/lit/ - Literature

my diary desu

>>21969486
18-30 may be prime for a woman but are they really prime for a man? Wouldnt 30s or 40s be a man's prime.

The Count of Monte Cristo

>>21969486
I have a friend who is currently, I believe, wasting ‘poignant moments of night and life’ by staying in on weekends. He never likes to go out to bars in the city, which is only a short taxi drive away. He has a good job, works from home, but his constitution won’t allow him anything more than 2 beers a night. He’s a physically weak nerd type, he won’t mind me saying. I tell him there’ll be plenty of time to stay in on weekends when we’re thirty (we’re 25 rn). He did go to university whereas I did not, but he wasn’t outgoing socially (one of his big regrets), and he considered doing a phd because he wanted to have another go at the social environment of a university. What do u make of this? I like to go out on the weekends and have a few drinks and meet girls and dance, he won’t have it, says he doesn’t like dancing. I think it’s kind of grotesque for single guys in their mid twenties to stay inside and watch television on Friday and Saturday nights when they could be out socialising.

>>21969514
Socializing is the first thing that came to your mind? fag normie untermensh drone

>>21969514
>He’s a physically weak nerd type
How does one socialise when you're very much this type? You're so different from the kind of people who hang out at bars and stuff, it's like they have to accommodate you and you wind up being a mood killer.

>>21969527
grow up

>>21969514
that's pathetic normalfag bullshit is cringe.

take that retard with you on weekends and if he doesn't go tell him to shut the fuck up and stop regretting about not "socializing" because he is doing it to himself.

>>21969514
You know, there is more to life than drinking alcohol.

Why does this question appear daily on /lit/?

All you're going to do is waste your 30s as well, by consuming nothing but the mopiest and most self-centered books. And what will you be left with at the end of it?

If you've wasted valuable time, then make the most of the time you do have - for example, by reading good and interesting novels because they're good and interesting, and not because they will validate your self-pity.

>>21969486
Your chances are never over even if you are 50 or even approaching 60s. Look at Brad Pitts and DiCaprios girlfriend age. Women wouldnt stayed with them for more than a month, if they had no personality to contribut to after sex talk. Believe me on this.

>>21969588
>If you've wasted valuable time, then make the most of the time you do have - for example, by reading good and interesting novels because they're good and interesting, and not because they will validate your self-pity.
because they want to be special and not like those "nromalfags" who take life lightly. this self-pity gives them a superiority complex over those mindless "normalfags" and their lack of self awareness.

>>21969578
that makes me ask: what options would one have if they don't drink alcohol? most young men want to go to bars or get drunk/high when they hang out, so what do you end up doing if you're not into this? there's not many non-drinking related social outlets for adults

>>21969527
>normies are le dumb, i am le smart
kek, imagine still coping with this past 27. normies drink deep of the cup of life, we masturbate to cartoon women and seethe about drag queens

>>21969599
filmmaking, painting, photography, mountain climbing, cycling, camping etc.

there's like million communities like this on internet and irl. i can't speak for others but photography community is pretty chill and accepting if you're not retarded. literally just hit up few hobbyiest photographers like from your area for photowalks and few of them will show up.

>>21969514
Because he hasn't been conditioned to feel good from socialization you peabrained fucking lush, not like you who obviously experience some kind of positive reinforcement for dressing up and going out every night that you do. Retard. It's fine if your type enjoys life, but you don't have to be so thick about it

>>21969621
>Retard. It's fine if your type enjoys life, but you don't have to be so thick about it
haven't you read that his friend "regrets" not going out? his friend is a retard

>>21969588
>>21969598
Excellent points

>>21969617
im taking photooooos i'm a normal human being

It's hilarious watching americans larping their country isn't some seething libidinal fuck vortex. just go mountain climbing if you're a dysgenic male bro. Fucking lmao.

>>21969514
Are you a physically weak nerd type? Are the people you go out drinking with?

>>21969623
They're both retards, they attract each other. How could someone who isn't loved in their given state not go out with me? it is a mystery aaaaaa better ask the big brain literature board

>>21969614
most normies are fucking braindead and havent done any reading since high school when they were forced to. they simply don’t need to learn new things of life has worked out for them. they are definitely a 100x happier than us though lmao

>>21969629
I am not a mutt but keep seething. nothing beats the euphoric feeling you get from street photography, when you stop existing for a time period and you actually feel like you're truly "in the moment", you flow like a bee, no thoughts just aesthetic intuition and walk like music.

>>21969486
The novel I'm working on begins with a man who stops using the internet because he's been hopelessly addicted to it for years. It will have a lot of criticism of technology itself, but also the weakness of people who fall into the trap of easy, slothful use of technology instead of using it for something productive.

>>21969486
What about a book in which someone was forced to waste their prime years, not of their own volition? Manipulated or directly forced.

>>21969501
They were prime for both.
You are normalizing the current social model.

>>21969640
I'm sorry you're still like this.

>>21969643
enjoy your art, I've got a knack for it myself, but we'll still be subhumans, always and forever

>>21969486
Saint Augustine's Confessions. Part philosophy, part biography, part prayer, all /lit/. It's in the literary cannon, the theology cannon, and the philosophy cannon for a reason; one of the best works in the Western tradition.

I feel like its one of the best responses to 4chan feels around and am surprised it is not brought up here often. Beats the fuck our of Bronze Age Mindset lol.

>>21969640
Similar to how dog is happier than man. Ignorance is bliss.

>>21969629
>seething about people taking photos
You're retarded lol

>>21969656
Older translations are free but more dated linguistically. Some annotations are more philosophy or more religion focused in various editions. Augustine is probably the most famous philosopher on free will, but suprisingly his thinking isn't fully laid out here the way it is in the dialogues and other works.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3296/3296-h/3296-h.htm

>>21969486
These are the wrong questions to ask OP. You should ask for books about people who wasted their youth but turned it around in their 30s and 40s, or about late bloomers who made it and achieved goals later in life. No point wallowing in shared misery.

>>21969677
Interesting. The modern West does sort of have that Late Antiquity, the Roman Empire is about to collapse but hasn't quite yet, feel. But then again the Roman Empire had many false collapses (Aurelian, the Eastern reconquest of Italy, etc.).

I've always found it bizarre how early church writers are way less supernaturalist, superstitious, into magic and demons, while also being much more philosophically minded than contemporary ones (at least the loudest ones).

>>21969486
Lmao 20 year olds are still children who can barely consent

>>21969486
even worse than wasting time is destroying your health

Life is too short and precious to spend it in a state of misery and angst. You may think that these feelings are somehow noble, artistic, or deep, but they are not. They are destructive, harmful, and self-defeating, robbing you of the ability to find and create your purpose. Pursue your dreams, express your creativity, and make your desired impact on the world. Don't let anyone make you feel guilty, ashamed, or weak for wanting more out of life, or feel that you are dependent on others and a slave to circumstance. You have the power to change your life for the better. You have the power to overcome your challenges, to learn from your mistakes, and to transform your pain into wisdom. Now is the time to awaken and discover what powers you forward.

>>21969514
>Drinking and chainsmoking with roasties and meatheads so you can have a one night stand ,maybe a brawl or two ,and all this to feel like i ''fit in''.
I have nothing but regrets.
Going out is cringe.
Friendship is cringe.
Sex is cringe.

>>21969718
I believe everything you say but finding the will the act in accordance with it seems impossible.

>>21969719
Friendship isn't cringe if your friendship includes being candid with them.

>>21969599
Your social cohort is not an exhaustive survey of men in general

>>21969501
Youth is always better. By your 30s you could already be dealing with things like balding, a bad back, etc. Things a young man isn't concerned with.

>>21969597
>just be a household name, bro

>>21970192
kek

>>21969588
I think the problem people face is that value can only be identified in retrospect. If someone feels they’ve wasted their life, the obvious thing to do is to stop wasting it but how exactly they do that often isn’t clear, particularly if they have a sense that what they want most is now off the table because of the past.

>>21969645
This is an experience of so many people.

>>21969486
Sorry, wouldn't know, I spent my 20's getting a good education and excelling at it, leveraged that into getting a job I like very much, made some incredibly strong new friendships and nurtured those I've had from childhood, fucked exactly 25 women before settling down with my current gf, and read some 90% of Bloom's canon.
I have no regrets, and I am not particularly fearful - should there be one fear, it would be that my life would stop being as great as it is, but I see no reason why that would happen.

>>21969501
30s and 40s definitely are prime for a man but you don’t want to be just starting in your 30s. Men have to do things, and ideally, you’re doing in your 30s something you started or set yourself up for in your 20s. Once you turn 30, something changes and it suddenly feels like it’s too late to start, probably because there aren’t many historical examples that have done this that you can look up to.

>>21969683
Depending on your chosen pursuit, it might be hard to find these. It’s hard to find authors who did this, for example. Most will have had some sort of success while they were young.

This is what’s depressing when you get older. You will find examples of people who achieved success after 30 but there’s very often some call back to something from their teens or 20s. Politicians were soldiers. Writers had submitted some poems to a student publication. Painters had enrolled in a school at 28. That sort of thing. There are few examples that had nothing to point to before 30.

>>21970179
>be me
>hit 30
>chronic hemorrhoids
>bad knee (unironically gets worse in cold/humid weather, like some sort of New England sailor of the 1880's)
>excruciating back pain if I sleep in a slightly wrong position
>erections aren't as strong anymore

All you young bucks need to realize, that for 20.000 generations, man and his ancestors bred at age 13 and died at 27. You weren't designed to grow old, and all the adaptive things that help you survive when you're young, like pain and more pain, become processes without a purpose, gone haywire and used to torture you.
Enjoy your youths anons, please. Do it for an oldfag.

>>21970237
Human development and trajectory doesn’t change just because we don’t mate at 16 anymore and there are historical periods where their life spans were similar to ours. The upper classes always had long lives like we do.

Can’t Hurt Me

I can sympathize with the feeling. Unfortunately, I’ve not found any books. There’s absolutely no doubt that you can turn your life around, but whether you can really achieve anything remarkable I don’t know. I’ve looked for examples of someone who set out on a vocation at or after 30 but I’ve not found any examples.

>>21969486
Brideshead Revisited.

Basically exactly what you want.

>>21969718
>>21969730
I think the thing about this advice is there are a lot of guys like OP who realize what they want, but they now feel like they had to do things differently for what they want to be a possibility so to just simply continue to pursue that goal feels hopeless and identifying a lesser goal feels like a failure or faces the same issue. Of course, you don’t have any choice but to march onward, but the feeling is being trapped between failure and failure.

>>21970310
> written by the son of a publisher who published his first story at 23

>>21970214
Yes, this is true for me. Just this morning, I went to the gym, and at my gym, they were having a chess tournament for children. It made me reflect on growing up poor and not having access to various resources and opportunities to help make myself into a more well-rounded person. I wanted those things because I *knew* that it would allow me to avoid this rut, so to speak, that I'm in now. It's actually quite difficult for me to look past this, even though I know that I could easily just work on some skills and begin improving myself.

It's like, I simply cannot become anything because I am not already something. I have been nothing for so long, and it feels like trying to build a house on no foundation, and nothing will stick or stay in place for something else to be placed on top of it. It always feels like some sort of fraudulent act when I am around other people who seem to have had these things. I have been going out, but it doesn't appear to be helping (yet. It's only been about 2-3 weeks of trying to be out more often).

