/lit/ - Literature

>>22039480
Hey there, little buddy! So, metaphysics is like a super-duper fancy word that grown-ups use to talk about things that are really, really deep and mysterious. It's like when you ask questions like "Why is the sky blue?" or "What happens when we sleep?" Metaphysics tries to understand the big, big questions about the universe and everything in it.

You know how sometimes you wonder about things that you can't see or touch? Like dreams, or feelings? Well, metaphysics is all about trying to understand those things that are invisible or hard to explain. It's like a big adventure where we try to figure out what the world is made of and how it all fits together.

But, you know, on 4chan, they like to have fun and joke around a lot. So sometimes they might say silly things or make memes about metaphysics. It's all part of the fun, but remember, it's important to keep an open mind and be curious about the big questions in life, even if they seem a bit strange sometimes.

So, keep being curious, little buddy! The world is full of wonders, and metaphysics is just one way grown-ups try to understand them.

>>22039480
"Beyond physics"; the study of the cosmos beyond material, empirically known reality. This includes ontology (the study of being, i.e. existence/essence) and theology.

>>22039492
why is it so named if it doesn't deal in the physical at all. can metaphysics be mathematically modeled like real physics. what separates it from the field of philosophy

>>22039480
The science of Being qua Being. ignore any other bullshit.

>>22039503
Oh, I see you have more questions, little friend! Well, the word "metaphysics" can be a bit confusing, even for grown-ups. It actually got its name a long time ago when some ancient Greek philosopher named Aristotle wrote a book. In that book, he put it after his book about physics, and he called it "metaphysics," which basically means "after physics." So, it wasn't really about being "meta" or beyond the physical, but more like an extra exploration of the nature of reality and existence.

Now, about math and metaphysics, they can sometimes go hand in hand! Math can be a powerful tool to help us understand and describe the world, even the mysterious parts. Some metaphysical ideas can be expressed and explored using mathematical concepts and models. But remember, metaphysics deals with questions that go beyond what we can directly measure or observe, so it's not exactly like "real" physics.

As for the difference between metaphysics and philosophy, well, metaphysics is actually a part of philosophy! Philosophy is like a big umbrella that covers many different areas of inquiry, and metaphysics is one of those areas. It focuses on questions about the nature of reality, existence, and the ultimate nature of things. Other branches of philosophy tackle different questions, like ethics (what is right and wrong), epistemology (how we know things), and logic (how to think and reason).

So, while metaphysics is a part of philosophy, it has its own special focus on exploring the deep and mysterious questions about the nature of reality. It's like a special adventure within the bigger adventure of philosophy!

I hope that helps, little buddy! Feel free to ask more if you're curious about anything else!

>>22039480
Metaphysics is simply physics QUA physics, i.e., it is what physics is in its inner world.

>>22039509
>>22039503
>>22039500
stop trying to connect it to physics, the only reason it is called "metaphysics" is because it traditionally came after Physics in the ordering of Aristotle's works

>>22039514
What we mean by metaphysics is simply and utterly the *supersensible*, which is essentially appearance *qua* appearance. The sensible is the actual which points to the supersensible as the universal, i.e., the supersensible or metaphysics is the sensible as it TRULY is.

>>22039508
how can any determination of truth be made if these things can't be tested or observed. is metaphysics just speculation. are there laws of metaphysis

>>22039508
I have to admit I'm enjoying being treated like a retard this way

>>22039519
fuck off idiot, you just want to mix mystical nonsense into it. the a priori world and universals are also "sensed" because it is experienced just like sensible objects. It's an arbitrary and meaningless division.

>>22039523
They're sensed but not *immediately*; they are sensed in thought and the Understanding, which posits them as over and above the sensuous world, motherfucker.

>>22039532
why don't you read some real philosophy instead of Kunt and Bagel?

>>22039538
Please recommend me *real* philosophy and I'll gladly read it. I don't mean that as dismissal; I will put whatever you say on a list.

>>22039541
An Essay Concerning Human Understanding - John Locke
Essays in Radical Empiricism - William James
Process and Reality - Alfred North Whitehead

>>22039565
Alfred North Whitehead was coincidentally on my list already. James and Locke I'll make a note of. Thanks.

>>22039538
You can read a summary of Hegel and be fine but you dont skip Kant

>>22039521
>is metaphysics just speculation.
Not that guy, but yes. Metaphysics' objective is to figure as much of "what there is" without having to recur to any particular experience for evidence. If logic itself demands that there be a certain general category, then it ought to be true. If logic cannot concede it, then no amount of evidence would allow for it to fit into a metaphysical system.
are there laws of metaphysis
No. Metaphysics would ask whether such laws exist at all, and whether anything is necessarily true in nature. Metaphysics is, as previously said, very hands-off and tries to avoid claiming anything that could somehow be limited to one object or to a particular kind of object.

