/lit/ - Literature

Monitoring this thread.

Tampa

Mom, Luke Keeps Touching Me

Careful now, Ned

>>21999391
>shota
Kys
Cunny for the win

>>21999456
cunny is shit, cannot even penetrate properly

>>21999456
The milfs (or generally older) women have cunny enough, you sicko.

>>21999391
Their Four Hearts has quite a lot of shota sex scenes, mostly straight but gay too, although it's not the main topic. The book is kino.

>>21999391
Venus and Adonis
A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man

I lost my /ss/ collection when my drive failed. I'm so sad about it, especially because some of them have been deleted off the internet and are gone forever.

Books for this feel?

>>22000176
Occasionally I check /b/. Hate it. End up on the /ss/ threads (if there is one) and get disappointed at the low quality.
...Someday I should dump some of the stuff I collected ages ago

>>21999416
Probably the raunchiest novel you'll find in a Dymocks, but it's not the best.

>>21999391
I thought Ekaterina by Donald Harington was damn good.

The Reader by Bernhard Schlink kinda counts, as the book is about a fifteen year old boy that had sex with a woman who was a former Auschwiitz guard. It's not really erotic however.

>>21999391
>/ss/
FUCK YES

>>22000098
>>22000154
>>21999416
>>22000334
>>22000460
moar

>>21999391
lolito

Do you accept light novels?
> Harem Pirates
> Are You Okay With a Slightly Older Girlfriend?

>>21999391
That's pedophilia and there's nothing you can say about it.

>>22001624
it's ok if women do it

>>21999391
>ss
Gay.
>gs
Straight.

>>22001624
>Dude my secular humanist notion of adulthood that has only existed for a less than a hundredth of all human history is the golden standard by which all times and places should be judged!
I slit your throat and will throw your body to the dogs.

>>22001624
>That's pedophilia

>>22001628
This but unironically

>>22001624
>That's pedophilia and there's nothing you can say about it.

>>22001651
>muh fantastic past where all my perversions and sexual deviances were absolutely normal!
Seethe more tranny you're like the satanic faggots victorian gothics that used pseudo history as set of their homosexual lust.
Even among the vast majority of primitive tribes there are innate concepts of pedophilia and homosexuality being wrong and punishable.

>>22001785
>Even among the vast majority of primitive tribes there are innate concepts of pedophilia and homosexuality being wrong and punishable
source: ...

>>21999391
>have an older women fetish all my life
>currently 29
>the big majority of "older women" in manga and anime are now younger than me

>>22001785
>>22001792
You should both kill yourself as soon as subhumanly possible.

>>21999391
How does one develop a fetish for cartoons of children being technically molested?
I ask this trying to free myself of all assumptions.
But I will admit I do believe at least a few of you are projecting on the boy.

>>22001792
yeah the Greeks were primitive tribes of course.
Also if you'd ever actually read anything greek from that era you'd realise that homosexuality was indeed permitted but it was quite an object of derision and disgust. Their literature was so full of very harsh jokes on faggots and child fuckers that it's would fly for a full meter nowadays.

>>22001878
>it was quite an object of derision and disgust
Poking fun at men for being fucked in the arse does not mean homosexuality in itself was "an object of derision and disgust" otherwise why would they build statues to fag couples like Harmodius and Aristogeiton

>He also wrote a law forbidding a slave to practise gymnastics or have a boy lover, thus putting the matter in the category of honour and dignified practices, and in a way inciting the worthy to that which he forbade the unworthy.
Plutarch, Life of Solon

>In youth and young manhood this sort of male is the best because he is by nature the most manly. Some people say such males are without shame, but that is not true. They do what they do not out of shamelessness but out of confidence, courage and manliness, and they embrace that which is like themselves. And there is good evidence for this in the fact that only males of this type, when they are grown up, prove to be the real men in politics.
Aristophanes speech, Symposium, 191e-192c

>Those inspired by this kind of love turn to the male, with an affection for that which is naturally more vigorous and has more sense.
Pausanias speech, Symposium 181c

>And many men, overall, prefer love with boys to love with females. In the very cities of Greece that have the best laws by comparison with others, this is the mode of behavior that fashionable.
Athenaeus, Deipnosophistae 13.601

>>22001887
You are a ridiculous cock sucking faggot.

>>22001888
Gonna cry?

>>22001891
>Gonna cry?
I'm going to laugh at your funeral.

>>22001888
Why are you saying it as it were something bad?

>>22001887
>wall of cherry picked quotes

there is a chart for this kind of stuff out there

>>22001991
They are quotes that poke a hole in the unqualified remark that it was "an object of derision and disgust"

>>22001887
based
>>22001888
cucked, also cope

>>22002006
Your selection of quotes comes from a tiny milieu of effete Athenian pederasts and their admirers.On the topic of Solon, let's see how their grandfathers treated homosexuals:
>"If any Athenian (he says) is a catamite („tair¸së), let him not be allowed to become one of the nine arkons, nor to hold a priesthood, nor to be a syndikos for the public; and let him never hold any public office (he says), neither at home nor abroad, neither by lot nor by vote; and let him not be a herald or an ambassador (nor put on trial those who were ambassadors, nor bring malicious prosecutions for payment17); and let him never deliver an opinion either in the Boule or in the assembly (even if he is a very clever speaker). If anyone transgresses these rules, he has established graphai for being a catamite and has imposed the severest penalties." (Ais. 1.19–20)
Being buggered was enough to make you lose your status as a man, and buggerers are ridiculed in plays and poetry. You're living in delusion if you think that Greece was anywhere near as tolerant of faggotry of as the Cloudcuckooland that is the modern West. Ten years ago you people were ridiculed and you think that Ancient Greece was some kind of faggot paradise.

