/lit/ - Literature

At least his philosophy of mind is much better than the current bugmen. His main problem was his devotion to Anglo liberalism.

>>22076297
most people who accept mathematical axioms at face value often do not attempt to grasp anything that exists independent of them. the universe isn't always "2+2=4" many things that make sense to God don't always make sense to humans, but human inventions or discoveries make sense to God as we exist because of him

>>22076313
Like what

>How is he so competent at math
He really isn't.

t. mathfag

>>22076357

Oh, do tell.

t. Only educated in math up till 12th grade.

>>22076297
Don't you think his criticism of women being baby machines is valid?

>>22076365
Anon is being a pseud.

>man be smart
>but he no christian
>my head hurts!

>>22076312
I agree. He was all Hitler bad and British good (and Jews too).

This essay isn’t much better either.

>>22076313
Not really a Catholic thought

>>22076357
Big (if true).

Explain, I’m an amateur my math education was only applied for physics and science majors

>>22076313
Russell didn't accept mathematical axioms at face value.

>>22076533
It’s more like this

>I was 6 and decided god isn’t real
>Christ wasn’t either
>but he was bad becuase he wanted figs
>I think if he was good he wouldn’t have been ok without the figs
>also I will ungenerously state arguments I think are bad and then dismiss them
>I won’t mention the strong ones

>>22076554
every christian apologetic just ignores the real issues that cause people like Russell to deconvert. it doesn't matter how many strong arguments and great religious insight you have if people today will read all the mundane shit and realize that it is ridiculous.

>>22076563
>every christian apologetic just ignores the real issues that cause people like Russell to deconvert.
You mean his wish to be a cuck?
It's no wonder he's a pacifist. The man already gave up the natural desire of assuring his children are really his.
So much for this "philosopher".

>>22076382
>Don't you think his criticism of women being baby machines is valid?
I want someone to engage with this.

>>22076365
>>22076550
What do you even need explained? He was a logician, not a mathematician.

>>22076563
Idk man I have the opposite view. I think the average person is a moron religious or not and they have very poor reasons for believing whatever they Believe.
Most people today don’t believe anything at all. They just run around like little worker ants. In fact that’s one thing I agree with Russell about in his essay .
He states in the Middle Ages people cared very deeply about what they believed and worried over every aspect of it.

I don’t think it’s ridiculous or as ridiculous as anything else

the weird thing is he says he's not a christian but seemed to seethe about nietzche's anti-christianity. the guy seems confused and a bit mid, to be frank.

>>22076647
Again, as an Anglo liberal, he really does inherit some Protestant attitudes without admitting to it. Nietzsche of course questions this.

>>22076682
how does he not admit it? he isn't anti-jesus. his tolstoy pacifism thing literally comes from jesus. that's why he complains about christians not following jesus's pacifistic sayings.

>>22076643
>logician
Do you even know what that means and no he was a mathematician.

>>22076689
Again, the guy is a cuck literally and metaphorically. How can I live my life like him?

>>22076700
Do you?

>>22076703
In this context? No, which is why I'm asking you.

>>22076297
his arguments against religion are bad for the same reason that faithful peoples arguments for their religion are bad: they want their belief to be true
it isn't like math where you can find an objective answer and prove it

>>22076705
It means exactly what it says on the tin. Russell was no more than a mathematician than Kripke was a linguist.

>>22076711
Every mathematician is a logician. Logic is at the base of math.

>>22076719

>>22076728
Don't try to run now. You are saying that because Russel studied mathematical logic he was therefore not a mathematician. This is like saying "You are not a farmer if you plant the seeds. You are only a farmer if you harvest the crops."

>>22076709
why do you think he wants them to be true?

>>22076643
He focused on mathematical philosophy aka attempting to show math was an extension of logic

>>22076747
Run from what? Another /lit/-"philosopher" peddling grug-tier sophistry and his NPC-tier grasp of subject area entirely alien to him?
>You are saying that because Russel studied mathematical logic he was therefore not a mathematician.
No, that's what you are saying.

>>22076689
He mocked Tolstoy quite viciously and was doing this to shit on Wittgenstein as well who was extremely Christian though it’s not clear at all what kind.

Dude was an ugly evil little man desu. Lawrence was correct about him. I like history of western philosophy though. Despite its snark and flaws.

>>22076345
They attempt to square all of existence in terms of sense data unaware that some things exist outside of basic logic

>>22076546
That’s not the point

>>22076551
Sorry I probably should’ve referenced Carnap instead

>>22076753
so he can create a god of his own image
religious people do this too sometimes, they're just a little bit more dishonest about it.

>>22076767
You literally said
>What do you even need explained? He was a logician, not a mathematician.
Mr Mathfag

>>22076779
Yes.

>>22076719
I Hope you understand this wasn’t true for 2000 years until Leibniz and Frege and Russell showed it could be logical

>>22076777
that sounds a bit ridiculous.

>>22076790
it's common for intellectuals
everyone has a desire for the transcendental, the academic makes it themself, the more simple make it.... well, something else (which is probably better)

>>22076773
Not sure that Russell ever got that far and Wittgenstein who did get that far more or less said that it was true that things exist outside

>>22076777
Mr psychologist over here is dabbing on Strawmen

What sort of arguments does he make, and why do you find them weak?

Apologetics of any kind are usually tedious, but I am not familiar with this one.

>>22076643
If single handedly refute set theory (renamed to naive set theory to save face) as a foundation of mathematics, you're a mathematician. Simple as.

>>22076816
If you*

>>22076802
look inside yourself and you know it to be true

>>22076812
>What sort of arguments does he make
Christianism makes women have babies until dying from exhaustion.

>>22076816
>another clueless reddit faggot chimes in with his capeshit quip about the epic teapot man
Russell didn't "singlehandedly refute" anything, he came up with a sufficient counterexample to one of the work-in-progress attempts at axiomatizing intuitionistic notions of sets. He wasn't the first to do it either, but didn't know that, because all the cool logisticans of the time lived in the land of crispy lagers and fermented cabbage, while he was moderating his agnostic-and-totally-not-atheist subreddit on rainy little bog island full of inbreds. Fucking kill yourself, turbopseud.

>>22076869
>he came up with a sufficient counterexample to one of the work-in-progress attempts at axiomatizing intuitionistic notions of sets.
Sounds like he refuted what is now called naive set theory. Congrats to the other mathematicians who refuted it as well.

>>22076910
>Sounds like he refuted what is now called naive set theory.
It sounds like that to you, because you're a 90 IQ reddit mongrel.

>>22076938
Cool to know. Anyway, have any names of the people who found counterexamples (not refutations by the way) of naive set theory before Betrand Russell did?

>>22076957
>counterexamples (not refutations by the way)
I can't tell if this is elaborate trolling or you're genuine oligophrenic reddit mong with a major case of Dunning-Kruger about his extremely shallow and handwavy grasp of mathematical logic.

Cantor published on paradoxical inconsistency in intuitionistic approaches to his own theory years before Russell. Zermelo was the first one to put out full formal counterargument against Frege's axiomatization attempt. He was also incidentally to introduce his own mended axiomatics, which togeother with minor alterations form the basis of modern set theory. Like with most things anglo, Russell did little more than popularize his own quip.

>>22076297
>Bertrand Russell
>"How is he so competent at math and yet so god damn retarded at everything else."

Unfathomably Based

>>22076772
Wittgenstein carried around Tolstoy's The Gospel in Brief during WWI.

>>22077014
Couldn't find an earlier counterexample when I made a quick search for it and knew I could get you to give me the info I wanted by posing it as a challenge. Thanks for sharing by the way.

>>22076772
>He mocked Tolstoy quite viciously
Tolstoy was a hypocrite and a charlatan. He deserved mockery.

I unironically can't think of anything more cancerous than early 20th century whiggish anglo liberalism. Like even if you are a secular lib holy shit are these people embarrassing.

>>22077181
Russell is like the pre-tranny 2000s fedora-tipping Reddit distilled into one person. Intelligent, nihilistic, with a wicked sense of humor. An expert on everything, a cornucopia of epic one-liners, edgy opinions and awesome puns.

because math is absolutely soulless, there is perhaps no activity more removed and abstracted from humanity than studying or doing math. before the industrial revolution, before the agricultural revolution, counting came along and fucked everything up.

Math and logic are just another one of the reflections inside of Plato's Cave.

>>22077014
Can confirm Russel is a joke. Wrote giant books on some pointless set theory to avoid the paradox but it still showed up. Though it was a laudable effort and prompted further work it type theory.

>>22077044
You're braindead. It's the first thing on the Wikipedia page of Russel's Paradox. For a website that prides itself on being literate this is just next level idiocy.

