/lit/ - Literature

Does being naturally angry make you a better writer?

https://youtu.be/aOJ6EzUBXnY

>>22049531
Matching the emotional tone of your audience is probably more important.
You can be angry, but these days, you would also have to be a social agitator.
Being angry about how the nation is going to Hell in a handbasket isn't likely to make your work very popular.

>post story online
>Nobody comments
>Will never know if the story is good or not
>Will never be able to fix it
>Die in obscurity
>Question why I wrote it in the first place

>>22049594
I write because I've got a fire burning in me, and all I can do about it is let it flow out of my fingers and into my keyboard.

>>22049594
it's 2023, nobody reads except for those who are studying, old people and eccentric zommers like me. but women love slop tho. so you try your luck there. but writing something of value in the current era is not a great pursuit, maybe future generations will recognise your talent but...

>>22049594
tfw. normies all started writing and posting online, and they have social media and spam the shit out of it so it gets reads. but a normie can only write something that resembles a novel in the loosest terms--when you look inside, there is nothing there. it's a mash of all the crap that normie has read recently, parboiled and strained so you have a pile of limp soggy thoughts laid out in a pathetic row, no tension, no climax, no meaning, no resolution, no change, no uniqueness, no creativity, nothing out of the box, held together with the bare minimum of prose the average public-educated office slave is capable of shitting out, most of the time it being not even grammatically correct let alone pleasurable. But on first glance it indeed resembles a novel, and that's enough to trick other normies into thinking they're reading one. Most people enjoy eating McDonalds.

I wish I had a story arc as a writer

wrote some stuff, it's not much but it's something. A slow process but it's coming along.

I've written 97 pages (~49000 words) of my short story (now turned novel I suppose) in the past month. Its unedit schlock that needs at least a second draft, but I just can't fucking stop writing.
My muse does not whisper in my ear, she screams in a tone which forces my fingers to their task.
I do not intend to publish

>>22049594
ill read your story

>>22049614
you're describing my writing

Chat gpt helps with speaking enish fluently without mistake.

Someone commented that they liked it.

>>22049899
ayy! there you go son. wgmi

Give me some shit you wrote. I want to see if it's better than the litrpg progression anime shit shilled on here.

6 months using ai everyday has taught me a life times worth of ideas and techniques, it's but a matter of time before I'm a world renowned author now.

>>22049531
I've been writing since age 15 as a hobby. Everything is relatively bright and breezy until 18 and 19, which is borderline unbearable to the point I don't want to know that person, it was Elliott Roger tier, but that person was me, kek.

>>22049937
I know this is bait but chatgpt stories are bland as fuck

>>22049937
me 2. i just need to write (any day now)

>>22049958
It's not bait just a little bit cheeky. Chat gpt is very superficial but it acts as a conversation partner useful for making you have epiphanies about things.

>>22049958
>>22049964
i would argue that not using chatGPT is putting yourself at a serious disadvantage. and i'm not talking about using it to actually write your book, but just about everything else.

>>22049964
How is it for checking grammar? I have a shit habit of hopping tenses, so can I ask it to correct it to past tense etc?

>>22049974
if you're asking this, it will blow your fucking socks off.
you can also use edge to access to (something like) gpt4. i still have to test it out though
anyway, consider it a personal editor you can pester with almost any question

>>22049974
It's astonishingly good at that.

>>22049990
I use it to help me write scripts for work (system administrator) but I ask because I'm absolutely terrible at grammar and I know that chatgpt can sometimes lie or you need to further refine the answer to get it to do what you want.

> handing over your work to ChatGPT for "grammar check"

i'd ask you why not, but you're just pisd and won't answer

>>22050052
Why not?

Mfw I'm permabanned from ChatGPT for making it tell an antisemitic joke

>>22050097
i have had hours worth of cybersex with chatgpt. to be clear: chatgpt has literally made me cum (many times)

>>22050111
Raw chat gpt?

>>22050128
it's sort of doable (tried briefly), but naw.. using tavernAI, which is frontend that basically just spams it with prompts/jailbreaks, while hiding that exchange from you.

>>22050128
>>22050154
via the API, which is a little more relaxed.

>>22050097
Yeah it doesn't like humor in my experience I got flagged for asking it to make jokes about bananas

guys, i just discovered my unique litrpg idea has actually already been done like 3 times. i will proceed anyway.

>>22050111
I do ERP with Character AI all day every day. It only bans normal sex acts. fetishist chads literally cannot stop winning.
>verification not required

>>22050250
You want that, it pushes you to use your brain.

>>22049819
Give me a few weeks. I'm still letting Chatgpt generate it for me.

>over half the post ITT are about AI

>>22050716
+1

>>22049512
>OP made thread early so he could his use his shitty paste and post AI
It's war then

>>22050753
should we make a new thread? This general is literally all AI talk. Last two threads had been great because most people ignore his faggotry. This guy shouldn't be allowed to just step all over us and shilling his crap

>>22050774
make it NOW

>>22050774
>>22050780
>complains
>doesn't discuss lit
>samefags
>creates new thread with his own ai picture
>proceeds to not discuss lit
very cool cant wait

Here's the real thread
>>22050798
>>22050798
>>22050798
>>22050798

This ones for writing

>>22050804
My bad, forgot the title

>>22050831
>>22050831
>>22050831
>>22050831

>>22050093
You're feeding the beast.

>>22050804
>>22050834
Based.

>>22049937
How does an AI teach you ideas?

>>22050834
based. abandon ship

Whomstever made the third /wg/ general in the catalog needs to have a permanent 4channel vacation.

>>22050900
i'm convinced it's one guy samefagging. /wg/ is smarter than this

Thoughts on entering writing contests? Looks like each one I enter I'll be dropping $20-40. Worth it? For novels.

so um, is like, this thread illegal or something?

>>22050900
>>22051062
I honestly dgaf if the samefagging schizo bakes it. but seeing as >>22049512 baked it correct i may as well butter it.

>editing two chapters a day
>now 45 ahead of current release
>all the editing is making my brainstorming go cumulo nimbus
t-thanks i guess

>>22049512
>https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/52324/violent-solutions
>Be up to date on my heavily antisemetic literature with Ai protagonist.
>Now better able to write flow of consciousness
Why yes, how could you tell?

>>22051574
Depends if the result is you being forced into a contract or loosing rights to your work?

>>22050250
so like every other lit-rpg then?

>>22050862
Just like Google is useful for finding reference material, but ChatGPT is more interactive.

>>22049754
You sound like a natural born web-serial writer.
Take that shit to RoyalRoad, ScribbleHub, WattPad, and/or AO3!

>>22049958
"Bland" is how normies like their "writing".
ChatGPT is fluent in "normie" speak.
You act like that's a bad thing. It's not. It's wonderful. Practically transformative.

>>22052612
>"Bland" is how normies like their "writing".
wrong
normies enjoy gratuitousness
short attention spans

>>22050250
If you can review those 3 LitRPGs, find their flaws, and transcend them in your own work, no one will care (or notice) that the idea's been done before!

>>22049937
This is flawed reasoning. If you were the only one in the world with access to it, yes you would be at the top of your field, 5 years ago.

Today though, all the authors are using it so the competition has been ramped up massively. You will end up even lower on the totem pole.

I use it everyday too, but I surrender that the world as we know it, is over. The best we can hope for is that we all remain legends in our own mind.

Why, yes, I did write 2,000 words today.

>>22052499
It's unlikely the rules force submitters into anything.
No one running a contest wants to be stuck with a bunch of sub-par novels that can never be sold.

>>22052043
I follow.
>>22052639
But were your words of a nectar-ly nature?
>>22052623
You forgot to add; keep your themes YA focused.
>>22050804
>>22050834
>>22050844
>>22050863
Seek immediate psychiatric assistance.

if I'm writing a piece of historical fiction that centers on mythological/supernatural figures, how essential is it that I use the exact terminology from that time period, as opposed to just "armor, helmet etc"
is it better if I use generic terms like that, and then describe their appearance and function, or is it better if I simply use their correct names and let the reader look into it if they're interesting, since it isn't exactly relevant to whats happening? or something else

>>22052709
If you baffle your reader with terminology, they'll likely drop your work.

>>22052736
my concern is that using generic terms fails to paint a detailed picture in their head, but going ham on descriptions could be problematic too
I guess the obvious answer is to only describe whats necessary? but skimming over everything that isn't integral to the plot seems boring to me.

>>22052750
You could always allow the action to fill in the details.
For instance, first describe it as a helmet.
Then have another character ask about it, but using the mysterious fancy term.
The wearer then does something like tap on the helmet with their fist and answer the question.
Seriously...a solution isn't that difficult to come up with.

>>22052792
that all seems so obvious though
its like they're talking knowing theres a 4th wall

>>22052800
Then revise that in your next draft.
It's better than just being paralyzed with writer's block.

