/lit/ - Literature

>>22001130
Going to college for English to become a writer is probably hopeless, yes.

This is like saying that McDonalds will start killing michelin star restaurants.
You're probably a poorfaggot.

>>22001151
Eating at mc donalds for free will def. Kill michelin star restaurants.

>>22001130
It’s over…

i work in marketing, not the content creation part thankfully. but it's crazy how willing everyone is to use these fucking dull and stilted chatgpt texts 1:1. for most of those mindless drones it actually doesn't make a difference though, they cannot tell, it's all the same to them. i try to at least get them to verify the shit the ai says for so called hallucinations and to write their own sentences and just use the ai for ideas and summaries but it's a lost cause.

>>22001130
It’s over. professional writers are becoming plumbers.

Writing isn't a real job. You shouldn't rely on it for money. You fuck yourself over

>>22001393
> Writing isn't a real job
Well, nothing really is now lol but if it paid, it was a real job.

I love writing and ChatGPT is a miracle. It makes the job so much easier and can put the words in my head on paper a lot easier. The luddites who complain about it will be left in the dust, you are even admitting it yourself

>>22001130
Are you a bot?

Is /lit/ filled with bots at this point?

>>22001403
You’re not even seeing 1 year ahead. Today it’s your “writing buddie”, tomorrow you’ll fully replaced.

>>22001130
>be me
>nordic country
>extremely generous welfare gibs for the unemployed
>just have to send two (2) job applications a week
>start using ChatGPT to do it to reduce my weekly workload from 30 minutes to 300 seconds
>unironically start getting called for interviews, something that used to never happen
I HATE AI, KACZYNSKI WAS RIGHT, BUTLERIAN JIHAD NOW

>>22001423
god i wish i lived in scandanavia

>>22001423
lmao, HR should stand for Human Retardness

>>22001423
Socialist policies is where we’re headed. AI will fuck up the world.

>>22001130
I use ChatGPT quite a bit as it's a useful tool, but its long form writing is atrocious. Do people really just copy and paste from it?

>>22001471
>Do people really just copy and paste from it?
A huge portion of the population writes at a lower quality than whatever ChatGPT spills out, so no wonder they are content with this soulless crap.

But I agree it's a very useful tool, especially if you do any programming stuff. It can't write everything for you - just as it is in a case of longer articles and such, but it does help a lot with debugging and finding solutions you don't see yourself.

It's basically like a search engine 2.0, Google will be replaced unless their new AI will be of comparable quality.

>>22001483
Google Bard sucks. They have an AI that is comparable to ChatGPT but they won’t release it. imagine they are give the public a burger. Google Bard is the seeds on the bread.

AI's a game-theory nightmare. The jobs it replaces will be the ones that train the next generation of experts. It creates a decade-delayed tragedy of the commons, destroying both its own sources of future training data, and shrinking the pool of people who'd be able to step back in temporarily should anything go horribly wrong.

The process of learning a new skill reshapes how you look at the world around you. Learn music theory, and you start to notice new patterns in the music you hear. Explore synthesizers specifically, or chiptunes, or learn a string instrument, and you start to pick them out of a piece, try to figure out "ooh, that's a neat sound. How did they do it?". Practice art, and you pay more and more attention to the shapes, shadows, and colours around you, forming seeds of inspiration for your own creativity. Spend time writing, and you'll consciously pick up on clever phrasings and flow used by others that you'd only catch the vibe of otherwise.

Doing sharpens your perception, allowing you to experience more. Experiencing gives you new ideas and methods to try out, to experiment with and see what works for you. Experimenting creates and refines techniques that let you do better. A classroom can only go so far; education continues self-directed for the rest of your life. If AI plateaus at the equivalent of "University + 5 years' full-time work experience", and companies are unwilling to pay anyone less capable than the AI, how will the next generation acquire the experience that would have formed a central pillar of their future skill? It kicks off an era of cultural devolution, where the amount of new training material high-enough quality to make the AI better instead of worse tapers off, and the skill to create more is lost as the retired masters die of old age.

>>22001162
think that through a bit more

>>22001487
I've heard that there recently was a leaked document from Google about how they can't compete with open source models. Not sure if it's real or a fake flag operation meant to downplay, but sounds believable.

>>22001483
>It's basically like a search engine 2.0, Google will be replaced
Absolutely, and thank God. Google has become completely useless. It doesn't even index widely anymore - you'll never in a million years find obscure blogs with google anymore, even if you search direct quotes from them. Search results fizzle out after 5 pages, and start being just AI-generated SEO'd junk sites, and even these don't go beyond page 10.

All google does for specific questions is redirect you to reddit or quora. Even then, it has gotten so fucking retarded in trying to be friendly to people with 80 IQs, by acting like you don't know how to properly formulate your query, that it uses synonyms to the words you used - and the way it does this is completely deranged. For technical questions, it will take something like "outbound" to be synonymous with "inbound", when they are quite literally antonyms, all in hopes of buckshotting one correct answer from whatever retarded input Jamal or Raneesh or Cletus put into it.

Google got its monopoly because it was the best. However, it has been the worst search engine since 2014. They figured out that instead of giving you what you searched for, and tailoring ads to your interests, it was much easier to railroad your searches, make you interested in dumb shit you weren't interested in before (by railroading you towards it) and then giving you advertisements based on that literal reprogramming of your mind they had done. This means there is no need for unique ads for unique individuals. You just pummel them into shape, until they're part of whatever focus group you have a finished ad package for.

Google is quite literally the reason normies have become even more normie-like and vapid than usual for the past 10 years. Fucking criminal.

>>22001505
Google hasn't had to compete for 10 years. The king gets fat and weak and frail from succes and is then usurped by someone who actually had to overcome resistance. Tale as old as time.

>>22001491
Based chatgpt

>>22001526
Bait

>>22001505
That's because the people that train the AI, aka raters are paid dogshit. Therefore, dogshit results. Makes me question if they're seriously competing

>>22001207
I was never begun

>>22001162
Hmmm I think people will seek quality and excellence no matter the cost.
What we are seeing is the humdrum, pedestrian, talentless writers being replaced.

>>22001535
>people will seek quality and excellence no matter the cost
Then why do shitty products even exist? The demand for high cost, quality products is already low, and many people who up til now were willing to pay extra because bad writing was just so bad will choose cheap mediocrity over expensive quality.
Also, even if a small minority demanding quality remains if we lose the ability to produce quality. As someone already said, you need a lot of training to become an expert, and AI putting experts out of a job will create a feedback loop because with fewer experts around, who will train the new experts? With fewer and fewer experts remaining, the whole system becomes fragile, until just one proverbial plane crash could put us back decades if not centuries.

>>22001391
In that image they said working trades is hell on your body, imo that's the exact opposite of the truth. I'm in the best shape of my life since I've gotten into trade work, and until I'd gotten into this profession I'd never even known that older men like some of my coworkers (early 60s) could go as hard as they can. I'm talking about men who's hair have gone white swinging sledge hammers or shoveling dirt and rocks for a full work day then heading out to go hunting in the evenings.
Ya, I used to get back pain when I sat at a desk all day, the body is made for action not sitting.

>>22001391
This is is first time I’ve heard the term “future-proof”. I feel like in a sci-fi story. Scary shit.

>>22001391
This is the first time I’ve heard the term “future-proof”. I feel like in a sci-fi story. Scary shit

>>22001506
>Google has become completely useless.
>All google does for specific questions is redirect you to reddit or quora.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. As much as I loathe Reddit and especially its userbase, it became better than Google at finding you answers for specific questions. And Google correcting your input just feels like being seen as a complete retard for just stepping slightly out of the line.

>You just pummel them into shape, until they're part of whatever focus group you have a finished ad package for.
This doesn't just go for ads, have you ever tried using Google on somebody's else PC or other device? It's like a completely different version of reality. I ask something in English, but get in turn most of the results in Polish and huge portion of them doesn't even relate to what I asked. Infuriating.

>Google is quite literally the reason normies have become even more normie-like and vapid than usual for the past 10 years. Fucking criminal.
On the other hand models like ChatGPT might do the same thing in the near future. People will become more lazy and contrary to to what it's supposed to do - not more informed. Just as you may find loads of bullshit by looking through google, AI may hallucinate some stuff that a boomer Joe will believe in as absolute truth and then repeat that to everyone else. It will be even harder to find reliable information online and don't even get me started on the politically correct side of aligning these models. The way they speak and filter out information will have similar affects to what Google does to normies.

What, beyond generic copy pasted summaries, has sofa been replaced?
I'm not saying it won't happen, these things are improving, we will see what the future holds, but so far I've seen nothing except competent chat programs and basic novelty. Unless heavily edited by human being I can't imagine these things taking a popular writer's work.

>>22001151
The question is, can people tell the difference? People are more sensitive to dad ifood then they are to quality writing.
Most people 'know what they like' and are otherwise delighted by their ignorance.

I have the feeling one pallet is more sensitive than another.

>>22001626
What the fuck are you talking about, are you stoned or something?

>>22001553
They exist because there is a demand for it.
If the producer or manufacturer could still create the substandard product for $0 they would readily do so.
The shitty $0 product would exist but so would the premium $1000 product.
As for AI and replacing expertise, that’s nonsense. When AI innovates, invents and progresses as human creatives, experts do maybe there is an issue but presently the AI is just parroting would currently exists.
If your profession, livelihood or identity is based on being a regurgitator of knowledge you are begging to be replaced.

>>22001631
>When AI innovates, invents and progresses as human creatives, experts do maybe there is an issue but presently the AI is just parroting would currently exists. If your profession, livelihood or identity is based on being a regurgitator of knowledge you are begging to be replaced.
It's already hard enough to come up with something original, while inventing people also combine stuff they've learned throughout their life. It's not much different to what AI does, we just have many more variables in our heads.

Can you really imagine something you've NEVER seen? I highly doubt it, because even the most obscure and abstract shit is made up of small portions of something you already knew. For example, you can't imagine a new colour, no matter how hard you try.

>>22001506
Here's a taste of the future: https://metaphor.systems/

>>22001959
Impressive, very nice. Does it do its own web crawling? How does it find related websites?

>>22001130
why even bother learning math when self learning ai can do it faster
why graphic design when a machine can do it better
why code when a ai can do it better
why live

>>22001151
No it isn't, the market for fancy restaurants is much larger than the market for fancy books.

>>22001626
One one hand, most writing today is commercial writing. That will be completely replaced. There won’t be any demand at all for articles, content, copy, technical, and maybe not even journalism when AI can just crank them out for for little to no cost. Researched non-fiction is going to be largely changed, if not displaced, by AI because it will be an AI doing the researching and most of the writing. The “author” will be simply feeding prompts, which isn’t really writing. For fiction and poetry, the “author” will similarly feed it prompts and not really . A lot of people will stick to old ways, but there will be no way to tell what’s been written by a person and what’s been written by AI. The writer will be resigned to more of a prompter and editor in all cases. Writers have always had to edit their work, but replacing the act of writing with promoting is entirely new and will change it entirely.

Most likely, the internet is going to be so filled AI generated reading material that it’s all going to be practically worthless. Even techie people I work with have suddenly taken to writing poems in their work e-mails. I know them well enough to know they didn’t write it but promoted an AI. But it’s still impossible to tell by considering the poems themselves. If it’s that easy to for people are so not inclined for poetry, imagine how easy it will be for people who actually want to publish. Best case scenario, it doesn’t displace the writing, but it displaces the writer. You’re simply not doing the writing anymore. Everyday this world gets more and more meaningless, more and more dystopian, and if you really think this isn’t going to have an effect on writing, you’re naive. Anything that has been done at a computer screen can be automated and easily. It won’t be inspired, but then neither is what we have now.

>>22002077
It’s a valid question which I no longer have the answer to…

>>22001567
Which trade are you in?

>>22002077
Make your own AI that will complain about other AIs replacing it, so you literally won't have any reason to be.

I'd rather shoot myself than work a trade. My dad paid for my college so I wouldn't have to resort to trades like he did. I'm not settling for living in slavery like that. I'd rather just not exist.

>>22001506
>Google has become completely useless
Absolutely
It's impossible to find anything on there anymore

>>22002115
Install the fucking AC

>>22001130
I sometimes wonder how the techies and AI engineers not being drug out into the streets, but then I realize how even this post is shallow talk. The internet sucks up all energy, and all of the temporarily embarrassed millionaires expect that they’ll just get ahead of the curve and come out on top. The rest are too defeated to care or do anything or else too nihilistic. Always and everywhere, a humanistic education and involvement in letters has been the mark of an aristocracy. This one? Money. Just money. Nothing else. Possibly Ivy League degrees, especially law degrees. No art. No poems. I wish I could go back and warn myself as a teenager that thanks to elite (bourgeois) overproduction and technology/automation that a zeal for literature would be practically worthless, and that crafts and trades would be the way forward. I spent many years despondent and apathetic, trying to make my college degree work, my literacy and zeal for literature work, just being unmotivated to do anything. Maybe I would’ve found a way out earlier and made something of my life or at least felt a little better by now. I don’t feel so bad for the content creator, but it’s just another part of a radically depressing world.