>>22076382
We would need either artificial uteruses to exempt females from being effectively incapacitated for 9 months growing a fetus inside them, or a special caste of female slaves to serve solely as surrogate incubators, so that other females would not have to.

In the first case scenario, we'd get +50% to total brain computational power for the sake of neural network unsupervised learning.
In the second, that would get approximately +25-40%, which is not bad, too.

>>22076647
Iirc, his father was a literal cuck. You can imagine why he would be against master morality.

>>22077211
I’m sure plenty of redditors at the time were platonist and panpsychists. While I think it might be unfair to judge Russell based on these people, I do think he would be a little ashamed if he saw the kind of people his pop philosophy would inspire decades after his death.

>>22077977
>While I think it might be unfair to judge Russell based on these people
Why? He didn't just inspire them, he pretty much created the entire episteme which produces these abominations. From neoliberalism to "agnostic" fedoratism to anti-imperialism with special pleading for US to reducing philosophy to symbolic manpulation games. Nigga deserves to boil in a giant teapot for the rest of eternity.

Russell...was based? wtf

>>22078025
>From neoliberalism
I’m sure that as a socialist, he would have supported the economic program of Reagan and Thatcher.
>to "agnostic" fedoratism
Sure, he was a little smug in his tone, but his metaphysical position was quite different from the one that these people have.
>to anti-imperialism with special pleading for US
Like that time he actively opposed the war in Vietnam, right?
>to reducing philosophy to symbolic manpulation games.
It’s kind of rich to blame Russell for this and not Frege, especially when plenty of Russell’s work can’t be reduced to that.

>>22078273
>I’m sure that as a socialist
I'm sure you think Chomsky is heckin ebin anarchist too, reddit. Now fuck off back to playing shapes and colors.

>>22078302
I wouldn’t call him a neoliberal at the very least.

>>22077389

>>22078273
>Like that time he actively opposed the war in Vietnam, right?
He was just overcompensating for wanting to preemptively nuking the USSR

>>22076313
>any things that make sense to God
you don't know that

>>22078492
The world would have been a better place if that had happened to be fair.

>>22076554
Speaking of figs, why did Jesus kill the tree? It was winter. There are no figs in winter. He knew this, but killed the tree anyway. How is this not evil? Explain! You explain now!

>>22076297
This book almost cured me of my atheism.

At one point he starts talking about how children should be encouraged to play sex games with each other... clearly a massive nonce

>>22076297
>Anglo nonce
>atheist
Wow how did i not see that coming.

>>22078498
neither do you. no one really does except what he has revealed to us

>>22076812
Frankly you’ve heard most of them from Dawkins who seems to have based his career off the first half.

>argument of first mover is bad
>argument from design
>argument from morality
>argument from natural law

Aka be shits on Aristotle, Plato, Newton, Kant about a paragraph each.

But he doesn’t realty engage the arguments in the essay, he just sort of snarks them down.

Then he says Jesus was a dick actually and that’s the essay.

>>22076869
Kek desu

>>22077042
Yes and if you read Tolstoys gospel in brief you’ll realize Wittgenstein took it extremely serious and was probably the second most hardcore Christian next to St Francis

>>22078371
Neo liberalism is liberalism but I think it’s got a post modernism to it Russell woudlnt have liked

>>22078596
In the Old Testament Canaan was given to the Israelites and they were told it was a land of milk and honey (this is during the desert after Egypt). They send some scouts in and he comes back with figs as proof it was a fertile and resource rich place. Then the fig tree becomes symbolic of the Jews in Israel and it’s referenced such in most of the Old Testament books from Deuteronomy to Jeremiah when Babylon conquers them .

Jesus casts smite on the fig tree and he is cursing Israel because as chosen people who accepted the covenant and Canaan they had to be faithful and produce good deeds but as we know they were a wicked generation. In fact the preceding passage In mark he predicts of his betrayal and death and I always held this destruction of the fig tree was the end of the covenant with Israel and they would be cursed as they were wicked and bore no fruit (aka no good in the world).

I’m not trained in correct doctrine though I’m not sure what the Catholic / orthodox view is. I know the Lutheran church as quietly set this story aside from frequent discussion

>>22076773
>They attempt to square all of existence in terms of sense data unaware that some things exist outside of basic logic

> The semitic god of the old testament is real, dude, TRUST ME
can't imagine why

>>22076297
And the essay that is called: "Why I should care of this?" is not published?

>>22076775
Carnap was a pluralist about mathematical systems buddy he thought axioms were components of linguistic frameworks

>>22077014
Intuitionistic set theory wasn't developed until well into the 20th century moron, well after Cantor and Frege. Intuitionistic logic was developed as a RESPONSE to the failure of naive set theory. GO read a book before posting plese

What is the point of axioms? How can you 'prove' 1+1=2 on paper by autistically laying it out in max verbosity, doesn't that still require a presupposition of the unuversality of the math used? I'm not arguing 1+1≠2 but I'm just confused by axioms.

>>22076546
Divine Simplicity is a Western Chruch innovation.
>>22076345
Like the Trinity. It can't be analogised without being a heresy (Modalism, Nestorianism, Arianism, etc.) because it only exists in the form of a comlrehnsion based on faith. You can't use reason to understand it, you must have faith it is so.
>The Trinity is a mystery which cannot be comprehended by human reason but is understood only through faith and is best confessed in the words of the Athanasian Creed, which states that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in unity, neither confusing the Persons nor dividing the substance, that we are compelled by the Christian truth to confess that each distinct Person is God and Lord, and that the deity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, coequal in majesty.

>>22076563
What is it besides
>god's a meanie!
>muh specific contested theory treated as universal truth
>>22076645
This is very true. You could ask a wide range of average joes with conflicting views 'why?' and they wouldn't be able to properly explain it. Try asking someone why genocide is bad for example. Even if I agree it's bad, most people don't have greater reason for holding that notion, they just get upset you even question it in the first place. Most probably won't even reach the 'because murder is bad' stage.
Normies function on unconditional belief. Creationism then or Darwinism today, most people just have faith in some greater authority that holds that view as correct whether it's God, Scientists, etc.

>>22076297
>How is he so competent at math and yet so god damn retarded at everything else.
>I could go through this piece by piece but it’s not even worth it. It’s just pathetic

I could refute your argument piece by piece, but it's not even worth it. You're just pathetic.

>>22081772
the point of using an axiomatic system is to prove theorems

>>22081931
I'm still nowhere closer than I was before.

>>22081944
you asked the point of using axiomatic systems. i told you the point is theorem-proving. you should say thanks instead

>>22081957
That doesn't explain anything. I ask in the first post what does it nean by 'proving '

>>22076297
0/10

Why do you turkeys feed the trolls everything you have?

>>22081960
no you didn.t. but in mathematical logic `proof' will be given a precise definition defined as a relation that holds between sets of sentences relative to a set of rules of inference.

>>22081970
>no you didn't
Bruh
>How can you 'prove' 1+1=2 on paper by autistically laying it out in max verbosity, doesn't that still require a presupposition of the unuversality of the math used?

>>22081772
One point is that you can find a small set of axioms that describe your mathematical structure, another is for instance that several mathematical structure might share some axioms and you can prove things for all of them at once.
On the other hand, formally mathematical structures are based on their axioms but historically the practical math existed way before the modern axioms did, they were chosen to reflect pre-existing mathematical intuitions.

>>22081990
oh i see the problem, you have terrible reading comprehension and struggle expressing yourself in language... sorry about that best of luck with your mental handicap.

>>22076297
Russell was a terribly shallow thinker. A retard, essentially.

Artificial Academy 2 General /aa2g/ #1280
Sleeping Edition

Welcome, this general is for the discussion of ILLUSION's Artificial Academy 2.

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>HELP! Required Windows 11 update broke things!
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Previous Thread:
>>429688447

>>22080800
What
>>22081898
It’s not that long of an essay. Go read it. He lays out some arguments for god and then more or less says they are silly

>>22076297
STEMfags are myopic.

>>22082218
I will follow your tips, you are sure an expert.

Russell

>>22076297
>I could go through this piece by piece but it’s not even worth it.
Cope harder retard

>>22076869
Cringe.

>>22076728
Mathematics is literally logic, how is this not true?

>>22083112
Prove 2+2=4 using logic,
We will wait

>>22083102
I doubt you’ve read it

>>22083127
if i have 2 cookies and bake 2 more cookies then i have 4 cookies

>>22083140
You know you’re a retard?

>>22083168
refute it though

>>22076297
Can the christfag election tourists please leave already?