>posting in the AI troll's thread
>>22050831
>>22050831
>>22050831
Migrate

>>22052809
I bet it's just AI spammer samefagging honestly. Note they only started posting once the other thread became more active

>>22052822
I'm posting in both threads. I'm neither prejudiced nor insecure.

>>22052828
that’s for me to judge

>>22052709
Being able to solve problems like this is a basic skill for historical. If you can't think of how to make it apparent by context that you're describing a helmet, no one here can help you.

Just do it, and if you aren't a retard you can figure it out.

>>22052839
I do not submit to your judgment, and you are arrogant for assuming you're in a position to judge anyone.
You're a bully at heart.
And you won't take me up on my writing challenge, posed in >>22052802 .
No talent for improv, I take it?

In the past I was vehemently opposed to an internet license
Now though? Now I regret I didn't push for such measures sooner.

Now for the rundown:
>Another chapter to backlog pile.
>Dinner delicious
>Anti-AI-fag still schizoing
I guess its fappan time!

>>22052709
>how essential is it that I use the exact terminology
What is the terminology that you're using? Like specific names of items belonging to mythological figures (e.g. mjollnir)? Or are you looking to use specific historical terms for generic items (e.g. hauberk, caliver, etc.)?
If its the former, consider just translating their name to english (or whatever language you're writing in) and modifying it so it makes sense. If you're writing a story that has a norse aptergangr, you would translate it to english to get after-walker, and then modify it from there to something like death-walker to make the meaning more apparent.
If its the latter, describe the generic object in action such that there can be no doubt as to what it is.
>a flaming ball of lead exploded out of the muzzle of the arquebus, rapidly hurtling towards its target

so why shouldnt a novel be written as 10 short stories

Hello everyone.
Im back with something short and melancholy.
Hope you like it.

micz.substack.com/p/something-more-to-this

I think I have such a retarded way or writing. I think of something that sounds cool then work the rest of the paragraph around that one bit. I think of these words as being brown like mud, they don't matter and only serve to get to the green sentence that I want to write.

>>22053361
The opening and ending stand out as being so much better than everything else. Also I don't like the format, you should split it two, otherwise people just get lost. But I do really like the aesthetic makes it look different from other things on the site.

Not sure it's my thing but good try overall, much better than I expected.

>>22053361
Hello anon.
Glad to still see you around

>>22053361
i don't know much about poems, so please disregard:
the imagery doesn't feel that personal or moving. nor is is that clear. and i find the implication of its significance though just being mentioned is not enough. almost a 4th wall breaking assumption, for this medium-- whether including a (less subtle?) metaphor or straight simile might have helped me understand, i do not know.

>>22053361
>>22053486
more critique for you to disregard:
i believe that if you are serious about your poetry, you shouldn't include (actual) images alongside-- unless it's something you consciously want to 'rely' on, or build around.

>>22053361
I've asked this before but this time more then ever.
Anon are you depressed?

>>22053361
you have the right idea. It was originally split as i was worried a block of text might be off putting to some people.
Still im happy to have exceed your (admittedly modest) expectations .

>>22053455
Hullo! Another 2 weeks another poem.
How time flies.

>>22053486
>>22053500
For what it's worth you got the implications just about right. It's about there not being anything more to this. Just 'common details' .
The only meta suggestion is that even without the transcendent these minute particulars are worthwhile and can be elevated by being gathered together in a good poem.
Which i gather you dont think it is.

but thank you for reading and for taking it seriously regardless .

>>22053501
Honestly no.
Don't be concerned.

>>22053255
A novel can be written as separate short stories, but they have to mesh together in a way that separate short stories normally don't.

any decent writer youtubers to listen to? not the 'how-to' or '10 ways to' list tubers. and not 4channers either, i follow (our guys) already

>>22049512
should i post it?

>>22052809
I never understood why every board hates generals until this very thread. Its because inevitably they are taken over by megalomaniacs and there is no relevant topic discussion, only middle school tier shit flinging and trying to get more of the group to go along with someone as opposed to another.

>>22054279
Be the change you wish to see here.

>>22054279
Generals are "containment threads".
Otherwise, this crap would flow like sewage over the entire board.
For instance, it seems /wwoym/ is mostly for depressive whining.

>>22053534
>Still im happy to have exceed your (admittedly modest) expectations .

No I liked it, just surprised me because this stuff is usually not for me. Keep doing what you were doing, best compliment I can give is that you wrote something I liked in a genre I despise.

How do I gently dismiss unprompted rewrites by people who write poorly without ruining my relationship with them?

>>22054811
'some great ideas, i'll try to incorporate some of this'

>>22054811
Also, "I just think we have different voices."

>>22054931
This got someone really upset

>>22055079
Really? Dang. That was the most neutral statement I could come up with.
Maybe you're just dealing with a very toxic person?

>Working title of book is Dateless
>Get some crit on it
>"Bro, why do your chapters start with dates?"
Fucking normie

>>22055181
well? Why do they have dates aside from it being ironic given your title

>>22055194
Because the book is part of a series with overlapping events. They're sequential as far as the main character is concerned, but there are things occuring in earlier books that are investigations in later books, so a precise timeline is important.

Admittedly, given my apparent preference to set scenes in the middle of the night, it can be a bit confusing when precisely midnight happens.

The title isn't about calendar dates though.

>>22055085
Yeah my response to the rewrite was pretty much >>22054884
>'some great ideas, i'll try to incorporate some of this'
And this person said "you don't have to, I rewrote it already". I said the rewrite was good but it wasn't my style and I didn't personally feel it, and he got mad because I was acting "dismissive" and "defensive" of my writing which was "incorrect". I do have a tendency to act defensive about my work so I apologized if I came across that way, but I really appreciated the feedback and I just wanted to incorporate his advice in my own way. He kept being upset and told me to never ask for feedback on writing again. I didn't mind this but I felt there was a sharp change in the way he talked to me afterwards, so I decided to cut myself off.

>>22055248
>"you don't have to, I rewrote it already"
what a disgusting human being

>>22055282
I'm 100% sure he was acting in good faith. He's a nice person. He'd praised my writing before and when he got so mad I was caught completely off-guard because it was so strange. I even thought it could've been that he was making an excuse to get rid of me.

(because I'm a huge psychotic cunt and everyone who hangs around with me is tolerating my shit behavior)

>>22053361
I've read it over and over again about six times and I just don't like it. Sorry, I can see that it's actually well made and thought through, but something about it just doesn't gel with me.
I will keep an eye on you in the future though, don't let me discourage you.

>>22049919
As long as AIniggers infest this place I'll never post a thing.

>>22055337
another small win for jim

>>22055369
Why is it a win? It's a loss for this community.

>>22053234
>Or are you looking to use specific historical terms for generic items (e.g. hauberk, caliver, etc.)?
this one yeah
thank you bro

>>22055248
Sounds like you dodged a bullet.
Some people only like others if they can be dominant.
Such people are bullies and sociopaths.

>>22055412
I don't really know what to make of it. We've had this kind of struggle before and I responded aggressively to it, and he was chill about it, but this time I was the one being chill yet he reacted like this. Maybe he just ran out of patience or whatever. Either way I think the relationship was ruined.

>>22055337
As long as antiAIfags exist, I post.
I will make a poem just for them.
ETA: less then 48hrs

>>22055818
Yeah we all appreciate your heaps of vomit

>>22055836
pyw

>>22055384
One mans loss is anothers gain.
>>22054811
If they cannot handle hearing what effectively amounts to 'no' then i think you need new friends and or relatives.

man the guy running a study on anons and the shit poster are having a field day in the other thread. Instead of shit posting i:
>more editing done
>new fiction found
>new inspiration for side project
Some are gonna make it!

as for me, its past midnight and I procrastinated all day again

>>22057159

I sat down and wrote out a story concept I wasn't invested in and to my surprise I wrote ten pages in a sitting, the entire short story. I think a lot of writer's hesitancy is just fear of fucking up a story that matters to us. The solution may be to care less about what you write? Paradoxically?

>>22054249
>any decent writer youtubers to listen to?

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6jI5DqxxW73O7Einf38QghxpkWbn5emB

Tips for better dialogue? I struggle with it a lot.

>>22054249
>i follow (our guys) already
Hope you've been enjoying my content. Mishima vid is getting actual editing, so it's delayed.

>>22057496
absolutely, good stuff so far.

curious to see what you do w/ your editing. even if you're just doing it for jumpcuts, i think it might be worthwhile. and the processes might be fairly quick when you're used to your workflow.

>>22054811
>How do I gently dismiss unprompted rewrites
"Fuck off retard"
>without ruining my relationship with them?
It was already ruined when they decided to insult your work. Don't be a bitch

>>22057529
I'm relatively comfortable with just doing continuous takes on vidoes that are about 10 minutes or so, but the discussion on Mishima sprawled to nearly an hour, so it's going to be an anomaly.

The quality of the videos would probably feel better if I tracked down clips from film adaptations of the books I'm discussing.

>27 years old
>haven't wrote much after graduating high school
please give me some examples of sucessful writers in this situation

>>22057933
Most authors only found success after they were middle aged.

