/lit/ - Literature

>>21953528
writing is a easy task, just look around yourself and capture your emotions or thoughts at the moment and put them on a paper, you would start to see improvement. you can do that right now. come on give it a go

>>21953528
this was the best i could do.

>>21953584
mmhmm!, yup!, checks out

>Fucking do it
>Write

if you have to include graphic sex in everything you write then your writing is not good

You did write your 2000 daily words today, right /wg/?

>>21953826
nope not a single letter

>>21953826
Stupid smug anime poster.
>my day has even begun.

>>21953528
Threadly reminder that if you spend more time on world building and explaining your magic system. You are not writing a progression fantasy but an autistic dialogue filler of a wank fest.

>>21953889
I hate what has become of the phrase "world building".

Monsters do not exist in a vacuum. There is context to why they are there, how they behave, and how the MC can kill them. Indulging that is how you regain the wonder in the fantasy genre

>inb4 just summon them with magic

>>21953644
I wrote 500 words this morning. I am gonna start doing that more often instead of doing so little else before work.

>>21953974
>There is context to why they are there, how they behave, and how the MC can kill them.
maybe, but are you competent enough to make it interesting?

>>21954230
Yes.

>pic related
Question about writing in the third person limited. At the end of the paragraph, I have a single sentence that I wrote in three different ways. I want to know if any of them are simply wrong for writing in third person limited or if they carry different meanings at all. Personally, I don't like using italics to write character thoughts, but sometimes in writing, I don't add 'they thought' to the end, like in the first example. Anyone willing to share their thoughts on how this should read?

>>21954785
I'm partial to the third one. It connects it back to the start of the paragraph reinforcing the whole thing as his thoughts, and the italics make it a bit clearer

>>21954785
I like the first option, for the opposite reason that >>21954801 stated - the double use of "thought" in such a short span felt a bit repetitive to me. I guess it really is different strokes for different folks.

>>21953826
Yes, I already finished before I went to sleep at 4AM.

>>21953644
Was Fitzgerald the best prose writer among his contemporaries?

>>21953826
Yeah, but I deleted most of it and I'm currently rewriting it. It's just smut anyway.

>>21954246
Citation required.
>>21954785
Anything with italics must be deleted.
>>21953584
At first i thought you were trying to hard but then you kept on trying.

>>21954785
Fourth option: "I'm not going anywhere", in italics, sans "he thought"

Will they laugh at me if I tell them I'm writing a comic script...

But seriously, I've been writing, finishing and revising this for so long that it has become stale to me, to the point that I cannot bring myself to do the final revision and actually draw the damn thing. You really should strike the iron while it's hot. It also explains why some mangas go downhill after a while, their very authors just get tired of their own creation. Revision hell is creative death.

Looks like it's really best to do just one small self contained story rather than le big ebic DEEEEP multi-faceted nuanced morally grey LE MASTERPIECE. We get bombarded with tales of praise of these great writers and come to think we cannot afford to do anything less in order to be even considered, everything that's being made HAS to be the best thing ever or it's automatically shit. Expectations. We're asking too much of ourselves, nobody will make a great piece or even a good one on their first go. True creativity probably can only be achieved if art is treated as a hobby and not a job by he who pursues it unless you really are that exceptionally talented that you can live off of it, but I'll stop here

>>21954785
Use the third one. I just check my copy of Dune whenever I need to know how to write something.


also.
>>21954911
filtered

Burnman by Clark Ashe

A despondent electrician is freed from jail in return for joining a treacherous retrieval mission.

In 2085, the world is rocked by the sudden disappearance of artificial intelligence. A series of natural disasters twenty years ago caused a famine which killed roughly five percent of the world's population. Without the assistance of AI, global leaders fear a repeated descent into anarchy. Their concerns lead to the establishment of a United Nations task force, nicknamed the "Burnmen", dedicated to recovering and restoring old AI algorithms at any cost. However, the assignment proves more dangerous than initially thought, as several squads vanish without a trace.

Wilbur Reed is an aimless thirty-something electrician who lives in Northwest Detroit. Despite the city's transformation into an agricultural hub, it still suffers rampant blackouts and supply shortages. When Reed gets caught siphoning electricity on behalf of a friend, he's thrown in jail and left to starve. But his connections soon buy him another chance -- at the brink of life and death.

4fun project but want to see how it turns out. Haven't written anything yet. Action/Adventure/Thriller

>>21953528
I haven't picked up a current year book in so long. Why does everyone use the British dash and single quotes now?

>>21955071
>Will they laugh at me if I tell them I'm writing a comic script...
They'll laugh at you just the same as when you say you're writing a book. A million people are "writing" a book. Until you produce something people will roll their eyes and laugh behind their hands because you're not doing anything.
> I've been writing, finishing and revising this for so long that it has become stale to me, to the point that I cannot bring myself to do the final revision and actually draw the damn thing
>working on a comic strip
>hasn't drawn anything
are you even listening to yourself? there is no comic strip. there is nothing.

>>21955119
gives me hopium as a yank who prefers british spellings
>noooooo you were born on this pile of dirt and not that other pile of dirt, so you have to spell defence as "defense" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
get over it, i'm a denizen of the internet, let me use whichever spelling i want

>>21955119
As a child I read more british authors than american, Roald Dahl, CS Lewis, Richard Adams, JRR Tolkien, and as a result I prefer british spellings and turns of phrase to american ones. I also took latin in school and a number of english words the biritsh spelling is closer to the latin root. theatre, for instance, from the latin theatrum. grey instead of gray because I don't like fags.

Basically what I'm saying is british english has many more centuries of writing and history than american english, so I tend to prefer it.

>>21955177

But anon, consider "defensive" and now you realize why "defense" makes more sense.

>>21955192
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>21954785
1st

>>21953528
The elevator came to a complete halt, making it's five occupants jerk inside with the suddenness. The power went out and the emergency back up came on in the space of ten seconds. Enough time to be encapsulated in a blinding darkness that made Chanel make a sharp gasp of surprise.

"What was that?" Vera questioned as she regained her balance.

"Power outage," Videl answered her," It's just a power outage. Everyone stay calm,"

"That's the first time this happened," Colson mused to Chanel.

"It's not the first time, at least not for me," Videl said, calmly.

"You're saying this is a repeating problem?" Bernice asked, incredously," What the fuck? Why hasn't this been fixed already?"

"It's just teething problems. It'll sort itself out after ten minutes or so," Videl assuaged.

Bernice gave Videl a sour look but chose to seal his lips as he brought out his phone and saw that he had no bars at all.

"Does anyone have service on their phone?" Bernice questioned," Mine is out,"

Colson and Vera checked their phones.

"No service," Colson said.

"No service either," Vera said as she gazed at her phone.

"That's great," Berince jested before looking at Videl," Is this part of the power outage too?"

"I never noticed," Videl softly smiled.

"Damn it," Bernice muttered under his breath, the irritability getting to him.

Chanel hooked an arm around Colson's and rested her head against his shoulder.

"And to think we could have left early without so much as a travail," Chanel softly said.

"Have faith," Colson softly squeezed her hand in comfort," Mr. Videl said it'll be ten minutes at the most. That is your name, isn't it?"

"That's kind of you to notice a lowly security guard," Videl mused.

>>21955326
>mused
in neither of the lines of dialogue are they musing
>assuaged
what's wrong with said? and every line has dialogue tags or people fussing and bussing and dancing and whatever else.
>Bernice muttered under his breath
I did not know Bernice was a man's name
>And to think we could have left early without so much as a travail
I don't think travail is the correct word. Even if it is the correct word - it isn't - you shouldn't use it in the way you've used it.

>>21955355
"Oy vey, muh shekels," Goldberg chucked.

"This is anudda shoah!" he sneeded.

>>21955149
>there is nothing.
My point exactly!

>The good woman is chased.
Sometimes I write a sentence and then think to myself "that's a really good sentence"

>>21955514
Reminds me of a joke my father made a couple of times.
"Your mother was chaste, and then I caught her."
It works better when spoken instead of written, but I've always found it to be very funny.

>>21955106
You have my interest. Synopsis was written well and I like the concept. Definitely write it.

How do I do on atmosphere and making you feel for my character's safety and creating while trying to maintain an impending sense of doom and dread?

>>21953826
I've made my goal to write 3000, words every day.
Last week I couldn't manage over 50.
Now I'm writing 300 a day so far. So one of these I hope

>>21955642
An issue you have throughout the entire piece is you spend 10 words saying something when 3 would do. Example:
>Another reason I wanted to get the ball and go back to my car so I could drive home was that dusk was looming
This is a lot of extraneous unnecessary information
>but I was too caught up in a mixture of confusion and fear, which had left me paralysed as my eyes locked with the eyes of this strange humanoid ape-like creature that was just sitting quietly perched on a rock observing me minding its own buisness.
Holy run on sentence. Tighten it up. If you want to add tension remove the part where he perceives the monster as just minding its own business.
>The thing sat staring at me. A hairy humanoid, an ape-like creature with a jutting jaw and neanderthal brow, perched on a nearby rock. It saw me, and it saw me seeing it. I should've slowly stood up and backed off - I should've spun around and torn off through the woods running as fast as I could - but I couldn't. I couldn't move, I couldn't yell, I couldn't think. All I could do in that moment was sit paralyzed in fear.

Did anon ever post more than 4 of these?

>>21955774
>It saw me, and it saw me seeing it.
on reread it should be: It saw me, and it saw that I saw it.

Does this make any sense
“Nativity as a symptom of age is cured only by the origin of the ailment itself”

>>21955782
no
did you mean "naivety"?
even then it doesn't make sense

>>21955791
Sorry, yes. English not first language.
Why doesn’t this work?
I want to say that she causes one to be naive (youth) but it is also cured by aging itself. How would I alter my sentence?

>>21955801
I meant age* not she

>>21955801
To reword it, you'd need to use age as a verb so that the reader understands that some aging results in naivety, but more aging cures it. Otherwise you're writing "Naivety as a symptom of [being young] is cured only by [being young]." which doesn't make sense.

>>21955782
>We are made naive by age, and cured of this very ailment by the continuation of its cause.

>>21955902
my reading comprehension is retarded
it should actually be
>Naivety, as a symptom of one's age, is cured by further passage of time.

>>21955777
The mad anon wrote his hackwork, scribbling.

ESLtard writing in English here. How the fuck do you call or describe the action being done in pic related? Like putting your elbows on the table or whatever and putting your head into your hands as an expression of feeling depressed and/or defeated.
I feel like there's a phrase or expression for this but I can't fucking figure it out.

>>21956153
>I feel like there's a phrase or expression for this
You'd think so.
You'd really fucking think so.

>>21956153
Anon sat down at the table, despondent that he had failed to meet his daily word count goal yet again. With a sigh, he rested his head on his hands and wondered if he would ever finish his manuscript.

>>21956153
i say 'he rested his head on his hands' but im not sure if thats too vague to picture

>>21956163
Being ESL is a nightmare, you never know if you're just stupid or if there's simply no proper word to describe something you want to depict in text without being confusing.
>>21956168
>>21956175
So I guess it really is just "to rest one's head on one's hands"? Does it implicitly suggest that the elbows are on the table like that?
What if the palms cover the whole face instead of the cheeks?

>>21956153
>people who browse the internet so much their brain can only form thoughts in visual meme format

rip your router out of your wall and throw your phone in the trash.

