentence with "but"? What previous statement is it contradicting?
>a smirk on his face
Where else would it be?
>and said "What's
Proper punctuaction is to have a comma after "said".
>I couldn't help but laugh, despite the fact that I was still reeling from the shock of having a carrot rammed up my cunt.
Don't explain the joke. Let us find it funny by ourselves. Cut everything after "laugh".
>I almost didn't want him to stop.
Almost? Why would she want him to stop at all? You've shown no drawbacks to the scenario.
>But then he did stop,
He didn't stop, the sensation did, which is an it.
>And then the doctor spoke again,
You're overusing "and then."
>he said, "I think we might
Proper punctuaction is a stop after "said."
>I raised an eyebrow, not quite sure what he meant by that.
Let the action speak for itself, don't explain it. Cut everything after "eyebrow."
>But the doctor just smiled,
You're overusing starting sentences with "But."
>he said, "you're going
The comma shouldn't be a comma and the dialogue should be capitalized.

what should my book be about?

>>22094666
>a bloo bloo bloo how can anyone memorize half a phone number's worth of text
The zoomer cannot imagine life before the digital address book

>>22095783

>>22092438
I know this thread is old now, but you really need to show and not tell. "He was rough of mind and broke laws and he was young doing it." If you really want to outright say this instead of slowly establishing it, why don't we try something along the lines of "As a young man, he was a jailbird - a rough-and-tumble one, not the petty thief kind." I just feel like this is a chore to read through. "He has this quality and this quality and this quality. This happened to him and then this happened, but also this happened."

>>22095725
i will take the best idea (# of ideas so far: 0)

>>22095725
Lesbian magical girls.

>>22096105
>>22096163
maybe, i'll check back in 8 hrs.