>>22002115
Visual arts and crafts would be preferable to a trade. But the displaced writers won’t end up in trades. They’ll end up in more meaningless symbol analysis jobs, accounting, programming, soulless shit like that.

>>22002115
Not entering the trades is a big regret of mine honestly. I had a really tough time in college and graduated late with poor grades. I tried hard to make it work, but the only job I could get was at the college. As it turns out, academia is a bad career to be in if you were a bad student.

>>22002136
this shit had me giggling for 10 minutes, thanks anon

AI fear mongering dweebs are the biggest retards in existence. I have more respect for grown men who watch tranime than these retards who cry that their genreslop is made even more shit by AIslop

>>22002007
I think it's gpt-3 fine-tuned on a corpus of web links.

>>22002151
>They’ll end up in more meaningless symbol analysis jobs, accounting, programming,
um anon I hate to tell you this but...

>>22001403
>can put the words in my head on paper a lot easier
Spoken like someone who will never write anything worth reading.

>>22001660
>Can you really imagine something you've NEVER seen?
yes, I can imagine a vagina

>>22002327
But what?

>>22002353
>symbol analysis jobs, accounting, programming,
>safe from ai
are you still not connecting the dots?

wtf is he talking about?
chatgpt cannot write a novel worth a shit
admittedly, majority of modern writers cannot either, it's all about who's the fattest woman or darkest nigger

>>22001130
>Why even bother going to college and getting a bachelor in English to become a famous novelist
Chat GPT won't replace famous novelists but your chances of becoming one are extremely low as is. You'll probably end up like your fellow redditor.

>>22001130
>>22001391
Someone better warn this guy that to become a licensed and bonded plumber requires a 7 year apprenticeship, no matter how much practical knowledge and experience you already have.
Without it, you're restricted to low-level handyman jobs.

>>22002371
He said his dad is, or was a plumber, this is probably the most important thing about becoming one.
If it were the case that he is some copy writer with weak hands without any connections to the trade of plumbing then you'd be right, plumbing is out of the question for something like that.

>>22002360
You’re right. What I mean was that they’re safer than content writing, at least for a time. Ultimately, they’re not safe at all.

>>22002390
anything dealing with wrote symbol or language analysis is going to be BTFO'd, especially the ones which have the most favorable cost-cutting implications.
The machines can analyze human language now quite well, and this itself is the key to human intelligence in large measure.

>>22002408
no Ai is jsut a fancy autocomplete and nothing else

learn to code

>>22002151
>Always and everywhere, a humanistic education and involvement in letters has been the mark of an aristocracy. This one? Money. Just money. Nothing else.
The revival of the greek academia by the humanist bourgeoisie and opened to the peasant is a theatrical play to get the peasants to side with the bourgeois during their revolution.

>>22002421
>nothing else
still coping I see.

>>22002429
It doesn’t matter. That disappeared entirely before the 20th century. Prior to that, misguided and democratized or no, education was about the cultivation of the human as person. Now, it’s about cultivation of the human person as technical server of systems or as wage earner.

>>22002077
>Why even bother learning to use a handsaw when a chainsaw does it better
If you lose yourself to a tool instead of using it to its full potential of enhancing the human experience you are a weak minded fool

>>22002408
Ultimately, yes but it will be after the displacement of writers and illustrators and workers like that.

>>22002452
But if you were a logger for a living, you would have no choice but to use the chainsaw in order to survive.

The replacement of writers by AI bothers me, but I know that I'll be safe simply by reading anything written prior to AI. What bothers me more, though, is how online communication will probably become dominated by AI bots. You can see them on 4chan sometimes now, and it's normally possible to tell when it's a bot, but in the future that won't be the case. You could sit here for hours speaking to different "anons" thinking it's a real person on the other end, but it isn't. I think AI will be the end of any sort of online forums like 4chan (also Reddit (good riddance)).

>>22002473
I agree. Hopefully, it makes the internet unusable but most likely it we will just waste our lives chatting with bots.

>>22002476
>Hopefully, it makes the internet unusable
The only positive outcome is if this happens, the current internet is ruined irreparably, and some sort of smaller, new form of the internet is able to be created, with sufficient protections from AI bots.

>>22002421
>>22002440
NTA, but try GPT 4 or Claude. Fancy autocomplete is right.

>>22001423
Wait...are you saying that, when ChatGPT writes your job applications, you get called for interviews?
Because that would be...awesome. I'll have to try it!

>>22002486
The internet should just go away. We only use it because we are hopelessly addicted. Deep down, we all know that it’s been a disaster for human life and flourishing. This is known now by even those who didn’t live through the optimism turned pessimism of the 90s-00s.

>>22001491
Keep in mind that this has already happened to several industries, not from AI, but from outsourcing.
It blows my mind that American managers can't see that third-world computer programmers are hideously incompetent; all hiring managers care about is that they're cheaper.
It's been an incredible effort ever since this started (mostly coinciding with the dot-com bubble burst) to stay employed. I have to find companies whose model of software development isn't writing a whole lot of shitty code in a big big hurry. Luckily there are many such companies, but I had to become a migrant worker to stay employed.
But guess what? No one cared when this happened to American computer programmers. No one cares about us nerds. And now it's happening to you, but it's AI replacing you, not third-world cretins.
"Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me."
Complacency ruins lives. Welcome to my world.

>>22001130
If chatgpt dissuades you from writing you were never going to write anyway

I think a lot more humans will start to feel hopeless and useless as AI becomes more powerful. Whether or not it’s realistic, we seem to be heading towards the future in which AI completely replaces us and we no longer exist. Obviously we don’t want that to happen, so how can we use it while also being valuable ourselves? Intelligence is the whole reason humans are beyond the other species, but AGI is much more intelligent than humans. The only way forward is to modify our intelligence, either through genetic engineering, or some sort of neural link system that incorporates AI into our brains. But while we’re using genetic engineering, we may as well make ourselves perfect in every other way. Extremely life-affirming, beautiful, physically fit, energetic, etc. Pretty soon our goal will become to ensure the existence of the species even if the earth is destroyed, by colonizing other planets and solar systems. We may have to send ships with AI “parents” that, once they reach the distant planets, will begin cultivating the planet and activating the preserved human embryos, raising them and forming human societies.

>>22001130
I’m a software engineer. I just graduated and AI is already taking my job thanks to other software engineers. Fuck.

>>22002077
>why live
For the vast majority of people out there...you're absolutely right.
We have "gone forth and multiplied" beyond any rational constraints.
And so, SO many people are lazy and complacent, and have never done anything to distinguish themselves.
Unless something useful can be found for these people to do (like colonizing other planets), we may be looking at a necessary and deliberate campaign of mass extermination.
Fortunately, hydrothermal liquefaction can convert human carcasses into carbon-free crude oil.
The Bible tried to warn us that sloth was a deadly sin. Now we have billions and billions of lazy, complacent people, right on the cusp of their dystopian future.

>>22001130
i read it as he lost all his mental content worth putting down in print by way of a career writing contracts

>>22002422
lol coders will get replaced too

Hear me out, humans don't want to read something written by AI, nor would they want an assisted imagination. Well, not exactly, but they crave insight; since primordial times, we have sought idols, idolatry, and worship. Some of readers seek idols in authors to feel their excellence and genius. For example, when I read, I know that the author wasted a lot of their energy choosing words that fit their contexts; I understand that every letter is intentional. So the patterns and subtext in which they are selected are interesting. With AI, it's always a chance; the tokens that came out depend on the past, not the future; of course, you can argue that ai can outline and write and foreshadow according to those outlines, but I think and know that it is based on empirical evidence, the AI can't come up with its novel ideas and blow the readers mind with its genius and life-changing vision.

>>22002366
Pulp writers will be completely displaced by generative AI.
Nora Roberts and Stephen King are fortunate because they've already made their money, but they'll be the last of a dying breed.

>>22002408
True. All mental shit is getting replaced. We thought manual jobs were going to disappear first but no, it’s mental jobs

>>22002571
And so, where do humans come in? We became the idea machine, leading the AIs to stumble into our goldmine. So here is the solution to every problem caused by AI. Artists will become curators.

>>22001151
What a shit analogy. Everybody has to eat, but not everybody has to read.

>>22002476
>we will just waste our lives chatting with bots
Just like you're wasting your life jacking off to porno, instead of interacting with real women.
Wake up; it's later than you think.

>>22002557
If that's true, then you weren't a very good programmer to begin with.
Are you capable of learning how to create/program AI?

>>22002562
It’s over. I thought the end of the world would happen in like the 2100s, not in my lifetime. I feel intensely ANXIOUS. Even if I manage to write a masterpiece there will always be the question, “But did you really write it, Anon? You haven’t published anything prior…”

>>22002583
I never disagreed. The great majority of our working and leisure lives are spent on a screen. I’m no exception. I’ve long felt that computers and software destroyed human life. Have you ever read a late millennial’s biography?

>>22002562
What is it exactly you suppose these people were supposed to distinguish themselves in? The large majority of people pursued working life and education for working life, just like they thought they were supposed to. It’s never been any different. That they ended up in meaningless work and wasted lives is not entirely their fault.

>>22002571
Readers don’t want to read AI generated words just like they don’t want to jack off to AI generated porn. That is to say, they do want to.

>>22002586
I’m capable of learning, yes. Am I capable of learning as well and fast as required, though? It feels like learning how to dress to attend a party while everyone is already at the party. AI is a brakeless train. I do have some ideas for AI shit, on the other hand. So, it seems like I’m meant to do this.

>>22001403
Can you even tie your shoelaces?

>>22002605
That's a false equivalence, they might want to read AI generated smut, but SD isn't good enough for art. How long have you stared at an ai generated paintings compared to say Ivan the Terrible and His Son? or maybe The Death of Marrat?

>>22002603
They could have distinguished themselves in any subject in which they had interest, talent, and education.
My point is that so many of them didn't even try, content to sit on their dead ass and watch TV or browse social media or whatever.
It wasn't lack of opportunity that destroyed them, it was their own laziness and complacency.
And now the bill is due, and they can't pay the invoice.

>>22002151
> Always and everywhere, a humanistic education and involvement in letters has been the mark of an aristocracy.
Do you have a source on this?

>>22002605
As soon as the uncanny valley gap closes, they will jerk off to AI porn.

>>22002608
I've been in the industry for over 30 years, and it became obvious immediately that the primary skill in computer programming is being able to assimilate new information quickly & do something useful with it. Everything else runs a distant second.
No matter how much you try to prepare, every time you take a new job, there's one subject on which you'll have to become an expert quickly, one you can't prepare for...the company's existing body of source code.
If you can't come up to speed on that quickly, you'll forever be useless.
College didn't acknowledge that when I was still in school, but fortunately, I was already a master hacker before I entered college, so I had long since filled that gap in my education.
Hopefully you were already an information sponge.

>>22002605
If you don't think Stable Diffusion is good enough to generate jackable porn, you simply haven't been keeping up with the "AI degenerated art & porn" threads on >>>/b/ .
I found out quickly that Stable Diffusion, running locally on my own computer without any need to access the Internet, could generate endless variations of my exact fetishes.
It did so well, I actually managed to scratch my itch, and I mostly lost interest in autoerotica, and "the urge" tapered off and mostly vanished. Never saw that coming.

>>22002605
>>22002614
It's soul; people can deny it all they want, but readers, though most unaware and uncaring, can detect if something has a soul or is soulless. It's something you see and understands deep within yourself that someone puts a lot of time and meaning into something. When you look at their choice of stroke, colors, or words, understand that it overflows from the artist's depths. ART will never be replaced by automatic generation. PORN will. (As I said, I interacted a lot with AI and, of course, have run stable difussion with many loras, and sure enough, it is as good as the actual illustrators. I have also interacted with GPT 4 and also local models, and my first point about them being unable to come up with ideas and themes to convey stands for what I think forever)

Nick Land was right about everything lmao it's over for mankind, we had a decent run

>>22002661

>>22002661
Art already has been replaced. We don’t even make it anymore. We don’t look at the world and our lives in it in a way that is conducive to making art. What we make are commercial products we insist are art.

>>22002621
I can give you secondary sources: Irving Babbit and Josef Pieper.

>>22002614
People in general don’t stare at paintings of Ivan the Terrible and His Son at all. People have no interest in these things anymore and there’s certainly no market for them.

>>22002734
It's bullshit though. Two and only two things are associated with aristocracy: owning large amounts of private property and having influence in the politics of the country. That the aristocrats go to school, is also bullshit. What was considered well-educated in the 18th Century was being home-schooled by a plethora of home-teachers. College education was and is considered bad and low-quality, for plebs. The only ones who perpetrate the myth that colleges do a good job in educating their students are the colleges themselves.

>>22002739
> there’s certainly no market for them.
lol wrong
Go outside the web, kid. Collectors buy them for lots of money.

This is where progress for its own sake has led us. People don't even try to pretend to know why we pursue technological advancement. They just wave it off as the natural progression of things, "we can so we must", "it will solve mankind's problems", etc. Same reasoning for space travel really, there's nothing out there but some crazed materialists are hellbent on going for some reason.