>>21956187
i think being caught up in super specific details like that will bog down the narration. there are times you just have to depend on the reader to get the implication. >>21956168 this is pretty vivid enough to get the picture. it all depends on the context

>>21956196
What the fuck are you talking about? How is this a fucking meme format? It's a stickman drawing I made in paint. Get the stick out of your ass.
>>21956201
All right, seems like it's clear enough like that. Thanks.

>>21956187
"Where did it go wrong?" he mused. "All I wanted was to figure out how to properly depict a scene, but instead I spent all day drawing stick figures and arguing with shitposters on the internet."
Anon covered his face and rubbed his exhausted eyes. Writing in a second language was so much more difficult than he had imagined.

>>21956153
He rested his chin on his hands. But if you want more context for the character being upset he could be leaning on his hands or some other verb that could describe how the posture looks. Maybe even emphasis where he's looking, a facial description, something like that to add to it if necessary.
Since you mentioned it, if someone is upset and covers their face, it is "burying your face in your hands" or "holding your head in your hands."

>>21956244
Joke's on you, I already wrote 1100 words today, which is way above my average.
Anyway, that's enough avatarfagging, thanks for your help anons.
>>21956268
>"burying your face in your hands"
That's a good one, much appreciated.

>>21956274
Perhaps not all was lost, though. Advice was given and advice was taken. Brief breaks were healthy for both mind and body. There was no shame in taking some time off to improve his craft. Spirits uplifted, he opened his eyes again and began anew on the endless work.

Is fanfiction valid here or will that get me chased out of the room

>>21956352
literally anything other than unreadable wannabe ulysses type shit will get random spergs trying to chase you off

>>21955782
"The young are naive, but it never lasts."

Adjust your pronouns and tenses as necessary

>>21956352
Post it, don't worry too much about anonymous chuds who don't write.

if I post my work here will normies discriminate against me? assuming I eventually want to publish traditionally

>>21956352
i was told it is against the rules, but i'd like to open discussion to it, since fanfiction is no less valid than animewriting and genreshit

>>21956386
Literally nobody cares dude, if you think you're going to get trad pubbed, you're fucking dreaming.

>>21956386
I would ask these normies to explain how they knew it was posted here.

there's nothing more pathetic than daydreaming about getting canceled before you've even finished a short story
what a fucking loser

>>21956386
You're not getting tradpubbed unless you:

- are a nigger, a woman, a tranny, disabled, etc

- have a non-white sounding name

- are one of the protected races (not white or lightskinned nonwhite, unless you're a jew)

- write fiction which toes the political line or is otherwise aggressively inoffensive

Pick at least three of these. If you qualify, you may have a chance at getting tradpubbed.

The silver bullet is knowing someone in publishing, in which case almost any hack can get published

>>21956398
I will get traditionally published.

>>21956409
this is a pretty aggressive statement to make lol. shit on the wrong side of the bed?

Someone explain the Unreal Press/&amp drama

https://boards.4channel.org/lit/thread/21956468#bottom

>>21956709
I was part of their server a few years ago, I guess it's a good thing I never got too involved.
They had a weird culture around doxxing, as in the active users felt entitled to know everyone's personal information because "everyone's already doxxed". The fact that someone is just sharing the doxx that they already possessed doesn't surprise me at all. The server was dominated by schizo ramblings and pretentiousness, it was just a matter of time before someone blew it all up.

2000 words a day is fucking insane. It takes me an hour to an hour and a half to write just 500 words. I don't have 5 hours to spend on writing per day.

>>21956709
schizos think some guy is gonna dox them so they do a bit of the ol' Roman "pre-emptive defensive retaliation" and dox him instead

>>21956398
>From the left
You did NOT need to tell me that.

>>21956758
2000 words a day isn't really necessary at all. It tickles me that this community makes up rules for others to follow without proving their own success. It comes off as sabotage honestly

>>21956787
If you don't realize that the 2000 words a day poster is a sabotaging crab by his image alone I don't know what to tell you.

>>21956731
That place was a powder keg waiting to blow, and Rhyme decided to light the match

>>21956804
at this point the magazine is obsolete anyway, if you actually want to write and get feedback you can do that immediately through any of the resources in this general. a lot of the magazine submissions were either trolls or edgy accelerationist tripe. very few stories of real interest

>>21956731
>redditscord
so for anyone wondering why whenever some fag shows up here whining about making some discord server and people tell him to fuck off, remember this. nothing good comes from discord.

>>21956818
are you talking about &amp or unreal?

>>21956731
Their tranny host actually has the nerve to describe himself as a “published author.” Of course he neglects to mention the bit about being SELF published.

>>21956862
i'm talking about unreal but from what i've read of &amp they suffered from quality control issues too. just throw all the ecelebs in the trash

Has there been a good book that came out of this shithole?

>>21956897
Son of the Sun by Charles Dearmore was good

>>21956897
>inb4 some nesmernigger says Eggplant

It’s not good

test

>>21956897
my diary desu

>>21956897
I rather liked "Son Of The Sun" (as >>21956903 said) as well as "Salvation On Peril Island" by Nash Knight, and "Xenos Depths" by Michael D. Cinder.

>>21956411
Where the fuck do white men get all this hate from
I don't see any of them whipping slaves or beating and raping women.
Why are they treated like they're doing all of that and more?
I think it's just some social media thing and secretly women only want to fuck white men but on the outside they have to pretend they don't or something.
It's so bizzare.

Hey writers.
Here’s food for thought.
Conscription is genocide. forcing Ukrainians to be pawns is MURDER and it is WRONG and EVIL. The war can be ended immediately and the land being fought for is WORTHLESS and mostly populated by Russians.

>>21957163
You know who.

>>21957167
Ukranians are dogs.
Let them all die and the world will be better off.
I hope Russia nukes Israel off the face of the earth.
I hope the Jewnited states falls in our lifetime.

21957167
The war in Ukraine is based because it is another American proxy war against Russia.
Also, writing, please fuck off.

>>21957163
haha I dunno haha I bet it's just some social media thing like you said tho
haha

>>21957167
Money shouldn’t be spent on killing more Russians.
I love both Russians and Ukrainians. It feels like people are trying to kill as many whites as possible.

We can effortlessly resettle millions of Ukrainians in Canada, Argentina, and Australia. Canada is the size of Europe and WANTS white immigrants.

A true Ukrainian leader calls the war off immediately, refuses to be a puppet, gives Russia the token land, and becomes a beautiful neutral utopia like Switzerland and Japan.

What must we do for divinity now!

>>21957176
>Move more immigrants into Canada
Fucking kill yourself. We're full. We've been full for decades now.
It's just Pajeets and Niggers everywhere you look.
Fuck off and die for your own country and stop invading mine, you fucking faggots.
I will raise a glass the day Trudeau is assassinated.
We could have used more like Shinzo Abe but he was killed instead.
Justice has been sorely lacking in the world.

Great, we are getting raided by schizo retards. Can't you fuck off to /pol/ or at least make your own thread?

>>21957183
You first.
Stop giving them attention, retard.

I have terrifying news, the so called Democrats have apparently called off all presidential debates because of fear of tulsi. They are not true Americans, they are trying to murder democracy.
Look up ex-gov cuomos “goy speech”

The only god is love, the only way is love, the only motive is love, the only power, force, and will IS LOVE.
ALL VICTORY ALWAYS TO EDOMITES AND CANAANITES ETC!

>>21957181
You aren’t Canadian.
You are trying to demoralize people by telling lies. Canada has a massively rapidly increasing white population. Canadians WANT white immigrants. You FEAR white immigrants.


All blessings to you being killed instead of the Ukrainians.
And all blessings to Shinzo Abe and Trudeau. I love that Trudeau is the perfect neutral Dixie Nazi that makes Israel crumple up and die in every way.

Canada is eternal. Israel isn’t.

>>21953569
I found a way to make myself have a bowel movement. I learned the hard way when I was driving to work. Driving has always made me anxious, and the rush in the morning to get to the office amplified the feeling. The problem is, is that morning is usually when I have a bowel movement. So, I'd get up, shower, hop in the car with only 30 minutes until clock-in, and 20 minutes on the road, and 10 minutes in to my drive, all worked up from the traffic, its stop and go pace, my eyes darting from the gridlock to the clock, I felt that dreadful drop in my stomach. I looked for an off-ramp, but I thought maybe I could make it, that I was close enough to the office and could hold it. As I raced through the parking ramp, looking for a place to park, the drop in my stomach turned to a push. I tried to hold it back but my sphincter relented. I called my boss from the parking ramp, said I was sick, and wouldn't be in that day. I drove home, sitting in my shit.
Later, I thought about Jacques Lacan, and his seminar on anxiety. In the seminar, he made a connection between anxiety and shitting. I thought about this, how my need to shit seemed to kick up when I was driving. Knowing that driving made me anxious, I made the connection. So, before I went to work, I learned to make myself anxious, that it would release my bowels, force a movement. I usually had to do this three or four times in the morning, but I never shit my pants again. Although there were a few close calls.

Can any of you anons give me some criticism? I want to know is there's anything wrong or if it's okay.
>Part 1

After seeing what’s been going on in the news and ordering a pizza to eat while we watched some re-runs on the flat-screen we turned in at around 9:20 PM. Penny said that we would have a long day ahead of us after we drove up north-east to the Lake and that It would be a good idea to get a full night’s rest.

I had been okay with that, but well past mid-night I woke up to the sound of some arguing just outside the door. I turned over from my bed to see that Penny’s bed was empty.

I rubbed at my eyes and tried to listen to what I heard. Sitting up on my elbows I was still and then I heard more muffled talking. The window next to the door made it easy to tell someone was standing just outside with their phone up to their head. It didn’t take me long to realize It was Penny.

I thought about just going back to bed but then I heard something that caught my curiosity.

...Married just next month...

What’s she talking about? Maybe... No. She’s been respectful of my privacy so far and anything she’s asked has been answered freely. It would be wrong to eavesdrop on her conversation. I should go back to be-

...Got that loser to help me with it...

I move out of my blanket and get on my feet. I know how to stay silent if I want to, so I slowly make my way to the door and rest my head near the window so I can get a better grasp of the conversation. When I heard that last part I felt a jolt of pain in my chest and I’m not taking any chances. If that’s what she thinks of me I’ll be gone before she knows it.

”-Last month. Now you’re telling me to let it go? I don’t think so. You know I can’t do that.” I hear Penny say.

What the fuck is the conversation about? Fuck. I should have gotten up sooner I’m afraid she’s almost done and I probably won’t have time to figure it out.

“Listen to me, Mom. I know you’re scared for me but you know me. I’m careful.”

She’s talking to her mother?

“Of course. I got my rifle and the revolver. I’m not worried about wildlife. We’ve never had any trouble with animals in 10 years, you know this.”

They’re discussing potential threats and her mother is worried about her getting in trouble out there.

“So yeah, when you go tomorrow just make sure he comes with you. Like I said, he’s a fucking loser but he did help me load the truck and pick out the firearms.” Penny says.

I wasn’t the one she was calling a loser?... I’m a little relieved but I’m still really on edge.

Maybe I should back off and go back to bed now...

“And yes I’ve got help. I met this guy while getting coffee in the morning.”

>Part 2

Okay... I missed my chance to back off so here goes...

“Uh? Mom? Stop!” She says with a hiss to her whisper. “I’m not ready to think about that... Nathan and I were going to get married next month and I’m barely holding on. I can’t think about that right now... It takes me everything to hold back my grief.” Penny says, the pain clear in her voice.

I make my way back to bed as silently as I did when I decided to sneak and pry on her privacy. How I’m going to sleep knowing I’m a huge piece of shit I don’t know, but I always found a way back at the College.

