/lit/ - Literature

>>21909714
Nothing he said makes any sense whatsoever. Its actually astonishing how he can write so much and say so little, perpetually contradict himself, yet be so vague and imprecise that youre not even sure which of several ways the contradiction is occurring

>>21909721
His faggot fans try to counter this by saying he was “intentionally being ironic and obfuscating what he really meant….”

Yup, sounds like a retarded faggot

>>21909714
A horse is strong.
A horse can kill a man.
The horse was being beaten senselessly.
It made no sense.
It was weak.
Just for a moment.
He was sorry for it, but knew it was damned to be subservient.
You are subject to this.
You can be strong, but you’ll always be a bitch.
It’s all absurd.
Good luck, faggot.

As a romantic I find the idea of Neitzsche having a breakdown over a horse being whipped to be very powerful
Unfortunately it is fake from what I understand

>>21909737
Nietzsche hated the romantics you fucking retard

>>21909721
if the question of eternal recurrence doesn't move you in some way, you're an npc. it really is a great litmus test to determine if people can think abstractly or not

>>21909746
Well thanks, I didn't know that
Not really sure what that has to do with my post

>>21909760
He doesnt say anything intelligible about it.

>>21909721
He was utterly plagued by demons. Antichrist is not far off.
>>21909714
By realising that Nietzsche is so wrong that opposite of what he thought is the Truth. Christ is the only True Superman.

>>21909721
Welcome to 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999% of philosophy.

>>21909714
>Doesn't understand the concept of the will to power and thinks it's just might makes right
>believing in the horse story that was fabricated in a tabloid many years later after it supposedly happened
>not actually reading any of his works or having any understanding of it yet having the need to try to shit on it
>copypasta r*ddit memes used for insult rather than coming up with something on your own

He says to philosophize with a hammer, but for you, I think you need a jackhammer.

>>21909778
No he is uniquely bad. Not even those obscurantist 20th c frenchmen are as bad as him

>>21909781
This poster will not explain a single one of his ideas, I guarantee it

>>21909781
>”BUH BUH BUH YOJ NEVER READ IT!!!!!!!!”
>*posts tranime cringe to go along with it*

Shut the fuck up you dumb bitch

>>21909772
"the question of"
referring to the one he himself posed
i understand now why you would find Nietzsche unintelligible

>>21909792
You haven't explained any of your critiques beyond
>"This guy sucks because I said so"
You are operating at peak fag levels right now anon.
>>21909811
>Berserk is tranime
>Hates Nietzsche
>Yet seems to enjoy Ernst Junger, the living embodiment of Nietzscheian concepts put into action
bruh

>>21909822
I've read the passage youre talking about, you're free to say what you think he says about the idea that is worth anything (you will not do this)
>>21909827
Oh look at that a Nietzsche poster refusing to explain any of his ideas. Never seen that before

>>21909835
>Oh look at that a Nietzsche poster refusing to explain any of his ideas. Never seen that before
>makes the initial claim that Nietzsche sucks
>doesn't elaborate or actually say why
>called out
>starts shit flinging by making up strawman to knock down, of which the original meaning of the shitposting had nothing to do with

Anon...

>>21909846
Explain what the will to power means in precise terms

>>21909835
>nothing he says makes sense
>this does
>it's not intelligible
>yes it is
>he has no ideas of value (but please explain them to me)
no, fucktard, you explain what part you didn't understand. the question of eternal recurrence. it's a thought experiment. are you able to have empathy for your future self? if you have to do everything again the exact same way without anything new whatsoever, would having that knowledge affect your actions in the present or future? why or why not?

>>21909827
>>21909781
I can’t believe you made me go into the basement to find the fucking book but here it is you gay faggot

>What is good? — All that heightens the feeling of power, the will to power, power itself in man. What is bad? — All that proceeds from weakness. What is happiness? — The feeling that power increases — that a resistance is overcome.
>The weak and ill-constituted shall perish: first principle of our philanthropy. And one shall help them to do so.

