/lit/ - Literature

>>21989029
Read Spengler

>>21989029
Watching old video footage like this is so depressing. Generations upon generations of ancient and medieval Europeans dedicated their lives to building western civilisation only for their faggy modern descendants to squander it in the name of liberalism.

>>21989029
Speng Readler

>>21989044
vgh..

>>21989044
So le sad

>>21989044
Ah yes, the feudal 'fifties

>>21989029
The most punk rock book of the 21st century

>>21989029
God owes me timetravel

>>21989044
>we used to argue about which cities were the best
>no we argue about which cities are the most pozzed

>>21989044
When you realize None of the people responsible for building our civilization wouldve wanted it to go in the direction that it has...

>>21989029
> Look at these bourgeoisie and aristocrats guys! look! look! was everything just so much nicer back then?
> Yes, I know that the vast majority of humanity or even just Westerners never got to experience this sort of life and lived from penny to penny whilst their imperialist masters sent them to die on distant shores and foreign lands to fight in wars to enslave an unkown exotic people simply to exploit them for money that would never see the betterment of the people but, guys, this is Europe! not the peasants, not the factory workers, but these petite bourgeoisie, these upper-middle-class people, these capitalists, these aristocrats, this is what the past was like people! believe me!
Fuck, I fucking hate this meme so much. I get when clueless privileged boomers or clueless envy filled zoomers tricked into thinking the past was better so that they ask not for progress but regression (it's a trick, don't fall for it) but the /lit/erature board? we actually have accounts of what life was really like back then, the conditions, and what people yearned for (and were later cheated out of). This zoomer hotdog ads white picket fence midcentury bourgeoise capitalist """traditionalist""" (it isn't) view of what life was like back then? its a fantasy lived by none but the very top few.

Pozzed. Even the feudal lords of the Middle Ages had it better than us. The West has fallen.

>>21989047
>>21989048
>>21989053
you're either brown or using sarcasm to cope like some people with cancer may cope with black humor

>>21989029
>>21989044
Liberalism created that society idiot.

>>21989103

>>21989044
>dedicated their lives to building western civilisation
no they didnt. incredibly disingenuous thing to say

>>21989029
I don't get it. All of this still exists.

>>21989133
waaaaaaah
mama mama
sucking noises

>>21989103
most of those people are ordinary working stiffs bro

Meh, not nearly enough women I wheat fields...

>>21989029
parks, public markets, and ice cream all still exist you retard

>>21989103
You're an absolutely cringey-assed retard. No one, and I mean no one, will read that entire cringey post.

>>21989044
>only for their faggy modern descendants to squander

Like you?

>>21989044
Does anyone else hate this Wojak? It's always associated with some faggy ass whining. Usually some anime "feels" crap. I've been Pavlovian conditioned to hate it.

>>21989103
>people in 1955 all lived in perpetual squalor on the brink of starvation except for the aristocracy that oppressed them very much
Thank you for correcting the record.

>>21989029
Das Kapital.
>noooooo he's the reason why!!11
The only time Marx actually talks about immigrants is in a letter where he mentions that the ruling class imports them to sow discord among the plebs and force wages down.
>nooooo capitalism is based!!11
Capitalism is the ruling ideology and the reason why we are where we are now.
>nooooo that's not Real Capitalism, Real Capitalism hasn't been tried yet!111
Cope harder.
>nooooo people who read it are cringe
Correct, and another extremely well-designed psy-op by the ruling class, ensuring an amplification of all signals that show that trannies read it, to make sure that normal people do not even begin to approach it on its own terms

>>21989034
>>21989045
Spengler is a whiny fatalist. While that appeals to much of the right who are the same, be better than that.

>>21989103
>Clean plebs
>You conclude they must bourgeoisie
You are such a dumb loser holy shit.

>>21989029
I literally feel violated watching this, reminds me of nazism. I'm glad Stockholm is much more diverse now but there's still a lot of work to be done.

>>21989252
yep. le blackpilled zoomers are the most annoying people online by far

>>21989278
Unfunny parody.

>>21989103
Imbecile.

>>21989239
I know we joke but I've experienced similar beautiful days in certain areas of London. That was pre-covid though...

>>21989341
>>21989029
Why do white people like itt get so weepy and sad on encountering a poc? I thought you folks were not the snowflakes you used to mock.

>>21989103
The only reason so many brownoids even exist now is because of the western advancements in agriculture, medicine, and the products produced by economic advancements in Europe and america. This is why the bullshit about blackies etc not "getting their share" is rich. They are literally alive and in the modern world because of whites. They are owed nothing

>>21989363
Nobody is getting weepy on account of you. It's just sad to see nice things ruined and not recoverable. The fact that you don't understand that proves the point about you people

>>21989380
What things were ruined? Stockholm is still nice.

>>21989044
Yep, it's fucked up
I get the same feeling any time I see a great old building and turks or blacks in tracksuits loitering around

>>21989103
either a retard or a leftist or probably both

>>21989377
The only reason so many cows even exist now is because of the human advancements in agriculture, medicine, and the products produced by economic advancements in Europe and america. This is why the bullshit about cows etc "getting treated cruelly" is rich. They are literally alive and in the modern world because of humans. They are owed nothing

>>21989029
You can still do everything that is being done in that webm. People have always said the world is going to shit. Idealizing the past is like an inherent human condition

>>21989044
it's literally just a lack of fats. western civilization is still beautiful minus fatsos

>>21989029
Atheism is to blame and done Doubt it

>>21989391
This guy is a great case. He gets depressed whenever he sees a Turk or a black guy in tracksuits. He also spends time spreading memes about how he conquered the globe. Methinks he would have been a lowly pleb who would have been just as hated then as today by the elites. But no, he thinks himself a temporarily embarrassed aristocrat who is moments away from moments of glory. While he is sexless and childless and his elites has to import people to set things right.

>>21989404
Yes

>>21989044
behold the bioleninist seethe unleashed by this post

>>21989419
>oh yeah well [HEADCANON]

>>21989440
You can still go to Stockholm now.

>>21989419
Cope

>>21989440
>>21989452
Buzzwords.

