/lit/ - Literature

>>21979740
>IQ 84
literally in the name

>>21979740
He was always trash though.

>>21979740
Had kinda the same impression. He wanted to write his magnum opus and he just fell flat.

>>21979775
Look, I was very much under the influence of certain substances when I loved him. Same reason I thought Beat poets were the best shit ever for a minute. I regret all of that college stuff now lol.

>>21979740
Crime and Punishment. One of the worst, most plodding, most pathetic novels I've ever read. Rasky stumbles around in a fever for the whole novel and then confesses, how is this considered good? Even trying to look deeper, like his admiration for Napoleon who is a "great man", all the conclusion we are left with is: psychopaths who don't have a conscience can become great men, but if you have a conscience you should just accept a mediocre existence in obscurity. Unintentionally confirming that the will to power actually shapes the world while slave morality.... leaves people as slaves. Great work, Dosto!

>>21979740
Haven't read it but I enjoyed the wind up bird chronicle

>>21979809
Kind of bait but I agree. I'm more of a Zamyatin/Nabokov guy myself when it comes to Russkie Literature.

>>21979809
Crime and Punishment is a turd of a book, but the themes and ideas are low on the list of issues.

>>21979809
Retard alert.

>>21979785
You were doing drugs and reading Rick Riordan? What the fuck?

>>21979740
Necromancer. I read it in a single binge in childhood only to revisit it a decade later and find it shallow and prosaic

>>21979740
But seriously though, what was I supposed to think? 1Q84 was just a disconnected series of dream-like imagery to me, is he just spewing out random shit for people to interpret so that he'd look le deep?

>>21979823
>>21979825
Do you like any other dosto better?

>>21979838
LOL no. I thought you were talking about Murakami.

>>21979849
Brothers Karamazov is classic.

>>21979845
Why do people love Finnegan's wake then, when that is exactly what you describe?

>>21979893
I haven't read Finnegan's gape. Maybe I'll hate it too.

>>21979834
>Can't say a single word in the defense of C&P
Every time lol

>>21979849
>>21979857
TBK is better, but still massively overrated.

>>21979840
Not as good as Neuromancer I guess

>>21979775
Speaking of hacks kek

>>21979809
>psychopaths who don't have a conscience can become great men, but if you have a conscience you should just accept a mediocre existence in obscurity.
Why is this supposed to be a criticism of the book? That's one of the biggest blackpills you can swallow in life, I'd say it's worth being engaged with in literature

>>21979966
No, I do not object to soul-searching and self-revelation, but in those books the soul, and the sins, and the sentimentality, and the journalese, hardly warrant the tedious and muddled search. Dostoyevsky’s lack of taste, his monotonous dealings with persons suffering with pre-Freudian complexes, the way he has of wallowing in the tragic misadventures of human dignity – all this is difficult to admire. I do not like this trick his characters have of ”sinning their way to Jesus” or, as a Russian author, Ivan Bunin, put it more bluntly, ”spilling Jesus all over the place." Crime and Punishment’s plot did not seem as incredibly banal in 1866 when the book was written as it does now when noble prostitutes are apt to be received a little cynically by experienced readers. Non-Russian readers do not realize two things: that not all Russians love Dostoevsky as much as Americans do, and that most of those Russians who do, venerate him as a mystic and not as an artist. He was a prophet, a claptrap journalist and a slapdash comedian. I admit that some of his scenes, some of his tremendous farcical rows are extraordinarily amusing. But his sensitive murderers and soulful prostitutes are not to be endured for one moment—by this reader anyway. Dostoyevsky seems to have been chosen by the destiny of Russian letters to become Russia’s greatest playwright, but he took the wrong turning and wrote novels.

>>21979785
reminds me of the bookstore i go to.
>always bought exclusively classics
>list a few and ask if they have any suggestions
>dude shows me the beat writers

>>21979984
>Nabokov pasta
kek

>>21979988
You from California or live in a college town?

>>21979998
nope.
i'm not even american.