Few realize that we are manufacturing our own obsolescence. Maybe this is real great filter after all, the one obstacle that no civilization in the universe can overcome : the irresistible yearning for self-annihilation.

>>22002562
I feel called out. I wasted my life.

>>22002752
And use them as tokens to launder money. Contemporary fine art is social game and most often is indistinguishable from bad commercial art.

>>22002761
The high-tech dystopia/utopia is a phantasy. Most likely, humans will return to primitive savagery.

>>22002789
Doesn’t matter. There IS a market for them.

>>22002751
Nobody said aristocrats went to school. I said they were educated. An aristocratic education involved the classics. They were taught the liberal arts. This remained the case through the early 19th century despite the fact that it was now universities education and educating more than just aristocrats. The basis of education was first and foremost humanistic. In the latter 19th century, there was a lot of debate over whether Latin and Greek should still be taught, if the classics should be taught, if the focus should shift from humanities to more technical education on things like economics, physics, and so-called “social sciences”. The progressive era of politics in the late 19th era marked the start of the transition of education as striving for a largely humanistic education to a largely technical education for serving a modern economy. Alexis de Tocqueville also commented that while the loss of aristocracy was a tragedy, aristocracy could be emulated first and foremost by studying the classics.

>>22002761
I don't think it's THAT dire, but I do agree that there is a staunch endless-"progress" ideology that never questions itself. Zappfe called it "spiritually developed" people, where goal-seeking is the primary motive, i.e. once one thing is met, it shifts to the next thing; a means to an endless end. I would add that it's also imbued with death anxiety, as constantly "progressing" gives some kind of meaning to the individual and that since it's endless, they, too, are endless. Of course, progressing from living to dead isn't something they'd seek, oddly enough.

>>22002793
Okay let me know how your foray into fine art goes and when you see another NFT sell for a million try not to kill yourself.

>>22002814
>NTF
Failed meme. It’s not 2020 anymore.

>>22002761
>>22002810
We always attribute progress to human endeavors, but what if it’s not attributable to human endeavors? What if the genie was let out of the bottle and humans are just being dragged a long, some more willingly or zealously than others?

>>22002790
What we’re really living through sure feels like a dystopia to me sometimes. At those moments, it doesn’t seem all that much like a fantasy.

>>22002493
>Fancy autocomplete is right.
now explain how for the vast majority of living people, that they are not themselves fancy versions of auto-complete.
Walk up to a random person on the street and ask them a question which requires an opinion or evaluation of a moderately complex problem and you will receive a fancy auto-complete response.
The vast majority of people simply repeat ideas that they have already heard and agree with.

>>22002817
More of a failed meme than your non-existent fine art?

>>22002718
We are only meant to give birth to a higher form of Reason and retreat as any intermediate step, just as the first primates hitting stones against nuts would never get to experience Shakespeare and higher math and whatever. And the future doesn't even necessarily belong to machines, just some posthuman beings who cannot relate to what humanity and life means to us.

>>22002828
Why? There’s no reason for the drive to create some machine that will replace us. It’s a demonic, or best unnatural, impulse.

>>22002718
Nick land is a faggot and only troons read him

>>22002836
There is nothing "natural" about human cultural endeavors, and those machines will be created, no matter how much you try to hold back the hand of the clock it will still get to the same point.
Not that I'm celebrating it, mind you, I've been depressed about where technology is taking us since I noticed in my late teens that everybody (incl me) is addicted to screens.
But even if some proportion of humanity would actually try to resist it, in the future they would at best be kept in reservations by those who WOULD use it for and thus have an immeasurable advantage.

>>22001130
What a load of horseshit. I have no doubt AI will replace small writers one day but at its current state ChatGPT is garbage at creative writing. It has no understanding subtlety or nuance or foreshadowing or anything beyond the actual words on the page. You give it a prompt and it will take it literally to the point it will try to integrate the words used in the prompt in the writing. It's not even that great as a writing assistant beyond research or using it as a thesaurus or a basic editor. Even if you do get the hang of it you still have to invest a quite a lot of time to get a decent product in the end. His writing must have truly sucked for him to get replaced so soon.

>>22002878
It's actually a great example of the prisoner's dilemma. All corporations are prisoners and using AI is defection. In that state, unless all corpos choose to cooperate (not use AI) even a single defection means everyone must defect to remain competitive. Thus, everyone will defect.

>>22002878
> There is nothing "natural" about human cultural endeavors
Completely untrue. Self-expression is something all animals do. Humans just happen to be the best.

>>22002898
I did not mean it's somehow supernatural, the post I replied to used it in a moral, "ought to be this way" sense

>>22002824
The difference is that our dataset constantly grows along with our context. Of course, this will be solved when they perfect long-term memory and subconscious thoughts layer. But realistically? no, it is just too expensive to run.

>>22002878
They are literally the most natural things in the world. Your ridiculous statement really just goes to show how far gone into scientific nonsense and tech nihilism you are. You think natural is either living like apes or living like tech bros.

>>22002828
There's an argument to be made for anti-humanism for sure, I just have a very bad feeling about this, something in my gut that tells me "it's the civilizational death drive, maybe it doesn't have to be like this". Maybe it does have to be like this, and we are but a puny stepping stone, an echo in an echoless universe. Who knows. It's hard to admit that we aren't special.
>>22002851
Well maybe. But he's right about everything regardless.

>>22002915
So what if it’s a moral judgement as well as recognition that it’s unnatural?

>>22002805
They learned the classics because there was only classics to be learned. Go inside a European library from the 17th Century and the only things you could find was Greek literature and theologic texts. That didn't change until the 18th Century when more literature became avaible. You wouldn't get it.

>>22002897
But you also have to consider the increasingly complexity and inadequacy of humans to maintain them introduced a problem of cascading failure. Imagine a world where all of modernity is run by AI and something happens to AI. Nobody would know how to fix things let alone fix it. At the end of the day, technological innovation is the result of a certain way of being in the world. If we turn away from that version of being and open up to another one, technological innovation just fades out into the background.

>>22002936
Even if it were true, it wouldn’t change the fact that there was a deliberate and conscious shift in educational doctrine and the humanities abandoned in the 19th century. Just ask yourself the question. When you think of education, you think of formal education don’t you? And when you think of formal education you think of something that is just the piling up of facts so you can make money. Education in the Middle Ages and even during the Enlightenment was not merely this notion of education and not even merely formal education

>>22002946
There will always be pockets of society filled with individuals that reject that way of being (e.g consider Buddhist monks). But they'll pockets, nothing more. Addiction is when we have enough control over our environment to hijack our reward systems to the extent that we lose control over ourselves. AI is merely the purest and final manifestation of that.

"AI" are just vomit machines that can puke out throw up that's a mush of what prompts we fed it in the first place. Sewer rats are more intelligent. The problem is normies these days like vomit, they like the same stuff mushed up and served to them on a plate over and over again. I could take a shit on a canvas and tell people that it's AI and they'd applaud because they are so brainwashed and wow'd by anything "advanced" and "hi tech." They'll rush to replace low level experts with bots and one day lots of people will die because of a bridge collapsed, the safety calculations were done by "AI." But when it comes to the humanities, art, poetry, literature, there will be no restrictions. When Stephen King kicks the bucket, they'll just get a chatbot to churn out new Stephen King novels and normies will eat that shit up. Normalfags are already people who adore sameness, look at how successful the Star Wars prequels were at the box office despite the storyline being a AI-worthy regurgitation of characters and narrative themes from the original movies. They are so neurotically obsessed with sameness, any tiny difference causes them to freak out. In the future, culture will become even more static than it already is. Everything will be squashed into a two dimensional sameness. There are legitimate uses stuff like ChatGPT, the danger is the insane amount of faith illiterate normalfags put in it.

>>22002723
So awesome. Saved!

>>22002934
Then it's a basic category error. Say it's evil by all means but natural/unnatural does not make sense as a moral category.
All ideas and technologies are both natural (within the laws of nature) and unnatural because they are consciously created and don't simply spring up outside (unless you would deny any distinction between nature and culture, but then calling things unnatural would make even less sense)

>>22002661
Just because generative AI has that limitation now, doesn't mean it always will.
The current state of generative AI was unimaginable only just a year ago.
I've been involved with generative AI for quite some time, and even I was blown away by Stable Diffusion and ChatGPT 3.
You're whistling past the graveyard.

Let me give you a simple example.
Consider a system where generative AI is querying human beings (who are paid to do this, i.e. it's their job) for the elements of writing that it's not able to come up with itself.
Once a human gives it an idea (or several humans give it ideas, and the AI, or whoever is running the AI, picks the best one).
This melds AI's productivity with humanity's talent for improvisation.
And that's just the first version, i.e. that could be done with the current state of generative AI.
Imagine what comes after the AI has learned all it can from humans.
The world is about to become a very different place, and you're stupidly in denial.

>>22002730
This.
The vast majority of people out there don't consume art; they consume commercial entertainment products.
They care not for art. They just want to relax and unwind.

>>22002752
These "collectors" you speak of are a tiny, tiny fraction of the population.
One cannot base a viable career out of satisfying the desires of a minuscule number of "collectors".

>>22002966
Honestly I think you've misunderstood AI on an ontological level. What AI produces is context-dependent content generation. Essentially, the very same thing a human brain does, albeit in silico instead of in vivo. You feel special because you're confident in your ability to generate highly original thoughts and artwork based on context and prior experience, which is what supposedly makes you human. What you need to understand is that there is absolutely no limit that AI cannot exceed in that regard, in other words given enough training and sophistication, it will be able to do everything you can and then some.

Your humanity WILL be erased given enough data. I know it's a tough pill to swallow, but we're in the bad timeline and everyone is going to have to hold on very tight to their seats. Liftoff is imminent.

>>22002980
What made me deny this future is my disillusionment with local model development.

>>22002777
The difference is, you have the option of waking up.
Today is the first day of the rest of your life.
It'll be hard work digging yourself out of the hole you dug yourself into, but really, you're just paying off a debt that you've been accumulating all your life.
Your only choice (other than succumbing to it) is to get to work.
After all, you've tried everything else, haven't you?

>>22002790
They already HAVE reverted to primitive savagery.
Have you seen inner-city Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, Minneapolis, New York, etc.?

>>22002958
> Even if it were true, it wouldn’t change the fact that there was a deliberate and conscious shift in educational doctrine and the humanities abandoned in the 19th century
Education got better. There was more things to be studied, more than the plain old stories about Greek gods and Greek heroes, and a myriad texts about the Bible. It got boring, I've had the Greeks in school, it's always the same plot.
> When you think of education, you think of formal education don’t you? And when you think of formal education you think of something that is just the piling up of facts so you can make money.
That is what colleges have done to education, the educational institution of bourgeoise people. The burgeoisie isn't new though in Europe, they have been there since the beginning of the Middle Ages. They changed education however to their worldview of materialism and money-making, for better or for worse, when they usurped the power in the 18th and 19th Century. But many European countries still follow the old tradition that school isn't to teach how to make money but that it should be about plain theory. From there comes the distinction between technical college and educational college, and the latter is considered to be preferable to the former until this day.

>>22002995
I suspect there’s a certain age where once you cross it, you simply can’t get where you would’ve gone how you started that first day earlier. You don’t ever really get to start from scratch in life.

>>22002817
Donald Trump sold a bunch of NFTs as recently as April 19th. Not even 2 months ago.
NFTs are most certainly not over.
Where do you get your information? Are you really this uninformed?

>>22002836
It's not unnatural...progress is the primary experience of the human race.
Also, remember that these AIs are being developed by nerds that got picked on horribly in school.
We didn't forget. And we are highly motivated to seek our revenge.
Sure hope you enjoyed humiliating me repeatedly.
Revenge is a dish best served cold.

>>22003005
it's about the journey :)

>>22002933
>I just have a very bad feeling about this, something in my gut that tells me "it's the civilizational death drive, maybe it doesn't have to be like this"
For sure. It's a very melancholy view. Maybe there will be some renaissance of the human, but right now i only see loss of significance of everything we as a species used to cherish. Maybe this loss is even a requirement for some new vision, and we will rise to some new level of being. But I guess that will be for future generations, and we might feel like illiterate peasant parents who raised an academically brilliant child, from whom they grow apart because they have less and less to talk about.

>>22003003
My argument is that it hasn’t gotten better because education shifted from cultivation of the human person to accumulation of facts and knowledge. The bourgeoisie institutionalized and democratized education and then turned it into a social game and competition for degrees and professions, but the change of education to a technical sort of accumulation really came with the rise of industry and the progressive era. You can blame the bourgeoisie for that too if you want I guess, but it doesn’t change the facts regardless. To say that school is about plain theory is to demonstrate that school, in the modern mind, is about the mere accumulation of facts. For the medievals and ancients, education was not about a series of right or wrong answers or a collection of knowledge. To understand philosophy and to be able to philosophize or to be able to view the world in a poetic way and write poetry are different things that knowing a series of philosophers, their claims, poets, and their most famous poems.

>>22003015
But not all journeys are desirable.