What I wanted the most is no longer available, and what's left doesn't really seem appealing in an absolute sense. It's appealing sometimes, but that sometimes isn't enough for me to push myself to become something better. I am not sure what will become of me.

>>21970325
Yeah, this is the mentality. It's hard to push forward when what you want is behind you.

>>21969621
>Because he hasn't been conditioned to feel good from socialization you peabrained fucking lush
to not feel pleasure from socialization is either the result of conditioning or mental abnormalities. not the opposite. to feel pleasure from socialization is natural and inherent to our species

>>21970374
you can desire love and companionship and still have been conditioned to feel like shit and inferior around others, retard.

GO
BACK
TO
COLLEGE

>>21970226

>Once you turn 30, something changes and it suddenly feels like it’s too late to start

Men are inherently driven into their greatest deeds by this god awful feeling.

>>21970381
College only makes sense if you aspire to be an academic or a certain type of professional, and even then those only work out about half of the time. If you aspire to be a scholar, real learning has left the academy. For everyone else, there was never any obvious reason to go to college in the first place.

>>21970431
That’s true, but what’s questioned is whether the drive is enough or if some tangential deeds need to have already been achieved as well.

>>21969501
Such an insipid argument when people don't specify prime of WHAT. There is no such thing as "prime of a man," that's an incomplete/inferred statement. There is the physical life, which obviously peaks way before 40, there is a mental life, emotional life, intellectual life, etc, and they all peak at different points. It comes down to what you value. That's why, for example, the trope of the jock who peaked at 20 exists, because such a man values physicality above all else.

>>21969738
If more people experienced this, the world would be a better place; sadly, everyone is fake and gay.

>>21969738
I tried to be candid with my college friends and that’s when it became clear that they only liked me if we drunk or fun. When the chips were down, they wanted you to care about them but didn’t really care about you.

>>21970358
Well, we should br clear here. What I’m talking about is not something that is behind you. What I’m talking about is something that would be in front of you, if you had something else behind you. I’m thinking here of someone who wants to achieve x and it would be realistic to achieve x at 40, but more realistic if they had done y before 30. Get what I’m saying?

>>21970381
This anon, but make sure you're ready for it. You're throwing yourself into the crucible once again, you don't want to go in being nothing but slag.

>>21970338
I think that when it comes to becoming something or achieving something, the specifics of that something matter. I’m absolutely convinced that certain things will still be achievable even if you had done nothing and received nothing until you were 30 but for other things, I’m not so sure.

>>21970381
lmao

>>21969501
I must believe this

I spent 20-30 hiding inside wasting my time

The Outsider, Colin Wilson

>>21970498
Yes

>>21969486
We are always already "wasting" time and it's only when we're not fully immersed in ourselves as selves, doing an activity that takes us out of introspection, that we're aware of time.

A third of our lives is already off the table from biological necessities like sleep. Couple that with work or school and the picture of course is grim. Everything is fucked. There is no solution except not to think about it.

>>21969486
Most of what society at large (me included) does is a waste of time.

>>21970374
But socialization in a lot of cases seems fake and gay, you can't have a honest discussion with most people.
So what else is there, get drunk and hangover afterwards? I've done that a few times already, don't care for more of it.

>>21970221
1/10, made me chuckle

>>21970433

Makes a lot of sense if you're tryna bang chicks. If I was financially in a position to go to college now at 30 I would. Might yet, idk.

You think you are free by isolating yourself from the world, but you are only creating a prison of your own making.

>>21970179
>Back pain
>Balding
>Things a young man isn't concerned with.

LMAO. Best joke I've heard all year.

>>21969501
>Wouldnt 30s or 40s be a man's prime.
Not if you were doing jack shit in your 20s lmao
All that prime shit is just mgtow cope anyways

>>21969486
Dude speaking from my own experience there is nothing you can do for that kind of regret other than suck it up and make a start on living the rest of your life to the fullest.
I left high school thinking i was going to make it in the music scene and be rich and famous. Became a drug addict instead. Was a total fuckup loser by the age of 20. Got clean and spent ages 20-23 living in a doss house and going to NA meetings and reading a lot. Got off the dole and got a job working security. Got stuck in that until i was nearly 32. There you go, the so called "best years" of my life thrown away being a druggie, bumming around on the dole and then working night shift for years.
Nothing to do but tie a tourniquet around it and start moving in a better direction.
On the plus side if got some raw material for stories out of it, pic related.

>>21969738
I've never met anyone who likes me when I'm candid and likely never will.
>>21970237
>died at 27
No. This is a pop-sci stat that derives from numbers that include infants, lowering the average age of death signicantly because children often died. A lot of coutries even to this day don't name a child until they're 1 for this reason.

While they died earlier, it was likely ~50 and not 27.

>>21970451
sadly my intellectual prime has already been reached, and im not even 25.
im only gonna get dumber from here on out.

>>21972683
Honestly, that is an interesting and exciting life until 23 at least. Most will not even have that. You were actually somewhat lucky in the end.

Did you get inspiration for your time working in security as well?

>>21972700
Actually now that i think about it i haven't used my years working security in my writing at all. Maybe that can be something for a future book.

>>21970660
we wait for the AI sexbot revolution

>>21969640
>they are definitely a 100x happier than us though lmao
My experience is that they really aren't and that their lives are constantly full of stressful drama that continuously worries them and they can't bring themselves to be able to enjoy sitting down an experiencing the beauty of things unless they have some specific excuse to that sounds good to and will impress other normies.

>>21969514
Beer is neurotoxic. A single serving of alcohol is neurotoxic. Alcohol is worse for you than opiates and stimulants. I drink one beer, I get a nasty headache. If I drink more than one beer, I wake up with nerve pain in my hands. This effects everyone the same by the way. Most people are just NPCs and can't discern even what a headache is. Hopefully your friend cuts you out of his life. You sound like a bad influence, one that will drag him to the depths of mediocrity. I invite you to kill yourself.

>>21969719
You ever watch Come and See? I like that one German that says he regrets nothing even though he's about to be executed. I can't imagine how cucked and pathetic you must be to "have nothing but regrets". I don't have any.

>>21970237
>>excruciating back pain if I sleep in a slightly wrong position
same lol
it sucks so much

>>21970381
with what money

>>21972939
>Alcohol is worse for you than opiates and stimulants.
Stimulants will absolutely fuck up your brain, don't sell them short. Opioids are mostly safe for the nerves, but they fuck up your endocrine system, so it's pretty much a moot point, as pristine nerves in an endocrine-wrecked body aren't really going to work that well.

>>21970338
>It's like, I simply cannot become anything because I am not already something. I have been nothing for so long, and it feels like trying to build a house on no foundation, and nothing will stick or stay in place for something else to be placed on top of it. It always feels like some sort of fraudulent act when I am around other people who seem to have had these things. I have been going out, but it doesn't appear to be helping (yet. It's only been about 2-3 weeks of trying to be out more often).
Nothing to say but that I share this feeling. It seems pointless; the failures and privations of my childhood will render any triumph, if every actual, inferior to those who were born into it. And even then it's unlikely I could ever manage it to start with. The world we live in is simply configured in such a stultifying, ossific way because it doesn't really need people like me to get on.

The main thing I try to think of to make myself feel better is that it's unlikely if I had had a good life that things would be much different. Inherently life is a chore at best and a hell at worse; we should be thankful to have been born in advanced enough times to while away our time, if not pleasurably, than at least unthinkingly. Far better than being conscripted at 18 to be crippled for the rest of your life! But then sometimes I'm jealous of the accidentality of former young deaths. I've not the courage to kill myself, but perhaps being placed into a situation where such a death came naturally would've worked?

I wasted my 20s, did not even get a degree and will be heading to university for the first time, just as I'm about to turn 29. At least it's free, but I am still a touchless KHV babyfaced manlet. I feel like anxiety will devour me.

>>21969486
The Tartar Steppe

>>21970179
>mfw 30 and balding so bad I can barely hide it

>>21969527
lmao, love you "I was studying the blade" types who are just terrified of girls.

>>21973650
L-l-love as in you find them cute? Asking for a friend haha

>>21969501
Your 30's are when your choices in your 20's catch up with you. If you made a bunch of dumb choices for short-term gratification and neglect your health, it's where you experience immense decline. You're still a wagie economically, renting or living with your parents. You have no education. You have no women. You watch your body degrade, ache, and slow down. It's still possible to turn things around in your 30's, but it's a hell of a lot of work - especially compared to the extremely minimal effort you have to put in during your 20's where you just coast by and wind up in a great position by 30. But if you do manage your 20's well, your 20's will be a false-prime and you'll live your best life in your 30's. It's the age where you're respected both as a younger person and as an experienced professional. You'll have plenty of assets, maybe a business, and certainly decent income. You'll know your way around women, have all the things they find appealing, and not put them off with an age-gap. You'll also likely make some major life-decisions where you have the power to really control your destiny. Family, wealth, politics, intellectual pursuits - all of these are things you'll be able to think about seriously.

>>21970221
based fulfilled genius successful socially competent manwhore.

>>21973678
>You'll know your way around women
Virgin who kissed 2 girls by 28, it's over for me

>>21969501
Men have a very short prime age. It's somewhere between 28-32. Only 4 years. A woman's prime is 16-32.

>>21973997
No it's not. I said it's not too late even if you're in your 30's. Just keep fighting and stay on a course where the future is better than the present.

What is there to be wasted? Every day I spent doing nothing is a day I don't regret. The idea that you are alqays supposed to do anything because (no reason) is a toxic cancer.

>>21974067
I can't talk to women or people outside of a work environment (it's my job). Getting matches on apps that just ghost after a few messages just rubs it in. I'm not a normie and I'll never be one no matter what I do to try and improve my situation.

>>21969514
>going out to bars
>meaningless conversations with normalfriends
>while ingesting toxic depressive substance
>while the most vapid music imaginable plays
>while most of the people are there to have a one night stand with some vapid whore and never even question if that actually fulfills them
If you really think about it this is just indoctrination of hollywood + conditioning that leads to one thinking that this kind of activity is of any worth

>>21973678
I know you're trying to be helpful and consolatory about this but you've managed to somehow depress me even more. And not the kind of depression that would eventually energize me to take control of my life. You've crystallized it almost perfectly that life is pretty much decided for you from the start. "Made a bunch of dumb choices": how do you think someone comes to make those "dumb choices"? Implicit in short-term gratification and the neglecting of your health is the idea that society has basically rejected you and this is how you cope. There is no "controlling your destiny"; either you have connections to people or you don't and you just get to wallow and seethe in it.
>>21969514
You are a horrible person. I am so sorry for your friend that he ever met you.