>>22002051
You're quoting Against Timarchos selectively yourself. Aeschines says prostitutes are forbidden public office, not homosexuals. He makes this explicit:
>According to my definition, desire for those who are noble and decent is characteristic of the generous and discerning spirit, but debauchery based on hiring someone for money I consider characteristic of a wanton and uncultivated man. And to be loved without corruption I count as noble, to have been induced by money to prostitute oneself is shameful. (Against Timarchos 137)
And again:
>I shall tell you the names of older men who are well known, and young men and boys. Some of these have had many lovers because of their beauty, while others are still in the bloom of youth now; but none of them has ever been exposed to the same accusations as those made against Timarchus. And in contrast I shall give you the names of men who have practiced shameful and blatant prostitution; remembering these will help you to put Timarchus in the proper category. (Against Timarchos 155)
Let us look at some other things he says. Firstly, that he himself has had homosexual love affairs:
>Personally, I neither criticize legitimate desire, nor do I allege that boys of outstanding beauty have prostituted themselves; nor do I deny that I myself have felt desire and still do. And I do not deny that the rivalries and fights which the thing provokes have befallen me. As to the poems they ascribe to me, some I admit to, but in the case of the rest I deny that their character is that presented by my opponents, who distort them. (Against Timarchos 136)
That Solon permitted it:
>The same lawgiver said: ‘The slave is not to be the lover of a free boy, nor to pursue him, or else he is to receive fifty lashes with the public whip.’ But he did not prevent the free man from being a lover, from associating with or pursuing a boy, nor did he think that this brought harm to the boy, but saw it as a testimony to his self-control. (Against Timarchos 138-9)
Even that Homer wrote Achilles and Patroclos as fags!
>I shall speak first about Homer, whom we rank among the oldest and wisest of the poets. He mentions Patroklos and Achilles in many places, but he keeps their erotic love hidden and the proper name of their friendship, thinking that the exceptional extent of their affection made things clear to the educated members of his audience. (Against Timarchos 142-3)
I think you will need a new source for your cope.

>>22002089
I can find dozens more source, but needless to say in saner places fags are still lynched in the middle of the street.

>>22002121
Don't you have anything to say about what I have revealed about that source, though? I mean an intellectually honest person might concede that they should update their belief system. It seems that you are not interested in truth

>>21999391
>>>/crystalcafe/

>>22002089
>the green text doesn't say the things in the black text

>>22002132
Go on.

>>22002126
You are refuted by being a mentally ill butt bandit.

>>22002006
>unqualified
No because I am talking about the cultural sentiment not transcription tribunal cases, as I said the law permitted homosexuality.
As yourself implicitly admitted:
>Poking fun at men for being fucked in the arse
laughing and belittling homosexuals and use the implications of indulging in such practices was the normal sentiment of the Greek people, as it can be attested by more popular literary genres like theatrical screenplay.
Surely the ancient Greeks had some pretty liberal laws in their juridical system, along with slavery and basically the total repression of women. But pretending it was some sort of modern day fantasy of an ancient gay Disneyland is intellectual dishonesty at its finest.

>>22002373
The confusion comes from trying to slot the ancient Greeks into modern ideas of "homophobia" or "social tolerance". For instance, you describe the ancient Greeks as having "liberal laws" which speaks to this perceptual confusion, implying that the Greeks were sexually liberal because they permitted homosexuality.

Here is my idea of the sexual mores in ancient Greece, from what I've read:
Pederasty is governed by a sexual ethic similar to traditional ideas of heterosexual courtship. A key that opens many locks is a great key, a lock that is opened by many keys is a bad lock. The Symposium talks about how lovers that 'conquer' many boys are applauded, but boys who give themselves too quickly to lovers are shunned. Sexuality in a pederastic relationship is approved of, so long as the lover isn't motivated solely by sexual desire, but also by genuine love and desire to help the beloved.

Aristophanes makes fun of men who are passively homosexual, or have a reputation for getting fucked in the arse a lot. But he never makes fun of homosexual desire. And interestingly, Plato has him defend pederasts in the Symposium. So it is more like slut shaming than homophobia

>>22002412
A more modern and relevant confusion would be slotting the Greeks into a pro-LGBTQ+ narrative

>>22002451
And where have I done that?

>>22002453
a bit here and there

>>22001651
Any books with thick older women and younger boys? Doesn't even need to have /ss/. I can picture in my mind how they do it off-page.

>>22002735
>Drawn cellulite marks

>>22001842
most of the straight shota fans are into self-inserting as the child being touched by a milf, that's why the adult woman is drawn more erotically than the child. this may come from mommy issues, from not losing their virginity at the age they wanted (similar to rape kinks in women, being forced into sex relieves them from all responsibility over their lust) the fantasy is to have a sexy older woman forcibly love you so you have to make no effort and you can enjoy the pleasure with no shame. being a child is also a pretty good memory for some and they want to go back to those simpler times so they like it for that reason too
then there is the ppl who like the children and those are pretty self-explanatory

>>22002129
wait do crystalcafe girls like shotas? is it bc they hate adult men? are they just pedos? haven't heard much from there only that they are femcelesque

>>22002773
>being a child is also a pretty good memory for some and they want to go back to those simpler times so they like it for that reason too
Literally me, and mommy complex too ofc
>>22002741
That's a good thing!

>>22002781
>is it bc they hate adult men?
Most female pedos do

>>22000154
Adonis is more of a teen than a shota

Real literati know it's all about oneeloli.

>>22002932
I would kill to read any /ll/ literature. /ss/ is nice but nothing beats the purity of a love between a woman and a girl.

>>22002773
fucking hell, you have no right to be so true.

>>22001792
The idea a few drawings and texts exemplifies the entire culture's outlook and in general defining an era by its artists is frankly deranged and barbaric.

>>22002045
You are a shitdick.

>>21999420
A classic

>>22002781
they had to ban shota-posting because of how frequent it was. They're definitely into it big time.

>>22001887
Greeks had four words for love. Love in this case doesn't not necessarily equal eros I could see how that would be hard for a sodomite to understand.

>>21999391
>>21999456

This has is all, described in graphic details

>In my first class at grammar school at just over ten I all but took a decisive step towards my geschlechtliche Aufklärung (sexual enlightenment) as the Germans call it. We had then a servant girl Masha (diminutive of Mariya). She was a buxom country girl of between eighteen and twenty, very different from the city girl Pelageya. Whereas Pelageya had given children lessons only in goodness and religion, Masha undertook my 'sexual instruction'.

>To get back to the urinals, I have noticed that little girls generally are more willing to stare if they are lower-class. The overwhelming majority of upper-class girls avert their eyes when they walk past a urinal. The girls of the lowest class, the most ragged, look at the male organ with emphatic cynicism, stop to get a better look, turn round and laugh and sometimes chat about it at the top of their voices.

