/lit/ - Literature

to anons who actually know Greek, Hackett or Jowett for Plato?

>>21834205
>and since the language changed so little, you can just include modern Persian literature as well.
Isn't that partly because modern Persian is pretty diglossic?

>>21834558
Jowett for English, La Rouchefoucauld for French.

Listen to me because I am knowledgeable of these things. People who call Jowett “archaic” are zoomer nerds with the attention span of a gnat who don’t appreciate Plato anyways.

>>21834558
I shill this man whenever I can because he is underrated as a translator.

Finished my textbook today. Feels good. I read the first chapter of the Gospel of John last night easily and I feel like all that hard work has paid off finally. If you are suffering through Latin just keep going man. It feels so good when there's basically nothing left to memorize except some weird uses of the subjunctive.

>>21835229
what textbook? all i have is wheelock's latin i bought years ago but is apparently shit(?)

>>21835265
>inb4 massive flame war about the funny orange book

>>21835283
Isn't there supposed to be a containment thread for that?

>>21835229
well done; but beware, the Vulgate's Latin and classical Latin can feel like two different languages if you plan to move onto the latter, the shock can be quite sensible
>>21835265
Wheelock's fine, just finish it and jump onto easy readers

>>21834558
I am reading Hackett right now and it is pure torture to get through in contrast to the smooth flowing rhythm of Jowett's dialogues. An example of why I shit on him non-stop on here is that in the Apology the word "daemonen" is rendered as "sign." Sign does not accurately portray the true meaning. The entire translation of that piece attempts to minimize the spiritual aspects of the voice he heard and makes it really Reddit-y to read. Like a modern Reddit atheist's translation of it.

Dicite mihi unum bonum YouTuber Latinum. NOLITE autem dicere virum calvum illum.

>>21836485
Satura Lanx si feminae tibi placet
etiam latintutorials

>>21834558
Jowett's prose is better but his translations are rarely very accurate. The Loebs get a lot of shit but I found those translations to be most true to the original greek.

>>21837408
>>21836250
How about Rouse?

>>21837422
Haven't read him

>>21836226
>well done; but beware, the Vulgate's Latin and classical Latin can feel like two different languages if you plan to move onto the latter, the shock can be quite sensible
Oh I'm quite aware. But I'm just saying reading anything in Latin at normal speed without looking up words or grammar is quite the payoff. I bought a bunch of little readers like Fabulae Faciles, Attic Nights, Via Latina, various short stories & fables etc. I'm about to start Jones & Sidwell's Reading Latin as a follow up to my first textbook.

Do you guys get physical books in Latin?

>>21837926
I plan to. I prefer physical books over reading on a screen.

>>21837926
>Do you guys get physical books in Latin?
Yes. I have PDFs of pretty much every book just so that I can take a break from wasting time on my computer to read a chapter or two, but I prefer to read in my kitchen or in my bed with a physical book. When a book is over $40 it has to be something that I will use for years to come or at least be hard to find in PDF. I don't like spending too much money because it can be expensive once you are trying to get more intermediate content to consume.

In Mark 1:3, why is it τῇ ἐρήμῳ? Why not τῷ?

>>21839193
it's one of those weirdo adjectives that has only masculine and neuter endings, in this case χώρα is implied

>>21839248
Thanks anon.

>>21834540
Tried today to start reading Caesar's commentary on the Gallic Wars and was massively filtered.
Feeling demoralized because I've been studying latin for about 6 months and it's still way too hard. And the subject matter is so boring, I can't summon the will to slog through a bunch of bland commentary.
It's hard to vocalize latin in my head, whereas reading spanish I find a lot smoother. Instead I find myself breaking down the sentence into smaller parts in my head, which makes it easier to understand but I feel in some way is holding me back from reading Latin more naturally. Every sentence my eye naturally first skips forward to the verb, then the ending of the verb, & then back to the start of the sentence so it's like I'm processing the sentences backwards, which feels very janky.
There has to be a better way.

>>21837422
>>21837429
Haven’t even heard of him desu.

>>21840231
gonna learn to walk before you can run, depending also on how exactly did you study in the 6 months; at the end of the day, sight reading implies having slogged through enough Latin to make it possible, in a way or the other, e.g ratio viva or translating, etc...
I myself did not sight-read Caesar but translated him, took my time with it, about 3 months to translate all the books(nothing fancy just enough to capture the meaning), and before him I had translated a old reader(Lhomond's), then I also translated some Sallust before being confident enough to read
Caesar is usually babby's first real Latin but if you are finding him boring(I think it picks up in interest when it gets more into battles and stuff) or still too hard you may want to check some easier authors first

>>21840323
Nonsense. Caesar is too easy a starting point for him. He should just dive into Principa Discordia.

>>21840331
The 1968 text by Greg Hill and Kerry Wendell Thornley?

>>21840231
>the subject matter is so boring
Choose something else. I recommend Isidorus. There is something in him for everyone and a fairly simple and straightforward style.

>>21840991
Principa Mathematica I meant. Ooof. Ruined my own joke

>read page of easy Latin
>whew, that's me done for today!

how do I build my stamina

How different is homeric greek from platonic? Can u learn both at the same time? I can read greek just fine, but forgot most of the grammar and vocab.

>>21841591
grammarwise it's not too hard to get used to, it's largely ionic + aeolic + some mycenaean weird stuff, the variety of construct is relatively limited being something that was sung i.e you have heavy repetition of sentence types, you get used to that
the great filter is the lexicon, even if your Attic lexicon is good you're going to be struggling due to the rare words here and there
I appreciate it, reading it morsel by morsel, and you'll also go faster later on

>>21840231
>And the subject matter is so boring, I can't summon the will to slog through a bunch of bland commentary.
What textbook did you use? Any good Latin textbook has you reading basically paraphrased type stories that are taking right out of Caesar with Caesarian vocabulary. So you should be used to this style of prose, unless you used one of those textbooks that has original silly stories in which case, yes the transition is going to be jarring.
>Every sentence my eye naturally first skips forward to the verb, then the ending of the verb, & then back to the start of the sentence so it's like I'm processing the sentences backwards, which feels very janky.
That's a horrible habit and if you can't read Caesar without doing it, good luck with Livy or Tacitus, let alone some of the long Ciceronian sentences. You should grab some intermediate readers on Archive dot org or at least do some adapted Caesar texts like William C. Collar's Gate to Caesar or the Ad Usum Delphini version that's been reprinted by the Paideia Institute. Both paraphrase Caesar in more simple prose so you can compare it back and forth to the original.

Overall it sounds like you didn't spend enough time reading graded texts at your level which are simpler to read at normal speed from left to right. If you are only used to translating sentences one at a time, then you are going to get blown the fuck out trying read an original text like that. Try Fabulae Faciles or Hyginus' Fables. There's also several little readers like Easy Latin Stories or Easy Latin For Sight Reading available in affordable reprints on Amazon. You may have been studying grammar or short sentences for 6 months, but it doesn't sound you've done much extended reading of longer prose during that time. You may unironically force me to recommend LLPSI if you are really this fucked.

>>21841502
just do this every day

>>21840323
What's ratio viva? I can't find anything about it on Google.

>>21842414
I mean the LLPSI style method of teaching based on lots of graded natural input as opposed to grammar-translation grinding

>>21842430
Ah, never heard that term.

>>21842430
>as opposed to grammar-translation grinding
It's not a coincidence that the kind of people who promote this meme that guessing grammar for a highly inflected language is somehow more "pure" are also childless vegans with their pronouns in their Twitter profile. How convenient that the people who lecture others online about "how babies learn" don't actually have any children themselves. I'm not attacking you, but I think people need to admit that we need to read a massive amount of content after you have the ambiguities of grammar ironed out. It's not an either or thing. But when you start hearing this issue described as some kind of binary ultimatum, it's usually new-agey over educated university progressives who don't need to be giving advice to anyone about what's natural and what isn't.

>>21842547
I'm not standing strongly behind either of the two, I used both methods, one for Latin, the other for Greek. Anything works as long as you keep at it, grammar-translation is just the more "traditional" approach, especially in your average schools, where at the end of the day if the student can slowly translate a paragraph using a dictionary the teachers are happy enough

>>21842547
How do you get "guessing grammar"?

>>21842584
>I'm not standing strongly behind either of the two, I used both methods
For sure, neither am I. I found going back and forth to be very useful. When I hit a wall reading, I'll run through a whole grammar textbook to refresh and make sure everything is clear and when grammar terms like the many names of the ablative uses or the various kinds of clauses just turn to mush and I'm not really retaining any of it, I like to pivot towards reading more lighter stuff to get some experience seeing the stuff in the wild.

>>21842675
>How do you get "guessing grammar"?
Reading Latin from day 1 while religiously refusing to look at any English definitions of what's going on grammatically like a nun avoids looking at porn just because it's not "le natural method".