>>21979995
Heart-to-heart talks, confessions in the Dostoevskian manner, are also not in my line.

>>21979740
I had the exact opposite impression.

The scene in the finale where they're looking at the moon and we don't know if the characters are finally going to come together after all this time or by chance miss each other after all this time and effort to make this m oment possible was genuinely one of the most emotionally loaded and tense scenes I've ever read in a novel, and I thought was a worthy payoff on Murakami's meatiest book.

In general, Murakami is really, really good at setting up emotionally cathartic endings, even in his actually dogshit books like Killing Commendatore, he almost saves the entire thing with the finale.

>>21980026
I loved Ushikawa and the scene with Leader in the hotel, as well as all the realization about how much Aomame loved the protagonist.

>>21980000
Weird. I didn't even know the beat poets had a big following outside North America lol.

>>21980065
i guess he was a pseud or liked that, and for some reason thought it'd be a good suggestion for me.
first and last time i decided to ask the bookstore worker to give me a suggestion.

>>21980070
Reminds me of when I was in high school reading Brave New World and asked my English teacher for suggestions, and she fucking said "Ready Player One" lol.

>>21980117
It would be equally pseud if he was recommending snob-lit like
>Le Moby Dick
or
>Le Les Miserables
you're so afraid of looking cringe that you're too afraid to enjoy yourself.

>>21980129
Nah. She was a blonde milennial cunt barely older than me. Stereotypical American English teacher.

What state was this in?

>>21980227
meant for
>>21980177

>>21980026
yeah I bet you loved all the child rape too

>>21979834
bot response

>>21979767
solid attempt. I'm kind of disappointed no one bit.

I was an Arthur C. Clarke fan for the longest time. The city and the stars, Earthlight, Rendezvous with Rama, 2001, 2010, The hammer of god, all great. Even Glide Path and The songs of distant earth were OK.

The ghost from the grand banks? Can't believe it was by the same author.

>>21979740
1Q84 did this for me as well with Murakami. I remember reading his two short story collections and really liking them. There was a undercurrent of perverted fetish stuff in those stories but it was mostly in the background. Then I pick this book up and it's basically a 1000 page epic about schoolgirl rape. Kind of casts all of Murakami's stuff in a different light for me, and advances a theory on why he was so heavily promoted by Western (jewish) publishers.

>>21980227
Minnesota.

>>21979845
I don't understand how you got that impression. The story was coherent and straightforward, it made sense in terms of history, and the symbolism is pretty in line with any Japanese work which leverages cultish/esoteric themes. There are many reasons to dislike or criticise 1Q84, like the middle class pseudointellectual style (e.g. referencing Janacek, then using a character to mention how it's obscure music), weird but ultimately boring sex scenes, or how he writes characters that should be interesting in the personality range of milquetoast to verging on non-verbal autism, but there was nothing disconnected or random about it.

>>21980442
If you write off an author's best longform work over a 3 page sex scene with a 17 year old, something that's expressly legal in the country the book was written, you are spiritually lost, do not care about good /lit/, and have my pity.

>>21979984
Bless ya

>>21980668
I'm talking about the entire sub-plot where the spiritual leader guy rapes 5 year old girls for spiritual purposes, but then it turns out that this is all okay because they are actually raping him or something. You somehow managed to completely forget that one although it's a major plot point in the book

>>21979740
>Have you ever read a book so shit it makes you rethink your entire perception of an author?
Memnoch the Devil by Ann Rice.

I liked what I read of her up until that point, even if it wasn't flawless or anything. But that book sucked and ruined much of what was interesting and enjoyable about her work before.
Apparently she became religious again or some shit before writing it and couldn't help herself in putting her long winded theological musings within her most popular book series about flamboyant overly dramatic vampires. Not giving a shit how little it fit.