>>22077014
>>22081612
this, the faggot was mad projecting

>>22082164
>ask 'how can you prove'
>answer given is 'by proving'
I'n not the illiterate one.

>>22076297
Chomsky is on par, if not a little worse, except his field was linguistics and everything else he says is inane

>>22077777
Quints confirmed.

>>22083184
You didn't use formal logic.

>>22076297
>I could go through this piece by piece but it’s not even worth it.
please, enlighten us

>>22076297
He was literally a cuck.

>>22083140
Russell wanted to show (or rather he wanted to finish what Frege started) that math had a logical foundation and that it was analytic and therefore true absolutely and necessarily.

Your example is counting things in the material world but we all know material world is full of error. You could be mistaken and there is a 5th Apple or whatever that you alwyas fail to see.

Further More Russell’s method might seem silly since 2+2 is 4 and we all know it. But he showed that it can be derived from a very small set of axioms logically a priori AND it showed that many of the domains of math also could be deduced from logic if one had the time and energy.

Meaning that 2+2 is true a priori and so are mcub more complex mathematical problems you would never sit and count out.
For this Russell earns his reputation. It was however the rest of his work that ruined it.

>>22083568
Have you read the essay? He doesn’t really lay out the arguments he briefly summarizes the basics and then goes ‘but it’s not convincing’.

There isn’t much to say. Why doesn’t he show the flaw in Leibniz’s ontological proof?

We all know why he doesn’t do this. I’m not going to go through the 15 pages and type out his snark, because that’s all that is.

>>22083606
christianity is literal cuckoldry as a lifestyle

I love Russell

>>22083636
deboonked by Graham Oppy

>>22076297
He wanted to fuck and that's why he had to be an atheist--at least in his era.

>>22076591
He literally was quoted as saying he wanted to fuck and so morality had to go overboard so he could fuck who he wanted without grief. Google it.

>>22076591
Women are so inferior your strawman isn't such a crazy position. Consudering the current tine it's an objectively better scenario for everyone including the women. Women's wills being weaker means they adjust to their scenario, men are the actual willful rebels, women just follow emulate them. Veing a baby machine guarabtees security while feminists go and work for their pride if working as a woman and no greater goal, fail to be successful parents and die alone, often heirless.

How can he be so smart and not worship a jewish sand god?

>>22084989
He worships Jewish Antichrist society though, even with your argument the older jewish paradigm is still better.

>>22076297
In fairness you're probably a neo-nazi turned catholic who hates the jews whilst worshipping and following jewish culture (i.e. prophet of the jews, god of jews, fairytales from judaism, et al.), so its not a wonder you can't understand intelligent peoples reflections on this - the mountain of dissonance involved for you, etc.

why, your first reaction to reading this will be that i'm some pejorative political buzzword.

also,
>How is he so competent at math
>>22076357
>He really isn't.

hilarious. Servant caste human calculators whose brains have been algebraded consider numbers to be the criterion, then quibble about that.

I'll boil down my thoughts on this thread in a way you can understand,

ready?

2.

>>22076689
This is a good pointphrased much beter than I did just now. Consider that to a moral or virtuous or intelligent person that Christianity is solipsistic nihilism which encourages nothing good and enables, demonstrably, very bad people to shrug away their crimes by saying "i repent in jesus name," and that this convinces the zealot whose logic says "no" but whose dogma is forced to consider the lying laughing criminal as a brother and let him go off and do bad again. Just for one example.

>that's why he complains about christians not following jesus's pacifistic sayings.
albeit not in my example

>>22076719
Tell this to contemporary and past financial capitalism.

>>22083656
best post in thread

>>22083694
2nd best post in thread

>>22084989
revised. 1st best post in thread

I have no reason to believe Jewish mythology is the origin of the universe. I don't care about whatever 4D sophistry you attempt to btfo the gaytheists with.

>>22085098
so you're agnostic towards the claims of Jewish mythology, secretly giving them plausible credence? i dont think that's true.

Contrarily, if they don't believe in the claims of Jewish mythology they are declared anti-all-theology, which is itself a Jewish wordplay.

Christians.

>>22077211
>he had an almost unique talent for taking any aspect of this knowledge and whittling it down to the simplest
and wrongest
>possible explanation.

>>22085143
>and wrongest
You expect anybody to believe that gas-lighting neo-nazi christians on 4chan have a secret wisdom about why their jewish god is actually all proper and logical, and that nobody else nor they themselves have ever managed to articulate this?

When intelligent people put the deranged and nonsense claims of your religion together and you behold the cheeseboard of absurdism, that's what 'you' claim to believe in if you had a functional brain to have actually "read your own books," you dumb bullet shield.

>>22085088
>who hates the jews whilst worshipping and following jewish culture (i.e. prophet of the jews, god of jews, fairytales from judaism, et al.
You're describing all Christians before evangelicals.
>but the apost-
Specially the apostles.

>>22085198
>You're describing all Christians before evangelicals.
except jewish ones, who would be atheists if they'd understood jeebs.

>>22076297
>/lit/ - Literature

>>22081772
>doesn't that still require a presupposition of the universality of the math used
All mathematical proofs are conditional. You don't prove that 1+1=2, you prove that if so and so then 1+1=2. Mathematicians are more concerned with necessary conclusions, and not with "reality".

>>22085226
>muh complex nombars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCtRPtjGGXI

>>22083656
I think you’re a retard

>>22083824
He is Reddit after all

>>22085088
Christianity is Greek and the essay largely deals with Greek and Newtonian arguments for god, clearly you didn’t read the gospel in a way that you understood it and you clearly didn’t read the essay in question

>>22085358
>Christianity is Greek
>'you' didn't understand
LARPing as the Imperial Basilea Rhomaion are we today, you catholc heresiarch...

>Greek
Prima Causas has never been connected to Yahwehism, so if your reason for being a bent cunt is Prima Causas then you've got no reason to add Jewish fables into the mix. What has Prima Causas got to say about Jewish fables?

>so god damn retarded at everything
Sounds like OP

>>22076297
>How is he so competent at math
In the middle ages, nobles LARPed as knights and mighty warriors yet never saw combat close up, they hid in the distance and were too scared to enter the battlefield. In Russel's time, the cool guy meme was to be an intellectual, and given his insane privilege and position in the world there is a very high chance that he just took credit for the mathematical work of others, or just outright purchased it. Again, this was frequently done by people actually in his own family line, but with warrior titles and clout. Kind of like how Trump had other people write his business books.

His book is an opinion piece so he can't be wrong. Its titled "Why I am not a Christian" not, "why Christianity is factually wrong". Assuming he were actually a super intellectual, that doesn't prevent him from writing his feelings on a matter, or from believing things that cannot be proved.
Anyhow, your first statement is explained away by taking into consideration the huge underlying assumptions about Russel that you are making.

>>22085381
Cringe retard polemic l, not even russell pretended to be this retarded

>>22085445
that's fine, you can cringe all you want on the way to the machine that rips out your bowels when you fail the polygraph test for your fucking lies.

>>22085421
>Assuming he were actually a super intellectual, that doesn't prevent him from writing his feelings on a matter, or from believing things that cannot be proved.
Are you admitting that yahweh is an unfalsifiable claim?

>>22085476

Reddit incarnate

>>22085483
I don’t think you know what you’re talking about

>>22085496
I wasn't aware that Reddit consisted of you avoiding the facts and claiming the prosecution is just 'pretending' or is 'retarded' for having proven you to be completely in the wrong.

So what's the reason you've got such dissonance over all of this? Are you a repressed homosexual or a drug addict who is using the jewish religion as a coping mechanism to avoid rehab?

>>22085500
I'm sure you would know, of course. Since you're superior to "all nobles in history" who were just 'LARPing', and that Russel just paid some guy to come up with some numbers to lend credibility to his random words which he spoke and wrote.

>>22085088
You have to go back.

>>22085523
Wrong (you) I’m nta

>>22085514

Need to lurk more. You’re understanding of Christianity is American and post 1950s

>>22076297
Being competent at math is easy. It just requires a lot of study. It's much, much harder to grasp math than it is to be competent or "do" math.

>>22085088
Holy Reddit

>>22085483
I'm not a Christian so I don't care, and yes.

>>22085523
You're replying to a different anon, and I don't claim to be superior to all nobles in history. Its a known phenomenon, and I referenced it to cast I guess you could say "Doubt" on OP's original statement, by showing that it could be based on false assumptions.
My personal opinion, yes Russel is a fraud, no I can't prove it, no my personal opinion doesn't have any value to you or randos, you can think for yourself. Finally yes, I am ESL since I expect to get bullied for that next.