>>21841815
>it doesn't sound you've done much extended reading of longer prose
I have to an extent. The online course I did had long quotes from classical authors.
The issue is even with those i feel like im only translating word by word not naturally reading the sentence as a whole from left to right.
I've tried the beginner books like Lingua Latina but I can't stand them because they are too easy and the subject matter is so incredibly boring.
Like there's only so much i can take of reading shit like "Aemilia mater est" or "Servus in via est" over and over.
Reading it is so boring I feel like falling asleep.
Im currentky working my way through the textbook "Intensive Latin", and even the practice sentences are more interesting (content wise) than anything in LLPSI

>>21843434
>I've tried the beginner books like Lingua Latina but I can't stand them because they are too easy and the subject matter is so incredibly boring.
>Like there's only so much i can take of reading shit like "Aemilia mater est" or "Servus in via est" over and over.
>Reading it is so boring I feel like falling asleep.
>Im currentky working my way through the textbook "Intensive Latin", and even the practice sentences are more interesting (content wise) than anything in LLPSI
Understandable, it wasn't my first choice to recommended to you, but try the other graded readers I also recommended. They are mythology mostly. Translating one sentence at a time is not going to help you read prose. You need to read paragraphs at a time for complete reading comprehension to understand the entire idea that is being conveyed. If you are even above reading those graded readers (which you should still at least take a look at) then try easier authors than Caesar like Nepos, Eutropius, or Aulus Gellius.

>>21841502
that was me like a year ago and now i read 6 pages of hard latin a day. still a long way to go

>>21834558
>>21837422
From a thread maybe a month or two ago.

Comparisons between different translators starting here:
>>/lit/thread/S21535298#p21536537

Rouse added here:
>>/lit/thread/S21535298#p21539473

Discussion of differences starting here:
>>/lit/thread/S21535298#p21539704

>>21841502
it's kinda like with workouts, you don't want to burnout but neither to slack, and this is achieved not so much by absolute numbers but something relative to your own motivation
e.g I usually figure out a rough estimate from the difficulty of the author/section I'm reading which is realistic for the day but not too slacking, e.g for Thucydides I can do 10-15 chapters of normal prose which I'll reduce to 5 if it's a speech. For the Iliad or Aeneid I've experienced I can do 100-300 lines comfortably
so you should test your limits, reasonably considering your goals and time you can actually put into it, and set a reasonable daily cap that keeps you engaged without burning out

Explain why I can't learn Greek by reading a ton of poetry and translating my own into Greek with chat gpt.

bumpus augustus maximus restitutor fili

For those who are more experienced in Latin, what's your take on reading Late or Medieval Latin immediately after finishing your beginner textbook instead of reading Classical stuff like Caesar or Nepos? I've peaked at Augustine's Confessions, but already I'm seeing stuff that's definitely not classical and it feels weird to have dedicated so much time to learning those regularities and then jump into reading stuff that breaks all the rules. Am I being stupid or should I keep going? Pic not related.

>>21847276
mmh, depends on the writer and how virtuous they were in keeping close to the classical paradigm, I think above all you should be having fun in what you read, but maybe also look into something interesting from the classical period to keep your Latin sharp to the defining form of the language

>>21847619
I was thinking about maybe sticking to Late Latin stuff from like 2nd to 6th century at the latest.

>>21847628
>2nd to 6th century
what authors aside from christian apologetics/etc..?

>>21848503
Eutropius, Macrobius, Claudian, Solinus, or Namatianus. I wasn't super interested In patristics, I just heard the Confessions was easy so I read a paragraph or so.

>>21848580
Namatianus' work sounds interesting, of those I've read only a good chunk of Eutropius, but between Greek and Virgil it's going to be a while before I jump to something else, though I should be done with the Aeneid in 1-2 months tops

>>21847276
Read what you want. If you want to focus on that era go for it. All Latin relies heavily upon the classical foundation so it would not hurt to have that as a background but if you really like 2-6th AD go for it. I highly recommend Isodorus.

>>21847276
>>21847619
>>21849120
>started studying Classical Latin recently
>primarily interested in reading the Vulgate, Augustine, Aquinas, etc.
>apparently it's all different
wtf Latinbros?

>>21849489
Latin has its different eras, focus on Classical first, then diversify. I stuck with Classical, since I was primarily interested in De Bello Gallico and Aenied, as well as Suetonius, Cicero, Horace and Apicius.

>>21849565
i'm also interested in reading the aeneid in Latin since all the translations are pretty shit. is it really difficult to read medieval latin if you know classical though, or is it just minor changes?

>>21849489
>works separated by a thousand years are different
>wtf
>>21849579
Going from classical to medieval is much easier than the opposite. With a good classical Latin foundation you will be well equipped to tackle Latin of any era.
As far as difficulty there are some quirks but most of the grammatical stuff is easy to figure out from context. Base vocab is more or less the same but you will need to look up a lot of new words and old words with new uses in the medieval era.

>>21849579
It takes some adapting, a lot of schools that teach Latin make Medieval Latin a full year course.

A.S Kline did a decent (direct) translation, but I understand where you are coming from and having read Aeneid myself, I can tell you that you need to familiarize yourself with poetry structure and Latin synonyms. Catullus is a good starting point for learning Latin poetry structure.

>>21849489
I'd agree to start with Classical. Having finished my course, I can look at something like the Vulgate and more or less get it. A good, but slightly offensive comparison would be learning to read Dickens and then reading a 6th grader's essay. There are some weird things like using the infinitive when they should use the subjunctive to show purpose or an overabundance on prepositions. Doing it the other way around by starting with the Vulgate or medieval Latin would be like learning to read grade school essays and then trying to read Dickens.

For those of you who have learned Latin to fluency and then moved to a Romance language, do you have any advice on how to best transition to learning something like Spanish or French with a focus on reading literature? A lot of textbooks are written for normies who can't wrap their heads around conjugations.

>>21851078
There's an LLPSI style book for French, if you're not against this method of learning.

>>21851101
>There's an LLPSI style book for French
So I actually have all of those Natural Method books including the Spanish and Italian ones too. They are ok. I'm not opposed to the method per se, but I'm not crazy about it. I've actually invested in buying reprints of some of these books so I'm not just bashing them from a distance. I genuinely find them to be a bit overrated as a sole starting resource. I find them as boring as LLPSI if not worse. They are very repetitive and many of the books basically follow the exact structure as far as following some random family around daily life. I can only read a few chapters of these before I get bored out of my mind and basically have moved on from them.

>>21851078
You can blast through a basic or intensive textbook to get the fundamentals down. After Latin conjugations are easy. Focus on the differences and idiosyncrasies of the target language. Huge swaths of vocab are taken straight from Latin and you won't have to worry about the ablative as everything is covered by prepositions.
Even with just Latin and English you can probably grasp like 70% of Spanish and close to that of French. Don't be too concerned about textbooks not being up to snuff, what matters most is your comprehension and with a Latin background that won't be an issue at all.

>>21851197
What did you use? I was looking at Spanish/French For Reading textbooks by Sandberg.

>>21851209
I used German For Reading by Karl Sandberg and it was great. Sandberg's books won't teach you enough vocab though so you'll need to grab Anki decks and start memorising thousands of words. Luckily the Goethe Institute released some nice pre-made German Anki decks, so I used those. I didn't have this vocab problem with Latin because I used LLPSI 1 & 2 which teaches you around 5000-6000 words which is more than enough to read the Vulgate and enough to read Caesar.

>>21851240
>I used German For Reading by Karl Sandberg and it was great.
I did a few of the Spanish for Reading chapters and it's quite comfy.
>I didn't have this vocab problem with Latin because I used LLPSI 1 & 2 which teaches you around 5000-6000 words
I never finish Familia Romana because I was bored to death, but I've finished other textbooks and can read the Vulgate. You think I should finish it and do Roma Aeterna?

>>21851278
Why go back to a series that had you 'bored to death'? Find another book that works for you.
If you can read the Vulgate you aren't far from being able to read classical authors.

>>21851288
>Why go back to a series that had you 'bored to death'?
Because you sounded like you seemed to think it was worth completing. As someone who's at a higher level than me, I respect your opinion.

>>21851278
>You think I should finish it and do Roma Aeterna?
I would, just for the vocab alone. Roma Aeterna is more interesting too because Oerberg uses real Classical Latin by authors like Livy for example although they are abridged and adapted.

>>21851298
That's not me ( >>21851240 )
I'm >>21851299

Has anyone read the following?
>https://www.amazon.com/Via-Latina-lingua-vita-Romanorum/dp/8494534629
It's written by this lady:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5G9gQdtSyY

>>21851298
That's not me, I would never recommend a book that bored someone that much, especially when I have firsthand experience with said book being boring.
You finished other Latin textbooks and read the Vulgate. Why not make the jump to classical authors? Read Caesar, or Virgil, or Cicero. It might be difficult at first but will get easier with time and practice.
You can go back to textbooks for reference but spending too much time on them is unnecessary and wasteful. Just read what you want to and learn from the actual authors.
Reading boring textbooks for the vocab is like reading a dictionary to prepare for Shakespeare. You can suffer through it and finish with abridged and adapted Latin authors or you can go straight to the authors themselves. Which do you think will improve your Latin more? Which will benefit you more?

>>21851313
>reading anything by a woman
>Latin with Spanish word order and syntax

>>21851414
>Reading boring textbooks for the vocab is like reading a dictionary to prepare for Shakespeare. You can suffer through it and finish with abridged and adapted Latin authors or you can go straight to the authors themselves. Which do you think will improve your Latin more? Which will benefit you more?
This was the main reason I was considering finishing it.
>Which do you think will improve your Latin more? Which will benefit you more?
I don't actually know. This whole process of learning Latin has been a headache because everyone gives terrible advice. I've seen people say one thing and claim to be fluent and then another person who also claims to be fluent recommends the complete opposite. At this point I've only made progress by ignoring 90% of people and instead just following trends in advice that seem to overlap with both sides of every argument. It's basically 10% baby worth saving and 90% bathwater that needs to be thrown out. Every once in a while I pop in here to ask a question like this and sift through the answers for a nugget of truth.