From aphorism 2, The Anti-Christ. The preceding paragraph he talks about how. Here’s a freebie: if you’re going to pretend to be a macho badass nietzschean bodybuilder sociopath online you should probably try reading the fucking books

>>21909864
It's a completely meaningless thought experiment because you wouldnt remember doing it before so it makes zero difference if it happens once or infinite number of times. Its not even "you" in any meaningful sense

>>21909853
>Explain Will to power
Life force that governs and organizes the universe. You can easily argue that it is Nietzsche's concept of the Logos. Everything is ordered by it including life itself, especially life itself. An organism does not adapt in order to better survive but rather to become stronger in a never ending self improvement/strengthening in order to overcome higher and higher struggles.

>in precise terms
Unironic book cope. Live life in order to figure it out yourself but unironically. This is what anon's like you don't get. One of Nietzsche's "critiques" is that he does not have a detailed system. The reason for that is because when you are a yes sayer to life, a morality will manifest itself among the people who embrace life just like how a hierarchy will naturally manifest. Unironically put down your book and develop the courage to actually live life.

>>21909879
You are a moron. The memory of the events has no relevance. The weight of this idea too great for you to consider, so you immediately discard it.
>empathy for your future self
take some time and consider what that means and why it could be important

>>21909874
Now try to define what he means by "power" and you'll finally realize that what he says is extremely wise and is not some 14 year old ramblings that you were probably taught by somebody else who would be the type of person Nietzsche would call a little bitch.

>>21909883
>An organism does not adapt in order to better survive but rather to become stronger in a never ending self improvement/strengthening in order to overcome higher and higher struggles.
No it doesnt. It adapts to its environment so that it can reproduce, or rather those which happen to do so are the ones who will pass on their genes.

You didnt actually explain what it is. Is it the laws of physics? Is it the tendency for local reversals of entropy creating complexity?

>One of Nietzsche's "critiques" is that he does not have a detailed system.
Yeah because its utterly incoherent and wrong about everything

>>21909893
Then explain the meaning you boring faggot

>>21909903
>being this fucking obtuse
I just gave you an explanation and you just countered it with a "nuh uh".

>>21909908
no faggot, explain what you're not understanding.

>>21909916
You made a vague series of statements, one of which was patently false(the one about organisms) and the others were too vague to mean anything "hurr durr it's like the logos"

>>21909924
What does the thought experiment mean to you? Why do you find it interesting? I just told you I find it meaningless and why and you said I'm not getting it, so explain what getting it means

>>21909908
Not him but the idea of eternal recurrence comes from the notion that in a static universe (or with a more modern understanding of the universe, one that is cyclical) eventually all combinations of atoms will have been made with an infinite amount of time to happen which would then imply that the atoms would just keep forming into different combinations that they have already been in, over and over again. This implies that if you are alive now, then eventually over a very very very very very very long period of time, everything will assemble itself in the same exact way it was before which would finally imply that you would be alive again, just as you were alive before; living the same life, over and over again.

The "heaviness" of this then would be that you would essentially be doomed to relive this life over and over again for an infinite amount of time. Nietzsche's solution to this would be to embrace your life and life in general as much as possible so that each "cycle" is a journey through heaven rather than hell. Amor Fati and all of that.

>>21909926
How is it false?

>>21909811
So because you've read 500 pages out of what? 3000-4000 pages of Nietzches work you think you understand him?

The fact you took a picture of legit 3 books with two of them being these tiny ass 120pg books is fucking hilarious

People only even like this faggot due to his tangential relationship to Hitler and Nazism. Literally have never seen a non-white person discuss Nietzsche ever and most of the guys who do are weird with speech impediments.

>>21909926
>hurr durr it's like the logos
You can say that about literally everything.

>>21909932
>The "heaviness" of this then would be that you would essentially be doomed to relive this life over and over again for an infinite amount of time
Ok but it wouldn't be actually you and the future you wouldnt remember the past ones so who cares
>>21909935
>>21909903
>No it doesnt. It adapts to its environment so that it can reproduce, or rather those which happen to do so are the ones who will pass on their genes.

>>21909940
Actual slave morality take right here. Also:
>Nietzsche == Nazism
Holy Jesus you can't be serious. You would have better luck calling him a Christian instead of a Nazi.