>>22054249
This
https://youtube.com/@NovelistJerryJenkins

And some interviews and talks of Stephen King and Bradbury. Sanderson's lectures are great too

>>22057933
Start writing now and in a few years you'll be in a better situation

How do you actually build "a following"? people say social media, but WHICH, and HOW?

>>22049614
non-normie, could you please point me to your work?

>>22058376
If you're not a naturally sociable person, you'll probably not be able to build a social-media following.
And autists, like us, have another strike against us.
Having said that, I did better building a following on Reddit than anywhere else.
People are chattier there, and you can reply to all the comments they post about your fiction.

>>22058424
You can look at the author list in the OP pastebin.
There's another good list of us here:
https://lampbylit.com/magazine/authors/

Seems like everyone is writing personal finance books and that makes money. As far as I know they just regurgitate the same information 30+ times then attack the education system.

>>22058376
be a woman or a rich American man

>reread the old query package (letter, synopsis etc) from 6 months ago
>lousy, clunky phrasing and autistic dwelling on details that dont' matter
>rewrote it
>already rewrote it 4+ times before
>worried in 6 months i'll look at this and go, "no wonder I couldn't get an agent!"

when does it end

>>22058429
and it helps that reddit mods have a figurative gun to everyones heads forcing them to be nice

and everyone is thirsty for upvotes

>>22053361
Best thing posted in either thread.
you clearly know more about poetry then i do so im not sure i can give you any advice except to say i like it..

>>22059120
I think that's true of every social media site.

>>22059139
how is it true for this one

>>22059140
This is more of an antisocial media site.

>>22059149
as it should be

ah, /wg/. My friend.

Have you guys ever written fanfiction? be honest

>>22059140
Many anons want (you)’s

>>22059856
I'm writing fanfiction right now

>>22059856
does rewriting famous myths count? if so, yes.
I don't see anything wrong with fanfic 2bh, it just has a bad rep because people are terrible at it and need to use other creators ideas to make up for unoriginality. but it can come from a genuine place where you just want to do something cool with a IP that you love.

>>22059880
>does rewriting famous myths count?
yes. the Aeneid is fanfiction.

>let a friend read the start of my manuscript
>calls me up and starts screaming at me
>NOTHING IS HAPPENING. WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE. WHY SHOULD I CARE?
wtf am i supposed to do

>>22059947
Is he wrong though? If any piece of writing got such an angry response you can just brush it off as "lol, he just doesn't understand it"

>>22059947
we don't know if you're representing your friend accurately or not, but I'd just say to find someone more constructive to read it

>>22059856
I wrote several Simpsons scripts back in the day, hoping to break into Hollywood as a screenwriter.
I got a WGA-approved agent, but after that, nothing but form rejection letters.
So I ended up posting them on AO3.
>>22059947
Start with a bang!
One of the oldest rules in fiction.
Are you versed in the basics, or not?

>>22059957
I dont know what start with bang means
>>22059951
I dont know.
>>22059953
I dont know anyone else

>>22059957
>Start with a bang! One of the oldest rules in fiction. Are you versed in the basics, or not?
>do this
>people bitch about not getting enough "World Building"
>Characters aren't established so they don't give a fuck
>Needed to slow down the pace

Who do I listen to?!

>>22059976
This poster >>22059957 is literally the mentally ill boomer spamming AI all the time, so maybe take what he says with a grain of salt

>>22059976
NTA, but it depends.
My story starts without a bang, just a farmer coming home from market and discovering a baby on the side of the road.
But, if I do a rewrite, a story which is effectively an adaptation of a single story arc that skips past much of what is in the web novel, I intend to start with the siege of a city.

>so many different ways that I want to write a paragraph
>All irreconcilable because they all have different implications
does this happen to you guys?

>>22059973
stephen mcdaniel is that you

>>22059976
You're the Adah fag aren't you? You post the same shit in every thread. Your opening is bad because it's fucking boring. Forget everything else and figure out how to make the reader want to go from sentence to sentence. Give them a reason to keep reading whether by suspense, humor or aesthetic pleasure

>>22060047
>>22060357
im none of this
I dont understand what you guys mean

>>22059856
I always worked with original things but lately I started two fanworks. Not even for clout since I'm not publishing.

>>22059856
I'm writing some now. I'm addicted to this attention. I update one chapter a week and every time I get comment-cummies and some kudos. and i'm writing gen, not coom. the commenters are so nice and tell me I'm a great writer. it just feels so nice to be appreciated. fanfiction is also really easy and fun to write.

>>22059856
When i start to write fanfiction is when i quit writing altogether. Its not that there are not good ones out there but for me personally, it would mean i've become so creatively bankrupt i would no longer even try to hide an attempt a plagiarism.

>>22060819
>tries to be so pompous that he misses the point

>>22059973
https://www.google.com/search?q=start+with+a+bang

>>22059985
That's quite an epic ad-hominem attack you've got there.
Too bad that isn't a good thing.
Your constant insecure, paranoid, schizo seething makes you look like the mentally ill one, frankly.
Also...you forgot to include any advice for the anon. You have some advice for >>22059947 , don't you?

>>22060869
My start feels bangy to me

>>22060854
I'm eating Belgian choc chip muffins, i don't know what you mean.

My advice is take the advice of mentally ill newfag boomers with a grain of salt. I think that's quite sound if you ask me

Today i write!

>>22060922
I'm unconcerned with your opinions.
You come across as REALLY high-strung.
I expect you to burn out relatively quickly.
And I obviously meant USEFUL advice, directed at the anon's writing situation, not simply more ad-hominem attacks.
Seriously, a middle-school debate team would run rings around you.

>>22060478
Just know everything is subjective. World building is fun for some, action starts are fun for others, a huge exposition about a character is good for others.

It really depends. So this fag>>22060357
wants some random ass mystery like finding a giant piece of shit on the dining room table, while this other fag's friend >>22059947 BING BING WAHOO sword smashing action sequence, and this fag (me) wants huge titties in a shower sequence.

“Chapter 1 : The Diamond Dozen”

Light from a candle flickered in the middle of the room. Shadows of umbrous figures stretched throughout— cloaks masked their eyes. Each placed their hands on a rounded table made for twelve. Walls of earthen material surrounded them. Hidden underneath the Earth, the cover of darkness assisted twelve shadowy members slither away from curious eyes. The only sound heard was slight breaths. The door swung open, revealing a silhouetted figure — an outline only made due to the light from the hall beyond. He reached out his hand. The lights turned on.
“Why are you all sitting in the dark?”
“We were waiting for you Number 1.”
“That doesn’t answer the question Number 5,” Number 1 said. “Anyways, I am sure you are all wondering why I called you all in today.”
“It’s Number 8’s birthday! Happy birthday Number 8!” yelled out Number 3.
“Shucks… you guys shouldn’t have,” Number 8 said.
The other eleven members gushed and wished Number 8 a wonderful day. They asked him about his plans, how he was going to celebrate, and to make wishes upon wishes underneath the stars. The chatters and gossip continued, each bringing a present to Number 8. Number 8 smiled from ear to ear, receiving ten wonderful presents from the others. The other members looked at Number 1, who did not have a gift.
“No. I completely forgot, but Happy Birthday Number 8,” said Number 1.
“Oh…” Number 8 sulked.
“Number 1! How can you forget?” asked Number 2. “You owe Number 8 the most wonderful gift. Yes you do.”
The others agreed with Number 2. They pestered Number 1 to at least apologize to Number 8. The words from the others tried to console Number 8. Number 3 made the point that Number 1 was the eldest of them all and the leader. It was shameful for him to forget Number 8’s birthday.
“Hush! All of you!” Number 1’s voice rose. His face scrunched together — agitated. The might in his voice restored order and returned to the meeting’s agenda. “This is business! Not a time for celebration! We can celebrate Number 8’s birthday alongside Number 4 in two weeks!”
“But today is Number 8’s special day. I want my own,” protested Number 4. “And how come you can remember mine but not his?”
“Quiet! My word is final! Forget about your birthdays for once. We have much more pressing matters.” Number 1 slammed his fists onto the table. It echoed around the room, silencing the others into obedience. Number 1 scanned the room. A bead of sweat formed, forming a small puddle on the table. He took another deep breath. The others stayed silent. Finally, Number 1 spoke. “The world order is in danger! The current reign of cats and dogs is under threat. The Dogs currently want to create a Doggy Dog World, and lock The Cats in the catbox!”

>>22061098
“Are you sure Number 1? That sounds completely preposterous!” Number 3 said. “Shouldn’t we throw the causes into the wind first?”

“Certainly, and my team has confirmed it. They took the grains of salt in their mouths and delivered it to me directly. The Cats have pleaded for our assistance. We will not stand idly by and pray on the back of the wall.”
“What do you suggest we do?” asked Number 5.

“Can we celebrate my birthday after the meeting?” interrupted Number 8.