>>21851423
>reading anything by a woman
Not for literature, no. But for language learning materials, I have no preference. It seems less retarded than Orberg and that's why I asked if anyone has read it. I'm not here to try to convince anyone to use it. I'm just seeing if anyone has first hand experience with it.
>Latin with Spanish word order and syntax
This is basically how all Euro neo-Latin speakers larp so idk why this is surprising

>>21851439
there's more than 1 way to skin a cat

>>21851442
Asking people on /clg/ what textbook to use is like asking /k/ what the best bullet caliber is or asking /pol/ if Italians are white.

>>21851439
Read authentic authors. You finished textbooks. You can read the Vulgate. You are more than ready to start reading real Latin.
>everyone gives terrible advice
Stop going to the internet for advice.

>>21851475
Stop going to the internet for advice.
This is kind of a lame thing to say because not everyone has access to a classics professor to mentor them.

>>21851535
find out which textbooks cambridge or oxford university use for their classics degrees and use those.

>Italia inter duo maria interest, quōrum alterum, quod suprā Italiam situm est, 'mare Superum' sīve Hadriāticum' appellātur, alterum, īnfrā Italiam situm, 'mare īnferum' sīve 'Tūscum'.
is this good latin

>>21851684
Isn't this from chapter 16 of Familia Romana? Or whatever the sailing chapter is.

>>21851700
it's from my speech to the senatus

>>21851684
seems fine, maybe 'interest' is superfluous, just 'sita est' or 'est' is better since there's already the preposition 'inter'

>>21851896
The book has multiple sentences that say things like "in sacculo pirum inest".

Anyone here learning Classical Arabic by learning Quran by heart? I'm not a Muslim, and I recommend it for non Muslims. It's the most beautiful poetry written in Arabic.
Also do you have any long term goals?
I'd like to be a first person who translated both whole Bible and the Quran.

>>21851946
it's perfectly fine really, just sounds a bit redundant I think

>>21852037
>arabic
>beautiful
um, arabic sounds like someone angrily choking on a falafel

>>21852037
>Anyone here learning Classical Arabic by learning Quran by heart? I'm not a Muslim, and I recommend it for non Muslims. It's the most beautiful poetry written in Arabic.
I don't know if I would learn the entire Quran by heart, but to memorize some verses sure.
>I'm not a Muslim, and I recommend it for non Muslims. It's the most beautiful poetry written in Arabic.
I will learn Hebrew first, but to live 80 or so years on this earth and never learn Arabic seems uncultured.
>Also do you have any long term goals?
Yes. I want to learn a new language every year for the rest of my life.

>>21851439
>Not for literature, no.
If a book is good, why does it matter what the author had between their legs?

>>21852184
>If a book is good, why does it matter what the author had between their legs?
Because the book being good in the first place usually depends on what the author has between their legs.

>>21852218
You sound like you've never read Shelley. Or Austen. Or Dickinson. Or Eliza Cook. Or Li Qingzhao. Or Murasaki Shikibu.

>>21835464
where?

>>21852259
The majority of the stuff written by women is not good. You are naming exceptions to prove the generalization that that the sex the author doesn't matter. That's like saying whether or not a person is a felon or not shouldn't matter in the hiring process, because some felons are actually reformed and won't try to rape their fellow coworkers. Like the HR person doing the hiring, no thank you I will not waste my time looking for exceptions. I encourage you to do so if you are so inclined. I am not. That's the beauty of art like literature or music, we can all spend our time consuming what interests ourselves. You sound like you are enjoying it, so I don't know why you care what I'm reading.

Also this has nothing to do with classical languages.

>>21852301
>The majority of the stuff written by women is not good.
The majority of stuff written by men isn't good either. Sturgeon's Law applies regardless of gender.

>>21852417
Spotted the Esperanto tranny.

>>21852417
woah this guy named dropped some reddit "law" he must be smart. BIPOC-literature-sama, i kneel...

>>21852483
Sturgeon's Law is "90 percent of everything is crap".

>>21851439
>I've seen people say one thing and claim to be fluent and then another person who also claims to be fluent recommends the complete opposite
makes sense if the key ingredient is there, constant effort
really it's stupid to say but I think many start with the wrong foot when they look for "The Method"; when I decided to study Latin I literally just googled and chose the first book that seemed popular enough, Wheelock's, and just stuck with it, I had no idea that other methods even existed
it's maybe only a variable to consider for students who have time constraints + exams and thus may need specifically organized study material but I think most of us here are just amateurs doing it in our free time and most textbooks written are going to produce results with reasonable personal effort
the best advice maybe one could give would be to aim for whatever keeps you engaged

is it me or the thread dies during new world hours? are we nearly all Euros here or what?

>>21854645
Nah, I think a lot of the Americans like me, post in the evening or late at night.

>tfw got sucked into learning every romance language

>>21855100
>tfw got sucked into learning every romance language
I might fuck around and learn Old Occitan just to stunt on these niggas

>>21855205
I literally started Old Occitan the other day. Use Paden's book.

>>21852063
I've already learned Hebrew (I teach modern and biblical Hebrew in a private school rn, it took me 4,5/5 years to achieve C1/C2), but Arabic is way harder.

>>21855205
to read the Troubadours?

>>21855205
this made me think
knowing both a Romance language as native speaker and being fairly experienced with Latin, how easy would it be to approach and appreciate a text like the Chanson de Roland in the original?

>>21855316
since Old French originates from some German dialect, you still need a dictionary to get those words but if you already know modern French, the need will be minimized

>>21855210
>I literally started Old Occitan the other day. Use Paden's book.
How much reading material is in the book once you learn the grammar? I know a lot of texts are written in Old Occitan since it was the most popular Romance vernacular in use beyond Latin for writing, but I would imagine most texts are either only accessible in manuscript form in European university libraries, or in French language commentaries that are unavailable overseas. As someone in the USA will I be able to find stuff to read or am I basically just learning the grammar to read fragments like Gothic? I know you just recently started, so sorry for all the questions.

>>21855297
>it took me 4,5/5 years to achieve C1/C2
How do people use this CEFR system to rate ancient or literary languages?

>>21855311
>to read the Troubadours?
Of course. I may also learn Medieval Galician.

>>21855316
>knowing both a Romance language as native speaker and being fairly experienced with Latin, how easy would it be to approach and appreciate a text like the Chanson de Roland in the original?
I honestly have no idea because I'm not terribly interested in Old French. I'm sorry.

>>21855350
>since Old French originates from some German dialect
wat; I understand it will have Germanic borrowings(I know some German too though) but isn't it mostly an old Romance dialect?
my native Romance language is not French unfortunately

>>21855414
>It dates between 1129 and 1165 and was written in Anglo-Norman
Old French has two broad categories: from the north (germanic) and from the south (latin). Since the Chanson de Roland comes from the north, you'll need some german/english or modern French to get through it passably. Also, you need some knowledge of case based languages.

>>2185543
> you'll need some german/english or modern French to get through it passably. Also, you need some knowledge of case based languages.
Not the guy you were replying to, but this is why I may put off learning Old Occitan until after I've learned French and Spanish. Although I've heard it's easy if you already can read medieval Latin competently. So idk.

>>21855297
>I've already learned Hebrew (I teach modern and biblical Hebrew in a private school rn, it took me 4,5/5 years to achieve C1/C2),
Impressive, if your native language is a European one. I'm also currently learning it and I wonder how much work you put into it. Were you living in Israel at some point, or just reading a lot? It's harder to find content for immersing than for French and Spanish.

>>21855976
I'm Slavic, so it was a challenge. I've finished עברית מן ההתחלה the so called yellow book, all by myself, I've learned some Biblical Hebrew grammar on the university, and after two years, I've travelled to Israel to volunteer there on organic farms (WWOOF I strongly recommend it for language immersion). There I learned very intensively by speaking in Hebrew (they don't have dialect's and it's amazing). Then I came back to my country and got accepted on MA in Hebrew studies (which required B1/B2). If you live in Europe (or anywhere else if you have some money), go and travel to Israel. The flights are cheap. If you need some tips feel free to ask anon. How good is your Hebrew? Do you learn only modern or also biblical?

>>21855387
>I know you just recently started, so sorry for all the questions.
All good. I'll answer what I can, given my knowledge. Paden's book in particular is based around the readings in Old Occitan at the end of each chapter, so there's definitely some reading material there. Once you get advanced, there are actually lots of good editions of Old Occitan texts in anthologies and bilingual editions with French or Italian on the one side and Occitan on the other (this is the impression I get from browsing my university library). You can probably order Old Occitan texts from overseas, or if you have access to a university library, I would check there.
One caveat: basically every book I've seen for learning Old Occitan assumes you know French and sometimes even Latin.

>>21856036
I see, thanks.
> How good is your Hebrew? Do you learn only modern or also biblical?
Not yet at a level were it would make sense to travel to Israel, and right now the political situation doesn't make it exactly inviting. But I'm not in a hurry, only learning it on the side.
And Biblical only for now (mainly because there's a very nice immersive YouTube course, but the restricted vocabulary and pointed text also makes it more amendable to self-learners), but interested in branching out to Modern at some point.
>>21856040
Any especially interesting texts in Old Occitan you're a fan of? Or any other Old Romance languages, for that matter?