>>21989257
Nah. Fuck you commie

>>21989477
keep enjoying trashworld

>>21989103
Even besides what other repliers have said, anyone with actual experience can attest to white poverty being incomparably less nightmarish (if still really bad) than diverse poverty. Only sheltered upper-middle class people think that people are literally all exactly alike when poor.

>>21989103
You sound extremely resentful.

>>21989044
Not a black or arab in sight. When Europe was European and not some globalized American vassal.

>>21989363
We want our own homes. You wouldn't understand.

>>21989103
Even if this were true (it's not), I would much prefer that a minority of people get to enjoy civilized life than it not exist at all. In fact, this is the exact choice humans are presented with.
Either you bring everyone down to the same level of mediocrity, or you allow a class of people freed from the toils of labor to create civilization, to dedicate themselves to great projects and works of art. Rhetoric like yours, despite its veneer of 'realism' ultimately leads to the levelling of man.

European civilization was great because of EUGENICS, because the poor experienced harsh Darwinian selection, because infant mortality was high, because the death penalty removed dysgenic individuals from the gene pool, because the more intelligent you were, the more children you were able to raise. Today, the exact opposite is true, not to mention the dysgenic effects of mass third world immigration.

>>21989062
your life and experiences are the exact hedonist retardation that OP is lamenting about, retard. you would be an outcast and a nihilistic troublemaker in 1955 stockholm, but you fit right in to the degenerated 2023 vancouver island

People trust and associate with people who look like them. This has been the case for hundreds of thousands of years and is a basic fact of human coexistence. Why do leftists and liberals have such a hard time accepting it?

>>21989513
You talk like you've been exiled.

>>21989527
Why do your ilk complain about gentrification and colonialism?

>>21989540
whats his "ilk"

>>21989514
You sound like a self hating masochist. Also it's funny that you think 1950s is "high culture" just because women wear skirts and prance around all day. You know how fucking stupid housewives are?
People who actually cared about western civilization already saw its "decline" well before the 1950s. Do you not understand that world war 1 was a horrendous return to barbarism? Did you not realize that the intellectual circles from the 1900s to 1945 saw culture usurped and ruined? And it was not because of "the negroes" or the a lack of darwinism, it was because bombs were dropping on their heads and to cite Andre Gide, "une bombe peut avoir raison sur un musée".
The entirety of littdrature mourns an absolute destruction of society. How many names do you want, how many are you willing to ignore? So yes people in 1950s were already as fucked in the head and destroyed as we are, except they wore skirts and suits. Is that difference all that matters to you?

>>21989514
peak cucked mindset jfc
>>21989526
>ignores every war and civil war in human history
but ok

>>21989103
If your viewpoint was correct, you wouldn't need to shout so loud and go to such great lengths to prove it.

Your parents could go to college for pennies compared to how much it costs for you. Your parents could buy a house on one income in a safe neighborhood and pay it off in 10 years. Your parents never had to worry about school shootings despite lesser gun restrictions. Your parents could eat food not poisoned by growth hormones and antibiotics, and shop at local family-owned businesses rather than at big-box retailers owned by international corporations who employ third-world slave labor.

You are a stooge for the very elites you hate, convincing the lower classes nothing was ever good and everything was always bad and to passively accept serfdom in our Neo-Gilded Age.

>>21989062
When's your third book coming out? You've been shilling this book for the last three years.

>>21989551
>people in 1950s were already as fucked in the head and destroyed as we are, except they wore skirts and suits. Is that difference all that matters to you?
Yes

>>21989601
Okay, then don't pretend like you give a shit about culture then.

There's no need to argue about such petty issues when catastrophic climate change will upend human civilization as we know it before this century ends, you know that right?

>>21989610
People who think Jews are hiring Arabs(with whom they're in war over territory) to rape their wives and loot their stores don't believe in climate change, anon.

>>21989551
I wasn't going to comment in this thread again but your post rings so true I had to say something.
> So yes people in 1950s were already as fucked in the head and destroyed as we are, except they wore skirts and suits. Is that difference all that matters to you?
The sort of people whom you are addressing fantasize about the American suburbs, an invention wholly of the modern age that atomizes society into communities of single nuclear family or even of just two people. A community that doesn't get together to do anything but protesting anything that might affect their property value. A society of superficial appearances. Their ideal is Levittown (ironically designed by a Jew). Fuck the homeless, so long as I got mine-my allegiance is with the capitalist oppressors if it means I can keep my job and front lawn. Is there anything more sterile? more lacking in culture? but this is what some people sincerely nostalgically yearn for. He is happy that he has to use a car to get everywhere and doesn't interact with his fellow man. He is happy to pay his mortgage. He is happy to throw his old away in a home after they have become completely useless to the capitalist machine. How is this traditional exactly? like you said, women pranced around in dresses and men went to work for their bosses in a suit and tie. How conservative!
Typical petty middle-class American mentality. A dream completely devoid of any substance.

>>21989607
>You know how fucking stupid housewives are?
Not as stupid as women today
>People who actually cared about western civilization already saw its "decline" well before the 1950s.
Yes, like Neoclassicists who said it peaked with Julius Caesar. What do I care about some obscure historians?
>Do you not understand that world war 1 was a horrendous return to barbarism?
That was war. We're talking about peace.
>Did you not realize that the intellectual circles from the 1900s to 1945 saw culture usurped and ruined?
Ah yes, intellectuals like Jean-Paul Sartre, who advocated for pedophilia.
>And it was not because of "the negroes" or the a lack of darwinism
It's not black people per se, but the attempt to have multiple ethnicities in one nation.
>it was because bombs were dropping on their heads
It may surprise you to learn that the atomic bomb was never used outside the two times in WW2.
>to cite Andre Gide
Think for yourself instead of parroting others.
>The entirety of littdrature [sic] mourns an absolute destruction of society.
Yes, which was destroyed by 1960s counterculture
>How many names do you want, how many are you willing to ignore?
7
>So yes people in 1950s were already as fucked in the head and destroyed as we are, except they wore skirts and suits.
Then, strictly speaking, they are at least equal to us, if not greater, in all matters.
>Is that difference all that matters to you?
There are more differences than just fashion. There's the idea of community and civility, which was omnipresent 70 years ago and absent today. There's the idea that being fat is bad. There's the idea that being a slut isn't good. All these things existed in the 1950s and not now.