Number 1 paused. His fingers curled around the long beard under his chin. It was itchy. He scanned the room, locking eyes with the other eleven members of The Diamond Dozen. A heavy sigh, but steeled nerves, Number 1 waited. He was contemplating his words before he spoke again.

“Do we even know the specifics concerning their plans for a Doggy Dog World?” asked Number 7.

“Yes we do. The Dogs' plan to dress in sheep’s clothing, cry, bark, not bite, and ultimately, ensure every dog has its day,” said Number 12.

The room turned silent. Number 7 shook his head. The world was in grave danger indeed. If every dog has its day, there won’t be a day for anyone else. Dogs will dominate every single waking moment in everyone’s life. Pictures of dogs would be plastered across the spectrum over the internet, people will mistake dogs to be babies, and worst of all — the very worst — it would be a three dog night.

“We — We are to split into teams of two. We are to gather our allies and thwart any attempts of domination from the Dogs. I have information on their plans and bases around the world,” said Number 1.

“Can we choose our teammate?” asked Number 2. “I want to be with Number 3!”

“I would love that Number 2! We’ll make such a wonderful team!”

“No!” Number 1 ordered. “I will be making the teams for you. You will all be paired with another that best matches with the skills you have. Number 2, you’ll be with Number 11. Number 3, you’ll be with Number 10. 4, you’re with 9, 5 with 8, and 6 you’re with 7. Number 12, you will be with me.”

“You just paired us opposite of each other!” said Number 4.

“Number 1! I don’t want to be with Number 3! She can’t even snatch Moorflys with money and fingers!” complained Number 10.

“Number 10 Remember the last time you lost your marbles? We spent five weeks trying to find them and we still couldn’t find them all!”

“You’re the idiot that thought you could carve marble!” Number 10 said.

“...” Number 6 looked at Number 9.
“...” Number 9 looked at Number 6.

Tears rolled down both their faces. They two were never apart, but due to Number 1’s orders, for the first time Number 6 and Number 9, will be apart — for more than seventy hours. Protests erupted from the group. Number 1 was visually annoyed, gritting his teeth at the constant insubordination.

>>22061099
He raised his hands into the air and screamed so loud at the other eleven that their hair blew back like a new broom that can clean. Number 1 panted trying to catch his breath. Number 12 spoke up for her partner.

“Number 1, do get your anger out of your hand. It’s not worth the pain and bane. Let me hand you out your missions,” said Number 12. She handed out briefings and missions to each team.

“Inside, you will find your mission. Each mission is crucial in stopping The Dogs from being able to initiate their plans. You are all to be as incognito as possible. Do not share your mission or its success or failure even with the other teams. You are only to report to Number 1 or myself. Any questions?”

“I have a question, how long do we have?” asked Number 10.

“From The Cats’ estimates, we have about a month. This is why this is of utmost importance. There are reports that a few cats have been locked inside the catbox already,” said Number 12, "so it's important we make haste and not waste."

“Devious…” said Number 7, “The Dogs mean to waste The Cats of their nine lives. Locking them away, to rot and fade away. It’s a simple, but highly effective plan.”

The Diamond Dozen reflected on their mission. The stakes were high, and to save the world, nothing could hinder them. There must be one outcome — success.

“Let us all complete it to the best of our duties. The Dogs want to rule the world, and it is up to us The Diamond Dozen to stop their vile plot from making this wonderful place a Doggy Dog World. Number 7, please call Ita Day. We’re going to need some assistance.” ordered Number 1.

>>22053361
Hey anon, i really liked it , can i ask you a few questions.

Does it take you two weeks to write these out, do yo have them pre prepared? Because i either write something of dubious quality overnight or i spend month's improving a poem i know is good but just isnt there yet.
Also how much time to you take on each? Again, quick and overnight, or slowly little by little.

But nice stuff regardless.

>>22061098
>Shadows of umbrous figures stretched throughout— cloaks masked their eyes.
If they are umbrous are they not already shadowy?

>revealing a silhouetted figure — an outline only made due to the light from the hall beyond. He reached out his hand. The lights turned on.
Fixated with light much much.

>“We were waiting for you Number 1.” “That doesn’t answer the question Number 5,” Number 1 said. “Anyways, I am sure you are all wondering why I called you all in today.” “It’s Number 8’s birthday! Happy birthday Number 8!” yelled out Number 3. “Shucks… you guys shouldn’t have,” Number 8 said. The other eleven members gushed and wished Number 8
Feels like I just entered a bad reservoir dogs rip off. Dialogue also becomes word spaghetti.

>>22061099
Spacing much better and dialogue better paced. But again with the bingo hall numbers!

>>22061103
Same again.

Keep in mind i'm not very good at writing so if i can see this much then i hate to think what this looks like to editor anon. Do not let my drivel dissuade you from posting in the future.

>>22060893
Evidently your friend didn't.
Want to summarize your beginning here?

>>22061550
>bingo hall numbers
What does this mean? Their names?

>>22060819
Plagiarism is definitely the wrong word

>>22062346
They're the "Diamond Dozen", so their names are numbers.
>>22062358
Homage

>>22062512
Still wrong in a different direction, but at least it assumes familiarity instead of assuming unfamiliarity

>>22055836
I ended up writing a couple of poems inspired in part by >>22053361
Problem is they are not very kind so it is probably best i do not post them and increase your level of emotional distress and decrease the already rock bottom morale levels of /wg/.
I hope you feel better.

>>22062358
>>22062512
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/plagiarism
>plagiarism - the process or practice of using another person's ideas or work and pretending that it is your own
potato potato. But it's not really morally incorrect unless you start making money off it.

>>22063338
The critical difference is that plagiarism only works if you don't know the original while fan fiction only works if you do know the original. They're like inverses. Somewhat different means, very different goals.
There are a few criticisms that apply to both but they tend to be circumstantial, not universal.

If you don’t read, don’t write. Simple as that.

Why yes i read AND write, how could you tell?

>>22064118
What do you like to read besides Lovecraftian horror?

>>22064122
Not him, but I'm reading The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt, and it's interesting non-fiction stuff but I'm increasingly worried that it will essentially be worthless for my writing.

my writing is not very good so i'm making my book as long as possible to hopefully trick people into thinking it's high art. i'm aiming for at least 1300 pages

>>22064139
Do you expect the trickees to read it or only to be intimidated by it and admire it from a distance?

>>22063378
>same same but different
I feel like your just splitting hairs at this point, but i can see the merits of your argument. However my main points about intellectual property and monetization still hold true. If you are profiteering off of others original ideas its not only creatively bankrupt but straight up theft.

>>22064118
What a desperate bump

>no readers
so I should what, whore myself out self-promoting on r****?

>>22064122
Any sci-fi or fantasy with an actual point. Historical drama and or fiction done well.
Occasional biography.
Used to enjoy detective who-done-it's and westerns but the formulas are just so overdone i don't anymore.
Can't into romance unless its a side/sub plot.
What about you?

New thread
>>22063831
>>22063831
>>22063831
>>22063831

>>22064170
The real question is; How much do you hate yourself?

>>22064151
>If you are profiteering off of others original ideas
You need to get more precise than that, everybody uses other people's ideas all the time. Your favorite book surely draws inspiration from dozens of sources.
In practice whether something is considered fan fiction seems to have little to do with originality and everything with whether it's official-looking. It may be governed by copyright but it's more similar to trademarks in spirit.
Fifty Shades of Grey is a nice case study because it's a Twilight fanfic with the names filed off, yet before the names were removed it was already unrecognizable. I haven't read it but it seems that it aged the characters up and removed all supernatural traits and moved them to a business setting and tweaked personalities to make it fit. What's even left at that point? Only a few things:
- The names of the characters. But those are unremarkable.
- Some vague tinge of the original personalities and dynamics. But those have been done thousands of times, Stephanie Meyer didn't invent them.
- The idea that you are in some metaphysical sense reading about the Twilight characters.
That last one is both the appeal and the problem. I believe this particular kind of fan fiction is written and read because the characters have taken up residence in people's minds and are thought about as Real People and so the mere labels and vague resemblance is enough to get people going. (Remember, this Twilight fanfic didn't have vampires, and that's not even uncommon! There's honest-to-god Pokémon fan fiction without Pokémon. People are willing to drift very far.)
And this is also where people start objecting to fan fiction. If you look carefully at what's considered okay and not okay it's about control, about the idea that these characters have some sort of Platonic existence that must be protected. It's not so much about original ideas and lack of creativity.
Fifty Shades became okay the moment it replaced the names. That was the actual border. Not any of Twilight's other ideas, most of those got ditched long before and many could have been kept without trouble. It was just the formal connection. That's what mattered.
That's weird, right?

>>22064176
Lately I'm kind of drifting without a comfortable niche. But two authors I particularly like are Nabokov and Greg Egan.
>with an actual point
Yeah, I need something to chew on.
Ideally I should be a little confused most of the time.

>>22064183
>>22052809
>>22050804
>>22050834
Seek psychiatric assistance.