I lay myself back into the covers and in a few minutes Penny opens the door and comes back in. She doesn’t lay on the bed immediately, but instead just sits there for a while before turning in.

She’s looking to find her fiance. Someone who is most likely dead by now. At the risk of finding his body herself. Penny wants the closure she has been denied...

Penny is tall.

And not because of her height.

I’m in a mood. If you’ve got questions, I’ve got answers. Worked in the industry blah blah. And no, I’m not liable to read your work.

>>21957302
how correct are claims like >>21956411?
I heard there was once a shitshow in Spain because a famous "female mystery author" won an award and at the award ceremony it was revealed that it was actually three dudes working under a pseudonym specifically to avoid antimale discrimination

>>21957306
It’s generally untrue and mostly /pol/ level schizo posting mixed with copium for not getting
published.

While there is some truth that there are now programs/publishers that solely focus on publishing lgbtq, female, poc, etc, authors, it’s by no means the gold standard, or even the norm. You’ve got to remember two things. The first is that publishing, thanks to the internet, is so fucking vast and expansive compared to what it once was that niche publishers that cater only the above can exist without treading on the toes of the big five. (And the big five in no means cater solely to those listen above.) Second, women and the lgbtq make up the biggest demographic in these areas. Statistically most writers are female now. Most who work in the industry are female. And most who read are female. (Though genre breakdown can have make domination). The point is, seeing more female writers shouldn’t be surprising. Same with lgbtq writers.

However he is correct about two things. The first is that anyone can be published. Good or bad. Hack or not. Publishers take chances on anyone since trendcashing doesn’t work well in the industry outside of certain niches. Harry Potter got popular because librarians pushed it. Fifty shades is a twilight fanfic that scratched some fucking itch for middle aged women. Both are middling.

The second truth is that it’s a fuckton easier to be published if you know someone within the industry. Networking is important in this business.


Also what in the fuck happened to this thread, and 4chan in general

>>21957336
>Most who work in the industry are female. And most who read are female
Oh, so rather than being an actual conspiracy, it's plain old in-group favoritism.

>>21957339
...Sexism. You're trying to say sexism. That's what it is.

>>21957336
>Publishers take chances on anyone
>harry potter
was rejected a number of times
>50 shades
was self published success first
you don't know shit about shit. I almost expect you actually are in the industry because you're so fucking clueless

>>21957306
>>21957336
To add as an after thought, mostly people care about what you write. At least on the smaller end of the publishing spectrum. Good writing thrives there. Larger end/big 5 publishing is all about impressions and pitching. You’ve got to remember your work is being pitted against literal thousands of others, and if you think your the only sole good story, you would be dead wrong. Not to mention that personal taste can go along way too. The general point is that luck plays a major factor, as the pool of writers is so god damned vast. Statistically 80% of people think they have a story. 60% think they could make a good memoir. As a result more and more traditionally “none white” writers are being published since, you know, the fucking pool is big now. And anons like that can’t cope.

As for the idea that traditional publishing is garbage, I counter that by asking you to produce me a self published title that was a commercial success. No, you cannot use the Martian it’s literally the only example.

>>21957347
Yes sure and who cares. Women can be sexist if they want. I certainly am. And racist. Women now control publishing in ways men used to, men weren't exactly benevolent with that control either.

>>21957359
>self published title that was a commercial success
50 shades, you dunce
colleen hoover

>>21957359
>I counter that by asking you to produce me a self published title that was a commercial success
Not only can I point to one, I can point to one from here: fortysixtyfour's Trailer Trash. Not only did it and does it sell on amazon, it makes the vast majority of its money through Patreon.

Like it or not, serialized web fiction w/ "pay to read ahead" type Patreon schemes is the most viable method for any independent author to make money from their work and start building a fanbase for themselves.

>>21957371
>https://www.patreon.com/FortySixtyFour
>picrel
bruh

>>21957339
Cope.
The point that I’m making is that there is a larger female pool to pull from than male at the moment. We’re talking a fucking 5:1 ratio at least. More female authors means more females published. More females in the industry means more females who get published via networking. The same thing happened when it was male dominated, but I doubt you’d call it sexism then. It’s like decrying that there aren’t enough professional female gamers, when the pool is vastly in favour of nolifer betas grinding out sick dubs, than a female incel who’s better than my boy flower , she probably exists, but she’s drowned out by the sheer volume of also competent male players. Same thing happening here. A ton more female writers who are just as good as you, or better, and so your ass is staying the proverbial pool. Learn to market yourself, or get better.

>>21957354
Wow you cracked the code. Are you published my son?

Explain to me how a publisher chooses whom to publish, and I’ll slap my dick on your face with a response when your done.

Gods these threads are fucking Whiney when compared to several years ago

>>21957384
>but I doubt you’d call it sexism then
no, it was sexism back then too
sneed

>>21957384
>I’ll slap my dick on your face with a response
your circumcised dick, right?

>>21957368
Fiddy shades would not have reached the same amount of success, nor the same audience level without traditional publishing….and it ended up being traditionally published wow big shocker very surprise, many impress.

>>21957371
You are partially correct. Partially.
Trailer trash is nothing, and not what I mean when referring to commercial success. It’s commercially viable, but it is not on the same level hunger games, Harry Potter, gentleman bastards, etc. Fuck not even on the same level as KSBD. Nor as big as the Martian. Whomp whomp. On top of that serialized web fiction is by definition a different medium than traditional publishing.

But if you’ve ever paid attention to my fucking praddlings over the years, you would know that you are fucking correct as shit when it comes to the fact that you need to build an audience before getting published now. It’s what separates people from the crowd, and wether you self publish first, do serialized web fiction, or just have a large Twitter following, it’s what needed nowadays to get published. It’s one of the few metrics which is followed to some degree

>>21957388
aww man guess the pro gamers are sexist. You should start an all female league team.

>>21957394
Stay unpublished.

I notice you didn't say anything about Colleen Hoover, you clownshoes jew. go suck a little yidlings freshly cut dick. thank god online publishing has made you irrelevant

>>21957400
I think the thing about western tradpub that actually makes me completely abandon the idea of going that route is the contrast it has to eastern markets.

You know what happens to successful webnovels in China, Japan, Korea? They get picked up as Light Novels, adapted to comics. More success, and they get adapted to animation, or live dramas, or both.

You will NEVER see this happen in the west outside of insane outliers like Martian or Metro or that dogshit tiktok book that krimsonrogue tore apart recently. Even then the author's sister is an industry insider.

>>21957302
Is sending short stories to magazines still a viable way to make some pocket change?

>>21957415
I’m not sure I agree. It’s happened in western traditional publishing, it’s just not found the same degree of success. KSBD, OJST, LOO and a myriad of others have found some success, and they are “outsiders”. I’d argue the fact that most published work requires authors to have some start online now shows that successful series will find footholds in traditional publishing, it’s just that they have yet to find the same level of success that traditional publish has.

The reason is…unclear at the moment. It’s an interesting debate. Some argue that online web literature has too much of a narrow scope and is formed to fit a niche by need, and as a result will never reach the large audience as some broad appeal is needed. Others have argued that long format web content cannot be adapted to fit various other mediums which causes lack of reach (this is retarded, by the by.) I’ve seen some good arguments however that the movie industry refuses to take chances on web media however, which would limit its reach that way. I think contracts play a large part in it too though, look at wattpad.

The point is it’s a whole ass debate. I submit to you however, good luck being published easternly. The pol nuts think it’s bad here, hooo boy.

Speaking of. Colleen Hoover who?

Magic is real as all is abstract.
Every thought is infinitely abstract.
Every thought is a soul/love.

The only god/power/motive is love.

>>21957463
To make pocket change? Absolutely not. Especially since some magazines will even charge you to publish with them/enter into the pool.

However, it is worth doing for exposure reasons, networking reasons, and obviously showing you can work with an editor/publisher. Plus it shows your involved in the industry. That’s looked at favourably.

Combine it with some form of social media and you’ve got a good start.

>>21957475
>good luck being published easternly
I don't plan to, I don't speak gook or chink or jap or BTS
I'm just gonna stick to the ol' webfic Patreon grind

>>21957463
Oh and thank you for an actual question that isn’t just some seething level copium.

I’ll add that if you love doing short stories, look into doing a chapbook, and look for a chapbook publisher. Same thing as a mag, but also provides a good amount of street cred publishing wise.

>>21957482
I was speaking of the ones where they pay you for submissions, such as publishers like Apex Magazine or Clarkesworld, since I mostly write pulp and fantasy. George R. R. Martin was a prolific short story writer for 20 years, and he still managed to live a somewhat comfy life before his big break.

>>21957487
Anyways, I thank you for the suggestion and for taking the time to answer any of my questions; since I assume that everything involving the process of submission and publishing must seem inconceivably droll to you now.

>>21957475
What are your thoughts on an idea of mine.
I have a webnovel that once I finish what I would consider my first book, I would like to make a novel appropriate form of the story, and then either self publish, or, if my following becomes sizeable enough, try to get it traditionally published.
Right now my story is over 400k words, but I think I could skip past a lot of things and just make callbacks to explain the characters and world so that it could be read by someone who has never read my webnovel version. Part of this is because I am somewhat writing from only a loose outline of my plot and it is my first project so some of what I've written is a result of wanting to explore the character and the logical path taken to reach where they end up.
There is a story I've read most of called Beneath the Dragon Eye Moons, which split the story into books and sells them selfpub through amazon. But it is literally just the webnovel in print and I don't see it actually fitting well.

>>21957502
>There is a story I've read most of called Beneath the Dragon Eye Moons
Oh god, your going to shit out yet more PC filler trash aren't you.

>>21957495
>>21957501
You’re good. Apex magazine pays surprisingly well, especially the podcast feature payout too.

I’d say if your trying to make a living off of only short story publishing, as I say with most things, don’t quit your day job. Takes a mixture of skill, luck and opportunity for these kinds of things to work out, so don’t jump into the deep end without a life jacket.

The key to making a living off it however, would be submitting everywhere. You would need multiple short stories in multiple magazines to keep yourself afloat. As an example, apex there publishes a magazine once every two months it looks like, which means 6 opportunities for payouts. So you need to have stories in other magazines to keep cash flowing.

If you are new to this, and important thing to keep in mind is that you should only submit one story to each magazine at a time. You can’t send your one story to five publishers at once. It has to be one story, one publisher, and then move onto the next if you get rejected. This would mean you need multiple stories on the go. Also make sure to follow their submission instructions to a T. Don’t get disqualified because you forgot to dot your I’s. Also you are going to get a lot of no’s. Do not be discouraged, this is standard and you can’t take it personally.

And no worries, honestly. I show up in these threads (usually drunk) specifically to help people get a start. The process of submissions and publishing are the bread and butter.

>>21957518
I didn't really care that much for the story in all honesty. I just used it as an example of a story that I know of which published their webnovel in a print format. And I don't know what you mean by PC filler, but I'm guessing you mean because it is stupidly long and thus the files fill up the PC. Or, you mean politically correct, which I can understand as sometimes the story did come off as preachy to me. Anyway, I dropped the story because the author seemed more enamored by shaking up the status quo than actually making a story. Once they left the main nation that the story took place in, it barely felt like I was reading the same thing anymore and it never really recovered. One thing that I do not want to become, is an author who can't let a story die. I have three endings planned out but until I reach the final one, I could keep doing more with my setting, but I'd rather not. I have an idea for a second story, one which is completely unrelated, and I want to write that eventually, but I just don't have anything more than the premise and so it isn't actually anything but a fart in the wind.

