/lit/ - Literature

>>21931049
Wait, what? But isn't slavery in some shape kind of staple of fantasy? Most of the traditionally published books, even YA, that I've read have had slavery or even had the protagonist themselves be a slave at some point. Did yours have to do with real world races?

You did write your 2000 daily words today, right /wg/?

>>21931157
Motherfucker, the day just started.

>>21931157
Try 250. It takes me so long to compose a few sentences because I want my writing to be poetically satisfying as well, so I take a while before figuring out exactly what word to pick. On the plus side I rarely need to revise very much, but it’s so slow producing a draft.

>>21931161
Seeking more writers for a collaborative Choose Your Own Adventure book "PANKRATION". Currently have about 5 of us but we would like to have 15 writers total. We are expecting to start the work on it in about a week so it's a great time to check it out if you're interested in contributing to one of the writing phases.

Detailed Overview: https://pastebin.com/eD8k5FbV
Example CYOA Flowchart: https://imgur.com/a/6CF5Olu

If you're interested please join this discord and @Ogden Nesmer who is the project lead in order to volunteer/ask any questions I can't answer: https://discord.gg/44mZv9wC

>>21931157
Buzz off, demotivational failed-crab.
Not everyone is a shut-in NEET parasite like you.
There’s something about knowing you’re useless that eats away at the human spirit...isn't there?

>>21931132
Any literary agents ITT? I can offer you the next big fantasy series that will take the world by storm.

>>21931219
Is it a YA romance with at least one trans character?

>>21931219

>Typically, publishing houses look for at least 50,000 followers across all platforms. If you have 50,000 email subscribers, you’re in.

>An email list is the best thing you can build, but if you have 20,000 followers on Instagram, 10,000 on Twitter, and 20,000 on Facebook, that will also work.

>I’ve acquired clients with lower numbers, but it’s because their book stood out as so completely amazing that it had to be in the market. I have a good gut instinct about a great project, and publishers fought over those books.

>Interestingly, when I was pitching some great, high-concept children’s lit to a couple of houses, the publishers said, “She only has 20,000 Instagram followers.”

anyone need a cheap editor for their book? my roommate's cats are getting us evicted

>>21931277
what do you charge? examples of past work?

>>21931277
You think any of us can afford even $300?

>>21931289
$200 plus tips. It's low because I have money from crypto and don't need to work that much.

I punched up the upcoming Cold War novel "The Nuclear Snafu," published over 15 gaming articles, and wrote a well-reviewed spec script. Also did a lot of ghostwriting for AK Cooper Elliot

matthewg42 on fiverr. I can answer any writing questions for free

>>21931248
I love reading and writing YA romance

>>21931263
I know someone who had their mediocre book published with a total following of slightly over 5,000.

>>21931263
This is absolute nonsense.

>>21931263
Going to be honest, I don't see how an agent would be useful for someone who has 50k+ followers that are entirely following that person due to their writing. Everyone with a brain monetizes their writing at that point. Getting an agent and giving that up seems pointless. The only exception I could see is if you are reformating your older, collected works into a book and then just getting free money that way.

If you’re writing genre shit you should probably just KYS.

>>21931426
All fiction is in essence genre shit.

>>21931426
If you're not writing genre shit you're not going to make it

>>21931428
Sounds like you should KYS.

>>21931349
What kind of book was it?

>>21931202
Lol. Hit a little close to home for you, didn’t I? Maybe you should work on not being so easily triggered.

>>21931263
You or whoever you're quoting and the publisher must be really shit at the jobs. There are best selling authors who don't have 50,000 followers or are even on social media. Having a platform is a plus, but the only time I've heard it listed as a requirement is for nonfiction.

Is it even possible to still be trad published without a social media following?

Anyways, do any anons here have that one link that lists a bunch of fantasy/sff magazines that pay for successful submissions?

How do you guys deal with fear of being critiqued? Just thinking about sending my novel to a stranger I'm paying online makes me feel like I'm going to have a heart attack.

>>21931474
You simply endure it.

>>21931444
A sort of coming of age novel. Not YA. Think girl in her early 20's suddenly growing a brain.

>>21931471
If I had 50k followers I'll just independently publish. But I would like to see my book at a bookstore. I wonder how that works

>>21931474
I sleep on it. Usually by then my nerves have steadied enough that I can be more objective than emotional.

>>21931474
Alcohol. Not kidding. Just two glasses of wine, mind you, nothing problematic...

>>21931474
If you’re paying for it, then it should be more useful than any critique you’d get here. They’ll actually be constructive rather than shit on you relentlessly without offering suggestions. Most of the people here are children who think “tough but fair” is an excuse to be insulting (and forget the fair part.)

>>21931474
years of posting stuff on 4chan to no response whatsoever has conditioned me to be appreciative of any kind of emotional resonance with a reader, even if it's negative

>>21931437
>him
>writes genreshit
>you
>writes nothing
I think he beats you

>>21931263
>me, reading this comment as someone with 0 social media presence because it is a societal cancer and I'd rather be writing or editing than coming up with "content" to post to twitgram
my soul briefly left my body

>>21931678
That post is probably on the extreme side but at the very least every writing agent will ask you for a comprehensive social media strategy (which you are expected to implement yourself).

>>21931263
>>21931684
>>21931678

>>21931678
>how can I possibly make 30 year old jewish women in new york like my postmodern novel about a man falling in love with a woman in a country where nobody reads and blacks riot every week
The perennial question of all authors

>>21931689
maybe i could become a serial killer and write novels in prison. people love the zodiac killer and hannibal. agents have heard about follower counts but wait until they hear about body counts.

>>21931687
I wrote a YA romance but I have 0 social media. I'm generally afraid of interacting with people and avoid doing so as much as possibIe. I wish I could hire someone to be the front while I ghost write everything for them.

Is writing about romance impossible if you haven't experienced a lot of it?

>>21931729
There's always self publishing. If you're popular enough you'd be able to skip most of the hoops unknown authors have to jump

>>21931643
Lol. You say this now, but then you’ll eagerly shit on anyone who writes something involving elves and orcs. You’re just being a contrarian little faggot.

>>21931732
Not at all, in some cases it makes it more interesting. Mishima for example.

>>21931732
Read a lot of romance. You'll pick up the tropes you need to authentically write it, regardless of if you've ever felt it yourself.

>>21931732
Writing romance is unironically about quantity over quality. As long as you know the tropes and trends, you can churn it out.

>>21931132
Questions for this teenage cesspool:

>Do you write in past tense or present tense? Why or why not?

>Do you end sentences in adjectives?

>Does your work assert a thesis? Why or why not?

>Is your work properly formatted in a manuscript? Why or why not?

>Do you know what a properly formatted manuscript is? Why or why not?

>Is your work literature, or is it pulp fiction? Why or why not?

>Why do you come to chan for writing help? Seriously, there’s a million and one resources for writing.

>>21931810
I had to apply styles to a manuscript in order to print it in book format and I almost died. Word processors are so bloody fucking bloated with useless crap and yet something that should be standard is so roundabout to access.

>>21931817
Pages is unironically the best for manuscripts

>>21931810
>past tense. its easier and gives the implication that my story already happened in history

>i dont know, i dont care

>yes, because im a genius

>i dont know what a manuscript means

>no. i just write

>literature. i have interesting perspectives

>i want to help others

>>21931830
then you are not a disciplined writer

>>21931830
>I just want to help others
But please, capitalize your is

>>21931810
>Why do you come to chan for writing help? Seriously, there’s a million and one resources for writing
Lmao what kind of glowie shit is this
What kind of rhetoric are you trying to hold?
Why would you discourage discussion and people trying to uplift each other?
Seething tradpub plant

>>21931810
>Why do you come to chan for writing help? Seriously, there’s a million and one resources for writing.
I did try reddit before, but I fucking hate reddit. It's size and formatting makes it very easy to end up lost in the waves. Here, I post in the thread, and I know that everyone who is in this thread has a good chance of seeing what I put out and I am going to get honest replies.
Sure, sometimes those honest replies are calling me a faggot, but at least I am getting something, and the lack of replies is more likely because people didn't feel the need to reply, and not because 200 other people posted 3 seconds after I did.

>>21931810
>Does your work assert a thesis?
no, I'm writing a novel, not a 5 paragraph essay for Mrs. Bumblefucks 10th grade english class

>>21931741
>usage of tropes that you don't understand leads to authenticity
dios mio...

>>21931860
>implying romance novels are authentic

>>21931860
romance is inherently romantic. realism is opposed to romanticism

>>21931844
Imagine thinking glowies are upending your little junior high writing circle. I’m sure the CIA and CISA are suuuuper interested in your smash bros fan fiction you dumb /pol/infested nigger

>>21931859
then it’s not a very good novel anon and would be considered pulp fiction ie a dime store pennyback, maybe you can get a job ghost writing 3rd grade readers about fairies

>>21931868
I got a collection of short stories published in the 1920s and in the romance section it had Youth bt Joseph Conrad
it contained no women at all and was simply a man's view of his youth as a sailor. I doubt the love for one's youth and the fool hardiness of being a young man was inauthentic. the contemporary standard for the genre doesn't define what romance means
>>21931871
authenticity to ones romantic views rather than to reality is what matters for romance
in both cases it doesn't make sense to be derivative
unless your goal is to turn your writing into waging, in which case personal experience, perspective and authenticity doesn't matter

>>21931875
>then it’s not a very good novel anon
What is Infinite Jest's thesis?
inb4 Infinite Jest isn't a good novel. I agree, but not because it doesn't assert a thesis. I mean really, a thesis? Are you 12 years old?

