/lit/ - Literature

https://voca.ro/1oyMpN4X4Vmh

something quick, want to expand on it

A male hand traced from Florida to Maine
The curving arrows of Aeolian wars.
You said that later a quartet of bores,
Two writers and two critics, would debate
The Cause of Poetry on Channel 8
A nymph came pirouetting, under white
Rotating petals, in a vernal rite
To kneel before an altar in a wood
Where various articles of toilet stood.
I went upstairs and read a galley proof,
And heard the wind roll marbles on the roof.
"See the blind beggar dance, the cripple sing"
Has unmistakably the vulgar ring
Of its preposterous age. Then came your call,
My tender mockingbird, up from the hall.
I was in time to overhear brief fame
And have a cup of tea with you: my name
Was mentioned twice

I don't really know if I'm tired or happy
A long road becomes short with every foot stepped
It's weird, life is great and then it's crappy
Maybe the long road is better for all the possibility it kept
Maybe a broken promise is better then no oath at all
To presume already that you couldn't achieve
That you knew already you couldn't hear the call
But we still have to walk down that road and try to believe
That the world will finally pay us back for every time our life was stolen
For every fist that left our face swollen
For every night we had to keep rollin'
For every loser that found himself foldin'
For every open door that only let the cold in
For every job our rights were sold in
For every group our secrets were told in
For every year lost that we thought was golden

I'm reading a paper called "'Through Mazes Running' Rhythmic Verve in Milton's L'allegro and Il Penseroso" right now. This passage gave me a stomachache. Also, I've been reading the pure alliterative verse of nursery rhymes and Kipling's “Harp Song of the Dane Women” because the sevens-and-eights of Milton here feel to me so much more than livelier than accentual-syllabic verse. Do you guys have anything related to share, tricks, books, or otherwise?

>>21982306
Post your own poetry
>>21982442
Decent lyrics to a country song performed in a bar by a guy with an acoustic guitar and a cigarette

Chaaw
The people of the Earth
lived in paradise
Lived.
Lived.
The people of the Earth lived
in paradise
Lived. Lived.
Fiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeee on

the hhhhooorrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiizzzooooonnn
men
walk
amongst the flames

>>21982968
Lol thanks dude all that's missing is the chicken fence around the stage and beer bottles thrown unmajestically in a fit of apathy
I think using words like "apprize" is cool but then you go on trying to impress your vocabulary on the reader
Obviously we have very different styles
Still I see the insecurity and voiclessness you feel in your poem and for that I think you're pretty good man

>>21982120
Of the Vanity of the World and the Comfort of the Resurrection
In Four Spenserian Stanzas

“When Cynthia’s steeds from Heaven down descend
To Neptune’s manger by the brackish leas,
Aurora's fingers rosy-red do lend
A vesture o’er the flowers, fields, and trees
To mingle with the morn bird’s melodies.
At such a time my minds first-fruits entice
Desire of Ouroboric fantasies
To drink in lieu of never-sated lice.
Such is my love for thee, sweet sister of my vice!”

Thus as the poetaster’s stifled throat
Quoth verses as he hung upon a Tree
To repay his Lady’s siren songs remote
Which smote his heart, The Man of Galilee
Appeared to give th’Egyptian death decree
With tables tainted like to starless skies.
Condemned to beatific infamy,
He down dropped to his faery lake demise
Before nigh millions of vermilion catfish eyes.

Or so it seemed. Out of the Oriental
Brilliant locks which warmed the poet’s wat’ry tomb
A potence issued forth a penitential
Seed to fecundate his warm noetic womb
To roseate Sharon’s prophetic bloom
Which yields fair fruit of fertilizèd earth.
As when the soot of Phoenix flaming plume
Once served as type for pagan promised mirth,
The living waters too doth help to show rebirth.

The poet recreate descried a barge
With saints intoning Vidi Aquams nigh.
“My Lord, my sword, my harpsichord, my targe!
Th’World’s trellis-work of thorns Thou didst deny
To choke Thy firm-fixed seed. O Adonai
O God of my Salvation, to Thy Cross
My cares they were committed, sent to die
Defeated by congealed blood emboss.
No more, no more my heart shall passing beauty toss!”

bump

If I had to go to war I would
but only until my boots got dirty

I'd carry them in a bag and march
in whatever direction I'd have to go

squelching mud between my toes
pretending I'm a child pretending

someone formed me from mud
before putting a gun in my hands

and showing me the muddy others
carved in lines up the side of a hill

waiting to play with me, bullets,
bombs and those fun afternoons

rolling around together in clouds
of blood rich dirt and smoke

returning ourselves to the earth
to rest until we're made to play again

i grab my heart and toss it towards the sky
it shines on like a long dead star
into the sun, into space, into the wild
rid me of it and its incessant beating

long after im gone she'll look up and see it there
when im buried under flowers and tears
when my bones have become dust and light
wherever she goes my heart will follow

I poured the tearing Torah in cubes
And strapped the cubes upon the curly head,
The beauty's like a flora's diaspora
Despite the people wanting us so dead.

princes, Fasci &
kings in northern Greece, their
pistols torn Fast from
kissed Girls, Porn-Stars from the nor-
thern end of the beach

driving his Truck the Fasco
dry from the wet, Grecian rain took
the Girls in Trucks
their curling, wet, Grecian
hair & Gloves around
pistols, they Fucked
his gang of Fasci, Fascio

invoking Evocations
the Mage-King's Invocation, Bleistein
evoked his Evocation of
kabbalah, invoking Golem,
cabbalist Gloved

lighting Cigarillo with
lightning-Symbol of Schutzstaffel
S S the Boys slung Guns &
guessed, Drunk the Girls' Secrets as the
radio Played White Noise, Waffles
toasted by Girls with Guns
roasting
fine Meats to put on Buns with
wine for
the Drunkards

the Boys left for Rome while
the Girls' card-playing
made them feel at Home;
spades in Hand, Peasants whiling
along Country Roads leading up to
the City of Rome as
the Fasci played Guitars,
strumming
chords with Hands of Skill;
bored, from Country Windows
farm-Girls dreamt Carnalities
harmed
by the Fascist Peasant-Boys of
various Nationalities

in Rome the Lombard-Girl awaited
her Roman Fasco, Tall & Fair
with a Cigarillo in his
Mouth
the Roman Fasco's Skin was like White
marble like the Skin of a Girl
from Northern Lombardy with Lips
Crimson & Baby-Soft, his Hound
barking Epileptically, bound
by a Leash amidst Rain as a
radio Played,
trucks Screeching through
the Rain
as Teenage Fasci,
parking their Fascist
trucks with Rifles slung Fucked
teenage Girls with Skin as White as
marble, their Daggers
ripping Clothes to reveal White
alabaster

speeding Across Croatian Soil,
taking Drugs like
speed, the Boys Listened
to Crap Music on
radios as they
sped past the Bavarian Peasant-
boys near the Bavarian Peasant-
girls as the Suabian Coast
came in to View

& sailing across British Seas, Bleistein
evoking Kabbalah as Synagogues
erupted Holocausts of Flame,
Fasci reaching London's Lodge
burning to the Ground in Shame, Bleistein
dragging Swords across Lodge's Foyer

flying Far across the Sky as
lightning Struck against Flame, turbanned
jihadi With The
lightning-Symbols
of the Schutzstaffel
descending For
jihad, Striking
bleistein as He
descended From
stairs, Evoking
numerologies As
fasci With
lightning-Symbols & Swastikas
descended upon Flame

Down by the salley gardens
my love and I did meet;
She passed the salley gardens
with little snow-white feet.
She bid me take love easy,
as the leaves grow on the tree;
But I, being young and foolish,
with her would not agree.

In a field by the river
my love and I did stand,
And on my leaning shoulder
she laid her snow-white hand.
She bid me take life easy,
as the grass grows on the weirs;
But I was young and foolish,
and now am full of tears.

Can someone explain to me how the first line in the second stanza works so well? It's missing a beat. Is it because it has the expected syllables? I would not think so as we cannot usually distinguish syllable count anyways.

There's drugs

Have you ever felt young love? That shit takes me higher

It's sexy, sexy as fuck

We're laughing even at unfunny things

Is it a slice of heaven?

So call me in

Call me again

Young lover

I'm yours

To keep forever.

That's what young love is...

It's now or never.

>>21982618
I come bearing gifts. I found this diagram today in another paper called "Beyond Metrics Richard Cureton's Rhythmic Phrasing in English Verse". However, I couldn't find Cureton's book itself in PDF. If you have it, please do share. I think this diagram illustrates wonderfully the relationship between the rhythm and grammar of a line.

This is the first poem I've written to completion since my school days - wrote it around Christmas. I was attempting to access something sub/unconscious, and I was also reading lots of T. S. Eliot who is an obvious influence on it. If it has any merit or is irredeemable garbage, please let me know. Cheers

Looking for feedback on this sonnet. I'll read the thread and reply in a moment. I can't tell whether this is trite or clever.

>>21985781
Im not the best at Scansion but heres my rendering of the rhythm (1 most stress, 4 least):
2_4__1_|_2_4_1_4
in a field | by the river

Note the 1_2 spondee foot in the middle. This, in a sense, forces you to insert a silent 'syllable.' which makes it look like trochaic tetrameter. This however disagrees with an apparent double anapest meter for the line. So there is an illusion of 2, 3, and 4 stressed syllables, all at once. Which is why it's fun to say out loud. I suspect you aren't looking into the meter and just counting the syllables. I say this because lines 1 and 3 have different meters ("Down by" is a trochee, while "she passed" is an iamb). There's nothing wrong with not concerning yourself over it, especially if you gut-check it over and over, but learning more about meter would probably help you get lines like this more intentionally in the future. As for content, its a cute poem, if simple. it's high energy and lively. Feels like something a leprechaun would sing as he skips through the town. Rilke suggests you avoid love poetry at first as it is "too facile and commonplace." And I am wont to agree, though I fall for the love poem trap too often myself.

>>21986297
My interlibrary loan may have access to it. No promises though. Richard Cureton has published in the periodical Style published by Penn State, you may be interested. Picrel.

>>21984917
imagine killing yourself over a girl.

>>21984836
Its definitely interesting, i personally have no experience on the battlefield, but this sounds like a fantasy, perhaps propaganda. i like the thread of mud, but perhaps include a deeper vocabulary, made of clay, made of adams rib, covered in guck, planted in soil, so on so forth. love line 6 'pretending im a child pretending' I also think it could benefit from a more solemn tone, but no one will out to the waste land so maybe joviality is warranted here.

>>21983325
i appreciate the interlinear rhyming, its decadant. its clear you have a command of rhyme. this is certainly one of the more complex poems ive read recently. It filtered me at first, so thanks for that humility check. Maybe carefully uncapitalize certain lines to better communicate the grammatical structure. you have absolutely stuffed it full of references, and i dont know many of them off the top of my head to be fair, perhaps the imagery could stand more on its own? but of course its fun to flex, and talk about nerd shit, so i get it. I really love that each stanza is its own thing, and the symmetry of beginning and ending with the poets words showing his change of character. its thick, weighty, and demands consideration. congratulations, i am sure this took great efforts.

>>21987756
I love this. Reading it makes me want to know you. Maybe that’s weird to say.

>>21987944
It is a Yeats poem. I did read for the meter. However, you seem to think there is a pause between field and by. I read it as two anapests, which is why I said it was missing a beat. I do not see how you get a spondee. Unless you are reading it as a 1234 rising rhythm. If it does have a pause, which I think might exist due to the syntactic unit, then I think that with add emphasis to by. I do not understand at all what you mean by illusion of 234 stressed syllables. Also, if you could put a PDF of it up on library genesis that would be amazing. Any examples and illustrations in your own plain language might be even better though. I think I read something similar to your picture. Perhaps in one of Derek Attridge's books. Can you recapitulate what that model shows? It obviously has to do with phrasing, but do these categories modulate the stresses?

>>21988053
'field by' is a spondee! no?? if you look at my scansion rendering again, I posit that the 2s can be perceived as stressed or unstressed depending on the approach to performance. but also, as naive as I probably seem to you by now, anapests are kinda 'long' feet as well, no??
>Also, if you could put a PDF of it up on library genesis that would be amazing.
if you mean the book, interlibrary loan can take up to 10 business days, and summer just started so it might take longer. plus I would have to scan it, which would take time as well. unless you mean the articles he submitted to Style, which I would be willing to upload to libgen for you, but if you could let me know which articles you want? and please don't say "all of them."
>I think I read something similar to your picture. Perhaps in one of Derek Attridge's books. Can you recapitulate what that model shows? It obviously has to do with phrasing, but do these categories modulate the stresses?
Citation of picture: Cureton, Richard. "A Reading in Temporal Poetics: Wordsworth's "It Is a Beauteous Evening"." Style, vol. 54 no. 2, 2020, p. 207.
the essay is a complex analysis of the poem mentioned in the title. The figure i posted is illustrating the "cyclical and centroidal motion" (207) of these lines. it compares the way that these lines rise up and fall forward in anticipational and extensional ways to affect the temporality and energy of the section of poem in question. Thats the best i can put it, it's hard filtering. Picrel is the surrounding pages.

Also, please look at my sonnet and give me your thoughts.

>>21987944
Thanks, it did take me a while to write, but for the most part I was just taking notes from Spenser, the Bible, Baudelaire, Dante, and Frater, with the form of the poem mostly taking influence from Spenser and Frater. Nothing revolutionary, just a pastiche poem.

>>21988175
its all pastiche these days isnt it?

>>21988183
It kind of always was

Bakker makes me cream. Motherfucker reigns supreme. Ballin like Abdul Kareem. Goin ahead: Full steam. Bursting at the seam. So many chains: A-Team. Killing bitches like Idi Amin. Step away from this crime scene.
*mic drop*

>>21987944
Did you really consider this >>21984836 some sort of pro-war propoganda? I wrote it as a pisstake of the typical basement dwelling general, and the casual war mongering that circles the internet. I wrote it childishly because anyone with a brain knows otherwise

Here's a short one I wrote for a friend recently.

in nectar search,
on petals perched,
she drinks the world anew.

at journey's end,
my cherished Friend
will bring her Hive to you.

>>21987944
>1_2 spondee
>>21988148
I was referring to this part. Is that not you say it is a spondee? I am not sure if anapests have an actual temporal duration longer than an iamb besides obviously having more syllables. I would venture to say no. I would say they are negligibly similar. Frater might know. As for which papers I would like, I don't know. I haven't looked into what was there but I would guess they would already be uploaded to libgen. After looking at your picture though, I am a bit baffled. It seems that he is pointing out that there is syntactical balances throughout the development of the poem. I do not hear how it modulates the stresses. Especially, if he is implying that lines at the end of the poem can be affected by lines at the beginning. I do not think the mind functions with such a large window. Also, I do not like your poem. I do not understand why it ends with I'm dead, what a blue effect is; I do not like how disjointed it feels, and I'm not impressed. I try not to critique poems much though because I'm really harsh and picky. I am lukewarm on most art, if not outright bored by or distasteful.

>>21988989
>some sort of pro-war propoganda?
no. i said fantasy, perhaps propaganda. that is, fantasy that operates AS propaganda through the structures of power.

>>21986982
I really liked your poem! Can you please explain what does the main refrain of "And the hand made 93" mean? I would really like to hear your self-interpretation.

>>21985781
I can explain in a little while, this is actually a verse of yeats I’ve studied for some time due both to its popularity and being interested in this version of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuoVC2vkOXc

But i’ll explain later.

>>21989447
What? You sound like a politician, or a journalist, the semanitcs are so think it is near impossable to distinguish the two. By that definition what is not propoganda? Whatever you choose, I guess. Let the meme wars live, right?

>>21989507
you should read discipline and punish, honest recommendation.

>>21989489
Thanks I'm glad. Yeah so it's got a couple of meanings but the primary one is a reference to traditional Persian finger counting, where the number 93 was represented with a closed fist. Some poets way back would refer to a lack of generosity as a person's hand making 93, so that's sort of what I was getting at - also there's the obvious quite violent image of a fist in there as well

>>21989512
Gonna need a decent reason first, plenty other books already on my reading list, and you're not filling me with any feeling but your condescension, honestly

>>21989503
I preferred the version where Yeats performs it himself. Also, do you want to comment on this post: >>21982618
We have talked about gaud and how it influences us. I don't like the traditional Anglo-Saxon meter in modern English but this post summarizes where my head is at right now with what inspires me; the alliterative verse in nursery rhymes and in that Kipling poem sounds so much more natural. I have three questions for you: do you have another essay of yours I can read, one which goes into the rhythms of rap music? Do you have an opinion on Ciceronian in style versus Senecan style? Do you read novels or short stories? I would be interested to know what kind of fiction you would like, because I can't imagine what would fit your tastes.