>>21957521
Thank you. If you will suffer me just a little longer, I have one last question.

Do you think it is still possible to be a relatively unknown person as an author like Pynchon, or to write something as a pen name and never have your actual face nor features known by any save for your friends? If the latter is not possible, then I wonder how feasible the pen name still is.

>>21957379
This is legit crippling. It makes everything feel so futile. A sick joke. How the fuck do you muster the will to write seriously, when there are people getting rich by writing shitty pretend-video games?

>>21957502
I think you’ve got an interesting idea. And again, building a base before traditional publishing is a really good idea.

I think the biggest caveat to consider is that a web novel and a traditional novel are two different mediums, especially considering your web novel has 400k words. (Split the difference and say your average novel has 100,000 words, you nearly have four books worth.) if/when you adapt to a traditional novel you either have to adapt the works so that 1/4th of your web novel fits neatly into a regular book, (with all the hallmarks of a satisfying conclusion of a first novel). Or you will have to adapt your work to the novel format which means you will essentially be writing it from the ground up again. (You could edit what you have down, but that will take some time and skill.)

And interesting idea might be to have your main web novel be its own series, and then write another new novel, with the same protagonist/world but going on a different adventure.


As for self publishing. I’m usually against it, especially if you already have a following for your webnovel. But if you do go for it, avoid anything where you pay for it to be published. And be prepared to market yourself.

>>21957542
two different perspectives
there are people getting rich by writing shitty pretend-video games, of course I can get rich writing

>>21956758
>It takes me an hour to an hour and a half to write just 500 words
That's approximately 0.18 words per minute. The average writing speed for adults is 40-50 words per minute. In other words, you spent most of the time just sitting there, doing nothing. If you actually wrote, 2000 words per day would be easy.

>>21957553
>thinking what to write actually takes up the most time "writing"
GEE NO SHIT

>>21957546
No one cares if it doesn't have *bing* *bing* wahoo level up! and time loops.

>>21957557
Then it's not writing that takes time, it's your lack of a brain. It's not an activity for idiots.

>>21957558
I was already going to write fantasy or cyberpunk of some sort
stapling on a superficial litrpg system that does nothing to affect the world, rather only describes the character's progression is not just easy, it's been done before

>>21957539
That is a very good question with an unclear answer.

Old heads argue no, and don’t see the reason as to why you would want to hide your name/face anyways. Plus book signings are a cornerstone of marketing. But this mostly is because they are out of touch boomers who lack the understanding of the horrors of the modern world. New heads argue the same thing just opposite direction, as social media presence, parasocial relationships and personal branding is practically a must in this day and age. Besides who wouldn’t want to be famous?

BUT

There are still authors with pen names, who do find success. But they often already have a strong network or good online presence. But more importantly avatar/virtual entertainment is rising and proving successful in other entertainment areas, and I think that success would be found here in the literature world too. You would still need a social media and a following. But its possible it can be done via an avatar or virtual character. How seriously you would be taken is unknown.

It has happened much yet, but I think it’s viable. If you want to be safe, go the pen name route with maybe an AI generated face. Which that btw a hasn’t even been discussed yet. But should work just fine. Avatar stuff is unknown so if you want to play it safe don’t use that yet.

I hope all that makes sense, I’m becoming less coherent

>>21957568
just do the socmed shit but do it as a persona rather than using your real name

>>21957564
>I was already going to write fantasy or cyberpunk of some sort
I was talking about serious writing here. Please don't (you) me ever again

>>21957571
nobody wants to read litfic
not even those who masturbate about how high brow it is
they just want to be able to say they've read litfic

and you, my friend, don't have the luxury of being an 18th-century scholar

>>21957574
i feel like the mistake that writers make here is thinking that genre fiction can't talk about the human condition. 99% of readers will go to genre because it has the tropes that are familiar to them. all you need is to put your own spin on it and then you've made something soulful that readers will remember

>>21957589
100% this
dumb anons automatically think all genrefic has to be schlock supreme, and that unashamed schlock can't be profound or have profound moments

no, it has to be ulysses all the way through because nothing less will get my intellicock hard enough to psionically fuck my own ass

>>21957384
KEK, you're a retard, but I will add to your black sermon: in the publishing industry, men still have an advantage in that women fucking hate each other and do not hesitate to destroy one or the other's career, should any of them toe the (generally arbitrary, social media-made) line. Though I am sure they would destroy a man's career, they don't do it with the particular glee that they do when it's female vs. female. So, men can slip under the radar, more often than not, if they aren't idiots.

>>21957598
You need to be like, not a child to post here.

>>21957536
as long as the mc doesnt stay 'weak' for a hundred + chapters and there isnt a prison arc or tranny/furry shit, count me in!

>>21957536
What story was this? I like fics that go around the world.

>>21957589
It can speak to the human condition--so long as the writer stays within the box placed around him by genre readers, genre agents, and genre publishers. But genre cannot and never will reach the sublime.

>>21957628
no matter how "le sublime" your dollarstore finnegan's wake is, it means nothing if nobody reads it

>>21957609
"...like, not a child..." Feminine hands wrote this.

>>21956758
2000 words a day is easy as fuck.

Getting someone to read your book? MUCH harder.

>>21957631
And yet, what do you know, people read Finnegan's Wake and it is studied in academia. kek. Go to bed anon you drunk fuck.

>>21957634
And nobody will read yours, even if it magically matches the original, because nobody would read or publish Finnegan's Wake if it were written today or ten years ago
(yours won't be even 1/20 the quality, it'll be hyper-obtuse reader-hostile schizo ramblings)

>it's another litfic vs. genrefic shitflinging episode on /wg/
who even gives a shit?
it's not like litfic fags ever release anything and genrefic fags never post excerpts because litfic fags always seethe about it

>>21957636
I never claimed my work is any good at all. Nor do I wish to write like Joyce. But even if I did, it doesn't change the fact that genre will never achieve the sublime.

>>21957545
I think editing down my story would be nearly impossible, and anything that comes out of such a project would be so heavily changed that rewriting it from the start would be easier.
I intend to use the settings, characters, and plot, of that story.
Does the reader need to go through the years of his mental unwellness and the cause of this? No, these are things that I enjoy writing about and they flesh out the story, but in the grand scheme, I think that readers can understand these parts of him with a few lines i.e since he has a history of violence, people are afraid of him, but he makes some other choice like comforting a child.
Then, have him actually do something incredibly violent, to show that those rumors have a basis in reality.
I think that I can get across his biggest trait, which is a contradiction in how the world views him, what he does, and what he wants to do.
People don't need to read the full backstory of how he made friends, they just need to see the characters interact in a way that shows how deep their bonds are.

I agree about self-publishing, though it is more of a pride thing for me, anyone can selfpub, but, if I can get traditionally published then I would feel like I've accomplished something beyond whatever I end up making on patreon.

Now, about making more stories in the world as a side series, that sorta goes into an idea I've had kicking around my head, but is so far off that I don't even want to think of writing it.
A story which takes place in such a far future from the current story that it would seem to be a different world on the surface, but references would reveal the connection and make people wonder how things have changed in such huge ways.
I don't really care that much for the idea, but I find it interesting as a writing exercise to think of how the current actions might reverberate through time.

>>21957641
I mean it is a rare fool who would doxx themselves just to win a schizo argument on a Mongolian basket weaving forum.

>>21957625
Beneath The Dragon Eye Moons like the post before mentioned.
>It has an interesting magic system with a woke panzy ass female MC who makes a stupid binding vow of non violence and mary sues her way through everything.

>>21957646
no I mean that litfic fags never release anything
at all
we have what, one guy who released a litfic book, and it's K.K. Wing, emily project anon

>>21957625
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/36299/beneath-the-dragoneye-moons
>>21957623
I worried at first about my character growing too quickly, but I realized that the factors at play make it sensible and it further drives home how he is a monster to most people inwardly and outwardly.
But, I must admit, I do have anthropomorphic animal people. I like them, and I have avoided making anything sexual about them. I know that furfags have poisoned the well on animal people, and I hate them for it.
And, while it is not a prison in the sense that my character has to watch out for dropping the soup, he does end up detained early on in a facility for children who've either been cursed by Fae. He only spends about 10 chapters here, but it is an important part of his character as it is part of his fearing the loss of control over his own life.
>>21957649
This is one of the issues I have with the story.
>Oh, thing just happened?
>Now the system can give her the power she needs for this situation and then gets thrown away.
It also has the problem of making the new threat stronger than the old threat. You can't have her get hurt by an ambush anymore because she is damn near unkillable and the in world stats means
>Oh no, the gribblesnasher is level 4000, I can only flee.
She is a walking god, but the most boring kind you can imagine, and they had to warp the entire story once she got too strong because it relies too much on powerlevel wankery.

>>21957671
Furfags, I suspect, are one of the reasons I instinctively avoid having furred animal people in my stories. It's always varieties of lizards and bugmen.

>>21957589
100% of writers will go to genre because they have nothing to say about the human condition and big thinks hurty their brain.

>>21957675
Funny enough, I don't have any lizard or bugmen in my story.
I thought about it, but I really don't want a couple dozen species of non-humans wondering around. I have enough as it is.
I also wanted orcs, but I don't really want people, but green and dumb, so instead they all have magically induced insanity that makes them not classed as people.
However, I intend my main character, as he changes himself through transformation magic, to take on a somewhat bug-like appearance because he gives himself an exoskeleton and a lanky bodytype, since I like those kinds of designs.

>>21957671
You don't even know just how relieved I was when I asked what my readers thought of my power level handling and they kept comparing it to shit like Hunter x Hunter and saying they liked how my characters got stronger mostly through new tools rather than brute power

>>21957715
And whom be these readers of which you speak?

>>21958010
Probably his mommy made an account and logged in to comment on her special little boy's story so that he doesn't feel bad about himself later when they go pick up chicken nuggies from the golden arches. Good job, son! Your leveling system is marvelous! Just marvelous, Anon!
>and she prays to God every night that you'll go out and get a real job and move out, but maybe it will take one more comment, one more chicken nuggie.

>>21955106
I just came up with the b plot and c plots and they are so sad and messy for my protagonist. But I like writing about broken, imperfect people

>>21958071
> they are so sad and messy for my protagonist.
constantly giving your protagonist problems is good storytelling

>>21957650
/lit/ has other litfic writers. One writes short stories but hasnt written a novel yet, one (me) is unpublished and another dropped off the face of the earth.

>>21957650
Emily project is litfic? I thought it was just a robot sex story

>>21958289
He's talking about the other story, The Beautiful Kingdom

>>21958292
Is it any good?

>>21958304
NTA but I bought it yesterday along with some other stuff. Going on a month long reading diversion to catch up with novels I missed by /lit/. I will still be writing of course.

I'm trying to concieve of what would actually make for good youtube content to build a foundation for advertising my books, but just about everything seems like niche crap that won't get any attention. Who on youtube is actually going to want to listen to some self-pub author talk about Yukio Mishima?

Every single time I go out in public to touch grass as it were, I encounter people who like the idea of reading but don't have the time/energy to actually read.

I'm at a bit of a loss, especially considering I haven't even gotten a foothold here in /wg/

>>21958324
You're motivation is misplaced if you're in this just for fame. If you're passionate about something then people will naturally flock to you

>>21958346
It's not about fame it's about making enough money that I don't have to work my day job and can focus on my passion. And people can't flock to me if they've never heard of me.

There's just other things to consider such as; I want to do my own anthology (Yes, like Tales of the Unreal but not with them) but if I don't have a certain level of clout and reach I just won't get enough submissions to actually work with, and I am currently below that level of reach/sales.

