/lit/ - Literature

You could start reading Aleister Crowleys work. /x/ would probably be a better board for this type of question though.

>>22073535
The occult is basically all devil worship and it's highly cringe. Try esoterica because that doesn't have magick or divination or other satanic practices.

>>22073535
Occultism is a modern form of esoterica

In my opinion, occultism is a degenerate form of esoterica

As history has progressed, we have lost knowledge as well as gained it

Most occultism is vulgar egotistical sorcery practices

True esoterica however is a form of mysticism compatible with most exoteric religions

The source of this esoterica in the west is mostly Plato, the Neoplatonists, the Hermetica, and the Hermeticists

There are several famous overviews of the history of esoterica. If you can withstand scholarly texts, I'd suggest Hanegraaf's works. If you want something more "fun" or practical then try Levi's Haute Magie or MPH's Secret Teaching -- I prefer the former, however, both are biased and historically inaccurate so take with grain of salt

Crowley says in his major work, Magick, that he is interested in mysticism as true "magick"

His life story otoh proves he was too narcissistic to truly achieve such tho

He wanted to create his own religion which is pretty ego inflated behavior

He also worked with demons, had gay sex, did drugs, etc.

Anyway, ya, study religion and study esoterica: any of the histories mentioned should lead down rich rabbit holes

I would ignore Crowley and Golden Dawn type deviants for the most part

Especially avoid Chaos Magic as it is the most vulgar and immature form of occultism

On a side note, you might get a kick out of Eliade's Shamanism. He believes it to be the ur-archetype of all religion and esoterica which I find believable. Once again, try to note the differences between "good" shamanism and "bad" shamanism. Applies equally to esoterica...

>>22073766
>Aleister Crowley
Lol, lmao even

>>22073870
One day I realized I was just a bad person.
>>22073766
I read Liber AL vel Legis.

>>22073918
The original glowie. Cant believe otherwise educated people fell for that dumb bald fat fucks larp just because he had an english accent.

The occult literally just means hidden. It is synonymous with the arcane, the esoteric, etc …

People once thought medicine/poison was literal sorcery/witchcraft—the word for pharmacy is derived from an old Greek word that once meant sorcery. People once thought that astronomy, math and artifice were the stuff of literal wizardry—the names of Archimedes, or Pythagoras, were voiced as wizards.

Or just simple ignorance. The Greeks took the Jews as a race of wizards (Moses, Solomon, etc), and Spaniards forced them (Jews) to bless their crops because they thought they were a magical people.

What does a physicist say when they confront something new and/or bewildering? “Huh, that’s weird, I wonder how that works …”.

The universe is a magician.

Ignorance is the greatest magic of all.

Everything we don’t know is everything else out there—and there is nothing more occult than the deep black unknown of space.

>>22073892
Shamanism shares vital shared traits with mediumship, necromancy, theurgy/goetia, mysticism, henosis, channeling, etc, all of which can be found all over the globe in some form.

The problem with the occult, or just traditional esoterica/mysticism, is that it is focused around art. It is all overly artistic, much like religion, folklore, myth, etc.

Humans deeply want that visual (artistic) meaning to go with existence. They don’t see it as the bigger field that it is. Which is psychological. Humans are enslaved to their imaginations. They play pretend and *believe* it. For thousands of years. Isn’t it incredible?

Religion and belief, these things are all about the control and dominance of the mind/masses. It extends to memes and media. Something doesn’t have to be real if you believe it. Faith isn’t supposed to be honest as a rule. Propaganda is a tool.

Magic lies within the mind’s eye. What is magic to one is not magic to another. It is a lot closer to traditional stage magic (metaphorically speaking) than most want to acknowledge—which is the ultimate red pill.

All that shit is sugar coating, veiling the truth. It is functional, weaponized ignorance, potentially. The stage magician is no longer a mere stage magician if he has successfully convinced his onlookers that he is summoning demons…

The modern sorcerer is the sinister charlatan with more presence to fool his subjects. The modern wizard is the mad a scientist who pursues the edges of understanding.

Paracelsus, the brightest chemist of his time, thought that jerking off into a chicken egg would produce a slave/minion (the homunculus). The brightest minds of their day often fooled themselves. Wizards/“sorcerers” were weird people.

The inability to agree on magic kind of IS magic… since it (magic) is a way of looking at things.

A cellphone is basically a rectangular wand.

>>22074012
Not a bad post (am >>22073892 ) however I would say the realm of imagination is bigger than the individual mind. Minor quibble but important point nonetheless.

Anyway, terrible fantasy series, but your talk reminds me of that legend of the seeker quote: "wizard's first rule is people are stupid"

>>22074029
>the realm of imagination is bigger than the individual mind.

Well, yes, look at the Islamic world … The psychosphere is very real/present, and it shepherds the masses.

Isn’t limited to religion either. Look at Covid hysteria.

You need to understand religion first, then move on to esoterism.
AND DO NOT PRACTICE SHIT YOU READ ABOUT

>>22073535
Guenon annihilated Western esotericism and it never recovered. There's a difference between it being criticized by physicalist academics and it being criticized by a disillusioned man who genuinely believed in the potential of true knowledge, spent years investigating these systems and societies personally, and finding nothing each time.

>Guenon annihilated Western esotericism
>a fucking larper
kys

>>22073535
You would be better off studying the bible instead
>>22073766
Even Crowley became familiar with Christ at the end

>>22074054
Guenon was a complete pseud. Completely unfamiliar with his own western traditions and romanticized any and all oriental traditions. That said, ofc the masonic / theosophical type societies he joined didn't possess any knowledge. They have been recognized as pseudo-intellectual cults since their inception. Hence their appeal to pseuds like Guenon. Undoubtedly, Evola was a better philosopher by far. He possessed the noble spirit capable of auto-initiation. That said, the average /lit/ loser is prolly more Guenonian than Evolan in spirit and hence prolly will require a guru daddy to initiate them because they lack the intellect to find truth on their own.