>>22002995
>After all, you've tried everything else, haven't you?
NTA, thanks, anon. I think I might quit my unfulfilling job and, with my leftover money, travel to the other side of my country, see the people, and meet others, and when I reach the end of the line, I might kill myself or find an answer to the question I don't know.

>>22003009
The average schmuck isn’t a celebrity.

>>22003009
the only reason anyone is selling nfts in 2023 is because there are still enough marks around to fleece, but outside of that increasingly shrinking segment of the population nobody gives a fuck about them.

>>22003015
I do agree that education became too materialistic, that's why I never went to college and dropped out of High School as a protest against modern education.

>>22003016
I think eventually people are going to have to figure out ways to return to the land, to agriculturally based ways of life, to art, poetry, and basically shun the machine entirely. It’s just impossible to imagine that happening in our current lives. I worry a lot that I’ve been born at the worst time to be alive, to have been born with a terrible destiny, or worse, no destiny at all. I’m very depressed if I’m being perfectly honest. I find myself envying figures even like Mark Fisher and DFW if for no other reason that accomplishing something while they were young and alive.

>>22002995
Maybe you’re right. But it just seems like AI is cornering us. Perhaps I should log off.

>>22003025
I’ve been trying to do this for a while but AirBnBs are so expensive. They actually removed the option of looking for your own space and not just a room in a shared space because it was simply too expensive.

why is the literature board full of people so openly hostile to writers and even writing

>>22003029
Admitting that there are enough marks to fleece is an affirmation of the very argument you were arguing against.

>>22003042
We’re not hostile, just realistic.

>>22002878
>everybody (incl me) is addicted to screens
More of the nerds' revenge.
We used technology to sell you rumination and insecurity.
Sure hope you had lots of fun tormenting us in school.
>>22002887
Did you even read the OP image?
It's not that his writing sucked...his customers acknowledge it's better than generative AI...but generative AI costs his customers nearly nothing, and they can touch it up themselves.

>>22002915
Unless you're willing to expend all the effort it takes to accomplish a world that you believe "ought" to be...you're just being arrogant.
The world is what it is. You can either accept it, and try to incorporate it into whatever you want to accomplish, or you can be overwhelmed by it.

>>22002985
However, there is a market, unlike what that faggot said.

>>22003044
no it's not. nft trading volume collapsed in 2022. nfts are most definitely over for everyone except the insignificant number of braindead holdouts who jump on every new crypto drop hoping and coping that things will turn around soon.

>>22002933
>It's hard to admit that we aren't special.
You're not special. Never were.
Being truly "special" takes effort that you never expended, what with you sitting on your dead ass, being lazy and complacent.
Don't be surprised that life is passing you by. By your actions, you deliberately chose that fate.
Given how many useless people there are like you...the most likely outcome is mass extermination. Hydrothermal liquefaction can convert useless people into carbon-free crude oil.
Unless space travel advances quickly & hordes of useless people can be sent to other planets to colonize them.

>>22003061
That a market exists at all undermines your original argument.

>>22003065
Space colonization is an impossible dream. From where I’m sitting, the degree of innovation you’d need in such a short amount of time is not achievable. We’d need to have people farming on Mars before 2100. That’s just not going to happen.

>>22003067
Not really. It means it’s a failed meme that serves mostly as a gimmick every once in a while. The argument was never that it didn’t exist in any capacity.

>>22003046
>Sure hope you had lots of fun tormenting us in school.
I didn't, if anything I was a nerd myself and grew out of it (thanks to literature mostly) but by now I understand that what you speak of is an enormous factor in this whole mess, the anti-human, anti-social tech nerds almost crying tears of joy about "what a time to be alive" it is, now that a program can draw, write poetry, make music... replace all need for human contact and exposure, that is

>>22003065
It is hard not to be lazy when it seems like there’s nothing worth working hard for. Sure, you can get rich or you can contribute to social progressivism or scientistic fantasies. But otherwise a young westerners only alternative is to simply get by. Even in the realms of art and literature, it seems there’s nothing to be done. And we were all discouraged from being so idealistic since birth anyway.

>>22003020
I don't disagree with anything you say, what I'm saying is that the reason for the things you are criticizing are largely caused by how modern education is, the meta-education it brings with it so to speak. Sitting on a bench for hours, listening to a teacher, being with the classmates, constant breaks - all that stuff is terrible and I don't know who designed it but it sucks and I no longer participate in it.

>>22003074
Sure, it does. It literally exists as a market alternative to human made fine art, which was the whole point being debated. And frankly, even that doesn’t matter because who just wants a world where fine art is merely a token to exchange wealth? Nobody. That’s almost as soulless as the same but AI made.

>>22003067
are you retarded or what?
>>22003086
>It literally exists as a market alternative to human made fine art
lol

>>22003075
AI incels were just butthurt that an artist Chad stole their oneitis in college. Notice how they came first for art and writing? Very interesting.

>>22003083
Yeah I agree. I don’t know it would be better if it just disappeared though. Young people are a bit like plants. They need to be cultivated and tended to. You can’t just toss seeds in shitty soil and ignore them, then expect them to grow big and beautiful. I don’t see a solution though. How do we just reinvent education as something for the cultivation of the individual. Obviously, some aristocrats of the past hired private tutors for it because it was dignified to do so, but the aristocracy is gone and let’s be honest, most of them did it because it boosted their opportunities and not because it was dignified. That’s just not how it is today. Today, it’s tech skills and the right credentials that boost your opportunities. Or maybe I’m naive because I wasn’t born into the senatorial class. A lot of the rich kids do seem to still be pursuing art and literature degrees at Ivies.

>>22003005
That's just self-defeating talk.
Have you TRIED to change your life, or do you just sit on your dead ass and ruminate?
If you want to change your life, you're going to have to do something you haven't tried before...such as, MAKE AN EFFORT.
>>22003020
THIS. Thank you!
Education isn't a mere accumulation of facts.
You have to internalize those facts, and practice applying them, so that they become knowledge.
The true barrier to achieving this, I remain convinced, is complacency, conformity, and laziness.
I'm so glad I didn't rely on school to educate me. I have my degree and everything, but I'm largely self-taught, and that's a neverending journey; I never stop learning.
>>22003025
If you've got nothing to lose, go for it.
You may find you never wanted to kys after all.
And that realization will make everything else worth it.
>>22003040
You may want to consider a cheaper alternative to AirBNB.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostelling_International_USA
>>22003030
How's that working out for you?
>>22003053
You're crowing about a minuscule market. It's a distinction without a difference.

>>22003046
>.but generative AI costs his customers nearly nothing
It costs quite a lot of time actually. The AI never writes exactly what you want. It requires quit a lot of trial and error. His writing must have been truly horrible or customers are shit eaters for them to consider it a valuable trade off.

>>22003106
> You're crowing about a minuscule market. It's a distinction without a difference
Minuscule? In population, maybe. Not in value.

>>22003106
Leisure is the basis of culture. Ideally, it shouldn’t take human beings a monumental effort to do something worthwhile with their lives. It should come almost naturally. And to simply insist that they should “make an effort” if they want to change their lives goes without saying but that alone isn’t enough. The point being argued was that certain outcomes are excluded as consequence of timing rather than effort. The 34 year old NEET will never be the President of the United States, no matter how hard he tries from here on out.

>>22003071
And that's why you're here, ruminating on 4chan, and not working with Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos to turn such a dream into reality.
t. aerospace R&D scientist (though not directly involved with space travel)
>>22003075
It's not so much replacing the need for human contact, so much as afflicting the sort of humans that made our lives a living hell.
>>22003076
Or maybe you're just depressed and conformist.
I certainly don't feel the way you do, despite having gone through some very tough times, and my life still being quite far from what I want it to be.

>>22003118
How much of that high-value art being traded was newly-created art?
I believe the answer to that question defeats your argument.

/lit/ - AI General

>>22003119
>ideally
>shouldn't
I like to dream too, but I don't get hung up on it.
>"making an effort" isn't enough
Of course it's not sufficient, but it's necessary.
And far too many people I've encountered (especially in this thread) haven't even made an effort, yet they wonder why their lives aren't what they want them to be.

>>22003129
Given the effect that AI is having on writing, and visual arts, at the moment...it's perfectly understandable and natural.

>>22003098
> Yeah I agree. I don’t know it would be better if it just disappeared though. Young people are a bit like plants. They need to be cultivated and tended to.
No. Young people have everything they need, the seeds are already planted but it's because of the education system that they grow poorly or not at all. The seed for self-learning, the fabulous creation of nature however is completely extinguished and exterminated by the school system that teaches that nothing can be learned by oneself alone. I know a lot of well-educated people who never went to school. They have an own opinion on things and a tender character that never experienced diminishment or destruction by people telling them that they are doing something wrong, because they aren't doing it the way it was taught to them, in a word, they are more original.
> How do we just reinvent education as something for the cultivation of the individual.
The problem are parents who don't want to spend time with their chilldren. It is very practical to toss them into school and expect that "at least they will learn something there", and that will never change, but for the individuals who want actually educated people, the only solution is 20 years of home-schooling.

>>22003127
What is my “argument” according to you? All I’m saying is that there is a market, whether it’s old art or contemporary art.
Quoting >>22002739
> there’s certainly no market for them
Wrong.

>>22003124
If I don’t share the dream of Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk, I’d be a fool to work hard for their dream.

I love how a new AI comes out every few years and zoomers shit their pants over it

>>22003124
>It's not so much replacing the need for human contact, so much as afflicting the sort of humans that made our lives a living hell.
Well I sure hope that won't lead to a sudden chimpout against 6 million software engineers

>>22003124
I’m definitely depressed, but I don’t think I’m conformist. I don’t think going through times has anything to do with it. You’re condemning people for not working harder, but for hard work to be worthwhile there should be something worthwhile to work hard on, and there’s no reason they should necessarily accept like space futurism or money making as that thing and it might not even be in their nature to do so. Where I struggled, and where I think a lot of young men struggle, is identifying that thing. You don’t seem to have an answer for that. The second problem is the problem of timing. If you find it, there’s a possibility you have to find it early. You don’t seem to have an answer for that either.

>>22003131
It’s not merely idealism. It’s ultimately historical fact. Why should it be necessary for people to make an effort at a life they don’t want or believe is good, or even necessary?

>>22003144
How are the seeds planted? We just talked at length about how classical education with the goal of human cultivation has been totally abandoned. You’re consistently confusing “educated” with “able to recall a lot of facts” but the whole point I’m making is that’s not really what it means to be educated.

Wouldn't be funny if after all this, it turns out that GPT-4 is the limit of current AI and the next 20 years are an AI winter?

>>22003166
Are you an incredible dumbass or something?
So what if there's a market? It's an INSIGNIFICANT market.
You may as well argue that it's worth our time to walk the beaches of the world, looking for gleaming grains of sand, and then try to live on the money we get for selling that gold.

>>22003169
If you're not in favor of colonizing other planets, then your remaining choices are to become someone worth keeping around in the modern world, or resign yourself to death, poverty, and your corpse being transformed into carbon-free crude oil by hydrothermal liquefaction.

>>22003217
>hydrothermal liquefaction.
Why is this shit being spammed all across the board? Have something happen?

>>22003098
Today there are no opportunities. Any city where a tech boom takes off... Rents just increase to match the rising incomes. Our whole society is baby boomers forcing younger generations to pay off their mortgages while treading water well into their forties. There are no options for getting ahead it seems like. Just a constant struggle to get by. Everyone in my generation is either chasing "experiences" while owning nothing and pretending to be happy, or they're stagnating in small towns having traded their dreams for a few acres and a car that won't be paid off until their 40s.

The middle aged had higher levels of social mobility than our "meritocratic" society does. That's why rich kids can just endlessly drift through life collecting alcaldes while the rest of us drift through life collecting debt.

>>22003190
> Where I struggled, and where I think a lot of young men struggle, is identifying that thing
This is true. We’re all told that fantasy that we should just mindlessly pursue money as our main goal in life. I’ve come to realize that that will not fulfill me. I’ve bought some things in the near past, as an adult getting a paycheck for the first time, game consoles and shit like that. They all lose their novelty fairly quickly for me and then just become a mundane and irrelevant part of my life. I can only imagine that buying an expensive car or mansion is the same thing but on a bigger scale: a shallow acquisition. All the fables and tales about greed are correct and it’s just absurd to me that a supposedly advanced civilization would ignore ancient wisdom.

>>22003217
Right, so that begs the question. If I don’t share the dream and none of those are agreeable, then why should I work hard? You see the problem? You expect people to work hard but offer few things worth working hard for. As for myself, I know what I want out of life and what’s worth working hard for. I only worry that it’s simply too late in life for me. It took me a long time to find something outside of the options you’re offering now.