>>21958364
One step at a time. So by all means start a YouTube. Daniel Greene did it and look at him now. Even his book made 100k

>>21958376
He started his channel to talk about stuff he enjoyed (mainly Wheel of Time). He didn't do it as advertising for his future writing career.

>>21958220
this story is going to be so good, i can't wait to write it and share it with you guys. the themes are ones that i'm passionate about as well

>>21958426
That's where you need to start

Spot the difference

>>21955774

Thank you for feed back I'm going to edit sometime this week

>>21956153

Disquieting expression could probably work? Doesn't strike me as despairing but disqueiting could be close for what you're trying to go for

>>21958478
That's woolston? I thought he was 20-25

Only unreal schlock fags would pay to attend an MFA at the university of florida ahhahahahhaha

>>21958495
shut the fuck up nobody cares

>>21958426
Pretty sure that's the point, anon.

>>21958511
Why are you angry, bud? Enjoy paying $70K a year to listen to mediocre white women explain YA writing to you. But you unreal fags actually need it since your writing is genuinely worse than all YA slop

>>21958495
>university of florida
>florida
>methheads and biblethumpers drinking and driving to the porn shop together
oof

How badly will I fare on RR if I don't write litRPG or progression or whatever people are calling it now?

>>21958569
kills me that zoomers have such empty lives that they'll read 1m wordcount poorly written slop in lapslock that makes SAO look like a masterpiece

>>21957400
Your idea of commercial success is the pipe dream of making billions and being in the top 0.000001% of writers when the fact is that MOST writers make nothing or next to nothing.

R:Trailer trash makes enough for an average person to pay the bills and write for a living, which is already insanely good.

Walk before you can run my dude. Don't discourage people from first getting up on a small stage just because they'll likely never be some A-list super celebrity.

>>21958376
So if I start posting 20 minute discussion videos on philosophy and pulp fiction are you likely to watch that?

I want to work through a number of study charts that have been put together on here, but theyre not the kinds of works that will get many subscribers

>>21958532
no i don't know who you're talking about. i'm here to write

>>21956794
>>21956787
>>21956758
2000 words a day is not insane. It is very much possible, but you should not shoot for that every day if it is unresonable for you. I can do 2000 words on a good day, when I already have teh scene roughed out. Then, i can just roll with it. Otherwise, 1000 words a day is great.
At teh very least, I do think you should try to write 500 words a day, just to keep up the familiarity. Just do what you can, anon, and don't lie to yourself.

>>21958602
If you're good at speaking and don't have an obnoxious sounding voice ill watch your videos

>>21956897
Yeah, my books.
Magellan: The Adventures of a Star Seeker. there ya go. They are good.

>>21958576
The world consists chiefly of the vulgar. If reading, writing, and analysing everything in between for the past several years has taught me anything, it's that the less thought and effort put into something, the more popular it is. There are a few exceptions, but just look at Where the Crawdads Sing or whatever else is "trending" among the masses. Hell, look at the Kindle Unlimited most popular.
The bitter truth is that the more passion, soul, and effort you put into a project, the less likely it is to do well, with very rare exceptions. This is NOT the rule. Genre writing, which is all about conforming to expectations and "writing to market", is all about suppressing the urge to write from the soul.
I envy writers who are able to write from the soul sometimes, but then turn that part of the brain off and become a commercial success. You might consider them literary prostitutes, but in my eyes they're succeeding by playing both sides.

>>21958628
Not with that shitty cover.

>>21958569
4 days in and I only got 200 views.

>>21958576
It's the word count that matters not the quality.

>>21958670
well done, it took me 4 months to get that ... and they were all search engine bots.

>>21958677
Hmmm... That might be the case for me too.

>>21958628
So this... is the power of 2000 words/day

>anon shares his book
>immediately crabs tear him down

>>21958703
I don't understand what you wrote.

>>21958569
Is there another platform that's better suited for this?

>>21958713
i'm not a crab but in that excerpt alone there's a few things to criticize. however. it comes off bad for an experienced author to tear down someone else. what i will say stands out to me the most is the abuse of passive voice from the very first sentence to the last. generally this is considered bad practice. if you're using 3rd person perspective then just state observations as if they are from the character's pov. it helps to try to get into that character's head and really describe how they feel about their surroundings rather than outright giving a description. if it's dark, how have the character adjusted to the darkness? if they've always been in darkness, how would they know it was "dark"? etc

So this is the power of 2400 daily words!

Since I've noticed my name is getting brought up these past few threads and don't want to eventually just be known as a meme like Gardener...

I'm FortySixtyFour, I write the webfics "AnimeCon Harem" and "RE: Trailer Trash" and make decent income doing so. $4.5k USD a month or thereabouts. Both are genre fictions, and both also focus heavily on subverting their respective genres.

Harem fics are generally known to be wish fulfillment garbage with paper thin characters; I instead went full multiple POV deep dives into the thoughts and perspectives of all the characters involved and focused on fleshing out characters. Do-over fics are generally male lead and focus on taking advantage of future knowledge for personal & financial gain; I went female protag and the story instead focuses on how she misunderstood almost everything she thought she knew and is now given a chance to actually grow up this time.

Both are MODERATELY successful in their respective niches. I'm on the lower end of my Aethon peers in that regard, because I don't really cater to mass appeal progression fantasy, and honestly? I don't write fast at all. Each of my chapters gets written and rewritten and not posted up until I'm satisfied it has the impact I want it to. For perspective, the actual "success" writers in my peer circle generally make 10x what I do or much, much more. Look up Zogarth, Shirtaloon, and Defier. I'm a nobody by comparison, which is fine.

I do strongly advocate for the Royal Road & Patreon model of writing if you're looking to break away from day jobs or et cetera and be able to write full time. You may have to write genre fiction to actually start doing numbers, and that's okay. I have full confidence that you're able to find SOME genre you love enough to be able to write in it. My buddy Traitorman wrote in an old school fantasy Forgotten Realms sort of style, and didn't really become extremely popular until he dissected modern progression fantasy and was able to figure out a project that both fit with the writing he wanted to do and also the market: Mark of the Fool.

To those of you looking towards the current big moneymakers on RR (LitRPG) and thinking about making a quick buck, I'd say don't even try. You'd be trying to start a race when others have laps and laps on you, and reader market is going to just stick with the frontrunners because they're already nine books ahead of you in content. Also, most of you despise LitRPG, and your disdain for whatever given genre you try to write in almost always bleeds into the work when you force yourself to write what's popular.

(1/2)

>>21958800
What can you do, then? In my opinion (obviously, my own fics follow this model) genre fusion and genre subversion is what the serials market is salivating for, and where you'll manage to find a niche you love to write that also brings in money. Take any basic genre that has major weak points and just surprise readers by instead turning those into strengths. Beware of Chicken shot to popularity on RR because it took the least humane genre of chinese serial fic and redecorated every narrative with empathetic cozy slice of life. Magical Girl Gunslinger took the lesser used MG genre and wrote top tier tragic pity-porn out of it.

Tldr; this has been my random morning rant. Hope you guys have productive writing day today.

(2/2)

>>21958800
I've been meaning to ask you: do you have a day job? How many hours of writing per day do you do (and of course, how many words/day?). How about before you got big?

I have a couple of ideas that I know could be big (exactly the kind of genre blending you're talking about) but I don't have the time to be writing 10K words per week or whatever. And my day job is already mentally exhausting (I'm a scientific researcher).

>>21958797
>Her erection.
What? Giant clit or tranny? I think there could be a better word for it. Erection as a word is far too masculine

>>21958841
>>21958841
I quit my day job (hot knife operator at a production plant that makes high end linesman safety harnesses) some four or five years ago. It was a bit of a leap of faith, because at the time I think my Patreon was only pulling in $300 - $600 or so. Just, working there I was getting too tired to write when I got home, and it felt like I needed to decide to either write my stories now or never write them at all. So, ditched the car and phone and moved into the sketchy trailer park in town where lot rent was dirt cheap. Bit of a cautionary tale as I'm still here in the sketchy trailer park, but--fuck it, I am actually working on my own dreams instead of someone else's.

Can't speak for everyone as towards writing process, but almost no time at all is spent typing out the actual draft. Almost all of my time IS spent running through story plans in my head and thinking about what I want to do. Which story choice is the most interesting one to pursue, simulating conversations between characters over and over and over from various POV to discover interesting thoughts or connections or misconceptions a character might have. Planning out the juggle of subplots so that a "ball" is always in the air and even slow chapters are advancing some threads in ways and satisfying to read. Lots of research. Sooo much fucking research. My do over fic is set in the late nineties so I'm constantly hunting through for gems that will nostalgia hook those who lived through the times and (hopefully) be fascinating for younger readers who did not experience them.

>>21958895
Thanks for the reply. Sadly, I (no longer) have the luxury of just escaping into hermitage. I have a wife and a newborn kid that I need to take care of. It's disappointing to hear that you basically have to turn it into a full time job to make it work, but not necessarily surprising. Ah well, maybe in another life.

>>21958800
>>21958802
Good post. I've been considering going the RR route more and more with my YA urban fantasy novel as I have to deal with the arbitrary bullshit of traditional publishing. Cutting words to fit 100K, switching age demographics because male protagonists don't fit YA anymore, and etc. I'll probably still give it an honest try just so I don't have any regrets, but taking control of your own career and destiny is becoming increasingly appealing.

Looking into RR though, I was a bit worried hearing readers on there didn't like multiple POVs, which my story also has, so seeing how well you're doing with that is reassuring. Counting the first book and the sequel I'm 2/3 of the way through, I've got a nice backlog of 200,000+ words. I've heard all sorts of different opinions on post frequency. Can I ask how many chapters/words you typically publish per story on there each week?

>>21958800
>>21958802
Thanks for the posts. Could you please elaborate on:

> until he dissected modern progression fantasy and was able to figure out a project that both fit with the writing he wanted to do and also the market

I very much enjoy writing and have considered putting out some form of serial genre fiction to get my skills up and ideally make a bit of cash. What does the market want beyond regular updates?

>>21958862
His mother had a penis and killed him while he was shitting himself, that's plenty masculine

>>21958969
My works are probably a case study on what not to do in regards to post frequency. My popular one gets posted once every other month or so, my less popular one regularly has long, long six month to several year hiatuses from posting.

Post frequency will depend greatly on your individual style of writing and also what list you hope to aim for. If you're aiming at PtW (Popular this Week) you're going to want as many minimum length posts as possible to game viewcount. So, in that case you'd want to take whatever chapters you have and split them up into 1k word or less subsections for posting. I tend to aim only at BR (Best Rated) as I write niche fiction, so my ONLY concern is that each chapter is a self contained satisfying experience to read that will also make them want more.

There's also the consideration of whether or not you even want to aim towards mass appeal--which in my eyes on RR is trying to ride a tiger. Mass appeal can do mass numbers, or it can just endlessly frustrate you with shortfalls from any number of other factors that come into play. Both of my fics more or less clarify that they are NOT catered towards mass appeal and advertise themselves in their niches. To secure high ratings and game BR rankings, you want the people who aren't your specific audience (and would give you low scores) to never feel like clicking on your fic to check it out at all. This is also why fanfiction works keep creeping up the BR list--readers not interested in whatever it's a fanfic of won't even click on it, preserving the project from the scathing gauntlet of half star ratings.