>>21989643

>>21989044
>watches 30 seconds of an edited video for tourists
>thinks it's anyway representative of reality
God you're a fucking moron

>>21989656
laugh it up, bitch

>>21989643
Surely you can't be serious.

>>21989670
I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.

>>21989664
meanwhile, libtards guzzle propaganda like a storm drain.

>>21989029
The collapse of the bronze age by robert drews.
1177.
Legacy of rome by robert wickham.
Depending on if you look at it any indepth look at east coast amerindians from the early colonial period.

>>21989643
>Yes, like Neoclassicists who said it peaked with Julius Caesar. What do I care about some obscure historians?
Again what are you talking about. I'm talking about europe's reaction to a disastrous war(1914-1918). It was a moment, for many, of total catastrophe. Your historical illiteracy makes you a moron.

>It's not black people per se, but the attempt to have multiple ethnicities in one nation.

Stop being a hyppocrite. You don't mind that France and Italy had multiple ethnicities since the beginning of their unity as countries, you care about people with darker skin than you.

>Then, strictly speaking, they are at least equal to us, if not greater, in all matters.

I'm sure they had qualities we don't have, this doesn't call for reverence.

>Yes, which was destroyed by 1960s counterculture
No moron. Read what Paul Valery was writing in the 1920s about the west, "la malheureuse europe"

>Think for yourself instead of parroting others.

A citation is not parroting and you're mad you can't read french.

>>21989686
Spergler too but he's the first suggestion.
I guess some raceologists also touched on the subject with a more biological, so to speak, approach.

>>21989700
Europeans in European nations is not comparable to alien races adapted to other environments living in these civilizations

>>21989702
There might be other books. But I do not remember them today.
There was one about crisis in the 17th century that was for sure.
If you could ones on the malaise affecting late modern period india and china that'd be neat too but maybe you'll find that in spengler.
If I knew a book about the mayan collapse I'd reccomend it.

>>21989540
We don't. Affluent white female academics made that shit up. Half the people in my country want colonialism back. Lol

>>21989062
Punk rock as a genre died 2 decades ago at minimum

>>21989707
>alien races adapted to other environments living in these civilizations
you mean like a provincial Frenchman moving to Paris during the 19th century? Or is that chill with you

This discussion is going nowhere. Can anyone outline the kind of society they would actually want to live in, instead of yelling against the wind of history to no avail?

>>21989725
>Can anyone outline the kind of society they would actually want to live in
My only demands are that no one goes hungry and that medical needs are taken care of with no charge. I long for an emancipated society but I don't think we can be assured of what it would and function like.

>>21989700
>reddit spacing
opinion discarded

>>21989725
Unironically 1950s America. If you're adamant it never existed, then the ideal they showed on television

>>21989736
Sounds fair. The issue is, revolution is only possible when there exists 1) a coherent ideological alternative 2) financial and intellectual support from within the elites 3) a potential for violence and sacrifice from the youth. None of the conditions for structural change are being met in contemporary western societies, in fact most left-wing dissent is a mere distraction and serves the powers in place more than anything. Fukuyama was right, History has ended and a slow, boring decay is the most likely outcome for civilization at large.

>>21989700
>I'm talking about europe's reaction to a disastrous war(1914-1918)
I'm not talking about the 1910s, I'm talking about the 1950s.
>You don't mind that France and Italy had multiple ethnicities
But they all had the same culture.
>I'm sure they had qualities we don't have, this doesn't call for reverence.
Why should I not respect people who are better than I am?
>Paul Valery
He was living in France. Of course he thought things were bad.
>A citation is not parroting
Why don't you paraphrase and come up with your own words, instead of stealing others?
>you can't read french
au contraire

>>21989767
>But they all had the same culture.
LMFAO
>au contraire
Oh don't pretend.

>>21989770
>LMFAO
Yeah, laugh it up, bitch.

>>21989029
Finnegans Wake, unironically.

>>21989798
>le doomer jesus

>>21989029
Lol, strandvägen looks the same.
You should go there.

>>21989416
Don't forget trashy clothing and all the homeless depending on where you live

>>21989029
The good things we're supposed to be seeing in this image are leisure time, fashion, market stalls and the (relative) absence of ethnic minorities. The first 2 things have improved, the third is obsolete and the fourth is the only one to have declined.

>>21989103
>>Look at these bourgeoisie and aristocrats guys!
That's an impressive number of business owners. Why were people so much entrepreneurial back then?

>>21989991
Here's your improved fashion, bro!

>>21989044
That video is of a liberal society

>>21989996
Unflattering image of a drunk ugly person

>>21989999
Why has the definition of liberty changed so much.... sad

>>21990008
Because in pursuit of liberty, we created anarchy.

>make a post about how maybe things were better in the past
>immediately marxist pseuds come out of the woodwork to argue that it's propaganda and people were never happy actually and actually no one ever owned a house and living standards are higher than ever and and and

>>21989044
Liberalism is awesome, both the left and right just use it as a scapegoat for all their worst excesses.
The British Empire showed us the way.

>>21990003
It's the fashion of the 21st century.

>>21989257
>yooo actually Marx was a white nationalist bro
sure who gives a fuck when every left-wing party on the planet is the exact opposite? you people are so insufferable

>>21989257
>The only time Marx actually talks about immigrants is in a letter where he mentions that the ruling class imports them to sow discord among the plebs and force wages down.
You omit the fact that in that same letter he expressed his support for it out of a sort of proto-accelerationism.

>>21990008
>Why has the definition of liberty changed so much
>liberal means liberty
You need to immediately enroll in remedial philosophy courses

>>21989521
Vancouver Island isn’t part of the Vancouver metropolitan area. Purple prose claims another victim.

>>21989029
>muh 1950s!!!11
Shut the fuck up, you're literally an NPC.

>>21989029
>>21989044
"Your" "civilization", "culture", "people", and "society" have been dead for decades because of capital. Don't prescribe to any dumb liberal narrative, read the Bhagavad Gita and enjoy life.

>>21989996
Do they really think those thick layers of makeup make them look better? If they want to look good so bad why don't they lose the flab?

All the gay trannies who mourn for a suburb society of gayness should be banned from this board. Men of spirit want to return to the times when Germanics lived in huge palaces made of oak wood and hay.

