/lit/ - Literature

Democracy: the god that failed
by Hans-Hermann Hoppe

thank me later

>>22081927
Why do you idiots need a book to explain why you hate the common people deciding their own fate?
Why are you such cucks for power centers?

You think a king is going to grant you debt forgiveness automatically just because he can subvert the merchant oligarch class? There’s no guarantee of that. Get your heads out of the gutter, you penis-simps

>>22081959
Certified schizo post

>>22081965
There’s nothing delusional there. Why the cuckoldry? Explain.

>>22081959
>the common people deciding their own fate?
This never happened even once

Do you really need a book to tell you that most ‘people’ are dumb animals? Verification not required

>>22082014
Irrelevant comment. This is what democracy offers. Why so afraid of it? The answer is you’ve been conditioned to believe you have it already and it’s not working. Your mind has been molded by the powers that be. Why invite authoritarianism back into control? You want China style governance back in the west?
It’s odd how we have the so-called “right” and “left” on both sides of this issue. Everyone’s still confused on the issue. Sort yourself out.

>>22082047
You need a book to explain that everyone* is perfectly capable of education, curing their “dumb”

*the mentally impaired might be barred from votes, no?

>>22082048
>Why so afraid of it?
I'm not afraid of it because it can't exist, I'm afraid of the mountains of skulls that people have left behind trying to create it.

>>22082116
>I’m not afraid of it
>I am afraid of it!!
It works fine wherever and whenever it’s been implemented. The mountain of bones the so-called civilized authoritarian systems leave happen regardless of our attempting to do without them or not. You fears of skulls are justified enough, but here they are, now, mountains of skulls.
Sniveling worms, don’t you see yet? These nightmares won’t end till you and the rest of us grow a fucking spine and stop them. The bones will continue to mount, increasing soon actually, till we do something about it.

>>22082116
Any proof that authoritarian regimes produce fewer skulls?

>>22082161
Authoritarian regimes have the possibility of human agency: they can produce skulls, or not produce them. To see an example of a willful reduction of the number of skulls look at the 19th century. When those regimes finally rotted and succumbed to mass politics in the 20th c., which was done in pursuit of democracy whether that's the particular variant of democracy pursued by the bourgeoisie or by the proletariat, hitherto inconceivable mountains of skulls were produced. If people aren't subjugated by a truly unaccountable leader (not a contingent demagogue) then they don't become free, they become enslaved to a gestalt lizard brain. This is why democracy has never existed.

>>22082200
>a willful reduction of the number of skulls look at the 19th century
There was an increase in deaths to match the increase in population.
You reading Pinker? No. It’s confused. Napoleonic wars, or fighting for more republicanism or socialism, it’s just the friction and the opposing camps. Wars, NATIONAL conflagrations exist BECAUSE nations exist. That’s what they exist for. They cannot stand other nations till they know they’re subjugated. It’s their nature.

How many wars have the Amish fought? What’s their body count?
The democracy in various communes in prosperous western nations can be the reality of Kurdish direct democratic regions. Their warn torn status is due to state-capitalism fighting over the region.

Pre-“civilization” civilization were small, sure, but managed themselves and their struggles far less bloodily. There are other ways to live. Your faith in authoritarianism is unjustified. It will lead to wars. So don’t plead bones at me anymore. You just want control.

>>22082014
English revolution of 1668 (approximately, I don't remember the year). People took some power from the king. Then they had a working parliament, later - better representation. They had a say in economic policies, which resulted in protection against foreign imports. How undemocratic.
Meanwhile, almost 2 centuries later, Austria and Eastern Europe still had feudal regimes where people were nothing but slave cattle.
And here you are, crying how you have no political power. Peasant mindset.

>>22082048
>Why invite authoritarianism back into control?

Implying authoritarianism ever left

>>22081959
Democracy is mob rule at best manufactured consent most commonly and falsified overtly at worst. It's just a way for the oligarchs to hide themselves and convince retarded proles that they **aRe tHE GoVErNmeNT**.

>>22082048
This is high quality bait

>>22082200
What the fuck are you talking about, 100,000,000 people died in the 20th century because of wars started by non-democratic regimes.

>>22081952
this is actually the worst book to argue against democracy. He's so retarded that he says we should have stricter immigration because we don't want to import undesirables and his big plan to stop immigration is: privatize everything and so immigrants can only come in if they are asked to by someone from inside the US, and they have to pay for a home or apartment. In other words, his plan is the most lax immigration plan ever. Retard, what's stopping a Jesuit church from mass importing immigrants and selling them housing for $1, which they're already doing?

But the whole book says that monarchy is favorable to democracy because if the king misbehaves, then people have historically deposed rapacious king, but what he doesn't mention is the total bloodshed and civil war and senseless deaths that take place historically during regime changes.

Not only that, but "monarchy" is "dictatorship" by any other name . He's supposed to be a rothbardian anarcho-capitalist and yet he's arguing for totalitarian dictatorship. how retarded can you get

>>22082508
Uhhhhh sweaty the usa caused all of those

Alain de Benoist's Problem with Democracy.

