/lit/ - Literature

>>22037561
Keep it one thread tranny-bot.
>>22037561

>>22037577
>>>/pol/427204140
>>22037339
rather

weird how this shit gets shilled here, and so poorly

>>22037561
If he is right, then who cares? It's not like you have a choice, so act like you are free...

>>22037770
He goes around testifying before juries that murderers aren't responsible for their actions and deserve leniency. It seems to matter in very obvious ways.

Fucking Hegelian scum

>>22037771
>He goes around testifying before juries that murderers aren't responsible for their actions and deserve leniency

>>22037771
Just when I thought he couldn't get more Jewish.

>>22037771
I don't have free will either so I'll convict the criminal anyway

>>22037771
>murderers aren't responsible since they lack free will
>jurors should thus apply their free will in recognition of this

Well, which is it?

>>22037783
That's why he's determined to testify, to affect the determinations of your decision. He's a causal cog for letting murderers loose on the streets. If free exists or not clearly matters in cases of crime.

>>22037791
Yes it's the behavior of a cancer.

>>22037789
Are you dumb? See >>22037791

>>22037561
Theists and agnostics are fond of saying we need religion in our lives and we can’t actually go on with it. My last shred of belief rest in my own faith in a free agency. It doesn’t actually matter what my predetermined fate is, no one can know it. I don’t believe in time travel by technological means, so my compatibalism (the belief that there is some wiggle room in determinism for some free will, the smaller one goes) is something of a secularist faith, and I’m comfortable with that.

>He goes around testifying before juries that murderers aren't responsible for their actions
And are you responsible for the parents you grew up with? The daily diet you’ve been provided with?
Ever been to prison for a minor offense and come out even more hardened than what the already hard streets made you into as a kid growing up?
Some people make abominable decisions, and the rich and powerful make the worst for not abandoning this shitty system that makes killers and rapists and thieves of the impoverished. The rest of us are also to blame for not disowning them as some ruling class in charge of us. But that’s just how they raised us

>>22037795
If freewill doesn't exist then how can Sopolsky's testimony alter the jurors' decisions? And how would Sopolsky be able to formulate an opinion on the matter?

Even arguing over whether freewill exists demonstrates that freewill exists because you're using freewill to debate it. That being said, he's right in that we have freewill only to a small extent and most behavior is determined by genetics and behavioral patterns formed in childhood.

>>22038348
lmao
hilariously low iq post

>>22037771
The sooner we get rid of the remnants of Medieval "common sense" and closet Christian nonsense, the better
What's the point of sentencing someone on the basis of how "responsible" they are, it clearly hasn't prevented crime in the 2k+ years it's been done
Sentence people on the basis of their future, are they going to just do drugs and be leeches, did they defraud everyone of millions of dollars, or are they just insufferable twats who keep spamming /lit/ with stupid /pol/tards bs? Kill them
Human life is not something special, it's not something you have an innate right to, if you're as asshole, it's better to just put you up against the wall, then wasting time trying to coax and cajole you into being someone worth being around
For instance, this thread does not belong on lit, if you're too stupid to post on the right board for it, you know the answer

>>22038368
Why? Genuine question.

>>22038386
Sapolsky was determined to study this field because of his background, his family, class, education, interests, etc. he could just as well not testify at court cases, but he does because of what he’s leaned and believes is correct and conscionable

determinism feels like too strong of an argument to me. every single second the entire cosmos and everything in it (including your feelings & thoughts & desires) moves forward to the next second with forces acting upon it. how would we ever be able to change those forces? the sun is on a trajectory this second, it will be the next second and is pushed along by forces that acted upon them before. how would the sun ever alter its course? same with human beings, you are reading these individual words right now, your stomach is growling, deep inside you there are a smorgosboard of needs & desires & thoughts building up, all of these things move forward depending on the forces that came before it. so like the sun, how would you ever change this trajectory? your interest/disgust at my writing is compelling you to read the next word in the sentence. and you cannot simply change the trajectory of reading these words, because that change in trajectory would be followed by your sudden impulse to want to follow this trajectory. every move you make, from brushing your teeth to getting engaged has been decided by forces acting on you before them. no free will, thats my fucking take on it anyway

>>22038416
to want to NOT follow this trajectory*
oopsies

>>22038386
let's say there are 2 equations represented by 2 variables
Y and J
Y includes all the reasons why the jury will pick guilty or not guilty, it stands for (You)
1+2+B+X+4+.... = Y
J includes all the reasons Sapolsky will do what he does, it stands for Jew
2+2+B+T+...= J

because one of the values of J includes testifying in court to free murderers, that means J is included in the formula for Y

both are still deterministic formulas

the fact J is deterministic doesn't mean Y isn't deterministic, and this remains true even though J is included within Y

hopefully this was simple enough for your tiny brain to process it, asking how his testimony could affect the jury is in fact just like asking how ANYTHING that affects the jury could affect it, you admit there is a formula for their decision, then suggest it's ridiculous to suggest the formula is a composite because those composites are in turn composites, but everything is a composite in a deterministic system by definition A causes B causes C, you don't C without A because you need A to get B to get C

>>22038377
>What's the point of sentencing someone on the basis of how "responsible" they are, it clearly hasn't prevented crime in the 2k+ years it's been done
This isn't true, in America at least. There is a clear trend that incarcerating more criminals and for longer significantly reduces crime, as significant portions of crimes are repeat offenders, who in turn tend to get harsher sentences. This is one of the clear reasons for the decline in violent crime in America in the last century.