>>21969486
Lambert Strether from The Ambassadors
>Live all you can; it’s a mistake not to. It doesn’t so much matter what you do in particular, so long as you have your life. If you haven’t had that what have you had? This place and these impressions—mild as you may find them to wind a man up so; all my impressions of Chad and of people I’ve seen at his place—well, have had their abundant message for me, have just dropped that into my mind. I see it now. I haven’t done so enough before—and now I’m old; too old at any rate for what I see. Oh I do see, at least; and more than you’d believe or I can express. It’s too late. And it’s as if the train had fairly waited at the station for me without my having had the gumption to know it was there. Now I hear its faint receding whistle miles and miles down the line. What one loses one loses; make no mistake about that. The affair—I mean the affair of life—couldn’t, no doubt, have been different for me; for it’s at the best a tin mould, either fluted and embossed, with ornamental excrescences, or else smooth and dreadfully plain, into which, a helpless jelly, one’s consciousness is poured—so that one ‘takes’ the form as the great cook says, and is more or less compactly held by it: one lives in fine as one can. Still, one has the illusion of freedom; therefore don’t be, like me, without the memory of that illusion. I was either, at the right time, too stupid or too intelligent to have it; I don’t quite know which. Of course at present I’m a case of reaction against the mistake; and the voice of reaction should, no doubt, always be taken with an allowance. But that doesn’t affect the point that the right time is now yours. The right time is any time that one is still so lucky as to have. You’ve plenty; that’s the great thing; you’re, as I say, damn you, so happily and hatefully young. Don’t at any rate miss things out of stupidity. Of course I don’t take you for a fool, or I shouldn’t be addressing you thus awfully. Do what you like so long as you don’t make my mistake. For it was a mistake. Live!

>>21974132
>Implicit in short-term gratification and the neglecting of your health is the idea that society has basically rejected you and this is how you cope. There is no "controlling your destiny"; either you have connections to people or you don't and you just get to wallow and seethe in it.

This. Sick of these "it's all about choices" retards. Why does every faggot with a double digit body count larp like a guidance counselor, like they possess some occult secret to success that has nothing to do with being born desirable?

>>21974229
>dude just... take a walk around the block and get some ice cream lol

I respect the suicides infinitely more than this reddit slop.

>>21974255
The book itself is a bit more nuanced than that, this is just what the character believes...the rest of the book kind of dismantles this line of thinking.

>>21974267
Thanks for wasting our time with the faggot reddit slop then. It wasn't even well-written.

>>21974246
Exactly. People will always point to examples of individuals turning their lives around and finally being accepted by society but implicitly they were already predisposed to being accepted and simply weren't in the right place at the time to receive that. To be born undesirable is a lifelong affliction that no one who is actually desirable will ever understand given their consciousness is so attuned to being accepted. You will never understand how subtle and pervasive that rejection from the world is, how utterly complete it is simply because you were born a certain way and have certain features. Fuck off with your happy-pill bullshit for once.

>>21974132
>>21974246
NTA, but this is supreme cope. i get it, life is hard but if you turn to drugs, cooming and video games instead of studying, gym and getting a job you will live a miserable life. choices add up over time and its self evident from anyone who has experienced time passing and observed the people in their lives. i know people who dropped out of school at 16, i know people who dropped out of university. they all universally live objectively shittier lives then people who just stuck at it

>inb4 im a 3/10 so society abuses me
yeah thats true, but its better to be an ugly fucker with a job (which mightve been more difficult to get because people innately dislike ugly people) then an ugly fucker smoking weed all day

>>21974286
>To be born undesirable is a lifelong affliction that no one who is actually desirable will ever understand given their consciousness is so attuned to being accepted. You will never understand how subtle and pervasive that rejection from the world is, how utterly complete it is simply because you were born a certain way and have certain features.

Precisely. It's like being buried alive in space. There's nowhere to go, because there you are. And you nailed the predisposition part. There comes a point in a """"man's"""" life when all the love songs on the radio, all the pep talks and pick-me-ups that pop culture has to offer, however superficial or profit-driven the motive behind them, there comes a point when you realize that these things were never referring to YOU and what is possible for you, that you might as well have hacked into the culture industry of an alien species. That you can be so irrevocably different and set apart from others you share 99% of genes with. And not only that, but we got the beautiful ones banging on the bible of "good choices", too. I'm done.

>>21973225
29 is practically the ideal age to get after what you want out of your life. Want to a be professional? Enter university. Want to be a writer? Get something published. It’s not until you cross that 30 mark that it starts to feel too late.

>>21974306
It's better to be dead than to listen to faggots like you tell me to get a job because the machine needs my utils.

>>21969527
Everyone socialises. Disdain for normies isn't a good cope for this. It isn't a good cope for anything, really.

>>21974319
>its better to be dead
you will be dead. you will commit suicide in less then a decade, partially because you don't have a job

>>21974324
>muh jorb
Eh just spare me you fucking muppet. I am my own boss and have my own place and it's still tumbleweeds. You're right about the rest.

>>21969486
Stoner

>>21969514
people seethe at this because they are the friend. hell i was but i changed a leaf and became a protonormie.

what he needs is not to socialise at bars and clubs because thats being thrown in the deep end. Also given his build and personality what he needs is to get a serious physical hobby. (skinny geeks basedjack at climbing, introduce him to it) other hobbies such as lifting are good but for self confidence in skinny guys nothing beats a good martial art like boxing, brazillian blowjob or muay thai. from those hobbies he will talk to more people and become comfortable in his own skin in groups. then eventually he'll want to go to bars because he can actually have fun at them, just dont expect him to be a sesh head. i have a few friends who always wanted to go super hard (im british) and it was a nightmare and i never wanted to do anything with them ever after a certain point because i knew that a couple drinks after work would be end with 5am in some shitty club

>>21974328
why did you reply to my post all butthurt if you didnt apply to what i was describing? christ what an unlikeable cunt, physiognomy is real

>>21974340
stupid faggot can't conceive of the possibility that some people aren't wired for his lifestyle. oi m8 you got a loicense to be a fuckin reddit posting brainlet?

>>21974348
>ummm sadness sweetie? not a good look
Lunch break's over wagie, get back to work

>>21974348
>>21974356
Not him but I sincerely hope every atom of your body is plunged in eternal torment forever, and those atoms, splitting up an infinite number of times, also are steeped in agony.

>>21974356
yeah thats what i said as a cope too. i was just incredibly insecure and timid. a few months of boxing and gaining muscle and it turned out exploring the beauty of the world and its peoples actually was something i was interested in. no one is forcing you to go hard and thats why i caveated it

>>21974370
Whose atoms

>>21974374
The atoms of the dude telling people that getting a job will magically make life better, then confirming how evil he is by saying "physiognomy is real" and ugly people deserve what they get.

>>21974372
lol you sound like a child. your whole life turned around because he took a krav maga class. cringe.

>>21974364
>ESL faggot cant into english
its okay buddy, we all learn somehow. next time just double or triple read posts so you don't make this mistake again

>>21974381
Oh based, we are in agreement. You're the "I hope the atoms of all worldlings are bathed in eternal torment" fella from the suicide thread, right? I like you.

>>21974387
That wasn't me but I was struck by that guy's post and I tried to capture it here, albeit not as gloriously as he did. I really have begun to sympathize with that pure feeling of anger. What a great post, I need to save it.

>>21974381
it will make your life marginally better, but you guys shitflung it back at me because youre crabs in a bucket

>inb4 UHM ACTUALLY I HAVE A JOB I HAVE A JOB I HAVE A JOB
so dont reply then, fucking retard lmao

>>21974385
Let me get my glasses and pull up my GPT assistants to parse your posts bro, how did I ever think I could make it without such epochal advice as "sedate your suicidal despair with physical activity and making money bro."

>>21974400
I do have a job. It's actually incredibly stultifying and insipid.
>will make your life marginally better
So my descent towards the abyss will be made marginally slower. I appreciate you.

>>21974400
mincing little brainlet. you really are all just boomers back for another round. I hope your country gets fucking glassed

>>21974404
marginal gains over time add up, maybe after a few years you wont be so suicidal and might start enjoying life

>>21974383
no my life was fine, most peoples lives are fine even if they arent social people. it just enabled me to be more comfortable socially that led to me doing it more. if the guys friend has a job and went to uni and has everything else covered and isnt some grotesque freak then he would derive value from my advice

>>21974412
>marginal gains
>maybe
>might
You've convinced me. I hereby dedicate the rest of my life to slaving at my job in the hopes that I "might" be happy and "maybe" won't want to end myself. Truly, thou art the man. You've solved it entirely. You've really done it. If I had just had the foreknowledge and resolve to understand that all my problems could be solved by being micromanaged for the rest of my life, I wouldn't be in this rut. Clearly you have some preternatural prescient intelligence that I can only guess at. Everyone here, please read this. He says we "might" and "may" enjoy ourselves for once with our "marginal gains"! Three cheers for Mr. Marginal!

>>21970381
is 30 too late?

>>21974441
man if you dont want to try and live a better life then just kill yourself

i posted my original post because there are ways to make your life objectively more enjoyable, and there are ways to make your life objectively less enjoyable. youre now chimping at me for some reason, thats fine anon, its not sexy to tell people that not being fat and not doing drugs will make them more comfy and feel better, but its the truth nontheless! thats me, there i go! the TRUTHTELLER! WOOHOOOOOOOO FOR TRUTH

>>21969514
That is literally the worst reason to pursue a PhD I’ve ever heard in my life

Faust lol
Don't act like you wouldn't take the deal lmao

>>21970433
this is just not true and i dont know how it became so popular. college grads are the most succesful demographic and earn like 1million+ extended over a lifetime. if theres one thing you can do to have success almost guarenteed its to go to college.

and that even includes retarded college degrees. so if you do something in STEM its literally just printing free money

>>21974457
I'm just joshing you. I honestly don't give a shit. I know what my inadequacies are and what things I can improve on. The only reason I'm on here is out of procrastination, which really translates into my fear of continuing my life's progress. Eventually something in my brain will click and I'll take care of what needs to be taken care of.

I didn't mean anything about your atoms earlier. I hope they stay intact. To the other anon, hope everything works out. I know what not to expect and yet I know I'd like to do more.

Yours,
Humphrey Chimpden Earwicker

>>21969501
>18-30 may be prime for a woman but are they really prime for a man? Wouldnt 30s or 40s be a man's prime.
The Republic put woman's prime from 20-40 and mans from 30-55. If you expand "prime" from "the best years" to "the better years" I think that is basically right.

>>21974485
>i dont know how it became so popular.
it's called cope

>>21974490
Yeah 54 beats 24 everyday of the week gramps.

>>21974490
>woman's prime from 20-40
Woman's prime is 18-22 when she's most fertile and her eggs have less chance of being retarded.

>>21974491
that and bricklayers claiming that they get paid 10,000$ a brick

>>21970433
Retard that fell for the internet memes. Just looj up average starting wages. This is publicly available information and takes a 30 second search.
>>21974485
Cope from people not wanting to go to college/not being able to do the math that having $40-$50k worth of debt when you leave college is a fucking steal considering the low interest rates and the significantly high income you'll get. It's simple to see the ROI, yet others pretend that once you're out of college you'll have no way to pay that debt back.
>>21974512
It's so fucking bizarre how many tradies online go "yup, fuck college. just get $100k starting wage by being a welder!" when they're literally just flat out wrong. Just being around tradies in real life will CLEARLY show you that.

Where I’m at, having just turned 30, is finally having a really clear sense of who I am, what I want, and what I should, ideally, do with my life but feeling like this is something that I really needed 5 years ago or more to realize. It’s difficult then to identify a way of catching up.

