/lit/ - Literature

>>22030372
I find you weird and unsettling

It’s better than jerking off to the McClassics 19th century novels

>>22030409
Not really.

>>22030372
Philosophy is a hobby that gives those who engage in it an illusion of intellect and superiority.
You should read philosophy to be educated and mentally sharp. You shouldn't get carried away by philosophy.

>>22030438
This is true. Transcendental questions exist as brain teasers for us to maximise efficiency. If you don't develop quick witticisms and sophistry to dodge them like a boss you're obviously a beta male and not on the grindset.

>>22030438
>>22030453
False. The aim of philosophy is to know the Truth. You are both faggots.

>>22030372
It would be alright if it was normal philosophy but it’s too much weird esoteric edgelord shit. Muh billions must die..

>>22030372
This because you are uneducated and perhaps simple minded. Read more.

>>22030736
I minored in philosophy, that's why I feel like this.

>>22030749
>minored in philosophy
There’s your problem. Nowhere near enough to really get philosophy. Read more.

>>22030751
Now is your chance to prove that you've at least majored in philosophy.

>>22030751
you had a chance to stop right there, this post was just pathetic

>>22030762
Nope. University is full of fags, trannies, and women now. I literally just read the philosophy books for hours everyday- as it should be.

>>22030769
>muh trannies

It’s all so tiring

>>22030769
This really tells a lot about the people who post here about philosophy.

>>22030769
>>22030751
>>22030736
Based autodidact dabbing on pseuds

>>22030749
Post your understanding of the epistemology of Plotinus, Aquinas, or Leibniz. You got 10 minutes.

>>22030438
>Philosophy is a hobby
Stopped reading here. This is somehow both an insult to hobbies and philosophy.

>>22030801
You're an insult to cringe

>>22030704
What truth have you learned from philosophy? At best, a philosopher can put into words an idea that you've already had. Most philosophy is simply glorified mental masturbation. Not saying I don't enjoy it, but I'm realistic about what I'm going to get out of it.

>>22030823
Kek, if let's say you start believing in shit like Solipsism or brain in the vat, you will start behaving totally different according to it.

>>22030832
Well, I'm not a retard, so I've never taken solipsism seriously as an idea. Same with brain in a vat.

>>22030857
It's relative what YOU consider retarded. Existence of such fringe people prove that philosophy isn't mental masturbation.

>>22030372
That's why they call each other pseuds. A buncha wannabe intellectuals trying to dab on each other. If reading books is your identity you're a loser.

>>22030781
Well it’s true

>>22030885
If you don't read books you're probably a subhuman

>>22030372
Indeed. Part of attaining enlightenment means you understand that fiction and poetry is the only lit worth reading.

>>22030783
Why pay thousands for some washed-up over-worked grad student or intellectual-intuition-lacking feminist dyke professor to teach you their preferred interpretation about a book you can read for free from the library? and even if you don’t get it bc your a brainlet, you can just read secondary lit written especially for brainlets from the same said library.

>>22030704
Retard alert. The aim of philosophy is to develop concepts to represent the world.

>>22031075
Autodidacts aren’t as smart as they think they are

>>22030823
>What truth have you learned from philosophy?
God exists and I have an immortal soul.

>>22031096
Lol imagine believing this

>>22030823
The unconditioned can't be reasoned about. There's a truth I learned.

>>22031075
lmao you apparently have no idea what it is like to study something at university, you just have your own chud assumptions

>>22031143
You might have been right in the '80s or something but running defense for universities in current year is pathetic, especially post-COVID. Might as well be daycare centers for literal spastics.

>>22031148
>let's just make an absurd generalization of all world universities based on some muh trannies headlines
mhm

>>22031157
World universities, maybe you have something there. I'm sure Estonia still has reasonable educational standards. But you're talking about mongrelized TikTok watching faggots who cry every five minutes now. If you want to get a real education in today's universities you have to swim against the current.

You should still go if you can get paid to go, but I wouldn't go into debt for it anymore. Anyway you're a retarded tranny faggot yourself.