>>21980720
You're showing you misunderstood that subplot, it was two elements
>cult leader is sex-pest
which isn't even that spicy, that comes in the territory of most semi-realistic cult stories, plus
>the cult leader claims under duress before death that the little people cryptid species from the air chrysalis story were causing his compulsions

Which are very much not children, are intentionally ambiguous magical realism figment things escaping the story or pre-dating it or being revealed through it so it complicates the world, and is a claim made by an unreliable narrator whom you can think is very full of shit. In any case, it's emphatically not
>they are actually raping him

Work on your reading comprehension.

>>21980761
Literally you

>>21980786
>fuck I was wrong, abort abort, get an ugly reaction image
>”this is you!!!”
Cringe + L + Ratio + Probably prefers Mishima

>>21979809
The thing isn't "I am not a psychopath like Napoleon, so I should give up on life and suffer. ".... its more like "Who the fuck cares about the greatness of Napoleon...Goodness is better. Dont be a great man. Be a good man . Even if you suffer or become mediocre, you have still achieved your goal, and being non-great isn't so bad. Having a simple life can be fulfilling as long as you purdue goodness"... this book actually gave me hope. Raskolnikov had money, but it brought him nothing. But then, he changed. He wanted to be a better person and started gaining. He is in prison, but his sentence isn't so long (because people came to plead the judge...he was loved and cared for by the community), and he has a wife waiting for him... he beat Napoleon. Napoleon died alone and forgotten in prison while Raskolnikov will die in his home, being in care of his family and friends.

>>21979809
Oh, and there is a reason why his motivation to kill the two old ladies makes no sense, its to send a messaage that violence is senseless in nature. Its done on purpose.

>>21980826
Serious question anon, how do you handle every day life? How do you understand the intentions of characters in books, because it's clear you do, when you fall for tricks that are this transparent?

>main character is a lost literary type who misses his ex-girlfriend
>plot is just magical shit happening without rhyme or reason
>at least ten pages are spent describing the nipples and tight wet pussy of an adolescent girl uwuuu
>regular mentions to composers, writers and literary concepts that are not the most famous but just on the level below that so you feel smart for recognizing them
>after 1000 pages he realizes that he should probably end the "story" but he doesn't know how so the characters just go home

Not sure how you can rethink him when he has written the same fucking book for 20 times now.

>>21980836
>>21980839
I'll refer you to >>21979984 Dosto takes hundreds upon hundreds of pages, setting up the exact situation where, had Rasky been a sociopath, he would have carried on as if nothing had happened, but because of his conscience, we are treated to page after monotonous page of his delirium and fevered thinking. It rises to the level of masochism; Dosto revels in placing a pained soul in a pathetic situation and then extracting from this situation the last ounce of pathos. He seems to have been chosen by the destiny of Russian letters to become Russia’s greatest playwright, but he took the wrong turning and wrote novels

>>21980857
>how do you handle every day life
Three poops a day and two glasses of tea.

>How do you understand the intentions of characters in books
I pen authors daily letters and demand they explain their literary choices. They reply 3 out of 4 times after letter six.

>you fall for tricks that are this transparent?
If a fish never ate bait, from whence would he get free lunch? Ponder that for a bit, anon.

Is 'After Dark' as bad as this book?

>>21980888
His conscience gave him love and friends, and family. Things that stolen gold won't give you. It also gave him a chance of salvation in a spiritual way. Had he continued to walk that path of Napoleon, he would have fied alone in a ditch somewhere. He now has a woman he loves, a community that cares about him (all this in spite of what he did), and all he has to do is wait a few years. Yes, he did not become a king, is not seimming in riches, but has found his place in the world and has found / is on his way to find peace. Again, Goodness over Greatness, that's Dosto philosophy. You can be an average man and still live a fulfilling life. Uberman is overrated. Dosto's ideal counters the ubernan and even Nietzsche praised Dosto for it. The moment the protagonist stopped being selfish, his life became hard, but there is that light at the end. There is Sophie. The better you are, the harder the life is. Bad things do happen to good people, but we will get by, and we eventually find happiness. We just need yo persevere.