>>21990091
They're British, they're barely conscious.

>>21990020
It's the longstanding minority of acerbic midwit leftypol troons on this board.

>>21990083
Marxism is great because every problem miraculously turns out to be the result of capitalists (or white colonizers).

>>21990094
Speak for yourself, emancipated faggot; real men want to live in forests when there was no agriculture.

>>21990096
meant to say vocal minority*

>>21990020
So funny, isn't it?
>Normie: "Life kinda sucks"
>Leftist: "Yeah I agree"
>Normie: "Seems like our parents and especially our grandparents had it a lot better than us"
>Leftist: "ACTHUALLY..."

>>21990096
they were here before you, electionfag

>>21990097
>the problem is the dominant social, political, and economic system of the past few centuries
No, that can't be it, right?
>>21990103
>Seems like our parents and especially our grandparents had it a lot better than us
That is, indeed, a dumb thing to say.

>>21990098
Be quiet, huntnigger. Just because you don't know how to invent agriculture doesn't mean I can't.

>>21990109
>>the problem is the dominant social, political, and economic system of the past few centuries
And yet somehow the things "reactionaries" long for are often particular to less than a century ago and highly compatible with capitalism (almost everything is, really).
We make reasonable demands, are shot down by leftists, and then they blame capitalism.
Also our social and political systems are not nearly capitalist enough.

>>21990091
Putting on make-up is easier than not eating like a pig maybe.

There's no should to be derived from an is. All /pol/ trannies btfo.

ITT

>>21990109
>That is, indeed, a dumb thing to say.
See? Like clockwork.
>Normie: "The 1980s deregulatory era was a disaster in the long-term"
>Leftist: "Yeah I agree"
>Normie: "We should go back to a time when unions were strong and corporations paid a larger amount in taxes"
>Leftist: "Absolutely"
>Normie: "Just like it was in the 1950s"
>Leftist: "REEEEEEE"

>>21989996
if only you knew how bad things really are

>>21990140
The same argument applies to everyone who wants to change anything.

>>21990144
Go back.

>>21990150
Make me.
>Normie: "College should be affordable"
>Leftist: "I agree"
>Normie: "Just like it was in the 60s and 70s"
>Leftist: "WAIT NO"

>>21990148
Nothing can be changed. Things are stagnant. When they change, it's because there was already a given tendency for that change to occur and nothing can be done about it.

Progress and Poverty by Henry George.
Shows how land monopoly makes everyone poorer and gives historical facts to proof the theory. Some examples in the book are: Roman empire, ancient Greece,and Ireland, China and India under British rule.
Nature's eternal religion by Ben Klassen. The part about the downfall of the Egyptian empire and India under Aryans rule show how the quest of power using nonwhites started the mongrelization of the countries with fatal consequences. He analyzed it incorrectly but you can skip the part that drives a completely absurd reason to why it happened. The part of roman empire and Christianity is just total nonsense to try to make the roman empire the mythos of his religion skipping the part of the submission of white peoples around Europe and slavement of it by the roman empire.
The Iron Fist Behind the Invisible Handby Kevin A. Carson. Shows how the decline in Europe is started in the middle ages with the creation of the states and how the states have been increasing their powers every year for 500 years and how capitalism is a state manufactured tool to control people. He uses historical facts to proof the theory. He had more books that give more insight on how Europe and most of the world is in a slope of tyranny and oppression.

>>21990155
I don't care.

>>21990160
I am aware you're a leftist, yes.

>>21990166
More conservative than you ever will be.

>>21990158
The cause is a lost cause. Based.

Lots of economic issues with "capitalism" could be resolved by increasing production of electricity and housing. The social issues with faggotry and chimpouts could be resolved by incentivising heterosexual marriage and segregation/repatriation (if you find that too extreme for some reason, you can at least stop immigration to slow the bleeding).

>>21990171
>the leftist thinks this is a good insult

>>21990181
What's wrong with faggotry+

>>21990181
What are you talking about? It's literally over.

>>21990184
Keep putting words in my mouth, parrot.

>>21990190
>the leftist thinks parrots put words into other people's mouths

>>21990194
Parrots can only talk in greentext, just like you.

>>21990190
Have something of substance to say, contrarian

>>21990180
>>21990187
Based defeatists. Just give up all hope already, this world is TOAST. Better luck next time.

>>21990197
>SQUAWCK! You're an idiot!

>>21990186
Generates disgusting people and ends too many bloodlines.
>>21990187
No movement lasts forever.

>>21990144
You're a retarded direction-brain. Here's your (You).

>>21990204
Based birdbro

>>21990206
Also for >>21990126
>>21990204
Aww, what a cutie :3

>>21990199
why don't you breed some white children to save the race?
>>21990205
> No movement lasts forever.
No irreversible process is reversible.

>>21989034
Spengler really failed to address many aspects of the Western civilization which make it different from other civilizations, technology not least of all.

>>21990181
>JUST NEED A LITTLE MORE PRODUCTIVITY, THEN IT'LL BE ALRIGHT I SWEAR
This is why I hate you productivityfags (capitalists and commies alike)

>tfw normies will never realize that the spiritual decline of the West became irreversible in 1312 when Philip IV and Pope Clement V disbanded the order of the Knights Templar
It's all so tiresome

>>21990213
"more" (or "better") technology doesn't make "western civ" any different from other civilizations, dumbass

>>21989416
It’s probably the ugliest and least noble civilization that’s ever existed.

>>21990210
Define "directionbrain". Are you just mad about leftism being treated as a category instead of numerous different brands with minor differences co-opting each other? No two people have exactly the same view to begin with.

>>21990219
>disbanded the order of the Knights Templar
Only one man can save us

>>21990216
I don't care about productivity. Cheaper housing and electricity help people at the bottom.

>>21990223
Anybody who uses "left" and "right" unironically is a retarded direction-brain, retarded direction-brain.

>>21989044
In the end, liberalism probably was just a clearing of the stage for what is really ugly within Western civilization, progressivism. The phase of liberalism of the likes of John Locke and Thomas Jefferson feels like a totally different culture in comparison to what we have now.

>>21990231
Yeah, help them do drugs and get fat

>>21990239
>The phase of liberalism of the likes of John Locke and Thomas Jefferson feels like a totally different culture in comparison to what we have now.
Not really, it seems, it absolutely lead to what we have now.