>>22074043
Not bad advice. Religion is backbone of esoterica. And yes. Practices should not be engaged unless you know 100% what you are doing. Otherwise, you may end up biting off more than you can chew.

>>22074034
Any good books on this topic?

I got:

Eros and Magic in Renaissance
Hounds of Actaeon
Mana and Mass Society

Anything I am missing?

What would you suggest? Or are you more auto-didact?

>>22073535
Frater posted a lot of this bullshit on /x/
https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/13957757/#13957982

>>22074076
Esotericism can only be understood in the context of religion. Christians destroyed western esoteric knowledge and divided it from religion, not some midwit larpingnigger.

>Practices should not be engaged unless you know 100% what you are doing.
Knowing is nothing here. You need a master who has been initiated into a lineage. He is the one who teaches you and looks after you, books are pointless here. There is no western such school or lineage that has survived. You are engaging forces to whom you are like an insect.
Alternatively just stick to your religion and follow it with pure intent, action and worship.

>>22074119
Unless you believe God himself initiated the first man (lol, lmao even) then all traditions were started thru auto-initiation. If you are cowardly, then yes get a guru. But books themselves can be initiatic. Even Abhinavagupta says as much.

>>22074119
>You need a master who has been initiated into a lineage.
That sounds gay ass fuck. Kill yourself pedo.

>>22074124
Good comment. Pedophilia and rape is quite common in the east. Hence the prevalence of sexual assault in poo in loo land. You may be able to find a legit guru there. There is, however, an equally long tradition of eastern gurus who take great pleasure in buttfucking western pseuds who want mysticism both metaphorically and literally.

>>22074071
What's the genuine Western esoteric tradition that is authentic?

>>22073535
Something like the corpus hermeticum, Arbatel, agrippa’s work, Paracelsus, boehme and trithemius would be good for western hermetic stuff but Here’s a random bunch of texts from a lot of different avenues since occultism is a large field. These aren’t written in order, just pick one up.
>Western
Sefer Yetzirah, commented by Aryeh Kaplan (particularly chapter six)
Book of Enoch
Thunder: The Perfect Mind all of Rudolph's Gnostic material
Chaldean Oracles of Zoroaster
The Black Brick (Complete Golden Dawn)
Liber ABA
Liber 65
Liber 7
Liber Stellae Rubeae
The Vision and the Voice
AHA (Crowley)
Agrippa's Second Book of Occult Philosophy
Complete Austin Osman Spare (including artwork)
The first Typhonian trilogy (MAYBE the second)
Additional MSS 36674 (Sloane)
Liber Asassiel (see above)
Sacrificial Universe (David Chaim Smith)
Kabbalistic Mirror of Genesis
Complete Magician's Tables
Strong's Concordance, Godwin's Qabbalah,Numberman.net, Bill H.'s tables, etc.

>Eastern (Near/Far)
Gathas/Yasna (or the Avesta, these are Zoroastrian scriptures. The material of most note is related to Zahak and/or various dragons)
A King's Book of Kings (see above)
“Yezidism: Its Background, Observances, and Texts”, I think some of the Yezid influence comes via the hymns in this book.
Anything that will give you a basic foundational understanding of Arabic astronomy/astrology/astrotheology, etc.
Kali Kaula by Jan Fries
Kaulajnananirnaya
Kiss of the Yogini
Triadic Heart of Shiva
Anandalahare
Hevajra Tantra
Shri Yantra and the Sidereal Astrology (Lokanath)
Tantraloka
Paratrisikavivirana

>Afro-Carib material:
African Divination Systems: Ways of Knowing
Way of the Orisa
Kindoki
Palo Mayombe: The Garden of Blood and Bones
Pomba Gria and the Quimbanda
Exu
At the Crossroads

>Sabbatic Background:
Xoanon and most of Three Hands.
All works of Carlo Ginzberg
All works of Emma Wilby
Various early witchcraft manuscripts


Also here’s a bigger list (with some crossover) it has literature I would even be against but it’s worthwhile for a larger sample.

The zohar
The bahir
Sefer HaTorah (Books of the Law), so-called “Five Books of Master Mosheh”
Sefer HaShmoth (Book of the Names) of Master Adam
Sifra Detzniyutha (Book of THAT Which is Concealed)
Idra Rabba Qadusha (Greater Holy Assembly)
Idra Zuta Qadusha (Lesser Holy Assembly)
Ma'aseh Merkabah (“Work of the Chariot”) material from the Nabiyim
Seferim HaChanokh (Books of Enoch ben Yared)
Shi'r Qoma (Measure of the Divine Body) from the Sefer HaGadol (Book of the Secrets of Raziel the Great)

Liber ABA – A. Crowley
The Middle Pillar – Regardie
The Tree of Life – Regardie
Garden of Pomegranates – Regardie
Three Books of Occult Philosophy – Henry Cornelius Agrippa
Collected works of Frater Achad
Liber 777

>>22074121
Nope not if you are going into fuck around with esoteric shit then you need a guru.
>If you are cowardly, then yes get a guru. But books themselves can be initiatic.
No they cant.
Unless you're a high spirit who knows it

>muh poojesh says so
lol come back once you actually do shit irl nerd

>>22074124
>chr*stcucks first thought is about gay sex
kek what a bitch

>>22074151
Taoist master chuang - michael r. Saso
the tibetan yogas of dream and sleep tenzin wangyal rinpoche