>>21980888
Oh, and everything Dosto is super kino. I read manga at that time in HS and could definitely see it as a manga, but it could also be a great movie.
Also, compare Raskolnikovs trial with the trisl from the Outsider by Albet Camus. Raskolnikovs Goodness almost completely spared him while Outsider protag hot the guillotine for being apathetic (compare what witnesses say)....

>>21979740
This is the only book that I actually regret finishing and it caused me a bit of a crisis as far as reading is concerned. I forced myself to finish it and after it I really questioned the wisdom of soldiering through what is difficult. Everything is Illuminated cured me, I came so close to destroying it about halfway through, but I returned to it a few days later and am glad I did, it was an amazing book.

>>21979740
bro im reading it rn, on book 2. its a good book made shit by all the sex and pervy shit, literally serves no purpose to the story at all. also way too much of a slow burner, a 6-7/10 imo

>>21979740
I recently read one third of Wind-Up Bird and had to put it down. I’ve read excerpts of his other stuff and don’t understand the appeal at all.

>>21981371
Same, Murakami made me annoyed at having spent so much time with his useless shit writing, that it put me off reading for a short while

>>21979740
I got hard every time he described the 17 year old's titties.

>>21981471
At least you're honest and not trying to say that shit is deep like >>21980903 and >>21980761

>>21979767
Read the title again

>>21979809
>it's too realistic and now I am mad

>21981169
After dark is one of the few pretty unreadable Murakamis. If you have the stomach for a long one, Hardboiled Wonderland is doing eveything it was trying to do, except way better, and if you don't, Sputnik Sweetheart speedruns similar concept but actually is a jam.

>>21980875
He's got 4 books he writes on loop
>I had a girlfriend and she's gone now. There is no magic. I am sad now :(
>A non-fiction interview collection with interesting people
>Short stories, 50/50 prototype versions of his full novels, 50/50 grab-bag wildness
>Magic is REAL AS FUCK and is INVADING YOUR MIND and PERMEATING YOUR WORLD because HAHA FUCK YOU, also you should pet some CATS and have REMOTE SEX with some HOT young thing with POOR communication skills!
Don't sleep on the non-fiction and short stories, Underground is really, really good if you're in for a hard read and the short stories are some wild shit.

>>21981169
"After Dark" is one of the few pretty unreadable Murakamis. If you have the stomach for a long one, Hardboiled Wonderland is doing eveything it was trying to do, except way better, and if you don't, Sputnik Sweetheart speedruns similar concept space but actually is a jam.

>>21980875
He's got 4 books he writes on loop
>I had a girlfriend and she's gone now. There is no magic. I am sad now :(
>A non-fiction interview collection with interesting people
>Short stories, 50/50 prototype versions of his full novels, 50/50 grab-bag wildness
>Magic is REAL AS FUCK and is INVADING YOUR MIND and PERMEATING YOUR WORLD because HAHA FUCK YOU, also you should pet some CATS and have REMOTE SEX with some HOT young thing with POOR communication skills!
Don't sleep on the non-fiction and short stories, Underground is really, really good if you're in for a hard read and the short stories are some wild shit.

>>21982352
Indeed. Sometimes you just need an author to take his worst tendencies to the extreme to realize he's a hack.

>>21979809
even as a dosty fan i think c&p is miles weak to the idiot and BK, im sure demons will surpass it once i get to it.

>>21979893
it's an anomaly, more of a puzzle than a book really, but there's also an aesthetic to be enjoyed in and of itself regardless of the actual plot or recounting every minute reference. Knowing and embracing both aspects is key to grasping its dreamy intrigue.

>>21983508
Indeed. I sort of put it in the same category as Ulysses.

It was an enjoyable read and people who pick up a book written by a japanese author and then act put off because there’s weird pervy shit or the plot being a little silly are faggots

>>21980026
Ikr??? I literally got chills from that scene

>>21979809

Dr Jordan B Peterson said it's the greatest novel of all time.