>>21856040
>One caveat: basically every book I've seen for learning Old Occitan assumes you know French and sometimes even Latin.
I think I'm going to learn French and Spanish first then. No rush, but I am excited to get to it eventually.

bump

I wrote this recently. Not sure if it will render properly, but thought maybe someone would enjoy.
Ἕκτορος ἱπποδάμοιο χρὼς ἐπὶ δίφρου ἐπεστί.
Τρῶες δ’ οἰμώζουσ’ ὠτειλὰς καί μιν ὁρόντες.
στήθεα τίλλουσι, στενάχοντες ἀγήνορι φωτί,
οἰζυροὶ λαοὶ· ὅτι πέρσεται ἡ πτόλις ἱρος.
οὐκ ἐν τείχεσσ’ ῖσος μὴν ἥρωι μόθοιο
ὅς τοὺς ῥύετο, νῦν δὲ καθεύδει κὰκ χθονὸς λυγράς,
ὥς ὁ Παλαιολόγος θνῄσκων ἐπί γαίης,
ἐν δὲ πόλει πατρῶν κάρτιστος στῆσε λέων ὥς,
ὕστατος γὰρ βασίλευς Ῥωμαίων. αὐτὰρ Ἀχιλλεύς
ἤλυθε νικήσων Θράκηνδε βίηφι κεραυνοῦ
σχέτλιος· ἤδ’ ἥβῃ ἀρχαίας τείχε’ ἔδακνε
αὐτὰρ τεθνηώτες πάντες Ἰλίου ἄνδρες
οἵ τε πόληος. δ’ οἰμώζω ὦ Κονσταντῖνε.
άλλα βιοῦσ’ αἰεί, αἰεί ἐν μουσικῇ ἡμῶν.

I'm not sure how many errors I have but this is the first draft.

>>21857699
I just noticed one fuck. ἱρος should be ἱρή

>>21857699
How do you learn to compose in a language and not just read it?

>>21857754
I didn't. I just read Homer for class and got obsessed.

>>21857728
I also noticed a second error. γάρ doesn't work. I need to put something like ἦ there.

>>21857699
bretty nice anon, maybe I'll post something similar eventually, I was beginning to render the text of a song in Epic meter and adapted a bit; just a couple of things, the 7th line sounds like it's missing a short-short-long before ἐπί γαίης, in the 9th I think the meter isn't right at the beginning
also not sure about the exact meaning of the 11th line

going to bed now anyway, I'll reply tomorrow

>>21857769
Thanks Anon. I fixed the 9th line. (I had had an erro in line 5 but I noticed that one in time). And holy shit you're right about line 7 I had an extra word there and completely forgot to put it in when I rearranged the line.

>>21857782
The word btw is αἰνῶς right before the line.

>interested in learning latin
>read people's experiences
>"so uh it will take you ~2 years of reading shitty synthetic latin for children before you can comfortably read any of the classical authors
What's the fucking point? That sounds so depressing. I feel like picking up French or Italian instead. It seems like in half the time it would take me to work up to even short chunks of Virgil I could gain competence in multiple modern languages and whizzing through Dante and Proust instead.

>>21857981
no one tell this man how long it takes to learn french comfortably

>>21857981
ask any native burger if they can analyze the language of Shakespeare (de vere) without sparknotes

>>21855414
Much like the anglos, a concentrated effort by the elite was made to rub off the prestige of Latin unto their own vernacular by stealing a lot of words, especially during the Renaissance

>>21858005
Caesar is traditionally the simplest of the major classical Latin authors. He wrote his book as political propaganda to be read in the Forum and understood by even the dumbest plebs in Rome. Yet people here are being defeated by him after 6 months of Latin. Do you think the average French learner finds Le Petit Prince too difficult after 6 months of intensive study of the written language?

>>21858013
>oxfordian
Opinion discarded

Native burgers watch movies with Shakespearean dialogue. They obviously don't get all of it but they do get the gist. More than, apparently, can be said for Latinists encountering the most basic classical texts without years of study.

>>21858067
>They obviously don't get all of it but they do get the gist.
thank you for making my point

>>21856139
If I could recommend something to you, it would be to start learning Modern Hebrew rn. I know Biblical Hebrew immersive channel on yt, it's very good, but has some flaws, that I can elaborate on later. Modern Hebrew is way easier than biblical because: 1) you have 7-9 mln natives. 2) Plenty of materials - books, tv series, movies, songs, stupid youtube compilations etc. etnirely in modern Hebrew. 3) its grammar is basically simplified Biblical grammar, so you probably understand most of it right now. Try learning from the famous yellow book https://www.amazon.com/Hebrew-Scratch-Part-1/dp/9653501127 you can download it easily from lib gen for free. Bible is amazing, but the main problems with it are vocabulary( in 95% retains the meaning in modern Hebrew) and grammar (obscure grammatical forms, rare occurings, weird vowel placments, etc.). However if I didn't convince you, and you want to learn only biblical Hebrew rn, try learning until you know (you don't have to master them, just learn to distinguish between some of them) all the verb forms (7 binyanim), and then start reading some easy books from the bible. I strongly recommend Jonah (everything except for the prayer of Jonah from 2nd chapter is quite easy), Rut, some parts of the Genesis (first 2-3 chapters are hard, don't start from the beginning). Then you can try to explore the Bible by yourself, but beware of the really hard parts - Psalms, Job, Lamentations, their language is quite hard, and they use tons of synonyms.

>>21858875
> If I could recommend something to you, it would be to start learning Modern Hebrew rn.
The most important reason for sticking to Biblical is that I already started learning it, and I don't want to spread myself too thin. Fortunately, the difference between the old and modern variant isn't as big as in most other languages.
>I know Biblical Hebrew immersive channel on yt, it's very good, but has some flaws, that I can elaborate on later.
I'm planning on getting a textbook once I'm at the end of what their current offering, so it won't be my only resource.
> I strongly recommend Jonah (everything except for the prayer of Jonah from 2nd chapter is quite easy), Rut, some parts of the Genesis (first 2-3 chapters are hard, don't start from the beginning).
Thanks, that's exactly what I'm hoping to be able to read at the end (okay, in fact the entire תורה and also the ספר מלכים). Not sure I'll ever get to the poetic books, will probably try reading parts of the משנה before that.
I posted about אהבת ציון by אברהם מאפו before, which seems to be written in a Biblical style and might make for good immersive content, and supposedly some medieval poetry also falls in that category (but that's poetry again, so idc). If you have any other recommendations for Classicizing Hebrew, I'd be happy to hear them.

Is there any Latin written in the 21st century worth reading?

>>21858945
> idc
Should have been idk, I do care!

>>21858945
i've mentioned somewhere ספר שעשועים, it's an interesting book. I'm mostly reading books that are not literature, e.g. halachic and kabbalistic texts.
I think that you might enjoy a letter sent to the 10 tribes of Israel that were supposed to live in Tejman (Yemen). https://www.sefaria.org/Letter_to_the_Ten_Lost_Tribes_of_Israel
Don't read the whole Torah (unless you need it for religious reasons), בראשית and שמות are more than enough. Try jumping through the bible, it's really fun and you can learn more that way.

>>21858990
> i've mentioned somewhere ספר שעשועים
Oh, that was you! Yes, this was a great suggestion and it's surely on my list. Just way in the future still, because I'll have to get a grip on Mishnaic first, and that is also still a far way off. In fact, I'll probably be busy with
> halachic and kabbalistic texts
for some time, רמב״ם foremost. And, since you're interested in Arabic: One of his translators, אלחריזי, also created a fun (liberal) translation of Al-Hariri's Maqamat. But you probably know all that already.
> https://www.sefaria.org/Letter_to_the_Ten_Lost_Tribes_of_Israel
Thanks, bookmarked.

>>21836485
Latinitium

>>21858965
Stephen A. Berard's books look interesting, but my Latin isn't good enough yet.
I heard people praise some Italian dude with original Latin poetry on his homepage, but I can't recall his name rn.

>>21859071
> Stephen A. Berard
> "Laus necrophiliae", in "The American Classical League Newsletter", mens. apr. anno 2003

I love you all and I'm rooting for you to succeed in your language studies! Do NOT give up!

>>21859370
thank you kind anon
are YOU studying an ancient language?

>>21859501
YES I am about to jump into real Latin literature and I'm holding onto my butt!

>>21859508
nice, Musae tecum sient

>>21859060
Never heard about al hariri's maqama's translated to Hebrew (sorry for any errors I'm on DXM rn).
My fiance is studying Arabic and she has his maqama's translated to Polish, ان شاء الله I will read it after our wedding.

>>21860175
> Never heard about al hariri's maqama's translated to Hebrew
Unfortunately half of that translation is lost, I only found out after posting.
> My fiance is studying Arabic and she has his maqama's translated to Polish, ان شاء الله I will read it after our wedding.
If someone here happens to read German, I've seen there's also a venerable translation by Rückert.<div class="xa23b"><span class="xa23t"></span><span class="xa23i"></span></div>

Is learning modern Greek before Ancient really a waste of time? It just seems like there is so much more to watch and listen to. I don't want to watch or listen to people's shitty reconstruction larps. But I also don't want to get btfo trying to read after a short amount of grammar instruction.

>>21860367
They are both good.

>>21860370
Bruh that's not an answer.

>>21860367
depends if you care about modern Greek at all, you are going to have to spend quite some time with it anyway; I don't really see why not simply learn ancient Greek if that's what you are ultimately interested in

>>21860372
Q: is language 1 a waste of time over language 2?
A: they're both good.