Kiss of the Yogini – David Gordon White
Sexual Magic – Paschal Beverly Randolph
Liber Agape & Liber AZOTh – Secret O.T.O. documents.
Liber 24 – Secret O.T.O. document.
The Sacred Magician - William Bloom
Gargantua & Pentagruel - Rabelais
Cults of Shadow - Grant, Kenneth
Veneficium - Shulke
The works of C.F. Russel
Angeletics - R. Capurro
The Holistic Inspiration of Physics - Val Dusek
Astrolabium Planum - Johannes Engel
Beyond Telepathy - Puharich
Dream Telepathy - Ullman & Kripper
Fundamentals of Esoteric Knowledge - Jean Dubuis
Arbatel of Magick
Collected works of Frater Achad
Nightside of Eden - Grant, Kenneth
Cult of Tara - Beyer
De Vita Tripliciti - Ficino
Arbatel de Magia Veretum
Raja Yoga - Swami Vivekananda
Shiva Samhita
Hathayoga Pradipika
Konx Om Pax
Spiritual Guide - de Molinos
Rituel et Dogma de la Haute Magie
Tannhauser
Sword of Song
Book of Abramelin
Daodejing
Secret Rituals of the O.T.O. – Francis King
The Voice in the Silence – Blavatsky
the Agamas
Kularnava Tantra, and the Tantraloka.

And many others since I didn’t even scratch the service of the different kinds of occultism.

Let me reiterate, I don’t actually support all of these texts nor do I think they’re all worthwhile. They’re just major in terms of basics for different reasons. I for example despise Blavatsky and find much of Crowley to be unoriginal

>>22074146
Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Judaism, Islam
>>22074151
Are you like the low-rent version of Ape of Thoth? Some good books on there, but an incoherent reading plan overall...

>>22074152
Who's your guru faggot?
>do shit irl nerd
Projection much? What have you done?
>high spirit who knows it
I know I am but what are you?

>>22074154
>>22074151
>>22074114
cool

>>22074160
>I know I am but what are you?
lol sure mate

>>22074119
> You need a master who has been initiated into a lineage.
This.

>auto-initiation
No such thing.

t. former Freemason

>>22074279
>freemason
Opinion discarded

>>22073535
>>22074151
How do I believe any of this? I want so so so so much for there to be something spiritual in this world, something to elevate my mundane existence beyond simply being a sentient flesh mannequin, an another organism in this godless universe. I would dedicate my life to the pursuit if only I could imagine even a speck of chance of becoming something more

>>22073892 and >>22074012 are both right.

Magic isnt anything, it is wonder/mystery/ignorance/pseudoscience/woowoo, but it can certainly BE anything under a certain light.
I think humans take nature for granted, and go out of their way to dodge the grandness of it, if it doesn’t suit them.
Humans are looking in all the wrong areas for the magic, such as entertainment.

>>22074316
You already are something more. Tou've just been brainwashed into thinking you're not brainwashed...

incomprehensible alien technology from the stars meets the criteria of magic.

so does modern 21st century technology that zoomers don’t bother to grasp.

but do they call it magic? no. because they’re retarded.

they think magic is le marvel superpowers shit.

so clearly you can’t define magic by definition or appearance or anything like that.

Alan Moore was right.

>>22074323
I'm aware of the countless shackles placed on me, be it my insecurities, the capitalist system, the influence technology, media and the medicine has on me, etc. and these are the few my feeble mind managed to grasp. All these distractions that somehow make people content with wasting their only chance. But is there even something worthwhile beyond the veil. Maybe we are just ants in the grand scheme of things. Or is the way found in the collective? I don't know. False information on top of false information made me callous. I want to be something more. I need to be something more.

>>22074393
Sort yourself out, bucko. Plenty of discussion and reading recs in this thread. Use yr brain. Think critically. Be discerning. Otherwise you are damned regardless. Anyway, it ain't my job to intellectually babysit childish incels on /lit/ so that's all you're getting out of me.

>>22073535
pretty sure Pynchon sussed the plot to NGE through seance

>>22074447
Haha, thanks anyway for indulging my babbling. Perhaps I am immature but at least I have not lost hope yet. Only way is to try harder

>>22074316
>How do I believe any of this?
I'll grant you some unearned wisdom.

Humans have the capacity to influence their reality through faith.

"Faith" in this context is the inverse of cause and effect. Or as the bible says, "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". By *knowing* something will happen, we can make it manifest in our reality, but that first requires unfettered belief that such a thing has already occurred.

The purpose of the occult is to orchestrate rituals which prepare the mind for this assumption of fate, the framework of which is used to ground an individual through the use of self-reinforcing memes. This acts as a safeguard of sorts, inoculating the mind from any potential shifts in perception.

if dubs magic is real

>>22074550
Thank you for your wisdom.
I would lie if I said I completely understood your words but learning is a process.

But somehow I feel familiarity with what you described. On occasions I, although on miniscule scale, felt like my expectations, or small wishes (never happened when I was aware I'm wishing for something to happen) were weirdly and coincidentally met in reality with what I desired. These were always attributed to my schizo brain making up stuff that isn't there.

I'm not sure if this is connected with what you talked about. Also I can't force myself to wholeheartedly trust stranger's words on 4channel, but I'll remember them, for what it's worth

>>22073535
Real occultism is hidden in plain sight

>>22073535
I've never seen convincing proof that "occultism" or "esoterica" actually lead the practitioner to magic powers or whatever, or convincing reasons to pursue them.
When pressed, every single occult practitioner will give you one of these lines eventually:
>actually the 'magic' is just a method of meditation or a way to change your mindset
>you're not advanced enough to know about such things or a hylic unable to grasp them or some variation thereof
>you have to be pure of spirit/undergo various long trials/etc to see the magic happening even though we can totally do it just trust us
If it's actually just a way to grasp very unintuitive philosophies or a way to restructure your mind or whatever then they should just fucking say that instead of couching it all in smoke, mirrors, and woo-woo. If the pure ideas and systems of thought underpinning le ebin initiatic secret esoterica accessible only to the chosen few really are that valuable, they will be able to stand on their own merits without the window dressing, and if they cannot then the whole thing isn't worth it anyway.