>>22001651
"A lot of people found *insert thing here* acceptable" is not the big gotcha that you think it is, you really are not arguing anything, simply pointing out the opinions of dead people is not arguing.

>>22000518
Fuck it, I'm gonna write it. Maybe then the females will understand us.

>>22001831
Better luck in your next life

>>22003249
It’s not “just a few drawings and texts” it is practically every major and minor text handed down to us, as well as over 1,000 archeological artefacts
>>22004317
Yes and thankfully we know when they are talking about homosexuality because they use the word eros for it

>>22005280
For fuck's sake you retard, why are you making me reiterate a point that doesn't bear repeating?

If most Greeks were shitdicks, no one would breed. That's literally all the historical evidence you need to put a lid on this nonsense.
>as well as over 1,000 archeological artefacts
1,000 objects of dubious evidence symbolizes and accurately surmises the opinions of 1,000,000 greeks, SO effin' true bestie!

>>22005027
Only a woman could write Lolito, retard

>>22005335
You're retarded. The Greeks were behaviourally bisexual. Even exclusive pederasts married and had kids.

>>22005408
>All one million Greeks were bisexual based on the anecdotal behavior of a small class of aristocrats who were confirmed to be the primary practitioners of pederasty in Greek society anyways
Could you post your address so I can beat you into a bloody pulp, maybe even kill you? You're psychologically abusing me with this bad faith argumentation so I feel perfectly justified in doing so.

>>22005430
What is this "confirmed" shit? What exactly is your primary source evidence for believing that? Also even if that is the case, the "small class of aristocrats" are the only people anyone cares about when they talk about "the Greeks" and "ancient Greek culture".

Just wanted to point out it’s funny how extremely emotional the people trying to defend the greeks from homosexuality and pedophilia are getting compared to the much calmer person arguing for it actually providing evidence and refuting evidence when it is provided. Very embarrassing behaviour lol

>>22005476
has proved anything, just posted a quote mine refering to 'love' which is vague in itself and even then doesnt reflect greek society as whole

hasnt*

>>22005432
>What is this "confirmed" shit?
You mean how it's "confirmed" that pederasty is primarily an invention of aristocratic education institutions like the numerous anecdotes of your meme strawman image (correctly) retorts in my stead?
>What exactly is your primary source evidence for believing that?
When statistics show that less than 10% of our modern day population considers themselves homosexual by any metric, and that a far less degenerate society like Ancient Greece has even less reason to be immersed in a culture of lurid displays of open sexuality like our modern day west? Anyone who's not a feminized, permanently online zoomer queer like you can intuitively understand homosexuality is literally not even a thing that runs through the minds of most normal people.
>Also even if that is the case, the "small class of aristocrats" are the only people anyone cares about when they talk about "the Greeks" and "ancient Greek culture".
refer to >>22003249 and proceed to kys you fucked up tranny frankenstein abomination.

Anything you attempt to argue from this point on can be safely dismissed as sophistry by the way.

>>22005526
Yes, generally around 0.5-1% of the population in any society has a homosexual orientation. But orientation is not the same as behaviour. Many homosexuals have had heterosexual sex and relationships. Similarly, in certain contexts (such as boarding schools, prisons, etc.) many heterosexuals will have homosexual experiences. Situational homosexuality, particularly pederasty, is very common in societies with rigid separation of the sexes. Ancient Greece was one such society. It was taboo for women to be in public spaces. When they did leave the house they had to wear veils and be accompanied by male relatives. There was a separate room in houses for women so that they wouldn't be seen by male guests. Etc. etc. It was basically Islamic (another culture with lots of pederasty). Women were also not very good partners. They were uneducated and uncultured. Marriages were arranged and not based on love. So the only meaningful romantic attachments men had were usually with boys or (as with Pericles) with high class courtesans. This is why Plato, when he talks about love (eros), primarily discusses relationships between men and boys, and barely references heterosexuality at all.

You don't seem to be arguing coherently. On the one hand you say that homosexuality can't have been common because homosexuals are few in number, and that ancient Greece was far less "degenerate", but then you also say pederasty was invented by the aristocratic class and a staple of their education system. So which is it?

You also make conceptual errors in your argument. For instance you say that ancient Greece can't have had "lurid displays of open sexuality", as if homosexuality necessarily involves this. But the available evidence shows that homosexual affairs were governed by a rigid set of sexual morals comparable to those governing courtship between men and women in the Victorian era. And when Plato discusses sex, he often discusses it euphemistically, using the word "gratification", without reference to specific sex acts. That being said, the Greeks did not have our squeamishness about the human body. They wrestled and exercised naked. Their gods and heroes were often naked. Their sacred Hermae were decorated with erect penises. Aristophanes' comedies are full of extremely crass sex jokes. Aeschylus, in one of his tragedies, has Achilles cry out in mourning about the sexual communion of the thighs he shared with Patroclos.

>>21999420
holy kino

>>22005560
>Yes, generally around 0.5-1% of the population in any society has a homosexual orientation.
Why do you continue posting then, when the very first sentence here acknowledges the indisputably correct nature of my argument?
>But orientation is not the same as behaviour.
Nigger babble.
>Many homosexuals have had heterosexual sex and relationships.
Okay, I see what you're trying to do you subversive little jew. To summarize the rest of your paragraph, you as a feminine faggot are basically arguing on behalf of all the Greek men that they MUST have desired certain traits in their partners, one of which is education and knowledge... which is odd if you're even slightly implicitly aware to the fact that most of the working class Grecian folk remained overwhelmingly uneducated and illiterate throughout their lifespans. Like all pseudo-intellectuals with weak spirits, you're just projecting your desire to be overpowered and dominated by a feminine half and asserting it as true of other men.
>This is why Plato, when he talks about love (eros), primarily discusses relationships between men and boys, and barely references heterosexuality at all.
Also a feminine faggot.
>You don't seem to be arguing coherently. On the one hand you say that homosexuality can't have been common because homosexuals are few in number, and that ancient Greece was far less "degenerate", but then you also say pederasty was invented by the aristocratic class and a staple of their education system. So which is it?
There is no contradiction here.
>For instance you say that ancient Greece can't have had "lurid displays of open sexuality", as if homosexuality necessarily involves this.
It does.
>But the available evidence shows that homosexual affairs were governed by a rigid set of sexual morals comparable to those governing courtship between men and women in the Victorian era.
>And when Plato discusses sex, he often discusses it euphemistically, using the word "gratification", without reference to specific sex acts. That being said, the Greeks did not have our squeamishness about the human body. They wrestled and exercised naked. Their gods and heroes were often naked. Their sacred Hermae were decorated with erect penises. Aristophanes' comedies are full of extremely crass sex jokes. Aeschylus, in one of his tragedies, has Achilles cry out in mourning about the sexual communion of the thighs he shared with Patroclos.
Yep Greece was a paradise for homosexuals everywhere and was chock full of gay liberal bullshit... and the source for such open level of gayness? At the behest of "rigid" non-consents. BRAVO leftists.