>This isn't an answer btw

>>21860383
>I don't really see why not simply learn ancient Greek if that's what you are ultimately interested in
Because people seem to spend a lot of time on it and get absolutely nowhere. And if the answer to accelerate this process is listening to/watching horrible larp audio and reading shitty novellas I can't be bothered. Listening to the radio in Greek everyday and watching YouTube videos or news in the modern language is infinitely more tolerable to me even if I'm not crazy about modern Greece.

>>21860406
To be honest with you why not go to Greece? Seriously, it's nice. You'll get language and you'll have a searchange.

>>21860406
I don't think there are many people who have learned or learn ancient Greek audiovisually, there's not much such content unlike with Latin, doesn't stop us from reaching appreciable fluency, at least as far as reading
consider that phonetically ancient and modern differ a lot, not to mention the rest, albeit still a relatively and remarkably continuous daughter language
you'll still need to put some effort to transition anyway

I DEMAND to know one of Greek, Classical Arabic, or Sanskrit.
Not willing to put in any effort, though.

>>21861254
good news!
they're all incredibly easy to learn

>>21861254
>Greek
If you can only muster a few weeks of effort before bailing, then Greek is best suited for you. The first 2-3 weeks are the most grueling as you get acclimated to the forms. Once you actually start reading, it significantly easier than Latin. For Latin the nightmare only begins once you look at a real text after "mastering" the grammar.
>Classical Arabic, or Sanskrit.
Arabic and Sanskrit will blow you out of the fucking water if you are lazy.

what's your preferred way to render the hexameter(either in your head, subvocalizing, singing, whatever)?
like, do you for example treat each line as a unit and pause at the end of them regardless of the completion of the sentence, or do you try to pause at the caesura, end of the sentence, or something else?

How do I learn Sumerian? Quickly, as far as that goes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd7qeP3R5vw
I feel a need to do the first dirge.

BVMP

I wish I came from a rich family so I could just sit around and study ancient languages all day like all my lit heroes.
Being a wagecuck is pure suffering.

>>21863248
Depending on what exactly your job is, you can still incorporate stuff, like listening to audiobooks while driving.

I WANT TO MARRY BETH FROM ALEPH WITH BETH

>>21863248
convince the government you are retarded a become a NEET, and just spend all day at the cafe reading books and taking notes

>>21863619
>I WANT TO MARRY BETH FROM ALEPH WITH BETH
Ahh, a true patrician.

>>21861254
what do you mean by forms

>>21852301
> Like the HR person doing the hiring, no thank you I will not waste my time looking for exceptions. I encourage you to do so if you are so inclined. I am not. That's the beauty of art like literature or music, we can all spend our time consuming what interests ourselves. You sound like you are enjoying it, so I don't know why you care what I'm reading
I just wanted to let you know that your post made me laugh because I don't even need to see how your opponent responded to know that he immediately used a fallacious argument to refute your cogent one.

>Want to start learning Latin or Greek
>Virtually everything worth reading to me has an original in Greek
>Apparently it's the more difficult of the two
>I'm almost 30 and too stupid to learn anything new

>>21865182
I started learning Greek around when I was 28, couple and half years later and I'm reading Homer and Thucydides, you can do it fren.
I knew Latin already though, which I started learning around 24-25

I DEMAND more posts about other literary or classical languages like Sanskrit, Pali, Avestan, Tibetan, Chinese, Mayan, Coptic, Egyptian, Hittite, Ugaritic, Akkadian, Sumerian, Elamite, Ethiopic, Meroitic, Sabaen, Norse, Gothic, Anglo-Saxon, Old Welsh, Old French, Medieval Galician, Old Occitan, Old Spanish, Old Irish, Classical Gaelic, Renaissance Italian, Ottoman Turkish, Classical Arabic, Classical Persian, Middle Korean, Classical Japanese, Middle Persian, Old Persian, Bactrian, Aramaic, Syriac, Hebrew, Minoan, & Etruscan -

OR ELSE!

>>21865275
why don't you make one? Is it because you don't know any of them?

>>21865848
>Is it because you don't know any of them?
YES. I need someone to share their experiences learning these languages so that I can be motivated.

Just started Sanskrit again after dropping it many years ago.

Why do the dictionaries list -a ending nouns not in nominative singular? E.g. "wealth" is listed as धन dhana, n. , but when used in nominative singular it is धनम् dhanam. Same goes for masculine. "boy", listed as बाल bāla, is बालः bālaḥ in nom. sing. Feminine nouns have long vowel ī ā endings and are listed with the long vowel. What is the purpose of doing this?

Thots on LLPSI? Anyone stuck with it? I found this not-autistic guide that outlines a whole plan. Hows the efficiency compared to more standard methods?
I learned French through a combination of textbooks and rote memorization and it did not feel efficient at all.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PB5HPz2wBDgqWXPnn5ONgZicOPv8P7LbODvkCxjpI3w/edit

>>21866842
A decent reader worth pairing with other textbooks. Unfortunately it has one fatal flaw - it is mind-numbingly boring.

>>21865275
I speak Hebrew, and I have pretty good knowledge of Akkadian and Arabic (fusha and palestinian Arabic). I want to learn Aramaic (first eastern jewish aramaic, then maybe some other dialect). How do I start? I've tried many times, I can read some sections of Talmud Bavli, but I need to use a Hebrew translation, in order to read it fluently.
Pls help by recommending a good jewish aramaic textbook.

>>21834540
Ancient Greek and Persian are based as they allow you to read the thoughts at the pinnacle of civilization before and outside of the nonsense bollocks that was Christianity.
Latin and Sanskirt are for retards, especially for religious retards that think learning and reading a bunch of nonsense religious texts makes them smart. No, Thomas Aquinas was not a smart man, he was an idiot, and his bastardizing of Aristotle deserves him to be assraped by a gang of niggers on the spot. But maybe you're a redditfag that wants to sound smart by saying shit like "ceteris paribus" and "ad hominem" or whatever the fuck. Just remember, you're using the language primarily used by a memetic cancer. Same goes for Romans, which were a bunch of /pol/fag Hellenistic LARPers.
Chinese is too much effort for too little gain.

>>21867510
embarrassing

>>21867513
> What is not supposed to be my concern! First and foremost the good cause, then God's cause, the cause of mankind, of truth, of freedom, of humanity, of justice; further, the cause of my people, my prince, my fatherland; finally, even the cause of mind3 and a thousand other causes. Only my cause is never to be my concern. 'Shame on the egoist who thinks only of himself!'

>>21867510
vae capiti tuo vapulo, pol si hac comminus diceres os flagris perflagrans facerem

>>21865964
I mean I don't know Sanskrit but although the western tradition uses nom. + gen. traditionally for Latin and Greek due to the often unpredictable phonetic shit happening in the nominative making the root from the genitive form insufficient, it's after all merely a convenient convention
I'd guess for Sanskrit knowing that singular form is enough to know how the noun declines

>>21867592
I said, Romans and Scholastics are retards, you fucking gremlin.

>>21866842
Boring. If you can somehow stomach the first 2/3 of the book, the last stretch is an ok read. As the other guy said, it's just a reader, don't use it as a textbook unless you want to quit from boredom before even reaching chapter 12. Most people do so when they try to only use it as a lone resource.

>>21867875
>>21866844
What are the /lit/ approved method materials?

>>21868293
>/lit/ approved method
No such thing, it doesn't matter what "method" you pick. All that matters is that you stick with whatever you pick, you finish whatever you start, and you don't procrastinate like a lazy bum. I feel like this has been said so many times, I find it hard to imagine that you haven't already read this, but whatever dude - here you go:

1. Pick a grammar primer and finish it. Just finish it. Even if you hate it, just finish it.
>Latin For Beginners - B.L. D'ooge
>First Year Latin - Collar & Daniell
>Latin An Intensive Course - Moreland & Fleischer
>Wheelock's Latin
>Gwynne's Latin
>Primer for Ecclesiastical Latin - J. F. Collins

2. Pair it with some graded readers or reading method courses to complete simultaneously as your primer.
>Latin By The Natural Method - W. Most
>Reading Latin - Jones & Sidwell
>New Latin Primer - Maxey & Fay
>LLPSI Familia Romana - Orberg
>Via Latina (2022) - Garcia & Garrido
>Julia - M. Reed
>Cornelia - M. Maxey
>Carolus Et Maria - M. Fay
>38 Latin Stories - Groton & May

3. Read as much intermediate stuff as you can to XP grind
>Via Latina - William C. Collar
>Easy Latin Stories - C. Bennett
>Easy Latin For Sight Reading - B.L. D'ooge
>Fabulae Syrae - L. Miraglia
>The New Gradatim - W.C. Collar
>Epitome Historiae Sacrae - C. Lhomond
>Roma Aeterna - Orberg
>The Gate to Caesar - W.C. Collar

4. Read a simple author and write down unknown words. Make flashcards if necessary. You will get BTFO, just keep reading and deal with it. Lick your wounds and come back to fight another day.
>Hyginus
>Phaedrus
>Avianus
>Jerome
>Augustine
>Cornelius Nepos
>Eutropius
>Julius Caesar
>Sallust

Boys, where should I start if I want to read medieval alchemical texts in their original latin? I've heard medieval Latin is basically full blown schizo jail cell scribbling at times.

>>21868487
Solid post, king.