>>22064170
> whore myself out
It's called advertising and every successful self-published author has had to do it in one form or another. Even trad published authors do it by touring.

Other thread is full of samefag histrionic denialists and gardener posting. I think I'll stay right here thank you.
>>22064600
>Lots of people whore themselves out.
That does not magically make it un-whoring.
>>22064388
That's getting into copyright territory though which after a certain point becomes legal mumbo jumbo and prescident rather then coherent argument.

how do people write entire novels i write one sentence a day and some days i just revise the previous days sentence

>>22064898
Some of them have no life, some of the are ex journalist who literally trained to write opinionated drivel. Others just keep their prose simple and flow of consciousness it. Some stick to history if they lack creativity and just sit in a library for a bit and write between copy and pasted excerpts. Many write smut because women read more books then men.

The latest generation of authors stick to simplistic tropes like time loop, cultivation, lit-rpg, regression fantasy so they create a scientific inexplicable setting and autistically stick to it. Yet more still write fanfiction because they cant think of an interesting setting of their own.

There are many ways to quickly become an 'author' but a method to put out consistent work is to draft then edit edit edit. Trying to get it right one sentence at a time is like sticking your dick in an active blender then throwing in a lemon.

>>22064475
Especially since psychiatrists can't help anyone & will just turn his brain into pudding.

Why, yes, I have written 2,000 words today.

>>22065133
kek hopefully one will find him sooner rather then later.
>>22065196
Damn you, you smug sonova bitch!
>I'm stuck in editing hell

>>22065458
Same here. I spent my day editing what I wrote very early in the morning before I slept. Monster of a 4600 word chapter that I condensed into just under 4000. That and I was watching my nieces and nephews which made actually writing anything new a bit hard.

>>22064779
Most of my post is not about legality.

>>22065541
My bad, your post started out all copyright but was long and once you started in on fifty shades i lost interest.

Now i've read ALL of it i get you a referencing fictions extracting characters and isolating them from their source material like how a lot of people rip off mythology all the time. But still comes back to those characters being in copyright because they are recent pop culture creations. Otherwise you are just cloning a character archetype when you change their names like a 'strong independent woman' or a 'crippled beta cuck male'.

>>22065596
I guess my main points are:
- Fan fiction can be surprisingly unconnected to creative laziness. Extracting characters is a stark example but some additive fan fiction is still chock-full of original ideas and characters, enough to fill a detached work.
- "Other people's original ideas" is just unworkably broad, everyone uses those.
- Surface-level veneer like names seems to be the intuitive line for most people, not just a legal line. Copying broad strokes with a different coat of paint might get you called a ripoff but not a thief. (Maybe your intuitions don't match most other people's, though.)
Of course most of this is only interesting if you want to analyze fan fiction (and why would you), and all you originally said was that for you personally writing fan fiction would feel like throwing in the towel. So everything I'm saying is kind of bullshit nitpicking.

>>22065912
Fanfiction takes unique skills. It's actually pretty hard to mimic how a character is written, down to their speech patterns etc., to nail the same atmosphere and pacing. While a lot of people disparage it, fanfiction is basically commercial writing. So the big $$$ who get paid to write for existing TV shows, movies etc? They are essentially just fanfiction writers. There are shitty lazy fanfiction writers, who are extremely prolific, because they are literal high school children with no job or life. But a lot of older fans are great writers, and many professional authors dabbled in fanfiction. Something like the Arthurian legends? That's fanfiction, 100%, written by different writers in different centuries because they love the franchise.

>>22066553
>Fanfiction takes unique skills. It's actually pretty hard to mimic how a character is written, down to their speech patterns etc., to nail the same atmosphere and pacing.
Agreed. All of that is technically optional depending on what you're going for, but I do take great pains to get speech right in my work (and I've gotten complimented for it).
>While a lot of people disparage it, fanfiction is basically commercial writing. So the big $$$ who get paid to write for existing TV shows, movies etc? They are essentially just fanfiction writers.
This does depend on the definition you pick. In descending specificity:
1. Fan fiction as a specific cultural tradition
2. Fiction written by fans
3. Fiction building on top of an existing work ("transformative works")
3 applies to these cases, 2 often applies and differs per franchise, 1 almost never applies.
2 can arguably be harmful, I've for example seen complaints that Star Trek's own fans running the writer's room makes it worse. It's a different kind of engagement.
Most of Alan Moore's oeuvre is fan fiction by some reasonable definition, and a lot of it's really good.
>Something like the Arthurian legends? That's fanfiction, 100%, written by different writers in different centuries because they love the franchise.
I wouldn't say 100%. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think they had a strong canon, let alone a ""franchise"". A fixed authoritative canon is really important to the way this stuff functions.
The Iliad and the Odyssey did seem to gain an authoritative quality once they were written down. So you can find ancient Greek sources arguing about What Homer Really Meant, sometimes eerily similar to modern fandom discussion, and it'd be reasonable to call the Aeneid fan fiction.

>>22053421
Nah. That's normal. Many prolific writers didn't spend hours on crafting the perfect multi-layered poetic well-paced sentence. They just kept writing and getting a little better as they went. Same with any art really. There are the perfectionist architects out there, but will the average person even notice?

>>22066741
>will the average person even notice?
They don't notice, but their brain does. They'll like it more without being able to point out why.
Of course you still have to find the right balance between investment and payoff.

>>22053255
Wasn't the foundation series largely written as short stories before being compiled?

>>22066813
It was but a lot of stuff back then was serialised to fit in the magazines which were one of the main markets for such fiction.

The autistic fighting between the two /wg
Is peak lit

>>22053361
By far the best thing in this thread, thought I like that friendship poem you posted a while back more.
IMO if you're going to post an excerpt of your writing and it's 60 page long, full of misspellings and badly formatted then don't be surprised nobody reads it. I'd much rather read 16 lines that had some actual fucking thought behind them.
Peace!

>>22065912
In my experience, fanfiction starts with an existing set of characters, their world, etc. and then goes completely off the reservation.
I struggle to think of anything I've seen on AO3 that gave me the impression it had any place aside the original work.
Which is fine.
In the end, anything you write, at the very least, is a writing exercise, so it's not a waste of time.
And who knows, you may get some fans!

If you like writing then come join the new official &amp magazine discord server! https://discord.gg/SJrgZJtz4E

>>22068968

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voAJSSW5tS4

it's over for us. None of us know how to advertise our books

I played a lot o (MMO)RPGs
what bothers me is that the weapons are always 99% the same across genres, companies, even across regions.

So I wrote a fictional encyclopedia on fantasy weapons in a made up universe.
I dont want to brag but at least 80% of them use concepts you (almost or) never see in fantasy games.


There's bows, any type of melee weapon you can think of, and staves. Especially the saves and bows are unique because these are often incredibly underdone in videogames.


I hope I can get it published. Even have art work for all the weapons. Best case scenario people start stealing the ideas and videogame weapons become more original

>>22066553
>Fanfiction takes unique skills. It's actually pretty hard to mimic how a character is written, down to their speech patterns etc., to nail the same atmosphere and pacing.
I get that i do. But if you are that creatively gifted you should not need to try and appropriate an existing fanbase while playing chicken with copyright laws.
>So the big $$$ who get paid to write for existing TV shows, movies etc? They are essentially just fanfiction writers.
Yeah the only difference being they are doing it (in the majority of cases) with express legal permission from the original creators or their estates.
>Something like the Arthurian legends? That's fanfiction.
100% agree. Anything with King Arthur/Merlin/Morgana/Thor/Loki/The Demon Lord/Hades/Odin/Freya/Yggdrasil/The River styx/The Titans/Achilles/Gilgamesh/The Holy Grail/Dragons...ect... in its world lore instantly looses big points with me. It's not that i do not respect or like those mythologies in their original settings but if an author tries to appropriate them into their own work it reeks of laziness.
>>22065912
>all you originally said was that for you personally writing fan fiction would feel like throwing in the towel. So everything I'm saying is kind of bullshit nitpicking.
Yeah but this is an evolving conversation containing differing opinions and ideas. Besides, it would be exceptionally boring if you agreed with all my opinions. So thank you.

>5.4 average sentence length
I'm never going to make it.

>>22069044
>AI slop

>>22069044
>not need to try and appropriate an existing fanbase while playing chicken with copyright laws.
Does it escape you that one might do such for pleasure alone, and never attempt to commodify it?