>>22003214
Billions are insignificant? You’re now moving the goal post

>>22003184
The "chimps" are too busy fighting among themselves, and killing themselves off, to even notice their puppet strings.
You're assuming they'll grow a brain in the near future.
I'm perfectly comfortable assuming they won't.
>>22003190
I don't work hard with the expectation of guaranteed payoff.
I work hard because it's necessary to succeed, even if it isn't sufficient.
Re: "identifying the thing"...that's up to each person, depending on their interests, talents, and education. No one can answer that question for you.
Re: "timing"...working hard, and being involved in the world around you, increases your odds that you'll spot the next big thing before others.
So yes, I have answers to that, but not for the lazy and complacent.
>>22003198
>why make an effort
Self-interest. The alternative involves being suicidal.
And suicidal philosophies, by definition, don't survive to propagate.
>>22003204
We've never had the nVidia A100 TPU chip before, though.
We have only begun to tap its possibilities.

>>22003220
Hydrothermal liquefaction is the simplest solution for excess humanity.
No more expending energy in Nazi-like "ovens".
No more mass graves.
Just lots of carbon-neutral crude oil.

>>22003244
Bleak af

>>22003236
>Just frantically expand effort without seeing results, because my delusions of being a temporarily embarrassed millionaire is the only thing keeping me from suicide
Bleak

>>22003222
Agree. What’s an alcalde btw?

>>22003222
>Today there are no opportunities
Are you actually good at anything?
Or are you lazy and complacent?
In generations past, hard work was not only considered a virtue, but a necessity.
Do you feel that way about hard work?
Also, you describe "tech boom" as something that exists outside of your experience.
Is that your way of admitting you have no tech-related abilities?
>>22003224
>consoom
I save my money for retirement.
My personal goals don't revolve around mindless entertainment or mindless consumerism, but having the time and freedom to pursue my own projects...which, as you may have guessed from my being here, involves writing fiction.
I also would like more time and energy to pursue writing open-source software.
Do you have any goals beyond consooming?
>>22003226
Work hard for your own self-interest.
The alternative is to drown.
>>22003231
Ugh. How many of those billions involve newly-created art?
And if it's vanishingly small...then how can you consider the creation of art to be a viable way to make money?

>>22003258
I assume you have kids and a family because otherwise the goals you're working for do not require that much money, unless you're a consoomer that requires a certain standard of living.

>>22003258
> How many of those billions involve newly-created art?
Around 3 billion. Of course this market doesn’t exist for you.

>>22003236
>>22003244
I'm not bleak, I'm realistic.
I have no desire to delude myself.
Dismissing my observations as "bleak" betrays a desire for self-delusion.
And I'm not even vaguely suicidal; I'm not sure why you would think I was. Projection, maybe?
Just remember...you're the one suffering, and I'm the one trying to wake you up.
It seems increasingly unlikely I will succeed, but I'm trying (i.e. working hard), and at least my conscience will be clear.
After all, you were warned.

>>22003203
Do you have to go to school to have arms? To know how to walk? The same applies to thinking abilities, learning, etc.

>replies to himself
schizo samefags get the rope

>>22003266
I wish to live comfortably in a nice, clean, quiet neighborhood not inundated with criminals, drug addicts, and homeless.
And, these days, that costs money.
>>22003267
What percentage of new art is part of that $3 billion?
How much "new art" isn't deemed to be worth enough for the artists to make enough money to survive?

The fact that people consider chatGPT as intelligent reveals just how shallow and superficial our society's concept of intelligence is.

>>22003274
Ugh... >>22003269 was meant to be a reply to >>22003248 and >>22003248
But no, by all means, get the rope. You've stupidly revealed your awful values. No wonder you fail.

AI retards need to be banned immediately for spamming this board

>>22003277
Actually, it more reveals how stupid the average person is, if what they can do can be eclipsed by AI.
Lazy, complacent, conformist...I've said it before, and I'll say it again...and no one will listen...but they'll go right on whining...

>>22003281
So your solution is the use of force to silence opinions you disagree with?
Fascist.
And like I said in >>22003135 , discussing AI is very relevant to this board.

>>22003277
Ok, I will give you a TypeScript function with multiple nested awaits, tangled up into a chain of multiple map calls and tell you to refactor it. Let's see if you will outperform ChatGPT.

>>22003258
I’m not sure how you can even conclude that my goal in life is somehow consooming after I explicitly stated it’s a shallow endeavor on whatever level.

>>22003236
You’re just evading the line of questioning. I asked you what people should work hard at, not for. Your response was on one hand, nothing because you shouldn’t work for a payoff. Then on the other hand, a vague notion of success. Not only are these contradictory answers, but they lack context. Success at what? What is success? But then you go on to talk about opportunities and timing, but for what? Money? Is that it? The whole premise was what if they’re not motivated by money. But then further down you admit that the choice is work hard, hoping you’ll get self-interest (money) but expecting nothing, or suicide, demonstrating that you really don’t have an answer.

>>22003222
It’s worse than you say. Even the military adventurism bubble has popped because no one wants to die for oil company profits or to fill Afghani universities with homosexuals and women.

>>22003258
This idea that the ultimate virtue always and everywhere has been hard work is just a lie. Working really hard at something you didn’t choose for yourself and not having the option of leisure didn’t mean you were noble. It meant you were a slave.

>>22003258
I speak half a dozen languages and built my own dropshipping company that uses AI creatively to earn a passive income. Taught myself the basics of web design, graphics design, et cetra. in the process. It's all meaningless without access to the proper networks. Most people I share this with just look at me like I'm a lazy asshole who's wasting his time instead of getting a "real job" earning $20/hour in construction or whatever. None of these skills actually translate to a livable income working for other people either, because like I said, it just goes into the 'cost of living adjustments' in cities that offer access to these industries.

I did once meet a guy the same age as me whos parents paid for him to go to Cornell to smoke weed and do the bare minimum to graduate, then bought him a house as a graduation present. He leveraged that to buy another house and now travels the world with rent money from his tenants and the trust fund his mommy and daddy set him up with.

I guess I must just be lazy and complacent though. If only I was working 14 hours a day instead of 12! If only Id just starve on days that the soup kitchen is closed instead of buying a cheap lunch! Then everything would be different from me! Yessuh must be my own lazy asses fault I'm not Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates. If I was just a little bit smarter, a little bit harder working, I too could be Elon Musk!

>>22003258
> work hard on things you don’t care about or might actually think are bad without expecting a payoff or drown and die
> this somehow isn’t bleak

>>22003284
No, it’s not relevant at all. Just because you do not have a creative bone in your body and are fundamentally writing anything worth reading, does not mean it is relevant when a glorified sentence-generator creates slop more interesting than anything you will ever produce. And simply because the landwhale Colleen Hoovers will be replaced does not mean it is relevant for this board. That’s not literature and only retards read that slop and only retards are worried about AI. Fuck off, retard, and yes, I am a fascist.

>>22003271
Oh I see. Then we should all Rembrandt simply because we have arms.

Unfortunately, this isn’t how it works.

>>22003291
You didn't articulate a purpose for your life beyond consooming.
I went with what little I knew about you.
Feel free to relate your purpose for your life.
>>22003309
Are you having reading comprehension issues or something?
I said what people should work hard at depends on a person's interests, tlent, and education. I said so >>22002618 and >>22003236 .
The rest of what you posted is too gibberish to even respond to.
You're not even trying.
Lazy, complacent, conformist...

>>22003283
True, but if their employers are just as brainless wouldn't be just as bad? I swear, there will be people dumb enough to put their faith in an AI surgeon or trust their assests to an AI investor. Look at all the praise Uber gets for its shitty price inflating algorithm.
>>22003285
Kinda proves his point though. Intelligence does not equate to having a bunch of utilitarian skills that employers like or are productive. Aristotle couldn't use a computer, that doesn't make him less intelligent than me.

>>22003254
*accolades

>>22003330
It does depend on their interests, talent, etc. but again, my assertion lies not in whether or not they work hard at that thing which depends on these but whether they can identify it at all. Most people will never find something that really calls out to them. Of those that will, they’ll hear that calling very late. It’s not clear to me what the 34 year old lifelong NEET just discovering a love of painting is supposed to do with that. It’s not clear to me what the 35 year old depressed accountant who doesn’t hear any calling at all is supposed to do. So you have a 2 part problem that you are just not answering.

>>22002151
What exactly is your problem? You can't find work with a literature degree?

>>22003319
I'm working hard for my own interests, not to be a slave.
You have a really limited and degenerate view of "hard work".
>>22003320
>I speak half a dozen languages and built my own dropshipping company that uses AI creatively to earn a passive income
So? By your own admission, that's not enough.
So do something else.
>>22003321
I never denied it was bleak; I said it was real.
Of course it's bleak. But so what? I see no value in self-delusion.
Life is tough. Quit wallowing and deal with it. Or you will drown.
Not because any of us like that but because that's the nature of it.
>>22003326
I'm not even sure what you're saying here.
And your smug pride in being a fascist is absolutely disgraceful.
Nevertheless, good luck in forcing the world to be the way you want it to be.
How's that working out for you so far?

>>22002618
Again, these people are finding themselves involved in things which they have no genuine interest for. Why should they distinguish themselves at it then? Why should someone distinguish themselves at a dead-end symbol analysis job they don’t even believe in? Even if it was laziness that doomed them, you’re not addressing the timing problem.

>>22003347
Wagie wagie
Ride your cagie
To your cubie
So your jewie bossies
Can tell you what to doie

>>22003347
No. I don’t have a literature degree.

>>22003279
Huh? Take it easy.

>>22003353
It seems to me like you’re the one deluding yourself. If it’s really that bleak, why strive so hard? Working hard on something meaningless that renders no pay off isn’t a virtue. It’s just dumb.

>>22003353
Imagine being this much of a bootlicking cuckold for the bourgeoisie and saying shit like
>And your smug pride in being a fascist is absolutely disgraceful.
You're a house nigger screaming at field niggers that if they just worked harder they too could be plantation owners someday. I would give everything I own to beat you to death with a rusty pipe. The world needs another Holocaust just for people like you.

>>22003345
Yes, many people have dug themselves into a pit.
But that pit is of their own making.
And if one cannot identify something that calls out to them, I put it to you that the #1 reason one cannot identify it is...wait for it...laziness, complacency, and conformity. Frankly, I can't even imagine being that dead inside.
You can't just keep screwing up & expect to get good results.

>>22001130
I have published stuff of my own and I'm not too worried about it. Think about AI and visual art for a second. The AI art threads on here have some of the most beautiful, perfect, wildly imaginative pieces you could ever hope for, in other words, the AI is essentially as good as it will ever be at making art, it's already perfect, and it can be done for any subject in seconds. Despite that, human-made art still exists, and will continue to. Sure, some commercial opportunities will go away for artists but in terms of art existing for art's sake, human made art will not go away. It's the same with writing. AI will eliminate commercial writing opportunities but just like with visual art, AI writing and human writing will exist side by side.

>>22003355
>finding themselves involved in things
This betrays a passive viewpoint.
You won't succeed at anything by being passive.
>admits to laziness, whines about timing
Hard work makes you luckier.
>>22003356
That's not how my career is.
Projecting much?
>>22003362
It's not bleak to me, because I don't possess all the self-defeating worldviews I'm seeing on display here.
You really missed that point? Wow.
>>22003366
I don't think it's assuming too much to say you have no control whatsoever over the events of your life.
You're just a sad terminally-online seether.
Enjoy continuing to be utterly feckless.

>>22003368
So you admit that you don’t have an answer then, because what’s done is done.

>>22003276
Well? How much "new art" isn't deemed to be worth enough (i.e. not part of the $3 billion figure you cite) for the artists to make enough money to survive?
No answer, huh?
Brainlet.

>>22003384
What's done is done?
Pathetic self-defeating nonsense.
Are you suggesting that laziness, complacency, and conformity is somehow a permanent condition?
My life is an example of the answer you seek, because I don't have these problems.

>>22003369
> the AI is essentially as good as it will ever be at making art
Oh boy, you can’t be this naive. This shit gets better and better.

>>22003383
>I don't think it's assuming too much to say you have no control whatsoever over the events of your life.
The entire economy was locked down for two years while private investors and property owners saw their wealth increase by hundreds of thousands of dollars without lifting a finger.
Take your boomer bullshit and shove it up your ass you stupid cunt

>>22003383
Of course it’s a passive viewpoint. Again, the whole premise is that people are failing to identify something worth pursuing. You just keep appealing to a lack of success but that doesn’t matter at all. If I never wanted to go to college, why would I care if I’m successful in college. You keep insisting I should work hard, but giving any reason why.

I truly think what you’re failing to understand is that people feel trapped. You seem to think that people have and have always had this plurality of choice at their fingertips and they chose what they wanted but failed out of laziness. In truth, they usually chose the lesser of two evils. Go talk to young college students. Tell me how many are grinding away in degree programs they have absolutely no interest in. And then ask them “what would you want to do”. They can’t identify anything they want to do. They feel like they’re stuck on this shitty treadmill they never asked to be put on. And if they ever manage to find a treadmill they do want to be on, it’s often very late, maybe so late that success is no longer possible. So this whole “you should’ve just worked harder” is meaningless to those people. At best they would’ve achieved some success they never even cared about.

>>22003396
I remained employed during the entire "lockdown".
I also went outside any time i wanted, shopping wherever I wanted.
The only real difference I noticed was that in-person dining was much less common.
I put it to you, again, that you are your own worst enemy.