>>21868997
Search "Latin Paleography" and you will find resources. At a minimum learn Carolingian Miniscule which was the standard.

>>21867510
>Latin is religious while Greek is le epic paganism!
Absolute retardation

>>21868487
based

>>21869062
I think he means Latin language, not script
>>21868997
Classical Latin will prepare you well for any type of Latin you encounter. Medieval Latin has its differences but with a solid foundation they can easily be overcome. Biggest hurdle is vocabulary.

>>21865275
I've been learning Classical Chinese for a while, anything you'd like to know?

>>21866842
>The artificial habit of transverbalisation may be a hard one to break for those with previous exposure to the grammar-translation method, where you translate the text into your native language using a vocabulary and drilled-in formulas in order to understand the translation instead of the original. At the same time, this habit must be broken in order to start gaining proficiency in the language.
This is what I've been trying to say for some time now.

>>21868997
>latin written in godawful secretary scrawl
>isn't even real latin, just written to look like it
Sasuga, Mr. Dee.

yeah, you're in for a time.

>>21869947
>I've been learning Classical Chinese for a while, anything you'd like to know?
Someone earlier said it was too much work compared to what you actually get out of it. Is this true? If not, do you know any other classical language and how does the corpus compare in terms of quality (or quantity)?

>>21869972
That is English

>>21869987
They'll throw in random latin and not write it in the usual script to denote it. It's from a MS loaded with latin but it's the only example I have on me right now. And half the microfilm tends to look like this at best.

>>21869983
I don't think that's true. I can't really say much as far as comparing goes, but there's absolutely a massive and highly varied corpus for Classical Chinese, and some of it is very good. Some of the most moving poetry I've ever read is in Classical Chinese.

>>21870013
Are you able to find texts without knowing Mandarin? Like do I have to learn modern Chinese so I can go through archive sites for pdfs or to buy physical copies from chinese stores?

>>21870028
Not really, no, ctext and kanripo have plenty and you can often find texts online just by googling the title. A little basic Mandarin will help, but if you already know the characters it's not hard to pick up enough basic Mandarin to navigate.

>>21870058
That said, Mandarin does help just because there's a lot of resources and translations and annotations in Mandarin but you can definitely learn Classical Chinese without knowing Mandarin.

>>21870058
What about physical copies?

>>21870068
I haven't looked into it too much, but my university library has a bunch.

>>21869947
how much time did it took you, to learn i-ching? How different is classical chinese from modern chinese? I know that there are tools that enable you to switch between simplified and traditional character, I want to start learning modern chinese, is it possible for me to understand classical chinese just by switching between scripts? What else would I have to learn in order to understand classical chinese? Is there a lot of grammar difference?

>>21871059
I think the grammar is completely different. From what I understand Mandarin grammar is virtually uninflected like English, minus the articles. From what I understand, Classical Chinese was the truest literary language in the sense that it was never spoken. The characters don't even have sounds, they just represent ideas so that anyone could read or write in it regardless if you spoke Japanese or Korean or something else like that.

bvmp

>>21861398
>For Latin the nightmare only begins once you look at a real text after "mastering" the grammar.
This is what im afraid of. Latin seemed easy at first due to its similarities to spanish but goddamn are there so many different forms and ambiguities in translating.
Im beginning to feel like im too much of a tard and should just stick to spanish.

>>21872849
>Im beginning to feel like im too much of a tard and should just stick to spanish.
I'm probably at a similar level to you, minus the history of Spanish. Just stick with it. I noticed that the first few weeks after finishing my textbook were the most demoralizing. I'm starting to feel a bit better. I'm just continuing to go through graded readers and complete other textbooks for fun. At this point I'm not bullying myself for not being 100% fluent and am instead just focusing on the XP grind. I'm already noticing that the subjunctive is becoming less of a mystery to me.

>>21872849
that's kinda the juicy prize fruit that makes it satisfying at the end of the day

>>21871059
>how much time did it took you, to learn i-ching?
I haven't studied I Ching. My dad knows how to do I Ching readings, or he did, but he uses a translation; he reads no Chinese.
>How different is classical chinese from modern chinese?
Pretty different, though the writing system disguises the extent of the phonetic changes. (The farther back you go the less poetry rhymes in modern pronunciation, though.) There are substantial differences in vocabulary and grammar, though.
>I know that there are tools that enable you to switch between simplified and traditional character, I want to start learning modern chinese, is it possible for me to understand classical chinese just by switching between scripts?
The distinction between simplified and traditional characters is purely a matter of the written characters; it's orthogonal to the distinction between Mandarin and Classical Chinese, and you can write either language in either character set. If you want to learn Classical Chinese, though, I'd recommend going straight into Classical Chinese; learning Mandarin just to learn Classical Chinese is like learning French just to learn Latin or learning Hindi just to learn Sanskrit.
>What else would I have to learn in order to understand classical chinese? Is there a lot of grammar difference?
Some yeah, though some of the constructions that aren't natively inherited by Mandarin are still borrowed into the literary register of it.
>>21871455
>I think the grammar is completely different.
There's some resemblance, but as different as French and Latin.
>From what I understand Mandarin grammar is virtually uninflected like English, minus the articles.
Pretty much yeah- as is Classical Chinese, though it had a bit of derivational morphology which survives in the form of modern-day readings. For example, in ancient times 數 could be read *sroʔ (ʔ is a glottal stop, like the sound in the middle of 'uh-oh') meaning 'to count' or *sros meaning 'number', and in modern Chinese the final consonant dropped off but it left behind a change in tone, so now 'count' is shǔ (rising and falling tone) and 'number' is shù (falling tone)
>From what I understand, Classical Chinese was the truest literary language in the sense that it was never spoken.
It's more polished and telegraphic, but I don't see any reason to think it isn't basically based on spoken Old Chinese.
>The characters don't even have sounds, they just represent ideas so that anyone could read or write in it regardless if you spoke Japanese or Korean or something else like that.
That's not entirely true; they don't stand for abstract ideas, they stand for particular words. The vast majority consist of a phonetic component that gives the approximate pronunciation plus a semantic classifier that gives the general category of meaning, and those semantic classifiers were used much more loosely and inconsistently in older texts

>>21873379
Thanks for correcting my assumptions. I didn't see anyone answering his question so I tried to offer what little knowledge I had on the subject. This is definitely not my wheelhouse.

>>21834540
Where can I procure a physical copy of Italian Athenaze?

>>21873647
Glad I could help, don't hesitate to ask if you have any other questions.

Is French as difficult to learn as Latin? I’ve been learning Latin for about a year and a half and have been curious about learning French. Is it more of the same endless series of declensions and tenses basically?

>>21874151
No declensions in French. If you’re used to Latin grammar, I imagine French would seem far easier by comparison. Pronunciation and comprehending spoken French are a bit trickier in my opinion, but come with practice and input.

>>21874193
Interesting. Thanks for the info. I’m mostly interested in reading French, not speaking it. I was thinking that if it is as difficult to learn as Latin that I might not bother and instead spend that time on improving my Latin or learning Greek instead.

OK, I've finished Eutropius' Breviarium Historiae Romanae. For some reason, everything after Liber VIII felt more difficult. Anyone else feel the same?

I need recommendations on what to read next. I've narrowed it down to Ennius' Euhemerus or Nepos' De Viris Illustribus. What does /clg/ think?

>>21874731
Nepos

>reading Maxey & Fay Latin Primer from the 1930s for some easy reading practice
>first 20 or so chapters are standard boring shit about children going to school, going on walks in summer
>suddenly decide chapter 28 is the right time to go full Mein Kampf against native Americans

>>21875180
Olim locus ubi urbs mea stat erat silva. Bestiae et barbari errabant per silvas et trans flumina. Tum viri Gallici huc venerunt. Signa pulchra portabant; splendida insignia galeas et scuta ornabant. Barbari non erant ignavi sed viri Gallici novis armis armati erant. Animi barbarorum erant fortes sed barbari timebant. Erant multa proelia, tamen. Diu pugnatum est. Tandem barbari castra vivorum oppugnaverunt et multos dies ibi sederunt. Copia cibi non erat satis magna et viri perterriti erant. Saepe colloquia habebant et tandem constituerunt barbaros oppugnare. Hoc fecerunt et sic in fugam barbaros dederunt. Viri Gallici tamen non manerunt. Castra moverunt et ad flumen magnum iverunt.

Deinde viri Britannici venerunt et aedificaverunt castra quae manserunt. Primo erat oppidum parvum quo viri venerunt si cibum cupiebant. In portu tamen erant multa navigia et multi hic laborabant. Multi viri ad hoc oppidum iverunt et mox erat urbs. Nunc est urbs magna et etiam nunc viri huc veniunt et manent.

Hi viri qui venerunt erant validi et multa intellegebant. Vias longas et latas fecerunt, sed hodie non sunt satis multae neque satis latae. Terram facimus et in terra nova vias novas facimus. Illi viri tecta magna et pulchra aedificaverunt. Nos ubique haec tecta rapimus et delemus et aedificia magna aedificamus. Etiam nunc barbari celantur in urbe nostra et cives miseri sunt. Nos tamen eos non oppugnamus neque illi castra quae expugnare possumus habent. Cives bonos tamen habemus et tandem hi cives boni excitabuntur et nos illam gentem malam ex urbe nostra magna cum laetitia mittemus.

>>21875262
quite easy to read. what is this from?

>>21875287
A New Latin Primer by Mima Maxey and Marjorie Fay

It's incredibly easy but I want to finish it to boost my total Latin reading time and to consolidate the easy stuff.