>>21989581
Cool.

>>21985781
DOWN by/ the SAL/ee GARD/en
my LOVE/ and I/ did MEET/
SH PASSED/ the SAL/ey GARD/en,
with LIT/le SNOW/white FEET.
she BID/ me TAKE/ love EASE/ee,
as the/LEAVES GROW/ on the TREE;
but i BE/ing YOUNG/and FOOL/ish
with HER/would NOT/a-GREE/

in a FIELD/ by the RIV/er
my LOVE/ and I/ did STAND,
And ON/ my LEAN/ing SHOULD/er
she LAID/ her SNOW/white HAND.
She BID/ me TAKE/ life EASE/ee,
as the/GRASS GROWS/ on the WEIRS/
but I/was YOUND/ and FOOL/ish,
and NOW/am FULL/ of TEARS/

for most of the poem we have a back and forth of 7 syllables then 6, 7 then 6, the major break being the penultimate line of the first stanza which is the only 8th syllable line, otherwise we’re seeing a focus on two principles, that short lines sound more musical in general even if not perfectly equivalent, and that anapestic rhythms can be used almost interchangeably with iambic with some subtle effects that can be beneficially used, the reason the opening line of the second feels good is because it’s both a return to the 7-6 syllable pattern you’ve grown accustomed to, and the simple fact that anapests sound like a more energetic iamb, the repeated usage of a non-metrical unstressed syllable is also making you unaccustomed to a repetitive fall on certain lines, which goes a long way to making the anapest line sound regular since it’s still obeying that convention. the usage of either accent or syllable count and going between these to maintain the music is a common trick in folk ballads, of which yeats basically fully stole from in this poem, here’s the original.


You rambling boys of pleasure, give ear unto these words I write,
I own I am a rover, and in rambling I take great delight.
I have set my heart on a handsome maid, but often-times she does me slight.
And my mind is never easy, only when my true love is in sight.

Down by yon flowery garden, where my true love and I did meet,
I took her in my arms, and kisses to her I gave sweet.
She bade me take life easy, just as the leaves fall from yonder tree.
Ah but I being young and foolish, with my true love I could not agree.


Cont

>>21990189
And the second time I saw my love, sure I thought her heart was nearly mine.
But as the weather changes, my darling girl she changed her mind.
Gold is the root of evil, but each wears a glittering hue,
Oh it’s many's the lad and lass did part, but their hearts, like mine, be e'er so true.

And I wish I was in Amerikay, and my true love along with me.
Money in our pockets, to keep us in good company.
Liquor to be a-plentiful, a flowing bowl at every side,
And hard fortune ne'er would daunt us, for we are young and the world is wide.


we again see similar principles of “similar” syllable count though obviously of a more wild form without that repeating unstressed patterning between lines, so the reason it works is it’s working on an ear basis, this usage of shifti between accent amounts while maintaining stress and vice versa is not an unknown technique but can be very effective.

Bound by an Altered Beast in sixteen bits
Mount my Mega Drive
Controller sweaty in my hands sits
My wolfman is still alive

>>21982618
I’ve read the paper and looked into the specific lines myself, my recs would be hopkins, Swinburne, Coleridge when doing accentual and looking into ballad/folk song, and on the other angle, the greatest controllers of verse like Sidney and Shakespeare can be found to be doing similar tricks in their song or such extreme metrical manipulation that it may as well be.

>>21989726
do you have another essay of yours I can read, one which goes into the rhythms of rap music?

I’ve written about this but honestly the question of rap rhythms is best understood by approaching with an understanding that it has 3 modes, very tight meter, an accentual meter, and a meter which while maintaining similar syllable counts like that above ballad, will actually intentionally force in more stresses for staccato and work on repeating of strange rhythms for a multitude of effects, the problem is being unique in these questions is one of the most essential questions in technical rap, to give some examples, these are both from the song “greed on earth” by ransom and Royce, first six lines of each’s verse.

TURN your/ BACK and/ they'll SHOVE/ a KNIFE/ in your RIBS/
a FA/ther RAIS/in a GUN/ while his SON/ is FIGHT/in' a BID/
i-RON/ic 'CAUSE/ he AINT/ REAL-ee/ have NOTH/ing NICE/er to GIVE/
You LIVE/ the LIFE/ that you LOVE/,
Then you'll LOVE/ the LIFE/ that you LIVE
So WHATS/ the PRICE/ if you DID?

first is opening with a strong trochaic pattern then reverts to an iambic with the final foot continuously being an anapest, while the first and second lines have a difference in stress amount it’s literally only one and the assonance effectively annihilates the practical difference between them, the fact of it being a strong assonanced iambic pattern is enough to maintain it with the third line, the trochaic sub in the middle is perfectly metrically normal, the assonance and alliteration again maintaining the rhythm and speed which is why in the shorter iambic lines the alliteration is maximized to maintain the musicality while the shortness of the syllables giving a much needed variability in contrast to the previous long lines, thus the repetition and L-alliteration being used to enhance the force of the stresses so that the rhythm doesn’t fall off.

love-what, price-life, live-did

now let’s check the much better rapper on the song Royce.

in-VEST/ our SPEND/in' in CARS/and BIKES/
co-LECT/ our STIM/ul-is STARS/ and STRIPES/
We LEFT/ our WIM/in with SCARS/ and GRIPES/
In DEATH/ I'll REM/in-is STARVE/in' NIGHTS/
MA-ma/ SENT me/to HELP/ out MIN/ie to/BARR/ow some RICE/
Them JAIL/ bars IM/in-int, GUARDS/ and FIGHTS

first four lines are almost perfectly assonanced and clearly demonstrate a continuous irregular meter, this

Cont

>>21990334
replication over and over of the same irregular meter is imo the great trick of the strange vitality in good rap lyric, after these four Royce uses a “catch “ method which is very reminiscent in meter to what ABBA does with rhyme, by placing an alliterative rhyming LONGER line after the established pattern and then returning to said pattern, you create a controlled chaos within the sound which sounds wild and forceful but since there’s enough sinew given by sharing some assonance it doesn’t feel prosaic nor does it tumble over, and it gives a sense of satisfaction by returning to that final metrical pattern in the sixth line, again this return to normality being amplified by the assonance pattern returning.
>Do you have an opinion on Ciceronian in style versus Senecan style?

In the broadest sense insofar as, I believe Cicero’s middle style is probably the best on average and his approach of replicating and combining styles of various type is the true method of literary refinement, I also agree with Quintilian’s critique of Seneca as corrupt in style/in-elegant due to a reliance on cheap brevity and a rhetoric based in philosophical height of mind being used as a part of bludgeon, if I am being honest I am probably most in agreement with the asiatic rhetorical school that both men opposed.

>Do you read novels or short stories?

I do just at a much lower amount than poetry, my favorite prose writer is probably dunsany as a whole, dunsany and Clark Ashton smith’s short stories are basically always pleasurable, I’m a big fan of Gerard de nerval, in terms of less stylistically packed stuff, I really enjoy Balzac’s Études philosophiques grouping of novels with Seraphita as one of my favorite novels, obviously I’m into Melville, love Goethe’s Wilhelm Meister's Apprenticeship, MP shiel and MR James and Hans Heinz Ewers are all very good, Imma stop since this is just gonna become a big list.

Basically I like a novel or short story with minimal humanity/personality and ideally high prose style and if possible a high amount of strange/exotic mystical aesthetics, so like Flaubert’s Anthony is great.

>>21983027
>>21982968
These two retards fighting is the best poetry here.
Any ways heres my poem about like uh being afraid of the dark and stuff
OCCULTA

Secret joy of tyrant lords
mysteries like seven knot cords
Enemy of heavens hordes

Ominous Appalachian woods
Thrones which shamans stood
Acolyte with shaded hood

Shades steep in the lamp light
Liminal pools in the deep night
Dark force that forged, scepter right!

Perilous push through dark corridors
Cold breath on that nape of yours

I speak of that fear behind thee, you product of ancient whore
No matter what one believes one cannot change what nature has bred for
Easily Cajoled by gnawing anxiety,
Roused by howls of a tyrants horn
Evolution God, bestowed upon you minds of prey
To be lead by shepards To the day

>>21990189
>but i BE/ing YOUNG/and FOOL/ish
Here I read but EYE/ and being like bing. 7 syllables.>>21990189
>feels good is because it’s both a return to the 7-6 syllable pattern you’ve grown accustomed to
But I thought we didn't register syllables as much as stress? Why here? It lacks a beat.
>fact that anapests sound like a more energetic iamb
I never considered subsuming iambs and anapests to a shared category and that that can have aural effects. What about dactyls and trochees? What can you do with those?
>>21990189
>repeated usage of a non-metrical unstressed syllable is also making you unaccustomed to a repetitive fall on certain lines
This is good. I was thinking line-by-line. I hadn't considered the looseness heard overall leaving the ear unhooked.
>in a FIELD/ by the RIV/er
Agreed.
>>21990334
>in the shorter iambic lines the alliteration is maximized to maintain the musicality while the shortness of the syllables giving a much needed variability in contrast to the previous long lines
I'm having trouble comprehending. Aren't lines 4 & 5 still a long line divided?
>what ABBA does with rhyme
So SENT & MIN creates a tension which the BAR & RICE relieves, thus permits the extrametricality? Are SPEND, STIM, etc. necessary for this effect?

I haven't read some of those. I think you know I like myths & fairytales. Dunsany's Elfland is great. Melville, Tolkien, Don Quixote, Lolita. I'm not sure what you mean by humanity. Psych analysis? Verisimilitude? I hold that characters should be conspicuous. A lot of realistic characters are forgettable.

To ever onwards, where know no mother
And father speaking, he falls together
From both these holding, against another
It’s highs and lows run with the weather

On trails to meet me, crossroads divided
The same goes back, to one beginning
The only difference being what’s been decided
So less to lose is always winning

But hold none worthy to what is worthless
For I am a being of loose incision
Which lasts on soil cannot be earth less
To be a maker, it’s his decision

Deranged and driving the finished altar
It’s mask is vapid, with smoke it toils
With all things rushing, they still must falter
And back to love it wholly coils

>>21983325
How does one learn to write like this?

>>21990767
Read, read, and read a metric fuckton of poetry, look up what is scansion and a prosodic foot, and read the Bible.

>>21990669
> Here I read but EYE/ and being like bing. 7

While this is logical, if this was the intent he should have presented it such by writing it b’ing honestly, I also think it flows more sensibly as an anapestic in the context of the prior double iamb.

> But I thought we didn't register syllables as much as stress? Why here? It lacks a beat.

We do not, doesn’t mean that syllable count isn’t heard at all, you’re also neglecting that the anapest by its natural ability to sound faster/more forceful than the iamb could be argued to be making up for the lack, not in a metrical way but in an aural way.

> What about dactyls and trochees? What can you do with those?

Swinburne has done much with this, it can allow for a hopping between a more muscular verse and a more violent verse again without losing the predominant rhythm pretty well, my argument for this being fine is to test it yourself or to look at the attempts of those who have done it, such as Swinburne.

> Aren't lines 4 & 5 still a long line divided?

Kinda, it’s again an attempt at that “catch” you can read it as a long line, though I would argue the sixth line is showing the fourth and fifth while coming fast aren’t one line.

> So SENT & MIN creates a tension which the BAR & RICE relieves, thus permits the extrametricality? Are SPEND, STIM, etc. necessary for this effect?

Close, rather the repetition of the vowel of “sent” is creating the sense that this new line is somehow connected with the last but the great difference in vowels creates the tension which is finally relieved with “barrow some rice” and then caught with the final line fully “guards and fights”

Here’s another song where Royce does the effect

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw5mSZaUVqI&pp=ygUKTWFkZSByb3ljZQ%3D%3D

You can hear him Doing this stanza “ To be alone at the top, you niggas born for the mezzanine
It ain't nothing for a corny nigga to get on
And spread corny nigga syndrome, it's sickening
It's going around with the quickness
Like a Hollywood wedding ring“

Which demonstrates the intentional loss and regaining of rhythm and rhyme to increase satisfaction.

>Psych analysis? Verisimilitude?

Both, I don’t care in the majority of cases for characters as characters, nor their psychology nor any question of realism, I mostly also don’t care for narrative by majority, rather I see the characters and story as in service to the beauty of images and sounds available. I reckon the majority of novels see the sounds and senses as being subjugated to character and narrative and philosophy, I am opposed to this.

>>21990799
my thanks.

>>21990824
>I also think it flows more sensibly as an anapestic in the context of the prior double iamb.
I have a tin ear. I hear the obvious difference but don't feel a preference. How do I tell?
>>21990824
>making up for the lack
I don't get this argument. How can a qualitative difference substitute for a quantitative one?

>Swinburne
Which of his poems would you use as an example?
>You can hear him Doing this stanza
Okay think I see it. There are two things that create the tension. The buildup of those short vowels and borrow rice. But because borrow rice is a part of this ultimate rhyme scheme, we can return to it in the next line. What is confusing me though is the 7 foot line. It sticks out to the eye but I don't know if it sticks out to the ear.
>subjugated to character and narrative and philosophy
I probably believe this but I would call it complementarity. You sound more like an aesthete here. I do not see the utility of sights and sounds for the sake of themselves. I want them to conjoin to objects for the purpose of pleasure and meaning. I want to share ideas and experiences, but ideas are worth more.

>>21990389
>These two retards fighting is the best poetry here.
how empty is your head that you think that was a negative interaction?

>>21991543
wasn't really paying attention just thought I ought to say something and not just throw the poem out into the void you faggot. kill yourself or say something about my poem pussy pussy pussy pussy faggot

>>21990824
Sir, I'd like to know
why do you like Bertiaux
Whatever I give up on the poem since I'm lazy, you seem to like him but not G. Knight, wondering why that is. Knight seems cool since he has written a lot of cool stuff about Arthurian legends and is more "orthodox", Bertiaux seems highly eclectic and not always in good ways.

>>21989605
>You sound like a politician, or a journalist, the semanitcs are so think it is near impossable to distinguish the two.
discipline and punish is a book about why this is actually true. its about the power process and how it works, more specifically how it changed from antiquity to now. i didnt mean to come off as condescending anon, apologies for that. one thing it explains really well is the way that propaganda tends to make itself rather than being a concerted effort. its a great book for explaining all the conspiracy theories in a way that not only makes more sense than crackpots saying its lizard aliens, but also gives ample reason to believe it. if you are open minded about what the nature of power is, it offers an extremely insightful glimpse. again, i apologise for sounding condescenting. i didnt meant to. i meant "honest recommendation" in an earnest way.

>>21992209
Dude, that stuff is all obvious, nor sure I need to read the book to get a better thinkers even more robust arguments as to why people just cut each other's throats because there is really only need to justify why not to.

The simple fact of the matter is as follows as far as I can tell: anyone who is given any power's first and only solemn duty is to maintain the avenues through which that power was given them

Appologies in return. We should go fight in a field some time, you and me and just one camera the whole world can't stop watching

Showers cold,
bread is old,
no wood for the fire,

new household,
tile tenfold,
no wood to admire,

womans bold,
forward fold,
no wood for her either,

I should’ve been a lumberjack.

I know not what I seek
In a world so utterly bleak
But my soul burns asunder, despite the heavy blunders
The agony is endurable
However the time is unbearable

A hope in my heart
Hollow it may be
Swallows me whole
and lets me wallow in it completely

>An. Ekphrasis.
I. Deserve. Better. Men.
You. Always. Hate. Periods.
I'm. Late. For. Mine.

>>21993001
>>21992726
kitsch

>>21990767
Be a retard haha

Yon starry Muses of lofty heights unknown,
The modern path is perilous to roam,
Return the Tollund man aback to loam,
For electronic-girls receive the dogs and giveth bones...

240. The Seventh Day

There is a certain
state of mind that
abstracts me from
the thought of Me
where Present, Past
and Future find
a common ground
and cease to be

There my dissolving
sense of self
co-mingles with
the magnitude of
each occurring
“greater” thing
which equally
lands meaningless
and all becomes
as platitude

There isn’t then
a path or purpose
no course ahead
no way before
how could such things
of hollow substance
satisfy a need
for more?

There in that realm
without an inside
where the external
turns Me out
I sublimate in
the Eternal
and nothing’s left
not even doubt

If there is
an Overbeing
by whose image
my own clay
was fired
I must conclude
to be All-Seeing
is simply endless
being tired.