>>22003393
Okay, so you expect the 34 year old NEET that discovers his passion for politics can become a Senator with enough hard work, right? Or perhaps he can’t because what’s done is done?

>>22003329
I said that homeschooling is for individuals, not for everyone. Can you read? Did you go to school?

>>22003404
>why work hard
For the same reason I keep giving you...for your own self-interest.
Because working hard is necessary to achieve whatever you want to in your life, even if it isn't sufficient.
You either have some serious reading-comprehension issues, or you're wallowing in your own self-defeating depression.
>people feel trapped
Strawman argument, as well as passive viewpoint.
Have you noticed I DON'T have a passive viewpoint?
Do you think that has any relevance here?
>grinding away in degree programs they have absolutely no interest in
Sounds like NPCs with no inner life.
They need to take it upon themselves to evolve beyond being a hylic, or they will forever be little more than a leaf blowing in the wind.
So, once again...making an effort is necessary (yet not sufficient).
Also...why would they get a degree in a subject if they have no interest in that subject? Sounds like they deliberately signed up for failure.

When it comes to finding a passion, interest, or calling the biggest threat young people face is being able to indulge in it online and not in person. There are people on /lit/ right now talking about books, which if the internet never existed would have been writing them and hanging out in literary circles. Young people need to be wary of this. Post physique needs to be demonstrated in all arenas of life. I really wish I had learned that lesson earlier.

>>22001138
Taking English in college to become a writer had always been a lost cause unless you have alternative income.

Before the 60s people just lived and worked and wrote and got paid.

Then those boomer cunts pulled up the ladder, and you needed an education (that they didn't need).

But that wasn't enough so they tied their pensions to house prices and refused to build more. So while they could own a home flipping burgers, you now need to be in the top 20% wages.

Even somebody like Donna Tartt had to be independently funded and took 10 years to write her first novel after college.

>>22003411
34 is young.
And it's your generation's arrogant conceit that one can go straight from being a NEET to being a senator...John Fetterman notwithstanding.
You need to climb your way there slowly, by getting involved in lower, more accessible levels of politics first.
As you interact with the real world, see what it's about, and what you're about, you may find a better place for yourself than your original concept.
But you'll never know until...wait for it...you get off your dead ass and actually DO something.

>>22003430
What self-interest? Self-interest is a vague term. If you’re not motivated by money, or social activism for misbehaving blacks, or gay space futurism, what do you have left? Society gives you nothing else. You have to go out in the desert and wander until you find it, but whether you ever find it remains an open-ended question and then there also remains the possibility that you find it too late to really be “successful”.

Slacker’s wager
- Do nothing: nothing happens.
- Work hard: great things can happen or nothing can happen.
Decisions, decisions.

>>22003430
You don’t really have a view point. You have vague terms and truisms. You expect people to work hard without really giving them a reason to, and when challenged to answer you can’t. You refer to “self-interest” which is not an answer.

You can’t even seem to sympathize with people feeling stuck in a degree program they don’t have an interest in, but not having an interest in any other degree programs. You’re the NPC.

>>22003423
You've hit upon a very important point here.
Too many parents these days are uninvolved with their children, content to foist them off to a badly-run government education system for their development.
Why even have kids in the first place, if you're going to be like that? It boggles the mind.
My parents were like that, but I'm the self-driven type, so it didn't affect me as much as it affected the passive, lazy, complacent, conformist types.
One of the positive outcomes of the pandemic is that parents rediscovered homeschooling, and some have continued it, or at the very least, gotten their kids out of the conformity-inducing nightmare known as government-run education.

>>22003438
You’re lying if you say you believe it’s remotely possible at all. You don’t actually believe that.

>>22003434
> Post physique needs to be demonstrated in all arenas of life. I really wish I had learned that lesson earlier.
Elaborate

>>22003444
> just give your life to Bezos because maybe great things will happen
That makes a lot of sense. If you waste your time, you waste your time. Period. That’s all you get.

I think some dreams are indeed gone for good if you don’t try to cultivate them early in your life. No one becomes a football player when they’re 39, for example. But some other things, like being an artist or a writer are more easily doable.

>>22002505
Yep. In hindsight, it shouldn't have been so surprising to me. ChatGPT speaks the exact kind of anydone, sexless, neutered language that HR-roasties themselves employ.

I will NEVER get a job and the wagecucks can continue providing my sustenance thanks to their Jewish overlords.

>>22003437
If someone gets an English/MFA degree in college, and expects to jump straight into making an independent living as a writer, they're delusional.
Picrel explains that in great detail, for anyone interested in working their way out of their self-defeating ignorance.
Kids these days expect to race to the other side of the checkboard and shout "king me!"
Everyone else realizes they have to work their way up, through hard work and effort.
>>22003440
>>22003445
>what self-interest
You know, your OWN interests?
Like, being able to live, and grow, and thrive?
Is this your way of saying you can't conceive of your own self-interest?
You may have achieved a level of passive hylic that I can't even comprehend.
>you're the NPC
Pure cope. I work hard to take control of my own life.
It's not sufficient, but it's necessary.
>>22003444
THIS. THANK YOU!

>>22003451
On frog Twitter, when people shit talk each other they respond with “post physique”. The idea is that you can’t just talk online. You have to really be that guy in real life too. You look at a place like /lit/ and there are a lot of people who are talking about writing, reading about writing, but doing very little writing. It’s a trap that’s easy to fall into. The day you became a /lit/ a regular is the day you should’ve started your first book probably. Because what happens when you don’t is you look back at like 30, 35, 40 and you go “fuck, I really should’ve started when I was 25 but I wasted 5, 10, 15 years talking about books online and not writing them”. You could say the same for /pol/ right? Why are all those people talking about politics but not running for office, or working on campaigns, or having meetups at least? This is a huge mistake I made in my 20s and I feel like it was catastrophic actually.

>>22003457
History suggest otherwise. People comment on how old Van Gogh and Plato were when they dedicated themselves to painting and philosophy respectively. They were 28. They were not 38.

>>22003456
>working for Amazon is all there is in life
You’re very myopic and you sound depressed
> If you waste your time, you waste your time
It’s only a waste if you don’t reach your goal or if you don’t get experience for future endeavors.

>>22003464
So mere survival? That’s self-interest?

>>22003448
Wow...more passive hylic nonsense.
Not only is it possible...but without a stroke of incredible luck, like being born to rich and indulgent parents...it's the ONLY way it can happen.
>>22003458
I bow to your transcendence of this world's endemic lameness.
I will start by asking ChatGPT to write what I feel, but in a more socially-acceptable way.
>>22003462
Remember what happens to the parasites when they succeed in killing the host.

>>22003469
The difference is, there’s nothing physically stopping a 38 yo from becoming a writer or an artist while a 38 yo’s body is in too decline for sports.

>>22003480
Keep crying, DYEL wagie

>>22003472
I can admit that I am depressed but I don’t think it’s wrong, and what I was doing there is parodying the point of the person I’m arguing with.

If you never had a goal, you can’t possibly reach your goal can you. There are people who will find themselves on tracks in life that they simply have no interest in. My point is that while the challenge is to quickly identify something you do have interest in, many people are failing at that. It’s become exceedingly difficult, maybe more difficult than it’s ever been.

>>22003458
Success in life is a multifaceted concept that can be defined in different ways by different individuals. However, one thing is clear: achieving success requires a combination of various qualities, including hard work, self-directed education, and paying attention to detail. While these qualities are essential for achieving success, they are not sufficient on their own.
Hard work is undoubtedly one of the most important qualities necessary for achieving success. It is the driving force behind many of the world's most successful people, and it is the key to achieving one's goals and ambitions. Hard work involves dedicating oneself to a task or goal and putting in the time and effort required to achieve it. Whether it is studying for an exam, building a business, or mastering a skill, hard work is the foundation on which success is built.
Self-directed education is another key quality for achieving success. In today's rapidly changing world, the ability to learn and adapt quickly is more important than ever. Self-directed education involves taking the initiative to seek out knowledge and skills, and being proactive in one's own learning. It requires a willingness to explore new ideas and to challenge oneself intellectually. Self-directed learners are able to develop their own interests and passions, and they are not limited by the constraints of traditional education.

>>22003489
It begs the question why there aren’t examples to point to.

>>22003497
Paying attention to detail is a third quality that is essential for achieving success. Details can make all the difference in achieving one's goals and ambitions. Whether it is in the realm of business, science, or the arts, paying attention to detail can be the difference between success and failure. It involves being meticulous and precise in one's work, and not letting small errors or oversights go unnoticed. Paying attention to detail also involves having a keen eye for quality and excellence, and a commitment to producing work that is of the highest standard.
However, while hard work, self-directed education, and paying attention to detail are necessary for achieving success, they are not sufficient on their own. Success also requires a combination of other qualities, such as creativity, resilience, adaptability, and the ability to work well with others. Creativity is necessary for finding new solutions to old problems, and for developing innovative ideas and products. Resilience is necessary for overcoming obstacles and setbacks, and for staying motivated in the face of adversity. Adaptability is necessary for thriving in an ever-changing world, and for being able to pivot and adjust to new circumstances. Finally, the ability to work well with others is necessary for building relationships and networks, and for being able to collaborate and communicate effectively.
In conclusion, achieving success in life requires a combination of various qualities, including hard work, self-directed education, and paying attention to detail. These qualities are the foundation on which success is built, and they are essential for achieving one's goals and ambitions. However, they are not sufficient on their own, and must be supplemented by other qualities and factors. By developing a broad range of skills and qualities, and by remaining committed and focused on one's goals, anyone can achieve success in their chosen field.
--------
Awesome...I finally found a clear and present use for ChatGPT. Thanks a million, >>22003458 !!!
And for all the navel-gazing passive hylics here...does THIS explain it for you?

>>22003489
>>22003502
We’re also sssuming that what people want is some success at some skilled activity. What if what they want is to be someone in particular, like the example of the NEET who wants to be a Senator?

>>22003502
Donald Ray Pollock was a laborer and truck driver until age 50. He published his first novel, The Devil All the Time (2011), at age 57. The novel was translated into different languages and adapted into a film with famous actors, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Ray_Pollock

>>22003438
>your generation
Of course this guy is a boomer faggot.

You don't worry hard. You were born into a great society where even minimal effort got you an easy life, then you pulled up the lader on every generation after you and turned the economy into a pyramid scheme of constantly increasing rents and nonexistent social mobility.

You don't know what hard work is you useless sack of shit. Your entire personality is just you sucking yourself off for having had the easiest life in the history of.humanity. you fucking loser.

>>22003476
Mere survival is only the beginning of self-interest.
Then comes being able to save for the future, having the resources to do more of what you want, being able to affect people other than yourself, and so on.
Do I need to ask ChatGPT to write an essay about that, too?
Good Lord, anon, pull your head out of your ass! You're the only one suffering here!
>>22003469
28 was really old in that era -- life expectancy was much shorter than it is now.
>>22003492
Eh? My career is too far high-level to be a mere "wagie".
>DYEL
Being a former student athlete, and construction worker, I am physically far more endowed than the milquetoast cityboys I work with.
>>22003495
>admits to being depressed
Has it occurred to you that you need to move beyond that if you ever want to escape the pit you dug for yourself? Ugh.
>people who will find themselves on tracks in life
Passive hylic nonsense again.
You should be thanking me for pointing out your self-sabotage.
Now that you're aware of it, you can do something about it.
>>22003511
There's no point in having completely unrealistic dreams.
Minna-Maaria Antikainen might think he's a female ice skater, but he's a 59-year old trans farmer suffering under a lot of delusions.

>>22003502
>closes his eyes, plugs his ears, bleats about how he can't see any examples
Wow...what pathetic self-defeating nonsense.
Thank you for demonstrating why empathy for people like you isn't justified.
Of course, I figured that out years ago. But it's nice to have a lifetime of cynicism validated.

>>22003526
No, I'm GenX.
My generation got shafted hard, too.
We were the first "latch-key kids", after all.
And plenty of my peers became, and remained, "slackers".
But I refused to join their self-defeating nonsense.
Are you implying that there aren't a sufficient percentage of your generation that AREN'T navel-gazing, self-defeated, passive hylics like you?
Because that sounds like justification.

>>22001130
Redditors BTFO
Maybe he can retrain to become a reddit mod

>>22003447
Yes and that will never change. Let the stupid people be stupid. But why not homeschool as individuals?

>>22003532
So in the end it’s all monetary for you, just like I thought.

By the way, 28 is still 28 whether you live to be 50 or 100.

>>22003532
Ugh. I know I have to. May as well get it over with.