>>22082516
>Retard, what's stopping a Jesuit church from mass importing immigrants and selling them housing for $1, which they're already doing?
Legal responsibility for those immigrants crimes and debts for the rest of their lives. The reason immigration is bad is socialized losses incurred because of them. Privatize those losses. If they want to move here and starve and die so be it, not my problem.

>>22081927
It's a waste of time. Democracy is the ultimate system of human politics, with the highest outcomes in all fields - from military to science to economics.

You might as well ask for the best book against breathing oxygen.

>>22082454
>democracy is majority rule and I scared! Woo!
The words “manufactured consent” and falsified” aren’t making any sense here. What are you talking about? There are no oligarchs when there is no more capitalism, no money. I don’t advocate a world of direct democracy with Bitcoin millionaires. I doubt organized communities would pit up with any such creature and their security guards trying to lay claim to lands. That’s the battle the *majority* face. Be suckered by car salesmen or push them away. There’s no hiding single or a dozen bought votes in a crowded room.

>>22082292
It is still around, but some western countries have various republican oligarchies. A deceptive authoritarianism

>>22082456
Are you really this stupid?

>>22082516
would fuck her

>>22082573
>The words “manufactured consent” and falsified” aren’t making any sense here. What are you talking about?
Manufactured consent is where you use state education and state media to tell the people how to vote. You also create a narrow window of acceptable candidates or opinions through indoctrination and propaganda. It is what every western country has. Overtly falsified is just ballot stuffing, gerrymandering, legal fuckery or illegal fuckery in counting the votes. It makes no real difference. In practice we get a combination of these three.

>>22082516
>French Revolution bad
>btw if the king does wrong you can just do a French Revolution

>>22081959
You ever see a "mostly peaceful protest" where a mob of people start setting fires, cops in military garb are beating a few with truncheons, and all the while they keep chanting like a heard "THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE!"? Did you find that ironic or le powerful?

>>22082804
Ah, okay.
So it’s just a misunderstanding on “western democracy” which is obviously false all the way through. I have been advocating direct democracy though. Not even council rule (with only possible exceptions for small offices that might need a director and perhaps for only a limited duration) but a system that bypasses all those corruptible avenues. Pardon .

>>22082814
I really notice when the cops send their plainclothes guys in the protesters side to throw a little bottle at the cops. This is a signal and justification for beating the protesters up and arresting them for this First Amendment right they’re supposed to have. I find that ironic.

>>22083072
>Ah, okay.
>So it’s just a misunderstanding on “western democracy” which is obviously false all the way through. I have been advocating direct democracy though. Not even council rule (with only possible exceptions for small offices that might need a director and perhaps for only a limited duration) but a system that bypasses all those corruptible avenues. Pardon .
I mean if all you are arguing for is extremely localized democracy among your community or tribe that's cool. I just mean in terms of the state democracy is a farce.

>>22082516
Man you got filtered HARD

>>22083238
Yes. I am against the state entirely.

>>22081927
Read Ellul.

>>22082454
>Democracy is mob rule at best
At worst. Democracy elects representative professionals, outsourcing complex problem solving and administrative tasks to people who are approved by the masses, but no controlled. Democracy has its limits to prevent mob rule, like limited office terms and the use of force to upkeep the legitimate government even if the majority disapproves. The most prosperous countries in the world are all representative democracies or lucky few nations that can have shitty institutions, but benefit from abundant natural resources.

>>22081927
>>22083591
none of that really matters desu
in any political regime what really matters is a BILL OF RIGHTS
and the right for people to BEAR ARMS
this is the real red pill

>>22082508
>What the fuck are you talking about, 100,000,000 people died in the 20th century because of wars started by non-democratic regimes.
Democracy usually degenerates into rule by propaganda, and this is a sterling example. The Western democracies destabilized East Asia, exported political chaos into Russia, and turned the screws on Weimar Germany until reactionary strongmen were the only plausible path forwards; but the Western democracies don't have to face that because Hollywood can just plaster over reality with bullshit narratives about how the world went down in flames because Hitler hated Jews.

>>22081952
>Democracy: the god that failed
>by Hans-Hermann Hoppe
Yeah, classic.

>>22081927
needing someone else to tell you why normies shouldn't dictate your life confirms you are the normie I'm afraid

>>22083591
>representative democracy

What a fucking sham

>>22084135
everything is a sham
except bill of rights and weapons

>>22083072
>I won't answer the question and will just sperg about cops

>>22081959
to be fair most democracies are stronger power centers than your average monarchy

>>22083072
fair enough it just proves cops are sensitive gay little fucks. they need to know the world doesn't revolve around them.

>>22083597
>>22084141
Bill of rights is just a piece of paper. I can recognize the second bill of rights as the government is ignoring the first, all won’t matter till we take the weapons and organize against the thieves of our country and continent.
Direct democracy is the way to organize and enforce our bills of rights.