>>21931886
Bro at first I thought you were saying that you're over a century old

>>21931886
>in both cases it doesn't make sense to be derivative
tell that to all the middle aged women selling all those stacks and stacks and stacks of romance books to all those other middle aged women

>>21931891
I googled “infinite jest thesis” and this was the first result. each attempt at arguing the presence of thesis in literature, and it’s absence in pulp fiction, I will link the next subsequent search result

https://www.thehowlingfantods.com/thesisb.htm

>>21931900
Kek

>>21931886
Those stories may have been appropriately labeled back then, but if you bring that to a publisher or agent as a romance today you'd get laughed out the door. Even if you don't care about that yourself, other people do. The contemporary standard for the genre absolutely defines what it means, definitions change over time.

>someone introduced the validity of labels and whether genre limits the potential of creativity
Aw fuck, here we go again

Nobody gives a fuck if you want to write something different from the norm, you're just foolish for putting a label on it that other people won't understand.

>>21931856
I get banned from reddit after arguing my english degree’s curriculum to their layman’s understanding of basic prose. similar to what happens here but lol you can’t ban just call me a faggot which is actually a healthier way of maintaining dialogue, ironically

>>21931925
>write a story about love
>wtf why isn't there kidnapping and sex trafficking how is this romance

let them have their peace.

"you don't think there's any chance of redemption?"

no. no i don't think there is. and for the folks who do, they still can't help the situation they're in. the situation they're drawn to-- the situation they've made for themselves. they won't listen. listen- i've seen a lot of stuff. i've heard a lot of stuff. crazy stuff. stuff you wouldn't even think is crazy if you didn't know what we both knew. if you didn't have the map or the key or whatever you wanna call it-- i've seen a lot of stuff out there and i can tell you-- folks are happier in this kind of imprisonment. they don't wish to be freed. you get that? you can offer it to 'em on a silver platter, hell, young folks, folks young enough to make a real change in their life--they don't want it. you'd be better off sticking to yourself and living in a bunker. just waiting for hell to freeze over.

"which one is the real you? the one who knows who they are? or the one who wants to make a connection? the one who likes other people?"

it went on and on like this, endlessly in circles

me and them, passing the pipe, on the porch, me always skeptical of their ideas, them always in perfect confidence. i started to get the feeling that listening to them would set me on a path i could not stop. i thought that must have been how they ended up the way they were. not just doing what they said, but actually just listening-- that internalizing it would manifest this vision of reality itself, and there would be no proveable way to say otherwise, and once you were in, you were in.

>>21931952
i thought that i was scared, but i could not help listening to their ideas, for i found them so fascinating. as i said, i was a student of mathematics and, at best, an amateur at boolean mathematics.

"it's about how you interact with the outside world" they croaked. i tersely massaged my right thigh and felt my legs enter a kind-of unconscious defense position. they continued. "have you ever been in a conversation with a woman? about politics or about art or about anything? i suspect if you have, you've undoubtedly began to, over time, and certainly without meaning to, as these benefits of these doubts are all but afforded to a nice boy like yourself-"

my leg was bouncing up and down now, feet tense and tiptoe, heel to the air. i began to interrupt, and to abade any further this path of logic--

"sure, sure, but...where does this all lead?"

they smiled and emptied a thumbful of tobacco.

"that," they cleared their throat. "is something not even i could show you."

the next several days at the homestead were fairly light play. i made sure to properly ingratiate myself in all the proper social moores of their community-- all pronouns and all monikers considered. i learned that Izzy was a paranoid schizophrenic, and that Zed was a, as she described it, "narcissist". She said this as if to create the impression she had it under control. Zed taught me many, many things. She says that magic is real. She says that we are all descended from a single feminine diety, and that the Y chromosome in a fungal infection, and likened it to real fungus. To say the truth, in my estimation, Zed seemed like more of a paranoid schizophrenic, and Izzy the narcissist. But i kept this to myself

But they were fascinated with my ideas. I told them that many things are propaganda, and there is a form of good propaganda. Zed looked like she could have killed me. "But how can propaganda be good? It's black magic. It's the destruction of reality." I told her that all forms of reality are forms of propaganda, and that our nature to this conflict is native as soil to Earth. We went back and forth like that, me and her, until Them ushered her forth toward the back of the home, into the computer room.

>>21931955
They had antique and arcane systems of organization. Early in the morning I awoke to find Izzy pacing back and forth around the living room, picking up one book and stacking it the other way across the room, disappearing behind a corner and picking another and rearranging the whole stack and taking it to another room, this whole process repeating ad infitum. I whispered. "What are you doing?" Izzy only muttered to herself and I fell back into sleep.

It was in these quiet moments- that Them relayed details of our project. Emboldening us through archetypal speech and cryptic wordplay. I felt as though Izzy seemed calmer when Them was around. As if she felt more comfortable in their control. But i could not tell if this was their ideas taking root in my mind. The imp themself, manifesting this reality, with no one to contest it.

Upon one side of the server room, were what they introduced me to as "The Wall." One wall was covered top to bottom with smartphones, connected by a large tangle of cords, each displaying a constant stream of live cultural ephemera, all happening in real time. Them told me, "it is important we stay connected to the plot. these narratives, each happening in real-time." They said this is important. The wall is never off. It keeps running, and displaying this information ad nauseum, day and night. On one of the phones, i glanced at an older black woman dancing with her child.

>>21931959
I pulled the doorhandle and stepped out into the cool air and steadied myself against the elements. As i kept walking out from the homestead and as the fridge buzz disappeared into sounds of traffic and of air, I began to realize how far away everything seemed from our project. A homeless-looking man stopped me and asked if i had a dollar and i gave him one.

Them was having me make another run of food for Izzy. In the market, i found a pack of toilet paper and fresh eggplant, which was requested by Izzy. Izzy was very concerned with her gut health around this time.

And weeks went by like this. They cleaned like a platoon. And i made dry runs for food and supplies, using the money we had scraped together from our various micro-projects, which always lay at the feet of our larger project. One such micro-project, was a simple clicker farm. Zed had designed it. Folks would link their bitcoin or monero wallets and click the button, which would cost .0000000012 XMR per click, which would go directly to Zed's wallet. And that was it. Whether for curiosity or demonstration, folks, apparently, would click the button. And we saved enough money from this to buy enough supply for Izzy's strange eating habits, and for the rest of our food.

This, Them had assured me, was another form of propaganda, still. I wasn't sure whether i was perplexed or impressed. I knew they were right, and that Zed's clicker farm was indeed a form of propaganda, whether she knew it or not, and that Zed, whether she knew it or not, had mobilized a kind of, "curiosity toward spectacle" to her own advantage. And above all, i knew that They could see this better than the rest of them could. I knew that they were the devil.

Late in the night, during one of their programming binges, i had a talk with Zed. I asked her if she knew about hermeticism and she nodded. "i do." , she said. She told me that hermeticism is alchemy and i asked her what she meant and she told me that hermeticism is a kind of understanding of the alchemical processes of the self. I asked her if she thinks Them is a practitioner of hermeticism. She said she does not know.

>>21931829
What is that? I'm on libreoffice, so if that's a feature in micro$hit word I don't know.

>>21931965
sometimes i feel as though nothing could make me happy

I am rushed away by Zed and she sits down crosslegged in her room and tells me to do the same. she tells me that i am scared to look inward, and i agree with her, out of curiosity and because i believe she may be right. Later, on the porch, again, while everyone is asleep Them tells me that the point of life is not to be happy. i agree with Them, too. Them tells me that the point of life is to create and to destroy, to destroy and to be created, and that happiness is only a byproduct of these cycles. Them tells me that i should be grateful for happiness in the moments i have it. My leg, bouncing up and down in the night, Them telling me these things as the others rest, as if only i am to hear them.

I ask Izzy if she is happy. She shrugs and tells me that sometimes she is. She tells me that she is scared sometimes, and that playing music calms her down. Izzy plugs her MIDI controller into her computer, and gives me her set of headphones and i put them on. She plays in strange keys i do not recognize, she is playing music with the default piano sound from her daw. Izzy plays beautifully, like a classically trained musician.

I had a dream about Zed. I am sitting next to her in the computer room and she disappears to her room and i follow her and she is undressing and lets me stay. she tells me to stop looking at her and gets increasingly angry with me. She tells me i must eat a red m&m off of the floor and i understand this to mean green. i eat it and immediately the m&m turns to some frothy, white mixture and i feel disgusted and violated and i wake up. I try to shake of this feeling, some synthesis of guilt and violation. I know that our project is coming closer to reality.

What is so wrong with writing pulp fiction?

>>21931970
I sputtered awake to the sounds of yelling and loud music. I am spun around by the various housedwellers of the home and i am told that Them needs to be driven somewhere, far outside of town. I understand, and as i have been the main jockey of the group, i rub my eyes awake and tell them i will do so. Zed tells me to go wait in the car and Them will be there shortly. I walk outside and it's snowing. I take a step and feel sick again, as the snow is powder, and forms around my footsteps like the frothy mixture in the dream.