Seriously, this is all just fucking horseshit.

>>22005526
>>22005678
bro you're so fucking delusional holy shit

>>22005678
anon you do know you can see the fact that 1) greeks were not 100% homosexual (nobody ever claimed that) because those are naturally rare 2) the fact that a lot of the important and remembered people practiced this, even when the uneducated masses didn't and 3) the culture created by the aristocrats and the laws and the practices and the systems in place promoted such behavior... and still think pederasty is wrong. the quotes that other anon posted were of many people (one being literally hitler so no it isn't a "leftist" or a subversive little jew" thing) who knew of the greek homosexuality and still opposed it.
you are only doing your own argument a disservice by pointing at the vulgar masses for your bastion of heterosexuality standing against the best men the greeks had to offer and peaks of greek thought and art
you are blinded by modern republican culture war nonsense that you think the greeks are considered liberal by anyone, if anything modern readers would oppose the pedophilic and the explicit misogyny of the whole thing. but no, if you see a gay then it must be the strawman that propaganda put in my head!

>>22005726
I'm not your bro you little mulatto nigger.
>>22005736
>you made heckin' sweeping blanket claims bro!
>entire argument is a result of me mocking the blanket statement that Greeks were "behaviourally bisexual"
lmfao

I hate you trannies so much it's unreal.
>even when the uneducated masses didn't
They were most of the Greek population, which is what I was arguing in favor of to begin with. You assumed they didn't matter or was somehow a small part of my argument (it wasn't) because the obsession with Greece's purported homosexuality stems from this obsession with academia and their intellectual traditions to begin with, not because it's actually true and attests to some sort of legitimacy.

>>22005678
You seem to be very focused on my sexual habits. Personally I don't get aroused by submission (I'm purely a dominant), but if it makes you feel better to fantasise about me being topped by ancient Greek men, then feel free to do so.

The contradiction I'm talking about is that on the one hand you lionise ancient Greek culture and say that it cannot have been as "degenerate" as I am claiming, while at the same time you try to relegate pederasty to the "upper classes". The problem is that the "upper classes" were the culturally creative class and responsible for most of what you like and admire about ancient Greece. The same men you idolise as virtuous were the ones practicing pederasty. Because you need the ancient world to fit inside your modern moral categories, you are unable to resolve the contradiction. It leads you to ridiculous conclusions, like calling Plato a "feminine faggot". Even though Plato was probably one of the Greeks most hostile to homosexual sex (which tells you a lot about ancient Greek culture, if his main discussions of love are nevertheless homoerotic).

Another example of your inability to think outside modern categories is that you keep calling it "gay liberal bullshit" and talking about "liberalism". I have already said there was nothing "liberal" about Greek sexuality. This is like considering ancient Pythagoreans (or Hindus) to be the same kind of person as a modern vegan activist, just because they both practice ethical vegetarianism.

I never said it was a "paradise" for gays. In many ways it was not. Aristophanes talks about how some men would prefer to live with each other as couples, but are forced to marry women out of social convention. Pederasty was in most cases a transitional life stage. You would have relationships with boys during your teens and 20s, but in the end you were expected to get married and have kids. All I am saying is that pederasty was widely practiced, generally tolerated, and, in certain respects, approved of. As Foucault said, "boy love was a problem" for the ancient Greeks. It was something they talked a lot about, because they had mixed feelings about it. But in most cities it was not illegal and it was not taboo.

Here are some of the famous Greek men who had homosexual attachments: Socrates, Solon, Sophocles, Euripides, Alexander, Alcibiades, Aristides, Epamonindas, Lysander, Zeno of Citium, etc.

The Greeks also believed Heracles had boy lovers.

It's worth noting that your contention that pederasty was alien to the lower classes doesn't seem to be universally true. Socrates was of humble origins and lifestyle. And people did not seem shy about discussing their love affairs in the law courts, where the jurors were mostly working class men. And in the Symposium it is associated, at least rhetorically, with democracy, and freedom from oligarchic tyranny (though we also see conservative aristocrats like Theognis and Critias practicing it).

>>22005736
Also
>vulgar masses
Shut the fuck up and slit your throat you atomized bourgeois faggot.

>>22005783
>The contradiction I'm talking about is that on the one hand you lionise ancient Greek culture
I've done no such thing. I'm a right wing populist through and through, and I concede to no delusions about Greece, only that academia has muddied this country's legacy with this subversive pro-LGBT+ hogwash that they falsely attest Greece embodied. This is why I called you a bad faith shitter, you bad faith shitter.

>>22005793
Well I only said that you "lionise ancient Greece" because you said earlier that ancient Greece was "a far less degenerate society" than ours, which implies some level of admiration. I'm really not trying to argue in bad faith here. I would like to have an earnest conversation with you. What I find strange is your contention that "academia" has "muddled this country's" legacy, when I provided dozens of examples of people from pre-modernity saying the same thing.

>>22005783
That's a lot of words to say you're a filthy faggot who came into an unrelated thread to tell us all about how you want to bugger little boys.

>>22005805
>Well I only said that you "lionise ancient Greece" because you said earlier that ancient Greece was "a far less degenerate society" than ours, which implies some level of admiration.
In terms of aesthetics and morality it is superior to our own, yes.
>What I find strange is your contention that "academia" has "muddled this country's" legacy, when I provided dozens of examples of people from pre-modernity saying the same thing.
Your obsession with the specific anecdotes of specific individuals is what I find so abhorrent and suitably academic to begin with. You haven't even begun to form a Grecian ideal in your head, only kissing Plato's wrinkly nutsack like you have time and time again.