>>21990239
Yeah you can thank the jews for that

>>21990236
What do I call carriers of the memeplex that makes them take pride in faggotry and blames all the evils in the world on capitalism and white people?

>>21990236
Says the man arguing semantics.

>>21990248
My boogeyman is cooler than yours

>>21990239
Europe has been progressivist for three hundred years now
It started with 'Enlightenment'

>>21990250
Don't care lol, retarded direction-brain.

>>21990251
Nuh uh

>>21990252
Progressivism is very loosely defined here. Fascists were also "progressive", both in the sense of state-revolutionism and scientific rationalism.

>>21990251
Nah mine's the best

>waaah waah faggotry!!
sorry about your semitic mind virus bro

>>21990255
I think you do care

>>21989029
>>21989034
Thoughts on Arnold J. Toynbee’s ‘A Study of History’?

>>21989029
>1955
do you even need to go back that far?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT4lDU-QLUY

Also this is a shit thread.

>>21990246
>>21990252
It may have lead to it but I think it’s a mistake to equate the two. Impulses at least comparable to those we saw in the Enlightenment and immediate centuries (barring the revolutions) can be found in other historical examples. This tech hell world we live in even appears like something that’s hardly even related. Aesthetically, this doesn’t even look like the same culture.

>>21990221
Nobody said “more” or “better” until you did just now. Can’t you read?

>>21990261
> Fascists were also "progressive", both in the sense of state-revolutionism and scientific rationalism.
Of course they were and I despise fascists. Every movement that calls for "progress" is to be looked at with scepticism.
>>21990289
> It may have lead to it but I think it’s a mistake to equate the two.
Here's a quote from a 19th Century book about sociology
> Africa still has a considerable amount of strongly organized military nucleii, but that is not going to last; soon they will have to cease fire and succumb to what the Europeans call progress and Muslims the law.
> Impulses at least comparable to those we saw in the Enlightenment and immediate centuries (barring the revolutions) can be found in other historical examples.
Such as?
> This tech hell world we live in even appears like something that’s hardly even related.
But Europe was like that in the 19th Century already, see the picrel.

>>21989610
AI will get there first.

>>21990305
I’d say there are similarities during certain phases of ancient China.

>>21990309
That's all?

>>21990305
>Every movement that calls for "progress" is to be looked at with scepticism.
I disagree. Eugenics, innovation and governance by prediction markets are the way forward.

>>21990319
Cool opinion, faggot

>>21990305
I would mark the start of the progressive era as the 19th century exactly.

Boi do I love progress

>>21990320
Mud hut enthusiasts will be first against the wall

>>21990319
Masochism, begging to be struck dead by thunder bolt, embarrassing submissive behavior
>>21990320
This insult should be taken literally, sexual inversion and masochism go along together

>>21989029
It's odd that the "left" want to hand over Spengler to the "right". He is as important and influencial as Marx. I hope no one takes that as me assigning him to one or the other "side". I'm merely commenting that they probably just haven't read either.
So, Spengler's Decline is clearly a good call. For a "right-leaning" perspective, I can recommend you check out (in order):
>Decline of the West [vol 1 and 2] (Oswald Spengler)
>Imperium (F. P. Yockey)
>White Power / This Time The World (George Lincoln Rockwell)
Make no mistake, Yockey and Rockwell are biased. Commander Rockwell was the leader of the "American Nazi Party" and Yockey was an important component to pushing third positionist ideas (The people who don't fully grasp the worldview will refer to it as "far-right")
These books cover the decline (White Power starts off as an especially bleak one, regardless of your personal politics.) but also solutions to these declines.
I do not have any recommendations for a left-leaning perspective because to the general left, there is no such thing as: decline, dysgenics, etc. except as rhetoric against their perceived enemies.
There are pure liberal perspectives, but these are mostly done with way too much bias. This wouldn't be a problem (as per my recommendations above) but liberals pride themselves on their "non-partison" view and tend to delude themselves in this way.
You can see this with things like: The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, and so on. With that being said, those two would be a decent recommendation, provided you understand that they are interpreting these with both a presentivist lens and attempting to meet in the middle between what is politically correct and what is correct.
Anyways, I hope this was generally helpful. Good luck

>>21990332
Why don't you breed?

>>21990333
I'm not a masochist. I want power and pleasure and a long life.

Ahh, the soothing smell of the modern city

>>21990340
Have you noticed that as life expectancy has risen, what you'd call eugenics has lessened? It's almost like the two can't go along together. You're masochistic because deep down you know you wouldn't make the cut.

>>21990344
Growing pains. Work on your time preference.

>>21990305
>see the picrel.
The technological necessity for industrialization at a massive scale is to sustain ever increasing populations. The greater the population a system must support, the more efficient that system must be at taking natural resources and converting them for consumption (food, water, goods, power, information, etc.) The higher the population climbs, the more we will have to ravage the world to feed it. People talk about "Returning to nature" and other ecologically minded ethics, but the grim reality is that the only way for organic farming, lack of pesticide, and renewable energy to work is for there to be a drastic decline in population to what those systems can support.
When people suggest "eating bugs" and shit like that, it's simply the next evolution of industrialization. The next stepping stone of efficiency to support ever more massive populations of people with static amounts of resources. The idea of limiting population to manageable levels is so incomprehensible at best and abhorrent at worst the preferable alternative is to instead reduce the lives of people to cattle in a factory farm.
There is simply no way for the left side of you're pics way of life to exist with so many people. In that time, regular famines kept populations in control (humans cannot control themselves to maintain a stable population without exponential growth).

>>21990350
>Have you noticed that as life expectancy has risen, what you'd call eugenics has lessened?
Correlation is not causation, and I support positive eugenics (mostly).
>It's almost like the two can't go along together.
Sure they can, just encourage better stock to have more children.
>You're masochistic because deep down you know you wouldn't make the cut.
I think I would, I'm the smartest person I know, and quite physically fit to boot.