At its most basic level, self-interest can be defined as the act of pursuing one's own well-being and personal goals. While survival is undoubtedly a critical aspect of self-interest, it is only the beginning. Once one has secured their basic needs, such as food, shelter, and safety, they can begin to pursue higher levels of self-interest, such as saving for the future, having the resources to do more of what they want, and being able to affect people other than themselves.
Saving for the future is an important aspect of self-interest, as it allows individuals to plan and prepare for future challenges and opportunities. Whether it is saving for retirement, building an emergency fund, or investing in education or training, saving for the future provides a sense of security and peace of mind. By setting aside resources today, individuals can ensure that they will be able to meet their future needs and pursue their long-term goals.
Having the resources to do more of what one wants is another critical aspect of self-interest. With greater financial resources, individuals can pursue their interests and passions, travel, purchase luxury goods, and indulge in experiences that enhance their quality of life. Having the means to pursue these desires provides a sense of freedom and autonomy, allowing individuals to live life on their own terms.
Finally, being able to affect people other than oneself is an important aspect of self-interest that goes beyond personal gratification. By having the means to give back to others, individuals can make a positive impact on their communities and the world at large. This might involve donating to charity, volunteering time or resources, or pursuing a career or vocation that contributes to the greater good. By making a positive impact on others, individuals can derive a sense of purpose and fulfillment that goes beyond their own personal interests.
In conclusion, mere survival is only the beginning of self-interest. Once individuals have secured their basic needs, they can pursue higher levels of self-interest, such as saving for the future, having the resources to do more of what they want, and being able to affect people other than themselves. By pursuing these goals, individuals can enhance their quality of life, achieve a sense of freedom and autonomy, and make a positive impact on the world around them. Ultimately, self-interest is about pursuing one's own goals and aspirations while also making a positive contribution to the greater good.

>>22003561
That's essentially what I did...I've learned far more on my own than I ever did at school.
I'm a lifelong self-directed learner.
>>22003563
>blah blah money
Again, just your degenerate interpretation of what I'm trying to say.
It's giving me a headache to try to think down to your level.

>>22003532
>too far high-level
hahah wagie cope

>>22003569
But but we are ruined because we went to school. Why not change that for the following generations?

>>22003575
You're cute. You amuse me.
My life is orders of magnitude more desirable than yours, and at the rate you're not going, always will be.

>>22003532
Is it self-sabotage. When I look back on my life I can see perfectly clearly that I can work hard when I have something I want or when I have no choice and I did. I consistently failed anyway. I failed to work hard at the things I didn’t want, but for the other things I thought I wanted, hard work got me nowhere in the end.

>>22003581
I went to school too.
But I didn't let it ruin me.
Once again, you assume that everyone else has to be a passive, lazy, conformist hylic like you.

>>22003587
Wagie wagie sitting at your desk getting nerd neck! Pray tell, Mr. Success 101, what is your "too far high-level" career?

>>22003588
You only failed when you stopped working hard.
A ridiculously high percentage of Donald Trump's investments failed, but the ones that succeeded made up for the failures.
And he is, and remains, a billionaire.
Also, you imply that working hard is something you have to be forced into doing, whereas I consider it something I do normally, by default.

>>22003598
I answered that here >>22003124 .
And I'm not sitting at my desk when I'm on flight tests.
Have you ever flown in a business jet, e.g. Gulfstream, Dassault, Embraer, Textron, etc.?
That's jut a normal part of my day.
Cope and seethe, parasite.

>>22003569
No. It’s what you said almost verbatim. You even called it “resources”.

>>22003549
Losing 30-100k in real estate, on paper, for six years, is orders of magnitude better than getting BTFOd by economic collapse at the intial stage of adulthood. Go fuck yerself x-er

>>22003603
Stop it. Donald Trump’s father was a billionaire before Donald was even born. I failed and then I realized what I failed at was not what I really wanted. I only ever wanted two things. The first I worked my ass of for and then had it ripped away from me by an injury. The second I didn’t even discover until I was 28 and at that point I had done basically everything you don’t want to do for success in that thing.

What is it with you and this appeal to money anyway? How many times do you have to be told that it’s not about the money, that we’re not motivated by money? Is this a really elaborate troll?

>>22003622
Athlete?

>>22003598
Oh, let me tell you about a creature so rare,
A hylic NEET who's terminally online, I swear!
He spends all his days on the internet's streams,
Lazing around in his digital dreams.

He's a complacent conformist, living in his own head,
Thinking he's witty and clever with nothing to be said.
He won't lift a finger or try something new,
Content with the status quo, just like all the rest who do.

His life's just a cycle of memes and TV,
The world passing him by, while he sits and agrees.
He's a slave to his comforts, a victim of his vice,
Too scared to take risks and pay any price.

Oh, what a shame for a being with such potential,
To waste all his time on things so inconsequential.
His life could be great, filled with meaning and worth,
But instead, he's just a lazy bum, nothing more than a dearth.

So let this be a lesson, for those of us who dare,
To live our lives fully, and to never be ensnared.
By the complacency of the hylic NEET,
And the trap of a life lived entirely on the internet's street.

The world is ending, guys. Just do whatever the fuck you want. I’m writing the most insane film script ever before the machines replace us definitely.

I have to reply to this thread because there's some interesting discussion here. I don't entirely understand the other anon calling other anonymous lady's viewpoint which as I understand it is to pursue hard work for the sake of self interest. And that for this reason hard work is necessary, even if it is not sustainable. Is this correct?

>>22003616
Resources encompass far more than money.
The most important resource in this day and age is personal connections.
Money is a very convertible form of resource, but that's about it.
>>22003619
We had a giant recession in 1992, as well as a dot-com bubble in 2000.
Don't whine to me about economic collapse, snowflake.
>>22003622
And yet, out of all his siblings, and despite them having the advantage of a rich fater, Donald was the only one that became a billionaire.

>>22003653
No, I said hard work is necessary, but not sufficient.
>>22003444 said it best.

>>22003654
And you really believe that the only reason is because he worked harder. What does any of this have to do with me anyway?

>>22003632
Military officer cadet.

>>22003669
HAHAHAHAHAH ROTC faggot

>>22003664
Sigh. You're not even trying to listen.
As I have said REPEATEDLY, hard work is necessary but not sufficient.
The point is that billionairehood was not simply handed to Donald; he had to work hard, take risks, and enjoy some luck.
His siblings, despite having the same advantages, didn't end up billionaires.
Heck, his older brother drank himself to death. Obviously, alcohol abuse is not a route to success.
For the record, I don't feel I have much luck; I appear to be an unwilling cosmic-plaything.
So whatever I have, came to me through hard work, not luck.
And yet I didn't become a navel-gazing, defeatist whiner.

>>22003669
And the second thing?

>>22003669
So I guess you didn't make it far enough to get a military desk job?
Perhaps you should have transferred to the Chair Force. They spend a lot of time sitting.

>>22003549
The issue is that instead of looking at the actual real life mechanisms that make success happen, you're staring up in servile wonder at the fake stories that rich people invented to justify their wealth.

Being a dumb house nigger doesn't make you enlightened. It just means you're stupid enough to swallow the propaganda. And for all the pointless effort you waste imagining that you're "making it", you could have been organizing along class lines with people in the same position as you. Or you could have at least been enjoying yourself.

You can call me a hyllic all you want but I'm ten times the man you'll ever be you geriatric fuck. I've fought in a war, been homeless on three continents, was raised on hard farm labour, learned half a dozen languages in my own, partied with narcos in the third world, got rejected from the FFL, lived in a refugee camp, was the aide-de-camp for an actual prince, fucked an actual princess, and done countless other things that bitch niggers like you only read about in fantasy books.

The difference between me and you is I'm not a dick sucking lackey for the bourgeoisie trying desperately to be 'one of the good ones'. Genuinely believing in just world bullshit is a cope for losers who coast through life and judgemental retards with a total lack of real world experience. You being a high level wage is impressive to absolutely nobody but yourself. You pathetic house nigger. Boot licking sack of shit. You should kill yourself

>>22003653
Hard work is absolutely a prerequisite for success. The debate is about what people should work hard for. My contention is that a lot of young people struggle to identify anything worth working hard at or for and if they do manage to identify it, it might be too late. You see this now with this ChatGPT thing and writers. People are thinking “what is the point” and they either fail to pursue writing or they commit much later than they would have at a time which can prohibit success. His, or her, contention is that it doesn’t matter and they should just work hard at whatever and I guess get rich or get resources or like Donald Trump or something. I really don’t even know.

>>22003659
Then based on that simplification, I don't really see anything wrong with it inherently. I guess if you really wanted to make an argument, you could say not everyone can pursue self interest due to circumstances or others can pursue self interest better than others can.
Assuming I'm understanding you correctly, by 'not sufficent' it's acknowledging that hard work alone does not necessarily guarantee success, but unlike no effort, still grants a chance of success. I don't really see what's so wrong about that, other anons may be too focused on the obstacles rather than the work aspect, but an argument probably could be made that its too reductive. I understand it though, I'm not much of a hard worker myself, so I can't exactly call them out on it. But I wouldn't say what you're saying is logically incorrect.

>>22003685
I don’t know if I want to say because I could identify myself. Is there a reason you’re asking?

>>22003688
I was disqualified from service entirely.

>>22003603
>Just be Donald Trump
>Just be Jeff Bezos
>Just be Bill Gates
>Just be Elon Musk
>Just be born with wealthy parents that give you hundreds of thousands of dollars to gamble with, then when you lose it all, give you hundreds of thousands more to gamble with. That's all you need to succeed bro
You're actually a fucking idiot. You don't understand life. You don't understand success. All you understand is propaganda and an unwarranted sense of superiority from owning a McMansion.

>>22003704
> I don’t know if I want to say because I could identify myself. Is there a reason you’re asking?
No reason, just curiosity. My first thought was you wanted to make it in Hollywood but you called out the Jew on twitter or something like that. It’s okay if you want to keep it private.

>>22003690
Wow. So much self-delusion and projecting here.
>organizing along class lines
I figured out a long time ago that politics were useless. I don't engage. Have fun with your "revolution".
>enjoying yourself
I have the resources to live a life I enjoy outside of work, and have for years.
>I'm ten times the man you'll ever be
Wow...what pathetic dick-swinging.
Your definition of "real man" is my definition of "rootless criminal flake".
I have multiple patents based on my work. How many do you have? Or is a parole the highest commendation you've ever received?
>just world bullshit
I agree, that's bullshit. At the same time, if you don't work hard, you've cut off the most likely avenue for personal success.
>impressive to absolutely nobody but yourself
I wasn't trying to impress anyone. More projection here. You seem really insecure.
>kys
But I like my life. I don't even think of kms. More projection, I assume.

>>22003709
Ugh. You have epic reading-comprehension issues.
I hope you realize, if nothing else, that you're your own worst enemy.

Who’s an actual example of a self-made rich man? The only one I can think of is Steve Jobs. He was poor, he was adopted, he was a hippie college dropout. Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg, all came from money.

>>22003730
Steve Jobs's parents were upper middle class though weren't they?

>>22003730
What did you expect? That poor people will become rich out of nowhere?

>>22003714
No. I wanted to be a military officer and I worked my ass off for it. I was kind of a shitty student, but I was meeting the minimums, in a degree program I didn’t like but the military liked, and I was training hard to get good physical fitness and then right before I graduated I got sick and developed a chronic illness that disqualified me. In my later twenties, I did manage to find something else that motivated me but I had done pretty much everything you don’t want to do to have success in that thing up to that point. That’s really all there is to the story.

>>22003730
Ugh...you live in an age of instant information, yet remain abysmally ignorant.
https://www.google.com/search?q=examples+of+self+made+millionaires
Literally dozens and dozens of examples.
Enough so you can filter out the ones that don't meet your lofty standards.

>>22003690
If you’ve done all of that what do you have to complain about though?

>>22003717
NTA, but holy fucking shit I cannot begin to imagine how pathetic one must be to be fucking gen X'er who browses here, but even worse, a gen X'er who browses here and uses Guenonfag language, but even worse, brags about "le patents" on an anonymous forum.
Same goes for the other guy going on about fucking a prince and being homeless or whatever.
Just cringe all around, stop posting both of you

Men of spirit are NEETs, change my mind

>>22003753
Fortunately for me, I couldn't give two shits about your opinion, and I doubt you'll give me any reason to.

>>22003730
Forbes lists Sergey Brin as working class but his father was a professor of Mathematics at the University of Maryland.

>>22003734
They were high school dropouts. I think they were lower middle class at best.

>>22003717
>Your definition of "real man" is my definition of "rootless criminal flake".
Yet on any other society in history it would be considered one of the most noble callings a man could take. Ive known people with connections to the highest levels of power and they're a lot more like me than you could possibly imagine. Being a middling faggot who dumped their life into climbing the corporate lader of their gay little career doesn't make you a success. It makes you a house nigger. A slave. That's what you don't seem to understand. Loudly and proudly proclaiming that if you work really hard you can be a good little slavish cuckbot like you isn't motivating to anybody. It's pathetic, and shows a real lack of political and historical consciousness.

>I have multiple patents based on my work. How many do you have?
I have about eight from the business I started. It earns me a steady passive income. Once knew a man who made millions of his patents and had it all stolen by corrupt government officials. His invention is used internationally on cattle farms and he lives in a slapped together shack on the bad side of town on land he doesn't even own while working as a carpenter. Is this man a lazy parasite too? Or maybe you've just got an inflated ego based on taking the path of least resistance into an incredibly mediocre life.

>>22003462
Based and same.