>>21974550
what did you find. i can tell you if it'll last

>>21974553
You cannot.

>>21969640
>they simply don’t need to learn new things of life has worked out for them. they are definitely a 100x happier than us though lmao
In other words, normalfags are superior beings.

>>21974544
Averages include the data for people in their 70s, who graduated into a very different economy than ours.

>>21974306
>i know people who dropped out of school at 16, i know people who dropped out of university. they all universally live objectively shittier lives then people who just stuck at it
As a university drop-out I can confirm. All in all I'm happy and things could be worse, but had I stuck with it they would be better.
There is little use crying over spilt milk, though. All one can do in such a case is cut their losses and move on in a better direction.

>>21974485
The one data point that is the single best predictor of income and wealth is age, anon. The people going to college and graduating with bad degrees and 5-6 figure debt into an economy with no jobs or jobs with no wages are not having the same results as the minority of people who went to college 30 years ago.

>>21974544
The typical college graduate in 2020 was looking at 20 years to reaching solvency. 20 years and not a single dollar gained. College graduates at the 10 year mark of their career have made a fraction of what previous college graduates can make. Forget about aggregate statistics and look at the trend of statistics. The ROI is going down and down and down and for generations graduating after, say, 2008, it’s not clear that they’ll get much if any lifetime ROI from their degrees in aggregate at all.

>>21974544
>He fell for the boomer propaganda
If you'd ever taken a college statistics class you'd realize that statistics don't mean shit. Anecdotally, every job I've ever worked in has been entirely composed of college grads (with me, a dropout who occasionally falsifies transcripts, being the acception). They are all making the same amount, minimum wage, as everyone else in our generation. The only difference is that the careers are higher status, or they nominally pay better (but actually don't, because of the cost of living in large cities).
The only people actually getting ahead are people who's parents set them up by buying them a house. Or they have a trust fund. Most normies (and there is clear data about this as well) are living paycheck to paycheck and taking out thousands of dollars in credit card debt while they /pretend/ to live the upper middle class life that's expected of them.

People treat me like a loser because I live in a shack without running water, but objectively speaking, I've yet to meet someone in my generation who's 'doing well' and isn't either coasting off mommy and daddy or buried in debt.

>But the debt will pay for itself!!!!
Maybe. I wouldn't bet on it.

>>21974499
If you're a Greek citizen with an estate and dozens of slaves, as well as a Haram and minor political office, it does.

>>21974731
Point taken.

>>21974727
>Anecdotally
yeah anon... yeah

but also to make this a non meme reply: you actually arent forced to live in the most expensive cities on earth like NYC or San Fran, some mid sized city is perfectly fine

>>21974780
Don't worry anon, 24 is the perfect age to start working towards being a fifty year old strong man with three wives and a dozen followers

>>21974780
You’re forced to live where the jobs are.

>>21969486
Futility; or the Wreck of the Titan by Morgan Robertson. the novel that predicted Titanic

>>21974873
There are things called remote jobs, anon. You should do some research on those.

t. comfy as fuck working from home for a year.

>>21974865
Meant for >>21974746

But regarding >>21974780,
That's kind of my point. I gave up a $50/hour job teaching rich kids because the cost of living in [redacted] meant I could earn more cashing welfare checks and living in the boonies.

So you can't fool me with your smoke and mirrors. Some twenty something living in LA and making 100k as a "software engineer" isn't actually accumulating wealth. The ONLY people I've met in my generation who are accumulating wealth are me (a crazy motherfucker) and people who's parents bought them a home. The rest are just living as serfs while larping as middle class.

So when you say that so and so is actually doing great because they went to college, you're making an error by assuming that just because they /look like/ they're successful and their job /sounds/ impressive that it actually means something. But none of these people have tangible wealth, and it seems like status in this generation is actually correlated with negative met wealth for all but the trust fund babies.

The issue is that if you "own" a fancy car and a nice apartment, but it's actually owned by the bank, you aren't really successful. You're just a house nigger. And the thing about being a house nigger is that it can be taken away from you at any time.

>>21969486
>he thinks he had a choice

>>21974900
I know. I have one. They don’t just let you go wherever you want nor do they pay you enough for you to just wherever you want nor are the large majority of people able to have a remote job.

The closest thing I’ve found is Plutarch’s chapter on Claudius in his lives. Claudius was basically a loser that nobody believed in until he was like 40.

Otherwise, I’ve found very few. History seems to like figures that find themselves on the right path by the time they’re 29 at the latest…which is crushingly depressing, but it is what it is.

Be like Oblomov, do literally nothing.

>>21974697
Hence why I said starting wages. Which, again, is publicly available info.
>>21974709
You do make very valid points.
Ultimately it's degree and location dependent for the specific numbers and ultimate cost-benefit analysis, but you seem to be onto something generally. There are ways to get around it and reduce time to solvency, for instance by not falling for the lifestyle bloat meme that >>21974727 points out and what causes most six-figure earners to be drowning in debt.

But you do make good points, and clearly the case isn't cut and dry.
>>21974727
>If you'd ever taken a college statistics class you'd realize that statistics don't mean shit.
It's people like you that's wrong with this species.
>Maybe. I wouldn't bet on it.
The only reason it wouldn't is if you have no ability to manage money.

>>21974865
>>21974901
Strangely motivating. Have on me tonight king.

>>21969501
Depends what you mean by "prime". Fitness is definitely prime between 18 - 30, but the argument can be made that attractiveness to women peaks later than 30, also it's common to have accumulated enough education or experience to really start making money after 30, which can be view as one's "prime" in terms of making money.

>>21974901
This is shockingly true. My dad let me rent his old place when he got married, and he gave me a good deal on rent. As a result, I've saved up quite a lot over the years. The only other person I know who has saved up money lived with his parents until almost 30.

>>21972567
i specifically mean chronic pain, and yeah some people start balding young but it gets more and more likely as you age.

>>21970237
Delete this.

>>21969527
Based

>>21970237
Nightmare fuel. I've started to get horrible neck cramps if I move a certain way.

Don't get old.

>>21969514
Not everyone cares to do that or fits in there and that is fine.
>>21969563
>>21969614
Consoomer fucking drones. Time to grow up and realize not everyone is good at life, and that it’s not fair in general. Dumb niggers.

>>21970237
>All you young bucks need to realize, that for 20.000 generations, man and his ancestors bred at age 13 and died at 27
How do people still believe this made up bullshit? People had kids much younger, yes, but the vast majority wouldn't be giving birth at 13. 16-19 year old moms? Sure, but having a proper family support structure meant that the grandparents basically served as a second set of parents for a good while. And you wouldn't see people living to their 80s and 90s too commonly, but if you made it last child birth, you realistically would make it to your 50s at least

>>21975007
There is no universal prime. An athlete will be in his prime probably late twenties early thirties depending on his sport. A business man will be in his prime probably late thirties early forties depending on his business. An artist can be in his prime basically any time before senility. It just entirely depends on the individual and context.

>>21975016
I’ve only managed to save up $30k by 30. I don’t even know what to do with that amount other than take some time off from work. It’s not enough to buy a house. It’s hardly enough to buy a car.

>>21975154
It doesn’t matter anyway. Thirty is still thirty, whether you live to fifty or one hundred.

>>21975165
I'm close to $100k and just turned 30. It is truly depressing, my gf and I tried to get a mortgage and the bank literally thought we were joking (Canada's home owning middle class has been completely obliterated unless you inherit). Mainly I'm just socking money away so things will be easier when we start having kids and the only way I can hope to one day own a home is through inheritance, but the cost of living is so high and growing so fast my dad is worried he'll basically burn through all his savings and wealth in retirement. It's insane to me, both my parents own houses, and my gf's parents own houses, and yet that generation is still so abysmal with money even with the MASSIVE gains of real estate they are still concerned that even after they liquidate everything they'll run out of money! Give me even a fraction of that and I'd be able to invest it safely and live off the dividend but these maniacs spend money as easily as they breath.

>>21975237
Is this just for urban areas or is this true even in rural areas? Could you at least put the down payment on a nice property with a structure on it out near a smaller town?

>>21970334
It's about already having lived your best life.

And what book you're talking about is decline and fall, a very different genre even.

>>21975244
I think there are areas in places like Alberta where there is still affordable property, but it's not just rural, it's freezing cold 10 months of the year and also far away from any of my family. The trouble is there is a knock on effect, when urban centers quadruple in value in a couple of years, smaller urban centers start seeing demand increase, so those prices skyrocket, and so on and so on down the chain of real estate until you're left with the least desirable locations, and even those are getting more expensive.

Don’t know man. I feel like I’ve wasted the first part of my life too. I know what I’d do if I could go back but the path forward from here isn’t as clear.

I'm 20 and consider myself a learned man of the word. I am currently studying at an Ivy League institution. I do not like liberals, socialists and other left wing progressives who want to destroy traditional values and impose their ill-informed dogmas of political correctness onto the populace. They are weak, resentful and dangerous individuals. Also, I do not wish to brag, but I cannot say I struggle with the ladies. I am genetically blessed, and make no mistake, looks and genetics are the most crucial and key factors in determining future success. They like me because of my height (6'5), skin (light tan, white but not pasty), hair (dark). I'm confident in how I am and my ability to get women and live my life, and I don't pay attention to feminists who accuse me of sexism. I talk to them, if they're into it I keep going, if not I find a bitch who is. Women are in abundance, and if you have the cards you can lay them on the table. Eventually you will get one. I'm a smoker and I don't care about my health, I don't "hit the gym", massive porn addiction, I have a reputation for being a cantankerous moody asshole and often fight with other students or professors. I go against all the traditional advice you get of being an agreeable little cuck self improover. but women don't give a fuck. I'm slippery and I know how to stay out of trouble, and to worm my way into pussy, because I was blessed by God and evolution. Many people hate me because of my arrogance, but I don't pay attention to them. I live, and do, because why shouldn't I?

>>21975237
>and yet that generation is still so abysmal with money even with the MASSIVE gains of real estate they are still concerned that even after they liquidate everything they'll run out of money!
Based dionysian orgy apres moi le deluge locust generation.

>>21975237
lmfao what the fuck, leave that shithole of a country, you've got Zimbabwean tier economic collapse incoming.

>>21969486
Did you have any sense of what you wanted to do with your life at any point between 18-30? I

>>21975567
>I
what did he mean by this

>>21975574
He had a fichtean intellectual intuition of the Ich and dwemer'ed out of existence

>>21975576
Sounds gnarly and also based

why are zoomers like you such pussies
what do you even want, like did you want to be rich? did you want to be popular? did you want to do more drugs? be more attractive and get more pussy? more free time? plenty of people never had or even imagined those things which is why you're an useless pussy.

>>21975574
It was just a typo.

>>21975576
>fichtean intellectual intuition of the Ich
Explain this to a kantian who never read fichte

>>21975567
Yes.

>>21975604
That's precisely the fucking point, genius. Of course I wanted to be popular and fuck more women and be attractive. But I'm not and haven't. I haven't fucked a woman or been in a relationship in 5 years. Everything else is fucking cope. This life is more about what we lack than what gives us pleasure, and it's that lack that drives us fucking insane. We don't need your moralizing.