>>21989385
Ride the blue line, leave the tourist streets, and you'll change your mind

>>21989044
What’s really insidious about the modern era is the way it robs people of dignified living and digs up roots. I’ve been reading a lot of authors recently that have convinced me the best thing to do when you realize the civilization is crumbling around you is to return to the earth, to the field, to art, to poetry, to religion, and to roots in general and that was always possible historically but the thing about modernity is that it largely prohibits it. Either because of the nature of modern markets that makes the cost of land to high to acquire, the destruction of ecosystems by industry, the monopolization of land by large corporate conglomerates, and probably worst of all the loss of classical education and the ability to achieve a free mode of life, people are more or less trapped in the modern machine and sentenced to waste their lives on something they neither believe in nor want.

>>21989363
You are proving once again that brownoids do not have a capacity to understand, appreciate, much less create. beautiful things. Non-white people represent the darkest, vilest and dullest aspects of humanity.

>>21989610
Everyone assumes climate change will result in cataclysm that just wipes the slate clean? But what if it doesn’t? What if it just makes things like they are now but worse?

>>21989527
Swedish cities are literally, with no exaggeration, giving apartments for free to immigrants while the natives are priced out of their home of generations.

>>21989725
Obviously, they can’t because that’s like asking to imagine an alternate world. At best you can come up with fantasy scenarios. Otherwise, you can only point out what is but should not be. I could sit here and say the Middle Ages were the high water mark of Western culture, but it would be nonsense to say that the ideal today is something exactly identical to the Middle Ages.

>>21990363
> People talk about "Returning to nature" and other ecologically minded ethics, but the grim reality is that the only way for organic farming, lack of pesticide, and renewable energy to work is for there to be a drastic decline in population to what those systems can support.
Based.
> When people suggest "eating bugs" and shit like that, it's simply the next evolution of industrialization.
Boi do I love eating bugs so another gorillion people can be sustained! There can't be enough people on this planet, you know.
> The next stepping stone of efficiency to support ever more massive populations of people with static amounts of resources.
Brilliant idea. We need more people like you to help. You will live in 1 little square room in roof 2390 station C with your robot gf. You will eat bugs. You will be happy.
> There is simply no way for the left side of you're pics way of life to exist with so many people.
> In that time, regular famines kept populations in control (humans cannot control themselves to maintain a stable population without exponential growth).
Famines occur due to weather, not because magic.

>>21990350
>what you'd call eugenics has lessened?
Historically, there hasn't been that many explicit eugenics programs. And when you consider that the early 20th century was not that far behind the present, the opposite correlation appears.

>>21990335
I think the idea that there’s anything like a return or a death is antithetical to leftist thinking. How can a Democrat accept Caesarism? Or a “world-improver” accept that people will return to soil one day? They can’t.

>>21990318
Aesthetically yes.

http://www.carrollquigley.net/Lectures/General_Crises_in_Civilizations.htm

>>21990386
I don't know what you took away from my post but I'm advocating for population reduction/control not pod live and eating bugs.

>>21990338
He just said he's a eugenicist. What makes you think he would allow someone so undesirable to procreate?

>>21990365
>I think I would, I'm the smartest person I know, and quite physically fit to boot.
lol

>>21990416
I trust in the wisdom of nature.

>>21990425
It's meaningless for you to laugh at the prospect when you don't know me, you're just being reflexively dismissive to defend your assumption that supporting eugenics is masochistic.

>>21990350
>Have you noticed that as life expectancy has risen, what you'd call eugenics has lessened?
Your logic is flawed. You fail to mention a specific time line, citing an arbitrary claim. More than that, it simply isn't true. Eugenics is practiced, you just haven't realized it yet. Iceland is a fairly well known for their practice of eugenics. Abortion can be seen as a sort of self-regulating eugenics. Outside of that, in the last 30 years: life expectancy has dropped in places that don't practice it by state. (Iceland had an increase of +0.18% per year for the last two decades, for example.)
But to be frank, I do not think that the specific instances of eugenics have had an impact on life expectancy.
You know what is funny though? Race mixing has created an issue where neither parents can give their kid medical help due to a unique blood issue. So, if you look at it this way, we can see that dysgenics reduces life expectancy. Using that, we can infer that the inverse increases life expectancy, if we choose to compare it.
>>21990394
When you say "democrat", do you mean "supporter of democracy" or are you simply referring to an "american democrat"? I ask because republicanism is a subset of democracy and this sort of thinking can still support a sort of "return to roman ideas", technically. But only technically. I suppose you could find a supporter of republican-democrat ideals that would support a return to the weakest point in roman history, but they would have to have had a very small understanding of rome and how/why it fell.

>>21989416
And modern architecture, and third world hordes, and mentally deranged deviants, and homeless people shitting in the streets, and...

>>21989103
>lived from penny to penny
That's how we are living.

>>21989404
Cows aren't human, that comparison is not even midwit level.

>>21989029
>the hourly /pol/ thread
If you can't see through the never-changing rightoid propaganda, you're an npc and should go back.

>>21990428
Nature is a beaten wife.

>>21990469
>never-changing rightoid propaganda
I believe that's what Marxoids would call a "hauntology"

>>21990469
If you look at this video and convince yourself that it's empty propaganda and we haven't lost something you are ideologically deranged.
I am so sick of all you people who only care about your ideology and nothing about the real actual world. No amount of information ever penetrates your ideas.

>>21989103
This entire comment presupposes so much and knows so little. It is dripping with a worldview that can only view the world materially. I'd say it is bait, but Poe's law.
>Fuck, I fucking hate this meme so much
He's just asking about books on the subject of cultures dying off. You just threw up a ton of buzzwords that have no connect to one another. Try thinking out your strawman and critiquing it properly.
>>21990469
Wouldn't an NPC be the reactionary that can only attack their "enemy" by bumping the thread and broadly shitting on all involved? ;)
>>21990481
Can you elaborate further on this? I noticed that only one worldview rejects nature while pretending to care about ecology and I'm curious if you're in that camp or you have an interesting opinion on that matter.
>>21990485
Hauntology is not a political concept, retard. It's a commentary on human nature.

>>21990469
>candid video from 70 years ago
>ZOMG PRORAGANDA!

>>21990481
I don't care about whatever you have to say about nature. I like the animals, I like the plants, I like clean water and nature offers everything of that.

>>21990469
Dunno about you, but where I live, the moderate (socdem) and far left (explicit commies) also nostalgically reminisce about the 50s to 80s and talk about how the nation has fallen. Honestly, calling these sorts of things right wing propaganda only serves to drive people to the right in the first place.