>>22074798
The problem is you're talking to plebs

You also have a mistaken idea of magic

Esoteric is hidden. So naturally those who have learned it will not give up secrets easily. In fact, it may not be possible to unveil the hidden without losing its quintessence...

Anyway, truth is non-discursive -- don't expect to find it in words...

>>22074811
>Esoteric is hidden. So naturally those who have learned it will not give up secrets easily. In fact, it may not be possible to unveil the hidden without losing its quintessence...
If there's nothing of objective value hidden behind the veil what's the point of trying to look behind it at all? I'm no atheist but this seems more like mental masturbation than anything useful to anybody.
You can have initiatic systems without having to play this dumb little game where you have to put on airs and act all mysterious for whatever you know to have any value, because there's a big difference between academically knowing something and living it.
Also, double-spacing your lines makes your posts an eyesore.

>>22074798
reality is a labyrinth and your disbelief shuts you off from its possibilities, and that? is not my problem

>>22074840
Is it "disbelief" to want to get to the heart of the matter, the meat, the actual arguments, the actual philosophy and thought right off the bat and think about it rather than play games with dudes in funny robes and goof around with candles in dark rooms and shit beforehand?
Every philosophy from Hegel's autism to Böhme to Advaita to Neoplatonism to Christianity has its thinking laid out in a corpus of writings for anyone to consider, without needing you to pay a fucking membership fee beforehand to view it, even if the actual reality of receiving Communion or reaching Moksha differs from academically contemplating it while reading a book. Meanwhile you esoteric fags are over there telling people you have something amazing and deep and totally worthwhile hidden under a sheet but that no one can look under the sheet unless they pay you a membership fee beforehand.

Magic isn’t supposed to look like magic…

Christ. Sometimes I think magic is just an outdated hocus pocus aesthetic/style to the average idiot who comes to threads like this.

Science is literally an evolution on past magical/arcane thinking.

If angels/demons/faeries existed, they’d just be extraterrestrials by today’s understanding.

>>22074828
>>22074870
I think you are confusing:

>masons
>theosophists
>gnostics

With all esotericists.

Esoteric writings are widely available everywhere just as much as are exoteric writings. As with any philosophy however, the true meat of the teaching is in the practice and not the theory.

It is not my intention to put on airs.

However it is worth considering the role of esotericism in a straussian sense (speaking in riddles to avoid persecution) wrt alchemists/hermeticists of old...

As mentioned, medicine and poison were once considered magic. Knowledge of how to kill someone with a plant, to name but one example, is quite dangerous. Would you blame someone in the past for hiding that from the masses?

>>22074151
How weird, you posted one of the reading list options and used the same trip code but didn’t add any silly parts.

>>22074156
I knew him back on irc, all of the guys back then took on frater names, the guy you replied to is actually someone using my copy paste and tripcode, so good on him.

>>22074316
I wouldn’t recommend esotericism without developing first a firm basic faith in god and relationship with God through normative religion, read your Bible, pray, fast, see where it takes you.

I would read this first, then Wilson's The Occult.

>>22074071
>Guenon was a complete pseud
You got this opinion from /lit/. Guénon was a mathematician who spoke 20 languages.
>Completely unfamiliar with his own western traditions
Read one of the books he wrote on Catholic symbolism or Danté before posting.

>>22074071
>Guenon was a complete pseud
You got this opinion from /lit/. Guénon was a mathematician who spoke 20 languages.
>Completely unfamiliar with his own western traditions
Read one of the books he wrote on Catholic symbolism or Dante before posting.

>>22074156
There's nothing esoteric about Catholicism and the others are not Western

>>22073535
>is it all just the delusions of schizophrenics and fantasy for spectacular stupid people?
yes

>>22073766
Never forget Yeats kicked this lard-ass down a flight of stairs once

>>22075826
>guenon was a genius
>maths and philosophy brooo
>even tho he invented no new theories of math
>even tho he is a footnote at best in philosophy departments
Keep sucking that dick. I'm sure you're guru will transmit a hot wet enlightenment to you and initiate your booty too.

>>22075123
qrd

>>22075957
the virgin wicked magician vs the chad irish brawler

>>22075924
It's only as exoteric as you make it. Read some Neoplatonists/Hermeticists from the traditions.

nobody posted the Schertel book. yet. sigh.

>>22075989
Shifting the goalposts. You don't even read. Stay mad.

>>22076072
>I am he as you are he as you are me
>And we are all together
-Guenon, The Eggman/Walrus, on metaphysics


So fucking deep, mannn

Pass the joint!!!

>>22076007
Nothing to do with Catholicism. Are you a bot or just retarded?

>>22075989
>muh philosophy departments
You just outed yourself as a fraud

>>22073535
These schools of thought are just attempts to transform one's consciousness in such an integrated way that what it omits manifests itself.
For in fact, you do not see the world for what it is but for what it appears to you, and what it appears to you is a reconstruction of it by your mind, which is mostly unconscious, into conscious experience. All your living, perceiving, and acting are unto this image, unto this simulated world within your mind, unto this mirror, and yet as you act it out unto this mirror, actual muscles in reality itself, this substance of utmost true being and the Absolute ever infinitely distant from you, behave in correspondence with your simulated will. One mustn't think anything that esotericism does is in violation with physics or that one can ever affect reality outside of your human musculature. It is rather a passive, reflective discipline, with emphasis on tapping into the unconscious truths through perception.
You have been trapped by upbringing, genes, and your own foolish commitments of belief. However, to think of occultism/esotericism as merely "weaponized ignorance" as >>22074012 puts it is a post-modern and nihilistic folly, which foolishly refuses the possibility of Truth in a Baudrillian fashion, such that as the French idiots think all is mere war for power with no truth. However this is false. You can in fact come out of the cave and witness truth.
All it is in fact is an attempt to transform one's perception such that one can attempt to transcend appearance, to unveil it, to peel it back, and to see the True behind it. And for one to do so, it is impossible to look outwards, as all strictly sensory perception, beyond being actually impossible, is wholly useless, as it is subject to error, context, and locality. Instead, one must look within for the directly accessible truth.