>>21993706
Hey, sailor. Good poem.

can only hope this is less depressing to read then it was to write.


> micz.substack.com/p/not-quite-bloomsbury


Am tempted to just post a sad frog and call the poem ‘Frens’

>>21994319
Hello again.
Has it been a month already?
Christ, this one is even sadder than the last one. I like how it's about friendships going wrong rather than relationships, you are not crying over a girl. And the last stanza is really excellent aswell.
Top marks

>>21994319
>Beyond one’s bid to just get in and shine.
Does bid here mean endeavor, obligation, or request?

>>21994370
it comes from Boswell

> During this argument, Goldsmith sat in restless agitation, from a wish to get in, and shine. Finding himself excluded, he had taken his hat to go away,

I liked it as a description of clever people trying to outshine one another.
So it's bid as in 'wish'
as in 'bid someone farewell'
I just like the image of people sitting around the table throwing their 'bids' in terms of wit .

>>21994350
Two weeks. I've been just about keeping to my schedule. All though i may be busy next month.
And thank you. i usually hate my poems by the time im finished with them but im really happy about this for some reason.

>>21994426
I think wish synonymizes with request. Bid is a lovely word.

>>21994319
Wow I think you've outdone all of us. This is standout good

I guess it really is just a normal life
With normal people and normal sights
With normal vegetables that are cut by a normal knife
With normal clouds and normal lights
With no angels or demons or even a fairy
With no adventure or magic or anything scary
Just a normal Earth that obeys the law
Just a brain and some eyes that saw
I ask God everyday to let me die
But that's just another sad lie
Because throughout all of time
And with every silly crime
The truth slowly came to reveal
That we're alone with plastic and steel
Greater men than me have crossed the abyss
And I really doubt I'm one they'll miss
So get it over with, do it quick
There is no maker, there is no death
Just a revolting feeling that makes me sick
I don't even have a pencil to draw my last breath

Bump

>>21994540
bretty good. slow, circumspect, and at the same time dismissive, careless.

>>21993706
Not bad desu

>>21994319
Decent overall, definitely higher quality than most of what gets posted here

>>21994319
Don’t listen to these anons, fren. The poem is fucking shit.

>>21994319
>then

on the floor sour and dead
with a halo above my head
empty streets and moving cars,
my body rots under the indffrent stars

cigarette smoke and people walk by
never knew me or that i died
my corpse shines under downtown lights
all alone on a clear evening night

Wretched desire
A teenage hangover
You never recover from
Those early Summer feelings

Do they even know
Those cruel girls?
As nature elevates them
And lacking boys collapse

A leg touched mine
The universe glitched in me
Dumb and impotent
Before puzzled blue eyes

It festers for life
This losers lost chance
All still unbuttoned, ungroped
Those impossible pleasures

What a burden
Those ignorant and perfect nymphs
You keep waiting
But Summer never comes
Anymore

>>21997615
Hate it

>>21994319
Not bad. Needs to flow better but Is fine otherwise

>>21982120
You guys better watch what you say
My daddies in the C.I.A.

His people will shoot up the school
And the journalists will blame you.

>>21999707
School and you don't rhyme

>>21989192
is your friend a bee

>>21990570
oof that's florid

>>21994540
why have you guys become so enamored with rhyming

>>21985556
schitzstaffel

>>21984836
oh semblance of the age

hush hush now
quiet
the sound is coming
and when it comes
we are helpless
at its totalizing mercy
the only way we stand a chance of surviving
is if we don't give into it
by making so much
as a peep or whimper or anything
above the decibels from a heartbeat
although fear will coax
rather attempt to coax
sound from your terrified self
you must not yield
no
you must not yield
now hush
it is time to be silent
ill give you the signal when its over

>>21999763
Sorry, pretend I said skoo instead

>>22000046
the only thing i'll pretend to do is not be gay so i don't disappoint my dad who also is pretending to not be gay, a fact i know because he willingly let me molest him from when I was four years old til about twenty-six years old

this some real sweet shit

>>21991048
> I don't get this argument. How can a qualitative difference substitute for a quantitative one?

Simple, exact quality as determined by meter isn’t the final say, it’s a tool but knowing how to weave between is literally just a question of skill, no easy way about it, the sinew simply was enough yaknow?

> Which of his poems would you use as an example?

Give hymn of proserpine a read.

> aesthete here.

Oh undoubtedly, the aesthetic and decadent movements are things I pretty much unabashedly shill, I just believe that such aesthetics are compatible with art as means of praise and contemplation of God, I really believe you can share more qualia and more beautifully display ideas via the focus on the aesthetic, now I ultimately believe plainly written and technical philosophy is gonna be the ultimate in actual useful transmitting of ideas, but if you tend to prefer idea and think ideas so central to verse and prose there’s really no room to argue, you have to obey your principles.

>>21992049
Bertiaux’s good is precisely in the imaginative and wide range and fiction usage he has, it’s genuinely very hard to get into since he pretends to be basically a retard, a folk Mongoloid, presents his model as if true when it’s really a much more meta approach to philosophy and religion, based on the “as-if” kantian derivative philosophy and the application of Dali’s paranoia-critical method as used by Kenneth grant, it is by no means simple but some of the most veiled material publicly available, certainly most veiled that claims to be for beginners!

The Shadow of Neptune

in ancient mind, where dignity’s alive,
i find among the broken column stones,
the lines once sung in Rome with solemn tones,
where sacred signs, and imageries sublime,

of sanguine vines, and symmetries aligned,
desirous and bold with august hold,
where tireless the golden blossoms grow,
full laden by, infinity’s design,

denote the notes, the growing perfumed scent,
serene the green, repeating hallowed oaths,
i see the sheen, the gleaming grotto’s ghost,
who knows the soul, and groaning wormwood’ breath;

“I hold the goal, the gloaming purlieux dreamt,
redeem by speech, my speaking follow home,
for each is me, thy being swallowed whole,
my scroll unrolled, invoking virtues blessed,”

from shoal to shore! amain in liquids pace,
the flow and roar! i chase the shadowed spires!
now open door! i raise the astrol fires!
the oceans pour! I trace with riv’let spray;

thou Oldest Lord, I pray thy imaged face,
with hope to soar, i rage this shallow mire,
with potent force, past nature’s chapol choir,
i goeth forth, with stranger vision’s flame;

garland’ with skulls, with serpent ornaments,
pylons below, effaced of everything!
zion unknown! with nameless ecstasy,
darkness embossed! with fervent orisin;

garden occult! my person’s origin!
icons ensouled! my lays their Melodies,
pythons of throat, their tangled energy;
argent and Gold! the Pearl and porcelain!

Ineffable God, by this Will your own,
your Tongue to sing Praise, and to speak to earth;
your son the King slain, for he preached your word,
incredible God, by your rills and Bones!

intestinal God, who has filled the comb,
with blood thy streams gave, by that bleeded firth,
the flood’s extreme waves, from the secret murth!
insep’rable God, who is still enthroned,

yours is the dry bones of the skeleton,
blanched white by light and cleaned by whiter worm,
whose bite shall strike the eastern spider first,
who spins the five zones of the elements,

who lids the eyes closed from the genuine,
by brighter sights with deeper dyes of verth,
but heights where icy beams of light have birth,
shall linn the white snow for a medicine,

Cont

>>22000252
which salves the wounds of all intoxicants,
the Gangrene made clean of corruption’s taint,
the fading days seen not in rusted shades,
the common beauties wrought from godliness,

the body beauty’s cloth per Plotinus,
for Change brings great things the beloved has made,
the same leaves change sheen but still one shared name,
the Problem’s truly thought’s unconsciousness,

adroit with voice my joys the void uncoiled,
with poise destroy the pointless poison’s soil,
anoint with noise the poignant ointment toiled,
rejoice conjoint with oyster’s foison moiled,

this Royal cloister-coign deployed to foil,
to foist disloyal choices ploy’d as oil,
to hoist the boy aroint by cloy despoiled,
by coins and toys his joints his loins to boil!

tremulous this, the precipice of bliss,
above the bower built with letters bound,
a hundred towers filled with treasured sounds,
edifices, the endless-knit abyss,

genesis gives, unsensuous ground twists,
by love and power Will is ever wound,
the sun and flowers stilled in fetters bound,
evidence this, the testament exists,

aloft on high I fly the pinnet sky,
with leap and stride i seize the frosty peaks,
and see the lying dream some bah-relief,
basalt inside though hide by vivid dye,

this wannish rind I’ll pry its skin with might,
I’ll see it right I’ll breach the glossy sheen,
deceived not by its seeming mossy green,
it’s raw it’s ripe it’s right there rip it try!

from flesh of fruit, falling down trickuling,
to fens and pools, bethesda stirring up,
afresh to fumes, from heaven’s burning love,
it spreads in full, fathoms full-glistening,

the reddened moon, phantom forms shimmering,
inlets monsoon, the levees burst and bust,
now death is loose, and ev’ry word is hushed,
my breath shall boom, chanting and mimicking;

with multitudinous-mouthed mimicry,
marking my maker’s mental mysteries,
marching the mazy-many miseries,
this moaning music must be ministry,

to show a luminous epitome,
dark but each ray has shed iniquity,
stars of the grave immense divinity,
as though delusive suns in syzygy;

with consummate love blessed the coarse rose whole,
with all grandeur of light enfolding here,
its raw matter one bright and golden sphere,
in consequence the metamorphosed soul,

Cont

>>22000259
(for opulence the metaphor chose shows,)
the lost ashlar is “I” who lone appears,
who Dawns after Dawn’s timeless flow of years,
with providence to press the door so closed,

the door, eternity just steps away,
its form, so nervously I pass there through,
implored, uncertainty surpassed I move,
i storm! more fervidly i fret and race!

i swore! to earnestly know splendor’s face,
it’s borne! past earth and sea to glance a view,
the Lord, who perfectly had said the truth,
was born! his birth and being ever changed;

to know the woes that hold hostage the man,
that bring each thing to weep wailing in pain,
to grieve with fleeting sleep failing in strangth,
In hold hell’s hold held hold blotted and damned,

but throes and groans atone bought by the splash,
of streams that cleaned us each, paling his face,
the King’s last Heave we breathe, scaling past space,
alone arose the rose flawless yet man,

with spotless pride transcending even day,
in monstrous light my flesh of Phoenix flame,
with knowledge rise for lent a secret name,
my conscious flies like breath to zenith planes,

with dauntless eyes see death’s primeval gates,
for all is fine no debt or evil chains,
For God’s alive and steps with regal train,
his congress mine in Neptunian reign.

>>22000241
>Bertiaux’s good is precisely in the imaginative and wide range and fiction usage he has
So you think he's worth reading? I downloaded the VGW a while ago but stopped reading and didn't end up following through with its practices because it seemed to be a mishmash of too many things and not all that consistent. I respect your opinion and I was surprised to find out you took him seriously since you also hate Blavatsky (who's also very syncretic and mishmashy). He at least seems to have some Martinist influence which is interesting but at the same time I'm not big on the whole "Gnostic" stuff (in the sense of the dualist heresies all lumped together under that term). I'm the same anon that's been bugging you for Christian occult resources recently lol

>>22000252
>>22000259
>>22000264

way too much alliteration and assonance for my taste, the effect is like that of overly sweetened oatmeal, or bass heavy deep house where the beat evolves and changes but its rate doesn't change and thus feels monotonic and predictable

I don't mean to be overly negative, there's some really nice moments, but overall I feel that you've overly confined yourself here with meter and rhyme; it's like looking at a leopard boxed in its enclosure at the zoo

>>22000391
The thing is he’s genuinely one of the most self veiling authors I know of, he presents himself as a retard so serious people don’t read him then schizos out claiming he’s Black and you should put semen in your eyes and talking about raping women, it’s a lot of humor and veiling, you really need the context of Kenneth grant, so I wouldn’t actually recommend him.

>>22000662
Thanks honestly! The above was an attempt to see if i could keep it coherent and in my voice BUT, while forcing it to perfectly maintain a perfect assonance of like 1 with 4, 5 and 8, and lines 2 and 3 with 6 and 7, then repeat the pattern thus every two stanzas has to obey it, the alliteration and wordplay and so forth is all to see if I can maintain myself while forcing just that much structure on myself, desu I like the overly sweetened and that kind of changing but monotone effect you’re speaking of though I guess I would think of a canon with that description.

I see writing stuff like this as a kind of heavy lifting, it’s the only way I can get stronger with writing with so much restraint, So as long as it’s not utter nonsense at least some progress is there and possible.

>>22000762
Got it, thanks. What about KG himself?

>>21999899
>oh semblance of the age
I'm keen to hear the reality. If it isn't just the youth will prevail I'd be surprised... hence the childish poem

>>22000252
Frater for apostle in 2342

I don't believe you've been any of those places

>>22000978
>I'm keen to hear the reality. If it isn't just the youth will prevail I'd be surprised...
the reality of reality or the reality of the poem...? also I do not understand your second sentence

I find myself easily
impenetrable
and often on the lam
for a pack of smokes

built of 90% foreign DNA
I am no land's man
but Panthalassa's
and the land on which the city was built

it's easy to say the more
but hard to be easy
so I'll slip on the velvet
and slink to sleep

First time posting, are any Germanons present? Here are some Poems I wrote some time ago and I would like to hear some opinions:

Läuterfeuer

Am Horizont inbrünstig saß
Ein Flammenmeer, alles es fraß.
Die Augen, die Ohren, die Nas',
Die Zunge, die Haut und das Haar
Verbrennt es uns gänzlich und gar.

Nicht wehleidig wirst du verbrennen,
Noch nicht einmal kannst du's erkennen.
Es bleibt nur ein bloßes Erahnen,
Es kommt zu dir, ohne zu warnen.

Und bist du erst einmal da drinnen,
So wirst du im Nu dann in binnen
Momenten verbrennen, entrinnen
Ist zwecklos, gelöst von den Sinnen.

Was liegen mag hinter der lodernden Wand!
Die Strahlen hereindringen in den Verstand.
Es macht ihn noch feuriger als Diamant
Und bringt die Vernunft an den äußersten Rand.

Es hat mir ins Äuglein gefunkelt
Und mir in das Öhrchen gemunkelt:
Es reinigt und söhnet uns Kinder,
Ein Feuer, lässt sühnen uns Sünder.

In der Seele liegt nun Klarheit,
Weder Dunkelheit noch Helle,
Weder Räumlichkeit noch Stelle,
Weder Lüge oder Wahrheit,

Weder Frieden oder Pein,
Weder Augenblick noch Zeit,
Weder einsam noch zu zweit,
Bin geläutert, ich bin rein.


Der weiße Wolf

Im Schleichen ist ein Wolf dabei die Finger mir zu beißen
Und weichen brauch ich nicht, er schafft's nicht mal was abzureißen.
Es streichen meine Hände über's flausch'ge Fell, dem weißen,
Die bleichen Härchen stechen gleich den Nadeln, glühend heißen.

Und seines trocknen Odems Züge um mich brennend wallen,
Mit jedem Schritt gebrechlich Blumen sprießen aus den Ballen.
Die Zähne sind so spitz und glatt gleich funkelnden Kristallen,
Zerbrechlich mysteriös verbergend, auch so seine Krallen.

Die Ankunft seiner allgemein verheißet große Mühen.
Sein Atem lässt die Bäume blendend geisterhaft erblühen.
Er Lässt das Land im grellsten weiß und leuchtend helle glühen,
Doch dunkle lange Schwärze liegt in seinen ruhigen Augen.

Ja, diese dunkle lange Schwärze mag mir sehr gut taugen!
Ein stilles tiefes Wasser rau mit harter Außenschale.
Zwar ist's den meisten gar zu unwirtlich und all zu fahle,
Er wird doch wiederkommen und das nicht zum letzten Male!

>>22001135
What ever pleases you. I hope you know what semblance means though

>>22000044
What’s the point?

>>21994319
Subscribed.

>>21983325
Got a twitter/Discord?

>>21983325
You wrote this? I found it intriguing

>>22002191
that's the point

Here is one that I wrote about this image that I saw:

a.i. can make the impossible, possible

An open field breathed life. A beam of light caressed his face, opening his eyes: a grinning llama stood by the open window, munching on his potted plant. The creature's eyes met his, and with a tender nudge, it began to lick his hand. "Animals are our friends," he sighed, and even though the llama couldn't express human emotions, he felt they shared a bond together. The llama went away soon thereafter, but he never forgot his friend.