>>21975636
What was it? Why don’t you go after that now?

>>21969514
not to say that being socially isolated isn't horrible and a waste of your life, but the kinds of people who think you are obliged to literally TREASURE their company because you are in your LE TWENTIES and wasted(i guess?), are exactly the kinds of people pretty much anyone is better off without. I actually knew these people well IRL and how laughable it is that they are 1upping anyone if one time they got blackout drunk and fell-over it was into a vagina.

>>21975604
Don’t you feel at least a little bit bad for the large majority of the millennials and zoomers? As best I can tell, previous generations received a lot of guidance and were encouraged to make decisions about their lives and direction. But even when this didn’t happen, the conventional life treadmill seemed to generally work out for them. They got friends, wives, families, successful jobs or careers, probably a house. The people that didn’t usually did some sort of damaging thing. Starting with the millennials, it was totally different. They really didn’t receive any guidance at all and were raised by screens and single mothers. If they did receive guidance it was a vague sort of “go to college for something practical and it will work out” only it didn’t. There were no jobs, the jobs they were there sucked, prices were too expensive, dating was dead, divorce was a near certainty, abortion was the norm. They weren’t even really encouraged to be adventurous, to pursue their interests, or to even develop interests outside of the screen so most of them ended up getting heavily addicted to technology and failing to identify real interests and passions. Nobody really cared about them or what they did beyond just shitting on them. It’s very easy for me to understand how people in these generations could wake up one day in their late twenties or early thirties after finding themselves on the treadmill, or having shunned it entirely and be profoundly disappointed.

>>21975683
Social isolation is simply the end-goal of everything. We all get there eventually: it's just some start early and are more prepared for its complete abnegation.

>>21975620
Fichte: At the core of idealism is the intellectual intuition that the world is posited by me (the I or Ich), that my experience is MY experience. But going even further than Kant, and realizing that it is philosophically incoherent that there can be an entity or domain (the thing in itself) completely apart from me and yet interacting with my experience, the true realization of idealism is that even the apparently contingent aspect of experience (the sensuous data we receive from the thing in itself) is still ultimately just another "product" of the I/Ich. Everything that "is," that has determinate being or that is an object of ordinary experience, is "posited" by the I/Ich.

Someone who doesn't have the direct intellectual intuition of the world-positing I/Ich at the center of his experience this will reify some CONTENT of ordinary experience or another, whether through naive realism about experienced entities or more abstract realism about abstractly conceptualized matter and physical laws, or even forms of idealist rationalism like Spinoza's in which the experiencing subject is reduced to a determinate function of modes of a non-experiencable, merely "abstractly" ideal Absolute of some kind or another, all of these people end up in the same error of positing a monistic dead world in which actual experienced subjectivity is only an epiphenomenon and all the laws and aspects of that world are fundamentally unaccountable. Whether they do this by saying that reality "just is" the laws and fundamental particles of materialism, or "just is" Spinoza's dead modal Absolute, it's still just reified bits of being posited by the I/Ich elevated to a merely abstract and dead "system."

But on the contrary, someone who has the originary intellectual intuition instantly sees what is wrong with all these systems and the error that is common to them all, because he immediately apprehends that the world of all possible experience/being is HIS world, posited by the I/Ich, which is at his center. Kant got very close but not all the way to making this realization, he had the vision but failed to see its implications (Fichte doesn't say this directly, he simply says Kant meant to be a Fichtean and others are misinterpreting him).

The ambiguity in Fichte is whether this means the individual experiencing subject or a super-subject like a platonic nous. But the two can be reconciled by saying that it's only in higher grades of self-consciousness that the individual finite subject coincides with the radical world-positing nous-level subject. And collectively in cultures with high degrees of self-consciousness and self-mastery, like the Jena philosophers and the French revolutionary generation, human beings can collectively alter positivity (change consciousness, break through stagnant social and political forms). Again the ambiguity here is whether a high enough degree of this would mean even changing or suspending physical laws.

>>21975169
Yeah, and 30 isn't even close to old. What most people experience at 30 isn't the effects of age, it's the consequences of their actions (or rather lack of action in most cases) catching up to them.
Spending your formative years on your ass, never getting sun and exercise, and then spending 8-9 hours of your day sitting on your ass in an office, and having a terrible diet will do terrible things to you.
A developed mind in a pitiful body is a stagnant waste at best. You must civilize the mind, and make savage the body.

>>21975669
My goal changed many times. First I wanted to make an apprenticeship, then I wanted to go to college, then I dropped out of school so I had to change my plans again. Now I'm 20 and NEET, but I live on my own savings (no neetbux) and pay money to my parents and clean the house.

>>21975704
This is great. So the I/ich can coincide with the nous-level subject, or God, or what have you. This is good stuff. I want to experience godly God.

>>21975727
Yes that's Neoplatonism as well. Plotinus:
>And this inner vision, what is its operation? Newly awakened it is all too feeble to bear the ultimate splendour. Therefore the Soul must be trained—to the habit of remarking, first, all noble pursuits, then the works of beauty produced not by the labour of the arts but by the virtue of men known for their goodness: lastly, you must search the souls of those that have shaped these beautiful forms.

>But how are you to see into a virtuous soul and know its loveliness? Withdraw into yourself and look. And if you do not find yourself beautiful yet, act as does the creator of a statue that is to be made beautiful: he cuts away here, he smoothes there, he makes this line lighter, this other purer, until a lovely face has grown upon his work. So do you also: cut away all that is excessive, straighten all that is crooked, bring light to all that is overcast, labour to make all one glow of beauty and never cease chiselling your statue, until there shall shine out on you from it the godlike splendour of virtue, until you shall see the perfect goodness surely established in the stainless shrine.

>When you know that you have become this perfect work, when you are self-gathered in the purity of your being, nothing now remaining that can shatter that inner unity, nothing from without clinging to the authentic man, when you find yourself wholly true to your essential nature, wholly that only veritable Light which is not measured by space, not narrowed to any circumscribed form nor again diffused as a thing void of term, but ever unmeasurable as something greater than all measure and more than all quantity—when you perceive that you have grown to this, you are now become vision itself: now call up all your confidence, strike forward yet a step—you need a guide no longer—strain, and SEE.

>>21969614
I masturbate to drag queens and seehte about cartoon women, we are not the same

>>21975646
ok so you feel bad about being socially isolated and that's good. But specifically you have FOMO, which is i guess missing out on something you've seen in a movie or TV-show? But that is big cringe, in IRL plenty of people have disillusioning, demoralizing or even traumatizing circumstances no matter what age they are, or what's worse circumstances that ought to have been that, like if they bullied someone who ended up suiciding but they are still as nostalgic as anyone else, or they might have ended up getting addicted to hard drugs pretty much as a pretty direct result of their peer-group environment. And this kind of things are bound to become very common if you treat any young peer-group as being above any criticism and retaining the means to a fruitful life-experience.

>>21975731
This is beautiful stuff. Saved.

>>21975747
So basically you're saying I shouldn't worry about what others are doing and instead focus on myself through meditation?

>>21975775
I just think everyone needs to, while not necessarily being selfish or autistic, should at least acknowledge themselves, and interprete their life and times according to themselves.

>>21975715
I agree with all of that but that’s not really what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about the sort of biography you inadvertently build for yourself in your 20s and if you manage to figure out what you want by 30 whether it aligns with that.

>>21975725
Wait so you’re 20? This thread is about people in their 30s? Of course your plans have changed at 20.

>>21975924
I'll give you that, the lived experiences you miss out on can't be given back, but that doesn't mean your life has to be at a dead end. There's always what tomorrow will bring.
My point was about the original post I responded to of the guy bitching about muh back in muh 30s, which can also be fixed 9/10 times through excercise and lifestyle changes

>>21976066
I totally agree it’s not a dead end but that doesn’t mean it’s going to be what you most want.

>>21970237
>>bad knee (unironically gets worse in cold/humid weather, like some sort of New England sailor of the 1880's)
Same, but in my shoulder. Happened today and I couldn't cope without a pain killer.

>>21975683
One of the best decisions I've made in my early twenties is to stop hanging out with the people you're describing i.e. normies/narcissists. While my decision led me into social isolation, which is difficult to deal with, I have grown so much as a person, understand people better, understand myself better, living more truthfully, authentically, compassionately and with a greater appreciation of life; and now, after ~ 1 year of growing I am starting to meet people who have a similar disposition which allow each other to be authentic and candid. I suspect that the friend who regrets not being socially outgoing is not outgoing because he doesn't feel safe to be authentic and open to normies, because normies are only interested in him for their own interests, their own pleasures. They don't really care about you.

That is all to say that in my experience, just going out and socialising is not going to fulfill someone who partakes in the "grotesque" lifestyle of staying inside and watching tv on the weekends. The sad thing is, the alternative that normies propose is far more disgusting and depraved, and they're too blind, too narcissistic, too desperate fill the inner void to know what they're doing.

>>21976263
This is something I needed to hear and really confirms a few things I've been thinking about myself. Thank you for sharing and it's good to hear you've been able to work on yourself and grow as a person.

>>21969486
this is like half of novels period, do you read

>>21976263
I did this too, but my fate or circumstance I never managed to find new crowds to run in. I don’t think I made a single friend in my late twenties, and met exactly two women that were potential dates.

i love being young

i hate being old

>>21976271
I'm happy to be of help :)

I think it's important to add that didn't get to this point out of shear will. I've been blessed with great resources and people which not everybody can access. I have a amazing transpersonal therapist who's been guiding me along the journey and been there before herself. I highly recommend transpersonal therapy rather than clinical therapy or even pure psychoanalysis, since it's less about diagnosing, analysing and treating and more about uncovering one's innate creativity, authenticity and higher levels of consciousness.

If you can't access that right now there's some great books which have helped me, and here I'll name just a few of my favourites. Spacecruiser Inquiry by AH Almaas provides and excellent introduction of the Diamond Approach, a great tool for helping one discover higher levels of consciousness and self-awareness, and also to understand some of the filters which block these experiences. To understand the filters I really like CPTSD by Pete Walker and SWS by Byron Brown, great works on how our formative years limit our understanding of reality. Last but not least, The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists by Eleanor Payson is a profound, eye-opening read which proposes that at the core of narcissism is the lack of a sense of self. It exposes the ubiquity of narcissism and the many forms it takes, and providing advice on how to navigate the narcissists in our lives. These are just some of the many resources out there, and I'm sure you'll find your own. And that's not to mention all the great literature and other art forms which enrich our lives and often grapple with the same big questions and issues that you'll encounter as you grow.

Also, just to say that growing takes a lot of time, and there will be wild ups and downs along the way. As Pete Walker says, it's a two steps forward, one step back process, but it is very rewarding.

>>21969486
Caesar was 33 when he wept in front of that statue of Alexander and resolved to do great deeds. Maybe read his writings.

>>21969514
I guarantee your friend's father wasn't involved in his upbringing much if at all. Anti-social men are the products of overbearing and single mothers. They are always eaten alive later in life by mortal hunger and regret.

You're only alive briefly. You're young for even less. In the name of god, go and intercourse with women.

>>21976374
>Anti-social men are the products of overbearing and single mothers

holy shit, do you know why?