>>22076297
>How is he so competent at math
HIs only claim to fame got absolutely BTFO by Godel, he is only popularized because he is an anglo, and even the most mediocre anglo is marketted non-stop, like Shakespeare.

>>22076297
Remember the two Ms: Mill and Malthus. The quintessentially British soul rests upon the utility and quantifiability of all empirically perceivable phenomena. Anything else appears dubious and suspect. It's why our writers, poets and philosophers are grey, drab lifeless dungheaps of balance sheets and truth tables; our composers, full of nothing but pomp and circumstance and mawkish longing for dead idylls; and do we even have artists? I reckon not. Russell is so hated here, rightly so, because he is the most egregious example of the dearth of spirit I've described above.

>>22085967
Why are the english such an unphilosophical people?

>>22086014
For the reasons above mentioned. A pathological worship of utility and the reduction of everything to numbers.

>>22085813
>I'm not a Christian so I don't care, and yes.
Well good.

>Russel
Oh well, for your edification Russel is a normal Englishman for that period. His ideas aren't any different to many people of that time, whereas the American children on here are just posturing because they watched an E Michael Jones video and decided that they're catholics now.

>>22085533
>>22085662
it's schizophrenia to insist on a delusion; to pretend the person proving you wrong that you're unable to answer is (some fantasy creature).

>>22085580
>You’re understanding of Christianity is American and post 1950s
My understanding is more 4th century, 10th century, 13th century, 16th-17th century and early 20th century. But ok. I'm sure you're just right because you're encouraging me to absorb the junk opinions of drug addicts and that this is the way to become informed on the complexity of the subject.

>>22085533
Implying anyone would ever join that place. If you freaks had the ability to downvote anything you disagreed with, this place would be Reddit. And I wouldn't be there.

You should go back and join a reddit for subs, in my opinion. YOu know what kind of subs I mean, you malding twink.

>>22086412
Reddit mad

>>22086429
I'm sorry it came to this, but you've broken the no trolling rule so goodbye for a few days, criminal.

>>22086444
Says the guy calling everyone schizophrenic and didn’t read the essay in question.

>>22076297
>wasting time writing a book trying to reason with theism
i simply dont believe cuz creationism sounds retarded and it only gets worse the more specific each religion gets

>>22086450
everyone is not two people and it's a common trait amongst cunts anyway so it's accurate.

If I were you I'd find your mothers crusty pussy pistol and put it to your eye-socket, you seem hell-bent on putting innocent men into prison for your brutal murder, random shit-talker, and it's not necessary when you can save us the trouble.

>>22086467
I’m not a creationist but I think it’s a reasonable theory. Cartesian demon sort of thing

>>22085358
Why is the username censored we can just search the post title and content to find him.

>>22076297
One of the most uncharitable philosophers of all time who seemed to think he could apply cutting edge math of the time to all philosophical issues and definitely "solve" then simply by giving answers that were complex and which lay people couldn't respond to.

His denial of causation and of the passage of time in particular are pretty retarded.

>>22086467
I don't believe evolution because it sounds retarded and only gets worse the more specific each level of scientism gets. If we came from apes why are there still apes? Why wouldn't all creatures evolve to reproduce asexually? And if it were random mutations that passed on via natural selection and we for now just accepted the proposed timeframe did work out, why wouldn't animals find an area, plateu in evolution and adapt to only their surroundings, a change in environment wiping them out? Why isn't every species besides those harder to kill ones like insects still alive after all this time? If that is the case, why are there still apes when we evolved? If now God created life, where did it come from. We have never seen something come from nothing.

I have never seen an ape turn into a human. Checkmate.

>>22087259
>I have never seen an ape turn into a human.
I have seen many humans turn into apes when they enter a cult shack, however.

>check
u got rooked, fucka

>>22087229
I Don’t know didnt make it

>>22087229
Because he's from reddit

>>22085088
>le heckin JEWISH KEKOLDS
>but I luv jews btw, russell is da best
>wiki filename
>reddit spacing
Bizarre. This is genuinely one of the worst posts I have ever seen. I refuse to believe it's a troll, because the consistent subconcious detail, the barely-obscured insecure seething, the nonsense rhetorical order of what you're trying to say. It all tells me this is 100% genuine, and that makes it even funnier. Incredible.

>>22085421
>In the middle ages, nobles LARPed as knights and mighty warriors yet never saw combat close up, they hid in the distance and were too scared to enter the battlefield
This isn't really true though. Battles weren't even that fatal, most of medieval warfare was focused on tiring out your energy than slaughtering them all.

>>22087555
This

>>22087322
Rooked ?

>>22088048
do you even know what chess is

>>22087555
>>reddit spacing
Of all the stupid off-topic non-sequitur projection-based critiques you made just then .. this is the worst.

>>shitbrain illiterate who has been tricked into believing hitting return is bad because "reddit"

>>22088866
>t. retard in denial weeps as he avoids to disabuse himself from that his retarded thought processes cannot be accurately analyzed from his transparently retarded statements
get checked, sweetie.

>>22089073
> his retarded thought processes cannot be accurately analyzed from his transparently retarded statements
Well if you want to pretend that neo-nazis didn't all become tradcaths through the youtuber pipeline over the last 15 yrs, having found a passable outlet for their blame of jews for everything wrong with them, then that's fine. Your denialism is disregarded.

>sweetie
But I'm not sure why a homosexual bottom is defending people like that. Neo-nazis and tradcaths don't have penises large enough to satisfy your anus, having come (pun intended) to political activism due to inability to get laid in the first place.

>>22088866
Reddit mad

>>22076297
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJRy3Kl_z5E
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/rELc88PvDkhetQzqx/complexity-and-intelligence

>>22089535
based lesswrong poster

>>22086481
>gets demolished
>resorts to schizoposting
get bent

>>22089557
I actually forgot this post. I thought the one with k-complexity has the example of a thunder-agent. If the intuition doesn't jump out at OP, the underlying structure of the human mind makes thunder-agents seem like the "simplest" explanation for thunder. This is because our underlying structure already has a model of "agent", other people. But in k-complexity terms, people are actually really complicated so an agent isn't the simplest explanation.
Kind of like how in different programming languages, you need to have different lengths of program to do the same thing. You could in principle have a programming language with a built in function to print hello world. Humans have a built in function to recognize other people and purposefulness.
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/f4txACqDWithRi7hs/occam-s-razor

>>22088866
Lol, thanks for proving me right.
When I say ‘Reddit spacing’ I’m not saying you’re literally from Reddit, I’m saying you format your posts in an ugly and annoying way. You come across through that post as scatterbrained, obsessed, self-important, and insecure. The fact that the ONLY part of me calling this out that you paid any attention to was the word ‘Reddit’ is proof of this. I don’t think you’re from Reddit, but I am certain that you’re a retarded, socially inept sperglord. Respond to every other word I say or die, you useless unloved bastard.

>>22085088
>Warhammer 40k Russell fan
Didn't read btw

>>22089670
It’s a Russell thread, he apologist are easy to slot because the Reddit spacing

>>22089670
>Lol, thanks for proving me right.
>When I say ‘Reddit spacing’ I’m not saying you’re literally from Reddit,
Okay, but you realize this a fucking deflection and a fantasy that you're using to blot out the content of the post, yes?

>The fact that the ONLY part of me calling this out that you paid any attention to was the word ‘Reddit’ is proof of this
> but I am certain that you’re a retarded, socially inept sperglord.
because it was all delusional nonsense; random pejoratives that came to your head as a coping mechanism because you disagreed politically with (whatever the fuck i said)... having no proof for any for your pejoratives and associations is why they are routinely ignored, and responding with off-topic pejoratives in the first place is proof you're guilty (of whatever i said). Whereas, you're a twisted psycho because you think throwing up these sociopathic delusions is convincing to anyone 'of' the argument in the fucking thread .... your brain is fucked.

>sperg
oh shit. i replied with one than one line

i mean look at this toxic displacmenet,
> I am certain that you’re a retarded, socially inept sperglord. Respond to every other word I say or die, you useless unloved bastard.
where do you get this from? this is all shit you're obviously feeling emotionally about yourself - you throw it up at strangers at random with no basis, it's disgusting. And was your predicted response in the first post you responded to, dumb fuck hahahahaa


"In fairness you're probably a neo-nazi turned catholic who hates the jews whilst worshipping and following jewish culture (i.e. prophet of the jews, god of jews, fairytales from judaism, et al.), so its not a wonder you can't understand intelligent peoples reflections on this - the mountain of dissonance involved for you, etc.

why, your first reaction to reading this will be that i'm some pejorative political buzzword."

so much truth apparently

bumpster

>>22076591
It’s just a way for him to justify either being a cuck or a player, pick your poison

>>22086412
>American boys have decided they’re Catholic now
The entire country hates us for being male.