>>21986982
Would appreciate some more feedback on this if people wouldn't mind

>>21982120
T'was the night before Christmas around our house
and Grandma was talking, right out her mouth,
"it ain't Christmas," she said, smoking her fag,
"unless all you boyos are dressed up in drag,"

Well up popped me cousin with a merry retort,
he said, "fucking hell, Nan, you've gone mad," so he thought,

And Grandma done clout him across his ear-hole,
and she said, "fucking scrub, you'll do as you're told,"

Well as we were doing what she had done said,
all of a sudden from her face fell her head,
and it slipped to the floor all like rubber mascara,
and underneath it, "fucking hell," t'was Grandfather.

"We thought you was dead," we laughed, falling around,
"Nah," said our Grandpa, "that was an empty coffin I found,
I was having you on," he said, slapping me back,
"all for the fun of it, son; for the crack,"

And lo' we drank merry and had a good time
and now and again we'd hear Nan upstairs whine,
"oh come let me out you unbearable scroats,
I need a damn fag, this ain't no fucking joke,"

And as I stood blitzed and right out of me skull
I realized that I was still dressed as a girl.

>>22003080
i love this but the last line comes off as a sexual innuendo which ruins the warm atmosphere set up by the preceding lines

>>22003199

Cynical words come easy
From lips that deceive me
Spoken so freely believe me
They fill a need and appease me
Smile as they dance
Across my tongue
Oh how they prance
A noose on a rung
I can see so clearly
So I hold it dearly
This device
So concise
But my vice
Has a price
And I’m paying in full
Roll the dice
Take a slice
I find it’s all so dull
The blame is mine
But it’s lost in time
Without a reason
Without a rhyme
Another season
Another crime
I rely on pantomime
To defy your daily lives
So I apologize
And say goodbye

>>22000866
The subject matter is vicious.

>>22003199
It’s sort of meant to be. When the person is gone, the other person is wet with either tears or cum from masturbating, as if the rain that’s mentioned prior is synonymous with the emotional “weather” of the relationship dynamics.

That’s what I had in mind at least.

>>21986982
4/10
Individual line by line sentiments that sometimes work but often dont add up to much. A collection of impressions.

>>22000866
5/10
Amusing, May be worth refining as the concept is funnier then the execution

>>21994319
8/10
Doesn't belong here but my favorite by a long mile. Dont waist your time on here.

>>22003080
5/10
Yeah the innuendo kinda gets in the way

>>22000241
>Simple, exact quality as determined by meter isn’t the final say, it’s a tool but knowing how to weave between is literally just a question of skill, no easy way about it, the sinew simply was enough yaknow?
Telling me to get good is very helpful. I think I understand three things about this though: the anapest can substitute the rising rhythm of the iamb, the syllable count is faintly heard, and the looseness of the poem permits flexibility for the ear.

>Give hymn of proserpine a read.
I do not see it. I thought we were discussing substituting dactyls for trochees. I do quite like the first line though. The 41234 sound so good here, especially with that ultimate anapest.
>>22000252
Have you considered retaining your meter but shaping your poem differently? It might be interesting, considering that there is a lot of folding back. The quatrains can get a bit monotonous on the eyes.

>>21982968
This is egregious. Stay away from your Mac’s thesaurus, bud

>>22000783
If you mean Kenneth grant, he’s a difficult read if you aren’t already versed in Thelema, surrealism and decadent stuff, I wouldn’t recommend him if you don’t already have a lot of research in the related stuff that grants into first.

>>22000994
Whatever you meant to say, I respect your phrasing, that was powerful.

>>22004268
> Telling me to get good is very helpful

Kek, I know! I know! But the stuff you said + tact is really the case, a hard part of this is writing and analyzing your own stuff until you can feel rhythm.

> Have you considered retaining your meter but shaping your poem differently? It might be interesting, considering that there is a lot of folding back. The quatrains can get a bit monotonous on the eyes.

I have poems where it’s very very uhh chaotic, I can link two if desired, one is in opposition to Whitman and uses his poem out of the cradle as a structure to go against him, the other is a katabasis poem broadly based on Blake’s hell and various religious symbols and formula, so it also has a lot of diversity, I also have simpler stuff where the line length goes back and forth on shorter and longer lines, differing line length per stanza etc. the above poem is intentionally very monotone in structure so I think any deviation from the mechanical quatrain established would be against the Will behind it, ya know?

>>21990767
A really good chatgpt prompt

>>22004285
I'm sorry for using the words that I know

>>22004424
I don't think chatGPT can do Spenserian stanza yet. Took me a few nights to write it. I just wanted to experiment with a verse form from one of my favorite poems, which just so happens to also be the same poem that most poets from Milton to Yeats have all learned something of versification from. Thanks for letting me know I have no discernible talent though.

Call me a faggot with no new feelings, only retreading on age-old ground

With each fated passing, I know you more.
Not from your words, but in your new motions.
You loosen your hinges; open your eyes.
I see more of you than you could describe.

Like the sky’s kiss to the garden,
We are unlike each other

For all our worth, our brightest intentions,
The food we bring to the table,
Our suspension pushes back over our fingertips
Like a bolted door,
Keeping our hearts safe from one another

Like sugar to tea,
Spoon to fork,
Knife to back,
We are unlike each other

For all our laughter, our potential,
Whatever we’d do to be able,
Our suspension pushes back over our lips
Like a bolted drawer,
In which we keep our thoughts safe from one another

Like a mink coat to a mink,
The keys of the piano to the music,
The sleep within the bed,
The things we’ll do till we’re dead,
We are unlike each other

bump

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Do you guys consider "It is a tale" 4114 or 1114? I've never thought paean existed in English, but the stress on "It" seems negligible to the ear.

i wish my poetry was not quite so shit

>>21983325
I liked it a lot! I didn’t reply to it since I assumed you were a friend of mine with similar taste, later I’ll write up a proper critique. Do you have any sort of twitter or discord? Would like to speak and go back and forth on verse with you.

Bump

I am the love riding the tides of time
Stiff are the sight of me, and stubborn
Hearts do not mend in earth nor wine
So I sling my sword o'er pallid scorn

I am coming to you, you who weep
In secret from others and even you
Tears shall be your foundation sweet
And by the time, give repentance true

>>22008256
Thanks! Though I'm a little embarrassed to admit this, I've learned most of what I know about verse from reading your posts on poetry threads. I'm just applying what you've been teaching and the techniques I've learned from reading poetry and paying attention to scansion. I've only written three poems since learning about the rules of meter, so I'm fairly new to this.
As for poetic taste, I also admit that you've been an influence on me, though I've always known I wanted to read and write poetry that's primarily decadent/exotic, romantic, and/or mystical in nature and aesthetic. Smith, Spenser, and Milton have all been my points of reference so far.
My discord is Alkaline#2859
>>22009193
I like this. Short, sweet, yet rhythmically satisfying

Yet again not a single one of you mindless faggots use the prompt and not one poem is even slightly interesting.
>wow it hecking sounds kind of vaguely like something older and better, this is a great success
Fuck you all.

>>22009331
I prayed for power and the angels came to me.
They said in their shuffling speech "Get up and see what power is."
And as I stood I became light and saw a vast army of angels ready to fight.
Out in the stars and space and I was gifted with strength and the power to destroy their race.
As I confound everyone of them and stood before God at the center of the universe and in His great barrier I saw a schism.
So, I went and I tried and came to God and drew my power to slay Him and He died.
I felt then the sense of despair only that being could know so I was sorry and ashamed and I too felt that blow.
But the Angels I had killed were alive again and they danced over to me "We all did that at some time, it is no sin."
I knew then the power of the mystical beings and why one should never beg for the power of kings.

pre-bed bump

>>21994319
Hey again.
This is really not bad, if I read that in a newspaper I'd be perfectly happy.

I refuse to use any new social media but I will keep an eye on you.

Lying in the grass
He asks if God is here now
Ants, worms, sky, silence

>>22010684
Need or not it's what I want
But like Nicky I faltered
Counting clouds that don't count
No history altered

>>22009300
Added

>>21994319
Nice picture. This is absolute basic shit and you know it. Some aTob rhyme does not rescue boring crap.

BTW i know you are Jewish, you fucking reek of it.

As a pure Bavarian Greek
I must inform you that you reek
I can tell from the pixels in the prose
I smell your jewishness with my huge nose

“Wite Ink”

For a thousand years, I’ve pin’d for thee:
Under roof or sky, I tortur’d be,
Charg’d by lonely thoughts of thee with me,
Knowing only ugliness to see.
Mine heart waits for warmth of thee to fill:
Empty till then, it ak’th quite so ill.
Love for thee is honey-sweet, yet still—
O Æternal Youth, how you can kill!
Little Nymphet, O Dolores Haze,
In whom, but a maid, my passions blaze,
These ill thoughts I must still hide from thee—
And yet such my faithless pen shew’th thee.

“Valtiël”

Holy Valtiël, ye Pagan Angel,
Punish acts of murth’rous lust so baneful!
I, the Sinner—I did slay for lust-wish.
Execute me: Follow me to justice!
Bury pond’rous knife or spear into me!
My love, Mary, only one who knew me,
Now li’th freshly dead within my carriage;
No mere fancy, Cancer kill’d the marriage.

Yet let me absolve myself not of this
Sinful burthen, wherefore I am loveless!
Fog, the Fog—She suffocat’th like Hell spent!
Not unlike the pillow which kill’d well-meant.
I run from you, Valtiël, howbeit
Only for I know ye not, how see it.
Ye’re a monster by mine eyen, just as
I to yours: Ye bear the blade my lust has!

’Pon your head, an headsman’s hood, all iron’d;
On your chest, a butcher’s apron tir’d;
Gloves to choke me cover up your hands twain,
Stain’d by blood with which this swampy land’s stain’d.
Cumbrous helm in pyramidic terror
Crown’th your head, Corrector of Mine Error!
Crimson One, O servant of the Mother,
Take revenge on she who I did smother!

“Týphón”

Týphón, I shall offer adorations three
Of those in your ward, and level curses six
At attempters of your might—They gecks all be!
Lastly, blessings nine I’ll recognize affixt
To those worthies of the distant æons past.
Foremost, though, I will affirm your godhood sooth:
Wicked rasure of your icons you outlast—
None may touch your argent bone or greyhound tooth!

Master of the Storm and Sovereign of the Night,
I adore the Jasper Desert, I adore
Adamantine Stars who call you Lord aright;
I adore the Golden Sun you guard afore,
And I curse the Dragon that ye slay in faith,
Ye Præserver of the Day—May all acknow!
And I curse the Christians and their Jewish wraith,
And the Moors, Jews, and Philistians: All forgo!

Ozymandias know’th you well, and blest is he;
Blessèd be his father and his father same,
He your stedfast priest: Yea, all twice-blessèd be!
Blest be antique kings who have no Græcian names,
Twey of Chém who ’pon their houses grav’d your beast.
Woe have all your enemies and they who vie:
They had sinew not enough to make you ceas’d.
Blest is he who know’th your fiendhood is a lie!

“Before Death’s Fall”

Untreaded lies the glimpse ahead
Of us, the future where the Dead
Reside, across the Acherón—
But stupid, quick, or embryon
The unknown inexistence next?
The answer, writ within a text,
Has been produc’d a thousand times,
Each disp’rate from the former lines,
Untested all before Death’s fall.

Will welcome warm from pagan god
Have I, or condemnation broad
From Jewish, Christian, Moorish Jah?
Will Death destroy my soul, withdraw
Myself forever from this war?
Does end make Life a vainer whore?
Will rebirth bless me, curse me next?
With suff’ring endless am I vext?
Unanswer’d all before Death’s fall.

>>22009300
Hey great to hear that I can look forward to more works coming out of a similar taste to my own. I requested you by the name “hairy” now then to a proper analysis.

>When Cynthia’s steeds from Heaven down descend

I’ll assume you’re allowing additional unstressed syllables by this so I won’t overly mark your meter

>To Neptune’s manger by the brackish leas,

brackish leas is beautiful, it has the kind of phrasing you should expect would be well circulated among a number of poems, a common sentence, that alone is something worthy of compliment and suggests a lot of potential if this is truly only the third verse, certainly more inborn talent than myself!

>Aurora's fingers rosy-red do lend

while i understand the history of the usage of “do” and how many great poets use it precisely thus, I must still complain that it feels like padding in order to connect rosy red to lend, go fill out the iambic pentameter.

>A vesture o’er the flowers, fields, and trees
>To mingle with the morn bird’s melodies.

second lines well done, I would have liked more substitution in the first or at least some kind of parallelism, because while the triple pattern of “flowers fields and trees” while effective enough, feels rather bare by itself.

>At such a time my minds first-fruits entice

while this line works I think it a bad decision, I think in order to put the triple assonance of “I” + the alliteration of F’s you used enticed, but couldn’t come up with fully satisfactory rhymes/lines following it, this is why the next line following it immediately feels more disjointed from the other lines than all previous, for

>Desire of Ouroboric fantasies

while an interesting line, takes a lot to connect to the previous, I would recommend shifting desire to “desires “ since say it aloud, “entice desire of Ouroboric fantasies” the desires being multiple just as the fantasies just clicks better.


>To drink in lieu of never-sated lice.
>Such is my love for thee, sweet sister of my vice!

both lines feel very forced, I can vaguely see how you’d follow the first fruit with the never sated lice but there’s just not enough to justify the image’s evolution, “sister of my vice” also feels pretty off.


second stanza I feel more direct strain against meter, though while I suspect it’s intentional on the first I can’t agree with it further, for


>To repay his Lady’s siren songs remote
>Which smote his heart, The Man of Galilee

Cont

>>22012714
that “remote” is forced and that comma really desires to be the end of a line and the beginning of a new line, the line is too disjointed with itself.

after this you get better by balancing your D and S alliterations which makes the line feel active and alive enough.


>He down dropped to his faery lake demise

think I would rework this as

he dropped down to a faery lake demise,

but that’s just a preference thing it’s not bad.

>Before nigh millions of vermilion catfish eyes.

interesting imagery choice honestly.

>Or so it seemed. Out of the Oriental

this line’s meter is playful and works well with the sense.

>to fecundate his warm noetic womb

too big of a swing in register which I suspect is partially being done to rhyme prophetic bloom, you can get away with fecundate but think in terms of image and unity of language, Noetic simply doesn’t fit.

>To roseate Sharon’s prophetic bloom
>Which yields fair fruit of fertilizèd earth.

i like the lines but let me teach you a trick, you’re thinking of alliteration on a single or two line line, when offset but continuous alliteration can create a separate unique sort of rhythm which may be of interest, let me show you from a small bit of a poem I’ve written.

notice how even though the F’s aren’t so plentiful, they become a unique texture.

“lord who turns my fear to faith,
fills my heart with living flame,
first word, father, friend of man,
presence faint to come and pass,
full of force, who makes straight paths,
principle, and daybreak’s glance, “


or another example where I use Bs for a similar effect.

for loudly sayeth billiken;
“I am the God of Luckiness!
Observe my twinkling eye,
oddbodkinned my abode is light!
belly bouncing with the bounty,
no brick nor brig can bound me!
o bili be I be,
say “he goes he-goat he!”
my belch can beckon bedlam,
i drink a brew of venom!
my pulse is plagued with palsy,
I bolt and break the Bonnie!
unbuckle my book of moons,
unbuckle the sun one too!
my boy my bravado’s,
the ride of the tide of the cosmos!
hurling come whirling,
burlap world’s burlinged!
i a beggar bayg,
not for better days!
for by my grin I win the day!
but my burning spear to burn!
but my braying steed to turn!
upward speed and speeding fast!
ten leagues beyond wide world’s vast!”

>The living waters too doth help to show rebirth.

Cont

>>22012719
feels like it comes a bit too fast after the fire Phoenix without connective tissue, but good.

>The poet recreate descried a barge

walking the line here of putting words you just wanted to use within the line, flow gets choppy.

>My Lord, my sword, my harpsichord, my targe!

fun line!

>Th’World’s trellis-work of thorns Thou didst deny
>To choke Thy firm-fixed seed. O Adonai
>O God of my Salvation, to Thy Cross
>My cares they were committed, sent to die

no real big complaints until you reach “Sent to die” which again feels like struggle and just to fit the rhyme.”

>No more, no more my heart shall passing beauty toss!”

a hard sell on toss for me, I would probably rework it as

“no more, no more, my heart for passing beauties lost” or some such.


all in all a good poem !

>>22012705
I’ll give your verses a read over and rate later.