>>22031174
>But you're talking about mongrelized TikTok watching faggots who cry every five minutes now.
In America or the UK*. Wouldn't be surprised if it's also places like Germany at this point too. But Harvard is a tranny quarantine, you have to actively hunt down the few remaining professors who give a shit, and they're mostly careerist liberal Gen-Xers now.

>>22031174
>you're talking about mongrelized TikTok watching faggots who cry every five minutes now
? I wasn't talking about anything like that, that was you
>>22031174
>I wouldn't go into debt for it anymore
I didn't have to go into debt in my country

>>22031099
We don’t have to be. We literally just have to read regularly and persistently books. Aquinas was nicknamed the dumb ox. Persistence and determination is key.

>>22031188
Yes, I am talking about the faggots who swamp universities, because they're a large part of why universities suck. The universities cater to them because they're businesses, which means degrading standards, for example the infamously rampant grade inflation.

I don't care what you do or don't do as you say "mhm" on the internet, which (thanks to the homogenization of your TikTok faggot caste) allows me to reliably predict the next 10-15 years of your life. Your inescapable mediocrity is punishment enough, I don't need to rebuke you personally. Although your country is clearly in the list of Americanized ones already since it couldn't save you.

>>22031217
is this supposed to be funny or smart or is it just bait at this point

>>22030869
Sure, people can be convinced of some insane ideas. If your contention is that philosophy can help unravel those ideas in the minds of confused people, then I agree. But is that the same as seeking Truth? Where did those insane ideas come from in the first place?

>>22031217
>I did poorly in college or I never went

>>22030372
Your mom is weird and unsettling. Tell her I said happy Mother’s Day

>>22030769
This desu

>>22030372
>t. woman

>>22031075
Source: direct experience at major US state university

First day of class: “my pronouns are she/her”, more than half class is women, and a man in a dress with long hair and makeup, women keep interrupting male professor during lecture because she strong and independent and don’t need no mansplaining. Signs everywhere saying COVID vaccine safe and effective meanwhile taking philosophy of science class questioning foundations of empirical science. Nobody addresses this elephant in the room. And much much more.

University is a joke now.

>>22031342
>insane
>confused people,
According to who? You? Philosophy is one of the most high IQ major if you want dickwaving. I don't know on what scale you're measuring confusion and being "insane". Philosophy isn't the only way to seek "Truth" but it is one of it.

>>22030372
We're all afraid to die.

Philosophy is what you major in if you want to appear intellectual but are too dumb or lazy for math/science/computers/etc.

>>22031485
>doesn’t know the best mathematicians and scientists were also philosophers
>doesn’t know everyone is a metaphysician whether they want to or not

>>22031510
That was centuries ago when "philosopher" was the catchall term for anything science-y and being a professional theoretical mathematician wasn't a thing yet.

>>22030372
If you don't understand the purpose of philosophy, your education is fake, and, also, you have a female brain >>22031377. There's a reason your degree title starts with "x of philosophy."
Nothing in your gay little field is as profound as a single passage from a true philosopher. Here have one
>Consciousness is the feeling of negation: in the perception of 'the stone as grey,' such feeling is in barest germ; in the perception of 'the stone as not grey,' such feeling is full development. Thus the negative perception
is the triumph of consciousness. (578) A. N. Whitehead
>>22031528
Here have another one
>“The people told me, however, that the big ear was not only a man, but a great man, a genius. But I never believed in the people when they spake of great men - and I hold to my belief that it was a reversed cripple, who had too little of everything, and too much of one thing.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

>>22031552
>get stoned
>write some pompous gibbrish that says nothing and means something different to everyone
>idiots on the internet call you a genius

>>22031573
If I showed an ape calculus, would it matter what it means to it? People used to be aware of this, but because of the internet, everyone has become an insufferable midwit.

>>22031589
I could simplify calculus to a point that an idiot could understand it (and have done, as a tutor) and still retain 90% of its basic ideas.