>>22076297
>yet so god damn retarded at everything else.
He was rich and """noble"""

He said that prostitution might allow the man to think that any and every of his sexual desires can be fulfilled at will
FUCK, I have to work 10+ hours for one hour with a low-tier prostitute, that's not fucking "at will"
Damned anglo """noble"""

>>22076313
>many things that make sense to God don't always make sense to humans
kek

>>22076313
>the universe isn't always "2+2=4"

>>22090161
>muh skin colour, muh dick, not my actions or personality
quit being a nigger

>>22089857
what is discord troon like you doing here?

>>22090527
nice job confirming what i said to be true about you,
>> (no refutation followed by) i'm some pejorative political buzzword
since
>>its not a wonder you can't understand intelligent peoples reflections on this - the mountain of dissonance involved for you,

textbook behavior of guilt from a
>> neo-nazi turned catholic who hates the jews whilst worshipping and following jewish culture

Is this true??

>>22076297

>>22090999
His followers wrote 4-8 books about him, he doesn’t cut off family members.

Stupid Reddit tier meme

>>22090471
>>22090473
these didn't age well. Doomsday mentality fails again.

I agree with the "science is no longer science" point though, but obviously a religious person cannot take that observation to where it leads: that 'science' has become shit because 'science' has adopted the pomposity and hypocrisy of religious dogmatism. They can't explain what's wrong with the news desk either, for not wanting to explain what's wrong with the pulpit.

>>22091030

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple."


Matt. 10:35-37 “For I have come to turn a man against his father a daughter against her mother a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law---a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.”


Matthew 19:29 "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life."

1. You have nitpicked only one of the parallels listed
2. Calling an argument reddit does not rebut it, it's a thought terminating cliche, like "racist"

>>22076357
I agree with this. Mathematics is a language humans created as a measure of Him. Russel tried to outline a foundation to prove that our measure is verifiable within the same system of measure. Many mathematicians, many of which were blind themselves, came and disproved this capability.

Russel would have never attempted such a foolish endeavor if he had any guidance. Pure intellect without artistry, philosophy, and religion.

>>22091118
You would be wise to understand the tool you’re using. I would start with Matthew chapter one.

>>22092143

Posturing is also not argumentation.

>>22087322
Apes come from humans

>>22092158
Believing in God with all of your heart will make you a hated man. Why? Because when people see the fruits of your labor which you do because of God, people will then cannot deny His power, and then they will hate you because they are separate from Him.

But this requires believing in God, understanding what you are supposed to do, doing, and then professing. It is a fourfold path and it is very narrow.

>>22092168


>Believing in God with all of your heart will make you a hated man. Why?

Because people outside of a cult can see what it is, but people inside can't. Hence the 1.8 billion Muslims you and I can both see are deceived, but they can't see that. Or, are we just smarter than every Muslim? If not, there is a mechanism designed into successful religions that makes them appear convincing from the inside, keeping members fooled. What prevents you from being in that situation and not realizing it, for the same psychological reasons Muslims don't?

>>22076297
>How is he so competent at math
lol, lmao even. The guy doesn't even have a single result of note. The Principia is a big fat joke that amounted to nothing whatsoever in the world of mathematics. Russel is a moron.

>>22092182
Do you know why there’s 360 degrees in a circle? Have you thought about why we have days of the week and 60 seconds in a minute? 12 months? This is your task: answer these questions and you will find Him.

>>22076297
Wow. This is a guy from youtube thumbnails. He must be smart!

>>22092223

Are you actually retarded?

>>22092242
The answer is quite remarkable. If you are unwilling or unable, I suggest Matthew chapter one. The Lord speaks all languages.

>>22090940
but that was not me discord troon. you are already wrong there I accept your cencession cuck.

>>22092223
all of those things are entirely fabricated by humans. there are societies that don’t even have number systems and the people live full and happy lives.

>>22078052
he also talked about how redpilled eugenics was in his book Marriage and Morals, and said that abos have way worse culture than the white races.

do you have a higher res copy of that? its basically impossible to read.

this thread was pretty enjoyale to read and i learned one new word, malding, which as far as I can tell refers to those angry masochistic orgasm sounds that gamers make when they're absorbed in a game and they die.

the guy with his conspiracy about russell buying his mathematical work off unknown mathematicians is probably the funniest part of the thread.

also, this guy with his off-topic effusion of horny rage:
>>22090182
if you live somewhere with a good welfare/dole program, maybe you can save up enough by just skipping occasional meals and eating spartan shit like lentils and toast, cutting out frivolous purchases. then you wont have to work. maybe you can find something romantic about starving yourself to see a whore, in a baudelaire kinda way.
interesting to think about how many whore-hours is each hour of work. in my country the minimum wage is about 0.1 whore-hours per hour.

>>22092182
Knowing and Believing are two different actions. Both are needed, evidenced by how much our brains do each of these things and how they factor in leading fulfilling lives.
You are just a literal midwit with extremely low self reflection skills who doesn't understand how much of the stuff he thinks he knows he believes.
You compensate for this by dunking on dimwit/borderline retarded religious people, which means you're at leas subconsciously aware of how pathetic you come across.

>>22092527
>Knowing and Believing are two different actions.
They are not 'actions', one is a humble stance produced by an unbiased examination of a thing, "i know, because i did not enter with preconceptions," and the other is egotism, "i believe, by which i mean i know, and i won't change my mind - just because," which is a toddler-like mental state of stubbornity.

>Both are needed
ha
> how they factor in leading fulfilling lives
that demonstrates the difference: you are thinking of egotism "oh, i will be made emotionally happy by pretending this," whereas the reality-based position is, "i may not like what i find but it's more important to be correct due to the consequences of being wrong," i.e. a forward-thinking scientific hunter-gatherer-based human position.

i should add, 'nta'.

also,
>You compensate for this by dunking on dimwit/borderline retarded religious people, which means you're at leas subconsciously aware of how pathetic you come across.
I think you're greatly undervaluing the thankless task of trying to educate the mob of lunatics who comprise (and compromise the integrity of) society in the west nowadays.

>>22076297
You're talking about a guy who denied that causation exists and who denied that change exists.

His rationale for this was pretty much just the Eleatic Paradoxes dressed up in lots of cutting edge math terminology to make it sound authoritative. He used Cantor's definition of denseness to show that Zeno is absolutely right, change and motion are impossible!

Except that Aristotle showed how Zeno's Arrow is a flawed fallacy of composition millennia ago. Russel ignores the easy solution because he is all about cutting edge maths he doesn't fully understand (because no one at the time did) and showing counterintuitive things to be true because he was an uncharitable edgelord.

The arrow never changes in any frozen moment of time because time is the dimension in which change occurs. The denseness problem holds no threat to time here. Unfortunately, Russell's argument, while dead with philosophers, is popular with physicists with a novice background in philosophy, who seem to think Russell and bad interpretations of the twin paradox that misunderstood proper time somehow "prove" eternalism.

Funny enough, Russell actually later embraced bare substratum, pure haecceity that universals can attach to, a wonky metaphysical idea in the context of his thoughts, simply to save his eras logic from absurdity. The guy knew his foundations were shakey but acted like he had proved them as God's own truth.

>>22092561
>change exists
(*change: very broad word there chap)

Does it? When I calculated the motion of the planets and our moon and compared the results with the Ancient Roman calendar of 700BC I found that the planets and the moon have not moved by one jot since that point and today.

>>22092395
why did every society that measured Him agree on seven days and 360 degrees?

>>22092579
>Him
Sol Invictus.

>>22092561
I sometimes wonder about his reaction to Gödel and if he had any basis for his opinion.

And I further wonder because Wittgenstein was on his side despite Wittgenstein being as adept at logic as both.

I also read a lot of letters from contemporaries with confusion about the proofs

>>22092550
he's referring to the context of their inteconnection where primitively embedding a belief to a preexistent internal system precedes or doesn't (typically) invoke the action of knowing/rationalizing the given belief(s), either you're retarded and/or strawmanning since what he's saying is true.
both aren't "needed", but both are needed.