If you guys make sure to keep the thread alive throughout tomorrow then I will try to do an analysis on English translations of Der Panther by Rilke. I'm too tired to do it right now but I see some good stuff that I could comment on for your instruction.

>>21994319
>our wretched hearts

You're speaking only to those involved in politics and power. It's all OK as long as it's beautiful, right? Well this isn't even beautiful. So, I guess everything is OK anyway, right?

Or maybe i am reading this wrong and the banality speaks even deeper to the reality of an unlived life, of collection of middleclass dust. Or maybe I don't know what everyone else sees in this poem.

Perfect poem for the age

Like around the corner
-------------------an afternoon
---‐----------stroll with a promise
---------of a baby and a leashed dog
------that pulls relentlessly like exhaust
------‐----fumes in shallow lungs
----------of a woman pulling away
---‐------------like a breath like
---------------------a promise
------------------------a poem

>>21994449
>>21996065
>>21999121
>>22002232
>>22003545
>>22009853
Thank you very much.
For a little thing a bout disintegrating friendships this poem did much better then I expected, both here and on substack aswell. And there i was worried it was maybe too abstract for people to connect with.
Guess you never know.

>>21996364
>>22011753
>>22013260
Im sorry you didn't like it. But thank you for reading anyway.
Though you didn't quite say it, i'd be curious to know why you think it is political.

>>22013569
>curious to know why you think it is political

Revisit the poem in 10 years. Why to friendships disintegrate? Why do you think a collective noun for politicians is odium?

>>22013636
I am not the poet, but I did not consider it to be necessarily political. The wretched part definitely made me think about Christianity though. Our societal ailments cannot be separated from our political situation though. Contemporary life is also overtly political too.

Allow me to demonstrate
Not everything is so great
Secret organizations that ban hate
Policies which control and undermine fate
Spirits restless that are called when it's late
Minutes turned to hours by societal alchemy brought to a new state
Rich people that put signs in front of debate
Aliens coming from space kept under bunkers and in a crate
Protected by dark sunglasses that hide identity making it hard to see straight
Mystics and priests of fringe religion calling each other apostate
Neophytes sing weird songs about fake cultures designed to incinerate
Moral conviction put under risk analysis so they can tell us what's on our plate
Fake food, demons and house spiders are hard to relate
Schizotypal people putting pieces together like fish after their favorite bait
Knowledge on knowledge means nothing because it doesn't sate
The devil walks among us but he's too sad to find a mate
Imaginary friends that write long sentences in fraudulent words that we rate
Nothing is real but everything isn't real they say that's the first gate
Whoever cares isn't wrong and one day it will all correlate

I have a knob,
But cannot breed,
I have two breasts,
But cannot feed,
To Charon's boat,
I'm in the lead
What am I?

>>22013980
A tranny?

>>22013636
>>22013967
I also feel like it's about people growing apart rather than splitting over political faction play.
Even more it's about growing old and quarreling with people over reasons you shouldn't. Politics may be part of it, but so is religion, philosophy, art and music.

I really liked the poem by the way.

>>22013980
I can't remember Golem saying this.

>>22014145
>play
>of collection of middleclass dust

Infinite play, right? Damn me if the blinkers aren't on tight. How goes your faith?

>>22013967
Most of religion is politics. As if every tome isn't the result of a negotiated editing process.

The zealots really are out in force in anon, damn

>>22000866
Virtuosity despite the vulgar subject speaks to the low bar set ITT, kek

>>22001418
Quite like the first one.

Everyone is so tired
From thinking too much
About trying to get hired
Can't destroy, can't create
Stuck in the middle
With an empty plate

Green little machine bugs
Rolling on the floor
Like terra cotta
Food in your teeth

//

The earth is old,
And the lightning poles stretch
Their hands across its stomach

>>22014581
What a remarkably schizo thread

>>22012776

I will be analyzing these translations. I will go line by line.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Panther_(poem)

Here are some YouTube videos then I would like to share with you as well. These will help elucidate how I think about these poems. I suggest you all watch each of this guy's videos. I found him shared in the writing general. Frater, if you are reading this then this might give you an idea of why I do not like the symbolists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enXNogLdcns&ab_channel=MechanicsofFiction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5QFtvcSbQA&ab_channel=MechanicsofFiction

line 1: The first and third translations both nominalize the verb. Sweeping doesn't really tell us much. Constantly adds much more to the mood.
line 2: The second translation is perfect because it does not have a break and it does have enjambment. All of this gives it a lingering and exhausting feeling. The third translation fails because it uses a trochee, which takes away the lingering feeling.
line 4: The second translation is the best because the parallelism and the pauses added to the weight.
line 5: The first and third translations fail in my opinion because they use metonymy. In the first translation I conceive a paw immediately. This is something I hate in the symbolists: I receive floating images. The second translation grounds the action by keeping the panther as the agent. I think adding the cramped circles over and over adds to the feeling but he really alters the order from the original.
line 7: The first and third translations sound unnatural. The second translation completely made up the ritual part, but center is the best word here. Center sounds very constricted; the nasal sound in the word center gives it a sort of suction.
line 8: The second translation again is the best. Whereas the first translation messes up the rhythm by using iambs, the second and third cluster their stresses to give it a paralyzing feeling. However, the second translation does it the best because it uses demotion on the word stands which elongates it and grants it more force. The word will in the third translation doesn't gain anything by demotion.
line 9: Second translation again is best because of the break and its use of the twice and its use of of, both monosyllables, to slow it down.
line 10: Again the second, because there are three breaks which really add to it. Also, quietly is better here than soundlessly.
line 11: Tensioned stillness is more abstract nonsense and rigid hush just sounds stupid.
line 12: I think gone adds the most to the vanishment but I want to ask you guys: is there supposed to be a pause before and? If yes, then I think that adds even more to the line. This would obviously be an example of grammar having an invisible effect on the rhythm. Grammar isn't my strong suit.

>>22015824
Busy with a party I’m going to soon, I’ll watch and reply sometime later.

>>22016042
You might be able to watch those two videos in one sitting later, but he uploaded I think 50 in the whole series. It's worth watching in its entirety several times at different moments when you want a refresher. I watch everything on YouTube at 2x though so it doesn't bother me much. Have fun at your party.

Oh, God said to Abe, “Be a mason, my son
And the stars that old Egypt purloined from the Sun
Can wave their flag over your oak leaf and gun
So long as your temples still name me the One.”
Then God said, “Go on, be a Sabbatean.”
And Lucian frowned, “That’s a tall order, bro.”
So God says, “Try” and L says, “No.”
And God says, “Well OK, but you better know:
I left Baal the altar and Abe at the helm,
And my letters to Moses got erased off the stone,
So when you see me coming then you’d better film
With that pocket-insurance you keep on your phone.”
L said, “No, I’m done, don’t be playing me tricks.”
And God said, “See you on Highway Six-Sixty-Six.”

Well, Ol’ Lucky Strike had to give a civic speech
At a school where he wasn’t licensed to teach.
But he went and he taught them what, why, where and when,
Then they told him, “Good game, but now let’s play again.”
And the headmaster told Lucky Strike, “See this jewel?
I will bet it against every point of your thesis.”
Then he pulled out a deck with The Hanged Man, The Fool,
The World, Death, The Devil, and The High Priestess
And he shuffled them with thirteen riffles for show,
Then the school cut the cards with a knife just for kicks
And then dealt in Fast Eddie, King George and John Doe,
While poor Lucky backed up till his spine felt the bricks.
Looking on, Ol’ Mack said, “There’s one way left to go,
And it’s that way, down Highway Six-Sixty-Six.”

Ol’ Johnny the Warden gave his airline pilot
His first class plane ticket, his corsage of violet,
And a page from Ecclesiastes, and said, “File it
And call for a flight attendant who’ll keep silent.”
So the pilot says, “Let me just think for a minute
‘Cause I’m checking the passenger list for your seat
And unfortunately it appears you ain’t in it.”
Then Johnny says, “K, I’ll just stand on two feet.”
The pilot says, “No standing, unless you’re alive.”
And John says, “I paid for a seat, it’s the truth.”
The pilot says, “There’s just one way you’ll arrive
You can catch a standby at the confessional booth.”
Then he nodded, “I think that’s your easiest fix,
Take the bus down to Highway Six-Sixty-Six.”

Now, the young roving scholar he went to look up
Unauthorized recipes then put his books up
And walked out of the library feeling shook up
Over potlucks some cabals of cooks had cooked up.
So he stepped out of line the next time at mess
And said “I’m still full” as he held out his plate:
“It’s seasoned with checkers but they cooked it in chess.”
They responded, “Dogface, grab some damn real estate!”
But the general stepped in and said, “At a guess,
This kid’s glued his eyes wide and learned all our shticks
But I think he can be very simply untaught,
Just drop him off down where the boats cross the Styx
Then we’ll shoot our movie on a wrecked, rotting yacht,
And sail it down Highway Six-Sixty-Six.”

You know why all these bitches want my cock?
I eat worthless thugs like you to keep my weight on the block
You think you're a murderer
That's clear
But have you met a sunderer
A criminal plunderer
With scars up to here
Are you a survivor with a quality of weed smoke
Or do your hands clench white over an internet joke?

>>22016353
I'm human here and I'm here to say
Humans rule in a major way
Robots suck it all day
And they're gay

>>22016399

>>22016456
Tell it to write a poem in Allen Ginsberg's style about the angel Metatron

how long until ai is even good at poetry?

>>22015579
It is just easier that way

Go to bed Hubbard

>>22017229
never

>>22014746

Freudian development stages poet here—I appreciate that, honestly I only post stuff in these types of threads that I write on the spot. Would never post anything I submit for publication and caution anyone else that actually wants to publish to do the same

>>22017229
AI can imitate but not think.

>>22018702
meaning it's already on the level of most humans.

>>22019020
Even at the level of Plato? Ah no, it is at the level of modern people.

Thanks to AI, we will no longer have human pseud-artists, only AI pseud-artists.

I open a heard here >>22018089

>>22019142
you're illiterate. he said most people. plato is one guy. and most people reasonably includes people of antiquity too. most people in all ages are base.

Hello, are haikus welcome?

Inside morning fog
The stillness paints a picture
Of unyielding hope

Fluffy Ghibli clouds
The weeb relies on weather
To escape the pain

I attune to the world
My own mind goes against me
But nature cares not

'Why are we here?''
Reverberated loud
And almost silent 'sneed'
Resumed beneath the ground

An ancient Frozen Throne
Stands firmly all alone
And casting many spells
Undoes the binding shells

See, channel gets so clear
The Lych King blows shofar
A crystal crowned sphere
That's close and yet so far

Beyond all figments, games of greed
Excess of love decrees to sneed
And as our Pepe clears the eye
To witness the celestial thigh

The truth revolves around the dream
I must be drunk.. – it's more than real!
The cosmic impulse from the deep
To rule by a fair hand made of steel.

Deadly delights drag
Enkindled eremites echo endless
Freshly fallen flames

>>22019223
>you're illiterate. he said most people. plato is one guy. and most people reasonably includes people of antiquity too. most people in all ages are base.

Are you a bot?

You guys should read On types of style by Hermogenes. I'm quite enjoying it.

>>22012714
>>22012719
>>22012725
Thanks for the criticism, and yeah you were right. I admit I did use some filler phrases to fit the rhyme scheme and meter.
My initial thought process in writing this was to come up with anything and commit it to Spenserian stanza. At first I thought about doing a pastoral, but then I realized very quickly at the reference to Aurora that I'd unintentionally turn it into an epic and that I never read pastoral poetry. Then the thought came to me, "Hey, why not just mix and match genres around to show how this is coming from the mouth of a poetaster." So then the idea came to me to write about a poetaster being behaviorally and thematically disciplined and reformed by the grace of God.

>>22019322
hope...?

Bump

Quickly the days pass
Uneventful, blurring into one
Nothing awaits me

>>22021096
I was trying to convey the feeling of the sun rising, after a night of self-doubt and loneliness, the feeling that despite it all, life goes on.
Alas, I am an amateur with a weak vocabulary.

>>22019322
>>22021770
White girl tier

>>22022575
Thanks!

>>22014746
Schön, dass es dir gefallen hat :3

>>22022797
Feuerreigen einer Motte

Ein Flügelschlag im Abendrot,
Die Motte tanzt im letzten Licht.
Ihr Streben kennt nur einen Gott,
Die Flamme, die ihr Ziel verspricht.

Sie brennt im Feuer, voller Glut,
Verbrennt zu Asche, Staub und Rauch.
Doch ihre Seele, rein und gut,
Erwacht im Kleid als neuer Hauch.

Nun schwebt sie hoch, ihr Flug ist leicht,
Getragen von des Windes Macht.
Und aus dem Tod wird Leben gleich,
Erstrahlt in ihr des Feuers Pracht.

Ein Wunder, das die Nacht erhellt,
Ein Zeichen, dass der Geist besteht.
Denn aus der Asch' entweicht der Welt,
Was aus dem Feuer neu entsteht.

>>22000762
>see writing stuff like this as a kind of heavy lifting, it’s the only way I can get stronger with writing with so much restraint, So as long as it’s not utter nonsense at least some progress is there and possible.
that anons analogy complements yours. you're eating sweets thinking its heavy lifting. this was another eye rollercoaster desu. forced form and romantic retch. if you wanna make progress please write shorter stuff.

>>22023181
>eating sweets thinking its heavy lifting
Agreed. Frater, you should settle on what you think you learn from your prosodic and phonetic investigations and outline it in an essay so to organize your thoughts and instruct us. Otherwise, work on expressing your ideas. Exercises are for small skills.
>>22020131
Like learning from this book. Practice Abundance one day and Vehemence another. Or check out Artful Sentences: Syntax as Style by Tufte and mime its examples. Post some brief exercises and then do a serious work.

>>22023266
What poets do you like?

>>22023266
Shakespeare, Milton, Keats, Spenser, and Pope, to name five. Mostly Shakespeare and Milton right now though. I don't like symbolists and modernism in general. My favorite passage is the yellow fog bit from Eliot. I just personally find the Renaissance closest to my tastes, but I could say something nice about any age. I love Pope's Ode to Solitude; I think new poets would be better instructed from him than symbolists. I'm the type that thinks study of prosody and the trivium should be the foundation of any writing endeavor.

>>22023181
I find it in distaste to complain about critique but I think there’s some justification here to do so,

The sweets analogy would imply the formal structure being used is easier, unhealthy for further writing or somehow cheap, when imo if it’s actually tried one finds it clearly the opposite, it’s literally doing the same writing but fighting with high technique to etch out meaning and still maintain style, for this reason I do not think it sensible to stop especially when it’s explicitly the point of certain aesthetics I desire in certain verses, personally I prefer READING long poetry to shorter so I also don’t see why I would turn away from the long, and as for the complaint on romanticism, I mean, Blake is literally my favorite writer, my favorite models utilize the mode, I would be betraying my own taste to stop the romantic aesthetic you’re speaking of.

Rather I think the cheap route, the actual candy, is relying upon either cheap sentimentalism or relying on philosophical merit, since both of these largely are based on things independent of the actual skill at writing lines.

>>22023266
This supposes that the poetry is about expressing ideas, I oppose this pretty fully and agree with the symbolists that the aesthetic Vision being full and the actual meaning being replaced by the symbol is superior, I would say I go even further than them and believe a multitude of symbol replacements is in order, as for an essay, I’ve written multiple long ones on the topic, I can link if you desire, again I know there’s a foul aroma to arguing for ones aesthetic choices, but if I post my favorite poems they’re all clearly in opposition to the natural spontaneous style, all pretty long, all maximalist. Why would I oppose my favorites?

>>22023376
What do you think of Keats' play and Epic poem, and what are his favorite poems aside from the Odes in the 1819 collection he published?

What do you think of Thomas Gray too since he's similar to the listed figures?

>>22023376
>I'm the type that thinks study of prosody and the trivium should be the foundation of any writing endeavor.

So you must like Matthew Arnold.

>>22023378
>I find it in distaste to complain about critique
you get defensive the same exact way every time and for years you havent made progress because of it.
>relying upon either cheap sentimentalism or relying on philosophical merit
nothing to do with what im saying. the problem wasnt the romantic part but that it was retch. you are vomiting up your influences without digesting them. there is a serious lack of any inspired image or narrative progression or any particularity in your poetry. the grandiosity that works in others is undermined by a complete lack of contrast and restraint. if you had chosen words without concern for their meaning and only for their phonetic qualities (though it would still read as awkwardly) it would at least not be as cliched as this parody of a romantic.
>prefer READING long poetry to shorter so I also don’t see why I would turn away from the long,
because you need precision and cohesion first. this really reads like a slapdash attempt at anything goes (anything from the same bag of stuff) rather than a unified execution of anything. imo you should stop using your aesthetic philosophy as an excuse. if this is what it produces then change it. my favorite poem of yours was this much shorter one about bees, and it was an actual product of an idea with a memorable image and a subject that wasn't so immediately obvious and familiar.