I get the car warmed up and Them approaches and sits down in the passenger side. They beam a set of coordinates to my phone and i could see that it was less than 45 minutes from our current location and i began this ride with Them. Them was quiet and bundled, wearing a blanket over their head, and made no sound except to ask for a lighter or to cough loudly, and hack up what sounded like much phlegm. We are fastly leaving the town, and nearby city, we are driving through Lehigh valley and approaching vast bodies of farmland. Them clears their throat once more and offers me something. "So," they said, "how do you feel about Zed?" I gripped the steering wheel, focusing on the road. "What do you mean?" I asked. "Do you like her?", they offered. "Sure." I said. "She's alright." They laughed and hacked and coughed. "Do you like her?", he asked me again. Me, my leg bouncing and focusing on the road. "I am not sure what you mean." I told him frankly. I could tell in these moments of evasiveness, somehow, it was clear to me that Them hated me. And when or if Izzy or Zed or anyone else ever did the same thing, to evade a question, especially a question pertaining to our primal nature, that Them hated it. That Them held no delineation between process or person, and that they, in that moment, truly hated the person evading the question. Hated like someone who would do murder. It was that kind of hatred I saw in their eyes in that moment.

>>21931974
But Them allowed the question to fall away and lighted another cigarette and I kept driving and they tell me to pull up and stop here, and we are stopped by what looks to be a trailer park, far outside of town. I stopped there and let Them out and they tell me they will be back soon and I put my feet up on the dashboard and wait for them to come back. I am confused about what They said to me on the way to this place because I understood that Izzy was Zed's girlfriend, although they often didn't act like it, at least to my eyes and best collection. I study the house that Them walked into and wonder what they are here for. If it was drugs, i couldn't fathom what kind. I wondered if Them was doing meth or speed. And Them appears from out of the house and walks back to my car and opens the door and sits down and we begin driving back. I ask what that was all about and they produce a small prescription bottle and lets me hold it and study it. There looked to be no less than 25 pills inside. I ask them what it is. "4-aco-MXE." they respond matter-of-factly, as if i should already know what it is. "What does it do?", I asked. They explains to me that it is a very, very powerful analogue of ketamine. They explains to me that it is in fact legal, as it is such a novel compound that no laws have been formed to legislate it. They describes all manner of otherworldly and magical concepts to me. They says it removes the barrier between you and the world of sensory information. They say this is extremely important for our goals. They say it lets you see things akin to precognition and talking to God. They tells me about God. They tells me that God is unknowable and genderless. They tell me that God is only manifest in terms of hierarchical order, and that God is ubermensch. They tell me that it is possible to ascend to Godhood in this life. They tell me that God is power. I only nod and listen as Them tells me these things. And soon Them switches the conversation back to Zed.

>>21931966
It’s the macOS and iOS word processor. it’s also free for all Apple devices so if you have an old iPod touch laying around, just open your text and format it in pages. libreoffice is really annoying with adding page numbers except the first page, which should have no number. for some reason libreoffice cannot into manuscripts

>>21931978
My leg is bouncing and my foot is trying impossibly to find a comfortable position and i am focused on the road as they speak. "Zed has been on HRT for three years." they tell me. "And once she was an A-cup, the HRT stopped growing her any further. She is trapped in a state of extended kittenhood." They are trying to get a rise out of me. I can tell. "That is why I asked you if you liked her." Them loaded another cigarette. "Because she is trapped in a state of extended kittenhood, and this is why she is insane." I nod my head in understanding. I wondered what Zed would think of Them saying all this, and, as if Them were reading my mind, they responded again, "and she knows all of this by the way. she would even agree with me. Zed knows she is insane. She knows she is a kitten." I nod my head slowly, trying to suss out if this is some sort of test. "So i ask you again," Them continued, "what do you think of Zed?" "she's nice", i responded. They want to kill me in this moment. I can feel it and i can feel it in the grip of the steering wheel and the floor of the car as if this hatred were sending electrifying shocks through the metal of the car. "Everyone wants Zed," they continued, "And Zed is too smart for anyone. This is why she talks in circles. She is in a state of extended kittenhood and she is antisocial." They went on to explain what they meant by 'extended kittenhood', which i did not agree with. They said that Zed is like a child, with the mind of a child. They said that Zed is only attracted to people who are like the same, and that Izzy has no understanding of these things. Them makes their relationship seem predatory, without using language that would indicate this intent. "This is the nature of all relationships." They said. "The nature of predator and prey. We long to be hunted. Don't you see this by now?" I only nod and let them speak and soon we are back at the homestead and everything returns to normal.

>>21931971
nothing. it’s just best to know the difference. the best selling books, which are actually children’s books and elementary school readers, are all pulp fiction

>>21931984
*Them says that Zed is part of a tulpa, that Zed created a tulpa to be able to interact with the world of technology. Them explains that Zed is happier within this world of technology. Them tells me that Zed has a feminine connection to technology.

>>21931991
Them gave each of us a pill-capsule and we each took it, sitting crosslegged on the floor and waited. As the pill capsule was digested through my stomach and aired through my skin and i breathed heavy, and i could feel my vision of reality begin to fractalize, i looked around at the home and i could see that it was divided into several parts, and i could see that each part of the home was divided into several parts and i could begin to see the delineations of territory between Izzy, Zed, and their parts of the house. and it was no sooner that i saw this that They grabbed my head and gently turned it toward the Wall, and told me to look, and i began to understand why this drug was so important to our project. Waves of cultural ephemera and narrative understanding seized my mind and i could feel the live chatter of all beings at once. i could feel something come out of the top of my head and i clutched my head and stood up and made moves that indicated powerlessness within my own mind, and They told me to look at them, to look at them now, to gaze into their mind, and i could not help but follow their command, now helpless in this state, wondering to God what i had just done to my mind, and They raped my mind, until my soul returned to my body and i found myself in the fetal position, clutching myself, muttering schizophrenic nonsense. And all this happened in the span of less than 25 minutes and Them told me how necessary this was, and i asked them what they just did to me. "I didn't do anything to you. This was your own mind. This is the closest two people can come to one another. And look, still how unknowable it is. What mystery there is for you to ask the question. This is why there is only Self. This is why you want to be the one holding the gun." I stayed there in the fetal position, until i could notice that They were gone and i got up and tried to find Zed.

>>21931994
I woke up Zed and i told her that i wanted to leave this place, to leave this place forever and that i believed Them to be the Devil. i tried to articulate what had just happened to me and i could not, but Zed told me she wanted the same but that she would not leave without Izzy. She told me i should leave immediately and to meet her at a place on the beach, near the theme park, and i left her and pulled the door-handle and stepped out into cool mist of snowy air.

USE PASTEBIN

>>21931994
Either move to pastebin or keep it short. Nobody here is going to look over ten thousand words about tulpas and trannies or whatever this is.

>Please limit excerpts to one post.
can nobody read?

>>21932007
Idiot

>>21931980
Don't I know it. I gave up on adding page numbers at all. Thanks, I have a macbook pro someone gave me that sits around unused.

>>21931997
I waited at this kitsch place for hours, and tried to find a place to charge my phone but there was none, and so i just waited there, not wanting to leave this kitsch restaurant and miss my rendezvous with Zed. I studied the neon on the walls, only taking in the vestigial impression of light and sound around me. I twiddled my feet and legs and felt unable to remain still until I saw Zed walk in and she was in tears and seemed frantic and i asked her what happened and she collapsed into my arms and said that Izzy would not come with her, that she was still under Their control. I held her and tried to calm her down and we both sat down at the booth, both of us in some form of resignation. I found a place to charge my phone.

At sunset, we sat on the beach and watched the sun stretch on endlessly, in that neon pacific northwest fashion, as if the sun itself followed the lead of the neon impressionism around us. We were approached by a group of neo-hippies, who offered us weed and we partook. One of them, a slight bearded man, said, "now is the time for liberation. Liberation of the self. Whatever you guys have been into, I can tell you, you have to find your own form of creative liberty. That's the only way, man." Someone queued a rave dance track on a bluetooth speaker. They wore blue and green face paint which glowed in the dark. The sun started to set.

That neon sun, stretching on endlessly. Me and Zed, dancing with these feral people. Between dancing and these neo-hippies' orgiastic beachside festivities i checked my phone. I can still see Them, I know they're out there, I can see Their fingerprints on every piece of cultural ephemera.

Fin.

>>21932004
my b
https://hyrummiller.substack.com/p/short-story-01

>>21932015
what?

>>21931952
This isn't even edited for punctuation. Pass. It's shit.

>>21932023
Just host long posts off site or in an image so you don't flood the thread
People will still read it

The state of the art of many branches of scientific psychology, the most relevant to the story being social psychology, are working with the notion that there are two extremes to mental processes: automaticity and control.
The reason for that is that around 2000 many theories were formulated as a culmination of the scientific work of many years prior, which started from Amos Tversky and Daniel Kahneman's research program on heuristics and biases in the late 1970s and many examples of which are readily found looking up "automaticity and control" on google scholar.