>>22005819
I admire Plato but I am certainly not a Platonist. I'd say my idea of the "Grecian ideal" is closer to Nietzsche's. "Specific anecdotes of specific individuals" is a rather conveniently derogatory way of describing primary source evidence. Would you like to provide some of your own? Or do you have any requests for any specific type of evidence that might convince you?

stop arguing and post more ss you fucking baboon niggers

>>22005560
>But orientation is not the same as behaviour
Not the other guy you're arguing with but this is absolutely bullshit.
No heterosexual man would even think of fucking another man in the ass, and even if he thinks about it he will recoil from disgust when faced to it.
I have gay friends and I have no problems with faggots in general but when they kiss and I am near them I can't help myself but feeling ill in my stomach.

>>21999416
Read the preview and it's pretty spicy. Like that she's portrayed as a genuine sociopath. Might pick it up.

>>22005848
Yeah another *man*. That's why the Greeks preferred boys..

>>22005860
You are now implying that I would be turned on by witnessing an act of pederasty, an old man fucking a male child yeah.
Trannies deserve the rope and that's about it.

>/ss/ thread
>Devolves into an shouting match over whether or not the gayreeks(especially Athenians) had buttsex(technically thigh-"sex") with little boys and whether or not pederasty is gay.
LMAO get fucked shotafags

>>22005833
>>22005884
i just wanted some ba/ss/ed kino

>>22005900
Sorry

/sm/ > /ss/
keep malding

>>22005966
Dangerously based.

Somebody just wanted some smut and you idiots had to sperg about the Greeks and ruin the thread

>>22001981
>He doesn’t know
>AH JEEZE, DOOD

>>22005966
Small male? Straight moid? Single man?

>>22004124
All it takes is a hand full of fan girls and the place gets flooded. The BO wanted to take it in a different direction than just another place for smut.

> page 10
I WILL NOT LET YOU DIE!!!

>>22003249
Artists are degenerates by nature
Manu advises to promptly kick them out of the city

>>22005966
Sigma Male?

>>21999391
>Thread about straight shota books
>80% of posts are about homosexuality
>no one bothers to discuss the few actual shota books mentioned itt

this board is a mistake

>>22005526
>statistics show that less than 10% of our modern day population considers themselves homosexual
Considering the total number of LGBTQ+ in Canada ---- probably the most LGBTQ+ -friendly country in the world ---- was LESS THAN 2%, it stands to reason that anything near 10% is a vast exaggeration.

>>22009953
This board is full of chatty homo-sexemen

>>22001651
He just said it was pedophilia anon, not that it should be judged. Is there something wrong, anon?

>>22005678
>gay liberal bullshit.

Are you for real?

>>22009953
>this board is a mistake
Name a single board that isn't

>>22011709
/cm/

>>22005771
After reading through this thread your entire sequence of posts hinges on
>AHHHHHH KIDS THESE DAYS SAVE ME SOCRATES
>AHHHHHH SEXUAL BOOGEYMAN
You're overexposed to the internet and underdeveloped socially. React to that in whatever way makes you feel in control so long as you recognize it

>>22005678
>>22005771
Honestly impressive levels of seething

>>22011750
fair enough, never been there, so I can't argue.

>>22011687
What do you feel
Finders keepers, losers weepers baby
If I could get the lid off, I'd look into the jar
Is this the best thing that I can do? It ain't done me no good so far

>>22011709
>frog poster
>the reason all boards are just /b/

How’s it feel knowing most people want you dead?

Gays truly are deranged. They couldn't help but trash a thread where the cute young boys are having sex with women. Then latching over their retarded views that Greeks were like themselves (parroting that Achilles and Patroclus were fags should already be enough to disqualify from talking).

>>21999391
What makes one attracted to /ss/ as a straight man? I never quite understood. I find the idea of diddling boys repulsive, but somehow the power dynamic of older girl-younger boy makes it extremely hot. Maybe I just wish the same happened to me.

>>22004949
Pointing out that you are an inhuman freak of time and place is the greatest argument of all. My descendants will piss on the 20th Century's grave.

>>22013832
>Maybe I just wish the same happened to me.
I think that's the appeal for most men. We all had a hot teacher, or a babysitter, or etc., who we would've loved to bang even if we weren't sexually aware enough to recognize it at the time. We're self-inserting into the boy in these stories in our lust for older women at that age, as opposed to lolicons who are there for the girl.

>>22013865
>we

>>21999391


>>>>>> Alissa Nutting writes this type of shit

>>22013870
You...you aren't?

>>22013928

bump

>>22001651
Lisa...

I just know a few stories in asstr

Mrs. Rosa(teacher and student, ages mid 30s and 13) by Rysa lyn
Babysitter's Favorite(Babysitter and little kid, ages 19 and 10) Also by Rysa lyn
Theophane(school nurse and student, ages 29 and 11) by Svetlana vassilianova but sadly only in french.

>>22001831
now you get why people self insert as shotas. The only thing you can do now is imagine what it could had been.

>>22002773
>the fantasy is to have a sexy older woman forcibly love you so you have to make no effort and you can enjoy the pleasure with no shame.
this only partially relates to the conditions you mentioned before.
In the case of mommy issues it could be about getting a type of love that they didn't get in their childhood (usually educated by other mothers but mostly fiction, making it extra prone to bizarre extra perversions because the desire wasn't entirely material in the first place).

You could also add the "teacher" subclass. Where instead of a maternal kind of love it ties to the fantasy of what adults are supposed to be and the individual probably failed to achieve because it's an unrealistic standard.

>>22005398
I didn't expect to find someone saying a woman can write at Nabokov's level in 4chan. Pretty progressive of you.

>>22011750
that's because you get one anon per day. You can't discuss that way

Pedo

>>22016716
no, the idea is having a pedo diddle you when you were a kid

If we're doing short stories then I know a couple but on Literotica:
"Under the Falcon's Wing" - an older mongol-esque female warrior takes a boy priest as her slave (It's actually quite wholesome at the end).
"Takeover" - a boy is arranged married with an older rich CEO woman and turns into her househusband.
"Monsterboy quest" an older female knight happens upon cute monsterboys. (I only read the first chapter but I really liked it)
All by taiyakisoba.