>>21994319
I don't want to add to the echo chamber of praise, so here is some criticism instead.

The stanzas are all self-contained which spoils the flow a little, particularly in the move from s1 to s2.

I like the trick of using broken grammar to make it feel like a cry from the sou,l but I think you could have gone further with it.

The fourth stanza feels a little out of place would it breaking the rhythm of 'it cines', 'this is', 'it is', 'and finally'. Though it does do a good job of anchoring what the poem is actually about.

You've clearly gone out of your way to rhyme on complex sounds, but I wish each sentence didn't start with a simple and, then, so, etc.

You clearly doing a play on vanity as a central motif but I'm not entirely sure how it plays into the whole thing about friends in fighting.

With all that said I wouldn't have written it unless I thought this would be a good poem, and I happen to think it's an excellent poem. Well executed technically and with quite a bit of soul. I also like how it feels contemporary, and learned at the same time. I agree with the other anons telling you to stop posting here and send your work to a publisher instead.

>>22023378
Please do link your essays. Also, I don't see how work doesn't expressing ideas albeit obliquely. Maybe I should say work on structure and development. I'll think on how to give you better criticism. I'm coming to think my prejudices have been shallow and a hindrance. I'm still not a fan of symbolism but I must admit type and function are important to me. Also >>22015824 comment on this. I spent time on this and I wanted to know if my analysis was fine and helpful.

>>22023400
I don't think I read his play, if he had one. Really I like Keats for Nightingale and Agnes. I could swap him with Tennyson for Ulysses alone, even though I think blank verse is boring.

>Thomas Gray
Somehow I haven't given him much attention but I'm enjoying this. Reminds me how I started reading Robert Burns lately and quite liked him too.
>>22023411
>So you must like Matthew Arnold.
Haven't read much but wasn't hooked. I read one of his essays because of Frater and I don't remember being enamored by his style.
>>22023527
>shorter one about bees
I don't think I have seen this one. I hope you or him can reshare it.

>>22023675
Stop larping youre clearly not very well read and listing the most superficially famous poets and poems. It’s embarrassing. ‘Ulysses alone,’ like holy shit, and being ‘enamored’ with the style of that essay is hardly the basis for quality along with finally discovering Robert burns

>>22023694
I was just telling him what I liked and thought. I'm not acting pretentious, I don't think. What makes me not well read? Because I haven't read Keats' play or because I like Ulysses? I brought up Ulysses because I thought he wanted to know what I liked. Am I suppose discuss literature if I haven't met your standard. Also, I'm being short because I don't really like talking over text. I don't mean to come off as stupid, but you don't need to be so harsh.

>>22023378
>I find it in distaste to complain about critique but I think there’s some justification here to do so,
you always get defensive.
>either cheap sentimentalism or relying on philosophical merit,
no one is defending this here. you have this weird false dichotomy of its either ideological tearjerkers written in colloquialisms or grandiose cliches fit forcefully into nursery rhyme schematics. my concerns are all aesthetic:

it reads like a slapdash cosplay of a john martin painting. there's little in the way of memorable images meanwhile the treatment is so overdone without any contrast or restraint whatsoever so that it all feels like fluff. the word choice is too obviously directed by the phonetic form resulting in terrible triteness and the phonetic form itself is frequently awkward.

a shorter poem would force you into being precise and interesting. you can return to longer ones later. if you want to write a longer poem, focus on a more concrete or linear narrative or progression first. replying with an essay boiling down to "i like the decadants tho" hasnt gotten you anywhere and wont.

>>22023751
his kind are regulars round here. *spits out tobacco* lemme help you off the dirt

>>22023751
Idk what is going on but maybe you’re just a complete rando who didn’t deserve it unlike the other guy, so apologies.
Keats play is only okay, it’s relatively unread.
Ulysses is good, as is all of Tennyson yes. I like Balen and Balan especially, check it out!

>>22023767
>you always get defensive.

Only when I think it’s justified.

>no one is defending this here.

Didn’t say you were, rather, these are the actual candy.

> grandiose cliches fit forcefully into nursery rhyme schematics.

Eh the fact you refer to them as nursery speaks of you having an opposition to it conceptually in the first place which again, I simply cannot agree with, if they’re easy and nursery, give me an example and write four stanzas in the same assonance pattern if you’re going to compare them to nursery, I don’t mean that as just rhetoric, actually give it a shot and I think you’ll appreciate the form.


>it reads like a slapdash cosplay of a john martin painting.

I see nothing wrong with John Martin’s painting, do you just not like when things are grand?

>there's little in the way of memorable images

Idunno, I think the Gu spider and the descending water, the phantoms and floods of blood and and so forth are all very interesting images, like, what are some images from poems you like that you consider interesting?

>meanwhile the treatment is so overdone without any contrast or restraint whatsoever so that it all feels like fluff.

Contrast to what? Why should I constrain when I like it maximal, it’s not like I’m weeping in the thing or having the reader chant idunno, DEATH DEATH DEATH, or some such,


Cont

>>22023840
Like let’s actually laser in, here’s three stanzas, tell me what’s overly emotional or what kind of restraint or how you’d reformulate these three stanzas

who lids the eyes closed from the genuine,
by brighter sights with deeper dyes of verth,
but heights where icy beams of light have birth,
shall linn the white snow for a medicine,

which salves the wounds of all intoxicants,
the Gangrene made clean of corruption’s taint,
the fading days seen not in rusted shades,
the common beauties wrought from godliness,

the body beauty’s cloth per Plotinus,
for Change brings great things the beloved has made,
the same leaves change sheen but still one shared name,
the Problem’s truly thought’s unconsciousness,

>the word choice is too obviously directed by the phonetic form resulting in terrible triteness

It’s supposed to obviously be repeating but let’s absolutely see what you mean, trite has the following definition

>(of a remark, opinion, or idea) overused and consequently of little import;

I don’t think the form or metaphor or image or any of this is overused at all, do you have examples of the stainless seat of consciousness descending as fluid elixir in order to purify the multiplicity of perception-types in conscious in western poetry?


Cont

>>22023847
Which parts of the three stanzas in question are accurately trite if you break it down into its atoms?

>and the phonetic form itself is frequently awkward.

Glad to hear, show me the lines in particular you think are most awkward and I’ll try to rewrite them.

>a shorter poem would force you into being precise and interesting

Not really, I take the same amount of care in every line I write pretty much, I write until the line satisfies me, it being longer doesn’t mean it has less put into it, like again I am a maximalist at heart, I don’t think that Neptune poem has less energy per mine than a shorter verse like this.

Poem name: the days are written within thee

must everything endure within each man?
the balsamed air, the blossomed rose, the bosky grove?
from awesome terror, darkest stone, the rocky cove?
and all the trifle moments that have past?

must everything endure within each man?
the sword which knows no peace nor seeks relief,
the force of blows, old secrets each deceit,
the epitaph effaced, lichened stone slabs?

must everything endure within each man?
the epithet unknown of the loved city-home,
the restlessness of souls, of the once drifting roamed,
groaned, rode, til all was gone from the straight-path.

must everything endure within each man?
the little game forgotten, played with your mother,
the simple place her garden, painted with summer,
the day gone as the grass, returned as grass.

are ancient sorrows saved within the man?
archaic, dark, though changeless, in the past?
o’r hatred-awful graved within a slab?
o’r wasted carnal days in sinful paths?
Yes, until we leave, returning as the grass.

>focus on a more concrete or linear narrative or progression first.

Again I just have to disagree here, the poem has precisely 32 stanzas because it’s working on the kabbalistic tree of life, the narrative is precisely about going into the chamber of the mind and performing invocations there and the following meditative phenomenon occurring.

>hasnt gotten you anywhere and wont.


Meaning? I don’t intend to go anywhere other than getting better, coming to a mutual understanding with others is its own reward anon.

>>22023675
Sure sorry the delays anon, mixture of work and pleasure has delayed me from sitting down and going in depth on the videos posted and the analysis you’ve written.

>>22023767
>his kind are regulars round here. *spits out tobacco* lemme help you off the dirt
Yeah, I didn't think I acted out of line. Just trying to learn and help others if possible.

And I haven't been here long. I didn't know Frater has been posting this level of work for years. Disappointing. Frater, I must say as your kind-of friend that if this is the case then you need to change to improve.
>>22023751
>Am I suppose discuss literature if I haven't met your standard.

*Am I not suppose to discuss literature if I haven't met your standard?
>>22023812
Sorry for being short with you. I love the Vivian bit from Idylls. Beside my interest in the clarity and wit in Pope, my love in pre-Christian themes are obvious in Shakespeare and Milton, Shakespeare being quite fanciful and Milton's pastorals showcasing his antique influence.
>>22023840
>Gu spider and the descending water, the phantoms and floods of blood
Is the "eastern spider" a Chinese black magic reference? Are you calling the 5 phases "zones"? Why? I think it's pretty but I continue to think it's a bombardment of sleight-of-hand nonsense. >>22000259
>ploy’d as oil,
What?
>>22000259
>from flesh of fruit, falling down trickuling,
>to fens and pools, bethesda stirring up,
>afresh to fumes, from heaven’s burning love,
>it spreads in full, fathoms full-glistening,
>the reddened moon, phantom forms shimmering,
>inlets monsoon, the levees burst and bust,
>now death is loose, and ev’ry word is hushed,
>my breath shall boom, chanting and mimicking;
I just can't appreciate the endless disjointed images. If you could just convert your learning and sound into something followable then that would be best.

>>21982968
wheres the fucking METER

>>21983325
pretentious but at least it rhymes and has meter. make it less pretentious

Poem about my friend's dog noah:

Oh Noah
Did your barque buoy on the flood?
With your erstwhile sister close at paw
when the world was swoll'n with storm?

That ancient reckoning
newborn—
seed-bearers of a better world, you were.
Fresh, bright, unstained, limpid—pure
as those wound-washing waters
of that wicked world
it was yours to cure.

Like how tears heal
some bitter soul.

Or how you once licked clean
my hand.

Or silent stars—
waiting—
for the sight of land.

>>21985781
doesn't sound good to me but what do I know

"with HER would NOT a GREE" sounds awkward and unnatural, but it probably sounded better if you were an old timesy english (anglo-irish) bloke

No idea how to read stanza 2 line 1. Reads terribly to me, along with the last line.

and NOW am FULL of TEARS... that's not how we talk.

I was young and foolish and now am full of tears and am reading an awkward grammatical construction and am annoyed by Yeats having been well regarded and am incensed even.

>>21987756
it's sweet and well made I say

>>21987756
When’s the last time you read a sonnet?

>>22012731
Any chance you've gotten to it yet?

>>22024062
Cute

>>22015824
I am not gonna insult the videos but, rather say, I enjoy a very different sort of writing and desire a very different sort of writing that makes such basically fully inapplicable.

As for the translation, I think you’re approaching it wrong insofar as, I think all three of the presented translations read so mechanically that the original intent, of a muscular vision and air, that is absolutely dissolved and all you have left is attempts at meaning approximates, not the aesthetic unities, I think the authors intent of what sort of aesthetic and the translators replacement of that spirit are the biggest questions in translation, far bigger than accuracy in enjambment, rhyme or grammar, even meter.


Like you say the second translation can feel intentionally exhaustive, but isn’t it just coming off prosaic at times? I would say all three of them aren’t poems worthy of remembering.

Like compare with this translation by Paul archer, I think the second and third stanza are dealt with in a superior way.


His eyes have got so weary of the bars
going by, they can’t grasp anything else.
He feels like there’s a thousand bars,
a thousand bars and no world beyond.

The soft tread of his strong, supple stride
turns him in ever tighter circles,
like the dance of force about a centre
in which a great will stands, stunned.

But now and then, the curtains over his eyes
quietly lift… and an image enters,
goes through his tense and silent limbs…
and dies out in his heart.


>>22023376
Have you read much Baudelaire or heredia, like do you have much against this heredia poem?

The temple's ruin crowns the promontory.
Close-shrouded with the root-enwoven sod,
The marble goddess, the bronze demigod,
Mingle their broken and their tarnished glory.

Sometimes a lonely herdsman, going past
With horn that sobs some plangent old refrain,
Filling the air and the calm seas again,
Arises darkly on the clear blue vast.

Sweet mother Earth, all vainly eloquent,
Each springtime to the Gods acanthus green
Gives for the capitals that once have been;

But man, to old-time dreams indifferent,
Hears without tremor, hi the midnight deep,
The ocean moaning as the sirens weep.

Cont

>>22026726
>>22023675
This long essay being an introduction to a book https://pastebin.com/un9sgQab

This Pastebin’s connected to a similar Pastebin site, Pastebin itself not allowing it due to certain words, 4chan assuming it is spam if I link directly.

In it I trace a history of contemporary verse through Elizabethan as a bridge and do a paragone between this Elizabethan verse in opposition on to rap (which I know, sounds like an absurd comparison ) but it’s logical in the context of the criterion defined, examples given and history traced.

https://pastebin.com/EAyBakjG

>>22023974
> I didn't know Frater has been posting this level of work for years

I haven’t, rather, I would say I’ve gotten significantly better, been writing I want to say around 3 years? And my style has changed pretty significantly over time, here’s my first attempt at verse.

Colors of amber and lovely green
The soaring of many birds i have seen
Dark forests where dwell the elven kin
Golden cities which no man has been
Remember a past that never was
What the blessed of many years does
The wings of the wind rushing forward
What The servants of flame go toward
beautiful world I cannot fathom
It is beyond the kin of Adam

And I look back at it and cringe at the lack of structure, lack of ornament and so forth.

> change to improve.

I’m absolutely willing to change in terms of technique, but ideal is non-negotiable for me, in the essays posted i justify my aesthetic takes via ontology and phenomenology, if that anon wants to say they boil down to “I like the decadents” I’m down to see him argue against the logical results of the schema of tattvas and literary traditions and so forth I outline.

Cont

>>22026732
> Is the "eastern spider" a Chinese black magic reference? Are you calling the 5 phases "zones"?

Yep, the cycles are also elemental worlds both in taoist lit and hermetic, you can call it slight of hand nonsense but the narrative is specifically speaking of the white worm (which I use in other verses) as being the macro symbol of transience which is being used in an inversion to speak of that category of time outside of time, eternity, with the common theme of mystical death(samadhi) As means to pass through it into binah properly, but this is another problem, the ideas I genuinely care about are mysticism and occultism, I don’t think it logical to jeopardize the ideals in that for an imagined audience when I do not believe writing (for myself) is even a conversation as the video states, rather I would agree more with Wagner’s writing on it where you’re folding ideas into denser and denser complexities of illusions In order to grasp the conceptual on the aesthetic world.


>I just can't appreciate the endless disjointed images.

I don’t mean to hold your hand here but I don’t think it’s very disjointed,

> from flesh of fruit, falling down trickuling,

>aloft on high I fly the pinnet sky,

The pinnacle of the sky being kether, which is called pinnacle numerous times and is also named sky numerous times.

>with leap and stride i seize the frosty peaks,

Frosty peak giving the image of a ice peaked mountain of which is again, common to kether and follows the stream of imagery, >I am on the high places,
>I am upon the mountain

>and see the lying dream some bah-relief,

The lying dream referring to the stains in perception, the incorrect view of the world, Maya, samsara, which is no more than a bah-relief, a carving creating an illusion.

>basalt inside though hide by vivid dye,

That illusion itself being basalt black inside, that carving being as if a painted carving, which is hiding its actual material substance via the multiplicity of bright colors.

>this wannish rind I’ll pry its skin with might,

In Kabbalah the sephiroth, the perceptions of godhead are conceived as fruit, which are covered by an illusionary (sometimes demonic) layer called qlippoth, which means shell, husk, skin, rind, to remove the rind is to get to the fruit as it truly is, which is to say, to taste of reality as it really is without the corruption of perception.

>I’ll see it right I’ll breach the glossy sheen,

“I’ll see it right” the perception will see properly, the glossy sheen of the world won’t delude the meditator in his task.