>>21909940
That's obviously not true. Nazis if anything dislike his philosemitism. He has tons of fans from all over the political spectrum

>>21909945
It would 100% be you and the heaviness is that you are doomed to repeat your life over and over again forever, so obviously living a shitty life would mean you would live a shitty life forever.
>Doesn't understand that natural selection and Darwinism is just a theory and that Will to Power is a competing theory

>>21909956
There are animals who evolved back into plant like creatures that do barely anything. How is that an ever greater will to power or whatever the fuck the concept even is

As for it being you, it seems like a meaningless semantic question. You are localized both in space and time the way I see it, so it's not really you. The concept of personal identity isnt even very meaningful in the first place being as you are constantly changing

>>21909929
>>21909945
You really are a fucking retard. The litmus test has once again proven itself.

This will be the the third time I post it, "empathy for your future self". Assume eternal recurrence is real. You have the knowledge that eternal recurrence is real right now. It is completely irrelevant that you will forget you have this knowledge when the cycle begins again. Turn your autism off for one fucking minute and think about this. Do you want a future iteration of you to relive all the shitty moments of your life over again? And again? And again? Or are you going to try and give that future iteration of you as many happy moments as you possibly can?

>>21909968
>Do you want a future iteration of you to relive all the shitty moments of your life over agai
Why would I give a shit. I don't consider it me. He equation is literally the same either way anyway, you try and make your life the best you can regardless.

>>21909978
>but it's not me
If you lack empathy for your own future self why should I believe you have any for anyone else.
>why would I give shit
Oh, you don't.

Eternal recurrence can lead to the why, the reason why you should make your life the best you can. But, unfortunately for you, in order to genuinely think about it you have to not be a complete retard

>>21910009
It makes literally no difference whether it happens once or infinitely you tremendous retard. It just makes you have sad little scared feelings so you think its meaningful but it isnt. It's a pointless concept

>>21910019
choose to think it does make a difference because you desire it. can you conceptualize that? are you even able to perform abstract thinking?
sad, scared feelings but also happy, triumphant feelings. you utter moron. you absolute buffoon. you have proven more times than necessary that you have understood nothing Nietzsche ever said

>>21910041
I can perform the abstract thought necessary to realize that a copy of me in the future is not me, that "me" is not even a meaningful concept other than the arbitrary series of conscious moments tied together in one body.

>>21910050
we’re going in circles. good night.

>>21909940
>uhm I’ve never seen a PoC like Nietzsche…that’s so problematic..
You are the botched. Kys

>>21910071
Make sure to make your night as good as possible so that you can relive it forever faggot

>>21909726
>fans
I wish it was less apparent that this board has been overrun by a bunch of drooling zoomers who are typically use to console and cartoon wars. They come here and bring their drivel to philosophy, thinking they understand it based off shallow readings and Wikipedia skimming. Treating lit and philosophy like it’s another one of your retarded consumerist collections is an irrefutable sign you have been filtered terribly.

>>21910102
Not an argument as to why Nietzsche doesn't suck

>>21909714
Christcucks and midwits still seething at Nietzsche I see. By the way the horse story is fake.

>>21910050
What makes the you now more than a series of reactions in the body now; is you now and the you that was writing your post different, and the you that began reading this post and finished reading it different? Why do you do anything, and what is the you that you continue to create? Is it related to the you that was, and will be?

What is arbitrary about the formation of consciousness, and the will for propagation and life?

>>21910244
>What makes the you now more than a series of reactions in the body now;
Nothing. That's what it is
> is you now and the you that was writing your post different, and the you that began reading this post and finished reading it different?
Yes, different but similar
>Why do you do anything
Biology and environment and the basic structure of reality
>and what is the you that you continue to create?
I'm not really creating it per se. I am its creation momentarily but the causal chain originates outside me
> Is it related to the you that was, and will be?
Yes though causation, similarity
>What is arbitrary about the formation of consciousness, and the will for propagation and life?
I mean that there is nothing metaphysically linking one moment to the next. One day to the next. They're just strung along on the same bits of reality

>>182888926

>>21909731
>You can be strong, but you’ll always be a bitch.
Go outside and try to break the law or fuck with people, see what not being a bitch gets you

>>21909893
It's literally irrelevant you pseud, it may as well not happen

How on earth do so many people confidently talk about Nietzsche when all they took from his writing is "big bodybuilders can do what they like"? You need to actually read his books.