>>21975154
>>21970237
>How do people still believe this made up bullshit?
The modern world exaggerates the difficulty of the past in order to better justify itself. Retards like that anon parrot and regurgitate these phrases that circulate all throughout western society to convince each other we are the light and the past is darkness, blind to the fact that the only people who need to engage in such desperate coping mechanisms must be living deeply unnatural and unhealthy lives.

The fact is once you got past infant mortality many people lived long lives. Bone records prove it, you see people living to be 60, 70, 80, and they were in fact much stronger and healthier than modern people at those age as evidenced by examination of their bones.

>>21970226
>30s and 40s definitely are prime for a man but you don’t want to be just starting in your 30s. Men have to do things, and ideally, you’re doing in your 30s something you started or set yourself up for in your 20s. Once you turn 30, something changes and it suddenly feels like it’s too late to start, probably because there aren’t many historical examples that have done this that you can look up to.
This anon is wise. If you don't have a good skilled career at 30 you won't have it until 40, at which point you're extremely far behind. It's humiliating and painful to lack the capital, social and economic, that this entails. And this is becoming increasingly common in western man, and in particular those who frequent this website. People live lives of complete delusion and capitulation until they are finally woken up by a finger of death's grip, the irrefutable realization of age creeping up on them. And those are the lucky ones. Many such people never wake up, they die in their sleep upright and with eyes open.

>>21976374
>Anti-social men are the products of overbearing and single mothers. They are always eaten alive later in life by mortal hunger and regret.
This is fucking crushing because it's true. Dad was "around" but more in the abusive-alcoholic and emotionally removed way. Mom to this day continues to coddle me and it's severely hampered my development.
>>21976370
Thank you again, I've saved this and will go back through and do some research on transpersonal therapy. This has been immensely helpful.

>>21969578
There’s more to life but it can still be a beneficial part of life to a young man who has not built a social life and needs to lose his inhibitions that are preventing him from getting himself out there.

>>21976385
This is basic psychology, what do you think the Oedipal complex is? It isn't a literal desire to fuck your mother, it's a lack of separation and development from your mother-child relationship. Of course you remain a fucking child if you never leave your mother's bed. And it is precisely father's in the human hierarchy who encourage children to be outgoing while mother's seek to shelter them.

>>21970237
Every morning I break my legs, and every afternoon I break my arms. At night, I lie awake in agony until my heart attacks put me to sleep

>>21976385
If you can put aside whatever meme preconceptions you have and actually listen to some of Peterson before he fried his brain on benzos, he makes some nice points about this.

https://youtu.be/50FbeazFkgs?t=19

>>21976407
i have nothing but pure hatred towards my own mom, it´s unfiltered rage towards her

i always try to challenge myself and take risks (even social risks)

do you think im on the right track?

>>21976422
>>21976407
How do you go about rectifying such a horrible situation caused by your own mother? I've hated her for some years but have come to the understanding she didn't have any control over it.

>>21976424
>i have nothing but pure hatred towards my own mom
>do you think im on the right track
yeah, dude. golden.

>>21976424
>>21976436
If you lay all the blame for your situation on your mother what's to stop her from blaming her parents in turn?

>>21976468
the difference is that i´m not a narcissistic toxic person like her even though i was treated way worse compared to what she suffered in her life before she had me

>>21976476
How do you know what her life was like? Can you even give an example of how you're so badly treated? Most guys who sound like this are overreacting over nothing.

>>21976476
You don’t have kids to be a toxic narcissist to yet.

>>21976394
That’s not what I said. I wasn’t saying anons have to be careerists before 30. What I said was that they want to find some sort of pursuit that calls them and make some progress on it before they’re 30. For example, a writer will have ideally published a bit of something before 30. I don’t care if he has like a career before he’s 30.

>>21976626
>Can you even give an example of how you're so badly treated?

don´t get me started, she didn´t treat me badly, she literally tortured me as a kid (physical and psychological) and i couldn´t do a thing about it, my passive father never had the balls to go against my mom, it was fucking hell

>>21976627
i don´t want kids

>>21976374
Julius Caesar also spent his 20s in military service, bringing pirates to justice, delivering populist speeches, and doing legal advocacy. By the time he wept in front of that statue, he had done quite a lot. As much as I would like to think he was unremarkable until 33, that’s not the case. Meanwhile, your typical 30 something today will have maybe graduated from college and held a job.

Sulla, as best I can tell, was unremarkable until he was 30.

>>21976626
>>21976627
I'm not him and I don't know who either of you two is but having an overbearing mother honestly is one of the worst things that can possibly happen to you as a man.
>Can you even give an example of how you're so badly treated?
You are an extension of the mother. The umbilical cord is still metaphysically attached. She does everything for you: cuts your food up, cleans your clothes, cooks your meals, buys everything you need, cleans your room, etc. It's heaven on paper except when you realize it's her narcissism that is infantilizing you and keeping you from developing as an adult. You are helpless and things are fucked before you even realize it. On top of that, that kind of mother will invade your privacy in everything, asking about your relationships, whom you're hanging out with, where you're going, what you're doing. She will get angry at you for wanting to leave; she will be emotionally incestuous by complaining to you about all her issues. In short, you have absolutely no idea what it is to have an overbearing mother and should shut the fuck up now.
>Most guys who sound like this are overreacting over nothing.
I really hope all of your atoms are split indefinitely and infinitely and steeped in hellfire for eternity.

>>21976641
Just give 1 specific example, we're interested.

>>21975237
and then you woke up because everyone was clapping

so many retards replying to rage bait

>>21969588
>make the most of the time you do have
>reading good and interesting novels
this board

>>21976676
This. Rage-bait is such a great way to put it.

>>21976652
>I really hope all of your atoms are split indefinitely and infinitely and steeped in hellfire for eternity.
can't imagine why someone might think you're overreacting

>>21976656
she deliberately used to hit me over minor things, but she was clever, she never hit my arms, but the parts with you can easily cover with clothes, before that she used to gave me a lengthy speech about why i should be punished in order to infuse me with fear from the get go

that i was going to be a failure in life, in the streets with nothing, i was basically afraid of leaving after school because i know what was coming for me

all the while my coward father acted like nothing happened

>>21976652
>have a piece of shit mother and father, do terrible things in childhood and they try to make up for them later
>they were separate
>most of the adolescent years spent with single mom due to classic bias towards women for custody
>the opposite of overbearing, mother is uncaring and indifferent to most things
>never learned how to socialize proper
>autistic as fuck
>teenage years spent with father
>he's abusive in his own ways
>he died
>a mess but I know how to do things since I never had anything done for me or handed to me
>still fucked up due to mother never having been a real mother to me
Overbearing is one thing, and I'm sure it is awful, but I think it may be worse to be emotionally dead, detached from everything and everyone and wary and even downright terrified of women due to witnessing their wicked ways from a younger age. I always have wanted kids but I don't think I'll be able to have any at this rate, I can't even speak to women. I'm a pathetic excuse of a man, anxiety ridden failure.

>>21976676
>>21976680
I wish this was rage bait. It's not, it's reality.

Yep, 25yo here, never been to a party, never done drugs, never had sex, never drank alcohol. kill me

>>21969501
>>21969486
>>21969514
In terms of potential; youth is feminine, old age is masculine. Men contain both x and y chromosomes, so when a boy and a girl both hit the wall, the woman starts to shrivel and become decrepit, whereas the boy starts to become a man and begin the second phase of his existence (a phase which, for women, is typically spent occupied for creating new life.)
It's fitting that people are so obsessed with youth, because civilization has become gynarchy. So really people are obsessed with being feminine, and gay, being objects of visual consumption for the future. Making 'memories' instead of things (like babies), which is equivalent to habituating neural pathways toward the basest forms of consumption, dopamine slaves, oxytocin cucks, etc.

>>21976766
Yes, I hear you on a few of these things. Socializing went out the window for me because my mother wouldn't let anyone over or let me have a sleepover at someone else's house in order to protect me. As I said before I used to hate both my parents but now that I'm calmer and more reflective I can see why each came to be such horrible people and I'm working on forgiving them, if only so I can move forward with my life. I also can't deal with women and I'm extremely passive and timid. I've worked on being less awkward but it's a battle every day and I still feel like a failure.
>>21976790
Not doing drugs or alcohol is really a good thing. Even partying is bad. And at some point I'll stop caring about sex at all .

>>21976812
I can't even go somewhere and order food without hyping myself up. Eye contact is forced and I can't hold it longer than a few seconds. I always study everything else on someone. I hate this fucking existence, some days I don't even leave my room.

>>21976839
I completely get it. I'm a mess in any situation that's not preplanned and even then I'll still fuck up if I'm just not in the mood or don't have enough energy. I'm getting better at ordering food at places but phone calls about apartments are still basically the worst and my slight stutter and rapid speech have made me want to kill myself. The only thing that gives me some sense of purpose is the fact that things are slightly improving and I'm learning also to not give a fuck. I'm also at the same time extremely apathetic and lazy but I'm not entirely consumed by hell.

>>21976804

Based and refreshing.

>>21976865
Dunno. at my age it's tiresome to see all my self improvement efforts have basically amounted to nothing and I feel like I've even gotten worse in some respects. I'm never gonna find a woman to put up with my autistic ass, I can't even talk to one if I did find her.

I wasted my prime years. Smoked pot, was depressed, spent all my time in shitty jobs. Now I'm 33 making $75k a year, traveling all around, banging chicks, and writing novels in my spare time. Age aint' shit.

>>21976921
But when did you make that change?

>>21976954
I made the age at the age of 30.

I don't understand this weird superstitious attitude people in their 20s have. As if life ends after 29. No offense to you. I don't know what your opinions are. But honestly? People think that life somehow just stops at 30, as if you're gonna drop dead as soon as you grow your first gray hair. It's nonsense.

>>21976971
I don’t think life stops at 30. I do think your life can always get better at any age, certainly at 30. I also think there are few examples from history of people that ever got really remarkable at a thing that they didn’t start before 30, and I also think that if you don’t find your calling in life before 30 it can easily feel like you just don’t have one.

>>21976982
>I also think there are few examples from history of people that ever got really remarkable at a thing that they didn’t start before 30

LOL wtf am I reading? Tolkien published all his Middle Earth stuff in his 50s. Wittgenstein only published one book while he was alive; his main book was POSTHUMOUSLY published. Scientists tend peak young, but humanities types peak when they're older. And there are plenty of exceptions among scientists.

And why do you need to be "significant in history" anyway? Most significant historical figures were humble enough not to care -- the really egotistical ones are the exception. Just focus on doing something you ENJOY, man!

>>21969501
>Wouldnt 30s or 40s be a man's prime.
only if you didnt waste your 20s and have something to show for yourself

>>21975646
>5 years
you are like a little babby

>>21969486

This is about a deformed NEET who has spent thirty years living in the crawlspace, banished there out of embarrassment by parents who are long since dead (but he does not realize this).

https://alexbeyman.substack.com/p/under-the-floorboards

>>21974709
The typical college graduate in 2020 is a woman majoring in psychology. The people considering going to college vs going into trades are people considering practical income. I really hope that all the people who pick trades over college are exclusively people with sub-3.0 GPAs from high school, because it would be tragic to waste even a moderate intellect on not going to college.
>t. set for life with a college degree from 2018

>>21974011
>Men have a very short prime age. It's somewhere between 28-32. Only 4 years.
On HRT yes, the worst of both world

>>21976988
Tolkien and Wittgenstein started much earlier than they published. They were lifelong academics.