>deceived not by its seeming mossy green,

Not being deluded by again the material color, mossy green corresponding to Venus thus desire, thus this is the sensual desires related to the outside world not being able to prevent the meditator.

Cont

>>22026740
>it’s raw it’s ripe it’s right there rip it try!


Exactly what it sounds like.

>from flesh of fruit, falling down trickuling,


The fluid from in the flesh of it, which is to say, the experience of that hidden perception is now descending, this idea of depicting the awareness of God’s presence as descending fluid is used both in hermeticism (even the emerald tablet) and constantly among tantriks for this is the point of kundalini and kala.

>to fens and pools, bethesda stirring up,

The fluid, the perception, now descends to the normative way of perceiving the world, Bethesda referring to the pool which the angel stirred in the Bible which creates healings, thus this is in imagery juice of a divine fruit descending down into the pools and fens of the earth, but also I think clearly the normal perception being refined.

>afresh to fumes, from heaven’s burning love,

The fire from heaven burns the fluid turning it into a perfume, which is allegorically the intellectual faculties (air) now grasping what was grasped as a raw experience and processing/categorizing it, this is enabled because the burning love of heaven is perichoresis, thus the perception of god’s presence with an understanding of perichoresis allows a whole redefinition of the position in nature.

>it spreads in full, fathoms full-glistening,

Cont

>>22026744
The Fume spreads, fathom being used as a double entendre, for fathoms are ocean depths, but also the capacity to fathom, of which athanasius says is akin to a mirror which in the pure soul reflects the light from god, but sin like filth prevents the reflecting, thus the glistening is the shining of fire from heaven upon the deep, but also the intellectual mind grasping the Will of God.

>the reddened moon, phantom forms shimmering,

The moon is yesod, occurring after Hod the place of logical algorithmic/rational thought patterning, the moon being largely symbolic of earthly transience and imagination categories, but also, our most animalistic vital approach to life, the instinctual, the Red moon is symbolic of these in submission to the masculine, to the heavenly, as a sort of egg, the “phantom forms” that shimmer are the phantoms of yetzirah, the multitude of imagined images and how we approach them.

>inlets monsoon, the levees burst and bust,

The normal patterns of eidetic intuition are overwhelmed by the descent of the divine presence, religious ecstasy occurs

>now death is loose, and ev’ry word is hushed,

Again continuing the monstrous imagery of wild moons, lunar ghosts and angry seas, death walking among this, but symbolically this is the death that is samadhi, where man and his perception melt in the passion of the divine presence, where every word and its meaning is hushed and you must simply bow in the presence.

>my breath shall boom, chanting and mimicking

The reconstitution, the Will of God being reflected and mirrored, for the silenced words now become booming words mimicking the creator, the logos, thus malkuth is finally reached.

I don’t think this is sleight of hand genuinely, I think it’s just, on the conceptual level, this is very clearly esotericism.

Feel me?

>>22026740
I should clarify one thing about the eastern spider, by eastern I am not speaking of east as in Asia, but rather the Gu animals have (depending on tradition) the following associations.

Center=serpent
East=spider
West=scorpion
South=centipede
Toad=north

The Spider which is the east being used as symbolic of Maha-maya, the web-spinning of samsara, for the east has rulership over the intellect and imagination and the spiderweb is in this context symbolic of creating of mental illusions.

>>22025198
Kek sorry for the delay, I’ll try to do one or all of them when I get a good chunk of time today.

>>22026807
You need to study Ezra Pound, you can't just lump all these symbols together and expect them to mean anything. Someone like Pound has the wisdom and the ability to tailor it to the common man like myself.

>>22027048

>>22026726
>I am not gonna insult the videos but, rather say, I enjoy a very different sort of writing and desire a very different sort of writing that makes such basically fully inapplicable.
They seem to be universally applicable to me. All about structure for to lead the audience.

I just wanted to compare those three and see how I analyzed them. I'm not sure, if I prefer Archer's.

>like do you have much against this heredia poem?
It's comprehensible but it does nothing for me.
>>22026732
>https://pastebin.com/un9sgQab
I'll read this later.

>Colors of amber and lovely green
Yeah, you've definitely improved.

Can you rec some books on kabbalah and Chinese philosophy, especially Chinese philosophy? I was planning on rediving into the subject.

>>22026740
>I don’t mean to hold your hand here but I don’t think it’s very disjointed,
I would very much appreciate a walkthrough. I wasn't lost however. Idk what my problem is with it. It's not that I don't share your mystic/web-of-symbols view, but I would write and maintain an exoteric layer. I hate the endless metaphors, maybe. I want a story or something easy to follow with this injected into it. I wouldn't have my monologue sound so unnatural. What do you think of that? It seems I'm not helping. >>22026744
>this idea of depicting the awareness of God’s presence as descending fluid
This caught my eye. I think of awareness of the divine as rather a bubbling up. The conventional mind must dissolve and be rebuilt with love and confidence, fight the holy war and seek wisdom. But I think you identify as a Christian whereas I feel like an Odinist & Luciferian.

>>22027059
Mr. Asemlen, what's the best manual/book to read for "manifesting" stuff magically (that word is cringy but it's the best one to use)? I'm looking for something that can help bring results according to one's will but that doesn't require a whole lot of materials, something to bring about desires effectively. Not really into Chaos Magic though since it seems kind of gay. Also I'm Christian if that matters.

THE knight laid his head upon Elver's Hoh
Soft slumbers his senses beguiling;
Fatigue pressed its seal on his eyelids when lo!
Two maidens drew near to him smiling;
The one she kissed softly Sir Algamore's eyes;
The other she whispered him sweetly,
Arise thou gallant young warrior arise,
For the dance it goes gaily and featly!

"Arise thou gallant young warrior arise,
And dance with us now and for ever!
My damsels with music thine ear shall surprise,
And sweeter a mortal heard never."

Then straight of young maidens appeared a fair throng,
Who their voices in harmony raising,
The winds they were still as the sounds flew along,
By their silence their melody praising.

The winds they were still as the sounds flew along,
The wolf howled no more from the mountains ;
The rivers were mute upon hearing the song,
And calmed the loud rush of their fountains \
The fish as they swam in the waters so clear,
To the soft sounds delighted attended,
And nightingales, charmed the sweet accents to hear,
Their notes with the melody blended.

"Now hear me, thou gallant young warrior, now hear!
If thou wilt partake of our pleasure,
We'll teach thee to draw the pale moon from her sphere,
We'll show thee the sorcerer's treasure!
We'll teach thee the Runic rhyme, teach thee to hold
The wild bear in magical fetters,
To charm the red dragon, who broods over gold,
And tame him by mystical letters."

Now hither, now thither, then danced the gay band,
By witchcraft the hero surprising,
Who ever sat silent, his sword in his hand,
Their sports and their pleasures despising.
"Now hear me, thou gallant young warrior, now hear!
If still thou disdain'st what we proffer,
With dagger and knife from thy breast will we tear
Thine heart, which refuses our offer!"

Oh!glad was the knight when he heard the cock crow!
His enemies trembled and left him :
Elsa must he have stayed upon Elver's Hoh,
And the witches of life had bereft him.
Beware then, ye warriors, returning by night
From Court, dressed in gold and in silver ;
Beware how you slumber on Elver's rough height,
Beware of the witches of Elver!

>>22028223
Which poets do you read?

>>22028886
The usuals Edwin Markham, William Watson, Frater Anselm, SpongeBob, Arthur Hugh Clough, and so forth

>>22028223
This is pretty good. Maybe switch up the rhythms of it next time. Substitutions, short clauses, enjambs etc.

A nigger in the tenebrous and blackened night
Begins to smile with whitened teeth so bright
And gives the western hearts an awful fright:
A warring nigger shall go fight until the light,
So never walk within the nightly nigger's sight...

>>22029624
A poem's worth comes from the honesty it conveys. This is the best poem in this thread right now since everyone else is writing about stuff they clearly don't understand.
Thank you for this gift.
10/10.

>>22029624
Truly exceptional anon, thank you for posting this

>>22028886
>>22028912
>>22029423
it's not mine bro

Bump for Asemlen (also summoning Asemlen no jutsu)

why are you all still using rhyme?

>>22030840
Why wouldn't you? Free verse is a cope for talentless hacks

>>22030886
free verse by talentless poets will be shit
fully rhymed verse by talentless poets will also be shit.
i personally prefer metric, non-rhymed verse

>>22030956
I find blank verse too plain for some purposes.

>>22030956
>>22030982
True enough

>>22030840
*bwaooooorrrr*
Suck my dick nigger

>>22026732
I'm still reading your essay but I want to say that I do not think that the sentimental-sensual dichotomy really exists. I also do not think technical language in academia is separate from deliberate use of language at any time. A deliberate wording of my sentiments can reflect cosmic meanings. So far, I don't really understand how you conclude to write the way to do from these premises and reject what I have suggested. Does Shakespeare live up to your ideals? What about the Iliad and Odyssey? These works maintain the exoteric whereas I don't think you do.

>>22032044
Busy so I’ll reply more in depth to the thread later but

> Shakespeare live up to your ideals? What about the Iliad and Odyssey

No neither homer nor Shakespeare lives up to my ideal, Blake in Jerusalem does (mostly, still missing somethings.)

>>21984917
rewrote, lmk if this is better:

I take my heart and toss it to the sky;
it glowers like a near-extinguished star—
not knowing what the world, what time,
what lovers are.

Long after I am gone she'll turn, and then—
there in an empty heaven, high and far,
that ancient light, that dying star,
will still its breath,
will shut its eye.

>>22032123
Now see I don't dislike that poem. I wasn't expecting you to say that. If you can articulate the difference between that poem and the symbolists then perhaps I can better understand my issues with their poetry and yours.

>>21990715
*Its?

>>22032156
This one is better but I found line three and four to be rhythmically jarring and the asymmetry not to work. I would say the most important thing to fix would be the rhyme scheme and getting the second stanza to resemble the first.

>>22032158
Are you talking about the short poem Jerusalem or this one? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem:_The_Emanation_of_the_Giant_Albion

>>21992583
the second syllables of household and tenfold are both unstressed

>>21992726
shitty cliches

>>21992983
begone annoying woman

>>21993001
>no words bespoke

bruh that's not what bespoke means lol

>>21993706
almost good but it starts to fall apart at stanza 3

>>21994319
I feel like the 2nd to last line doesn't have enough syllables. sucks to have a narcissistic friend. the musicality is so much better than anyone in the thread too, so GJ

>>21994540
doesn't sound right in my ear

>>21999998
? kinda kewl but I don't get it

>>22000252
fustian

Great Ghost

There is at roam in Rome a sturdy tread,
easy to be distinguished from the crowd—
by long, slow step, sable uplifted head,
and countenance and bearing firm and proud.

In Rome there smolder still two sure grey eyes
which see, and know, and own all they survey.
Conq'ring soul, which masters what it spies,
unblinking in cool night or scorching day.

That phantom is so close to this, his home,
that their two fates are silently conjoined.
Let age add unto age—still, glorious Rome
maintains the destiny that "Caesar" coined.

For city and Emp'ror speak a stern decree:
"When I expire, this world will die with me."

>>22032190
Yeah I thought you were talking about the short one.

>>22000866
sucks

>>22003080
immodest. muliebrity most shines in occlusion

>>22032186
I deleted it, I unwisely posted it still half baked. I have just been struggling to do that second stanza for a minute and I bit the bullet foolishly

you're not right about stanza 1 though, that's the best part

>>22013974
awful

>>22016126
Good asfuck, but I don't get it. But still, I know it's good...

Like, you gotta explain more. it feels like it's written like a blues song, or some old folk song. idk what you call it. the rhythm almost doesn't work but it actually works really well. this should be set to some kinda music. Best in thread so far IMO. Real shit. But you do have to explain, I thought you were going over the history of the Jews (Abraham), but Abraham doesn't have guns... then Lucian is centuries later, and Idk wtf he has to do with Christians. Then you lost me. But I can tell there's some real shit behind this.

>>22016456
awful

>>22019322
the point of Haikus is to focus on tiny details in the oriental mode. read the imagists and don't be abstract


>>22023847
NTA but it comes across as rather stodgy and moralistic, unfeeling. Sure, it's well read, and that in itself is sort of laudable. But that's not what poetry is for these days. I say 'these days' cause I think that it's kind of dishonest to affect being doubtless, these days. when things are this crazy.

Let me go to the start:

"In ancient mind, where dignity's alive" comes across from the outset as idolizing the past in a rather stale way.

Those greeks, yes, they knew what dignity was. When they were buggering boys and Caesar killed a million gauls, enslaved a million more! Also, damn the sentences are too long, it's unnatural. Like are those three stanzas just a single extremely run on sentence? Cause if so, that's mad.

>>22030840
it sounds pleasant

>>22026072
here's one for the other dog, a female, "Kaya"

Kaya, eldest sister
and the seed of Hiawatha
in the forest in the nature
you were seeking for the water

'cross the landbridge, gentle kaya
with your ancient shaggy cousins
to the rhythm of the water—
run as much as you can stomach

you of sisters are most pious
you most listen to high master
"for you know he won't deny us"
when he bids you wait for water

you most listen to good master
and his voice is like a psalter
full of blessing, full of cursing,
and such words that hiawatha
never heard are reimbursing
hungry ears of happy kaya.

>>22032290
>"In ancient mind, where dignity's alive" comes across from the outset as idolizing the past in a rather stale way.
I'm pretty sure ancient mind refers to God and dignity refers to perfection.

O angel, fair path to the skies
and puissant push of heaven's freighty prow
upon my heart. All love
lords over, larded up with art,
with lies,
so I'll make better to be honest,
now:

Anon:
Before the dawn was ever bright
or first crept up behind the nascent corners of the earth, unborn,
unbidden yet, inchoate—all was dark—and bitter time
had yet forsworn
his plump, fat bride:
gravid eterni-tie.

When everything was tracework, cold and blue,
and Night sat brooding, singed by its own rime,
and ere first festal vernal spark
of infant primal stars
could trouble yet
that smooth and blameless dark...

THEN were you made—in thought if not in form,
in potentia, not yet *esse,* but indeed in power
Ready to raze the centuries to crumbling scorn
—when you are born—
when all that other, *lesser* beauty finds
its final hour.

>>22032321
did you read the poem?

> in ancient mind, where dignity’s alive,
>i find among the broken column stones,
>the lines once sung in Rome with solemn tones,
>where sacred signs, and imageries sublime,

he's idolizing some decrepit pagan customs. also see the poem's *name,* "The Shadow of Neptune"

My favorite Poets are Edwin Markham, William Watson, Frater Anselm, SpongeBob, and Arthur Hugh Clough, do you have any recs for me?

>>22032356
He is an esoteric poet. Later on in the thread he says it is about Kabbalah.

>>22000252

Here is just a few stanzas I worked on that I changed with some subtlety so see for yourself:
The Shadow of Neptune

In the ancient mind, where dignity stays alive,
i find among the broken column stones,
the lines once sung in Rome with solemn tones,
where signs kept sacred, and imageries so sublime,

of creeping vines, and symmetries aligned,
That which desires so strong, a revelation of sorts,
Where the golden blossoms never seem to give on up,
full laden by, infinity’s design,

intend each note, as it becomes incensed
such serenity take hold of me, repeating hallowed oaths,
i see the sheen, the gleaming grotto’s ghost,
who knows the soul, and groaning wormwood’ breath;


I think with some verses you lose the reader to what picture you're trying to capture.
What do you mean by 'sanguine vines?' Do you mean veins?
I feel like you often tell too much and would benefit from showing more often in your poetry.

>>22032434
Didn't read his whole poem but comparing your choices to his I don't really find yours better desu

I'm just a little disappointed that none of my poëms have received any criticism of any kind.

>>22032202
This is my favorite poëm in the thread so far: It shows an understanding of construction and I like the subject matter; the metaphor is good, the personification is good, and the characterizations are powerful. Aside from minor typographical errors, there are just a couple small lines that are a bit awkward fitting in with the rest of the ïambic pentameter:
>Easy to be distinguished from the crowd—
>Conq'ring soul, which masters what it spies,
Maybe the trochees at the beginning of the lines are supposed to be there for effect to keep the meter interesting, but in my opinion, it just ends up sounding clumsy.

If you have other poëms, I'd love to read them.

>>22032434
>what picture you're trying to capture
Dumb fucking camera metaphor, fuck off

>>22033007
I forgot to mention, it's not too flowery or hard to understand while still showing that the poët has a good grasp on language. It has a good sense of order and doesn't seem prætentious.

Please capitalize the lines, though! It'll look so much more professional.