Oh also, Christcucks butchered all esotericism with their pseudery, so it's mostly dead. There's a reason all actual occultists are PhDs in classics and speak Greek. Occultism died with the neokikery of Christfags and for you to revive it at least for yourself you shouldn't look for unintelligent pseuds of the previous millenium, but rather for the "leaks" through Christian censorship. Look for especially Egyptian and Greek sources. Gnosticism, Neoplatonism, Hermeticism. All good forms of esotericism.

Also, some last words on magical ritual. These serve as a tool to help you on your journey. The same way the writer writes to understand his thoughts with the aid of a piece of paper, the magician performs ritual to undergo this process of pulling back the veil. They serve you to help you tap into the unconscious. And in a certain way, by freeing up your unconscious on the canvas of reality you free up your mind of it, and make of it the Pure.The Pure with which to judge this canvas and reintegrate it back into yourself.This is why rampant sexuality and bestial symbolism has been a large part of some rituals.Tis the Shadow.

>>22075957
A showdown between Yeats and Crowley consisting of them autistically shouting spells at each other while slowly advancing on one another and culminating with Crowley getting spartan kicked down a flight of stairs would have been one of the funniest things to see in that entire century, easily.

>>22076320
>Oh also, Christcucks butchered all esotericism with their pseudery, so it's mostly dead

>t, doesn't know about the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven
>t. doesn't know about the beatific vision of God

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keys_of_the_kingdom?wprov=sfti1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keys_of_Heaven?wprov=sfti1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_the_Keys?wprov=sfti1

>>22076351
Christianity is a form of shamanism which sets forth the privation of shamanism and battles it vehemently, calling all shamans "savages" or burning them at stake.

Esotericism is revelation as much as it is fiction. It is processual becoming. Christfags have butchered this revelation, calling it Satanic and sinful. But it isn't sinful and Satanic to acknowledge one's impurities and aiming to rectify and integrate the positive aspects within those impurities, as opposed to repressing them.

Christianity in essence is the laughably stupid and naïve anti-individualist repression of one's Shadow by the haywire paternal archetype.

>>22076396
also related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL-Dl3y6rDU

>>22076396
retard take. you've never even read a catechism admit it.

>>22076401
Actually I have read Christian takes on these topics. For instance, I know of Christian blogs where church members portray St. Augustine as "merely someone peddling the corrupt Satanic doctrines of Gnostics into Christianity".

All in all, Christianity is the substitute for one's mystical impulse, replacing it with nothing, and claiming all deviation from this privation is a form of heresy. It is one of the worst blights of this world.

>>22076413
>I have read Christian takes
>christian blogs
facepalm. i said CATECHISM. the teaching of the Magisterium, the living Tradition passed on from hierophantos to hierophantos going back to Peter (the Stone, the Foundation hint hint) himself and ultimately to Christ himself.

>>22076429
I'm sorry, but neokike superstitions are very low on my reading list. However, when I run out of comedy and intriguing pseudoscience to laugh at, I might read some of it and get back to you.

>>22076438
>I'm talking out of my ass basically
kek the pseud outed herself

>>22076474
*himself
I'm not a troon

>>22073535
>read books on occult and magic
>still can't cast basic lightning bolt, fireball or even an ice spell
This stuff sucks.

>>22076605
>fireball spell
buy a zippo

>>22076714
>zippo
>ball
What's the point of wielding lots of fire if it isn't ball shaped?

>>22077048
i dont mind since im not queer

>>22077101
There is nothing queer about handling flaming balls.

>>22073535
Jay Essex's Creation series.

>>22074012
You are wrong. You are close, but wrong. Occultism stands separate from the hidden teachings because occultists do not understand.

>>22077955
There is the vulgar occult (that which is hidden) and the true occult (that which cannot be spoken)

>>22077955
The occult literally means hidden you dolt.

>>22078311
First order
Second order
Third order

Learn to juggle planes

>muh one and only definitions
Go fuck yourself with a dictionary

>>22076320
>You have been trapped by upbringing, genes, and your own foolish commitments of belief.
Correct. Everyone (99%) is overexposed to information and thus blinded. People are looking for magic in all the wrong/mislead areas.

>However, to think of occultism/esotericism as merely "weaponized ignorance" as >>22074012 puts it is a post-modern and nihilistic folly, which foolishly refuses the possibility of Truth
>Truth
Oh cry me a river. Science/physics is truth. In theory at least. As soon as you tear down that occult veil the esotericism is lost. Initiation into the know (occult) is important—what is seen as esoteric to those outside of this hidden initiation.

Occult science, on the other hand … is a rather apt phrase, historically as well as presently. There will always be a frontier to understanding/physics that we can only barely poke/guess at.

Again, the modern sorcerer is just the mad scientist. No different from past “mad” esotericists and supposed “magicians” like Paracelsus, Archimedes, Roger Bacon, Galileo, or Isaac Newton. Brilliant people are nutty, and believed/did nutty things.

>>22078339
The occult. The esoteric. The arcane. All of these have the same root.
I guess you can throw eldritch in there too, but I associate that with Lovecraft cringe.

>>22078377
>science (a method for examining objects) is truth (an object)
Blatant category error. Kys

>>22078387
Science aims to be empirical, you donkey. Humans politicizing/weaponizing truth doesn’t change the objective makeup of the universe lying in wait.

>>22078387
“Hmm. This process constantly results in the same result.”

Are you fucking retarded?

>>22078385
Sense and reference my friend

No such thing as synonyms

Occult means hidden
Esoteric means inner circle
Arcane means secret
Mystery means silence
Eldritch means who the fuck knows

You also ignored my peircean point about multiple orders of definitions, such as lay and specialist usages

>>22078387
Science is a road/method to understanding things that are true. In that sense, it is true magic.