>>21990501
Oh, and "where I live" is Stockholm, the subject of the "propaganda".

>>21990180
>>21990200
You can lose all hope that current system is able to sustain itself.
The cause for a better present and future is at your hands.
All books and authors that I presented in>>21990158 give different alternatives.
Henry George gives the idea that land should be of common property of the towns or communities where rent generated by land should be used by the community to solve the problems of scarcity for everyone. Also that overpopulation is a hoax and Malthus is completely wrong but promoted by the people in power to spread defeatism and non change in the societies.
Ben klassen doesn't give a correct solution but at least tries to give an alternative possibility that brings hope and a reason to do things and for that he should be praised.
Kevin A. Carson has many books on solutions. One of them The Homebrew Industrial Revolution gives an alternative on production in a federated and mutualist way with hand manufacturing on the center of it. That seems good enough to read about it and think about its possibilities. I think is good but lacks a reason.
I personally recommend Felix Rodrigo Mora because he gives great insights on the State oppressive nature and Spanish history on how the little Christian towns in Spain after Roman Empire thrived without a state and how the appearance of the state destroyed them in centuries. Many of it can be extrapolated to other European towns and communities destroyed by the state. He is making a manifesto on how to be saved from the madness of this system.

>>21990457
Okay. The majority of the replies to my post were so horrendous that I didn't even bother to respond but this one...this one is a special sort of "misses the point entirely". You get (You) my little friend, spend it wisely : )

>>21990509
I'm sure your recommendations are great and offer relevant solutions, but the sad reality is that people are more isolated and atomized than ever. I'm 25, living alone in a big city, and there is simply no practical way for me to get involved in changing the world, even at a local scale. I can become a better person, help my fellow man, plant vegetables in a public garden, start a book club and engage my peers with debates on deep ecology and whatnot, it will lead to nothing in the end. Nothing can change except my personal reaction to the way things are.

>>21990498
It's an easy stance to take, oh I love clean air, clean water, I love animals and plants, and I love taking advantage of all the systems and enabling those systems that destroy all of those things.
>>21990489
>I noticed that only one worldview rejects nature while pretending to care about ecology.
There's more than one I'm sure. "Nature is a beaten wife" I mean that nature is adored as wholly good and right yet taken advantage of at every turn. How many people "Protect natural spaces" by cordoning them off and surrounding them by industry to support ever increasing populations, how much "Nature" is farms soaked in chemicals and monocrop? It's sickening how fake ecologically minded policy is when it's superficial at best and actively harmful at most.

>>21990274
What exactly happened that took this away from us? And no cop-out answers like 9/11.

>>21990544
The internet

>>21990544
Wealth inequality and hypertechnology.

>>21990520
You could pursue a different lifestyle for yourself. You might not be able to change the world, but you might be able to change your world.

>>21990548
What would you define "hypertechnology" as? Any examples of it?

>>21990544
I think the internet and digital revolution really threw things into chaos, but it’s worth pointing out that people in the 1950s-1990s lived highly corporatized, professionalized, essentially meaningless lives. The difference is back then there was either stability or pay off so they got by without recognizing meaninglessness. They got married, had kids, had careers that kept them occupied, which involved physical tasks albeit heavy on the pen and paper, and had the luxury of buying a house when they had their quarter life crisis and a Corvette and a boat when they had their mid-life crisis. A lot of that has been taken away so people have to confront the reality and not medicate it with sex and toys or bury their head in family life or a business or career or whatever. That’s what I think.

>>21990544
Destruction of Christian morality, ethnic homogeneity, and the social fabric.

>>21990557
A good example would be stock trading algorithms. Entire markets and industries running on the feedback loops of market moves turning into stimuli for automated trading making market moves turning into stimuli for the same automated traders. Also, the modern "Grind culture" idiocy of buying and selling goods for no one. Drop shipping by buying items and selling them to other sellers over and over until the last guy dumps them in the garbage at a loss.

>>21990588
Christian morality is still in full force (unfortunately) and it's the main thing that distinguishes us from East Asia.

>>21990639
This. People think that just because people have started distancing themselves from the Church and the whole God thing, they're suddenly not practicing Christian morality anymore. It's really baked into the West, for better or worse.

>>21990523
>There's more than one I'm sure
I'm referring to the foundational worldview rather than the slight differences between the derivatives. Although, depending on how you want to talk about them, the foundations of liberalism and the foundations of marxist, we could say that there are two. If we talk about the modern variants, since I am talking about modern perspectives, they are fundamentally the same, even down to the financial question.
In fact, the big difference is that the marxist actively rejects it, while the liberal only rejects the parts that are inconvenient. (See: The separation of humans from animals, as one example. The acceptance of certain genetics, while rejecting other forms of genetics, as another.)
Many people would disagree with me on this, but the same people disagree with the idea that the american republican party is under the liberal umbrella term. That is to say, their understanding of political theory is limited, at best. I can't blame them, this subject matter is expansive and I don't claim to even grasp most of it, but I took the time to try to figure out the distinctions a long time ago because I was seeking to understand. People make weird, often incorrect, assumptions about me because of it.
That was not meant to be the tangent it ended up being. Well, with that being said, I understand what you mean and I agree with you entirely. On an individual level my wife and I do what we can, and that isn't very much. The highest level one can really do is attempt to work with your local parks department and spread general awareness of things like biodiversity and such. Unfortunately, a lot of damage has been done by people who care but never sought to understand, so they think "green = good", despite planting all those invasive species in their area destroying their local ecosystem.

>>21990508
Hello, lainon.

>>21989044
the mediterranean used to be where civilization was. then it shat the bed, and the then-savage northern lands grew up to be the new "civilization".
now the northern lands are shitting the bed - maybe the currently-savage southern countries will become the new place to be? might take a few centuries though...

>>21989418
How many of those smug asshole atheists are ''Jews''?

>>21990708
lol you and I both know all of the ones in that image are racially Jewish.

>>21990003
Every one of them would be a six or better if they were not obese gutter sluts.