>>22003480
>Remember what happens to the parasites when they succeed in killing the host.
Sure, then the host dies.
If you think me being a welfare recipient is going to destroy society, maybe cluth your peals more softly and work on your neuroticism.

>>22003748
Just making conversation. You’re being too negative.

Sad how this promising thread has been ruined by retards engaging in unironic anonymous dick measuring

>>22003730
George Soros. Henry Kissinger. Jeffrey Epstein.

Funny how cucks like the boomer ITT never hold up these people. Because theyre Jewish and came into power through the deep state, and none of that matches up with their free market Randian fantasies of based right wing wasps working hard and making it through inventing a product that people wanted or some other delusional shit like that. They have no understanding of how power works, they just swallow the propaganda dreamt up by PR teams working for the ultra wealthy in order to justify obscene levels of class inequality.

>>22003760
The lead-poisoning that is the reason why boomers are the way they are spills over into generation X. It wasn't until 1970 that leaded gasoline was banned in the US (and other countries following that), but the effect came gradually.
One of the effects of that lead-poisoning, apart form low IQ (hence, Guenonfagging) is what one might term pseudosociopathy - an unholy combination of very low agreeableness and very high neuroticism in OCEAN psychometrics.
This pseudosociopathy is the reason why you can so sadistically subject us all to such powerful cringe without feeling even a hint of remorse or shame. What you are doing is the equivalent of a sociopathic kid lighting a cat on fire. The kid doesn't give a shit either. He inflicts suffering, the way you do by posting cringe.
There is nothing to be done here. You are quite simply just evil for posting such profound cringe, and while I can't stop you, I certainly will no longer be reading your posts, and recommend every one else refrain from doing so as well.

>>22003785
How does power work? Do you think power is related to ethnicity (i.e. being Jewish)?

>>22003764
Nothing specific to reply to here...just projection, jumping to conclusions, and strawman arguments.
But, for the gazillionth fscking time, I never said hard work guaranteed success; I said it was necessary but not sufficient.
The main point is that I'm telling this to lazy, complacent people who have made no significant effort in their entire life.
And I'm glad to see you've generated some intellectual property. Though the general stupidity you display here makes me doubt the truth of this claim.

>>22003793
Wow...you are deliberately misinterpreting what I wrote here, and jumping to conclusions fiercely.
What awful logic you employ.
I think it's fair to say that you are beyond help.
But maybe someone here will wake up, which will make it all worth it.

I have learned more in 6 months of NEETing than in 12 years of school.

>>22003820
Top 5 nuggets of wisdom?
t. Fellow NEET

>>22003785
Kissinger has his career practically handed to him by the army because he was a German-speaking Jew. Read his Wikipedia page. It literally says they put him in charge of administrating an entire town and then put him through college because they “noticed his intellect”.

>>22003762
Yeah I just looked it up. His father was a used car salesman and his mother was a bookkeeper.

>>22003820
Come back after 6 years and let us know what you failed to learn.

Fun fact: Henry Kissinger will be 100 years old in 20 days.

>>22003793
>bleat bleat don't read his posts
You're afraid of words. How pathetic, and typical.
I prefer the free exchange of ideas to your cowardly censorship.
Anyway, I'm off to eat a sammich. Have a good rest of your day. Enjoy being miserable.
>>22003820
O rly? What do you have to show for it? Because that matters.

>>22001506
You guys could have been using duckduckgo all this time. You deserve your stinky results.

>>22003825
>>22003843
Let time pass, do things cautiously and slowly and whenever you are not sure wether something is going to succeed, wait out until you know better.

>>22003801
Power works through networks of people having control over critical infrastructure and bottlenecks which allows them leverage.

That's it. It absolutely has to do with ethnicity, and also with preexisting structures of command and control. It has nothing to do with hard work or luck, except in rare instances of emerging industries or civil war.

>>22003793
>It wasn't until 1970 that leaded gasoline was banned in the US (and other countries following that),
While efforts started in the 1970's, it was much later it was actually phased out entirely. It was gradual as you say, but most people born in the early 1980's were also hit bad, and everyone born anytime during or before he 70's was huffing it just as bad as the boomers. Generation X is jus as caked in lead as the boomers are, it's just that some of the psychological effects only really manifest once you get old.

>>22003812
Are you the generation X anon? In that case the point is merely that you are developmentally damaged from lead exposure, and it is not so much an argument as it is a statement of fact, unless you grew up hundreds of miles away from any machinery that used gasoline.

>>22003843
>"Anyway, I'm off to eat a sammich. Have a good rest of your day. Enjoy being miserable", the lead-poisoned old man typed angrily, seething with hypertension

>>22003876
nta, how do I know if I had lead poisoning?

I certainly feel hopeless.

>>22003920
Why?

>>22003920
I’ve never felt more anxious in my life. I’m an utter pawn. Everything will improve without me. I don’t have control over anything.

>>22003851
Do that and you risk opportunity passing you by.
>>22003866
>>22003876
What a hilarious cope. I'm not lead-poisoned and don't have hypertension.
Just accept that you have no valid argument at all, and merely flailing from one self-centered cope to another.
Also, I don't feel old at all, despite my age. More projection.
>>22003934
Oh well...looks like I utterly failed to make a difference here.
But at least I tried. You know, like making an effort?

>>22003866
So what's your excuse for your failure to launch, huh?
Apparently it's not lead poisoning.
So what happened to make you such a failure?

>>22003970
What opportunities? Society has collapsed. Build a business? Hahaha. The economy is getting worse every day.

>>22003979
No it's not. It's 1970 and all you have to do is show up with a firm handshake. Work three years, buy a house, and success will happen to you too! Stop being so negative and just work your entire life you silly peon. Donald Trump worked hard and now he's president. It can happen to you too, if you're not a lazy parasite that is. Go back to sleep.

>>22003924
The world in general seems to be moving in a direction where no positive outcome can be imagined. The people at the top of it are ignoble people and indeed the civilization itself seems to select for ignoble traits.

As for my own life, I’m just not particularly happy with how it’s gone or how it’s going and it’s gotten a lot harder to imagine a really good outcome.

I try to be positive but the past few years haven’t been good for me and it’s been more difficult than ever. I could never admit this in person however. I’m a “do what needs to be done” type.

>>22003996
I'm a pessimist too in regards to the future, but that doesn't mean you can't lead a genuinely good life rich in experience.

>>22003989
Well, are there any alternatives?

>>22004031
Car bombs going off on wall street every single week

>>22004041
>cars are now illegal, you WILL travel to work via govermant mandated public transport
Okay next idea?

>>22004004
It’s true. It doesn’t. But I can’t say I’ve done that. I’m not like a NEET or a virgin or anything but still.

SHODAN is coming

Literature was already ruined as an art form from thorough industrialization.
Every major innovation was met with fears that it would replace human capital and lead to masses of unemployment. This never happened. Even today, most manufacturing requires a lot of labor, skilled and unskilled. What innovations in industry have typically allowed is a mass increase in production, which is why we live in a society so saturated with consumer goods, the lowest of the poor can buy it. But cost of living has become so enlarged, that it means it's no longer economical to sell your consumer goods when on hard times. So it's unlikely AI will outright replace a profession. In the same way, blacksmiths never went away, but evolved into several other occupations. Steel workers, metal fabricators, draftsmen, etc.

Meatloaf is in the oven, stew meat is in the Instant Pot...and I have a moment to come back and check on my favorite manic-depressive slackers.
>>22003979
How about a private security firm, specializing in neighborhood protection?
Or selling mace, bear spray, or guns?
Or training people how to use their guns?
There are all sorts of businesses that can thrive when society crumbles.
You have no imagination.
>>22003989
I wasn't even born in 1970.
>>22003996
>no positive outcome can be imagined
Once again, lack of imagination.
>>22004041
Wall Street...talk about a 1970s mentality.
Big Business has spread far and wide.
And what, you don't blame Big Government for any of this mess?
Also, you can't bomb your way to prosperity...you have to replace it with something viable. You have no plans whatsoever.
OTOH, go bomb NY all you want. It's not like its feckless government will do anything about it. They won't even stop subway psychos.
>>22004043
Can't ban cars in small cities/towns; there's no viable alternative.
>>22004073
>gamer
Figures.

>>22004173
Then flex your imagination and tell me what positive outcome you see and don’t give us some space futurist BS that we all know no one believes in now.

>>22004073
Fuck Shodan NIBERU IS COMING

>>22004173
> How about a private security firm, specializing in neighborhood protection?
> Or selling mace, bear spray, or guns?
> Or training people how to use their guns?
> There are all sorts of businesses that can thrive when society crumbles.
> You have no imagination.
How when all the prices are skyrocketing? When there's no people who want to work? No people who want to buy? You say that like making a business is easy, but it's not.

The meatloaf is cooling, the veggies are cut up, and as soon as the Instant Pot naturally depressurizes, in go the veggies, for some nice beef curry gumbo!
>>22004233
There will be a lot less parasites.
People who have been slacking off their entire life, being NEETs or "revolutionaries" or whatnot, will find they have nothing to eat once the welfare train stops.
The human population of the Earth will nosedive, led by a vast decrease in the useless.
The preppers (who include the rich) will survive, and are well-armed enough to slaughter any rioters.
Hydrothermal liquefaction will convert the corpses of the useless into carbon-free crude oil.
Africa will be glad to be rid of outside influences, and will mostly remain tribal, which they are happy to be.
China and India will collapse under the weight of their overpopulation and bad governance. (Ghost cities, anyone?) They'll resume a medieval existence.
Russia, who stupidly decimated their Army with military adventurism, will splinter into pieces. Nuclear weapons won't be an issue, because they'll discover that the intelligence services of unnamed foreign powers have already exfiltrated them, leaving them completely powerless.
I could go on, but in short...the virtuous, competent, and hard-working will easily roll the deadbeats, parasites, and thugs, because brute force can always be defeated by force ruled by a mind.
Kind of a "fall of the Roman Empire" scenario.

>>22004335
Gun sales have been skyrocketing in the last few years. So obviously some businesses are thriving.
The ancillary services associated with that (which I mentioned already) are also in high demand.
Your customers won't be the people that don't want to work...but the people that still work, who need to protect themselves from the people that don't want to work.

>>22004349
I know nothing about guns. I don't have a gunsmithery at home. The point is that there already are gun businesses in the country. There's too much of them, the economy is collapsing, many businesses will close. So what do you think is going to happen if an unexperienced lad opens a business he has no clue about? That he will beat the competition in a declining economy? Do you see the reason why I don't have an own business?

>>22004343
>China and India will collapse under the weight of their overpopulation
Aren't the projections for China saying the exact opposite

>>22004386
Whose projections? Are any of them funded by China, perhaps?
China has real-estate debt that vastly overwhelms their entire economy, and their government's ability to paper it over.
https://www.google.com/search?q=china+real+estate+bubble
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/chinas-housing-market-slump-becomes-real-issue
Also, China is most definitely succumbing to the "middle-income trap":
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/chinas-ensnared-middle-income-trap
Plus, their population has begun to decline, meaning the average citizen is older, i.e. not working & in need of support.
Since they don't have a social safety net, that burden falls on the young, who are in short supply thanks to the "one child" policy that went on WAY too long.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/demographic-crisis-china-set-record-first-population-decline-1949
Therefore, many young Chinese are opting out, which they call "laying flat", "let it rot", and the "Last Generation".
https://www.insider.com/chinese-people-letting-it-rot-social-protest-trend-2022-10
Three guesses why the establishment media isn't reporting on this.
https://fortune.com/2022/09/01/quiet-quitting-anti-work-job-lying-flat-china-us-economy-global/

As this thread winds to a close...
>>22002524
>>22002632
>>22002983
>>22003002
>>22003051
>>22003387
>>22003406
>>22003497
>>22003504
>>22003565
>>22003596
>>22003607
>>22003635
>>22003682
>>22003724
>>22003802
>>22003972
...let's review the posts that couldn't be refuted by the lazy, complacent, conformist hylic slackers.
>>22003793
>>22003866
>>22003876
And what happened to lead-poisoning-anon?
Did he miss that, if he's right, he just got BTFO'd by someone with lead poisoning?
The worst thing is, he has no ready-made excuse for the crappy way he is.

this is a shit thread
lit is indeed dead
every anon so mad
reading this thread make me sad

>>22001130
I for one see a bright future. When AI takes writing jobs, writers will flood to professions that could themselves be replaced. If only a few more dominoes get toppled over job saturation will be so catastrophically bad (made worse by increasing population), that the market won't be able to keep up, wealth will accumulate to the top even further as even middle range businesses will go belly up and be consumed by the oligarchical corporations. Normies, desperate for the U.S standard of living, will then cry out en masse for help, and be given stipends to keep the current consumer cycle forever perpetuating.
I will benefit for not doing anything. I will get NEETBUX twice over.
If all else fails, Ill go live with my dad deep in the Colorado mountains

>>22004798
Hollywood writers just went on strike.
BAD TIMING.
They may never come back to work.

>>22004887
What the fuck are you talking about? Them never coming back to work is what I am hoping for.

>>22004798
Perhaps it's time to send the "guest workers" home.
Unemployed Americans need those jobs.