Also I'm pretty sure Literotica bans underage stuff so it's not 'technically' shota to cover the author's ass but while the ages of the boys aren't specified they're pretty clearly supposed to be young.
"A taste for Christmas Cake" (also by taiyakisoba) is good as well but that's more older woman younger guy.

>>22016850
>"A taste for Christmas Cake"

Subtle.
I am stuck between desiring to be the one in control and wanting them to be in control. I guess that ebb and flow is just a natural part of the romance play in couples.

>>22005784
that's true even from a socialist perspective. The proletariat are rendered effete due to lack of class consciousness which is the whole point of establishing a Vanguard of the most conscious of the proletariat or their class traitor allies to lead and influence the lesser.

>>22017333
Vanguard parties made more sense before mandatory education, when the material conditions change the methods change.

>>22017211
I get that. I'm more partial to the woman being in control since the opposite kind of 'taints' the idea of the shota being innocent. I know /ss/ by it's nature has very skewed power dynamics and there's plenty of art that explore the two extremes but I wish there was more stuff that focused on a more mutual, tender, even-footed sexual back and forth. "Under the Falcon's Wing" and pic rel are the only texts I've really read (so far) that focus on it, where the more experienced woman slows down to teach and eventually bring the boy up to speed in a way that isn't completely overpowering.

>>22017379
I think shotadom is more about the woman being dominated by someone who by no rights should be able to, so it's extra humiliating. Like a completely different fetish using the same building blocks.

>>22017379
Very true anon.
Of course for me the focus is on the older woman partaking in her pleasure than on the kid - I'm not sure how many people here self-insert in that; in that lieu Dostoyefky's 'The Gambler' is an excellent read.
>>22017410
You think that would be read by women?

>>22017485
>You think that would be read by women?
some of them sure, hentai is surprisingly unisex. But I feel it's closer to ugly bastard and other types of "having sex with the wrong person" humiliation which appeals to men.

>>22017496
Holy shit I need to find a 'dominant shota x fat ugly femcel older woman' read NOW

Read Pam and Jeremy

>>22001831
I turned 30 today, and I've had an Older Woman fetish my entire life. Lately, my fantasies and yearning for that kind of relationship have been through the roof, despite the utter impossibility of it at my age. It really hurts, bros. I can't tell you how badly I wish I could have a do-over.

>>22001998
There isn't, actually. There's one for lolis, but not shota.

>>21999391
All "if the roles were reversed/it's ok when women do it" arguments aside, why do you guys even find milfxshotacon attractive?

>>22017578
If you haven't had 40+ year old woman drink your cum then you're a failure

>>22017496
i thought female shotacons mainly read yaoi
the milf shiet is consumed by male shotacons

>>22017605
Emphasizes a woman's mommyness
Realistic size difference/femdom scenarios are possible
Nostalgia for when you wanted to fuck your babysitter/teacher/friend's mom
Depraved/predatory women are sexy
Young boy lust is uncorrupted by adult notions of shame/status
Coming of age scenarios

Not all of these reasons apply to all /ss/fags, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some, but these are some reasons

>>22017605
My mom used me as an emotional cumrag to cope with my abusive father. I just want the same thing, except she also fucks me, isn't directly related to me, and actually nurtures and encourages me, instead of using me as a human emotional shield.

>>22017634
i guess i'm mainly speaking from my experience, but when i was a young boy i never really had the same sexual attraction towards older women the same way i did with girls around my age, and even then i never thought of getting further
i was raised religiously and to not make any premarital sex relations, so that might explain it, but once i turned like 14 or 15 i became super horny and want a big booba milf

honestly, i guess there really is bit of a difference between how younger boys and girls perceive sex, but i'm only willing to tolerate to a 14 or 15 year old male; any relations between a grown woman and a prepubescent or under 13-year-old boy seems just as gross as the other way around, and it's really more because i wonder what a woman sees attractive to a young boy

but i think we should rely more on expert psychological sources than our personal feelings on this

>>22017639
did this really happen? how old were you?

>>22017648
and even in cases with teen girls and grown adult men in their 50s, i don't think it's necessary to automatically victimize a 17-year-old girl if she wasn't coerced, though i do agree that the man is gross for pursuing a young age

>>22017659
Yes, it happened. I was 8 when I realized something was deeply wrong with our mother-son relationship, but it went on for my entire life. We still have a codependent relationship, but I've recently moved away across the country, so I'm hoping to find some real healing.

I still call my girlfriend 'Mommy' when I'm drunk, although I've recently asked her to gently stop me from doing so as soon as I do. I don't actually like being this way, or having this fetish. It's painful, but every once in a while, I indulge in it for comfort.

>>22017673
you okay man? did it psychologically harm you any means?

i don't necessarily want to automatically victimize you, but i don't think it praise-worthy either
she sounds like a sick fuck, and your father also seems like a shithead, but i don't want to make any assumptions towards how you perceived it

>>22017684
>you okay man? did it psychologically harm you any means?
I'm in a thread with fat grown men arguing about pedophiles who have been dead for over 2000 years, thirsting over the idea of being 9 and getting molested by a woman in her 40s. Take a wild guess.

Pic related, its from a conversation with my girl last night. Song was 'Spectral Bride,' by Giles Corey.

In any case, I don't think she wanted to victimize me, either. She just wanted to survive, and her own childhood was unbelievably abusive, so she had no real reference point for a healthy mother-child relationship in the first place. Ironically, my dad was abusive precisely because of his own mommy issues (mom was extremely physically abusive, he perceives all women as ultimately out to get him). I can't really say whether she's a 'sick fuck' or not, except to say that's still my mother, and I certainly wouldn't take kindly to anyone calling her that IRL.

>i don't want to make any assumptions towards how you perceived it

I don't mean to blog-post or anything, but feel free to ask me anything. Some other fun details:

>circumstantial evidence suggests I was MAYBE have been molested by an older woman when I was 4 or 5
>once almost fucked a woman 36 years older than me, but my own mommy issues somehow stopped me
>once got incredibly drunk with some friends, compared notes and realized 2/3rds of us had been sexually abused at one point or another

>>21999420
my first proper erotica, that was really hot

>>22017724
Well, sorry you've gone through all this, and I hope you'll be able to heal. I don't necessarily blame you for not resenting her. I'm just grateful that I never dealt with this kind of molestation at such a young age.