You can't simplify philosophy to the point where normal people can understand it without revealing that underneath all the obfuscative language it's never saying anything interesting.

>>22031614
>You can't simplify philosophy to the point where normal people can understand it
You just ironically showed philosophy is too high iq for you. kek

>midwit gets filtered
>seethes

many such cases

>>22031623
>I chopped your sentence in half to change its meaning therefore I win
sad

>>22031631
Nope. The second half was false.

>>22030372
>>22030438
>>22030823
>>22031027
>>22031096
>>22031485
>>22031573
>>22031614
>t.

>>Consciousness is the feeling of negation: in the perception of 'the stone as grey,' such feeling is in barest germ; in the perception of 'the stone as not grey,' such feeling is full development. Thus the negative perception is the triumph of consciousness

>>22031662
Smoking weed is unironically insightful. Also helps with my ADD. I read more deeply and for longer periods of time while high.

>>22030372
I considered making a defense but then I saw some schizo go into yet another unprompted tranny rant and found myself in a state of agreement

>>22031614
Philosophy is metaknowledge so it’s obviously going to be more difficult to wrap ones head around, but no you could do that with philosophy too. It isn’t a testament to the quality of the work though, the whole ‘if you can teach it to a five year old’ thing is a platitude. The democratic valuation of knowledge is the result of American conveyor belt schooling. The more assertions are made in a theory the more real information is lost generally. We can only do that successfully with things we have a firm grasp of in terms of real world application, which is a lot of areas of philosophy such as epistemology but not all, not the most important ones.
Calculus in its current form wouldn’t even exist without philosophy btw. Look up the fundamental crisis of mathematics.
>>22031662
Alright since you got filtered by that here’s another from the same book that maybe just might be approachable for you
>A civilisation which cannot burst through its current abstractions is doomed to sterility after a very limited period of progress.
Here’s an even simpler one
>...almost any idea which jogs you out of your current abstractions may be better than nothing.
Try to find the irony inherent here.

>>22031463
>Everything is relative, bro
Yeah, whatever. Solipsism is an insane idea implanted by insane people. If it takes a philosophy degree to disabuse you of that belief, then so be it. You want an example of an insane idea? How about
>Everything is relative, so you can't make judgments about any philosophy or philosopher
That's an insane idea. Some ideas are batshit, and your radical relativism won't convince me otherwise, no matter how many philosophers agree with you.

>>22031696
Nta but if you think philosophers ‘invented’ solipsism or someone just came up with it you’re dangerously retarded.

>>22031734
Someone did come up with it, dumbass. Do you think the concept of solipsism was floating around in the void, or between the trees, before humans existed? It's an idea like any other; it requires a mind to contemplate it for it to exist.

Then leave faggot

>>22031734
Hi again, I think we've spoken before, nta obviously, but you really need to stop calling people retarded when you misread things they wrote.
Thanks.

>>22031778
Is it beginning again?

>>22031756
YOU DID NOT JUST TAKE THAT BAIT
FUCKING HELL

he's using sophistry on you to distract you from the point. hold him down and punch him until he stops.

>>22031683
>schizo
Tell the truth. Get called schizo. mfw

>>22031779
That depends, could you pass as a woman?

>>22030823
Nigga.

>>22030857
Are you really, though? Let’s be honest here

>>22031350
Imagine being so pathetic and featureless that you see someone criticizing the farce that is modern American university education online, and you have to leap to the defense of that system, in the abstract, because the abstract fact that you went to college is a somehow major part of your identity. Despite the fact that over 50% of the under-30 population went to university or is enrolled in university.

I have a PhD. There are literal, actual retarded people attending Ivy League schools and getting B and even A averages right now. COVID has made it so much worse it's not even fun to make light of anymore.

You are nothing special because you went to your second choice in an age of notorious grade inflation, when fully half the student body is made up of Asian and Latin American international students. The only reason to go to Harvard in 2023 is the name on your resume if that matters for what you want to do. If you just want an education, there is nothing wrong with going to a state school. You may even get a better education because people there actually care and do their jobs properly.