>>21970237
>All you young bucks need to realize, that for 20.000 generations, man and his ancestors bred at age 13 and died at 27. You weren't designed to grow old,
This is impressively wrong. There's a reason we don't drop dead at 30 from aging and routinely reach 80+. Evolution favoured humans living longer than just breeding age, because old people have wisdom that is useful to the group. If you have that many genetic problems at 30 then you're genetic trash or don't take care of yourself.

>>21976988
Both of the people you mentioned were seriously working at what they would become famous for by the time they weee college students.

>>21977483
There's people in the Bible who lived until age 900+. It also says that God shortened the lifespan of people... to 120 years! If anything, lifespans have gotten shorter.

>>21976982

Man what happens at 30 is you realize there isn't a goddam calling. You realize that you're where you are and it doesn't matter if you started earlier or not, you're only going to get as far as you're going to get so you may as well get going.

When you're in your early 20s, you don't even enjoy life as much. You're all caught up in anxiety and shit, not getting laid is a big deal. Getting laid is like a fucking achievement to tick off so much that you don't even enjoy the moment you're just happy you're not a loser virgin. You're literally a splurge with no understanding or appreciation for life, its insane. Even my ass who did good okay with chicks and did a bunch of cool extreme sports and traveling was a total retard about it. I never really enjoyed it fully because I was caught up in my self image, too dumb to take advantage of every opportunity, too governed by emotions. It's true when they say youth is wasted on the young, because we were complete idiots. And then here is a whole website full of people who are stuck in the anxious awkward 20 year old phase and need to move on and just accept that aging happens and they're gonna go on.

>>21977513
>>21977470

One thing they didn't do is get on 4chan making excuses to strangers for why they'll never do anything.

One thing that might help you is to stop telling me how hopeless your life is and go do something that is meaningful to you.

>>21969718
I am unable of convincing myself of this. I have pangs of hope but always end up defaulting back to the realization that I am a subhuman unfit for life.

>>21977751
>getting laid is a big deal. Getting laid is like a fucking achievement to tick off so much that you don't even enjoy the moment you're just happy you're not a loser virgin.

But you don't have to take it too hard. I get it, being a man, being a Chad, being a hero of your own, but really, was it worth to be depressed for?

>>21977751
I can’t agree with that first paragraph. It would be radically depressing to accept.

>>21977857
I wasn’t making excuses. I merely pointed out that you are lacking key context.

>>21974709
>20 years to solvency
>most people go to college at 18
>so they become net positive at 38
>so they have another 20 years of work with an inflated wage due to a degree

?????

>>21974873
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THERE ARE NO JOBS, I MUST LIVE IN THE HECKIN BIG CITY JUST LIKE ONE OF MY FAVOURITE ROMCOMS

retard alert, any mid size city has just as many well payed jobs, at a fraction of the cost of living. then if you actually wanna move to a big city later on you wont be starting from scratch tying to make ends meet on suicide fuel wages

>>21977964
>BUT I WANT TO WORK A LE GOOOGLE PLEEASE I NEED TO BE WORKING FOR THE BIGGEST COMPANIES IN THE WORLD IMMEDIATELY OR I HAVE FAILED
just stop, get a fucking normal job in your industry at a medium business (if its top 100 company its completely fine) and work your way up for 5 years. then youll be getting jerked off by recruiters no matter where you go and money will no longer be a problem
t. CPA

>>21973612
i started shaving at 19. Didnt even have enough hair back then

>>21977911

Yeah but you come out of that, and don't care any more. It is depressing as fuck but the human spirit moves on. at /lit/ we are reading the works of great men who found their calling, out of so so many who didn't. Half those great men are depressed anyway.

>>21977990
It sounds to me more like suppressing your spirit and moving on. How can anyone accept that there’s no real purpose for their life? I mean, I thought like that for a while after I read Cioran, and for a while, I did feel some relaxation but it didn’t really help me in the long run. In fact, I came to regret it because it caused me to be apathetic and stagnate.

>>21977904

Yeah, I don't even know what I'm trying to say here. I was never a chad but I could get girls. Never found love though.

Nah it wasn't worth being depressed for and telling myself I was depressed and lacking because of it is what kept me in that place. If I had just truly not gave a fuck at all about it then I'd probably have met someone.

I did get pretty good at skiing an reach ultimate heights of fun times and adventure that way. But as a young man, you're too dumb and too caught up in the hustle of that stuff to actually enjoy it for the deep fulfilling thing that it was. I was always trying to just be a better skier and do the bigger line and never slowed down to think how freaking lucky I was and how cool this experience really was. Youth is wasted on the young.

>>21977960
20 years from graduation and not all students start at 18. Only about half of college students graduate within 6 years anyway.

Delete social media, they said. You'll spend less time on the screen, they said. Then I wasted too much time on 4chan.

>>21977997

Nah it isn't like that. The spirit moves on and marches forward. It is not suppressed or dulled by the lack of a calling. You simply realize you don't need a calling at all, that life itself is worth more than whatever you perceived to be a calling before hand.

Maybe you're right and I'm wrong. Maybe I need a calling. For goodness sake though If I find something I hope it isn't any of the shallow neurotic endeavors I was obsessed with in my youth.

>>21978002
so dont be a mouthbreathing retard?

choose a good degree, get scholarships, go local then switch to bigger college in state, work in summer, actually go to class. its fucking free money retard

>>21978018
I think by calling he just means the manifestation of the spirit. What you absolutely know your ideal self would want to do once it/you cut through all the goddamn bullshit of expectation, self-image, and bad people in your life.

I know exactly what my calling is. It's to write. I want to write a novel or two that reshape the literary landscape. Yet I'm here on 4chan procrastinating. I know *intuitively* what that calling is and yet I allow myself--and I am allowed--not to be working on that at this very moment. Everyone has a calling and it's the manifestation of what we know we want to do, which is ethical and not only for us but for others.

>>21978033

You are researching my friend. The time will come to write.

I guess my ideal self never happened, got beat around by expectation, self image and bad people. Spent too long being sad about that, I realized that just living life as much as I could was enough.

I'd like to write something that is a decent book in my country, there's not much that's come out of here that's got any oomph. I think your dream is a noble one actually, anything worth doing is something worth doing well.

>>21978029
Oh okay. Just meticulously engineer an education you don’t even want so you can reach solvency in your 40s. Got it.

>>21978033
That’s something like what I meant, yeah. I feel like we have to escape meaninglessness and apathy and do something worthwhile with our lives.

>>21978014
Brutal. I literally had a prepaid phone card until I was 21. Thus, I never installed / used any of the common social media applications that people my age use. I literally do not have contact with a single person that I met all throughout my HS years. And even now with all the apps installed, all friends lists are obviously empty.

But hey, at least I did not fall prey to a sexual predator, thanks mom. Your paranoia really saved me there.

>>21978127
Hey, I also use prepaid. Didn't stop me from making a circle of friends that I see on the regular during weekends. But yeah, maybe I also come from a country where young people are given more freedom. I remember spending hours outside as a teenager under the sun doing whatever with my friends. Maybe unconventional for the average zoomer.

My plan is to do nothing and once the regrets become too hard to deal with, I'll just kill myself
I've never expected anything out of life. I don't know why I even exist

>>21972939
> I drink one beer, I get a nasty headache
That's not normal, anon.

>>21978014
I only came to 4channel after I found myself working alone, living alone, and all of my friends gone.

>>21969514
Maybe he just prefers more meaningful friendships such as the one he has with you and at some point grew weary of large groups. I avoided quite a few group get togethers because of cliques and all around drama. See if he'd like to do some more laidback activities that can result socialization and even a bit of exercise but with a lot less pressure and large groups to mingle in. Never knew I'd like fishing if it weren't for a few friends

I feel pathetic for spending 13 years in school, then kicked out as a persona non grata. Books for this feel?

>>21978215
Maybe the tartar steppe

Honestly, the hard part of turning 30 wasn’t realizing where I wanted to go, along with where I should have been to get there although that did happen. It was feeling like basically nothing happened. I didn’t know what to do so I didn’t really do anything nor did I really go anywhere. When I think about the sense of apathy, I think about Catcher in the Rye.

>>21969514
you want to bring down this entire boatd

>>21978149
The fact that you think it matters that you "don't know why [you] even exist" tells us that you have some sort of underlying principle or value. I think it would be interesting if people decided to explore what values and principles underlay their existences.

>>21978371
I believe there are some parts of life that, if not experienced (and if not experienced properly and at the right time) make life worthless.
I don't know why I exist because I am tied to nothing, good at nothing, I have no calling or path, I'm just waiting to die

>>21978389
Such as what?

>>21977084
Living the dream
>Deformed hermit living in a pot but he still browses 4chan
Based

>>21978398
Friends and love, mostly. It seems to me that lack of those during formative years lead to maladjusted adults and neuroses that cannot be fixed.

>>21978405
Truth. There's no way around it.

>>21978408
Now the question that fucks with me is, is it better to seek to acquire those things nonetheless, or is it better to give up altogether? Is the pain of trying worth a potential reward that'll always be inferior to what you missed out on? Is the familiarity of regret less painful?

>>21978428
I gave up, personally. Some people aren't wired for it, and it can take a lifetime to boil all the copes away until you just accept you were malformed, whether by your hand or others' (it doesn't matter at that point, it's usually both).

>>21978437
Can you ever truly give up without rancor and bitterness eating at you until you kill yourself?

>>21978063
have you ever heard the term delated gratification?

these arent complicated things to do either

>>21978442
I signed a prenatal contract maybe to answer just this question. It's easy to lose the pernicious incel/redpill culture copes quick but just the actual human reality of dying emotionally starved and basically a genomic and even planetary fucking reject is a whole other magnitude of pain.

>>21978455
SPELLING MISTAKE OH NONONONONO
its so fucking over, universitycels I've let you down

>>21978456
What I find most difficult to accept is the fact that the game was always rigged. It's not that love and friendship are inaccessible, it's that me being an absolute social retard in a way that is deeply ingrained into my being, so that my attractiveness and charisma are nonexistent regardless of how much effort I put into it, will always make me a contender for a second-rate human experience at best.
I'll make friends, but I'll always be too weird to not be a burden to them. I might even find someone with enough poor judgment to want to live their life with me, but it'll be out of a desire to not be alone, settling with someone you'd never even throw a glance at were it not for the looming shadow of solitude getting more and more substantial as time passes.
Basically there are two kinds of experiences of life, and the first one is forever closed off, while the second can barely be called a consolation prize.

>>21978479
I guess I like Nietzsche for that reason. I've never read a book of his cover to cover, but it's all about one thing: the difference between these two orders is radical and incommensurable. It's astonishing how much time can be pissed away without any kind of consolation, and how many copes can accumulate on your side that you're going to need years to deprogram and see behind the back of. It's like I am or we are epigenetically damned. There has to be a snappier word for that, something that encompasses both genetics and epigenetics, deeper than biological properties and more to do with how certain bodies are formally guaranteed to self-terminate. I've gotten to the point where even striving for a better life would feel "cucked" and admitting my own failure.