I will say though that I too have some mommy dom fetishes. I also like the idea of a larger, thicc and sexy older woman dominating and nurturing me, but it has less to do with "mommy issues" or trauma and just me being horny and into milfs and all. I guess I might even have some interest in shota fiction, but that's mainly because it's fictional; I cross the line at real instances of older women lusting after little boys.
A similar thing could be said about rape fantasies, because fantasy and reality are two different things we can separate.

>>22017724
and anyways that's a nice song
not too much of a huge fan of this style of dark folk music, but the lyrics are deep and poetic

>>22017742
Oh, I very much resent her. But I'm working on it. Thanks, anon.

>>22017748
Yeah, Dan Barrett has a lot of great projects. Have a Nice Life (post-punk) and Black Wing (dark electronica) are also great. But yeah, these lyrics cut real deep.

>>22017764
how do you feel about metal?
i'm not too much into the edgy tough guy stuff a la lamb of god or deftones; i'm mainly into uplifting and melodic works like kamelot or iron maiden, though i also like a bit of classic extreme bands like sadistik exekution

>>22017764
also i know you may not feel comfortable bringing it up again, but have you ever considered filing a court case against your mother or father?
i'm not saying you should, it's up to you, but have you ever had that thought?

>>22017785
Absolutely not. I have a pretty warped sense of morals (for largely unrelated reasons, lol), and I find such behavior dishonorable. As for being comfortable, I don't mind talking about this at all. It helps get it off my chest, as I usually just keep it under wraps. I know I keep mentioning her, but my girlfriend is one of the few people I have talked to about this at all.

>>22017779
I'm really into black metal, actually. But I like Iron Maiden a bit. Really liked Manowar when I was younger, but these days I mostly listen to stoner rock like The Sword or Elder.

>>22017790
i've been trying a bit of darkthrone recently
i kind of missed when metal actually had distinct productions rather than trying to aim for that "perfect" tone

Anyways, how do you feel about loli/shota fiction in general? Do you find it enjoyable or disgusting, or no comment?
I just know that it's fiction, and we have been being a bit too judgemental on Japan on this.

>>22017790
I know it's reddit and all but have you considered psychotherapy? Of course, it would be difficult to find a good psychologist/psychiatrist who isn't a hack.

>>22017799
As you can probably imagine from my presence in this thread, I'm very fond of shota fiction. It brings me comfort to imagine myself being seduced by an older woman, although most of my fantasies have happier endings than what's available in real-life, or in literature. I did read a (probably fake) account from an anon here a few years ago that had a very happy ending; He tracked down the woman who molested him, who turned out to be "only" 10-15 years older than him. After some awkwardness, they resume their relationship as two consenting adults.

Loli, on the other hand, disgusts and perturbs me on a fundamental level. I know it's wrong, and its something else I've been trying to overcome, but I ascribe to the double-standard where shota is okay. Morally, I know that's wrong, but the heart wants, etc. And going off of that, I actually don't think we're hard enough on anyone for lolishit.

That said, I wouldn't wish being molested on anyone (except myself).

>>22017822
interesting, you know of any shota fiction you'd recommend? i read scarlet ann comics, maybe you'd enjoy that?
i guess i am also a bit guilty of possessing such double standard, but only when it comes to cartoon/literature fiction
instances in live action entertainment kind of irks me; i remember from a television serial where a woman used magic to force a man to be her sex slave, and it kind of rubbed me off the wrong way, even though she was a pretty well-written character

however, i am very concerned about my overall porn addiction for five years
worst case scenario i fear that i might turn into a sex predator, or to a lesser extent i won't be able to satisfy my partner or i might bald or something
and if i get caught i'll be disowned
and i've heard there's been a lot of sex trafficking going on

>>22017804
Of course, I have a great psychologist whom I've worked with for a few years. I've recently moved, so I need to find a new one, unfortunately.

>>22017850
No, I don't really have any recommendations. That's actually why I'm here, because I don't know enough media. As for porn addition, that's a very real danger. Porn-induced erectile dysfunction is VERY real, and you definitely won't be able to satisfy anyone if you come down with that. I would very much advise doing whatever you can do break this addiction and get beyond it. The benefits of NoFap are very real. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to harvest your loosh.

>>22017881
yeah, i've heard
if my dad can quit smoking after decades, then i have no excuse

>>22017822
I've always found the "shota is ok but loli is not" thing a bit weird, particularly as someone who likes both, but people like what they like and dislike what they dislike, doesn't haves to make sense.

>>22001831
>>22017578
You two were probably raised by an overbearing mom.

>>22017822
Are you talking about that rayne-trice story? What made you think it was fake?

>>22017634
Astolfo in the back

>>22001624
Pedophile? It's a compliment.

>>22017410
I never really though about it too much before but you're absolutely right about it being two different fetishes. /ss/ where a tutor steals a small, timid boys virginity and /ss/ where a big-dicked, brat dominates his tutor push very different buttons despite essentially being the same scenario. I find that the former's softer, more seductive nature lends itself better to text, whereas the latter seems better suited in a more visual medium, but maybe that's just personal preference.

bump

>>22017605
I like my erotica to be tender and vulnerable but seeing a man in a vulnerable position isn't very hot usually at least not when they're being submissive. Even just imagining a grown man with a beard and muscles sucking on a breast feels icky to me because the infantalization there clashes too much with the image and expectation of a man, but imagining a young, smooth-faced boy in the same position isn't because the infantilization there is more expected. But that's a mostly aesthetic.
In terms of power dynamics "Ekaterina" has an interesting take where it likens taking someones virginity with an author telling a wholly original story to a reader, whereas fucking a non-virgin is like an author sharing a story they think is original only for the reader to go "yeah, no, I've heard that one already." "Tampa" acknowledges something similar where the teacher, after taking the kid's virginity, revels in the fact that she's now forever in his mind and every future woman he's with will seems 'lesser' in comparison to her. There's a selfish pride in it from the older party that I think both /ss/ and loli stuff share. But I think there's more specifics that separate loli from shota content.
In addition to the other reasonings provided ITT I'd like to add that men are usually expected to be in control and know what they're doing when it comes to sex. I imagine that a lot (or at least some) guys wish to be alleviated of that constant pressure by allowing someone else to take the reins in a truly nonjudgmental way, and I believe that childhood is really the only time in a man's life where they're allowed to do that in a way that doesn't seem pathetic (again referring back to the infantalizing aspect of it).
This is of course referring to dominant woman /ss/. The power fantasy / female humiliation of shotadom I think is more obvious and straight forward.