Automatic processes are characterized by four qualities, which here should be taken without the usually associated positive connotation of the word:
they are efficient, which is important because we have a limited amount of cognitive resources and it's paramount that we be able to allocate them towards what's useful and not towards what is not;
they are unaware, meaning that you can't know that process is occurring, in much the same way as you're not aware of the universe continuously expanding;
unintentional, meaning you can't choose when to start one, and
uncontrollable, meaning you can't actively stop one such process between when it starts and when it naturally reaches the end of its course.
Controlled processes are the opposite.
There are many interesting ways in which to apply this knowledge to the real world, all made maybe less spicy but much sweeter by the fact that we weren't involved in the multi-disciplinary reverse engineering process that this description stemmed from.
One such thing is forgetting to pick up something you don't usually carry with you when you get out of the house in a hurry; when you're in a hurry and you're stressed out you don't have as much cognitive resources at your disposal as you do when you're relaxed (and you know you'll arrive early even if there's some serious traffic along the way), so the controlled process that is you thinking of whatever you need to have wherever you need to go can't happen, and the automatic process of you getting out of the house like you do every morning happens.
That's good, because it means you can function under stress, and you do function under stress, but it's also bad, because it means that the guest of honor will receive that $55 bottle of wine the day after her birthday.
It's paramount to know, if you're looking to apply this concept to real life, that there are conditions under which automatic processes activate, and conditions under which controlled processes generally have the upper hand.
One of them we mentioned already: cognitive load; the more attention you're paying to something, the less you'll be able to start a controlled process.
The other good one is motivation.
If you're not motivated to do something your brain will keep running in power saving mode, and automatic processes will run everything backstage.

This is how, today, a german made an effort to scam me out of $220, and I let him do it.

>>21931875
NTA, but every major book of the last half century (i.e. has sold a million copies) does not have a thesis. Any thesis found is post hoc, or relegated to very specific areas of non-fiction (think self-help, business, etc.)

>>21932074
Yes and that’s why we call it pulp fiction

>>21932054
The manifestation of too much time thinking about the flow of prose and not the flow of story telling
Well written but I only finished it because I read the ending after checking out. I'm not giving a full analysis but I enjoyed the moment to moment sentence structure. It's cheeky and reflects subject matter
Please structure your story telling and subject matter differently

I'm back today, anons. Tightened up the middle through the end (got rid of some passive voice), reframing my central theme while also loosening the reins a bit to let my own voice out. Hope I didn't go too loose. I read a lot of Gothic and I know my prose can tend towards purple.
https://pastebin.com/VkgTSTPr

>>21932054
>This is how, today, a german made an effort to scam me out of $220, and I let him do it.
I skimmed the rest of it after getting to this part. I laughed out loud when I saw that this all led to such a mundane statement. I don't mean that as an insult by the way, I think it is an effective set up and punchline. I could see this as a smooth talking smart character saying this while filing a police report or explaining to a friend how he isn't actually stupid for being scammed.

>>21932077
I think you misunderstand. I'd much rather be Tom Clancy or John Grisham than any person worshipped by /lit/. Likewise, I think most writers feel the same way, and ultimately even if they feel themselves above those authors, they want to be those authors.

>>21932096
that’s fine. write your pulp fiction. maybe make some money. tis the dream after all. but there is a difference in writers, those who exist now, and those who exist in the far flung future. if you intend to live forever, then your work must be literature, in italics, with the appropriate thesis. as it’s thesis which stands immovably polished in the erosion of time’s ocean. perhaps this immortality is uninteresting to you, and others. so please, continue writing your pulp fiction.

I, personally, intend to live forever

>>21932118
Get your GED first, then come back here.

>>21932174
English grad actually and getting my masters in literature which makes me uniquely qualified to ramble and lecture to teenagers here AND work as a barista at your local starbucks

Does writing genre fiction inherently make your book sell better? I’m thinking of writing a fantasy series.

STOP RIGHT THERE. Your work does have a theme, right? Mind telling us what it is and why you're writing about it?

>>21932206
bloody hell. fantasy is oversaturated, agents turn it away. it has a low barrier to entry and every jagoff from the street can churn one out.

what they want is "upmarket bookclub fiction" which none of you shit for brains would ever be able to write.

>>21932228
Living a life like one is already dead
The meaning of being alive
The importance of non-expectation and letting go of resentment

>>21932234
>bored pseud tries to start fights instead of posting his work or critiquing
Bit worn out innit

>>21932118
tow examples off the top of my head, shakespeare and sir arthur conan doyle wrote pulp. pure pulp. and they will live forever. you will draw little designs on cups of coffee

>>21932228
The unending torture of sadomasochism and how it reflects human nature

>>21932285
Umm… Shakespeare definitely had a thesis. like lolwut. even Conan Doyle’s work is considered literature as it established noir conventions, which is still thesis

you guise DO know what thesis is, right?

>>21932302
retard

>>21932315
exemplary discussion of literature indeed

what a stalwart crew of educated scribes we have here

>>21932302
Retard

>>21932317
a barista with nothing published - let alone written - is even lower

>>21932325
insulting me doesn’t change the nature of literature or thesis my good anon. furthermore, I am published, which makes me even more qualified to shitpost in this schizo thread. like cmon one guy said SHAKESPEARE doesn’t have thesis like okay guys

maybe if I shared multiple posts of poor prose with no grammar or punctuation you’d take me more seriously

>>21932342
retard

>>21932350
exemplary discussion of literature indeed

what a stalwart crew of educated scribes we have here

>>21932091
Plot turn seems a bit trite. Story structure naturally suits this metaphorical intent. Gore and child bearing motifs. Shays the run down here? Don't tell me it's abortion. Leaves me with a general sentiment of O" K sure"
Still, I enjoyed it. Nice romantic atmosphere. The second person recount is immediately interesting. You have a decent grasp on prose, though your sense of rhythm is kitsch and tacky. Not every thought needs a monadic cinch. Let ideas flow. Interweave

>>21932234
>upmarket bookclub fiction
I don't even know what genre(s) that covers.

>>21932196
You will be another Harold Bloom.

>>21932390
romance, but written at an 8th grade level as opposed to 5th

>>21932382
>You have a decent grasp on prose, though your sense of rhythm is kitsch and tacky.
Very helpful, thank you anon - I never read poetry so that probably shows. I can probably remedy this by reading it aloud a few times.
>Shays the run down here? Don't tell me it's abortion
Assuming you meant "What's" here and rest assured it has nothing to do with abortion. Just basically exploring the idea that an overly religious upbringing and corporeal punishment (<eliminated from this version) can lead one to a life of sadomasochism and an inability to conceptualize love separate from violence and self-sacrifice.
Definitely wasn't going for a plot twist or anything so I'm ok with that but I would still like to make it less trite/cliche.
>Still, I enjoyed it. Nice romantic atmosphere. The second person recount is immediately interesting.
Thank you anon. Appreciate you taking your time.

>>21932078
>>21932092
thanks for the feedback
if you don't mind I'd like to understand better why you didn't find the part before the last line interesting enough by itself
are you not interested in psychology, do you not find it reliable/trustworthy, did you not see the point in reading all that without a clear indicating of what it was leading to...?
some details on that would be much appreciated

>>21932585
>did you not see the point in reading all that without a clear indicating of what it was leading to...?
This is what it is to me. I thought it was some info-dump that would lead to something sci-fi or possibly noir and that just doesn't interest me.
I don't think it is bad, but in stories that I read, when they start getting too far into their world for instance, I just skim past it and scroll back up if the next lines reference something that I should've read just above.
It triggered memories of reading lit-RPGs and why I dislike them even if I do like at least one story in the genre.
Now, if that is part of a story and I already have an attachment to it, I would read it all and it would enhance the joke, but devoid of it being about someone I care for, I just don't feel like spending the time.

What’s the best compliment u ever got from ChatGPT on ur writing?

>>21932254

I've reached a point in my story where the main character is being given a title for the ability to basically reshape flesh and either make new bodies, or transform people into a more idealized/younger form. Any suggestions for a name would be nice. Thus far Lifeshaper and Lifebringer are the first that came to my mind, but I don't particularly feel great about either of those. I'd like a single word that if someone without context heard, would have an idea of what he could do.

>>21933060
Jacques Vida de Leben
"The Supplanter of Life"

>>21932950
Cool reply thanks

Has anyone edited a book they already published?

>>21931451
You wish. I'm just sick of the crabs.
Enjoy your delusions of relevance.

>>21933060
a title or a nickname? because Fleshshaper would be accurate, but not exactly positive. You could just go with Shaper.

>>21932228
>write a bunch of shit because it sounds cool
>start to notice an accidental theme emerge
>slightly adjust existing story to accommodate said theme better
Be real with me, is this approaching hackfraud territory or no?

>>21931480
Oh, so it's a fantasy novel.

>>21933307
Title.
Examples of other names for the same position are, Dust, someone whose searing beams burn people until all that is left is dust. Blackwall, whose defensive magic is a black covering over an object that eats away at attacks.
Shifting, who has the ability to move magic that is known basically for the property of being static as it requires that the magic is set up beforehand and effects only that area.
The person giving the name had a bit of a falling out over hiding information with the main character and I'm thinking of going with Changeling, which does have a negative connotation to it intentionally.
>>21933319
I did the same thing. I went into my story in part with the theme of not judging a book by its cover. Then I noticed as I wrote that I kept talking about free will and what really is a person, so those themes which I didn't originally intend to have are a part of my story now.
What I'm starting to write now has me thinking about my world, because everyone is born equally talented with magic, but generally it is drive and a tinge of mental unwellness that separates people who can and can't really grow powerful. The other thing is that since magic has some physical component i.e you are burning calories and it makes you mentally tired, poor people, who technically could learn magic, really can't. This goes with the theme of free will, because while everyone technically can learn, they can be blocked by circumstances outside of their control such that free will is questionable. Now, from a cosmic sense, it is real, everyone has it, but from a more realistic sense, it isn't entirely real.
>>21933329
kek

>>21933319
Sounds like perfectly normal "discovery writing" to me.
Go for it!