:^) Blow me.

>>22078395
>Verb is actually noun!
See how retarded that sounds?
>>22078400
>Implying science doesn't change
Are you trolling or genuinely historically illiterate / brain damaged?

>>22078401
All of that sounds pretty damn synonymous to me LOL.
I think you’re just an overly argumentative definition fag who can’t into nuance.

>>22078403
Nature loves to hide
-Heraclitus

>>22078412
What does a scientist say when they confront something new and or bewildering? “Hmm. That’s weird. I wonder how that works.”.

Existence is a magician.

>>22078409
>can't into nuance
>all these different words with completely separate etymologies mean the exact same thing!!!
Irony much?

>>22078401
All of that is interchangeable. You can use occult/arcane/esoteric in place of each other in X and Y sentences/phrases. All of these words have at one point or another been used to refer to, or describe similar things.

Maybe calm down.

>>22078424
I literally find it odd how you’re not spotting the similarities (elephant in the room).

This is about as retarded/semantic as “That’s not magic, it’s a miracle!”.

What are you even doing on this board?

>>22078421
Read a book, nigger (not heing racist, just calling you a bad word)

Not even the most autistic philosophers of science would agree with your idiocy

>>22078401
>hidden
>secret
>inner circle / you’re not cool enough
>mysterious things
>I don’t know aaaaa save me niggerman
Anon….
These are all incredibly alike

>>22078438
Magic and miracles are clearly differentiated in theological and magical literature

I am once again asking you to stop wanking off to your personal theories and read a book so you can actually learn something

Peace, niggers (negative affect)

>>22073535
neoplatonism
hermeticism
gnosticism
sufism
kabbalah
taoism
shinto
alchemy (namely paracelsian)
zen buddhism
crow way
hinduism

>>22078443
>Not even the most autistic philosophers of science would agree with your idiocy
Are you five
>>22078447
Nah he’s right. Moses was a wizard.
Take it from an actual rabbi: http://ejmmm2007.blogspot.com/2009/01/moses-magician.html
Calling the powers of your god “miracles not magic” was a pretentious way of claiming superiority

>>22078424
>>22078443
>>22078447
lol sperg somewhere else historylet

>>22073535
It's witchcraft

>>22078458
>literal who blog
Sure showed him
>>22078463
>being literate is a bad thing on /lit/ board apparently

Interesting thread till redditors took over. I always forget no one actually reads here.

>>22078080
what no meaning does to a mf

>>22078532
The ultimate meaning is silence (or maybe AUM)

>>22073535
Read The Kybalion by Three Initiates (William Walker Atkinson). Pic related. This, and Initiation into Hermetics by Franz Bardon are perfect for getting into legit, real occultism understanding/knowledge. Crowley is a sexual degenerate with some half truths spread around enough to warrant refferencing him. I'd recommend you still read his work to see for yourself, but the two books I mentioned I can not recommend enough, and adivse you to start there.

>>22078631
No comment on Kybalion. Ahistorical ofc but everyone knows that. Wrt Bardon tho: Have you done all the exercises? They all work? Sounded fanciful to me

>>22078659
>Have you done all the excersises?
No, but the first half prior to the excersises is worth it's weight in gold to supplement the Kybalion. The Kybalion is roughly 100 pages, and feels like 500. Franz Bardon's Initiation into Hermetics is roughly 300 but is pretty easy to follow, and read especially after the Kybalion.

The excersises I am in the process of doing. Having good, clear, mental focus is a boon regardless. Being able to visualize something in your mind is the first steps to becoming an actual mage. The principal of mentalism states all concious creation begins in the realm of the mind. This is absolute. In order to manifest your desired reality through concious actions you must first be able to visualize effectively. I think the excersises shouldn't be triviliazied, and completed, but truthfully I have not completed them all to the levels he goes into, but I have seen benefits for what I've done so far.

>>22078701
Interesting. Ya. Mixed thoughts on that sorta stuff. I got my start with similar ahistorical materials. Theosophy type books mosty myself. The practices do work even if the dogma is dumb.

Gotten to a point where am more of an armchair wizard than a sorcerer tho. Or maybe tis a sort of mystic enlightenment where I no longer wish to impose my will on world? Idk

>>22078712
For me it's more about carrying out The Great Work. Elevating the collective conciousness of the macrocosm (Humanity at large) to the point where we no longer tolerate or "need" the systems in place that currently enslave all of us, and pit us against one another. I try to live by example, and follow my own advice. Change starts with one's self. If people see what I am doing, and are inspired to do the same that's wonderful. If they seek answers to questions they have through me I will do all I can to help them find their answers. It's the extended "Golden Rule".

Treat others how you would wish to be treated, and do not tolerate treatment done to you that would not be done by those with a good heart. Actions are the only things that can change our reality. Act thoughtfully.

>>22078749
Keep up the great work, brother :^)


I consider that more in realm of divine magic / miraculous / mystagogy as opposed low sorcery / "black" magic... but signifiers are always slippery yano

>>22078447
Um, Catholic monks went out of their way to try and summon demons using the “authority of God”, to deflect accusations of sorcery. “N-no, it’s perfectly okay, since I’m using the power of God! It’s different! You can’t prosecute me!”.

But demonology is still demonology. Solomon was the world’s greatest wizard in myth because he was favoured by God. He has inspired countless texts on magic.

Hard defining magic doesn’t really work.

>>22078778
The Jewish God is/was a bigger dick than any demon/devil ever was, so this makes complete sense.

>>22078778
Definitions are always contextual. Part of difficulty of conversing on sites like these with multiple people and perspectives.

Angelology is considered magic by some too.

I would say it is less the tool of magic and how you use it which differentiates high and low magic

>>22078447
Mexican witchcraft incorporates Catholicism. So does Haitian voodoo. Dianic witchcraft. Enochian. Etc. You have absolutely no idea what you are saying.