You fags might enjoy 'My Secret Life', an autobiography by a Victorian man about his sex life

>>22001624
It is, but it it is a desire to be the child in the relationship. (Unless you’re talking to a woman who likes ss)
>>22001628
It is a drawing. And again, there’s no danger of little boys victimizing middle aged housewives, or middle aged men becoming little boys again so they can have sex with older women. None of that is possible.
It’s a creepy kink, but nothing but drawn porn can come of it.

>>22013832
its a sexual security thing, you dont need to impress if its a big ole girl that wants to diddle YOU

>>22001624
You are gay and there's nothing you can say about it

>>21999391

If a boy starts having sex at that age, he can cum multiple times in a single session. Hormones are wild man

>>22019376
I've never been able to have several orgasms in succession, I always need to take a break between, I remember it being like this when I was a teenager too. Must be a genetic thing.

bump

Is /lit/ a shotafag board or a lolifag board? Idk if i see more lolita threads or gayreek threads

>>22021135
it's a small board so a single anon with a tendency can appear to be a multitude. I've seen /ss/ pics or comments in multiple threads after this one, but whenever a Nabokov discussion gets out of hand you'll see a lot of loli shit popping up.

>>21999391
bump

>>21999391
>THE TRANNIES ARE GROOMERS BRO THEY'RE COMING FOR YOUR CHILDREN!!
>ooohhhhh my god oh fuck yeah is that a little boy being molested I'm gonna COOOOOOOOOM

why are you freaks like this?

>inb4 i-it's just self-insert bro, I'm not actually a pedo...

>>22022933
The guilty always project and the powerless always choose easy targets

>>22005432
Not that anon and a little tangential to the discussion, but I recommend "The Other Greeks: The Family Farm and the Agrarian Roots of Western Civilization" by Victor Davis Hanson if you want to know more about the "average citizen " rather than the aristocracy that is so embedded in modern Western thought (albeit with good reason).

>>22022933
western civilization in general is full of groomers

and yet they use loli anime or muhammad and aisha's marriage as scapegoats

who gave them the right to dictate on human rights?

>>22002773
armchair psychologist projecting faggot, i'm just horny and none of what you said is true

>>22005900
>2 Bleach girls
>no Yoruichi or MILF Orihime
You disappoint me with that collage anon.

>>22005907
Are there anon doujins of Pride being dominated by Lust? For research purposes, of course.

bump

>>22022933
>molested
no such thing for males. At that age a lot of us already have lust and watched porn with women older than us, and we came.

>>22024771
yeah because porn/fapping and sex with an actual person are exactly the same thing

>>22024771
>Your honor, that boy was asking for it! He watched porn already!

>>21999416
>Imagine the fun I could soon have chaperoning one! Perhaps I’d even get to waltz with one or two of the more outgoing male students under the guise of fun and frivolity—the boys who would confidently grab my hand and lead me to the center of the floor, not realizing until our bodies were pressed that they could smell the pulsing, fragrant wetness just one layer of fabric away beneath my dress. I could subtly push against them, blow their circuitry with the confusion of blithe laughter and small talk funneled into their ear by my moist lips. Of course before I’d say it, I’d look off to the side with an idle stare that suggested nothing was happening, that I hadn’t noticed my pelvic bone ironing across the erect heat inside their rented tuxedo pants. It would require the boy to be an upstanding sort - the type who wouldn’t be able to convey such a sentence to his mother or father, who would second-guess and recall the moment only in the dark, liquored sleep of his loneliest adult moments: post–business dinner while traveling at some Midwestern Comfort Inn, after he’d called his wife and spoken to his children on the phone and then unwrapped the plastic skin of three or four airplane bottles of bourbon, set his alarm, and allowed himself to sit upright in bed with one hand squeezing against the growing thickness of his organ and the memory haunting him—had I really said what he thought he heard? Inside the school’s walls no less, amidst the thundering electronic notes of that year ’s favorite pop song, a song he’d listened to at his very first job in the mall as he folded display shirts and greeted mothers and children who entered the store—had I really breathed that sentence into his ear? But I felt it, he’d remind himself, felt my words form in warm air, one sentence whose breathy shape dissipated in seconds, prior to the arrival of understanding or memory. For the rest of his life, part of him would always be on that dance floor, unsure and hungry for clarity. So much so that as an adult in that hotel, he might likely be willing to give up a great deal in exchange for the sense of order that I’d stolen from him, or even to have someone to say to him, It did happen. And I would always know, and he would always be sure, but not certain, that I had drawn the ledge of my pubic bone against the head of his penis, pressed it there like a photograph beneath the plastic velum of an album page cover and whispered that phrase: "I want to smell you come in your pants."
Tampa is great.

>>22001628
yeah cuz they write in a way that makes my pp hard

>>22022933

Well I'm 30 and my almost 2 years gf is 46 now, I was a virgin before that, and we had so much sex it's incredible, so I kinda realized my ss fantasies I guess a little late but as I grew up pretty much isolated from real life and was mostly a recluse in uni till 28 I had close to no experience in life and liked to imagine that I'm with her in bed still as a young boy, and I mean her breasts are hentai worthy, but imagining being a young boy will cripple you fast emotionally so now it doesn't work like that anymore, I'm already an adult emotionally now in our relationship.

>>22017639
>isn't directly related to me
Is this because your mom isn't hot?

>>22022933
Boys cant get molested unless the woman is ugly. Think about it.

How many of you here are female pedophile

>>22024879
My peepee is leaking

>>22026361
2 tops, considering /lit/ has like 4 women in the broadest definition of women anyone could come up with.

>>22022933
>it's just self-insert bro
but that is it. The kid being there makes the woman hotter some how. please see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_PxRdIPCW0

>>22017578
Get yourself a Gilf gf

>>22026196
Are you planning on marriage and/or having kids?

>>22001624
Ok dude. Nobody cares.