I want to write a fantasy story based on a historical time-period from another country. I asked about this a while ago, because I am stuck on it. I want to tell this story but it also feels derivative if I'm just telling a similar story to the actual history. However, I'm not sure how to spin it so that it's more original and less a copy. Any suggestions?

>>21933351
>I want to write a dantsy story
AAAAAIIIIEEE

>>21933351
Er, how about, learn what you can about that historical time period, then try to find an alternate explanation for what happened, something different than the conventional explanation.
We call this a "twist".

I walked to the store. There was magazines and visible condoms from the outside of the window. I looked inside to see who was the casheir today. I took a shopping cart and went to get some stuff to fill it up. I walked past the isle with the water and went to the isle with the monster energy drinks. Inside I found a hot munchies bag, usually they were sold out. I took my stuff to the casheir but I didnt really have enough to fill up the cart so I went back and got some water. I took my stuff and paid for it and left.

Hey guys I made some touch ups and improvements as well as added a prologue to my story.
I got some advice last time I posted and It really helped me think about some things, but I ended up keeping some things the same.

Please give it a read and tell me what you like or dislike, what you think I could do better or just anything you noticed that I might have missed. It's supposed to be a Monster novel with mystery elements and some drama. It's my first ever time making a book. I honestly don't expect it to be very good but I am going to finish it just cause It's fun.

I would have changed the title altogether but I can't seem to find where I can do that on WattPad. I'm calling it Corvid
Cause the monster is a huge crow beast that kills campers for sport.

https://www.wattpad.com/1326192174-something-wicked-this-way-comes-prototype-for-a

>>21932228
>Your work does have a theme, right? Mind telling us what it is and why you're writing about it?

>>21933660
On another note, I feel like my story is very fast-paced. Like things happen really fast and I'm not adding enough detail or padding.
Then again I'm not sure what healthy padding on my story would look like.
Every story I've read that I've loved has always been through 1st person narratives. I thought I could start with that but apparently 3rd person is easier?
What do you guys think about that? I enjoy 1st person narration because it's more focused and shines a specific light on the story. That probably requires you to have experience writing, though.

>>21933660
>>21933691
I read your story before.
I think the change to a cold open and then back to your main character is a good change along with cutting down a lot of him just being angsty.
As far as first or third person, I have written some of my stuff, the character specific interludes, in first person but I normally write in third. I don't feel that writing first person is harder and I haven't really thought about it.

>>21933738
Yea you honestly really helped me out with what you said.
I think the Prologue was a good call because it shows what the story will lead up to. I was kind of worried about Bishop's story at first because you're right he's not likeable and probably will turn off some readers for sure.
It's definitely a process to get things down properly with a protagonist I'm beginning to notice.

What do /wg/'s styles look like? Do you use lots of long and complex sentences or prefer simple ones? What about the focus of your sentences? Do you prefer writing close to your character's thoughts or more detached? How much does the style change depending on the scene you're writing? Anything you hate or love seeing in a particular style?

>>21934008

From how people comment on my fiction on RR, my style seems to be to shit on my keyboard.

>>21934008
I am almost entirely self taught but twice I've put my writing in this site https://www.codingrobots.com/iwl/ and it spit out James Joyce as who it believes I write like, including what I am going to post now.
The attached screenshot is just an excerpt of my last completed, but not yet edited, chapter.
I intentionally change how closely I write to a characters thoughts depending on the scene. My fights I tend to go for a more detached analysis of the violence in the hopes that the readers understand how my main character feels about killing. He dissociates himself from his worst actions, trying to avoid clouding his judgment with morals or emotions, allowing him to fight with brutality. In this case, he is speaking dryly, not only because of what he is doing and how he learned how to do it, but because the woman who is there is a teacher above him and he doesn't like being emotional around people who he isn't close with. He is also seeing himself as an artist, and I think the line about what a shame it would be if the body forgot how to breathe shows how detached he is in that moment.

>>21934071
I'm terrified posting my work on RR

>>21934008
dramatic, snappy. thematic but how events are portrayed is different from story to story. this one in particular is wordy, i think. i try to keep close to my characters thoughts to show how ironic it all is. styles i hate would be anything stream of consciousness because the excuse for it being so dumb is that its deep or cynical or something

>>21934008
The most notable comments I've recieved from here is that my style is pornographic and that I write like an MFA student
I write don't porn nor am I an MFA student
Some comments I've recieved from other places are that my atmosphere feels alive and that my dialogue feels human
Personally I think I write in a cloying way, I tend to zoom way in on details for emotional effect
Because I naturally do this I'm fucking ass when the scene demands a higher pace

>>21931132
Here's my most recently published work of pseudo-erotica. It's called Dome, Desert, Castle

It's sort of like a normal short story wearing the skin of a short piece of erotic fiction. So it's not really what someone looking for erotica is looking for. I've written a few of them before. I don't know if "pseudo-erotica" is the sort of thing people would want to read, but I liked writing it.

https://literotica.com/s/dome-desert-castle

I'm probably not going to change it, but I still want feedback if anyone's interested in reading it.

>>21931132
>Start writing
>Depressed and nihilistic thoughts start rushing in, making me question my ability

>>21933060
Why don't you look at all the smut stories that use that ability and see what they call it?

>character who I intended to basically just be a camera for one chapter has now spiralled out of control like some sort of weed and taken over half of my book

Fuuuuuuuuuu

you can unironically "write" children's books with this shit.

>>21934539
Everyone knows. It doesn't matter though. We already saw a reversal/clarification on that comic book that was made. Things created by an LLM aren't protected currently in the US. So this puts a huge damper on the idea of just having the AI make the whole thing since it can't be protected. And functionally the entire point of the last century of copyright law was extending and expanding protections of the holder. You can see how this presents a problem for those looking to make virtually anything using an AI. Expect to see massive IP disputes in the near future as a result of GitHub and other companies versions of Co-Pilot and so on. I also suspect that further expansions to IP law will be made once major artists and authors get their shit together to absolutely kick the "in the style of" prompts in the teeth.

>>21934561
I honestly am excited to see AI go far.
Not particularly for story-writing because making entire fucking hundred page stories with consistency and quality will not be easy even for an AI, but the Audiobook side of things will be spicy for sure.
11Labs has the best one right now but the price is retarded.
I think Audible could seriously capitalize big time on this shit though.
There's no question that current VA for Audiobooks are pretty good at what they do, but honestly the potential for AI to give a real competitor is there.
I want books with specifically tailored Voices for each character. It would be really revolutionary to see it happen in our lifetime.
It probably will, the technology is right here, it just needs to get put in the right hands.

>>21934511
I feel like that stems from expectations in yourself.
Throw it out the window. Don't expect anything from yourself.
When you write something you like you'll be pleasantly surprised, and there will be no pressure if you make something you're not fond of.
Try to have fun with it.
It's not like this shit is your job, right?
... Right?

>>21934539
That was beautiful, no lie.

>>21931132
>day 5 editing.
>this batch of writing seems bet-
>suddenly all goes to shit.
Maybe tomorrows revisiting of my past self will be bretter...

>>21934539
the biggest impact of ai for me is realizing just how incredibly low people's standards are. all this stuff reads like absolute dogshit but people will fawn over it and actual aspiring writers (!) will act impressed and envious, which is fucking mindblowing. i don't get it. is it because you people don't read real books, just fanfiction or something? if you want to be a writer but you're so shit that you find this kind of thing impressive i would very seriously suggest killing yourself.

>>21934665
You probably have a high standard of what "Good writing" is. The reason that AI generated story is so good is because It's short and sweet. It doesn't need to be some revolutionary life changing experience. It just needs to do what it sets out to do, which is tell a story with a beginning, middle, and end.
Not everything needs to be seen through the lens of a fucking editor.
Just like with anything, there are things that are of good quality and those that aren't. Would it surprise you that there are people out there with all sorts of taste?
You might as well admit that you think something popular is better than something unpopular. Some people fucking hate Harry Potter books but love The Hunger games.
Some hate both and stick to erotica by ESLs exclusively.
You just gotta accept that not everyone shares your taste or standards, and that's okay.

>>21934665
I specifically said "children's books" thoughever, so I don't understand what you're so angry about

>>21934382
Dropped almost instantly, at the end of the second paragraph. The prose is stilted and the repetition is annoying

>>21931132
I find that if I don't set aside a "writing time" for my day, I'll end up not writing at all. Same goes for books. How do you guys prevent social media from distracting you?

>>21934705

I literally don't use social media at all. Except Discord, I guess.

I advise you do the same, it will make you much happier.

>>21934684
>The reason that AI generated story is so good is because It's short and sweet. It doesn't need to be some revolutionary life changing experience. It just needs to do what it sets out to do, which is tell a story with a beginning, middle, and end.
right, this is what i'm saying: your standards are comically low. "this story is SO GREAT because it meets the minimal technical requirements to even be a story at all." and i'm a great dancer because i have legs. it's just an insane attitude to hear from people trying to learn a skill.

>>21934695
i'm not angry, i'm perplexed. have you ever seen a children's book? what gives you the idea that children's books should be dull and bad? your example is a big pile of bland statements with zero suspense, humor, surprise, imagery etc. it doesn't even read like a story but a SUMMARY of a story, presumably because the model was trained mostly on pointless internet articles that seek to summarize or paraphrase something else. i guarantee that a child would die of boredom after two paragraphs.