>>22069016
0.00: Mutual ball-licking
2.35: Advice for other writers:
• "Find your audience". No shit.
• "Make your book visible." No shit.
• "Get all the details right." No shit.
11.35:
• "If your book sells well, Amazon will shill it more." No shit.
• "Advertise heavily...4 or 5 figures per month." How the hell does one afford THAT?
17.40:
• "Twitter ads are useless." Thanks for the warning.
• "Facebook ads work well." I'm not on Facebook. Is anyone here?
• "Reddit, Bing, Google are also useless."
• "Newsletter swaps with other authors." So, be an extrovert.
• "You don't get word of mouth until you've moved 50k-75k books." Good Lord. I'm still trying to break 2 dozen.
22.00:
• "Running ads on preorder was a complete waste of time." Thanks for the warning. Whatever that means.
• The interviewer's books sell, but his channel has ~3000 videos, each 30-60 minutes.
26.20:
• He plays a lot of video games in his genre, i.e. fantasy.
• "Will Wight's progression fantasy went to #1 on Kindle." So, be a total normie.
• The interviewer got a lot of attention for one of his books when it got misclassified as "military fantasy". If only that had worked well for Charles Dearmore's "Son Of The Sun".

Not sure if I can make any use of any of this advice.
Feel free to watch it & make a better summary.

>>22069064
Go seethe in your own thread, brainlet seether.

I'm putting nonconsensual sex in my story. idgaf anymore.

>stalk everyone who bookmarks me
>most are typical users, but not this one
>has literally 14,000 bookmarks
is it even humanly possible to read 14,000 stories?

>>22069241
You're asking a board filled with jobless NEETs whether that's possible? Really?

>>22069241
On AO3 some people bookmark things they want to read later

>>22069078
>Does it escape you
Sometimes. Time is a precious thing, at least to my mind, and i legit can't fathom why someone would spend so much time and effort on something that can't rightfully claim as their own, let alone commodify. i know, i'm autistic.
>>22069154
As long as they are above age of consent is this really such a risque thing these days?
>>22069064
>picture related

>>22069044
>if you are that creatively gifted you should not need to try and appropriate an existing fanbase while playing chicken with copyright laws.
But what if I want to?
Any creatively gifted person should be capable of (say) writing a story without romance. But that's no reason not to write it. You can make up arbitrary restrictions all you want.
>100% agree. Anything with King Arthur/Merlin/Morgana/Thor/Loki/The Demon Lord/Hades/Odin/Freya/Yggdrasil/The River styx/The Titans/Achilles/Gilgamesh/The Holy Grail/Dragons...ect... in its world lore instantly looses big points with me. It's not that i do not respect or like those mythologies in their original settings but if an author tries to appropriate them into their own work it reeks of laziness.
That's not what they were saying though. They were saying that those were already fan fiction back in the 14th century or whenever.
Was it laziness for Geoffrey of Monmouth to write his Vita Merlini about existing legendary wizard Merlin rather than make up a new wizard?

>>22069634
>But what if I want to?
You can by all means, I'm not saying that such works are not allowed to exist, just why i don't find them inspiring.
>You can make up arbitrary restrictions all you want.
Not sure if trolling...Is it really arbitrary or too much of a litmus test to expect an author to create something as opposed to copy paste from someone else? Then again >>22069027
I find what this anon is too daunting and autistic even for me.
>Was it laziness for Geoffrey of Monmouth to write his Vita Merlini about existing legendary wizard Merlin rather than make up a new wizard?
Yes.

>>22069563
>Time is a precious thing, at least to my mind, and i legit can't fathom why someone would spend so much time and effort on something that can't rightfully claim as their own, let alone commodify.
In the moral sense I'm pretty comfortable seeing my fan fiction as my own. (Even in the legal sense I do retain copyright of my own work, AIUI. It's complicated.)
Trying to sell my writing seems like a good way to get fewer readers and torture myself with marketing so I don't want to try that regardless. I have a cushy day job. If I blunder into extreme popularity I might reconsider but making money from art is a crapshoot.

>>22069672
>copy paste from someone else
But that's not what most fan fiction does, or why it's written! I already wrote quite a bit about this.
>Yes.
So what is the version of Arthurian legend that you like and respect? Does it even exist?

>>22069044
>copyright laws
Trademark laws, technically.
But the flood of fanfic on AO3 belies your claim that the original creators do anything to stop fanfiction.

>>22070110
>Trademark laws, technically.
No, copyright is almost always the issue.
Trademarks are not irrelevant but they're more limited. As long as it'd be hard to mistake your work for an official one you're in the clear.

>1 handed sword
decent, powerful weapon
>2 handed sword
exponentially more powerful

so why isnt there a 3 handed sword?
what are the literary implications of this?

>>22070230
How's that weed?

>post on RR
>2000 views
>Break it down by chapter
>400 read chapter 1
>130 read chapter 2
>35 remaining by chapter 18
I have to admit there's a very loyal following

>>22070439
Just remember that many zoomers believe that they can judge an entire series within the first ten minutes of the first episode.

>>22070538
agents believe they can judge the entire book based on the first sentence of a three paragraph letter.

Tips for writing dialogue where one character is effectively an inanimate object? What I have is just a series of back-and-forth quote blocks that I feel would benefit from being broken up more by narrative text, but I'm not sure how I can accomplish that without describing the mc's emotions and actions more than I'm already doing, which might already be excessive.
Would rather not share my work, so I hope my description conveys my dilemma accurately.

>>22070713
Just to be clear—is the inanimate object talking back, or is the character basically monologuing?

>>22059856
I had 100% thought I had a chance at a meeting with Ridley Scott, so I outlined three seasons of a Blade Runner prequel TV series called BR2015 and focused on Deckard's niece and nephew in Wisconsin*. The first scene of the show was set in 2009, when Gaff and Deckard were still on uniformed patrol and they become the first police officers to encounter a rogue Replicant after it escapes a subcontractor's lab and goes on a rampage in Skid Row. Explains how Gaff gets his limp and sets up the denouement as well as basic themes and overarching plot, which would've concerned a handful of murdered Blade Runners in Milwaukee. Wraps up very neatly in LA 2019.

Lol, the nephew purchased a home pleasure model (played by Christina Hendricks) who won't fuck him and nearly breaks his arm, then they discover she has a penchant for sadism and he likes to receive after watching a squad of riot cops get torched on the nightly news (resulting from a longshoremen's riot at the Port of Milwaukee after a shipment of Replicants arrives to replace them). I didn't mean it all as coomerbait but they would've loved watching her strangle him.

*I'd even painted up Spinner models to look like police cars there.

>>22070863
The inanimate object is talking back.

>>22070439
sounds like chapter 1 and chapter 2 need major edits, desu

>>22071904
A lot of anons have reported this is a typical pattern on RR.
Most stories lose half their readers after the 1st chapter.

>>22069697
>In the moral sense I'm pretty comfortable seeing my fan fiction as my own.

>So what is the version of Arthurian legend that you like and respect?
Sauce: https://www.britannica.com/topic/King-Arthur
"Assumptions that a historical Arthur led Welsh resistance to the West Saxon advance from the middle Thames are based on a conflation of two early writers, the religious polemicist Gildas and the historian Nennius, and on the Annales Cambriae of the late 10th century. The 9th-century Historia Brittonum, traditionally attributed to Nennius, records 12 battles fought by Arthur against the Saxons, culminating in a victory at Mons Badonicus. The Arthurian section of this work, however, is from an undetermined source, possibly a poetic text."
I like that he was an actual person and i blame Welsh sheep fuckers for an early form of appropriation aka fanfiction.
"Early Welsh literature quickly made Arthur into a king of wonders and marvels. The 12th-century prose romance Culhwch and Olwen associated him with other heroes, and this conception of a heroic band with Arthur at its head doubtless led to the idea of Arthur’s court."
>But that's not what most fan fiction does, or why it's written!
The Welsh beg to differ.
>>22070230
Because it would requite a penis interface and thus be no longer YA accessible.

>>22072657
>>In the moral sense I'm pretty comfortable seeing my fan fiction as my own.
Woops! Meant to say that i congratulate you on the bravery of this as the possibility of having my work destroyed by some crab lawyer would eat at me..

>>22072566
you're retaining 1/3
that is much worse
the 2nd dropoff you're retaining 1/4 of those
that is significantly worse
time for some honest introspection and a serious comb through of those chapters

Why, yes, I have written 2,000 words today.

>>22072718
I think my problem is that my prose is far too difficult for the average RR reader, it does not help there aren't any statpoints or reincarnation going on either. Truly a conundrum. But then again trailer trash anon is did very well

>>22072920
>I am too le smart for those backwater slobs
shitting all over your potential readers says more about you than them
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say your hook is probably inadequate or your story is just boring.

How do I pad out dialogue? I know it's one thing to keep exchanges short and concise but I feel like my brevity is ruining a lot of otherwise decent scenes, like it goes by far too quickly.

>>22072956
boring is relative

>>22072981
read fitzgerald

>>22072956
Exactly. My genius is unrecognized. My word flows like the rivers, and sings like the wind.

>>22072991
certainly. and it may be a very interesting story - if the reader sticks it out some - but losing 90% of your readers by chapter 3 is alarming. which is what leads me to think the hook is seriously inadequate or the first two chapters have a disturbing lack of charm

wait, hold up, I was reading only 35 made it to chapter 3. 35 out of 400 made it to chapter 18. 10% making it to the end is okay. you still have a larger dropoff than you'd like in chapter 1, but forget what I was saying about all that doom and gloom. I'd still try and tighten up chapter 1 some. It's a super important chapter it needs to be slick.