>>21909774
Why are christtards still seething about Nietzsche? Are you mad that he may have had a point,and that much of your agitprop has lost its meaning?

>>21909714
He's interesting.
Wonder why he thought highly of Dostoevsky.

>>21909714
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RlrPV3cHag

>>21909883
>Life force that governs and organizes the universe. You can easily argue that it is Nietzsche's concept of the Logos. Everything is ordered by it including life itself, especially life itself. An organism does not adapt in order to better survive but rather to become stronger in a never ending self improvement/strengthening in order to overcome higher and higher struggles.
NTA but that's literally a tautology.

>>21909714
"And where there is sacrifice and service and love-glances, there also is the will to be master. By by-ways doth the weaker then slink into the fortress, and into the heart of the mightier one—and there stealeth power."

>>21909916
You are talking to a weak man. One who needs to follow someone's detailed system. I'm still not sure if this is due to cognitive limitations, like this post suggests >>21909945
>who cares you don't remember
kek dude you are literally incapable of complex abstract thought. you don't have the ability to care, which is evident after this thread.

Or it could be psychological, their weakness is of character and they're too scared of actual freedom thus the need to defer to others' systems, for protection. Protection from thinking, from uncertainty freedom brings, from anxiety....
Or perhaps yet this anxiety is the product of an insufficient mind subjected to too much freedom/individuality. Any thoughts on this?

>>21910158
No, but it's an argument as to why anything coming out of your mouth is a-priori worthless.

>>21909737
It's literally a scene from Crime & Punishment.

>>21909968
Doesn't the very nature of eternal occurrence mean that it literally doesn't matter because sometime somewhere there's going to be a version of you where you adopt that attitude, regardless of your current feelings? And one where you dive even deeper into the misery? I literally don't get the point, it's complete fucking nonsense.

>>21909968
>Do you want a future iteration of you to relive all the shitty moments of your life over again? And again? And again? Or are you going to try and give that future iteration of you as many happy moments as you possibly can?
That's just an extremely narrow way of perceiving the issue. What is "I"? All the neurophysiology scientific bugmen talk of qualia and consciousness and mirror neurons and P-zombies aside, what does constitute the boundary of the self extended into the eternal recurrence? Where does "me" end and "he" begins? How much transformation can occur before future "me" stops being "me" and becomes "him"? Did I change enough from some time before to become different from "he" that came before "me", or is it all the same one? Do "we" differ in our perception of the eternally recurrent life as a anticipated or recollected one, or we all just eternally live through it? Does any actual transformation or change occur through this hypothetical eternity, or we would be forever exactly who we are? What is that essence of "us" that makes "me" now and "me" in one billion years of recurrence the same? If this essence exists and shared between "us", who else shares it? Does "other" even exist in this experiment, or we all are infinite recurrences of one life? Does that mean that we've just rephrased the categorical fucking imperative in a fancier way?

All this shit can be answered differently, and there is fundamentally nothing that makes the anon that says "I don't care they are different people" wrong, even if it's just one interpretation. if anything, you are failing the litmus test by failing to even conceive an actually different perspective.

>Wanting to become strong and become a master over the world/your surrondings is incompatible with gentleness and not engaging in pointless cruelty

>>21909714

>>21910955
Yes. Only the cruel can lord themselves over others.

>>21910588
He really admired Dostoyevsky’s psychological insight. He called him “the only psychologist from whom I had anything to learn.” He probably had other reasons for liking him even though they had very different ideas

>half-literate anon gets the bright idea to troll /lit/
>succeeds in getting replies
>still half-literate
>is trolled more savagely than any of his own limp attempts
>cannot comprehend any of it because he is half-literate
You sure showed them, OP! They are no match for your ineptitude.

>>21909714
>he doesn't know his spirit left his body and entered Hitler's body as a baby

>>21909940
>Literally have never seen a non-white person discuss Nietzsche ever

That's a positive.

>>21909940
Come to think of it I don't think I've seen a non-white discuss philosophy at all.

>>21909942
No you can't

>>21910432
Exactly his point, but the horse story is a myth anyway

>>21910629
How exactly?