>>22084151
To be fair (and I know trolls like you never are) it is a complex answer.

>>22084185
See, the US has prospered not for having an oligarchy (which you call a democracy) but for its successful campaigns to steal and wheedle wealth out of the hands of smaller countries. It’s the guns and the lawyers that do this every time.

>>22081927
Recently I was listening to a political scientist explain how we are quite confused about what we mean by democracy, that is to say, democracy until like the 1848 uprisings were something of a smear word, like populist is nowadays, and the big meme word was republic, the difference being that democracies are direct and republics are representational. Even nowadays the powers that be hate the idea of direct democracy in the vein of ancient greece and call it populist, what the clergy of liberalism means by democracy is representational democracy ran by technocrats who make sure that the will of the people are only perceived as legitimate if it aligns with their interests and views.

>>22082161
all regimes are authoritarian

>>22085945
Well yes. The case being fought over here is to end regimes and to never replace them with another. One anon claims this will lead to bloodshed, the other side (which I am on) points out that we have continual bloodshed with regimes of all stripes now.

>>22085983
>The case being fought over here is to end regimes and to never replace them with another.
that will never happen though
and people dying is just a part of nature

>>22081959
I want rule by numerous strong men vying for power, in a world where treachery and court intrigue is common, every politician gambles with their life, and justice is handed out whimfully and brutally, instead of an omnipresent and systematic correctional police state like we have now.

>>22081927
>what are some books that will affirm my preconceived notions
De Maistre, Aristotle, Ikon Basilikon.
If you want something thought provoking, try Why Liberalism Failed. I think it ultimately doesn't succeed and the author's proposed solution is utopian in nature, but come to your own conclusion.

>>22086316
>I want rule by numerous strong men vying for power
Therefore you have the wealthy playing their political party players for your amusement. Don't like the game, make some money like Bezos did. This is the world we have now. "omnipresent and systematic correctional police state" is just one of the side quests.

>>22084141
The bill of rights is violated constantly.

>>22082516
>zoomer algortihmic zeitgeist image
didnt read lol

I mean if you cant even deduce why democracy is a failure by yourself then you yourself is proof of why democracy is a failure. Also I liked this book

>>22082282
I didn't know Daron Acemoglu went on /lit/

>>22082516
>if the king misbehaves, then people have historically deposed rapacious king
a big part of democracy is the peaceful transfer of power. under democracy if the leader misbehaves people can just not vote for them, accomplishing the same thing just with significantly less bloodshed. this guy really is a retard

>>22087571
I prefer deeper thinkers

>>22087973
>if the leader misbehaves people can just not vote for them
that never happens

>>22082248
Wars don't exist because of nations;
Nations exist because of wars.

>>22090054
>your father, supreme commander & absolute ruler of your family's dynastic dictatorship, will never take you for a private tour of your military's nuclear arsenal, just so that the required security screen can provide the two of you the privacy needed to have a one-on-one talk of substance on sensitive coming-of-age issues between parent & offspring

>>22083597
Let's not have the Satanic Masons write the next one.

>>22089971
well that's because people are retarded, but that problem also exists in monarchy. and it's a lot harder to organize people to put their lives on the line to overthrow a leader than to convince people to just not vote for them. things need to be really shit to cause a revolution whereas it just needs to be pretty shit to cause people to vote for someone else

>>22081927
Coriolanus, by Shakespeare.

>>22090150
>well that's because people are retarded, but that problem also exists in monarchy.
no it doesn’t though because the government doesn’t need to cater to the whims of retards (which is the best strategy in a democracy because retards always outnumber non-retards)
>it just needs to be pretty shit to cause people to vote for someone else
it still never happens though, and even if you do end up voting out a specific person the elite and their goals is not fundamentally changed by this (it’s not like that specific person would’ve been in charge forever anyway.) what usually happens is someone from the opposition will run on a platform promising change but then when they get elected nothing will get done

>>22084141
Bill of rights is a sham.
Only steel will not betray you.

>>22089316
>Le Bon
>leading French polymath in anthropology, psychology, sociology, medicine, invention, and physics.
>Bakunin
>retarded demonstrably wrong anarkiddie

>>22091490
>leading French statist

>Bakunin: demonstrably wrong
Except no, demonstrably right about everything.
But sorry, didn’t mean to trash the old social scientist so hard. He may have been right about things. Probably out of date on some, but I will hold off judgment. I’m reading more recent anthropology though.

>>22091533
>demonstrably right
OH NO NO NO NO

>>22082544
When will you learn? It's not just welfare. Arizona is now literally Mexico. Everyone is mexican. everyone speaks spanish. They sell mexican clothes. they sell mexican food. Go teach them about the non-aggression principle. Your country is being taken over. They're not breaking any laws. They're not asking you for anything. When will you learn?

>>22082807
this guy gets it

>>22089971
what? it happened 3 years ago. You can't just say words

>>22091616
>what? it happened 3 years ago. You can't just say words
"Western Democracy" is oligarchy. There is nothing democratic about it. Elections bring results only the rich want.