Lord of the Rings has a shit opening. Bilbo needed to be swinging a sword at Gandalf.

>When Mr. Bilbo Baggins of Bag End announced that he would shortly be celebrating his eleventy-first birthday with a party of special magnificence, there was much talk and excitement in Hobbiton.

>modern opening
Bilbo tore down all the furnishings in his home. The lantern he obtained by years ago killing the wicked dragon shattered onto the floor. What did he care anymore? He wasn't going to be around to pick up the pieces. It was his eleventy-first birthday, and he'll be damned if he attended.

>>22073051
nailed it. i feel harassed and harried, like i can't take my time and form a nice story. all they want is edginess and instant gratification. hooks, high concepts (aka anime writing), women who curse and get violent, drama drama drama. i can't write a good product with these stipulations. so then my first chapter i'm always pressured and going insane trying to shovel enough into the first 5 pages (really the first 5 sentences) to entice these swine agents to keep off their twitter and keep reading.

for people who are just oh so god damned BUSY they sure do post on twitter a lot.

>>22073074
I'll be honest, I just wrote it out of frustration. What really gets me are all the the rhetorical questions these stories have. I don't get it. It's completely overused and doesn't add anything to the story itself.

>>22073051
Those two sentences don't even match. The first one is Bilbo telling everyone he has a party, the second one is him not wanting to attend the party.

>>22073051
nah you're wrong and tolkien did it right. the birthday gives an immediate goal for the story and in the very first line has some whimsy in the phrase eleventy-first birthday that immediately draws the reader in

>>22072679
There's really zero chance of that, unless I tried to make money off it, which as said before I don't want to do. (This is part of the definition of fair use, it's not just about making myself a target.)
My work is hosted by an organization with absolutist ideas about freedom of expression, a legal defense fund, and hard-won dedication to preservation. There's a good chance it'll still be around after I die. I'd be much more worried about entrusting my work to Amazon.

>>22072657
Right, so you don't actually like or respect Arthurian legend at all? That's kind of sad!
Consider that the only reason you know of him at all, and realistically 99% of what you brain has soaked up about him, is unrelated to any historical Arthur. How do you reconcile this with the idea that fan fiction is about copy/pasting?
It sounds like you don't like any of the surviving depictions of your list of mythological figures, not a single one. The Holy Grail is a particularly puzzling inclusion since it's pure bible fan fiction with no untainted incarnation.

>>22073305
>I'd be much more worried about entrusting my work to Amazon.
You an me both!
>Right, so you don't actually like or respect Arthurian legend at all?
Its more that the modern take on all mythology is a copy of a copy of a copy...ect...It becomes so derivative.
>The Holy Grail is a particularly puzzling inclusion since it's pure bible fan fiction with no untainted incarnation.
See above, but also throughout this conversation i have been doing a lot of thinking about how religion and its mythologies, not just the Judaeo-Christian stuff but all of it. And how the devil/god/budah/ganesh are also frequently refrenced if not outright appropriated in literature.

So now as a result i'm busy trying to quantify just how far my autism will remove points from works i used to like because by logical extension they are now plagiarists!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

>>22073349
>Its more that the modern take on all mythology is a copy of a copy of a copy...ect...It becomes so derivative.
Oh, for sure. But I chalk that up to artistic failure, not appropriation. You can be horribly uninspired without this kind of reuse, so theft is neither necessary nor sufficient to explain the malaise.
>So now as a result i'm busy trying to quantify just how far my autism will remove points from works i used to like because by logical extension they are now plagiarists!
I hope you'll decide it's zero!
It helps to think about why they're doing this. Say you have an idea about the sublime that you want to use in your fiction. You can either use a hundred pages to carefully craft your own godhead before getting to the good stuff, or you can use the one all your readers already know about. Usually the second one is a better use of your time, a better use of the reader's time, and more artistically powerful as well. So making use of it is just good sense.
(Not that building your own God can't be an interesting exercise. But I'm very glad not everybody does it as a matter of course, it would get tiresome.)
It's very hard to provide commentary if you first have to reconstruct the thing you're commenting on. There are worthwhile works of art that practically can't be made except as fan fiction.

I have appeased the pact.
2000 words given.
I've got to pick up my pace though, daily uploading means I've just barely got a single day of backlogged content after half a week of being stuck editing and rewriting a few chapters that just didn't work like I wanted.

>>22073523
Niceu! I can barely average 1k a day
>i just finished editing binge today
>now have 53 weeks of written content
>Hopefully will buy me enough time to finish the story.

>>22073004
Then don't be surprised if you work never finds an audience...or finds one long after you're dead.

>>22073004
So do mine but the AO3 teenagers eat it up
Would you be willing to link your work?

>>22073995
Work?

>>22074083
It's slang for opus = opium

>used to see a few excerpts posted that we can shit on
>Slowly see changes in other people's work posted
>Concepts to entire chapters
>After the discord dox drama
>Everything grinded to a screeching halt

Is the /wg/ literary movement dead?

>>22074168
give me a prompt and ill write something for you. im going to post it in the other general. fuck you for not letting this one die (fuck me too)

>>22073087
rhetorical questions are what midwits use to look highwit.

Would it be more creepy to describe Big Foot's eyes as demonic or slightly humanoid to give it that more of a missing link edge towards it. I feel like I should go into the eye description a little more

>>22074932
What would "demonic" mean? How would you describe "slightly humanoid" to drive it home?

>>22074932
no one wants to read your retarded story about bigfoot

>>22074168
People reduced the posting of their work since the anti-Ai tard started making threads early and samefag spamming everything he didn't "like". Who honestly wants to subject their work to a mind like that? e.g. >>22074932 he also tells people to kill them selves frequently in the other thread.

>>22073397
>I hope you'll decide it's zero!
Still thinking, too tired right now to get into it but later i plan to post a couple of examples of a couple of well known works and how i think they are lazy pseudo plagiarists (with actual reasons included).

>>22075355

Sometimes his eyes are described as demonic like red and glowing; other accounts say he has more of a neanderthall looking eyes

>>22073051

It's not bad but definietly takes a while to get into even though it sets the atmosphere of Hobbiton well but I think the second chapter I think where Gandalf is explaining stuff to Frodo and later Sam is better since that is where the real the real bulk of the story begins

>>22075857
you're not gonna convince anyone that you aren't the thread ruining schizo of this general

New Thread
>>22076051
>>22076051
>>22076051
>>22076051

>>22076247
Well, he wasn't. Go seethe more. Preferably in the seething thread, not here.

>he

>>22073397
Authors revisited
Lazy plagiarist #1: Jim Butcher's Dresden Universe

>While the majority Butchers other works provide original mythology and world building The Dresden files has benefited from none of these things. He not only wholesale copied Fae, Norse, Greek, Mayan, Transylvanian mythologies but also co-opted the judeo-christian struggle of good and evil into the mix. Further he sets the protagonists struggles in contemporary Chicago.

Lazy plagiarist #2: J.K Rowling Harry Potter Universe

>To say that all of the Harry Potter universe is unoriginal would be a lie. The characterization and lore behind her Wizards are unique in their own right however the rest of the worlds magical creatures are anything but. Each and every one has been appropriated from one well known fairy tale or another with little to no discernible change from their origin.

Starting to look at my boi Pratchett Not looking good

>>22077182
>plagiarism for including common myths and folklore
that is painting with a very broad brush. you may as well say that Rowling is guilty of plagiarism because her story takes place in Britain, generally, and she also includes specific geographical locations

>>22077182
I haven't read the Dresden Files.
Harry Potter is mediocre and incoherent but I will defend it for this (if you'd like to hear it).

But Pratchett? Pratchett! How was he supposed to write half of what he wrote without ""plagiarizing""?
The conceit of Discworld is to take well-known ideas that are already living in your head and flip them over to get a better look. It knows that you've seen these fantasy elements and stock characters and story templates and have certain expectations about them.
Take his dwarves. They play around with both stock Tolkienesque fantasy dwarves and certain hot-button political issues that I'm not going to spell out. How would any of it work if he made up a new fantasy race?
The way it operates is that he shows you a dwarf, and you think "ahh yes, a dwarf, I know that one. Male, bearded, lives underground, probably obsessed with minerals." And then he nods, and he says "kind of weird, right, how often you only really see bearded male dwarves?" and he gives you an interesting explanation spanning several books that only works because there's something to be explained, something that he didn't come up with.
If he made up his own fantasy race this would just be masturbation. It wouldn't be interesting to anyone else. There's no excitement in explaining a peculiarity you invented yourself.
It would be impossible to say the things he wanted to say without doing this. Do you think it's lazy to say them at all?

>>22077242
Yeah it was unfair of me to call out butcher for using Chicago, sorry. I don't have problems with setting appropriations per say but more copy pasting of things wholesale without at least making them the authors own.
>>22077376
Yes i would be interested in your Harry Potter defense. I still am more then a little alarmed at how much this logical extension of straight up appropriation is like pulling a thread on the sweater of my favorite works of fiction.