>>21911638
I've never seen a non-white person.

>>21909714
Who cares about Shitzsche to begin with.

>>21912859
You, apparently

He was a prophet more than he was a philosopher. But of course you can't call someone a prophet, even if they rightly are, anymore.

>>21909714
>>21909774
>He was utterly plagued by demons.
>>21909721
>>21909746
You all realize that the majority of his bullshit philosophy, outside of a handful of bits (which are common sense anyways), came about due to emotional repression over his father's death. If the guy had taken a breath, stop acting so tight, and gotten a girlfriend his life would have been fine.

I swear these non spiritual philosophers bring it on themselves.

>>21912890
>Nietzsche as a non-spiritual philosopher
Nice selfie there in your picrel

>>21909714
It's basically a Jataka tale. As Nietzsche said, he is the European Buddha, and also Dionysus the Crucified.

>>21909714
>WHAT DOESN'T KILL YOU MAKES YOU STRO-
>WHAT??? YOU CAN'T JUST TURN THE OTHER CHEEK, THAT'S HECKIN' SLAVE MORALITY BECAUSE... BECAUSE IT IS!

>>21909774
>plagued by demons
A daemon is something very close to what you'd call a guardian angel so that's not as bad as you want it to sound.

>>21910823
Dilate.

>>21909714
>”Is that a horse…. Being whipped?? (A common occurrence literally everyday all over the world)
>”AHHHHHHHHH IM INSANE AND MY SISTER NEEDS TO CLEAN MY DIAPERS!!!!!”

never happened
https://www.faena.com/aleph/the-true-story-of-the-turin-horse-or-nietzsches-horse

first mention that he went insane after seeing a horse being whipped was 11 years after the fact, and was popularized in some german tabloid, but because it fits so well everybody suddenly believed it.

>>21909714
>same guy starting Nietzsche thread #50569 where he either pretends to be retarded or worse, actually is, so people who bothered to read can correct him time and time again while other brainless rejects swarm in to nod their empty heads in agreement
buddy, i think you just need some real friends at this point

>>21909714
If your arguments relies on posting wojaks and changing the words the author actually wrote you don't have much of an argument.

>>21913043
So what? If enough people believe it we can make it the truth. I for one would gladly erase Nietzsche from the human record.

how do so many people in this thread not understand eternal recurrence
>but it's not me
>but when does he become me
>what even is me hurr
>durr why should I care
have you niggers read zarathustra or anything he wrote at all? eternity is a woman he loves and wants to marry. recurrence is the wedding ring.
>but it doesn't matter because it isn't me heehaw
and he wants to have children

>>21912990
>turning the other cheek was in reference to Christians ignoring and suppressing their own will in favor of a world beyond after this life free of pain, hence why instead of fulfilling their impulses and/or developing them, they chose to ignore them in a nihilistic and ascetic sort of way which is textbook "slave morality" i.e.:
>rather than shape yourself to overcome obstacles within the world
>you attempt to reframe the world itself to justify your own weak actions and vilify the actions of the strong

Or you can just keep posting soijak shit all day, whatever.

>>21909932
Am I a brainlet if I didn't get that out of the paragraph or two I looked up into a notes site?

>>21909721
fpbp

>>21909760
>if the question of eternal recurrence doesn't move you in some way, you're an npc.
Yeah, eternal recurrence, that's like real deep bro. You're a smart cookie ain't ya?

>>21909714
Greatest writer who ever lived. He was simply never meant to be understood by most of you shitters.

>>21914271
Oh, and to add, one crucial thing about Nietzsche is that his prose alone is a midwit filter. Sub-130 shitters won't get his full meaning in most passages and will need secondary to explain it to them, which will probably be botched in the first place.

>>21914193
>Nietzsche's schizo aphorisms conveniently fit my incredibly narrow reframings to not be contradictory because...they just do ok!?!?!?

>>21910102
usually im for gatekeeping, but in this case id rather see pseudo intellectuals like you cope.