Whatever you wind up doing, the RR lists are your absolute best bet at discoverability and gaining a decent following. You can also network like crazy and try getting shoutouts from other bigger authors on their chapter posts, but (to me) that's a ton of work for incredibly variable returns. Brigading reviews also can help quite a bit if you have enough friends or followers to pull it off; when my buddy Vowron's new fic was just coming up I made sure to write a killer review and then got everyone to upthumb it to front page Top Reviews, where it remained for a couple weeks.

Any front page RR real estate is incredibly valuable to getting readers to click through to your work.

New fictions should focus on targeting the Rising Stars list, as that's the who's who of upcoming gems. You can sit on RS for a month or so, and then if your efforts there don't give you several thousand followers or drop you directly onto BR or PtW lists, you may have a lot of struggle ahead of you climbing further.

>>21958862
skinspy
coomer shapeshifters that can be detected by the fact they always have a cock somewhere no matter what form they take

>>21958984
Beyond regular updates? You have to know what your target audience needs, which may not be what they want (or think they want).

The current generation of readers have really, really shitty lives. Most are priced out of ever owning their own home, many are in debt, most are either wary of initiating a first relationship, or jaded from relationships blowing up in their face.

Progression fantasy is making so much money right now as a genre because the current modern generation of readers feels like they are stuck and getting absolutely nowhere with their lives. It can be very easy to cater towards that with what you write to pull in big numbers right away.

You may have to sugarcoat some of the things readers need with what they think they want to get them to first click, though.

My AnimeCon Harem fic appears to promise simple sex and instead delivers meaningful relationships. When first planning the story I constructed each girl around a different relationship theme; challenge, planning, opportunity, effort, loyalty, and compromise and even explored the pros and cons of each as best I was able to from my own experiences.

My do over fic appears to promise the protagonist WOWING people with her future knowledge and ideas, but actually just delivers catharsis from family / formative issues and healing from childhood traumas.

>>21953644
I only write fetish stories and I need a really boner inducing set-up to get my creative juices going.

>>21958862
his mother got killed and replaced by a skinspy. she was fucking him before that though

>>21957302
Get out of here, Dazzle, you are not even meta anymore.

>>21958895
>Almost all of my time IS spent running through story plans in my head and thinking about what I want to do. Which story choice is the most interesting one to pursue, simulating conversations between characters over and over and over from various POV to discover interesting thoughts or connections or misconceptions a character might have.
I do this.
I spend most of my day NOT writing, and instead I put myself into my story mentally and think about how certain conversations are going to go and how that is going to affect the story.
Then, at around 11 at night I actually start writing. Last night I ended up not doing the chapter that I planned to write, because another idea caught my fancy and it doesn't actually stop me from doing that other chapter still.

>>21958592
I use the examples of extremes here because it’s an easy way to illustrate/explain to others the current state of the industry.

Sitting down and explaining the self-pub scam, or how webnovlization is a different medium to that of traditional publishing, or even how the current industry is set up is something most don’t really care to hear about. Besides it’s long form and would take several posts, of which my fingers would rebel against me.
On top of this, many writers have a romanticized view of writing, authorship and publishing. And many don’t do the research necessary to break said views, and instead fall for the pipe dreams like self-publishing. The amount of people calling me a fucking Jew, and how they are gonna be a big self pub start us evidence of this desu.

By showing the highest levels of success one can achieve, it paints a good idea of what is generally something you should be working towards, short hand of course.

But I do agree that walking before running is always important. It’s why I’m constantly screeching about short story writing, chapbooks and other such endeavours to people who want to write the next American novel. It’s also why I preach setting up a fan base, or a community of interested individuals before doing major as well. It’s also why I say don’t quit your day job.

Because the reality is, as you said, most will never make enough to live off their writing. Even prettier, those who make money from Patreon/online self-publishing content, often still have a day job. They just hide it since success breeds success. It’s a pipe dream to say you’d make enough from online content, just as it’s a pipe dream to become the next American author. But I’d argue the latter has a better chance than the former.

But again, I do agree, drawl before you can run.

>>21959124
That's still writing, to me. Mentally getting it all together, figuring everything out, perfecting whatever certain phrasings you want to use, and then the act of actually sitting down to type it out is just the busywork of putting it into words, not really WRITING.

>>21959032
>>21959016
The fuck?

>>21959129
I love how you tried to use 50 shades as an example of the publishing industry taking chances on things, when it was already a huge success at that point - which was the only reason they even knew about it and why they came crawling to her with pallets of cash. Same with Hoover, who self pubbed several very successful books first, which caused them to come to her on bended knee. And that was a decade plus ago.

Ease of distribution, the only advantage trad publishing historically has had, has only become easier and easier in the meantime. I'd imagine the pandemic accelerated that trend even further.

So I showed a good friend of mine my book so far and he told me my Protag is an obnoxious asshole (Also said it was a self-insert) which kinda stung but I could see where he was coming from.

I've been mulling over what he was telling me about how readers will likely put it down before they get to the point where he starts to change for the better or grow as a person throughout the book.
On one hand I could completely re-work his character and take the book into another direction but on the other I kind of want to finish where I'm going with this original version.
Admittedly It's only 7 chapters along and I could definitely start over without much trouble but I'd like to get some opinions about it.
In hindsight it seems like he's absolutely right in that a protagonist who is easily hated is not popular.
He also said my writing is boring and lacks engagement. I'm totally fine agreeing with him on that because I literally just started.

What would be the sensible thing to do? Do I go ahead and start over or would it be better to keep going if nothing else just for the practice of finishing a book?

>>21959152
Right, and I agree, but I know I've seen people post here about how they sit down for hours and barely write anything, which makes them feel like they've failed.
I think people get caught up in the physical act of putting words on the screen, and not enough on the process.

>>21959174
>my protag is an obnoxious asshole
make bad things happen to him whenever he's an asshole as a bit of retributive karma

>>21959175
In my writing circles I've found there's a surprising divide between writers and storytellers. There's a lot of talented people with writing degrees and nothing particularly interesting to explore as they don't really have other life experience, and then there's storytellers who did everything else with their write and have great yarns to share if you can only work your way through godawful prose to figure it out.

>>21959184
Oh yeah he definitely gets fucked over because of his shitty behavior. My friend's argument was that it didn't matter and that him being so unlikeable is a huge turn off.

I'd like to post and get feedback on what people think, but I don't think a lot of folks in these threads bother to actually read longer than a few sentences for the most part.

It kinda irks me how I've yet to get comments on my RR page. I want people to tell me how I'm fucking up. There's no better time for it than now imo since I'm still trying to develop my style of writing. I'm still very incomplete as far as writing goes.

>>21959129
>It’s also why I preach setting up a fan base, or a community of interested individuals before doing major as well.
Oh my god. Pic related is you >>21956411
It's literally describing you. What a farce. What a clown.

>>21959174
Add side characters who are more likeable, but they stick with protag due to share history or they're forced to or something. Make it clear you understand the protag is an asshole by having other characters call him out on it. Maybe have him be introspective and call himself out on it, but he struggles with changing for whatever reason.

>>21959197
maybe try and make his asshole behavior funnier
>no one leaves comments on my writing
>no I will not link my RR page

>>21959206
See this kind of point is exactly what's making me lean towards just going ahead and keeping him the way he is right now.
If I just finish this story I'll have a better chances at getting true feedback since people will be able to look at the bigger picture and decide on if he truly redeems himself and if his suffering was warranted or not.

My friend told me that I'm better off starting over again but I'm hopeful that there will be readers who will be interested in seeing where his choices take him in the end.

I guess I'll keep at it then. Once I have the book finished I might get that feedback I'm so looking forward to.

>>21959174
Your character should be an asshole for reasons, just make them interesting reasons.

>>21958895
>>21959124
Same. Almost everything I write is the culmination of obsessive thoughts I cannot stop. It's why I started writing in the first place.

>>21959167
>Hoover
Oh your the obsessed shit heel who’s seething about not being published.

If you want me to illiterate why your retarded, the fifty shades example was made for a specific reason. It’s wasn’t fifty shades when it “found success” online. It was a twilight fan fiction, using trademarked characters that would have gotten her sued thirty times over the more success it had found.

The reason it’s often considered to be an example of publishers taking chances is because she had to chance the core fundamentals of her book. Edward had to become mr. gray. Bella to what’s her face. The setting and the main plot had a reform from vampires and bdsm to an rich bitch office man and bdsm. I know to your pea brain that doesn’t seem like a big change, but it was a massive one. Especially if you looked through her comments at the time, which all loved and adored the fact that it was a fanfic, and that it was about Edward and Bella.


On top of this, fanfiction in general is horrid, and never usually finds commercial success. Fanfic authors have a ton of writing problems that they never grow out of because they sit on established cannon. Not to mention contracts and legal which has to be dealt with.

Your an outsider looking in thinking he’s got the full picture. That it obviously wasn’t an industry taking chance, but it most certainly was. Everyone in the industry knows this. And it paid off. But since you need to be spoken to like a child, what about the hunger games? What about Harry Potter? What about gentleman bastards? What about Percy Jackson? Etc etc etc. All of which got popular, from someone taking a chance.

Once again. Hoover fucking who?

To further nail your ass to the coffin lid, trad publishing has a ton of advantages that you’re missing. Mostly because you don’t do your research, but the best part to me is that you advocate for this idea that ease of access has made it easier for people to be published and find success. And that’s true, but it’s done something you don’t even realize. It’s created such a wide fucking pool, that your totally, utterly, irrelevant. 80% of people think they have a story to tell. Imagine a football field for me, and now imagine that’s 80% filled. That’s your competition. You think you beat out 80% of them? You think your work is the cream of the crop? Not even close.
So how do you differentiate your self? How do you make people see you? Your a malding authors blaming the Jews, how do you find your audience? And how you retain your audience when thousands upon thousands wish to pull their attention.

To give an example, in a different industry, the collapse of the live service model in video games is imminent. Every game now can be live service now, and every game vies for your attention. It demands you play their battle pass, their new event, their best ever season yet. But, an audience, can only devot so much fucking time and attention. Why should I pay you mine?

>>21959197
Give him a redeeming quality, just a little. Raskolnikov in C&P cared a lot about his family, and other moments of compassion which gave readers hope he could become a better person. I had a friend, a really nice one, tell me Rodion was "sweet." You dont have to do the same thing but throwing anything out there can make a protagonist a little less insufferable, yet still deserving of retribution.

>>21959247
>If you want me to illiterate why your retarded, the fifty shades example was made for a specific reason. It’s wasn’t fifty shades when it “found success” online. It was a twilight fan fiction, using trademarked characters that would have gotten her sued thirty times over the more success it had found.
And she made all those changes prior to self publication. You absolute clown.
>Hoover fucking who?
You've got to be shitting me. Colleen Hoover. The number one best selling author of 2022, and probably prior years.

>>21959258
Okay give me your opinion on this.
The protagonist has parents who kept the truth about why his best friend stopped talking to him.
He doesn't know and just thinks it must have been because he was too unlikeable so he becomes outwardly anti-social.
The truth is that his best friend died, and his parents kept the truth from him since they were the ones who caught the phone call from the family of the deceased friend.
They think their son will not take it well and conclude that keeping him in the dark is "safer" than letting him experience the heavy grief and heartbreak that comes with such a thing.
It comes back to bite them in the ass when their son loses all drive and motivation and pushes people away because he feels like any friend he makes will do the same to him and hurt him that way.
Is this good enough justification to later redeem him when his parents are forced to reveal the truth to him near the end after he overcomes the hardship that the story entails?