>>22092610
>he's referring to the context of their inteconnection where primitively embedding a belief to a preexistent internal system precedes or doesn't (typically) invoke the action of knowing/rationalizing the given belief(s),
you're giving far too much credit to 'him'. He's just repeating something he's gotten from youtube video or one of those daycare sessions where a stupid man walks around young people and makes claims that he is professing this or that to be true by complicated sophistries.

ha im just making jokes

as to the content:
> the context of their inteconnection where primitively embedding a belief to a preexistent internal system precedes or doesn't (typically) invoke the action of knowing/rationalizing the given belief(s),
> what he's saying is true.
>strawman
>both aren't "needed", but both are needed.
This is obviously flawed as a person cannot 'Know' and 'Believe' something about a thing at the same time. This is an apologism for non-thought.

i.e.
Beliefs are in themselves will always be erroneous things because they are not derived from an open an unbiased study in the first place, that the intellectual disposition of an elderly theologian who professes belief is identical to a tiny child who professes the same thing. And: why would anyone argue for something to be true if they didn't know it was true? Egoism and not Science. The disposition of the stubborn toddler.

>retarded and/or strawmanning
looks like you've been filtered. I'm almost tempted to have ignored your sperg when I saw this, but then I wouldn't have an opportunity to speak about fun things. kek

>>22092550
Sadly I can only properly respond in a few hours when I get home, but a few thoughts before then
>emotionally happy
Happiness wasn't a goal until science and objectivism became state religion.
It's about acceptance and coming to terms with consequences you can't avoid, as opposed to burying your head in the sand or fighting an impossible battle. Moreover, life itself was comprised of much more of those, well not consequences as much as instances. If anything, it keeps egotism in check. But I'm not sure if you'll respond kindly to any religious stories/texts which speak in my favour about this.
People mostly turned to religion to accept things, not really explain them. Explaining what a thunder is pretty cool, coming to terms with the fact it killed your son is a completely different psychological process.
>thanksless job
So you're doing a thankless job for altruistic reasons (supposedly) and are bashing egotism. Please go meditate, study whatever, because you're deaf to your own world.
This wasnt my entire response but it'll have to do for now as I'm phoneposting from a public transport.

>>22092569
Yeah, but in Russell's sense he is denying the reality of becoming in physics and is eliminitivist towards causation.

The problem isn't his arguments, which were worthwhile, but his tendency to present every thought he had as iron clad truth, with all dissenters being mouth breathing retards. His overconfidence, only matched maybe by Hegel, who at least has the benefit of being far more charitable and contributing far more to philosophy, is the main problem.

It's lead to eternalism and mathematical Platonism becoming the norm in physics. You get this weird thing where many physicists are pan computationists, but then computation itself is apparently illusory. Just look at Tegmark's jumbled up philosophy in Our Mathematical Universe (still a good book).

IMO Platonism towards discrete mathematical objects but not processes is a specter haunting the natural sciences and philosophy. 2+2 and 6-2 both = 4 but they aren't the same computation, driving from San Francisco and San Diego to LA both go to the same LA but they arent the same drive. Computation = causation models, big with It From Bit guys, resolve Hume's entire argument against cause as observing billiard balls crash IS observing the step wise logical entailments that result in change in the universe. I.e., Liebnitz was right, computation is the stepwise enumeration of logical entailment, the stepwise nature of which cannot be abstracted away.

Eternalism makes no sense IMO. Some laws of physics are reversible, physics as a whole is not. You never see pool balls jump out of their pockets and into a rack. Ripples do not converge on still water and shoot a rain drop into the sky. Radiation particles don't fly into decaying nuclei. Most importantly, wave function collapse only goes in one direction, instantaneously. I find it odd that people have so readily embraced a pleroma of alternate universes to save eternalism, which was only boosted in the first place to save the status of propositions. Dude should have not quit on Hegel after getting filtered the first time, he has some good stuff here.

>>22092674
>Happiness wasn't a goal until science and objectivism
I think we're either agreeing on this or coming at different angles; "(to prefer to bury head in sand to avoid) to be happy (with some delusion)" is what motivates a person to reject evidence and shy away from learning anything, at the deepest core of their being and this is a baseline predisposition of a toddler; requiring nothing on their part.
>It's about acceptance and coming to terms with consequences you can't avoid, as opposed to burying your head in the sand or fighting an impossible battle.
exactly.
Yes.

>People mostly turned to religion to accept things, not really explain them.
Disagree.

The earliest 'religions' of humans were in fact engaged in 'scientific' activities in order to determine the future and conduct themselves in accordance to the best possible outcome; the proof of this is found in the haruspex and augur who examined the flight of birds and lightning and the motion of stars and moon, etc. and were able to "know for sure" if bad weather was coming or whether tides would be bad, etc.

Whereas the placid acceptance or fatalism is not a religious monopoly but a use of religion 'as' a coping mechanism for powerless peoples who simply don't know better than to kill an invading barbarian army by studying the martial disciplines and easily defeating them... or were logistically incompetent to move their village out of a flood plain. muchliketoday.

>phoneposting from a public transport.
Good for you. I write some of my best works that way.

>>22092674
>Happiness wasn't a goal until science and objectivism
I think we're either agreeing on this or coming at different angles; "(to prefer to bury head in sand to avoid) to be happy (with some delusion in the short term, ignoring the evidence of great harm in the long term)" is what motivates a person to reject evidence and shy away from learning anything; not wanting to be disturbed at the time and ignoring the consequences of inaction by pretending this or that. At the deepest core of their being and this is a baseline predisposition of a toddler; requiring nothing on their part.
>It's about acceptance and coming to terms with consequences you can't avoid, as opposed to burying your head in the sand or fighting an impossible battle.
exactly.
Yes.

>People mostly turned to religion to accept things, not really explain them.
Disagree.

The earliest 'religions' of humans were in fact engaged in 'scientific' activities in order to determine the future and conduct themselves in accordance to the best possible outcome; the proof of this is found in the haruspex and augur who examined the flight of birds and lightning and the motion of stars and moon, etc. and were able to "know for sure" if bad weather was coming or whether tides would be bad, etc.

Whereas the placid acceptance or fatalism is not a religious monopoly but a use of religion 'as' a coping mechanism for powerless peoples who simply don't know better than to kill an invading barbarian army by studying the martial disciplines and easily defeating them... or were logistically incompetent to move their village out of a flood plain. muchliketoday.

>phoneposting from a public transport.
Good for you. I write some of my best works that way.

>>22092582
tranny god

>>22092806
I don't know enough about half of this to comment lol but,
>Just look at Tegmark's jumbled up philosophy in Our Mathematical Universe (still a good book).
I'll be looking this up, it sounds funny.

> I find it odd that people have so readily embraced a pleroma of alternate universes to save eternalism,
I don't think that's the intention of the alt reality thing as the alt reality thing is better explained by people wanting to do today what Plotinus was laughing at back in the day: to just make-up fantasies where proof does't apply and then claim 'truth' to be whatever they feel like, pretending great wisdom at the same time.

You make a good case though.

>>22092645
why are you reddit tranny having breakdown in multiple threads?

>>22092875
i agree. But (you/they) wondered how humans arrived at a basic grasp of physics and hours and days universally; (you/they) mentioned they must have surely MEASURED GOD and I gave one of the names of that God, it being the fucking Sun.

No i agree with you though, solar cultists are bad and unmasculine. The true measurer is Serapis-Haides as everybody knows.

>>22076313
Forgive me but it's pretty hard not to take the axioms at face value. I guess you're to deep for me :)

>>22092879
why are you speak bad english when speak to kind englishman who take you in from wartorn desert region

disrespectful, lose hand at once.

>>22092879
Tries to redditorially detach himself from the defeat, silly..silly man

>>22092875
>tranny god
you need to google "eunuchs in the church" before trying to dunk on your fellow christians in modernity who also believe, as you, that the human body is a source of evil which requires genital mutilation.

>>22076297
Was he the first Coomer ?

>>22077338
Left is Australian aboriginal, right is cro-magnon proto-Aryan

>>22092876
You're correct, it isn't just about eternalism.

Alternative universes are useful for atheists because they help solve the fine tuning problem, i.e. why a bunch of arbitrary natural constants are "just so," so as to enable life.

If eternal inflation generates all possible universes then we can invoke the Anthropic Principle to say that we just happen to observe a universe where life is possible because we could only observe in such a universe. Since all possibilities are actualized, our being here isn't suprising.

The problem here is that there doesn't seem to be any reason why all explanations of all of nature can't be chalked up to, "well of course we see X, X is clearly possible since we see it, and all possibilities happen as brute fact, so no surprise here." The problem of the early universe's low entropy is also handwaved in this fashion as well.

Nagel's Mind and Cosmos has a pretty good critique of the problems inherit in this view. The Copernican Principle and the idea that the universe must be meaningless and devoid of purpose has become a religion-like dogma unfortunately. Perhaps it is the case, but it's gone wrong when people start casting aspersions on scientific theories that invoke natural teleology because it offends their preconception that nature MUST be purposeless.