>>21914228
Nietzsche's ideas developed over the course of his writings with many things developing in detail and some outright changing into different things. The Eternal Recurrence is most commonly seen in modern times as a "thought experiment" that Nietzsche came up with. In reality, ER was viewed by Nietzsche not only as a very real thing that can exist (keeping in mind the concept of the universe circa late 1800's where they believed it was eternal and static) and also as a religious idea/ideal, just like with the Ubermensch being Nietzsche's "what would Jesus do" where you weren't ever supposed to actually become the Ubermensch but instead view it as a never ending goal to reach higher and higher for mankind with each man and generation shooting his shot (throwing his spear or shooting his bow as the analogy goes) to constantly better mankind and society perpetually.

One thing you learn very quickly when reading Nietzsche for yourself is how crude and flat out bullshit a lot of his ideas are typically "interpreted" in modern times and also how in depth a lot of his shit is, with a lot of double/triple meanings and concepts that change over time due to him developing them more over his writings. This, combined with the fact that he doesn't offer a "doctrine" or ideology of "do this to be good, don't do this so you wont be bad" type of shit but instead preaches that by living and experiencing life and interacting with the world naturally, confronting it heroically is the true foundation for knowledge, development and even things like morality itself. - It may be very difficult to wrap your head around all of that if you never really read Nietzsche because he pretty much goes against virtually all of modern philosophy (hence the hate). Just remember that it is through (You) and the betterment and constant overcoming of your own struggles do you gain true knowledge and wisdom, not by reading some nerd book cope.

To Nietzsche, reading shit like philosophy done properly is to read it to gain insights and to challenge oneself, not to go looking for someone else to tell you what to do or believe in. If you are going to let someone tell you how to live and learn, let it be Nietzsche, because unlike most philosophers and ideological assholes, he teaches you to philosophize not with reading and writing, but instead with a hammer.

Off topic poem I wrote months ago for shits and giggles that I think fits in with the feels.

>>21909760
>Eternal recurrence
>Think about all the babies being perpetually aborted for eternity.
Man it feels good to be born in a privileged setting even if I am a bit autistic

>>21912890
>emotional repression over his father's death.
This is so common with Nietzsche especially, but this tendency even in people nominally concerned with 'truth' to reduce all thought to psychological misfortune is so reductive to any meaningful discussion. Freud has wreaked so much havoc; now anybody can skim a Wikipedia page for troubles in someone's life and disregard everything they ever thought or said because of it.

>>21914193
>"Sonic Riders Based Aesthetic.gif"
long post but I feel pretty good about ignoring it.

>>21909714
>”AHHHHHHHHH IM INSANE AND MY SISTER NEEDS TO CLEAN MY DIAPERS!!!!!”
kek

>>>21912990
>>turning the other cheek was in reference to Christians ignoring and suppressing their own will in favor of a world beyond after this life free of pain, hence why instead of fulfilling their impulses and/or developing them, they chose to ignore them in a nihilistic and ascetic sort of way which is textbook "slave morality" i.e.:
>>rather than shape yourself to overcome obstacles within the world
>>you attempt to reframe the world itself to justify your own weak actions and vilify the actions of the strong
>
>Or you can just keep posting soijak shit all day, whatever.

>>21912863
>no u

>>21914193
>posts le hecking Bing Bing Wahoo on /lit/ and expects to be treated seriously

>>21909968
The "empathy for your future self" is a useless proxy. Empathy only lets you feel what someone else feels, so if you don't care or see it as serving a greater good when you experience unhappiness you also wouldn't care about it happening to your future self.
Let me illustrate with an example. Let's say someone named Dudley Do Right is morally opposed to drugs. Then imagine Dick Dastardly tries to sway him by stating, "if you don't experience the pleasure of taking drugs, your little brother Timmy will follow your example and also lose out on this pleasure." Would this sway Dudley? He should have empathy for little Timmy right? But it doesn't sway Dudley because he still believes he is doing the right thing, so he would want Timmy to also not do drugs precisely because of his empathy
This shows why eternal recurrance is useless as life advice. If you would want to do something, you would also want your future self to do it for the very same reason you wanted to do it.

>>21909714
but neech never said "the week should fear the strong"
that's a sam hyde meme from less than a decade ago

>>21910432
thats exactly his point you dumb nigger retard

>>21912890
>If the guy had taken a breath, stop acting so tight, and gotten a girlfriend his life would have been fine.
literally me