>>21959205
>I don’t know anything about my chosen industry
>I don’t know anything about my wanna be career
>fuck I don’t even know how to write
>hey why am I not published? Why am I not seen? Why am I not heard? I’m good! I’m good!
>hmm.
>must be the Jews! Must be the traditionalists! Must be! Must be! I’m not bad or a fucking idiot!

My fucking Cheeto covered pigfucker, if you think you can do it all, why don’t you? Why aren’t you popular? Why aren’t you successful? It’s so easy, right? Give me the answers I so desperately seek.

Because in all my time, and in all my years being here, I’ve read only about 3 things I’d ever think would get published. Three things that actually don’t consist of the most basal shit, that’s past a third grade reading level. I’ve tried to help said three. I’m still in touch with one.

Everyone else here. Everyone who’s got big bright and amazing ideas…they all fade. They all become irrelevant. I’ve been told I’ll become irrelevant for the last seven years. And ever year, I watch as you all do. As you all fade into nothing.

So if it’s so easy. If you can do it on your own. Show me your work anon. Speak up.

>>21959275
Only if he genuinely seems to start growing past being such a shitty person after discovering the truth.

maybe i'm alone in this but i don't care who's a new york times bestseller. my writing will never speak to everyone. i want to find what i find interesting and fun.

>>21959247
NTA but I feel you on live service games. I just wanted to play really short 15 min a day games, I can go on hours of adventures and grindy ass dailies as a result. I am this close to dropping my sidegame.

>>21959284
Thanks I'm convinced in my story going forward.
I'll likely still need to touch up how obnoxious he is at the start but I definitely plan on this.

>>21959268
Keep ignoring everything I post to transfix one the one thing you think is right.m

>>21959286
*write what i find

>>21959286
Good mentality. Keep your chin up.

>>21959286
And guess what
There is absolutely fucking nothing wrong with that.
Just because fifty shades of shit is popular with single mothers doesn't mean It will be to me.
Women unfortunately dominate this industry at the moment, but there are decent reads if you put in the effort to look for what you're interested in.

>>21959293
>Hoover fucking who?
Retard. You claim you're in the industry? You absolute retard no one should take anything say seriously ever. The sad thing is I genuinely believe you are in the industry, but your day consists of fetching uncle Maury coffee and getting outraged on twitter.

I take comfort in knowing that even if my preferred and most loved style of prose—the so-called antiquated style of Gothic, there will still be enough people in the world who yet like such works, and would be willing to pay for it, so that it still stands a goodly chance for publishing.

>>21959309
Irrelevant. Keep cry at me because your work is meaningless. You won’t acknowledge anything outside your tiny insignificant points.

So why aren’t you successful anon, if you are so right. When are you going to replace me?

>Be interested in Werewolves
>Start reading Nightshade series
>Get past the first book
>Start the 2nd
>Can't even get past the first 3 chapters, it's too fucking cringe.
>Somehow this shit got multiple books despite being so dogshit.

You know, on one hand I can appreciate women writers and how abysmal in the way of talent the majority are, but if this is how low the bar is set I struggle to picture how me can't pick up the slack and make better series to this.
Why don't men write paranormal romance more? Women have set the bar so fucking low, dude.

>>21959326
It's just modern women desu. Bronte sisters and Austen are still pretty good.

>>21959275
It could. Does anyone else care about him besides his parents and why? If someone likes him, even if protag doesnt realize it, it reflects well that he isnt completely selfish, just myopic. Because someone values something in him. And the drama about him not knowing I dont think is going to affect how readers view him, but dramatic irony can affect the suspense they feel waiting for him to find out, to see if his selfworth and estimation of others changes. But some readers may be so offput by that childish reaction to the disappearance of a friend that they wont like him unless there's another reason to.

>>21959317
Bruh no one knows who the fuck you even are or what you write. We just assume you're LARPing as an industry insider in an attempt to validate random hot takes you throw around. So; who the fuck are you and why should anyone care?

>>21959313
I love Gothic, anon, share an excerpt.

>>21957415
>>21957475
This is already happening in the western webficsphere. Fics currently adapting into comics include:

Paranoid Mage
Primal Hunter
Practical Guide to Evil
RE: Trailer Trash
Salvos
RE: Monarch
Mark of the Fool
Shattered System

>>21959386
Primal hunter fucking sucks.

>>21959277
Okay but Jews are actually a problem.
Look at whose hands touch money going through the system.
Look at who owns fucking hollywood, banks, the news, and the biggest corporations.
It's not a coincidence, dude.
It sounds absurd yeah but you don't get kicked out of over 100 countries in the past for no reason.
Jews have been asking for genocide from the beginning. They're the real schizophrenics. No other people are as neurotic and outright malicious or vindictive than Jews. Look at how much they hate Whites. They literally spread anti-white propaganda and try to promote minorities in a fake positive light when all they really care is that they bring down the value of labor by opening borders and destroying national identity because that way they ensure the least possibility of revolt.
A united people is the bane of the Jew.
Everyone knows this.
They can only control a country that is divided, and what better way to divide than by introducing multiculturalism with a dash of racist propaganda to take away from the blatant classism that's actually happening.
I have no political party, by the way. I'm just calling it like I see it.

>>21959396

Damn, someone should've said so way earlier so that I'd know not to have pleb taste and enjoy reading it. My copies of volumes four and five just got here today. While you're at it, hurry and tell his massive readerbase that it sucks, so they know better then to give him forty thousand dollars every month on Patreon, probably as much or more all over again via Kindle Unlimited.

Hurry bro, they're all counting on you to save them from themselves!

>>21959338
shut the fuck up, fruitnut. the point of an anon forum is being anon. stop asking for selfdox. stop asking to pyw. fuck off

>>21959051
>>21959021
>>21958895
>>21958802
>>21958800
First i want to thank you for having the balls to associate with this maladjusted online knitting circle, your thoughts on RR and the state of the market.

Secondly all those words, big oof.

Thirdly all that you've written only serves to confirm what I already believe; if you wanna in any way 'make it' you have to work at it and cater to the wants of others. I mean I write lit-rpg and really enjoy elements of the genre but:
a) I don't like people.
b) I can't be fucked to put in marketing effort and polly anna/self shill.
c) I don't need the money generated from writing feelgood filler schlock and pandering to existentially vapid zoomers.

So thanks again for your formidable info dumps and the courage to claim membership here. p.s. I would read your shit but i fucking hate harem and time loops.

>>21959411
What are you even trying to say here? That his series' popularity is somehow proof that his work hasn't nose-dived in quality? It definitely has. I dropped this shit after the treasure hunt.
God damn that sucked ass. Way too many ass-pulls.
His entire character is somehow this overpowered persona and it gets old.
The conversations with some of the characters are also at times really tiresome. I get it though he has to make a lot of content so he's gotta let some shit slip through the cracks, but it's literally quantity over quality.

>>21959411
Book 5 just felt wrong to me from the beginning.
His entire fucking intro about how he's going to make at least 5 more books and probably more felt super arrogant and didn't help me get through the rest of the book.
I started to look at the content with more scrutiny and it didn't help to keep me invested.

>>21959411
It's ok i'll just sit in my own home and continue to masturbate and play video games while they burn down rome.

>>21959440
As if you wouldn't be doing this any other day of the week.

>>21959411
I really don't understand how people can read this stuff, let alone purchase it with their hard earned wages, beyond their teenage years--especially when its competing with television, movies and video games, of which it is a poor and blatant imitation.

>>21959448
Fantasy shit pulls in big numbers.
It doesn't even have to be good, most of the readers have low standards as long as they find it interesting.
Can't fault them, I mean that shit does sell but that doesn't mean it's "good". It's just popular.

>>21959423
No worries, man. I feel like there needs to be a balance between writing what you want to write and writing what readers want to read, and many are lucky to be able to find a fiction to write on that axis that they can enjoy writing and will bring in income.

Lot of this community here tends to look down on RR as anime writing, but RR exists more as a middle ground between indie pub and ScribbleHub, which the actual western anime writing can be found if you're into that. I worry about some of you guys because I have a lot of IRL writer friends who eschew any online communities and persist in writing their own "greatest story never read," then they'll inevitably self pub and sell either zero copies or three copies because they told their family about it.

Royal Road can admittedly be a real trash community sometimes, on both the reader side and the newbie author side. I do think it's extremely valuable in honing your writing on, finding out what works and what doesn't work in your own particular style, tempering yourself to legitimate criticisms and being able to brush off meaningless snubs. All of these are valuable on the path towards success with your writing.

>>21959440
Unfathomably based

>>21959458

Surely you have some objective standards you're using to determine this and not just your own personal taste right anon?

>>21959386
Insane how big litrpgs got. But I also think the boat sailed for this. Maybe they can make it as a tv show, but bookwise I think it's over.

>>21959362
I shall warn you that I have not done any editing, for I have not been writing as much as I should have, and that it will be very amateur but here is an excerpt:

>I once bought a quaint jester doll at an old, dust antique shop. It was a very marvelous, simple thing of felt and porcelain. Made in the Victorian style, with tarnished sepia-hued motley and aged yet unfaded paint on its smooth, porcelain surface; and with its low price of 23 dollars, I was impelled to purchase it. When, outside of the antique shop, I shook it in hopes of hearing the tiny, wonderfully crafted bells that drooped down from the ends of its hat—I was greatly disappointed by the lack of any sort of sound save for the muffled and awfully dreary noise of hollow metal against fabric. None of the three bells jingled and I immediately began to regret my purchase. But I could not return it—No! No matter the return policy nor the guaranteed refund, I could never return it; for it would be very awkward to return something not even a minute after having purchase it.

>Still, I was very satisfied—Indeed! for it was a superbly crafted thing: it was beautiful in a manner beyond any aspect of its physical composition. Its giddy thin red line of a mouth, the glittering glass beads it had for eyes, its strange sepia-toned motley, and its size and contours were all delightfully wholesome in spite of its grim countenance. I marveled at the fine, almost-invisible seams that lined its felt body, and under the moody shadows cast by the nearby trees under the setting sun; it seemed to marvel back at me.

(1/2)

>>21959563
>I set it on my desk on an improvised throne—a small porcelain box, and went about doing all of my necessary rituals before sleep with a slight feverishness, so glad was I at my wondrous acquisition. The jester doll sat, watching with its blue glass eyes as I went about my daily habits, and its strange gaze seemed to remain in me even as I retired for sleep. I was glad that its sole focus frmaimed on me. Glad I was—very glad! For could it not see how tenderly, how lovingly I went about the care of all my curios? Could it not see how delicately I handled the old timepiece as I wiped it down so gentle, with such a fine cloth? How steady my hands were as I stitched close a tear in the arm of a doll fifty years its senior, how carefully I dusted the yellowed ivory lids of the small reliquaries I had so diligently collected? Though sleep did not come as easily as it had before the acquisition of the jester doll, my sleep was better than it had ever been.

>Then in the midst of my dreamless slumber I awoke. My brain buzzed with a haze of confusion, my limbs and eyeslids locked in place as if with adamantine chains; I searched wantonly about my room for any wretched thing so! Yet under that daze—fully aware yet not entirely cognizant; my frenzied eyes then fell upon the jester doll. From its small porcelain throne, under that material and mental shadow that had overtaken me, it ruled the darkness—a nightmare king. A mild whismy had come and nestled into my wild thoughts and festered into nightmare.