>>21875287
>>21875341
I listed more easy stuff to read here: >>21868487

>>21867232
>I want to learn Aramaic (first eastern jewish aramaic, then maybe some other dialect).
I have not read any Eastern Jewish Aramaic, but I'm pretty sure I have Siegal's textbook. I would recommend you take a look at everything in this references section and use what's best for you.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Babylonian_Aramaic

>>21868487
nice post. saved it in a text file for posterity.

>>21868487
If someone can copy this post and make variants for Greek, Hebrew, Arabic, Sanskrit, & Chinese then that would be nice. Basically it's a 4 point plan with a list of resources: grammar primers, beginner graded readers, intermediate adapted texts, & easier authentic texts and authors.

I'm at chapter 8 of LLPSI (lots of pronouns quis qui is ille hic in every case, number and gender) and it's waay harder to do than the chapter before. I mean, reading it is easy, but how am I supposed to cram so many pronoun declensions in my mind at once? This book has pacing issues.

>>21876077
at the end of LLPSI there are grammar tables. write them down on paper and memorize them. i used to review them every night before bed.

i used this quiz site to test myself too:
https://www.latintests.net/grammar/pronouns1.php
https://www.latintests.net/grammar/pronouns2.php

>>21876077
also find "tricks" like the genitive singular for masc, fem and neut is "huius" and dative singular is "huic" so you only need to memorise this. another trick is that neuter nominative and accusative are always the same. dative plural and ablative are all "his". etc etc.

just write the tables down and you'll start seeing patterns.

>>21876077
>I'm at chapter 8 of LLPSI (lots of pronouns quis qui is ille hic in every case, number and gender) and it's waay harder to do than the chapter before. I mean, reading it is easy, but how am I supposed to cram so many pronoun declensions in my mind at once? This book has pacing issues.
This is the chapter that most people quit and then I'd say chapter 13 is usually the last filter for any stragglers. Most people who pass that point will eventually finish the book or at least drop it and read real literature. My honest unpopular advice is stop using the book as your only resource it does not introduce grammar in a logical order for example you get the passive in like chapter 7 but don't even learn first person until like chapter 15. It's horribly paced with several infodump chapters and it doesn't get interesting story-wise until halway if not 2/3 of the way through.

Pick one of the grammar primers from this post >>21868487and use it alongside LLPSI. Also watch "Latin Tutorial" YouTube channel for brief grammar explanations. If you want something free you can get in pdf easily use D'ooge's primer or Collar & Daniell. If you are a visual learner who likes video explanations, then Wheelock has loads of slideshow lessons by various school teachers on YouTube that you can watch for every single chapter. I don't like that book, but this is an advantage for someone who learns this way. If you can learn fast Moreland & Fleischer won't hold your hand, but will catch you up quickly.

>>21876077
you literally just need to go memorise Latin morphology lmao

like it isn't fucking hard to memorise 5 declensions, 4 conjugations, adjectives which work like funky nouns, and a few pronoun tables, but the rewards are huge when you can instantly recognise every case, tense/mood/number.

anyone learning a highly inflected language without memorising morphology is a moron who doesn't like shortcuts

>>21876357
>anyone learning a highly inflected language without memorising morphology is a moron who doesn't like shortcuts
They think not memorizing morphology is the shortcut. Le natural method

>>21876121
>>21876138
ok thanks, will do that.
>>21876298
I'm using Familia Romana + exercitia + college companion. With this I can get a chapter a week on average, some chapters take only two days, some take longer. What do you think about this combination? If I add another grammar primer I think the pace will get so slow as to be discouraging to me.
>>21876357
yeah of course I need to memorize it you dick, I'm just complaining about the pace change in the book
>>21876374
you say this as if anyone using LLPSI was an evangelist for the 'natural' method. I'm not sold on any particular method and just want to get things done. I picked LLPSI because reading a little story along the way is way more motivating than doing pure grammar. In no moment did I think I could skip memorization. I've learned two languages before, I know memorization is unskippable for many purposes

>>21876427
if you're making progress, keep going. ignore the naysayers on here. they think they're above certain books and methods. a lot of people ITT study classics degrees at uni, so they think they're special but what they don't realise is that they'll be unemployed for a while after they graduate because 99.9% of people in the real world don't care about latin morphology.

>>21876427
>What do you think about this combination?
I have all of those books and it's not very efficient. Just use a primer like I said and you will fly through the rest of FR.
>If I add another grammar primer I think the pace will get so slow as to be discouraging to me.
>>21876357
All you need to learn Latin is a primer and something to read. You don't need the exercise book and the companion is mostly filler. It's just a more verbose version of a primer that follows the odd pacing and structure of FR. I have all the books you named and more books that you don't have. I'm telling you right now that you are going to hit a fucking wall and slow down even with those books you mentioned. Everyone who tries to learn the way you are doing it ends up quitting.
>you say this as if anyone using LLPSI was an evangelist for the 'natural' method. I'm not sold on any particular method and just want to get things done.
I find that hard to believe when you are making every excuse in the world to not use a normal textbook. No one is even telling you to drop the book that you are reading. People are just recommending that you read, watch, and studying other things so you don't fail like the others who've walked in these exact same footsteps.
> picked LLPSI because reading a little story along the way is way more motivating than doing pure grammar.
As someone who's significantly ahead of you, I can say that you have no idea the amount of boredom you are in for with this book. You will not be flying through chapters later and also using your preferred method will require a mind numbingly retarded amount of rereading that is so counterintuitive that is more of a commitment to an method than actual learning.

>>21876515
thanks for the encouragement
>>21876531
>Just use a primer like I said and you will fly through the rest of FR.
>You don't need the exercise book and the companion is mostly filler.
Okay, dropped the exercitia and the companion, downloaded Latin for Beginners by B. L. D'Ooge. I hope you're right about this.

>>21876584
>the companion
The companion is still useful for the vocab list with English definitions. Stop guessing the meanings of words. This is what's called 'free association' and it's dangerous when you are learning something that your language takes so many loan words from because you will guess the wrong meaning often. Words change as they are imported into other languages. For example in English "tandem" is an adverb that means something like "together in sequence/unity". In Latin it means "finally" or "at last". If you play that guessing game, you are going to get fucked hard when you try reading something that doesn't have repetitive prose, Dr. Seuss pictures, and marginal notes. It's a bad habit that should be abandoned.
>downloaded Latin for Beginners by B. L. D'Ooge.
Very easy book to do. I finished it last month and am breezing through the end of Familia Romana.
>I hope you're right about this.
I don't mean to sound rude, but this attitude that so many Latin learners on /clg/ have is so fucking toxic. Greek, Chinese, Arabic, Sanskrit, or Hebrew learners come here, ask for advice and then say thanks. You literally have to argue with a Latin learner on here just for them to take a recommendation to download a free fucking book. And even then a person who can barely read a sentence with dative of possession or ablative absolute wants you to know that they aren't yet convinced that you actually know what you're talking about because you are contradicting the original advice they got from the brightest minds of YouTube and Reddit. Will all do respect, fuck off. I was just trying to help because I tried to learn the exact same way you are and I hit a wall on the exact same point as you. The people who stuck to their ways ended up quitting and I'm still going strong.

>>21876640
>The companion is still useful for the vocab list with English definitions.
Good point. Will keep using those then.
>this attitude that so many Latin learners on /clg/ have is so fucking toxic.
I didn't mean to be as rude as I ended up being with that "I hope you're right". Sorry for that and thank you for your advice.

>>21876767
Ignore the outburst. I'm partly to blame with the toxicity. Just keep reading and don't give up. You cannot fail if you show up everyday and put in the effort.

>https://thelatinlibrary.com/101/
>https://dcc.dickinson.edu/latin-core-list1
>https://exercitia-latina.surge.sh/chapters
>https://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-forum/viewtopic.php?t=70592
>https://archive.org/details/bld-latin-for-beginners-key-rl
>http://lexicity.com/language/latin/

There is also a very cheap print of Latin For Beginners on Amazon for like 8 bucks that I have. If you don't want to read on a screen, then it's worth buying.

μέλλοντι μὲν κοιμηθῆναί μοι δέον δὲ βαμπίσαι νῆμα πρὶν δῦναι δόμον Ἄϊδος εἴσω

I am trying to write a novel
Could you guys help me translate this into Latin
>he died as all others have died
Also please make it like it was written in early modern Britain

autistic guide for learning latin by yourself

https://foundinantiquity.com/2023/03/11/latin-autodidacts-youre-working-way-too-hard-how-to-learn-latin-by-yourself-in-2023/

>>21876077
If how i did it is any metric or encouragement: about two subway rides to uni worth of repeating it over and over again in my head

People ITT seriously fucking underestimate how powerful the human memory is, I literally learned mnemonic techniques like memory palace stuff through learning latin/greek because it was like exercising a muscle I didn't know I had. You can create mnemonics at will within a day or two.

>>21878443
is that your blog?

I am unsure about this book exercise.

Is 'Eo tempore multi supplicium dederunt' really the best way to say "at that time many were punished"?

what the fuck is
>Ne itaque tale negativum

>>21878808
'supplicium dare' is idiomatic, yes

BROS.
St. Jerome's Latin is so different from that taught in Wheelocks

>>21878973
without context it would be something like "don't let thus this negative (thing)...."
in context makes more sense, I guess you got it from this
>Ne itaque tale negativum, quod imprimis regnat apud illos qui multa e mundo sapiunt, etiam inficiat et corrumpat simplices corde et simplices fide...
the 'ne' goes with 'inficiat'

>>21879022
didn't you read a rebourse? one chapter is like a big catalog of the different ages of latin, gold age, silver age, etc.

