/lit/ - Literature

I quiet dislike his forced complexity. Trying too hard/10. He‘s the musical equivalent of people having to use unnecessarily big words to appear more sophisticated.

>>21915240
The Op is about his writings, not his music. But if you have trouble understanding Wagner's music, which has a major emphasis on clarification for the theatrical impression, then there's no hope you will ever understand Beethoven.

>>21915220
Wagner is the end goal in ridiculing Shitzsche.
>In his letter, Nietzsche noted that he had experienced much personal humiliation in the last few years, likely referring to Richard Wagner's devastating gossip to his inner circle that Nietzsche had "a small penis," "masturbated excessively," and "committed pederasty."

>>21915275
not an argument

>>21915220
Why do you Wagnerfags only post loaded questions with zero context or explanation? Argue your point, enlighten us what is musically esoteric/mystic about Wagner because I'm genuinely interested. Don't just create dumb threads with loaded questions (or walls of quotes) that offer zero potential to evolve into an interesting discussion.

wagnerschizo is the new guenonfag? its the same pattern

>>21915633
NTA but in short, he expands Schopenhauer's aesthetics of music into a historical and psychological dimension. This occurred when he synthesised his own philosophy with Schopenhauer's, but there was also the influence from the other direction that led to Wagner conceiving of music under a semi-Pietist mysticism.

I haven't read the Beethoven essay but I do know that it contains some major revisions of Schopenhauer's aesthetics. This is a good article on it:

www.the-wagnerian.com/2014/10/the-reinvention-of-genius-wagners.html

>>21915737
Thank you! I'll check the article, but is there any more comprehensive studies or books on this topic?

>>21915220
Nope, that would be Scriabin

>https://youtube.com/watch?v=AJ51_W9fyz0&pp=ygUNU2NyaWFiaW4gbGl2ZQ%3D%3D

>Scriabin was interested in Friedrich Nietzsche's Übermensch theory, and later became interested in theosophy. Both influenced his music and musical thought. During 1909–10 he lived in Brussels, becoming interested in Jean Delville's Theosophist philosophy and continuing his reading of Helena Blavatsky.

>Theosophist and composer Dane Rudhyar wrote that Scriabin was "the one great pioneer of the new music of a reborn Western civilization, the father of the future musician", and an antidote to "the Latin reactionaries and their apostle, Stravinsky" and the "rule-ordained" music of "Schoenberg's group." Scriabin developed his own very personal and abstract mysticism based on the role of the artist in relation to perception and life affirmation. His ideas on reality seem similar to Platonic and Aristotelian theory, though much less coherent. The main sources of his philosophy can be found in his numerous unpublished notebooks, in one of which he wrote "I am God". The notebooks contain complex and technical diagrams explaining his metaphysics. Scriabin also used poetry to express his philosophical notions, though arguably much of his philosophical thought was translated into music, the most recognizable example being the Ninth Sonata ("the Black Mass").

>https://youtube.com/watch?v=V4YSysUn-Bk&pp=ygUSU2NyaWFiaW4gbXlzdGVyaXVt

>His colour system, unlike most synesthetic experience, accords with the circle of fifths, which tends to prove it was mostly a conceptual system based on Sir Isaac Newton's Opticks.

>Scriabin did not, for his theory, recognize a difference between major and a minor tonality with the same tonic, such as C minor and C major. Indeed, influenced by theosophy, he developed his system of synesthesia toward what would have been a pioneering multimedia performance: his unrealized magnum opus Mysterium was to have been a weeklong performance including music, scent, dance, and light in the foothills of the Himalayas that was somehow to bring about the world's dissolution in bliss.

>>21916156
Scriabin was a mystic composer, but the fantasy is definitely not an example of that.

>>21915737
His philosophy of music is fundamentally at odds with Schopenhauer's, and Schopenhauer's hand annotated copy of The Ring exists and he was not impressed by Wagner overall

>inb4 Wagnerschizo writes ten paragraphs of cope that don't refute these two indisputable points
Read Schopenhauer

Wagner forever

>>21916091
The only scholars I've read who even mention the late Wagner's differences with Schopenhauer are Dieter Borchmeyer and Carl Dahlhaus, with the latter being more musicological in focus. Apart from them I can only say some good books on Wagner in general are The Quest for the Gesamtkunstwerk, Athena sings, Baudelaire's Richard Wagner et Tannhauser a Paris, Joyce and Wagner: A Study of Influence and of course Wagner's own writings.

Wagner is all I have left now that I was catfished and sucked on the penis by a man.

>>21916742
Why just Wagner?

>>21916364
>His philosophy of music is fundamentally at odds with Schopenhauer's,
Curious that you say this yet haven't read Wagner and don't know the fundamental points of his philosophy.

>The Ring […] was not what the whole world usually took it to be – a Germanic heroic epic
based on the philosophy of Schopenhauer […] for me it is, firstly, a revival of Greek tragedy;
secondly a return to mythical sources; and thirdly moralistic drama in the manner both of
Schiller and Brecht.

I am going to the opera to watch Parisfal from him, I hope it will be good

>The Ring […] was not what the whole world usually took it to be – a Germanic heroic epic based on the philosophy of Schopenhauer […] for me it is, firstly, a revival of Greek tragedy; secondly a return to mythical sources; and thirdly moralistic drama in the manner both of Schiller and Brecht.

>>21916156
Scriabin was a tell not show guy in terms of mysticism. He loved to claim it, but Wagner suffused his works with it in an incomparable way. German thoroughness and autism is just something else..

>>21917284
Cope! You will never be a Scriabinchad!
> https://youtube.com/watch?v=pPvfq5H8PgQ&pp=ygUQU2NyYWJpbiBldHVkZSA2NQ%3D%3D

>>21917226

>>21916742
Uh…what?