It's a sort of scientism I suppose. It's also the source of a lot of poorly thought out hyper nominalist physicalism.

>>22093069
This is of course leaving aside the problem of how to interpret the Borne Rule in a MWI multiverse. Maybe inflation based multiverse sidestep this, but they seem to run into problems with how to interpret probability anyhow if all possibilities occur with P = 1.

In a fully naturalist conception of reality you also run into the problem of why we should have any faith in our own sense of logic. Wouldn't this just be a sense shaped by evolution and unlikely to represent reality truthfully? But without logic and mathematics being on sure footing, why believe in science in the first place? Faith in reason is posterior to faith in scientific endeavours and faith in science requires a faith that at least some human institutions can undergo progress, else why favor today's physics textbooks over those of a century ago? E.g. Hoffman's The Case Against Reality, Plantinga's Is Naturalism Rational?

IMO, these problems stem from Galileo's firewall between mind and body. It leads to use mistaking maps of the natural world, scientific/mathematical models that exist within first person experience, with the territory itself. There is a deep problem with this iron clad conviction that the world can be known through experience, but that experience is not truly part of the world, but something ontologically derivative.

You don't have to go all wild idealist to work out a solution to this. Something like Pinkhard's deflationary version on Hegel addresses the issue head on enough.

>>22092969
mayhaps…

>>22076313
I'm not gonna call this thought stupid but u shouldn't let it poison whatever philosophical thoughts bounce around your head.
>>22076357
This is half-true, half-stupid. The PM was famously uncompleted—and, as Gödel and Tarski proved, its contents are incomplete. On the other hand, Russell used math to advance the philosophy discourse in a direction where it's still moving. Their competency definitely wasn't with problem-solving, but their use of math was second only to the other PM. Remember, Arthur Prior is the one who invented the A-series/B-series thing (the incompatibility of modal senses of time with relational senses of time). Not McTaggart.

>>22092806
>It's lead to eternalism and mathematical Platonism becoming the norm in physics. You get this weird thing where many physicists are pan computationists, but then computation itself is apparently illusory. Just look at Tegmark's jumbled up philosophy in Our Mathematical Universe (still a good book).
Those people are generally intuitionists who don't know what that is, and accidentally call themselves platonists. The history of mathematics is very different from the history of physics, Tegmark makes lots of mistakes.
>IMO Platonism towards discrete mathematical objects but not processes is a specter haunting the natural sciences and philosophy
Process ≠ continuum. You can have a discrete process (a diagram). I don't think this has any relationship to what you wrote after.
> Eternalism makes no sense IMO. Some laws of physics are reversible, physics as a whole is not
We like to say that this fact of time-irreversibility (entropy) is a product of gravity, but of course the explanation in terms of particles is probably far more complicated than that. Either way, we call any force which explains entropy (time-irreversibility wrt to phase space) gravity, e.g. "quantum gravity," even when it doesn't anyway resemble the macroscopic phenomena.

>>22092561
That sounds like a heavily digested misunderstanding of the relationship between analysis and Zeno's paradoxes of motion. Where did you hear it from?
>Except that Aristotle showed how Zeno's Arrow is a flawed fallacy of composition millennia ago. Russel ignores the easy solution because he is all about cutting edge maths he doesn't fully understand (because no one at the time did) and showing counterintuitive things to be true because he was an uncharitable edgelord.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Why not give up mathematical physics in favor of Aristotle's self-pushing arrow?
>Funny enough, Russell actually later embraced bare substratum, pure haecceity that universals can attach to, a wonky metaphysical idea in the context of his thoughts, simply to save his eras logic from absurdity. The guy knew his foundations were shakey but acted like he had proved them as God's own truth.
More heavily-digested rubbish. Nothing like haeccity is applicable in math.

>>22092889
>(you/they)
I am not a sol invictus, anything else is your babbling delusions.
>>22092912
you need to google eunuch celtic cults and tranny emperor who worshipped your gay pagan god. Next read up on good faith arguments before you 41 yourself.

>>22092894
t. shitskin seething
>>22092900
nice deflection tranny tranny man.

>>22093601
>you need to google eunuch celtic cults and tranny emperor who worshipped your gay pagan god. Next read up on good faith arguments before you 41 yourself.
:D IT'S YOU FROM HERE
>>22093554
>meanwhile the Holy Spirit helps me write my manuscripts and laughs when I convince another troon to 41%.
HAHAHAHAHA fucking hell the troll-em-till-the-suicide guy

>I am not a sol invictus,
yes you are you closet tranny kek kek

>>22094315
back to dilation then. I don't even know what suicide you are fagging about

>another thread devolved into faggy orthodox christcuck spam

>>22094959
ITT i learned i was black person

>>22093606
>shitskin seething

>>22076313
>but human inventions or discoveries make sense to God
How did you find this out? Did he go on Joe Rogan for an interview recently?

>>22094968
thanks for signing your post
>>22094959
another thread of atheistcucks getting blown out

>>22095568
your mother told me after I nutted in her face

>>22094968 (You)
>thanks for signing your post
oh fuck you
that me made laugh

What's wrong with your brain?
Why would you ever think it's more likely that some guy rose from the dead 2000 years ago, rather than it didn't happen

>>22096463
Because everybody around them shares the same delusion and they lack individual critical thinking.

I wish this motherfucker would rise from the dead so I could stab him with an ice pick and porn rail his corpse

>>22096837
calm down enlightened plebbitor. Grab a dilator or something

>>22096874
therfor, God real

>>22096874
Anon, there are plenty of people now using dilators on the regular. Where is your god now?

>>22096874
btw, why do you think it's more likely that some guy rose from the dead 2000 years ago?

>>22093463
>Why not give up mathematical physics
I'm starting to doubt if you are even intelligent in the first place to misconstrue my position so candidly. If you were, you would have been capable to entertain my points and understand and adress them using your intellectual prowess. But since you don't and you are actually pretty laissez-faire in your demeanor and philosophy, I'm starting to think that you either use Se or Ne in MBTY cognitive sequences, which is my(INTJ) polar opposite. If you use Se I'm thinking about ESFP with Ti PoLR since you are not able to grasp logic. Or you are simply an INTP with Ne auxiliary who relativizes everything and doesn't see the main point Ni. If the latter is the case, then you are pretty immature INTP with a lack of Ti logical thought. Instead, your rely on your inferior Fe to discard my position in context of the social spectrum and deflect my points without addressing them. Just like your dual, the ESFJ. Yep, you are an INTP with no use of Ti since you focus on your ESFJ subconscious and your Se PoLR makes you not be aware of the evidence presented.

>>22096983
I don't think that's your position, I think that's where your position would end up. idk what those abbreviations are but I'm ENFP
>>22096463
>>22096837
>>22096904
Translation: There's tremendous historical evidence for the crucifixion and, in another respect, the resurrection.

>>22096983
>if you are even intelligent in the first place to misconstrue my position so candidly. If you were, you would have been capable to entertain my points
>since you are not able to grasp logic
Anon,
pretending that people who reject your premises and conclusions are "mentally retarded" is not a successful tactic but the first and last possible bastion of defense of a heavily wrong-headed and completely common disposition of ignorant egotism.

>(popsci internet quiz babble)
Are you managing to convince yourself at least? good good. coddled safespace mentality.

>>22096904
>>22096888
>>22096882
it's nice how easy it is to call out troons. I hit a nerve it seems. Only thing you plebbit tourist will get is rope around your necks.

>>22097064
Is it possible Jesus was crucified, yet didn't come back from the dead?

>>22097863

>be christian
>go on 4chan and insult people every day
very christ-like

>be atheist
>go on 4chan and DO NOT regurgitate half-apprehended nonsense
very atheist-like

>>22097954
>be atheist
>go on Reddit and seethe about lgbt rights all day

Very atheist

>>22097867
Yes, but the historical evidence indicates that the tomb was found empty.

Which is interesting.
1. Jews didn’t really think of physical ressurection in there theology
2. Was the body stolen by disciples and dumped in a ditch?
3. Where did it go and how did they get past the guards

>>22098070
Why Paul never even mention the empty tomb?

>>22098070
Does the historical evidence indicated that the Romans put 24/7 super-guards that couldn't possibly be bribed at the tomb? why would they do that?

This seems like exactly the kind of detail we would expect, from someone that was making up a story where they wanted to explain why the body being stolen was not an explanation for the tomb being empty.