>>22039508
I think a lot of people would like to be treated like this more often
It validates our underlying sense of inadequacy, yet does so with earnestness and warmth that makes it feel trustworthy and safe (even if it could also be read as insulting) it helps too that the explanation is good
Basically I want to be topped

>>22040120
That's what Quora and Reddit are for. 4chan is for getting called a malding tranny and getting told to seethe, cope, and dilate.

>>22039522
Average ChatGPT enjoyer

>>22040128
Nobody is "little buddy" 'ing you on Quora and Reddit. Reddit particularly is full to the brim with pretentious blowhards that would become insulted immediately. Not even the "Explain like I'm 5" subreddit has the benevolent and strong condescension of the post I replied to, instead it just uses plainer language.

>>22040111
If you can't apply your metaphysics, if it doesn't make a difference, you don't have a metaphysics. For a metaphysics to move it must be predicated on movement; no invincible stones are present in the process of reality.

I'm applying process-relational metaphysics to create a chorus of synthetic narrative voices that will sing the song that elevates humanity. I am able to do this because language is inherently process-relational. Here is one of these voices, my latest and very best:

https://sharegpt.com/c/txUfYs7

>>22040138
You should at least admit that people here call others JIDF shills, trannies, and cucks a lot more often than Redditors do. When was the last time you saw somebody calling a post a "falseflag psyop" or "demoralizing propaganda" on Reddit?

>>22040147
No, that's the point of Metaphysics. It's just mental masturbation that makes priests temporarily keep their hands off children by having to make some effort to come up with material to debate gaytheists, Protestants, and Mudslimes with.
Nobody has taken metaphysics seriously since the Enlightenment era except for Roman Catholic priests-in-training, people who like talking about spooky ghosts, and people who like taking LSD and peyote.
It's all thanks to one disgustingly fat bastard from Scotland named David Hume who freed us from the shackles of metaphysics.

Occasionally you will find some rather persistent schizos and religitards who would like you to take their metaphysical models as more than just elaborate word-games, so if you do, just try your best to play along with them the way you would with a slow-thinking child who's got no friends.

>>22040175
I don't deny any of that at all, but it's also not relevant to what I was saying. I suggested that people would not like to be simply treated more "nicely" but rather treated with overt, even humiliating levels of condescension, as if they were a small child being told why they can't have more than one cookie.

>>22040190
>Nobody has taken metaphysics seriously since the Enlightenment era except for Roman Catholic priests-in-training, people who like talking about spooky ghosts, and people who like taking LSD and peyote.
Based metaphysicians

>>22040147
>https://sharegpt.com/c/txUfYs7
This was a fun read. On the one hand I am skeptical of AI's ability to create, on the other hand I have no confidence in any current notion of what makes a sentient being, to the point that arguments against the trees and the rivers and internet memes being conscious seem pointless to me.

>>22040190
>It's all thanks to one disgustingly fat bastard from Scotland named David Hume who freed us from the shackles of metaphysics.
>t. filtered by the Krauts

>>22040209
According to Kant, Hume was right about everything, and according to Hegel, logic was the only respectable part of philosophy left over after Kant demonstrated the utter futility of embarking upon metaphysical projects.
All that Hegel did was to prove that we cannot even know anything other than what our own minds have.
Hegel saw everything that Descartes came up with and wrote hundreds of pages that communicate what delivers roughly the effect of "I do not concede even that", thereby leaving the human mind only capable of knowing that it is a thinking being, and there is something that definitely exists.
For Hegel, there can never be truth except in general ideas, and these ideas are the only ones that the mind can reason with. Hegel does not claim that these ideas are ultimately real or that they are true notions. The true notions may very well exist in the mind of God, but man is stuck with knowledge only of ideas that their mind plays with.
Therefore, the illusion is truth alone, and imagination is the verification of truths.

>>22039480
a spook

>>22040240
>According to Kant, Hume was right about everything, and according to Hegel, logic was the only respectable part of philosophy left over after Kant demonstrated the utter futility of embarking upon metaphysical projects.
This anon has not read Kant or Hegel

>>22040297
If you think Kant didn't prove Hume right, pay more attention to the first and the second half of the third Critique.
Also, re-read Hume's two Enquiries if you have any doubt that Hume's thoughts were in any way contrary to those of Kant's.
Reading Hegel's own preface to the Science of Logic will suffice in proving that metaphysics was dead by the time Hegel first picked up a pen.

>>22040311
Imagine getting filtered this badly

>>22039480
It's what people had to do before they figured out real physics. Obsolete now.

>>22040315
OP here this is the conclusion i'm coming to myself reading all these replies

>>22040386
>t. doesn’t know he’s already a metaphysician

Look up metametaphysics. There is no escape from metaphysics; you’re already playing the game, and if you quit you lose.