>>22078804
Your point? Using the intellect to divide things up and create separate definitions is useful even if you may wish to contend it is not objectively true on an absolute level. Even the Buddha still used pronouns after discovering anatta.

>>22078795
The petitioning of angels/gods/divinities (henosis) was seen as legitimate (theurgic) magic. It was all quite Hermetic. It went hand-in-hand with goetia (petitioning of demons).

>>22078819
My point is what >>22078778 said
You can’t say shit like “that’s not magic” when magic is perception period

>>22078821
Why would they use separate terms (theurgy and goetia) if they were the same thing?


Ya. Don't mean to be pedantic. But feel like thou art missing trees for forest here. Most demonology and angelology is based on very similar astrological daimonology. However... etc etc etc

>>22078819
I think he’s saying the magic =/= miracles retard is retarded because he doesn’t see the irony of such a statement.

>>22078832
Because they are two sides of the same coin? That’s the point. One is unclean, the other isn’t.

>>22078832
Theurgy/Goetia was seen as the same field by many. Or at least there was significant overlap. It is basically just another form of channeling, mediumship, invoking, etc. Not unlike shamanism. Just more regal/ceremonial.

>>22078850
Even shamanism differentiate between good shamans and bad shamans cf. Eliade

>>22078832
…They are the same thing according to Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa. Although occult writers could never agree on anything.

If it didn’t incorporate outside intelligences (angels, demons, gods), it was natural magic (philosophy), and thus the domain of man’s intellectualism.

I’m also going to point out that Jorge word Goetia was the original Greek word for magic—and in ancient times magic was seen as a gift (miracle) of the gods; in particular Helios.

If you try to hard codify this stuff, you go mad. It defeats the purpose of conflicting historical perceptions.

>>22078834
I'm not saying "my magic is miracles, those other people's magic is sorcery". I'm saying magic can be used for both miracles and sorcery. Like a blade can be used to take life or to cut bread.

>>22078857
Okay, but they are both still shamans.

Is gunpowder suddenly not gunpowder if it’s used in an act of murder?

>>22078864
I thought goetia came from word for howling at funeral sites.

Agrippa says there are three types of magic. No? Natural, celestial, and divine. So clearly he thinks there is more than just one type.

>>22078872
Is a firework and an ar15 used for the same purpose?

Are you just afraid of moral realism or what?

>>22078866
Okay. I agree. But that’s not my point. My point is magic isn’t really anything beyond a way of looking at things. What is magic to one is not magic to another. You see this in history/culture, as well as modern day fantasy writers trying new/old things.

>>22078878
Agrippa is, like the rest, often a man of contradictory statements.

He also thought Theurgy was still mostly evil, since you could never tell of an angel was actually a demon or not.

>>22078883
Both fireworks and firearms would be seen as magic to the sufficiently out-of-the-loop.

Kind of like how medicine/drugs were once seen as magic… Does that change what they are…? Absolutely not. Only the perception is changed.

>>22078878
If by celestial you mean astrological, which has overlap with the gods, sure.

But that later became a domain of natural magic. People like Galileo refused to separate divination from sheer astronomy. He thought he could tell the future.

>>22078884
Ok. Maybe I am using words obtusely. I feel you are being obtuse however.

In any case, I do think the belief in possibility of communication w non-material intelligences does clearly differentiate magic from the materialist scientific worldview. And I think you can make a useful moral distinction with how that communication is used.

>>22078896
Mushrooms are still magic bro! Jk
>>22078901
Natural magic is science is philosophy. According to some.

>>22078904
Those entities would just be aliens by today’s understanding, using their own understanding (science) of things.

Faeries, demons and angels carry a lot of similarities with talk of aliens and UFOs. Crowley supposedly channeled a grey alien (if we’re to take and connect that artwork of his).

Everything meets in the end.

>>22078904
The non-material is a dishonest phrase. If something exists, it is present/material in some way.

Space is literally just an absence. Existence is a positively charged nothing-ness.

>>22078904
>>22078934
From higher dimensions things may as well be invisible.

A four dimensional “hand” poking their fingers in, is essentially several different objects moving on unison. Now imagine if those “fingers” took the form of humans. You would never be able to tell that they are all the same being/entity.

>>22078923
There could be aliens AND angels AND demons AND faeries AND they could all be separate entities. Admittedly, not the most parsimonious explanation but the opposite seems to presuppose just as much.

>>22078996
Alien in this case means anything not of this world.

>>22079123
Ah. But what of ultraterrestrial hypothesis? Also, what of speaking to spirits of plants and animals and elements? Might as well use term like "entity" as per the new agers

If it were real, it wouldn't be occult.

>>22079198
>real things can't be hidden
We are reaching nadirs of stupidity that shouldn't be possible

>>22078311
Step out from the meaning of words you think you know and verify them for yourself. You will find that occultists do not know because one cannot know anything without measuring themselves.

>>22073535
That's schizophrenia outside of art

Where are cool celestial creatures, cool wizards in the cloak who give the loner boy the fastest horse so he can fulfill his promise and terrible magical dragons? The universe is fucking gay and boring.

>>22073870
>devil worship
Wow, go back to >>>/retards/

>>22079884
Wait until you hear about psychedelics, Anon.

>>22073892
Great post but the MPH book is worse than useless. All of the information in it is wrong.

>>22073535
Try this general:
>>>/x/omg

>>22079904
Psychedlics are just satanic methods of living suicide

>>22074012
High iq post for real

>>22081138
Real recognizes real
>>22082257
Fake recognizes fake

>>22073535
>Real occultism
>Real occultism
>Real occultism
>Real occultism
>Real occultism

>>22073535
The only respectable occultists are the ones who drop any pretense that their larp is anything but a sex grift.

>>22082803
Eros is Magic, brah. Platonism gang!