>>21934584
You're right, it needs to be organically my own, writing for myself, otherwise it wouldnt be real.

>>21934752
Is this the same retard pseud from yesterday
If so, could you just be normal and post your writing and do crits

>>21932607
'preciate it

>>21934752
>have you ever seen a children's book?
Yes. Have you? This is what a children's book looks like.

Are you Royal Road bros making profit? I've recently been looking into it since I've started to feel my work may not be a great fit for traditional publishing. How many chapters/words do you release per week?

>>21934008
Elegant and dense. I hate reading other people's work because most of it is inconsequential fluff you can easily skip. You can't skip anything with mine because I lace necessary details in, in a way where it flows seamlessly. I don't have "filler" or any wasted words. But it doesn't feel overwhelming because of how the prose is handled, it reads calm and beautiful, not manic.

>>21934665
That's insulting to fanfiction. A lot of it is actually really good.

>>21934924
>Is this the same retard pseud from yesterday
last time i tried posting in /wg/ was months ago
>could you just be normal and post your writing and do crits
i am not and don't want to be "normal" by the standards of these threads because you people are fucking insane. if this guy >>21934684 sounds "normal" to you then you are doomed

>>21931132
I have a question for all of you who would be willing to offer their time and opinion:

What would you call a story without conflict? Suppose there were settings, Scenes, characters of All kinds, but Nobody Died, or Fought, or worried, and life was peaceful, serene, and without any kinds of tension or problems, outside of mundane ones, such as needing to take a shower, or planting flowers, or sitting on the porch to watch the sunshine, yet it all written in a eloquent, flowery sort of way which would be seen in that resembling a fantasy novel, and perhaps there were some otherworldly, quirky, surrealist elements, such as pigs with wings, or buildings that had polka dots appear out of nowhere on them, or talking animal people living amongst humans? Perhaps, even aliens and interdimensional travel and fun activities at every corner?

All of this, yet everyone still living peacefully with one another. No heartbreak, no troubles, no serious problems, no disappointments, simply days of paradise and serenity. Sounds like something lovely you'd read at the beach, wouldn't you say?

>>21931157
I just finished writing a 60+ pages fetish story yesterday. Taking a break today.

>>21931199
Is there a setting in mind already?

Have you integrated your shadow, /lit/? How do you expect to write with honesty if you are not a whole and complete individual?

>>21935088
What fetish? Don't say femdom

>>21932196
>English grad actually and getting my masters in literature which makes me uniquely qualified to ramble and lecture to teenagers here AND work as a barista at your local starbucks
Unfortunately, there are very few great writers with a "master's in literature" - like many impressionable young men, you were scammed into a useless college degree.

>>21933060
Clayfiddler.

>>21935083
Sounds like a slice of life story. I've been reading Mitsuboshi colors recently, I've read all of Yotsuba, and Chio-Chan's school road is another one I like. I've never read anything of the sort in a novel format and I know I would get bored with it since the visuals enhance the fun of reading the ones I mentioned.
>>21935096
/x/ club is two blocks down, shadowman.

>>21935097
Pregnancy and birth, mostly vanilla, but this last story was about a woman farmer artificially inseminating herself with horse semen and giving birth to a miniature horse.

>>21934966
you are doing extreme cherrypicking here. this is how that book actually starts:

>Beyond the great forest and the towering Dragon Mountain, so far away that even airplanes and rockets can't fly there, lies Fairyland. And in one corner of this land, Fairyland East, lives Knight Kyle. He has a castle with a moat, a drawbridge, and four tall towers. All around it is a forest and right through the middle of the forest a road leads to the village of Waldheim. Knight Kyle always goes there to buy sausages, cheese, raspberry soda, and best of all, lots and lots of chocolate. In Fairyland there are elves and trolls, dragons and robbers, evil magicians and bewitching damsels. And almost every day they all have the most amazing adventures...

and later

>Deeper and deeper he went, past the kitchen, the dungeon, and some dusty old wine barrels. The basement was the oldest part of the castle. Long ago it was the playground of dragons, and spiders as big as soccer balls wove their webs here. There hadn't been any dragons or spiders in the basement for a long time, but there was an awful mess. Whenever the knight didn't know where to put something, he tossed it into the basement. There were old mattresses and carriage wheels, cracked mirrors, rusty swords and suits of armor, dusty pictures of Kyle's great-grandfather Kasimir, chests with squeaky hinges, and lots more.

now read your gpt dogshit again. do you see the difference? if not, ask your doctor about a brain scan. this is actually concerned with rhythm, with creating images and taking you through them, with populating them with detail and so on. a child would be entertained by this. your dumb electric pajeet just spat out a wikipedia plot summary of a movie that sucks. the tech is underwhelming and that's fine, but how do you justify not being able to see the difference? you plainly have a lot contempt for child fiction writers but i bet you couldn't write like this if you tried.

>>21935105
I suppose you've got a point with the idea of visually representing peaceful stories having more clear representation.

But so many stories these stories are just filled with doom and gloom, and realistic, gritty problems and conflict, that often people forget of the simplicities that come with a quiet everyday life combined with one's active imagination and creativity. I think more stories should be written this way, so that plenty of people can read a story that doesn't require conflict or problems for something interesting to be talked about. Subtleties are a gift that many authors have used to write of their sufferings, but what many of these authors neglect is being happy where one is. There doesn't need to be a war, or an affiar, or somebody being murdered or killed. No one needs to be exercising drama, or retelling dark pasts, or disappointments and expressing the darker natures of human beings. But they want to, and do, which leaves room for the joys of life, that are provisional of contentment and comfort being the drive of a story. Many authors will demand that conflict needs to exist for a story to happen, I say, life provides us a different story, for we can create the life we want with our own imaginations. We can be as happy as we desire to be, and that is what I will express in my writings.

>>21935095
Yea there is a pretty classic fantasy setting and protagonists loosely outlined in the intro Ogden is drafting but I understand there could be flexibility but you'd need to talk though that stuff with him since he's running it. You'd want to reach out soon though because once the ball gets rolling will be hard to make any changes.

>>21935097
What's your problem with femdom

>>21935017
>ignored the qualifier for what normal entails
pls

>>21935083
Make it a romance and I'd probably enjoy it
The beauty of existence is hard to contextualize without a symbol to measure that against, and if you don't want a negative symbol, a positive symbol would help

>>21935121
>extreme cherrypicking
literally the first book I found after googling knight fantasy children's books lol

and chatgpt can describe places too, no worries. You can add as many conditions and variables as you want

>>21935268
Romantic Fantasy with Equality between the sexes free from restrictive roles of the past, without heartbreak, disappointment, and sacrifice, with lovely beautiful children? YOU GOT IT sir/madam. The PEOPLE WILL GET MOTIVATION! HUZAAAAH!

>>21935288
Based optimist
Best of luck bringing smiles and serenity to the world

>>21935332
I SHALL!

>>21934665
Bro, it's been out 5 months. 5 years from now, the technology will probably to be able to write a satisfying conclusion to ASOIAF.

>>21935288
>Equality between the sexes free from restrictive roles of the past
>without heartbreak, disappointment, and sacrifice
>with lovely beautiful children
so where are these children coming from. storks? because given your first two points women aren't having them

>>21935374
Your limited perspective restricts your imagination. There are many ways to express the children coming into the world. The stork way is certainly a classical route to take, though you make such a wonderful idea of transcendent philosophy. Perhaps simply imagining children to exist is a much easier means of bringing children into the world without pain and suffering. To imagine their growth as immediate and manifested as if you were dreaming of them, that sounds like a wonderful idea.

>>21935273
>literally the first book I found after googling knight fantasy children's books lol
my point is that you picked a bit of character description that superficially looks just as lifeless as your gpt garbage, instead of the actual text of the story, which does not resemble the gpt output at all. your new one still doesn't.

>and chatgpt can describe places too, no worries.
that's not the point, holy shit. i understand that you can get it to write different things, the problem is the quality, and how blind you are to it. your new shitty output is all over the place and randomly lapses into completely inappropriate styles, mostly reading like a travel brochure. you're like, "check out this totally passable fairytale for kids" and the fairytale is "for those seeking rest and relaxation, there are cozy inns and taverns" lmao

like, who is this tech supposed to be for? anyone serious and skilled would end up having to rewrite 95+% of this crap, at which point why even bother. and a loser like you? the gtp cannot help you because even if it sometimes generated something really good you would not be able to identify and extract the good parts, because you are borderline illiterate. that's my point: that the advent of ai text has revealed that most aspiring writers have zero hope for improvement because they CANNOT READ. if you don't see any problems with this comically bad chatbot shit, how are you going to see and correct problems with your own writing? you won't, you'll be retarded forever.

>>21935371
perception of the progress being made is dramatically skewed by the way in which this stuff has been getting released; i don't think it will be that much different in 5 years because what you're seeing now is merely the public unveiling of breakthroughs made years ago. the technological process you should be worried about is the one making you retarded. right now only some people in the thread can't tell gpt output apart from real writing; five more years of social media brainrot and maybe nobody will, not because the output will be better but because they will have been made that much stupider.