>>21978499
>the difference between these two orders is radical and incommensurable
I guess that's what is so frustrating about the so often parrotted opposite worldview, according to which all human experiences are atomized and self-referential, "there are no benchmarks", "everyone does things at their own pace", "there are no right answers", and so on. This lacks an intuitive and self-evident component that's hard to explain but so obvious to me. No, my experience of life is not as inherently valuable as all others, because I'm to social adjustment what paraplegics are to cross country running.
>even striving for a better life would feel "cucked"
Yes, because striving for it makes it pointless in the first place. If you need to fix it, it's because something's broken, and regardless of whether or not you do fix it, it'll never be the same

>>21978536
There is nothing more horrifying than not only admitting this verticality in human existence but actually feeling it (to the defective underclass). Incel culture would self-lacerate overnight if it could feel it, it's why it's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all. Better in the sense that you see your own condition with greater clarity. That "opposite worldview" is the self-rationalization of a predator that has evolved every means possible to filter defectives like us out.

>>21978567
>the self-rationalization of a predator
I don't think there's an ounce of bad faith in it, but it's a hard stance to prove wrong in that everything can always be relativized with that kind of worldview. "So what if you're forty, if you remain positive and open maybe you can find love and happiness too." There's nothing inherently wrong in that statement, but it suggests something abhorrent and vastly more depressing than a simple honest admission of your inadequacy

>>21978580
There is no bad faith in it, they believe it, they can't extrapolate downwards from their own condition, it's not in their wiring to admit this verticality. And not because "they" are all secretly socioapthic or dumb NPCs. No, their lives ARE more valuable, they do think brighter and cleaner thoughts, their bodies are lighter than ours in a very radical sense. A long time ago after a bad break-up, one of my dudebro co-workers at my bar job recited a poem to me that he got published, and which was actually pretty good. I smoked a bowl that night after work and went home and just broke the fuck down crying because I knew that this guy and the girl that I had broken up with belong to a world I will never be a part of and that I will never speak to, and that I can bleed all I want but I'll never be able to transmute it into anything meaningful for them because I am just some broken faggot alien fading away on the sidelines. I never got over any of those years. It just kind of goes dormant and crystallizes. I don't know what to tell you.

>>21978611
>their lives ARE more valuable, they do think brighter and cleaner thoughts, their bodies are lighter than ours in a very radical sense
Yes, you expressed it, I was thinking exactly that but couldn't articulate it. There's no nobility in our worthlessness, suffering doesn't make us purer, on the contrary it produces a bitterness that poisons everything around.
I feel like normal people are "full", in that there's some kind of light inside them, something substantial and grounding. When I look for something similar, I find nothing, I feel empty

>>21978648
As another anon once here said, we lack a concrete sense of self, a cohesion that others are inexplicably gifted with (but is still somehow continuous with all the problems of the world - but one of the hardest things I've ever had to accept is that my worthlessness makes me incapable of fairly judging "their" world and its flaws).

>When I look for something similar, I find nothing, I feel empty
I lost it that night for this very reason.

>>21978665
I agree. What's the purpose of all of this? Is it meaningless anyway, just a blunder? What are the metaphysical implications of this kind of existence?
> my worthlessness makes me incapable of fairly judging "their" world and its flaws
Could you explain this?
>I lost it that night for this very reason.
My own evenings are getting tougher. I'm not sure how I'm going to keep holding it together

>>21978694
I think the horror is that there are no metaphysical implications. If you can't transmute this into something pure, for others or within yourself, you're proof that Calvin was right and that hell is predestined.

>Could you explain this?
Who am I to judge institutions, governments, households, workplaces, and nations run by primarily adult men and women who have properly sexuated, properly achieved some kind of mastery, properly loved and been loved? They have the power, I don't. I can hate power for its excesses but what do I understand about it, really?

>>21978710
>transmute this into something pure, for others or within yourself
Is it even possible?
>They have the power
This drives home the point that our presence in the world as a whole is anomalous. Everything in nature and society tells me I am an error and should not exist. But there is nothing to do with that alienation, no outlet for it

>>21978723
Some people do find an outlet, but they were already predisposed to speak to others, and this power doesn't care about your metaphysical "class." See: my dudebro friend, who'd mack lawyer girls in front of me but also get poems about beauty published in journals. I don't hate these people, or think they're undeserving. They just possess an objective mastery and grace. You just know it when you've seen it long enough, and especially if you lack it. While we're on the topic, gotta love Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and its history of gaslighting shit-eaters who know in their bones they were born to eat shit. Nothing that you or I are saying right now is irrational.

>>21978738
>they were already predisposed
At this point I don't seek an outlet that would grant me external approval, I seek a way to make the burden of these emotions lighter so that I don't fantasize about getting shot to death in a mugging every time my mind wanders
>objective mastery and grace
I know, I see it. From the way they talk, to the way they move, to how they think, it's never quite the same from person to person, because they're all individuals (unlike us), but it's a particular kind of energy that I find myself completely lacking and that acts as a key to navigating life successfully. It can't be learned, you either have it or you don't.
>Cognitive Behavioral Therapy
I tried therapy, it only comforted me in my assumptions. The worst was when I started analyzing my dreams

>>21978752
>From the way they talk, to the way they move, to how they think, it's never quite the same from person to person, because they're all individuals (unlike us), but it's a particular kind of energy that I find myself completely lacking and that acts as a key to navigating life successfully.
Exactly, they're all individuals but it feels so universal between them. I'm not fucking crazy.

Well, I'm not saying write poems or become a novelist. The ship has sailed on us being the voices of a generation. If you have any addictions, you can start by renouncing them. I promise you'll feel lighter. Won't cure shit though, or maybe it will. You're not me. For all I know, my hell is so total even you're destined for a glow-up.

>>21978772
Truly separate worlds. We live in the same place physically but it's like we're ghosts and they're people. The analogy carries on to relationships because I feel like I just haunt my friends' lives and poison them with my bottomless void of a worldview
>I'm not fucking crazy
Not at all. Last time I was at a bar and saw a friend of mine talk to a girl, then he came talk to me about the "cues" she'd given him. From the way he had interacted with her and her responses, although I understood nothing of their nonverbal communication intellectually, I simply felt that something had happened, whereas when I talk to anyone, there is no spark, no chemistry, nothing. Just me pretending to be a human being while giving off none of what is essential and expected in communication between two real people. This carries on to body language in general, of course. People instantly know what you are when you walk into a room.
>addictions
Alcohol makes things easier. I was about to get a drink but I'm on a three day bender already and I don't want to add alcoholism on top of my other problems. Don't you feel alleviated by substance use, honestly?
>my hell is so total
We seem to feel similar. From everything you've said, I can feel your predicament, I don't just understand it, I know. I think no matter what happens, this piece of us that's missing will always be a hindrance, and our nature will always be emptiness

>>21978793
It's so fucking weird, it's like my life is like some weird inverse Invasion of the Body Snatchers type deal. Except it isn't some grotesque alien parasite I'm afraid of but light, that someone I know and am comfortable with could actually (potentially) be one of the beautiful ones. and I don't mean beautiful in a superficial way. Any time someone I've known has done something that has suggested some kind of talent or mastery or proficiency at something I've failed abominably at (like music), I snap shut. My perception of them changes. I know that this person is, in a very real sense, now off-limits. You can't imagine how agonizing this feeling is in a romantic relationship, but don't worry mine have been rare, brief, and catastrophic. Or maybe you can. Substance use is the only thing that has kept me alive. I will always be empty. I hope you find peace.

>>21978819
Is it just mastery and proficiency, or just a general evidence that the person belongs to the human "upper class"? Do you actively seek out people whom you feel are similar to you - and if so, where do you find them?
The only two friends I have (I say friends in the sense that I feel like my affection for them is reciprocated, and that they're kind enough to maintain a relationship with me despite my worthlessness as a person bringing them down) could be described as those "beautiful ones" in the most painful way. Every second I spend with them is an excruciating reminder of my inadequacies and shortcomings, but they're the only people who keep me connected to reality, and I care about them. I'm terrified of the day when my poisonous presence becomes too much and we inevitably drift away from each other.
>in a romantic relationship
I can't imagine, but I assume it's even worse than what I just described. I'm unable to imagine myself in that context, romantic relationships seem off limit, like a switch that can never be flipped.

I hope you find peace as well.

>>21978852
>Is it just mastery and proficiency, or just a general evidence that the person belongs to the human "upper class"?
Are these things mutually exclusive? Not in my experience. There are exceptions but I don't feel like hair-splitting. And it doesn't have to be something as concrete as some artistic talent, body count, or money they make. It can just be the fact that they don't stammer when they have something real to say. They're not flustered by their awareness of others' awareness of them. It's something basal, cthonic, and like you say: unteachable. I remember in an English class in college once, I was trying to sound deep and profound and the professor was a younger guy who clowned on me for trying to link artistic integrity with the "human condition", and clowned on me for sounding like such a wuss. But he listened when one of those pretty spitfire girls every class like this happens to have started calling the curriculum bullshit. I felt like a kindergartener, and she was an adult. Gave up after that.

It's how we were woven at the root. Good luck with everything.

>>21978886
Yes, it's inherent and almost indescribable, and those who have it don't seem to notice they do, you can only feel its absence in yourself. I feel like the archons in gnostic myths who can only watch helplessly as the sparks of light that they lack elude all attempts to be captured or replicated.
>I felt like a kindergartener, and she was an adult.
God, I feel this too much. There really is an infantilizing aspect to being this socially maladjusted. It's unconsciously internalized, and causes some kind of automatic deference and submission to anyone perceived to have a grounded sense of identity.

I don't know if luck is enough. Either way, I find a bit of solace in knowing there's at least one other person out there who's articulated these thoughts in the exact same way I have, more eloquently but with the exact same conclusions and implications. Thank you for the discussion.

>>21978852
>>21978886
Wow anons, I have a tear in my eye. Very tender conversation. Thank you for that.

There was a dissed painter anon who use to say same things like these 2 years ago. I have read many conversations of his. He was suicidal, extremely sensitive and lonely. His only wish was to get some validation for his art from somewhere and he didn't receive any. He was a hard worker and wrote and painted everyday but the last time I read his post he was talking about burning his whole art. This reminded me of him for some reason. I wonder where he is now...

>>21978933
Well said. And it's telling you feel like the archons instead of fancying yourself the imprisoned spark of light. I feel like those archons in Manichaean myth who can only watch as the nude light-beings descend in rapturous horror, unable to possess them because they are constitutively incapable of possessing themselves. I think you and I are sons of a lesser god, an idiot Maker. I'm no misunderstood pneumatic all right.

>There really is an infantilizing aspect to being this socially maladjusted. It's unconsciously internalized, and causes some kind of automatic deference and submission to anyone perceived to have a grounded sense of identity.
Couldn't have put it better myself. This feeling made me walk out on so many house parties without so much as saying goodbye to the people I came with when I was younger. Jobs, too. It's strange to hear it so well said after so long. It feels like something's come full circle. I'll leave you to it. Thanks for the discussion as well.

>>21970237
I'm 21 and in constant back pain from scoliosis, sit down gramps