>>22082792
stay blessed, playboys

t. 100% real wizard god demon monster

>>22082803
>The only respectable occultists are the ones who use it as a baseless platform to season discrimination with
FTFY

>>22082792
dropping that 100% real occultism shit. Pic related got me e-curb-stomped by the volunteer gestapo in the name of the sacred semites. Nothing hurts demons more than the truth.

>>22082792
with all these words in the JPG, you know it's real

>>22081305
>the symptoms of being poisoned are satan
ahah found the satnatanist

>>22082792
100% real and not schizo, just classic mode Semite =P

>>22082792
Need to mix that hard science in because pretty sure that's occult magic

>>22082792
The truth is whatever you can force or trick other people into believing

>>22079208
man, after writing hella shit, I've come to the conclusion that words and attempting to be productive is stupid if you're the type of nigga who uses icy-hot for lube in circle-jerks.

>homies crying about icy-hot handies in the circle-jerk

Welcome to clown town where the homies all got soft girl dicks and don't like a real fucking fire handy

>>22083400
I believe that too. Whatever people think it's "magic" is pretty much the kind of power politicians have to convince the normie cattle to do bullshit against their interests, based on what the normies are convinced they should do

bot went haywire with the pic relateds

>>22073535
it's part delusion
>>22073870

the occult is entirely deception. if you need proof, I can offer you courses in the A*A*.

it's not cheap. starts at twenty thousand US bucks a month.

>>22083461
>it's part delusion
So is the law of excluded middle.

>>22073535
>delusions of schizophrenics and fantasy for spectacular stupid people

that's people that believe the jew establishment. lmao. who believes you can change gender or in 6 gorrillion

>>22073996
who falls for the glow niggers on /k/ spamming muh russia shit

>>22079890
go back to israel devil worshipper

>>22083375
>>22083381
>>22083384
>>22083390
>>22083393
>>22083395
>>22083400
>>22083408
Tl;dr? Ain't nobody got time to read that shit

>>22083522
>he hates reading
>he goes to /lit/

lmao. post your hook nose

>>22083461
Truth is the purple pill like Zizek says, dawg

https://youtu.be/oMhd_SZtLLE

>>22083532
Memes all the way down. I got books for reading. You expect me to zoom in on my phone for some mucho texto? You expect me to bother to check this thread on my laptop? Why should I care? Elevator pitch

>>22083522
>>22083532
Gdi. I actually thought it could be interesting gnosis. It's just nazi retardation. Gb2/pol/grindr or 4chan.ru or whatever, bro...

>>22073535
>Please recommend worthy books on Occultism
Platonism through late NeoPlatonics then make your way through the hermetic/alchemical material.

Open question: What is the goal of occult practice? What can you gain by it?

>>22083639
Knowledge and possibly control over forces unseen by others

>>22083652
To what end? How does it benefit the practitioner?

>>22083698
Protection from unseen forces and alignment with higher forces (gods and/or God)

>>22083700
I'm not trying to be dismissive or rude, but why? When I look at my life, it is mostly governed by mundane things that can be easily understood. Seems like the best way to keep myself safe from unseen forces is to not bother with them in the first place. As for higher forces, isn't that the role of mainstream religion?

>>22083715
>When I look at my life, it is mostly governed by mundane things that can be easily understood.
kek sweet summer child

>>22083813
Yes anon. I lead a mundane existence and my quality of life such as it is depends on things like employers, clients, landlords, and stores. That's how I keep a roof over my head and my belly full. As far as I know these things are governed by rules set out by disciplines like biology and economics. Are you suggesting that understanding unseen forces will help me manipulate those things or be able to live without them?

>>22083863
>>22083715
None of what you mention is antagonistic to esotetica. The mundane laws and history(/ies) and sciences and religion have their uses. However, the phenomenological approach leads to a intuitive understanding that is transcendent rather than transcendental in a Kantian sense despite being wholly immanent. Ofc any esoteric philosophy will do that to ya if ya actually bend yr mind enough...

>>22083637
>(Neo)Platonism
This is as vague as "gnosticism". Platonism isn't a real category, name specific authors and works or fuck off.

>>22083895
>However, the phenomenological approach leads to a intuitive understanding that is transcendent
Transcendent how? What I was getting at is that to me it seems impossible to transcend the mundane physical world.

>>22083942
IF you define the all as mundane and physical then surely nothing can exist beyond it but do not their exist mysteries unsolved by science? Now and always...

>>22073535
Go to a Tibetan Buddhist temple

Bump, anyone got info, even if far fetched on CIA-occultism-Epstein, conspiracy theories etc.

bump

>>22084433
Watch Scary on Sixty-First

Magic (the occult) exists the same way darkness, cold, or just holes exist—it is an absence of understanding.

It isn’t anything. Literally.

But ignorance (a lack of understanding) is everything else out there, contrary to what you / is known.

>>22086564
Based. There is nothing more occult than the deep black of space.

What does a physicist say when they confront something new and/or bewildering?

“Hmm. That’s weird. I wonder how that works…”.

The universe is a magician. Magic is a magician.

(I’m samefagging btw)

>>22073535
Read The Book of Pleasure (Jerusalem Press is best edition) by Austin Osman Spare. Occultism stripped of all lies. The sacred sigilic hieroglyphic monagraphy...

You guys are the big dumb

>>22073535
"occultism" is schizophrenic delusion, but there are more substantial works produced within neoplatonism, some forms of gnosticism and ancient hermeticism. most subsequent movements are obsessed with symbols rather than what those symbols were created to represent.

>>22074119

>>22073535
>real occultism

Just nuke this board now. It’s gone full blown retard

>>22085553
Alright thanks.

unnecessary bump

shameless bump

>>22074043
what will happen

>>22073535
Occultism is just philosophy wrapped obfuscated with mysticism. Leaving aside the supernatural BS, it's literally making accurate beliefs about reality less efficiently. Fucking stupid.