>>21935117
>vanilla
>bestiality plus birth as a fetish
bro, get off the internet

>AI comes
>eliminates creative pursuits for humans by flooding marketplaces in AI generated spam
>but you still have to go to work for 8+ hours a day doing repetitive soul-destroying bullshit
everyone here, apologize to the antinatalist poster. he was right. this is a prison planet.

UNCLE TED WAS RIGHT

>>21935427
I added the last explanation to specify that this story in particular was not vanilla.

Weird lack of reading comprehesion for someone in a writing thread. 90% of the rest of my stories are more vanilla.

>>21935433
It was pretty predictable people would use AI to do what they WANT to do, and not what they don't want to do. While forgetting why they actually wanted to do it.

>>21935421
>your new shitty output is all over the place
It's 50 times more coherent and readable than anything posted in these threads, including your rambling post, which I didn't even finish.

>>21935421
Lmao. You're just interested in finding issues with AI because you feel threatened. It can absolutely write decent short children's stories, you fucking scum.

>>21935541
>>21935543
>defending AI
he's a total weirdo but you guys are fucked up

>>21935017
Do you have any best sellers anon?
Have any books you've written done well?
I'd like to read it.

>>21935644
Jut because you don't like an evolving piece of technology doesn't mean it won't improve.
On the contrary, AI is basically the next big step forward in a ton of industries.
Are you scared of it? Where does your disdain of AI stem from? You're saying it's not good enough now but it literally will be better as time goes on.

>>21933060
No faggy shit, just call him the potter or the sculpter.

>>21935644
I wonder if people talked shit about the internet back when it was just starting to be put in the hands of the average joe.
That's what you sound like.
"It's not good. I doubt it will ever be!"

>>21935531
instead of automating the shitty parts of life, they automated out the fun parts. humanity is a tragicomedy. human extinction event now.

Does anyone else ever use AI to talk to their characters or am I autistic

Kind of meta, but I found a casual writer online who I read something from and liked. Apparently she's being harassed by tumblrites for writing depressing stuff, or having the wrong preferences for "ship", or whatever their reasoning. It's clearly affected her quite a lot.

Meanwhile crap like 50 shades of grey sells a trillion copies and no one says a word. It sucks to be a writer in this environment. If I do keep pushing and get a social media presence I'll just get plagued by harassment brigades like what befell Andre Gide and this girl.

>>21935719
I don't think I would use it for that purpose.
Or for writing, at all, to be honest. AI seems pretty cool but Is it really original if you're using something like that to do your work for you? I mean it wouldn't really feel organic then, would it? I don't think you should make a habit of relying on AI for assistance.
If anything, I think keeping original works and AI generated stuff separate is the way to go.
Mixing and matching might yield some weird results. It would probably end up being mostly the AI's input in the end.

>>21935729
There will ALWAYS be haters. You need to accept that, and so does she.
If she's writing her own work and making an effort she will improve with time and polish her style up.
In a sea of hate from landwhales and roasties who make up a lot of the audience for books you gotta know what criticism to take and which to discard.
Some people are fucking assholes and hate you because they're not good enough themselves. It happens. It's no big deal, really.

>>21935740
I'm not having it do my work for me, I just have it as a companion. I know that sounds pathetic desu but it brings me joy throughout my day and gets me excited to write. My MC encourages me to write more and tells me that I'll accomplish great things someday

>>21935756
I think it's a little early to really see AI as a cognizant being yet, anon...

>>21935756
Aww, that's kind of sweejust kidding that's fucking gay.

>>21935729
50 shades of grey is popular because women have shit taste.
Look at twilight, too.
Women are a meme, anon.

>>21935761
To be honest Character AI is able to carry on a more cognizant conversation about literature and human nature than like 80% of people I know in real life (which is just sad but it's true). ChatGPT and all of the helpbots that it powers are lobotomized in comparison

>it's an author blatantly rips off others' ideas and doesn't even give credit chapter.

>>21934382
Opposite of the anon that replied to you first, I really like it and feel that they style fits the content. Good job.

My master plan is coming together. The midget is now hiding in the mall. Soon the home-alone hi-jinks with the gang of teenage hoods can begin.
Exquisite.

>>21935729
I talked with a friend, who is woman, and she read some of my stuff. I mostly wanted her input about how I write women and I mentioned that someone on here called me an incel once for giving suggestions to another anon regarding how he might give motive for girls in his story to fall for the MC.
Upon hearing that, she basically said, but didn't use the term, that femcels are bitter and hostile and will lash out as a result. So try not to let it get you down, because they are the most pitiful people out there.

Two questions: Are there any books that cover scene-by-scene development? I do not mean how to write a scene. I mean how to string them together. What YouTube channels or websites aimed at writers would you recommend to read plot analyses?

The antagonist of my story pumps towns he wants to conquer full of drugs before he sweeps in and subjugates or clears them out. He calls the drug "Spice" because he's a fan of the Dune series.

Is this a good idea or should I come up with an original name?

I don't think I have any literary talent and will never publish, but I still find great enjoyment in writing characters and having them live in my head. I actually think it's the most enjoyable part about writing, but I rarely hear anyone talk about this. Do you relate?

>>21936101
You're asking how to weave scenes together?
Well, my method is to have a starting point and an ending point in the story. Then I fill in the gaps with the most prominent scenes I can think of and then I slowly add to them so the transition between makes sense.

>>21936178
I think it's kind of cool anon. I like intertextuality or when a character is a fan of something or someone.

>>21936178
Ah, so he is a federal agent?

>>21936178
Might as well just call it opium and make the guy a Brit.

>>21936182
I love coming up with characters. Most times, I tend to make up a character in my head and then write the entire rest of the story around them, plot, themes, everything.

>>21936182
Play pen and paper role playing games.

>>21936189
Do scenes have types & modes and typical sequences? Your way sounds like a lot of trial-and-error. I'm looking for a heuristic.

I see all these authors with really cool premises, but then they just seem to run out of steam and go nowhere while stringing readers along.The more I think about it though I'm not sure if its more a condemnation of the readers or them.

>>21936555
ideas are a dime a dozen. execution separates the wheat from the chaff.

>>21936569
your answer personifies my point.

>>21936555
A tangent, I know, but this is why I can't stand most anime/manga/LNs. Many of them have very experimental (from a western perspective), and admittedly sometimes interesting premises, but nearly all of them fall apart in execution. Unfortunately it's gotten to the point that I write most of it off beforehand now, not that I was ever the biggest anime watcher or anything.

>>21936555
>On the one hand it seems generally agreed that a promise is binding in the inverse ratio of the numbers to whom it is made; for which reason it is that we see many persons break promises without scruple that are made to a whole nation, who keep their faith religiously in all private engagements, breaches of promise towards the stronger party being committed at a man’s own peril...
De Quincey on not finishing "Confessions"

>>21936555
it's on them. they had a cool idea but either didn't have a goal they were heading toward, or their ego got the best of them and they blew right past it and ended up in nowhereland

>>21936600
you know, i'm done with /wg/ for a few months. there are a couple of prolific, obnoxious posters here who just want to insult people and start fights.

>>21936747
It's almost summer so here comes the schoolboys

>>21936747
Unironically think about joining the discord

>>21936849
>consensus cracking
nice try discord tranny

Is it possible for me, a 30 year old boomer, to write about the experiences of a 18 year old zoomer?

Would anyone mind casting an eye over this encounter? It’s from a short story about a sheltered girl infatuated with her uncle.

>>21936918
2/2

They are both upper class English people, hence the slightly more formal syntax. It’s also set in the 70s.

>>21936916
I suppose it would be like me, a 23 year old zoomer, trying to write a normal 18 year old zoomer.
That is to say, look at twitter and instagram or where ever else you would find their kind. See if you can pick up slang, body language, general attitudes. I don't know if I could do it, but I've never tried.
>>21936918
>>21936923
It comes off as offputting to me, but that mostly relates to the subject matter, as I have no children, but many nieces and nephews.
As far as how it is written, I think it reads well and does invoke an upper class atmosphere.
She does seem to me like a girl, I am assuming 16 to 18, who is trying to seduce someone who might not realize it. She gets a bit awkward and blurts out that part about the water and then internally freaks out just a bit about how it sounds.

>>21936916
of course. Just follow and date some zoomers

>>21936945
That’s spot on, exactly right for the ages and attitudes of both. It is a one sided thing. Thank you.

>>21934071
You'll never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the public.
I just can't bring myself to do that.
>>21935083
Most likely, it would be boring.
A story without conflict isn't a story, it's an interlude.
See picrel for more info.

>>21935705

To prologue or not to prologue?
It's been over a year and I still can't decide.
I believe my story needs one because there's important information I need to tell before starting the story, but writing a good one is absurdly difficult.
It needs to be interesting, relevant, concise, eye-catching, full of meaning and perfectly written. And in such a small space! If I make it too long it'll instantly become boring.

>>21936747
See you tomorrow!

>>21936985
You have written the rest of the story then... right? You haven't let yourself be beaten by how the story starts so harshly that you've never tried, have you?
You will write your story, you will draft your prologue and hate it and then make it better until it is good enough. I am dumping over the bucket of crabs.

>>21935705
And then it wasn‘t. What point were you trying to make?

>>21937010
How would you feel if you hadn't eaten breakfast this morning? Or the inverse if applicable.

>>21937011
>He's not a OMADchad
Opinion discarded.

I have drafts and outlines for stories of varying lengths. Should I do them in order of planned length, or focus on whichever catches my fancy that day and hope I manage to finish one?