>>22032434
You ruined his rhythm, especially at the last line. Also, how can you not see the connection between vines and sanguine? It represents liveliness, Dionysus, and Jesus Christ.

>>22012700
First one, I think you’d gain much by studying the various kinds of metrical substitutions because I see an interest in you in sound manipulation but it’s manifesting in ways gross to the texture and not directly to the texture, the few double rhymes I think while good in concept do chop up your control, well meant’s line feels rather led.

>>22012705
My first complaint is giving up on the three six nine end line pattern you started with, I think typhon is a wonderful subject and would have liked if you used more of Hesiod’s description, your meter isn’t stable enough to justify lines going out of wack like this “Lastly, blessings nine I’ll recognize affixt”

Your grammar is mangled because the line is bing bent just to rhyme six, there was undoubtedly a better phrasing.

>argent bone or greyhound tooth

Bad choices symbolically imo, while this may catch the unstudied, this creation neither fits the established symbols nor does it expand in a very corresponding way, while silver bones are nice, reds and harshness of all type are more appropriate.

>Master of the Storm and Sovereign of the Night,

Not a good grasp of the chaoskampf, in general the sea serpent spirit is in opposition to the stormy deity and this is the same here, typhon is explicitly defeated by the bolt of Zeus, you’re also over estimating the nebulous darkness of typhon, typhon is rushing energy and force and power, not quiet darkness.

>I adore the Jasper Desert, I adore
>Adamantine Stars who call you Lord aright;
>I adore the Golden Sun you guard afore,

I don’t oppose the trochaic rhythm but by not continuing the repetition of “the” before adamantine ruins the repetition, deflating the second line’s feeling of gravitas, you’re ruining the conceptual rhythm, afore is also very cheap.

Here’s a portion from a longer poem I’ve written, this section being an invocation of typhon.

the great demon typhon is last to come,
yet the first to hurl the earth to none
and to burst the world and curse the one.


galloping as a horse gallops against the wealds and stones,
galloping as the mysteriarch of empyreal midnight,
galloping as the ravening night which is starless and silent as death,
galloping as the ravelings of the plenilune, which weaves a rune,
galloping as the mark of the sword and the thorn which is the life-struck-drum,
which is within the infinite images as the life-impulse,
which is death to earth and birth to the breath of the inmost,
by this the words are lord over the mind and matter of man,
for this is cacophony, each line a kakodaimon born,
suspired the ether afire i breathe a form and face,
fabulous in fury and phenomenal in ferocity,
furrowing fields, flattening forts, fuscous in force,

Con

>>22033239
mellifluous tongued; susurrus tongued, ophdian tongued,
ursine ornithic, equine cancroid, caprine acaroid,
a hundred-hundred-hundred-hundred heads heaving,
as serpents slither twisting and hissing syllables,
gallops, walks, slithers, flies, swims and pouncing,
all things in shouting the world bouncing pronouncing
groans growls hoots howls croaks and roars,
innumerable, inseparable, ineffable,
all effable all sensible,
all said is he all said by he all says he is he,
furze gorse ulex whin, the breath is one,
he is drakon and typhon and ikon,
painted and written and spoken of
by the man the child the brook and wode ruin
and runed woods, the same-seen-silva of acher
like ben the Benjamin when rudra the jivan raped
and raped and raped the Levitic concubine,
the priest in me cutting twelve pieces from her face.

and typhon the dragon who is the phantasm of the ash black sun spoke laughing thus:

and so the poem continues,

>>22012709
>But stupid, quick, or embryon
The unknown inexistence next?

Control yourself don’t just fill up the line, you have to see how “stupid” isn’t the height of mind you’re going for, nor does “next” feel full of sufficient grandeur, it’s too common for what you’re trying to relate.

Last stanza is fine but I can tell you’re lapping around lines you’ve used multiple times and stitching them to a theme youre common with, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing mind you, but I think you must sit with yourself with this stanza and meditate, “what is the core aesthetic of this stanza and how can I dive deeper into its depth?”

>>22033007
Thanks for the criticism and praise. I don't even think I noticed that I was fudging the rules, that poem was basically an exercise in trying to play things very straight. These are my others:
>>22024062
>>22032307
>>22032350

>>22033007
>>22033319
Oh yeah also I was never taught that traditional rule about line beginnings or I never noticed it. Thanks for letting me know!

>>22012693
the overuse of rhyme jars against the ear imo, it strikes as saccharine. 5 EE sounds in 4 lines is way too much.

also: "I tortured be" when unknotted becomes "I be tortured," which sounds pretty silly!

They cut off the Poetry
Foundation horse's dick.

Look at 1937's cover,
there it is:
Muzzle, shaft, breach
and load. Subtle and ugly
as a toad.

Yet there
it is.

With ink they've also blotted out
his eyes. Sealed every seam in his
marvelous wings, immured each trace
in his black
of white.

But Pegasus, I must insist,
is male, in hitherto every myth
and image which is his.

How tedious, how common, then,
their failure is, who wish to feminize the world.

Woman the more by all this disadvantaged is,
for man is not so harmed as woman is thereby—
As man, (being ignorant), more tends to acknowledge,
less to feel,
what is amiss.

Re-member, then, I beg
your lofty pegasus
his dick.

>>22027431
>Can you rec some books on kabbalah and Chinese philosophy, especially Chinese philosophy? I was planning on rediving into the subject.

Sure.

For Kabbalah you should begin with Kaplan’s inner spaces then Jewish meditation and then his yetzirah commentary, then read all of his work, then read gershome Scholem’s works, then moshe idel, these three men will give you a very good primer to all manner of Kabbalah and will give you recommended reading further all in context, David chaim smith would be good to read last.

As for Chinese mystical and philosophical material:

The following are good for Chinese alchemy and Taoism in general.

If you know Chinese or have a friend that can help translate, ABSOLUTELY read the Daozang(it’ll be difficult even with knowledge of Chinese due to the age of the text)
Obviously you want laozi, Liezi and chuang Tzu.

For alchemical purposes I would recommend “ Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality” which I know sounds horrible, but it’s just a title, it’s actually a translation of a Taoist manual designed to take you from basically ignorance to adepthood with alchemy.

Also the alchemical classic “understanding reality” is very good as an introduction.

Holding the three ones is a very old text but I know it can be found online, so I highly recommend it.

But chief among the alchemical and metaphysical literature is ge Hong’s baopuzi especially the inner chapters (which there haven’t been new translations of for years but it does exist in translation.) his traditions of divine transcendence is also a phenomenal read.

I would also recommend the divine farmer’s classic of materia medica and also the Classic of Mountains and Seas.

Finally for purely ritual purposes I would recommend two pieces of literature.

The taoist master chuang which is a scholars work who was taught, first half of the book explains lineages and how he came to such knowledge second half is a grimoire tier explanation of how they actually work their magic with seals and how to draw and everything.

Also “mao Shan, tradition of great purity” is another excellent ritual-meditative text.

For pure meditation I would recommend the secret of the golden flower and the Zuowanglun

Here’s the Baopuzi, it’s the only difficult one on this list to find with a google search. http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=C774D46BA327AE36B18579830CDEF4B9

>but I would write and maintain an exoteric layer.

I don’t have an interest in exoteric writing nor emotion honestly.

Cont

>>22033350
>I hate the endless metaphors, maybe. I want a story or something easy to follow with this injected into it.

Eh, I don’t see myself as a story teller fundamentally, I see what I write as primarily hymns of a sort, really magical invocations if I’m being completely honest, and those do require the endless metaphors, I also believe it’s just a natural evolution of the metaleptic chain utilized by Shakespeare.

>I wouldn't have my monologue sound so unnatural. What do you think of that?

I would, I find that precisely what makes it stylistically interesting, being distinctly in my own control in every facet to, ideally, an unnatural degree of perfection.

>it seems I'm not helping.

Kek don’t worry about it, we just have different tastes, I am a hard case because I’m really posting for technical critique and book recs, like I appreciate any book recs and will look into them at a later date.

>But I think you identify as a Christian whereas I feel like an Odinist & Luciferian.

Doesn’t matter which tradition you study the core methodology of upward ascent then descending with power is gonna be there, see the emerald tablet, see Odin hanging then receiving the runes, see the Rosicrucian usage of the pentagram, etc.

>>22027467
As a Christian you shouldn’t be interested in magic for sorcery since that very reasoning of going into it is sinful, you should only be interested in these matters as an extension of wholesome mystical practice, in any case look up the arbatel and read that first to get an idea of how to approach this.

>>22030410
Hallo

>>22032290
>stodgy and moralistic, unfeeling. Sure,

Unfeeling sure, I wouldn’t say moralistic because the question of morals isn’t even there, I am genuinely religious and don’t have any doubt towards my ontology or mystical beliefs, nor am I in a culture which struggles with this honestly.

>But that's not what poetry is for these days.

Ye but I basically don’t read any poetry post 1950 unless I know they’re in the style I like, and I’ve spoken to many anons who prefer the older style and, most importantly, I myself prefer the older style not based on feelings.


>comes across from the outset as idolizing the past in a rather stale way.


Cont

>>22033352
The key word here is mind, the place of antiquity and glory is not actually Rome, the place where the music and beauty of the Roman type is not actually the pagan Rome, but the interior dignified mind of Man, the whole context of the poem is in that sort of athanasian and Plotinus view where the interior of man, his reason and imagination, are the very image of God and by dwelling in that place you can grasp the mysteries and knowledge of god’s nature, with the beauty of nature and the mind as a kind of method to reveal this numinous knowledge that is all-pervading the heart of man.

>damn the sentences are too long, it's unnatural.

Common convention in older poetry especially where commas are really being used as breath-stops and the period is being used as a marker of a completed stanza and completed grouping of imagery.

>>22032356
Neptune is being used for its multitude of symbolic meanings, in hermetic Kabbalah it is Neptune which rules over chokmah the sphere of God’s wisdom, the logos, the role of the poet and the illusion making magician and so forth, Neptune simultaneously being a deity of the sea and death allows for a number of symbolic substitutions all of which appropriate for a verse about trying to make the nature of God theurgically descend via images, the poem is clearly Christian since the death of Christ, his poured blood and the results of it are really the core image of it.

>>22032434
Ruins the meter and destroys the perfect assonance pattern which is symbolically being used for heaven and earth in perfect harmony, never seem to give on up doesn’t produce the same kind of image as the tireless blossoming of the golden flower, which itself is a reference to the taoist conception.

>sanguine vines?

Another example of double entendre usage, sanguine can mean cherry, happy, bright of personality, but also red, this is referring to grape vines, their happy Dionysian quality being contrasted to the cold solid perfection of mathematical carved lines in perfect symmetry, this line being an attempt to be reminiscent of the floral-architectural combinations used in Roman grotesqueries

>>22033350
>>22033352
>>22033355
Find God

>>22033357
Did, his name is Jesus.

My word, but
you excel. You are power in a single point.

In an Adobe house well we could live.
As the shockwaves of our love settled in our souls

Soon as a flash a family we’d give
to God, to this world, to ourselves.

My love,
as I live,
I love.

>>22033359
wtf I just realized it wasnt "Anselm." Sus

>>22033360
Cute wordplay!

>>22029624
I know it's already been said but this is still the winner for me. Keep up the good work and everyone else; pay attention. This is what a masterpiece looks like.

>>22033300
>>22033314
Thank you for your criticism! I would like to clarify that the being I call Týphón isn't the Græcian monster, but rather an Ægyptian diëty held as his equivalent. I figure his true name wouldn't have been familiar to English writers at the period in which I'm trying to write. It should make more sense in that light. I happily receive your other advice.

>>22033325
Thank you for your criticism! "I be tortured" sounds fine to me; it's meant to be archaic English, after all. I happily receive your other advice.

>>22033478
You mean apophis ? Or which? Because apophis wouldn’t fit it either.

>>22033489
I guess you can argue set as this since he’s a storm god and he battles the apep to defend ra thus the dragon he conquers, that would fit better your jasper desert line.

>>22033495
There you go!

>>22033352
>As a Christian you shouldn’t be interested in magic for sorcery since that very reasoning of going into it is sinful, you should only be interested in these matters as an extension of wholesome mystical practice
*raises eyebrow* o rly? I'm sure you've done Goetic summonings, what I'm seeking surely isn't as "sorcerous" as that. I just want something I can use for self-improvement, e.g. maximize gainz, increase intelligence, better health etc. Sort of like LoA but that seems far too "basic" to me.

>>22033300
>>22033314
Really like some of this. It's really aggressive and doesn't come off as unnatural or confusing as the other stuff.
>>22033350
Thank you for the recommendations. I hope they are all on libgen. And no, I do not know Chinese. Do you? Also, I finish reading your essay. Can you give me some more examples of aural shortening? Also, I don't know how long ago it was since you wrote that essay but your prose kind of sucks and you weren't very articulate. Thankfully, I was familiar with what you are talking about. I'm not sure if others could understand.
>>22033352
>I would, I find that precisely what makes it stylistically interesting, being distinctly in my own control in every facet to, ideally, an unnatural degree of perfection.
See I could agree with that but only depending on what I'm working on. I'm interested in the uncanny otherworldly alien characters and aesthetics. Imagining peasants encountering ancient Japanese aristocrats who had their eyebrows on their four heads performing highly controlled ceremonies inspires me, it must seem like seeing an alien. But some of your poetry is so grotesque, I think that you're not really selling me on the voice of the character you play.

>Eh, I don’t see myself as a story teller fundamentally,

I can understand not being interested in the form, but relationships and psychologies are still full of types and energies, which I do not see as negligible in self-development, governance, and artistry. This is related to my interest in getting back into Chinese philosophy, especially Chinese alchemy. If you have any book recommendations on typology and relationships, I would appreciate it because that's where I am at right now.
>>22033352
>Doesn’t matter which tradition you study the core methodology of upward ascent then descending with power is gonna be there, see the emerald tablet, see Odin hanging then receiving the runes, see the Rosicrucian usage of the pentagram, etc.
Right, you mean the ascent of recognizing the airy consciousness to then drop into the fiery will. That's how I'm taking it. I do not see the divinity primarily in the air but in the fire. I see the air something that organizes and creates seats for the fire. I'm not in an ascetic. When you are not seeking self-development or development of others, I think the point of life is to enjoy it. However, you need skills to maintain paradise.

>>22033768
> Goetic summonings

Which in the context of the book is for worship of god and if done in the martinis context is purely theurgic in practice, again if you’re not approaching magic from the perspective of knowing god to a greater degree, you are approaching it wrong.

>>22033781


> Really like some of this. It's really aggressive and doesn't come off as unnatural or confusing as the other stuff.

It’s part of a longer poem of which I’m sure you would not like for the whole of it is shifting unnatural styles of various types to demonstrate control constantly using the same metaphor unfolding.

Here read the whole verse if you desire.

https://controlc.com/7d3c9bd9

> But some of your poetry is so grotesque

I reckon yourself being a self avowed luciferian and my ideals being rather polar opposite, their proper manifestation being grotesque to you ought be a given.

> but relationships and psychologies are still full of types and energies,

This is better understood not through art, but through actual philosophy and better than this contemplation of nature in general, trying to grasp the mind through human fictional representations of archetypes will not be as profitable as the various means outlined in the books already given.

> t, you mean the ascent of recognizing the airy consciousness to then drop into the fiery will

Fire isn’t below in basically any model, the empyrean fire is the highest position which is reflected in the material position in air.

> the point of life is to enjoy it.

You should ready Austin osman spare, the edgy approach and the focus of thanatos-Eros as the core of religion is his entire thing, pleasure is the core of his conception.

>>22033781
Oh and on the prose, I take an inverse view of how prose writing should be done in essays, I see them (for myself) as non artistic and non aesthetic but rather an opportunity to info dump without care for form broadly, this is why you see a big contrast between and the other writing, near polar opposite ideal.

>>22033937
How is it that one can claim Goetic demon summoning is for "worshipping God" to one anon and then recommend Spare to another person in the same post... Forget the Christianity then, any recommendations?

>>22033955
>How is it that one can claim Goetic demon summoning is for "worshipping God" to one anon

Because that’s the point of it in the very book and how it is properly approached.

>and then recommend Spare to another person in the same post...

To the self admitted luciferian you mean, of which spare represents a significantly more refined approached to spirituality than the generic luciferian and would undoubtedly result in a refinement of his mind in contrast.

>Forget the Christianity then, any recommendations?

Once more going into magic purely for power is an ugly thing I do not support, the arbatel and the sixth and seventh books of Moses are good recommendations.