>The once familiar shadows of my room distorted; bleding and fading into stranger shapes and smearing ever more into the unfamiliar. This bizarre corruption spared nothing in my room—nothing! save the doll. Its shape had never changed, nor was it ever a shadow; it glowed with a lambent coruscation, an odd, unwholesome kind of light that illuminated its once endearing features into fearsome aspects of new, hideous vistas of wrongness. Its venerable age was all the more apparent under that faint glow, and despite lacking any worn or moth-eaten holes or stains or any otjer sign of deterioration and decay; the jester doll seemed a vast and terrible remnant of a thing drawn up from the dark, ceaseless abysms of time, of that near-distant yet almost entirely mysterious truth; from the once-living present it was fashioned during—to now risen as the undead past in all of its sheer, yawning horror!

>My terror—yes! terror had grown nearly uncontrollable, made wilder by my equally as unbearable awe. At the precipice of that climax, my heart near silent in its limitless drumming, my brain and soul near spiralling away from my flesh and heart to lands distant and unreal; the jester doll spoke.

(2/2)

>>21959563
>>21959565
You really like Poe don't you?

>>21959537
I literally said it comes down to taste, you illiterate faggot.
Some people like the taste of shit, you know.
I'm not shitting on them, even if they would like me to.

>>21959580
Why yes, yes I do.

>>21959622
You might enjoy the following anthology: https://www.amazon.com/American-Gothic-Tales-William-Abrahams/dp/0452274893

(Many of the stories are in the public domain, so you can just glance at the toc).

>>21959563
>>21959565
I appreciate the indulgence of your prose, Poeanon. I always feel tempted to put the "—No!" in my own writing, but then end up deleting it, resulting in a weird, watered-down writing style that wants to be Gothic but isn't allowed to be. Keep doing your thing Gothic bro, we need to find out what the jester doll says.

>>21959565
I like it. How does it look when you break the paragraphs up by verses?

>>21955777
>Joyce branching
Madly wrote the anon, scribbling, his homework.
>Milton Branching
His homework the anon scribbling mad wrote

>>21955777
I believe the technical term for 'mid branching' is an Appositive, but I like that anon's framing of sentence structure regardless.

>>21959275
You're a shit writer. Kill yourself. Nobody is ever going to read your shit.

A friend of mine said that using the impact font for my book is fucking retarded. I told him he’s being an asshole. The font inherently makes things more exciting. Who is right?

>>21959950
Do you have any idea how dark a page looks with the impact font? And how square everything looks? It almost more offensive to read an entire novel in Impact than it is to read one in full upper-case.

>>21959466
True, it really does come down to the level of compromise your willing to make for attention and money. Don't get me wrong, i publish my shit for free and surprisingly have more then one total stranger willing to see my story through to its tragic end. Also i have financially supported multiple authors on there from time to time.

Yet despite all that. Based off my interactions with the community and having perused at great depth the offerings of other authors on the site. i can unequivocally say that i in no way want to be successful there.

>>21959565
Your work is banal and shit. I fell asleep reading it.

Kill yourself. You will never be a writer.

Just set up a literal chekov's chessboard

Yes it's on the nose but it's still really satisfying

>>21959174
You will never make it as a writer. You are total shit.

Kill yourself.

>>21958800
So basically you write shlop?

Kill yourself, fucking hack loser.

>>21960442
no u

at least try to make it not glaringly obvious that you're baiting for replies

>>21960387
>>21960440
>>21960442
Crustacean detected.

>>21959565
>>21959563
Any more ejaculations and it would feel like a Ren Aizawa video.

You have the rhythm down -- it's neat! -- but what you need, if Poe be your preceptor (the style's addictive), is a hook weirder than 'nice thing turns creepy': some hint from the very start of the fatal passion or hubristic flaw or lurking obsession that will send the narrator spiralling into the pit.

Like: man is always fascinated by dolls, but can never find the perfect one to suit his exacting taste. Then one day, entering by chance an old antique shop, barely can he steady his trembling aesthete's hands as he reaches for...

Or: man explains to friend his arcane theory about the eyes of inanimate faces. Then one day, entering by chance an old antique shop, he cannot rid himself of the sense of a strange intelligence staring back from deep within...

Or: man has terrifying, vivid memory of encountering a RenFair jester in his childhood. Then one day, entering by chance an old antique shop, whose countenance does he see in grotesque miniature but that of...

I love how millennials works are always bleak and edgy deconstructions of works aimed at children or flavour of the month political propaganda. It's never about parenthood, philosophy or the daily life is it?
It's almost like a clueless manchild's idea of a mature work. But of course it's definitely not that.

>>21958280
So we still have one litfic written.

What is your opinion on chapters/passages where the POV switches from one character to another?

>>21960535
No shit, Sherlock. How do expect people that have never experienced those things to write anything about it?

>>21960535
>It's never about parenthood, philosophy or the daily life is it?
You don't have to invent judgements about the things you don't read just for the sake of sounding knowing and authoritative. Take a casual glance over the Granta new fiction page sometime. Check out Molly Dektar's story 'Il Castello dei Mann', published last month on n+1. Check out Claire Lousie Bennett's Pond. Or check out the archetypal, hyped-to-high-heaven millenial writers like Sally Rooney and Otessa Mosfegh and Tao Lin, and see whether either edgy deconstruction or political propaganda is an apt descriptor of their work.

>>21960535
Burger anon is writing a story about the daily life of 5 kids.

>>21960535
>people too poor to live a hallmark lifescript lifestyle don't end up writing about it
no shit you xoomer fuckstain
THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE THAT WAY

>>21960574
>Sally Rooney and Otessa Mosfegh
they're both dogshit
i wish i could kill them

wilbur awoke to an unfamiliar sensory overload. soft breathing beside him, buried under a mess of sheets with blonde hairs sticking out. a woman. her upper back was exposed. wilbur removed the comforter to reveal her smooth, supple back, her ass cheeks sinking into the mattress like a pair of teardrops. memories of the bridge flooded back to him, and fragments of afterwards. wilbur could not pretend he understood women, but this one changed the calculus. he'd grabbed her, said he hated her, what she stood for. imagine making love to someone you hate, he thought. but i don't hate her. the dewy remnants of last night clung to her skin. she smelled like sex. wilbur edged closer to her and pressed their skin together, a steady erection starting to grow. his hands groped for her breasts. he kneaded and pinched and lightly bit the back of her ear. she awoke with hitched breaths.
sto- stop. i need to get ready for work.
you're so submissive. are you sure? you don't want another go?
maybe, if i survive the day. we can have dinner.
don't be so dramatic, val. i don't know what's going through your head right now. but don't do it, okay? i'm here for you.
at this she turns to face him. honestly, will, you're here for my tits. if that is your real name.
wilbur reed. and i'm here because you talked to me, and no woman talks to me. i think the shit test you pulled back there was dumb. it's okay to disagree with someone and still care about them. i want you to live.
yeah, your care is on my leg right now. but, i'll play nice with you, "wilbur". since you didn't manhandle me so much. she disappears back under the comforter.
val, come on. hey-- ah--

>>21960552
My personal preference is to keep a modest number of POVs - two or three. Any more than that and it gets hard for me to keep track.

Not to say more doesn't work, obviously. But I think it starts to change the nature of the story when you add more on. Less time in each head.

>>21959563
>>21959565
it's not my thing contentwise so i'll just critique your style. try to be sparing with em dashes. you shouldn't be using them every paragraph. when i read this i feel like i'm drowning in adjectives. it seems to me that the words are leading you not you leadin the words. compare your writing with someone from the victorian era like dickens. he was paid by the word and even he did not use vocabulary that was so ornate and descriptive. if you're doing a pastiche of victorian then you really need to read victorian and bring out the strengths of that era of storytelling; purple prose was not one of them. just food for thought

>>21959949
Nah, but thanks for your input, however worthless it may be.

>>21960703
Not that anon but pick up a Gothic story, anon. It was popular before the Victorian era even began.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/67568/a-knight-of-valora-serenity

Adah Phenric took a vow to protect the world from any threats when she took an oath as a Knight of Valora. All was well until she and her team were sent on a routine mission to hunt a monster, but things go awry and Adah finds herself to be the sole survivor. Unconvinced her comrades are dead, she ventures out into the world to uncover the reasons for their disappearance. Coming in contact with a mysterious merchant, her investigation leads her to uncover a plot that threatens the world and discover the nature of the Goddess herself. Armed with nothing but her wits, friends, and a bit of magic, Adah commits to bringing the culprits to justice. For duty binds all.

Here's my silly fantasy book. I need beta readers right now. I can't figure out what I need to do to edit. It seems like I'm just writing in circles.

>>21953826
I only think about writing. Sometimes I brainstorm in bed before sleep, but by morning I forget all my ideas. I like watching people talk about writing and I get excited by the idea of it, but whenever I open an empty document, I just stare at a blinking cursor for ten minutes before giving up.

>>21960867
>but ten years of hard work did not prime her for the monumental task that befell her current task
Really nigger? You can't figure out what to edit?

>>21960876
Ok okay sheesh, i'll fix the sentence.

>>21953826
I don't count words, I wrote 14 pages on paper with a pen.

>>21956153
"John Poopington speared his elbows into the solid mahogany wood of his desk. His tiny wrists creaked in protest over the task of supporting his big ass retard skull. The mopey expression of a despondent fucking moron was all scrunched up from the contact of his fists shoved against his face. A great rattling sigh expelled from his suitcase-handle lips, followed by an errant splatter of spittle. HAHAHA look at this big baby, reader. LOOK AT HIM LMAOOOO."

>>21959466
>RR exists more as a middle ground between indie pub and ScribbleHub
No, RR is just SH but pretending not to be trash. SH knows it's trash. That's the only difference.
Had I known just how fucking retarded the average person on RR is, and how useless the moderators are at dealing with obvious alt accounts and bot downvoting, and how generally fucked the site is if you're not writing something that can hit top 100, I never would have started posting there to begin with. If you are not writing anime, do not post on RR. If you are not trying to suck all the right cocks so you can blow up and milk zoomers for patreon bux, do not post on RR. If you want to keep your sanity and motivation intact, do not post on RR.
I would actually advise SH over RR even for serious projects if only because the community there isn't as pretentious and up their own asses. They're stupid weebs and most of them know it.
>t. well over a year posting on RR

>>21960867
KK wing i didn't know you made a RR account. Want me to add it to the pastebin?

>>21960867
How the fuck do you write so much?
Emily Project
The Beautiful Kingdom
Knight of Valora

What the fuck man? I can't even finish 1 story and you finished 3?

>>21961052
My man he is clearly motivated.

>>21960508
Thanks Anon. No wonder I kept feeling as if something was wrong as I wrote the story.

>>21960703
Thank you for your time spent critiqueing, but I was writing like Poe who used em-dashes liberally. Even still, my vocabulary may be too ornate since I am also a great admirer of Clark Ashton Smith, but that’s a matter of style in my opinion.

>>21961052
>>21961052
I write with terrible prose, edit horribly, and cannibalize a bunch of shit posts, short stories, and essays I write into one coherent story. If you've lurked in these threads the past 2 years, you'll see a lot of excerpts I posted in Valora. The amount of shitposting written on 4chan can generate a 60k word book easily.

>>21961000
You can replace this with the Emily Project. Now I'm more experienced, I'm going to heavily edit The Emily Project during summer break.

>>21961067
Tell you a secret.

I even wrote the gay assassin pirate story. But that one is going to be a litfic book. Researching constantinople and anatolia during the reign of Suleiman the Magnificent is 1000x harder than San Francisco in the 1870's. My school's library doesn't have much on him.

New bread >>21961108
Now with that fresh seafood aftertaste!

>>21957406
>guess the pro gamers are sexist
Yes...?

>>21959411
>Er actually I'm one of the thousands of retards who read this slop
Not quite the own you think it is.