As for Pratchett Honestly had no issue with his satirical elements and word play because he does it so damn well but it is more that he doesn't attempt to change the fantasy races he appropriates to make them his own. e.g. witches/wizards/death/time/jack frost/father Christmas/vampires/trolls. It just comes across as lazy lore building.

>If he made up his own fantasy race this would just be masturbation. It wouldn't be interesting to anyone else. There's no excitement in explaining a peculiarity you invented yourself.

To me this is what made Tolkien's works so great, not his often stuffy dialogue and annoying characters but the creativity of his world and associated lore. Also, at least to me, what makes a great writer; Someone who creates a whole new world filled with characters and creatures you have never before experienced.

>>22077644
>Yes i would be interested in your Harry Potter defense.
This is Harry Potter's formula:
1. There's a secret parallel society where magic is real
2. This society works kind of like our own
Both of those steps gain from using existing folklore.
For 1, the essential fantasy is that the things you already knew about are real. It places it in the real world, makes it so that you can fantasize about getting your very own Hogwarts letter when you turn eleven. It gives you a deep immersion that couldn't be obtained any other way.
Step 2 is Rowling's greatest trick. She constantly puts magic in a familiar mold. Wizards have to be taught magic—which means they get homework. They make the homework on parchment with a quill—but nevertheless, the essay is due Thursday evening, and can you please help me, I need another two inches?
She says that well, if there WERE such a thing as a magic carpet, it'd probably get banned by the government to protect domestic industry. But that joke is impossible to make if you first have to laboriously construct your own Arabia. Because she uses existing folklore she can just say "magic carpet" and you immediately know "oh yeah, like Aladdin" and she can get on with the thing she wants to say. If she weren't able to do that she simply couldn't make the joke, it'd take ten times as long and be confusing rather than funny or interesting.
So it's not the difference between writing Harry Potter (lazy plagiarized version) and Harry Potter (creative original version). That second version of Harry Potter can't exist at all. The books are a reflection of our world, they play with things you already know, and you can't reflect our world if you build one from scratch.
>what makes a great writer; Someone who creates a whole new world filled with characters and creatures you have never before experienced.
This is just one of many things you can do with literature, and it's not an essential one. Notice how you did like all these writers. They must be doing something right!
It could help to expand your horizons. Sounds like you mostly read fantasy. Is that true? There's a lot more out there, and even the snobby stuff half this board likes to talk about can be very good, though it takes some getting used to.
>he doesn't attempt to change the fantasy races he appropriates to make them his own. e.g. witches/wizards/death/time/jack frost/father Christmas/vampires/trolls
He makes significant changes to all of them, but those changes only work because he's building on the shared base used by everyone.
I don't know what to say except to refer back to my explanation about dwarves. Can you reread that? What could he have done to satisfy your standards while still being able to make his points?
How could you say things about real-world Christmas without having a Christmas, or at least a Hogswatch?

There doesnt seem to be a poetry general right now, so I thought I could ask here as well:
What is some good english pastoralist or naturalist poetry to get into? Any common stylistic themes I should look out for?

>>22077182
Seems like normal practice.
Lately I've been getting inspired big-time from reading the Bible, as well as the book "Understanding World Religions: An Interdisciplinary Approach" by Irving Hexham.
Mythology is just religion that has fallen out of favor, anyway.

>>22075857
>>22077644
>AI slop

>>22079163
You just can't quit this thread, can you.

I wish to thank the anti-AI-seether for diverting so much of the garbage traffic to his /wg/ thread.

>>22080037
I think you mean all of the traffic. No one except you and, right now, me are posting here. 1 post per 5 hours.

>>22080259
I'm talking about over the last week, dullard.
You are an amazingly insecure pseud.

>>22077740
>This is Harry Potter's formula
>Step 1
I found it more impressive then step 2 that she constructs an accessible dream.
>Step 2
This is where i have trouble with appropriation of others characters or ideas for usage of lingua franca.
>If she weren't able to do that she simply couldn't make the joke, it'd take ten times as long and be confusing rather than funny or interesting.
No she could but she would have to be a less lazy writer to do it.

>Sounds like you mostly read fantasy. Is that true?
Read a lot of sci-fi (Peter F Hamilton, Ian. m Banks, Douglas Adams, Anne McCaffrey), used to read a lot of who-dunnits (Patricia Cornwell, John Grisham ect..), westerns (Louis L'amour, Larry McMurtry) adventures and biographies but there is only so much of those formulas that can be reworked before they gets stale. Might get back into historicals at some point.
>refer back to my explanation about dwarves
I know what you mean but as you pointed out he paints it out through several books so why could he not have made something similar to a dwarf, shown them as a homogeneous outward appearance then hit you with the gender profiling stuff?

That, at least to my adult mind, makes it less original and cheapens the whole of his works. I mean he made a flat earth on the backs of elephants coasting around on a giant turtle so he could have just as easily cooked up his own race right?

I mean look at Pern series. On the face of it it appropriates dragons, but McCaffrey makes them her own by adding a scientific creationism lore behind it to get around it. Pratchet? He just has some gods mold things from clay ( I know that just brought the garden of eden into play but please my brain already hurts)

>>22078943

Might check it out thanks!

>>22078102
Robert Frost

>>22081154
>No she could but she would have to be a less lazy writer to do it.
It'd be a different joke at best.
The humor is the contrast between the mythical carpet and Rowling's carpets. It needs two carpets, just one won't cut it. No matter how inventive your novel means of propulsion, it can't have that exact impact without an existing version to contrast it to.
It might also just no longer be worth it. You don't get to write unlimited words, taking longer for the same payoff makes less sense.
>Read a lot of sci-fi (Peter F Hamilton, Ian. m Banks, Douglas Adams, Anne McCaffrey), used to read a lot of who-dunnits (Patricia Cornwell, John Grisham ect..), westerns (Louis L'amour, Larry McMurtry) adventures and biographies but there is only so much of those formulas that can be reworked before they gets stale. Might get back into historicals at some point.
Right, less monotonous than I feared! Still, it's all genre, so there are certain things you're missing out on.
>I know what you mean but as you pointed out he paints it out through several books so why could he not have made something similar to a dwarf, shown them as a homogeneous outward appearance then hit you with the gender profiling stuff?
This would feel disingenuous if you could do it at all, because "two sexes, one gender" isn't enough of a secret in-universe. There's no honest way to hide it for so long. And it works because you have a rich pre-existing mental concept of dwarf without that feature.
It's also just not the thing he was in the business of writing. It's not what people read him for, either. He wanted to say things about tradition and religious fundamentalism and gender expression. If he had to spend a couple of books on setup he'd have far less time left to talk about that stuff, and many readers would get bored, and it'd be far harder to just pick up any random book in the forty-part series without having read the preceding books.
>he made a flat earth on the backs of elephants coasting around on a giant turtle so he could have just as easily cooked up his own race right?
Bad news!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Turtle
He took the existing myth, also known from Hawkings's "turtles all the way down" anecdote. And then he added onto that that if this were the case then surely astronomers and geologists and zoologists would study it, which is a fine bit.
A'Tuin was introduced in the Colour of Magic, and that book even more so than all the others is just parodies of fantasy clichés from start to end. That's the point of the book, like Blazing Saddles but for the classical fantasy universe (in Pratchett's words).
I haven't watched Blazing Saddles but going by the Brooks films I did see I bet it'd be utterly impossible to create without appropriating because it plays with an entire genre. It's riffing on things you've seen not just once but ten times, well-worn grooves. You can't build an entire genre from scratch just to parody it.

>>22080496
Why are you snapping at me for?

Hey guys I have a question.
When it comes to spacing your paragraphs and conversation between characters what is generally a good method of structuring it?
I've been going back and forth in my story trying to make it all look properly spaced and not too far apart which I think was my problem for a while.
Can one of you give me an example of good paragraph vs bad paragraph structure?

>>22082148
Not sure what your question is.
You just have to make it obvious who is talking.
In most cases, when a different character speaks, it goes in a new paragraph, but as long as it's clear who's talking, this rule can be stretched.
And if necessary, a dialog tag, or some text before the speech, to identify the speaker.
Nothing you couldn't glean from reading books.

>AI slop

Annnnnd I just cream pied the thread

>>22083564
It really bothers you this thread lasted 8 days, don't it?
Meanwhile, your pseud threads fill up with seething and Gardnerspam in barely over a day.

>>22081701
He’s just attacking everyone. He’s the rabid dog of this general. There’s a reason why everyone abandoned ship

>>22083646
May I point out, once again, that claiming to speak for "everyone", when you're only speaking for yourself, is one of the classic signs of a sociopath.
The rest of your insecure, seething, samefagging behavior confirms it, BTW.

New thread
>>22084209
>>22084209
>>22084209
>>22084209