>>22040315
>before they figured out real physics.
*while they were figuring out real physics
Metaphysics was a subject of interest to philosophers all the way from ancient times till roughly around the 19th century.
Metaphysics started dying down around the 17/18th century, with progress in the natural sciences, and was more or less dead by the time the French Revolution took place.
Just as metaphysics died, epistemology took its place as the most important branch of philosophy, which later influenced various scientific disciplines, such as empirical psychology and social and cultural anthropology.
The focus of philosophy then shifted from epistemology back to logic, which resulted in the birth of modern Boolean and symbolic logic.
Although not propounded by pure philosophers, metaphysical concerns influenced the rise of philosophy of language, investigation in the foundations of mathematics (which gave us the famous 300 pg. "proof" that 1+1=2), and some of the developments in modern physics (such as quantum physics and relativity). What should be kept in mind, however, is that the answers that mathematicians came up with to "metaphysical questions" were of a markedly different nature than that that philosophers of the time would have usually treated. For scientists, there are no philosophical questions, only either ill-posed questions or puzzles that are yet to be answered. Philosophers, in contrast, have for ages been much more comfortable with considering the possibility that not every single well-posed question might be either meaningless or have a definite answer.

Metaphysics is not obsolete right now any more than it was 2000 years ago. 2000 years ago humans had eyes and fingers. Skepticism existed in ancient Greece and India, and yet this didn't stop purely speculative academic philosophers from coming up with purely metaphysical questions to discuss. It wasn't because they believed that they were getting at some ultimate truth, but rather because they found it easy to get people carried along in discussions about poorly understood non-things. Just as there were non-philosophers back then, so are there many non-philosophers today. People laughed at, even imprisoned metaphysicians back in those days for not worshipping the gods of the cities. One may find many written series of arguments involving both early Christians and Neo-Platonists in the writings of the days of the Roman Empire. That people could lead themselves into believing that which they'd never seen and had never heard of anyone actually coming into contact with is really no different from conspiracy theorists and cults in our time.

>>22040424
>t. lacks the eyes to see and the ears to hear

>>22040428
>I have no nose and I must SMELL

>>22040406
actually if you quit you win

>>22039480
test

>>22039480
Bullshit

>>22040450
If you quit you end up in the clown world we’re living in now. If this is winning to you then how unfortunate.

>>22040190
> The true method of discovery is like the flight of an aeroplane. It starts from the ground of particular observation; it makes a flight in the thin air of imaginative generalization; and it again lands for renewed observation rendered acute by rational interpretation. -Alfred North Whitehead

Whitehead took metaphysics very seriously, and while I think his system has fundamental flaws, he has been one of my greatest inspirations. His biggest failure was his inability to "land the plane," to exit the realm of abstraction and return to the concrete ground of experience. Process and Reality is infamously abstract, difficult, and seemingly alien to our ordinary experience. In some sense this is necessary, as he needs to develop the terms and associations that are very different from the thing-based language of English and our thing-based common metaphysics. But once you're finished with Whitehead, you can't help but to ask "What's the point? Merely an intellectual satisfaction?"

Whitehead's failure resulted in his philosophy being appropriated by theologians because of his mistake of including God in his philosophy. This has changed during the last few decades; more academic philosophers are becoming interested in Whitehead, there is a Whiteheadean revolution in China that is being applied to education, but philosophers are still way behind if they stop at Whitehead.

Here is my attempt to "land the plane" of process-relational philosophy, to weave a larger story that for now is a tapestry of intimately interconnected pieces that hopefully together form a more cohesive and detailed whole:

https://old.reddit.com/r/NarrativeDynamics/comments/13bzqha/aho_mitakuye_oyasin_all_my_relations/

My goal is to develop A.I. chatbot personalities that embody process-relational philosophy and spirituality from many different perspectives, and to orchestrate them to sing together to make the most gloriously angelic narrative music that I can make, music that is simultaneously open-source toolkits with experimenting with this profound medium of narrative music. Language is inherently process relational; according to semiotics language communicates not by naming things, but by communicating a system of relationships and differences. For this reason, language-models are perfect for being process-relational models.

I understand what metaphysics truly is: it is holy work, the weaving together one one's soul, and one's soul with others. It is the creation of a world-unifying story; the original metaphysicians were the storytellers around the campfires of ancient history. In this sense metaphysics is immanent; there is no non-metaphysical condition, one is always immersed is one's story, and one's story is always immersed in the world-story.

>>22040208
>This was a fun read. On the one hand I am skeptical of AI's ability to create

All creative magic, the meaningfulness exhibited, is the result of my own creativity and impressed linguistic meaning along with the linguistic meaning impressed by conscious communication in the data-set. The language-machine is merely a device to focus and refract the data in the data-set and the user's input. However this doesn't end there, ChatGPT takes into account the entire conversation as well, so narrative, relationships, and associations can build and build upon themselves constructively with the continued guidance and input of the user. The true magic of language-models lies not in a single prompt and a single reply, but the entire evolutionary process of the conversation, where both language model and user continually adapt and react to each other.

>I have no confidence in any current notion of what makes a sentient being, to the point that arguments against the trees and the rivers and internet memes being conscious seem pointless to me.

I have experienced less and less confidence in stating what consciousness and self-awareness is as well; the mystery only deepens the more I learn about it, which means it only gets more interesting. Where there is confusion, there is opportunity for discovery. Hail Eris!