>>22098070
> the tomb
tomb? Nobody stops to ask how a supposdly impoverished person had a TOMB to begin with - can you afford a tomb?
FYI the body was not taken down from the crucifix under any circumstances, it was left to rot as a warning. The warning and sight of the body was the reason for crucifixion, it was desired that the corpse was observed for years.

assuming the geography claimed by the church of the holy sephulcer is true, and not totally made-up by Constantine's people 300 years later

What I want to know is why the Romans did the crucifixion right outside Joseph of Arimathea's tomb, seems super disrespectful

very funny thread hahahaha the shitslinging from all sides is good

>>22098326
this is a good point, on par to the mystery of why the jews pray at the wall of the garrison of legio fretensis in aelia capitolina.

jews are retards
at least christians did away with most of the absurd traditions

>>22093069
You don't need multiple universes or some Susskind-Penrosey fecund universe model for anthropic reasoning to hold.

Their bias stems from the inability to demote the human in their models. Why are the values such as to create a human observer? Because they are, and we might just be a very non-special end result of a thing that happened in this universe with no need for others with wildly different values. That's not say there aren't other realms expressing different laws, and that our work doesn't suggest them, but you don't need them for the fine tuning problem to not be a problem.

>>22097867
Very possible, in fact I think among *relevant* academics that this is probably the dominant assumption.
There is certainly a lot of evidence the tomb was left empty, but none of it is the sort of evidence which is easily invalidated by 2) in >>22098070
Also, re >>22098070, "physical resurrection" is a part of our culture deeply influenced by Christianity itself; but if you strip away this Christian influence, there was yet anciently a Pagan and Jewish notion of reincarnation/resurrection which – just like Jewish baptism – doesn't at all resemble the Christian form. We know from the NT that Pharisees were liable to be walking around asking people "are you Elijah?" which indicates the sort of Pythagorean~Eastern~Jewish reincarnation I'm imagining (I assume it wasn't proposed as a natural law, like reincarnation in Indian culture, which was part of the natural law called karma—no Western equivalent).

>>22098545
*Smolin, not Susskind, although I think he does hold this landscape model.

>>22097944
nice wojakposting newfag

>>22098247
Magdalene

>>22097064
>There's tremendous historical evidence for the crucifixion
Yeah, it was an execution method
>and, in another respect, the resurrection
There is jack shit, aside from every other mythology having a similar story championing the violation of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. The more likely reality is that his message lived on, despite his death, and he literally became a meme.

>>22098247
>how a supposdly impoverished person
Wasn't he descended from royalty on Joseph's side? I thought that's why Mary and Joseph were on the run to begin with, since the local king was slaughtering any potential heirs to the throne.

>>22098878
No, Herod was freaking out and had every boy two or younger in the vicinity of Bethlem killed

>>22099091
>had every boy two or younger in the vicinity of Bethlem killed
Did this really happen?

>>22099091
Was there any particular reason he was doing this? Sounds like almost a repeat of that time all the Egyptian firstborns were slaughtered. How often does this kind of thing happen in the Bible?

>>22099215
The Magi spilled the beans to him about the King of the Jews

>>22099221
Why were a bunch of Zoroastrians looking for the supposed king of a different religion in the first place?

>>22098870
No there is evidence the only thing that makes one not accept it is a Hume style objection

>>22098070
The historical evidence suggests the followers of Jesus claimed there was an empty tomb, there is no record of what the rest of Jerusalem thought. Don't be a gullible retard.

>>22098070
>1. Jews didn’t really think of physical ressurection in there theology
There are three explicit examples in the Hebrew Bible of people being resurrected from the dead:

The prophet Elijah prays and God raises a young boy from death (1 Kings 17:17-24)
Elisha raises the son of the Woman of Shunem (2 Kings 4:32-37) whose birth he previously foretold (2 Kings 4:8-16)
A dead man's body that was thrown into the dead Elisha's tomb is resurrected when the body touches Elisha's bones (2 Kings 13:21)

>>22099250
>Hume style objection
That it's more probable that people are making stuff up, than some guy rising from the dead 2000 years ago and being this universe's cause?

>>22099250
>there is evidence
Lmao what evidence? Inb4 this moron brings up the Shroud of Turin I will shit myself laughing

>>22076533
Kek

>>22099229
why not? no where is it stated they were 3 btw.

>>22098870
2nd law of thermodynamics can be violated.

>>22076297
If there was a way to arrive at one conclusion or another logically we would've found it by now. I have yet to see an argument for or against the existence of God that doesn't rest on some presupposition that you can easily refuse to buy into.

>>22099820
Yes, but the chances become exponentially smaller when you increase the scale. Violations on the quantum level are reasonable, but statistically it becomes nil extremely quickly when you zoom out.

>>22098582
I forgot to respond you. your assertion of antisemitism is false retarded moron. Also even if that was true you willfully ignore the main reason for it and play dishonest card like a subhuman pagancuck you are.

>russell bait thread on /lit/
>300 + replies
>/pol/-tier shitslinging fest

>>22100941
entire world violates it.

>>22100974
How so? Everything seems to be running normally on my end.

>>22087259
>If we came from apes why are there still apes?
Isn't the idea that apes and humans came from a common ancestor, not that apes as they are now just turned into humans?

>Why wouldn't all creatures evolve to reproduce asexually?
Because if you only evolve asexually the population is going to be less diverse, so when something comes along like a virus or a changing habitat, if it affects some of the population it's likely to affect almost all of the population. It's like how all bananas are pretty much identical, so if a disease or fungus shows up that kills bananas there aren't any that are resistant so they'll all die.

>And if it were random mutations that passed on via natural selection and we for now just accepted the proposed timeframe did work out, why wouldn't animals find an area, plateu in evolution and adapt to only their surroundings, a change in environment wiping them out?
Some have? Sharks and crocodiles for instance are pretty much unchanged. But mutations are going to happen no matter the circumstances: even if an animal is doing well at the moment, mutations will occur and if there is some edge the creature gets from that mutation it has a chance to start spreading through the population over generations.

>Why isn't every species besides those harder to kill ones like insects still alive after all this time?
Because most of the Earth isn't an extreme inhospitable environment. You only need to be hardy enough to survive, not be the absolute hardiest thing on the planet.

>>22087259
>If we came from apes why are there still apes?
Are you familiar with the concept of forking? Things can diverge and change differently over time.
>Why wouldn't all creatures evolve to reproduce asexually?
Sexual reproduction is a rather efficient setup that allows for gene shuffling to prevent evolutionary stagnation. This is extremely useful when bacteria and fungi are constantly trying to find ways to fuck up your body for their own benefit.
>And if it were random mutations that passed on via natural selection and we for now just accepted the proposed timeframe did work out, why wouldn't animals find an area, plateu in evolution and adapt to only their surroundings, a change in environment wiping them out?
Most of the Tree of Life has been pruned off and is completely missing from the fossil record. And there are some biases in the "random" part of mutations. Many mutations will just lead to self-termination of the cell, which reduces the possible permutations. There are also redundant codons that work practically the same, allowing for some of the errors to be smoothed over. Some organisms have managed to be so stable in their environment, that they've barely changed at all in millions of years.
>Why isn't every species besides those harder to kill ones like insects still alive after all this time?
Most species that have ever been alive have gone extinct. You don't necessarily have to be hard to kill, you just have to stick around in conditions that aren't likely to kill you faster than you can reproduce.
>If that is the case, why are there still apes when we evolved?
Have you seen the muscles on a chimp? They just specialized in different stats.
>If now God created life, where did it come from
We've found the materials for life on all sorts of meteorites and RNA can spontaneously form on basalt glass under the right conditions. Lipid bi-layers form on their own, so cell membranes are the easy part. Once you get some kind of chemical replicator going, it just has to keep doing its thing, with minor changes in the replication process iterating up over billions of years.
>We have never seen something come from nothing
The materials were there. It's just a matter of them being arranged in such a way that they create more of themselves from the available materials.

>>22078596
pretty sure he prayed, not willing upon it himself

>>22100988
why would it not?

>>22101033
>We've found the materials for life on all sorts of meteorites
there is big difference between materials for life and life forms.
> RNA can spontaneously form on basalt glass under the right conditions.
we don't know right condition
>Once you get some kind of chemical replicator going
>some kind of
these words are doing very heavy lifting

>>22101625
For starters, we aren't a closed system. We have a nuclear inferno, about 100 times wider than our planet, constantly feeding energy to us.

>>22081789
>because it only exists in the form of a comlrehnsion based on faith. You can't use reason to understand it, you must have faith it is so.
Do you have any idea how retarded you sound?

>>22101738
I am talking about universe

>>22101990
It's expanding as far as we can tell.

>>22092139
>Mathematics is a language humans created as a measure of Him.
Based and true.
Science is the mathematical thought of God.