>For instance, this thread does not belong on lit, if you're too stupid to post on the right board for it, you know the answer
It's a thread about a book/author. Are you sure you aren't retarded anon?

>>22038720
Roe v Wade was the real reason violent crime was going down. Single poor black women getting abortions cut the supply of new violent criminals.

>>22037561
There is no agreed upon definition of consciousness, until there is one the question of free will cannot be meaningfully addressed beyond word games.

>>22037561
after two classes of quantum mechanics , statistical physics and dynamical systems and chaos theory the idea of free will is ridiculous. What is the "will" exactly ?

>>22037561
name one practical consequence of us having or not having free will

Of course he's wrong, he has self-admitted to having zero grasp of quantum physics or philosophy. He explicitly states he is merely interpreting studies that show that brains have an ordering of judgements in the brain that imply emotion precedes rationale. He extends this to imply that we are simply pond scum floating in the wake. He has not studied the fields that would get him beyond this brick wall.

Conan already solved this in his Calderon de la Barca's voice

>>22037561
At that level of removal it doesn't matter. Its not going to, or cannot, dictate human actions, right or wrong.

>Sapolsky
Opinion discarded.

>>22037771
What kind of an argument is that in court?
Any juror can just say: "lol, guilty! I don't care, I am not responsible for this decision either, so might as well err on the side of caution. Guilt free sentencing."

>>22037771
He's right, but the justice system isn't about determining guilt, it's a eugenics system which prioritizes removing undesirables from society and therefore the gene pool.

>>22037561
He's obviously trying to find an excuse for his appearance.

>>22037771
If murderers don’t have free will, and neither do juries, then his testimony doesn’t matter, the jury will do what it will do as ordained by causality. This his actions are pointless
Not that he could stop if he’s right, since he has no free will to I suppose, but he and you should at least recognize that it’s a retarded, pointless task

>“Zeno, they say, was whipping a slave for stealing. When the latter said, ‘It was decreed by fate for me to steal’, Zeno replied, “And to be beaten’.”

>>22039939
>If murderers don’t have free will, and neither do juries, then his testimony doesn’t matter, the jury will do what it will do as ordained by causality. This his actions are pointless
I really hope this is a samefag otherwise the IQ of this board is clearly in the double digits

>>22037561
Behaviorism needs to be thoroughly purged from society

>>22038377
you have to go back

>>22037561
The real redpill is realizing it doesn't matter.

>>22037771
>the murderer has no free will
>therefore, we must lock him up forever since if freed, he will not be able to resist murdering again
"leniency"

>>22037561
if free will doesn't exist then explain how i make choices all the time? today i chose to eat a grapefruit instead of eggs for breakfast. explain that, fucking idiot

>>22038326
So if some dude kills someone when on meds that freak him the fuck out does he deserve justice? Forget about crime and punishment. It's like a ticket vendor at chuck e cheese. The ticket machine sucks the tickets but goes in much quicker if you force it.

>>22040461
Then learn how to use rhetoric. If you want to make your opinion heard which you surely aren't deserving then speak to the anons.

>>22040919
It's like when you give a kid unplugged gamepad so he can sit quietly and click buttons while you play your game. The kids tries to connect his random clicking to what is happening on the screen and after a while he gives up.
So maybe it's more like those retarded console games where the whole game is just one long cinematic but you get to click a button rapidly in order to do what will be done anyways. You can give up and die or something else happens, or you can play along and continue the charade. In this scenario, giving up is closest to what you can get to free will.

>>22040919
Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.

>>22040132
Kino post.

>>22038720
>Thinking that because it's in a book it's literature
Philosphy is /his/, science is /sci/. Being an illiterate, obnoxious sheepfucker is /pol/
>This isn't true
The daily school shooter wants a word
>>22040508
That's right, back to the inbred cesspool of phoneposting retarded scum that is /pol/ is where you all belong

>>22041062
>it's your duty to teach morons talking about determinism who clearly don't even know or understand anything they are so vocal about
lol no

>>22041211
>cries about pol
>repeats pol fictions
The NPC is malfunctioning.

>>22041228
Fuck off
See, you don't need blather, meme straw-manning, or posturing, it doesn't make you look smart or capable, it just outs you as a vapid tool

>>22040919
You don't have control over the infinite gradations of your thoughts. In fact, most of the time you're not really thinking self awarely or consciously. However that doesn't mean free will doesn't exist in some form. It's just not what you think it is.