>>21990693
>On an individual level my wife and I do what we can, and that isn't very much.
This is an understatement. I am confident that 100% of personal ecological choices are entirely superficial. For every full can of recycling you put on the curb hundreds of thousands of cans are dumped directly into the oceans and rivers. Business and industry create such immense piles of plastic waste in terms of packaging, every cable and button and bob individually wrapped, that no individual can hope to change his environment in an effective positive way. And there's no way for business and industry to abide by even modest ecological prerogatives without falling woefully below the productivity metrics they must meet to not just survive, but maintain the growing population of consumers that necessitate them.

>>21990141
Well, the practitioners of such don't do the discussion any favors by conflating the terms either.

>>21989521
Who better to tell a cautionary tale you fucking absolute faggot?

>>21989592
Jumping back into writing once all of the javascript and python scripts to automate my porn site are done.

>>21989044
You all keep thinking you would be a fucking knight in medieval Europe when in reality 99.9% of the anons here would be peasants...
>B-but peasants lived better back then!
Sure anon, sure...

>>21989720
Punk Rock bands in Vancouver now rock about trans issues and BLM... yes, punk has been dead for over 20 years, but the mindset of giving the finger to the establishment is still alive, barely.

The hipsters were the last outpost of resistance, now you're either a part of the establishment, or you're a homeless drug addict. There is very, very little room in-between for artists.
>you'd know this if you were an artist
>so few artists on /lit/

>>21990523
I consoom tenfold less than you

>>21990722
I mostly meant planting illegal trees and planting local flowers in locations hard for the mexicans to reach. But you're right. We did find out more than a decade ago that recycling, in a lot of major cities, goes to the dump.
We try to DIY as much as we can. Recycling via reusing glass bottles and jars as cups, and using larger glass jars for making our own alcohol, composting vegetable scraps in a section of my yard, that sort of thing.
Actually, on that note, throwing vegetables in a section of the yard has increased the amount of insects in that area and has made the bird population really bloom.
The problem is that outside of throwing the vegetable scraps in the corner and illegally extending the tree line, the rest of it is self-serving. It just incidental that it "helps", if it does anything at all. I save money on not buying alcohol, growing spices means I don't pay for them at the store, and so on. That wasn't the reason we started doing those things, but it ended up being a nice bonus.

>>21990750
It's not a pissing match. We're all screwed.

>>21990739
Faggot what do we have to say to get through to you?
Yes.
Yes.
1000 times yes.
Yes we WOULD take the good with bad.
Yes I WOULD rather die at 40 from some fuckin tooth infection, smelling of shit and tired from a life of slave labor if it meant my children would get to grow up in a peacefully ethnically homogenous Christian nation with a guarantee of the same life my father had and his before.
I would take that any day
ANY FUCKING DAY
Over living in a society where my children would become minorities and told to cutt their cocks off and blow their brains out by the cultural institutions they live under
I WOULD give up modern medicine
I WOULD give up a high protein diet
I WOULD give up tinder, and whiskey and weed and every other comfort of the modern world if it just fucking meant I and my children could have a secure and NORMAL fucking life
Living as humans had for thousands of years before

>>21989239
>parks
Usable and pleasant? Not anywhere on the west coast.

>>21990782
Faggots like you would rather cry about "returning to trad" like a bunch of complete pussies than actually support the writers who criticize modern life and attempt to wake people up from the sleepwalk they're on.

Fucking moron.

>>21989029
The Fate of Empires by John Glubb

>>21990782
I would rather die. If some hypothetical luddite vanguard party took power, I would devote my life to stopping them.

>>21990796
Are you naive enough to believe politics are real?

lol, lmao

>>21990806
They are real.

>>21990782
You're a moron (also 100% correct, objectively)

>>21990520
>{I'm sure your recommendations are great and offer relevant solutions, but the sad reality is that people are more isolated and atomized than ever.}
This is just crap
> I'm 25, living alone in a big city
You can make connections just like this. You are not alone
>, and there is simply no practical way for me to get involved in changing the world, even at a local scale.
Simply False
>I can become a better person, help my fellow man, plant vegetables in a public garden, start a book club and engage my peers with debates on deep ecology and whatnot, it will lead to nothing in the end.
Non solutions for you or for anyone. That's just a shitty list of things. You can do better
>Nothing can change except my personal reaction to the way things are.
True. Start by defining your core principles and goals and work on achieving them. They define you and the people that can join you.
>>21990555
Trips of Truth. Read him

You can read or watch Fight Club and Turner Diaries. They tell you how to change a tyrannical system to a reality you can create and live on.

>>21990639
Christianity saved Europe and its people of the disaster that was the Roman Empire and one of the worst things of it that was slavery. The fact that the first institutions the states tried to conquer and control were the chapels, churches and religious buildings that tied the towns and communities should tell you everything about their importance and the importance of Christianity. There have been a war and erasure of Christ words so that what we have today is the power's allowed and promoted "Christianity".

>>21990850
Christian morality =/= Christianity
>Christianity saved Europe and its people of the disaster that was the Roman Empire
It wouldn't even be relevant if it wasn't for the Roman Empire.

>>21990219
I, too, read The Mystery of the Grail.

>>21990703
The Med is still where civilization is. Northern Europeans are either larping as meds (le french/spanish) or soulless bug people (the rest of them)

>>21990871
This

>>21990905

>>21990871
>>21990911
Correct. The Roman Empire was so criminal that people have to react and have a revolution of values. While the high class we're debating if stoicism or epicurism where the right set of values the slaves and the low classes saw that Christianity and the words of Christ were good enough. Because the rapid change of the religion in the population the Roman empire had to do something. First was repressing and mockery but that didn't change anything. So then total state change of religion and imposed conversions. The elite and slavery didn't change so the decline of it and the hatred the elites by the underclass and slaves helped its demise. After that little towns and communities appeared following the words of Christ and they blossomed until new state forces decided to change that. One example is the Reconquista in Spain. Most of it were civil militias killing moors and expelling them.
>>21990919
Industrial states promoting their way of living and giving themselves some prizes. The chart doesn't even make sense. They divided laureates by current population that doesn't mean anything or is relevant. Also some of the prizes are a meme like economics or peace and isn't fair. Many countries helped in so many things worthy of a prize but because they competed with others that seemed better they didn't receive any. Also political intervention made sure non allied or non conforming societies didn't take part in it.