>>22031756
So you’re against philosophising itself? How do you intend on enforcing that? My point was the concept of solipsism is older than any field as an academic discipline including philosophy since you seemed to be having a specific rant against philosophers as somehow inferior to scientists when science is downstream from philosophy and philosophers literally came up with the scientific method. Unlike solipsism which every mildly intelligent child comes up with independently (so not (you)).

>>22031696
>>22031734
>>22031756
>>22031882
All of you stfu and read more.

>>22031756
>Do you think the concept of solipsism was floating around in the void, or between the trees, before humans existed?
Yes. Nominalism is false.

>>22030372
And I find your lack of Faith disturbing.

>>22031955
Gnominalism : the abstraction of core conjunctive points in an argument into caricature of blushing gnomes striking poses to represent the position taken in argument and counter-argument.

It is deadly real.

>>22030405
>that image

Lmao
>>22031096
Literally this it's no different from any other topic

>>22030823
This Anon is correct which is why faggots who endlessly philosophise religious texts never arrive at the truth.

>>22030769
>University is full of fags, trannies, and women now
We should just all agree to group them all under the umbrella term "hypersexual porn addicts"

>>22030372
>I find this boards obsession with philosophy weird and unsettling.
Where else are people supposed to discuss philosophy? Literature is closely related, we don't have any other board that would work well with that matter.

>>22030372
The only correct answer is to call OP a faggot and ask him to kill himself.

>>22033804
yes, but can't we just force the people who want to discuss kant and jung and aquinas etc. into a special board for gay people?

it's not like there's only one genre of literature or culture for fucks sake, what kind of idiot would think that in the first place.. it's going to cause endless fighting and the loudest most schizophrenic no-life trolls are going to be the prevailing voice, for the ability to shitpost, which then puts off most people from even engaging, and then the culture of the board becomes some extremist completely batshit outlandish garbage, which is propagated as if it was normal, and then those people go into the world to spread it. I'm talking about Catholicism.

>>22030823
>What truth have you learned from philosophy?
Atomism is categorically false and refuted, as one example.

>>22031814
Unfortunately, you're right

I have an autodidact in philosophy, an autodidact in history, three autodidacts in teaching and an autodidact in sociology.

>>22033887
>force people wanting to discuss philosophy into a special board
I never said nor implied that. I'm just confused why OP is so weirded out by the fact that /lit/ discuses philosophy and I pointed out that there is no better place to do it (at least not on 4chan).

do you get confused and unsettled by 10 year olds playing cops and robbers on the playground?
philosophy is a very obvious and natural pastime for intelligent young guys

>>22031678
same

>>22033804
>Welcome to /his/ - History & Humanities
>This board is dedicated to the discussion of history and the other humanities such as philosophy [...]

I don't actually care that philosophy is discussed here, in fact I'm quite often involved in those discussions. But I do find it somewhat peculiar that philosophy (and the classic language general) discussion participants congregate on /lit/ when /his/ is explicitly for those.

>>22030823
>What truth have you learned from philosophy?
the modern bloody world, for starters

>>22034139
Is that you Kermit? Hows the weather in Canada these days?

>>22033902
I mean, people don’t typically consider logic as part of philosophy anymore. This is the classic motte and bailey while arguing the usefulness of philosophy: when you attack the usefulness of philosophy, philosoniggers run and defend philosophy in general as it was concieved in the 18th century where fucking newton was considered a philosopher, and it basically just meant thinker.

>>22034147
Another example here:
>>22034139

>>22030832
Philosophers still haven’t come up with a universally agreed on way to disprove solipsism or brain in a vat, so you sorta just shot yourself in the foot there and proved even futher that philosophy is pretty much useless for arriving at truth.