>>22041242
Free will does not exist in any form. It's just that retards don't understand complexity
>>22040919
>I choose grapefruit instead of eggs!
Dude...

>>22041241
>continues to do anything but contribute to the thread
>calls other people shitposters
The NCP is broken.

>>22037771
Yeah, and I bet he also testifies before juries that multi-billionaire CEOs aren't guilty of tax fraud because they're not responsible for their actions too. Oh, wait...

>>22041265
>>22041228
It's a tale as old as time.

>>22041265
Telling you to fuck off is the greatest contribution anyone could make to the thread at this point, and I made it
You want to sound like a broken record, sure I can keep playing you

>>22041270
>still crying
zozzle

>>22037771
>He goes around testifying before juries that murderers aren't responsible for their actions and deserve leniency. It seems to matter in very obvious ways.
This is a slight exaggeration but yes, he says he quit his lab to do other things, and this is how he spends his final years. Definitely something wrong with this Yid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1Ebshc8Ls4&t=425s

>>22041266
He's a literal California communist, so he does say the CEOs had nothing to do with their success.

>>22037561
I guess I'm not responsible for my antisemitism then. Burn them all, let God sort them out

>>22041273
>He's a literal California communist, so he does say the CEOs had nothing to do with their success.
Right, so I guess he also admits that it's fine for CEOs exploit the working class. Surely he's a logically consistent thinker, right, like all communists?

>>22041273
>Definitely something wrong with an old guy writing books in his retirement
You really are the sharp one, huh
The problem with stupid people thinking they're smart is that you can't really fault them, since they're too dumb to learn any better

>>22041281
>testing on behalf of random violent criminals
>writing books
Do you even read what you reply to? Dumb NPC.

>>22041283
And there goes the broken record. Poor baby, did I hurt your wittle feelings?

>>22041283
At this point I think it may be an actual bot...

>>22041289
Fuck off now. You are the one doing the bot responses, it's the exact /pol/ script every time

>>22041283
>>22041289
Ironic considering the OP in effect argues humans are biological automatons. Perhaps retard anon was making some grand meta narrative via demonstration?

>>22041293
Truly, it makes you think (unless you're a brain dead NPC that is).

>>22041293
There you, meme pictures, pretending to be other people, right by the playbook. Still, it will never make your peener or your fragile little ego any bigger

>>22039392
Quantum physics is the last cope of the anti-determinist. It proves nothing and Sapolsky explains as much regardless of your kvetching.

>>22041303
>It proves nothing
Actually t's the reverse, it renders all prior proofs insubstantial. We simply do not know how the universe works. You could argue it is the difference between atheism and agnosticism, saying you don't know is intellectual much more responsible than suggesting you've proven a negative and making outright assumptions.

>>22041296
Easy there big guy, no need to be upset.

>>22041307
>There's something I don't understand
>It makes all my wish-fulfillment speculations based on gut instinct and irrational "common sense" logic TRUE BEYOND A DOUBT
...

>>22041314
Awww, you just can't let go of the need for attention, huh?

>>22037561
I've never, ever heard a compelling argument for why it doesn't exist. It is always some retard making a claim about how classical mechanics would work in his favorite toy model, and then extrapolating that to mean no free will. There are so many implicit premises and arguments that need to be made that are completely glossed over.

>>22041320
lel you're still seething? jesus dude

>>22041317
It's not just "something", it's everything.

>>22041211
I’d rather be inbred than someone who spreads GRIDS knowingly and doesn’t tell alone

>>22041431
The fuck is GRIDS?

>>22041307
no, quantum mechanics does not prove anything about the nature of the universe. In the words of Bohr, the "quantum world" does not exist, only an abstract description exists.
i-fucking-love-science retards are so tiresome.

>>22039791
this

>>22038326
>this shitty system that makes killers and rapists and thieves of the impoverished

>>22041303
You are aggressively wrong, and quantum physics is not anti-determinist. Sapolsky nor you have the IQ to grasp that.

>>22042675
>complains about the crime in black neighborhoods
>complains about someone noticing
What ARE you trying to imply?

>>22042206
You get Bohr out of your mouth you stupid fag, the quantum realm is more than the local realm.

>>22038348
>Even arguing over whether freewill exists demonstrates that freewill exists because you're using freewill to debate it.
It doesnt. There are zero contradictions here

>>22040132
Holy based

>>22042749
And you’re supposed to be an American, are you?

>>22041211
Why berate your fellow automatons? You know it won't change anything

>>22042709
no u

quantum mechanics is a useful abstract mathematical model, nothing more. It commits numerous leaps of faith in its mathematical apparatus and is hilariously stretching the conclusions, which is not surprising given how it was conceived to be a mathematical dirty hack to address the black body radiation catastrophe. You are retarded if you think the abstract description that QM/QFT/QED etc provide has anything to do with reality. You and your kind have stopped even trying to cope, so shut up and calculate, you nigger retard.