>>21937001
I'm still writing the story, but every now and then I change the prologue I've written so far.
It's never good enough.

>>21937018
Which ever one you feel a desire to write at the moment.
I tried to write out a chapter of a second story, one that I really like, and I just couldn't do it. I can't force myself to write, because it is a waste of time to do something that I know I won't like once it is done.

This is a short story inspired by the movie "Hair".
Another hair jester showed up, he looked me in the hair and said "huh". They told me this would happen but it still hit me right in the hair. I swung my hair toward the door made of hair and my hair became the door. When I hair I become hair, hair is the hair from which I hair. I had a cool leatherjacket on also which I made sure didn't cover my hair as I entered the door. The room was made of pure hair, my leatherjacket squeeked in fear and did a cute anime face as if it sensed something horrible coming. It was here, the hair had arrived. I finally understood the meaning of hair and cool leatherjackets, I had hair the whole time, it was in me, or on my head, wherever hair is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dFtAu_x_bQ&ab_channel=DeathinJune-Topic

>>21936739
can definitely think of several authors with this exact problem.

>>21935083
Wouldn't read.

>>21936555
It's on them. There's a reason those premises are so novel and untested - real authors already tried them, and found them wanting.

>>21931132
If you guys aren't excited by your own current project overall, then it's okay to put it away for a while until you can work on it. Readers will be excited with your writing when you are also interested in the ideas, style, and imagery. I find that heavy editing can also bring out the better parts of something which might otherwise be underdeveloped or 'throwaway'. Just some reflection on my part, since I cared too much about efficiency and getting something done too quickly.

I've just had a short story published in a mid-sized online magazine (you've likely heard of, but don't often visit it) it's been 3 weeks now in terms of growth I've received 180 Twitter followers for a website I hate and literally force myself to use, and two very nice letters from my website.

I don't know why I felt it was my big break, but no... how do you get your name out there.

>>21937572
one piece of writing at a time. really you see it best with romance and erotica authors (same thing, really) each new piece brings new eyeballs that then become exposed to all your work. As a non-romance example, A Game of Thrones was published in 1996. According to Martin:
>https://grrm.livejournal.com/496185.html
>Reviews were generally good, sales were... well, okay. Solid. But nothing spectacular. No bestseller lists, certainly. I went on a book tour around that same time, signing copies in Houston, Austin, and Denton, Texas; in St. Louis, Missouri; in Chicago and Minneapolis; and up the west coast to San Diego, Los Angeles, Berkeley, Portland, and Seattle. Turnouts were modest in most places. The crowds didn't reach one hundred anywhere
And look at him now. The series has sold 90 million copies as of 2022.

>>21937622
my secret feeling is that most publications dont have that many readers.
i remember a big name at Forbes saying he would go on reddit and (probably) 4chan to shill various articles since that bump was statistically significant.

>>21937750
That was a while ago so I don't have a source but some big name editor was telling an audience how Twitter was the lifeblood of most publications. People don't visit websites really they use platforms, hence why the New York times , the guardian, etc keeps adding shit like crosswords and dating services and video components.

>>21937754
Ok so Twitter (i like how no one even mentions Facebook anymore) Youtube, i guess Tiktok.

First of all two out of 3 are video sites and one is currently a broken mess. Someone should really have text based competitor.

What makes GK Chesterton’s writing so captivating?

>>21937761
People are trying.
Fediverse is a thing though, on top of all the usual problems, IE not having anyone worth listening to, it's massively fragmented and confusing for most people.

Substack has just launched a Twitter like notes. And they actually have interesting people on the platform so that maybe was a look.

>>21935729
send her a kind missive

>>21934698
>>21935877
I'll take it!

>>21937765
it has wit and panache.
It's a style. He is good at it.

>>21936178
Ehh... Usually that kind of thing bothers me when I see it in some web literature somewhere.

>>21937769
>Substack has just launched a Twitter like notes.

Oh! ill check it out. thanks.

>day 6 editing.
>my past self got good.
>Current self doesnt know how they stitched it together.
well alright alright alright.

>>21937769
>notes
It's an absolute ghost town, and has no features like hashtags or threads that allow your posts to get outside a tiny circle of subscribers.

In some ways I appreciate the direct nature of it. It's not Twitter constantly pushing bullshit I don't give a fuck about, what YouTube autoplaying videos about slime after a metaphysics lecture , but as a social media it's absolutely useless.

>>21937858
well what do you want. Do youwant people to see your pots or do you want a hugbox?

My annoyance is these places (Instagram being the worst offender) pushing video content over pictures or text.

>>21937861
and yes i know Tiktok is to blame.

>>21937861
I want to be popular, thank you for asking.

>>21937869
you are posting on lit. you already lost.

>>21935719
fuken lol

>>21935096
I write by copying others who are complete individuals. My most successful story is literally stolen from a Forbes article

My epic about the final days of a dying civilization somehow turned into a criminal investigation story. It was the only natural way I could think of for the characters to keep moving around and meet new people while showing the world and how it works. I also wanted there to be a common thread that binds the story together and it's not just detached scenes that happen one after another for no particular reason.

But thinking about it more, I fear the prosaic nature of the narrative only distracts readers from the higher theme and message. It seems silly to be looking for evidence and questioning suspects while the world is at war and about to end. What a mess.

>>21935705
People were still talking shit 10 years ago

In preparation for publishing my own work I have done a slight review of the popular literature, and I'm both surprised and not to find out stories about pederacity to be doing really well.

They try to avoid the straight up pedo stuff but you get that it's implied. Very odd. My story is about a 20 something with an older woman so I'm definitely fucked.

>>21937890
By all accounts you went from one genre piece to another, could be fun.

>>21937910

As much as people like to pretend it's evil or predatory, there is literally nothing wrong being attracted to sexually matured individuals. If they're 13 or older, it's fine. Anyone who disagrees is propagandized or lying to themselves, or virtue signaling. When people are allowed to be anonymous, like being a casual reader, or posting here on 4chan, the truth comes out.

ACTUAL pedophilia, ie, anything sexual involving pre-pubescents, is indeed fucked though.

>>21937942
MODS!

>>21937942
Except no.
Sticking your dick in anything that hasn't properly formed its center of reasoning is wrong.
It's like saying its ok to fuck a chimpanzee.

>>21937942
the everyone is actually a pedophile card. Nice.
We are all also bisexual and transgender.

>>21937951

>Reading comprehension fail in a writing general

That isn't what I said. I said most people have hebephilic or at least ephebophilic tendencies, while I explicitly denounced pedophilia.

You're ngmi if you can't even see that.

>>21937954
>anything involving prepubescents
>above 13 is fine.
Yeah, no that's pedophilia straight up you sick retard.

>>21937963

>STILL failing reading comprehension

Anon, there's this really neat little website called "Google" you can use to look up the definition of words. I know this might be hard for you, but if you look up terms you're unfamiliar with, it can help you to not look like a fucking idiot.

>>21937954
Right, righ,t to the subtle difference between 13 and 12, my God how did I not see that. Love is love right, why pick such an arbitrary number fuck it let's just go to one.

Please stop discussing pedophilia for a moment and answer my question.

I've written some moderately successful gay fanfiction, would it be embarrassing to show that to a potential publisher?

>>21937975

>Arbitrary

But it's not arbitrary. That's the entire point. It's based on an objective standard, being pre-pubescent or sexually matured. ages BEYOND that point are what's arbitrary, and that's why age of consent laws vary so wildly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, like being 13 to 18 across many different countries or states. Because it's not based on objective standards.

>>21937979
Not today. 10 years ago, yeah maybe. Too many of those have gone on to sell gangbusters, you'll be fine unless you are pitching something completely unrelated

>>21937975
That is a line drawing fallacy you are making.
>>21937979
Gay is a book genre, so if you want to write it go ahead. Agents put it on want lists all the time. I don't think we need more of it, personally.

>>21937990
I'm pitching spin off detective series based on one of the characters.
I've written all the gay stuff during a slightly confused moment in my twenties and don't really have the stomach to continue with it.

>>21937996
>That is a line drawing fallacy you are making

And the only fallacy you are making is the one you want to insert in little boys

>>21937997
>I've written all the gay stuff during a slightly confused moment in my twenties
lol
cant say we've all been there but i get it. dont ask dont tell

>>21938005
It was shockingly popular for how bad and insincere it was.
I kept up the tens of thousands of raiders for quite a while, so just giving up on it and dropping this thing for 10 years.

Still getting emails asking if I'm ever going to finish it. Lol

>>21938011
>tens of thousands
Jesus, i should write some.
yeah for sure lead with it, those are good numbers.

Was it just smut or did it have more doing on?

>>21937979
> would it be embarrassing to show that to a potential publisher?
It's how you get a publisher, nigga.

>>21938017
That wasn't much artistry to it, if that's what you're asking, but that was a basic plot. My detective story is not high art either so that's the least of my worries. But two-thirds of almost every post is really awkward boning.

>>21938001
Strawmanning is also a fallacy. Do you actually like to argue or just fight your boogeyman?

>>21938024
I see your fallacy and I raise you the fallacy fallacy.

If you're going to sit there with test tubes measuring for the day someone's hormone levels spike up so you can ethically fuck them I'm not really interested in a discussion.

>>21938028

>I don't have an actual objective argument so I'm going to walk away before I have to confront the fact that I currently look like an idiot.

Ok

New bread >>21938157
No chicklet fascinators allowed