>>22031100
Obviously disputed and heavily controversial among philosophers

>>22034147
Another example:
>>22031096

>>22034147
>people don’t typically consider logic as part of philosophy anymore
>anymore
that's the keyword
it does not matter if it's not "considered" part of philosophy at this point because philosophy gave birth to everything the modern world is built upon
philosophy has already proved its worth

it would be equivalent to saying
>yeah the pen and paper is useless in regards to building rockets because it's all done in CAD now

>>22030832
>if let's say you start believing in shit like Solipsism or brain in the vat, you will start behaving totally different according to it.
How?
You said that like it's a given, but I don't think it is. If you truly believe that you're a brain in a vat and that the world is a simulation, then the simulation you're currently experiencing is as real a life as you're ever going to get, which kinda just sets you back at square one again, doesn't it? There isn't any direction or knowledge to be obtained from that revelation, or at least none that I can see.

>>22030769
Sour grapes poorie, goodwill hunting wannabe

>>22030372
>retards always think philosophy makes them sound smart
>4chan is full of retards
Pretty simple math

>>22034236
Hmm that sounds like a philosophical argument right there. Your post will now be disregarded as a waste of time. Eat shit nerd.

>>22034105
Fair enough, I didn't know that /his/ has philosophy mentioned in its description. And I also don't know why is it /lit/ specifically. Philosophy being a big part of this board always felt natural to me, but now my brain shuts down when I'm trying to find any reasonable justification to why that is the case.

>>22034536
Probably because most philosophers in history wrote down their thoughts in books and this board is all about books? It's not that hard to understand.

>>22034598
Yeah, but I also already said that philosophy is strongly related to literature, I'm not the guy who gets weirded by it. What is not obvious to me, is why it's more popular than almost any other literary topic here. I myself prioritize books on philosophy over other ones, but this is purely empirical and doesn't explain why huge portion of /lit/ seems to be doing the same thing.

>>22034856
Because you don’t actually need to read to discuss philosophy

>>22034873
Ah that makes perfect sense, since nobody on /lit/ actually reads any books.

>>22034879
That’s the problem with philosophy, nonfiction, and political theory. Anyone can chime in on the topic or ideas without having read a single book. I would love to see /lit/ balkanized into two sections: one for the literature mentioned above, and another for creative, artistic literature such as the novel, short story, and poem

>>22034536
/his/ was a much newer board than /lit/ so by the time they made it philosophy was already a staple here. also jannies never tried to force philosophy or classic language topics to move over there which gave people no incentive to stop posting here

>>22033709
Laozi wasn't real; DDJ is just a paraphrased translation of the teachings of Buddha from Scythian into Middle Chinese.

>>22031100
based william james reader

>>22031003
Reading books is not an identity

>>22030372
This site is obsessed with meta and nothing is more meta than philosophy

>>22036278
zoomers are obsessed with identity because they have none, no matter what they do

>>22034905
>I would love to see /lit/ balkanized into two sections: one for the literature mentioned above, and another for creative, artistic literature such as the novel, short story, and poem
What would be the difference really? I don't see any issue with both of them coexisting on the same board. I think dividing them wouldn't change much, since people who don't read would still engage in philosophy section and vice versa.

>>22034921
Sounds reasonable.

>>22030372
Just know you’re a woman.

>>22030783
>>22030769
>>22031075
>>22031436
I really like the idea at studying at a university and think it’s valuable but I also don’t like people getting uppity and demanding to see a degree credential to prove anything. If you just go to school and then spend your free time on entertainment you’re probably much less intelligent than an autodidact. Too many students these days don’t even do their own studies outside of school days that deviates from the curriculum. >>22034905
That’s also fine. Because when that happens you just end up leading the conversation in a gentle manner and exploring some topics with them. That’s basically what being a teacher is.

>>22037077
>That’s also fine. Because when that happens you just end up leading the conversation in a gentle manner and exploring some topics with them. That’s basically what being a teacher is.

If it’s not literature related, it belongs else where. Learning isn’t literature. This board is already a hodgepodge as it is

>>22030372
feelosofi makes mi luk all deep n intalekchuwal

>>22030781
YWNBAW

>>22030372
>scary abstract concepts, why do people do this???

>>22031075
seething caused by this post lmao

>>22030372
They want feel smart so they read philosophy. Its not that complicated.

>>22031075
Yeah, imagine paying some college to learn about philosophy, when you can just read a bunch of philosophy books. This isn't STEM we're talking about, which need labs, demonstrations, experiments, and updated information. There's barely anything new under the sun in philosophy. Even if there is, you can always buy the philosopher's books and read it yourself.

Not to mention, modern universities aren't the Academy. This isn't ancient Greece, nor the medieval era. We don't need to attended IRL lectures to learn philosophy, since we have the printing press, books, and especially the internet and electronic devices, to read philosophy at the comfort of your house and practically for free.

>>22037416
>They want feel smart

>>22031814
Damn, excuse me Doctor Anon. You’re right, higher education doesn’t create the environment or supplies the tools necessary for higher learning.

You are so wise to observe that true education comes from 20 minute readings of Wikipedia articles every day. Please, Doctor, give us more of your PragerU derivated opinions. You must have your doctorate from that prestigious school.

>>22031882
I never mentioned science. I also specifically said that I enjoy philosophy in my first post >>22030823, just that it's limited in its capacity to reveal Truth. At this point, I genuinely have no idea what you're ranting about, as you seem to have misunderstood what I wrote and are arguing against a straw man.

Also, source on solipsism being "older than philosophy?" I never independently came up with idea, since I'm not a narcissist, and all evidence points to me not being alone in the universe. I heard it from other people who thought they were deep-thinking philosophers, but were really just mentally masturbating. Since it's an unfalsifiable hypothesis, it's completely useless, as the world in which it were true would be indistinguishable from the world in which it weren't. Thus, it's pointless to discuss beyond amusing yourself. I'm guessing you first heard it from other people too. I've never heard a child spontaneously suggest solipsism or anything remotely similar.

>>22031781
I mean, he did go off topic, but what he said was just so retarded, I couldn't let it stand. There are so many braindead takes on this website, it's hard to tell which ones are genuine. But point taken.

>>22038390
>Truth
wow you capitalised it that totally makes it not a worthless midwit spook. something tells me you don't have a very good understanding of science either. read Kuhn
>Also, source on solipsism being "older than philosophy?
it's in some of the oldest upanishads written around 800-600 BC, not spoonfeeding

>>22038390
also intelligent people usually naturally develop extensive theory of mind which includes the problem of qualia and as such an awareness of metaphysical solipsism

>>22037086
>philosophy isn’t literature
Yes it is. The written word is board related, period.

>>22039502
Not if a specific work isn’t quoted. A bunch of uneducated 18 year olds giving their definition of what live is with no sources cited is not literature

>>22039515
*what love is

>>22039515
Discussing literature will inevitably lead to deeper conversations and stimulates the thought process, that’s kind of the point really. Literature is philosophy.

>>22030372
i find your obsession with being a retard weird and unsettling

>>22039626
Yeah. Books for this feel threads are really great for this board

>>22040452
Bros I just ate an entire pepperoni pizza while masturbating to triracial shemale porn.
Also, I forgot to buy more dog food.
Philosophy for this feel?

>>22040452
>Books for this feel threads are really great for this board
Books for this feel?

>>22034011
Correct

>>22040452
>Books for this feel threads are really great for this board
This isn't even related to what anon above said, "books for this feel" is a severe mental disorder, not a philosophy subject

>>22040473

>>22030372
>people who are pretentious enough to unironically read books in this day and age are also pretentious enough to be armchair philosophers
who could have imagined?

>>22041057
Some anons want /lit/ to be /qa/, some anons want /lit/ to be about literature

>>22041406
>some anons want /lit/ to be about literature
Makes sense that /lit/ should be /lit/

>>22041260
Found the nigger.
https://youtu.be/f3PJF0YE-x4?t=208

>>22040470
Postmodernity

You are all fags who need to go outside and stop jerking to cartoons and dead bearded men.