>>21879053
What's a reborse?

>>21878410
>early modern Britain
I'd think you have various registers depending on the author, including wholly refined classical-like writers
sicut alii periit
nihilo secus ac alii obiit
etc...

>>21878443
>studies Latin for years using 'grammar-translation'
>now strongly advocates for others to use a totally different method that just happens to be in right now
tale as old as time
also
>trusting anything a woman says, ever

>>21879043
how can it go with inficiat if inficiat is after etiam which starts a new clause? it looks like inficat et corrumpat is a phrase

>>21879043
>positive etiam
disgusting

>>21879465
>how can it go with inficiat if inficiat is after etiam which starts a new clause?
that's just irrelevant, etiam just means also/furthermore, the clause is "Ne itaque tale negativum etiam inficiat et corrumpat simplices corde et simplices fide"

>>21878724
no, found it on reddit.

>>21879001
>'supplicium dare' is idiomatic, yes
I hate this idiom so much. Every time I'm doing English to Latin exercises, I forget it and try to use some other verb phrase.

>>21879001
Thanks Anon, just felt wrong.

>>21879043
It goes with both inficiat and corrumpat.

>>21880126
true

>>21879001
It means “to give punishment?”

>>21879066
Maybe he means the Huysmans book of that title.

>>21880441
to undergo punishment oneself unless there's an indirect complement i.e to someone else
'supplicium' literally is related to supplicate, so I guess originally it's related to the act of supplicating an assembly or magistrate in case of punishment, hence the reflexive meaning
"do poenas" is similar and translates to being punished

>>21880479
I've seen "poenas dare" translate as "to pay the penalty".

>>21880479
>to undergo punishment oneself unless there's an indirect complement i.e to someone else
This is what makes it confusing. Sometimes it's like a reverse deponent verb where instead of looking passive and actually being active, it looks active and it's passive so the subject receives the punishment.

>>21880593
yeah, though more broadly the "poena" could mean a punishment in general
>nec soli poenas dant sanguine Teucri

>>21880593
>>21880644
When poena is used alone I believe it's "punishment" but when used with "dare" it modifies the meaning more like "fee" or "penalty". So if you want to communicate punishment and use "dare", I think you are supposed to use "supplicium".

>>21880644
Nor do the Teucrians alone pay the penalty with their blood?

>>21880847
yes, if you want to keep the word 'penalty' it also works that way, even if it obviously refers to killing on both sides(sack of Troy)

Would anyone be interested in reading an easy author like Nepos, Eutropius, or Caesar together in the thread? We can do a book a week maybe?

>>21879457
>>>/pol/

This is everything wrong with /clg/
>>>21881508
>Would anyone be interested in reading an easy author like Nepos, Eutropius, or Caesar together in the thread? We can do a book a week maybe?
Someone asks a genuinely productive question encouraging more posts about actual language learning and the post gets no replies.
>>21881649
>>>>/pol/
The very next poster ignores it just so he can shit fling about grammar translation vs input by calling someone a /pol/tard after they both took YouTube e-celeb bait.

>>21881719
then leave, faggot

>>21881508
I'd do it even though my asshole will get destroyed

>>21881758
If we have to do only one sentence a day, I don't mind the slow pace.

>>21881719
>everything wrong with /clg/
>posts cancerjack
Figlina

Bumperus

>cuius -> quoius
>cui -> quoiei
Come home, Roman man.

>>21881508
I've read much of these, if you guys need help I'm usually lurking t. OP

>>21867232
Demoralizing post. I'm currently learning Hebrew and expected the jump from that to Aramaic to be almost trivial.
Please tell me that the jump from Biblical to Mishnaic is trivial at least. Not worried about grammar so much, more about vocabulary. Would be cool if someone had done some analysis about what percentage of words in the Mishna occurred in the Tanakh.

I need help translating the Latin subjunctive if anyone can help. First, I read the subjunctive fine. My problem is that I don't understand the exact English equivalents. I think this is just my bad grammar showing, but when I have an ut clause I don't how if I should translate a sentence into English as "so that he may", "so that he might" or "so that he could/would/should"

Likewise, even if you think that translating into English is not important, when I have English to Latin exercises and the sentence is "so that he may love" I don't know which tense of the subjunctive to use vs if the sentence had said "so that he might love" or "so that he would love" etc.

Basically which Latin tenses correspond to English "may, might, would, could, should", etc?

>>21834764
>La Rouchefoucauld
I know a girl with that last name. She says she's directly related to hm. Fuck the french though.

>>21884444
mmh not a good idea imho to try and isolate it word for word like that, the meaning and context matter more and a 1to1 correspondence is hardly guaranteed given they languages work differently and you have stuff like consecutio temporum determining the tense based on the main clause
like, consider these examples where in the english you could reasonably find or start with the word "may", though other translations could be written
"di te iuvent"(present, realistic optative/wish) => "may the gods help you"
"ne eum iuveris"(perfect, negative iussive) => "you may not help him"
to translate into english what truly matters is to get the meaning, then you can use some variation to translate it, e.g purpose clauses introduced by "ut" could go from a simple "to ....." to "in order that .....", etc.... but then you also have consecutive type clauses introduced by "ut" + subj. that better translate often with "that" e.g tam [adjective/adverb] [verb] ut [result]
so first, recognize the construction/subordinate type, in both ways, e.g from english, are you expressing a wish? maybe a polite request? want to express a purpose? etc....

ΒΑΜΠ

>>21885611
gde?

>>21884832
Do I need to learn the names for all the different kinds of clauses?

>>21881719
I'm not calling him a /pol/tard because of his approach to language study, I'm calling him a /pol/tard because he's being a fucking male chauvinist pig.

>>21885658
There aren't that many and they're all fairly intuitive, the important thing is that you have a basic sense of the major different types

I used to go through Allen & Greenough to review a case or mood, and make mental notes of the ones that seemed obvious (like genitive possessive) and the ones that were like "wtf?" like the weird Atticizing genitive accusative things, and over time and with more practice, each time I went through, more and more things were in the "seems obvious" category

The main thing in my view is that you just don't want to feel frustrated when you're reading some use of the subjunctive or ablative or whatever it is that's troubling you, and you don't even have a sense of what it COULD be. If you see the subjunctive as a Mystery Mood that can do anything, you will be stressed every time you encounter it. But if your mind automatically knows it's 90% likely to be one of these X "major" uses of it you know instinctively (even if you can't remember the exact way one of them is termed), and 10% likely to be those other 3-4 uses you find fuzzy and ambiguous, at least you know it's just time to take a trip to the grammar at worst

Over time all the technical jargon will seem obvious from use

>>21885930
To be fair, women are evil, selfish, and stupid.

Pic rel comes from another thread on /lit/ related to classes at a university. I thought it was pretty funny.

What was the Iliad translation with a lot of fidelity and unrhymed meter? Someone was arguing it's the best one in a thread and I can't find it.
I looked through the list in that one site and the closest one I can think of is Brandreth, which I'm going to read in any case when I'm able to find it. But that name wasn't jumping out at me.

>>21886356
Lattimore maybe?

>>21886359
It was an older one but I didn't recognize the name on sight so who knows, good enough probably.

>>21885955
Women are evil? That's rich coming from the gender that commits something like 90% of all violent crime.

>>21886826
dicent mulieres necandum liberos suos medicandum esse

>>21884352
Oh boy, sorry to demoralise you.
The mishnaic Hebrew is not that different from biblical, but it's also not very similar. Let's look at some examples from sefaria (really recommend this page).שְׁנַיִם אוֹחֲזִין בְּטַלִּית, זֶה אוֹמֵר אֲנִי מְצָאתִיהָ וְזֶה אוֹמֵר אֲנִי מְצָאתִיהָ, זֶה אוֹמֵר כֻּלָּהּ שֶׁלִּי וְזֶה אוֹמֵר כֻּלָּהּ שֶׁלִּי, זֶה יִשָּׁבַע שֶׁאֵין לוֹ בָהּ פָּחוֹת מֵחֶצְיָהּ, וְזֶה יִשָּׁבַע שֶׁאֵין לוֹ בָהּ פָּחוֹת מֵחֶצְיָהּ, וְיַחֲלֹקוּ.
As you can see it's not that different, some verbs are declined differently (but it's not a big difference and you can find all of those verbs in Yitzhak Frank - Grammar for Gemara & Targum Onkelos_ An Introduction to Aramaic (2016, Maggid) which is avaliable on libgen.
In most cases final ם changed to final ן so male lural form is ין as in אוחזין from the verb אחז to hold. If you want the translation sefaria is the best - https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Bava_Metzia.1.1?lang=bi
Main problem with Talmud (including Mishna) is that is mostly based on oral discussions, so the text might seem very weird to you. How much can you understand from this text?

>>21884352
Keep up the good work, if you are interested, and there are more anons here who want to study the OT in the original language we can do a reading thread together.
Good luck with Hebrew!

>>21884352
Keep up the good work, if you are interested, and there are more anons here who want to study the OT in the original language we can do a reading thread together.
Good luck with Hebrew!

>>21875556
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Babylonian_Aramaic
I will look into it, I will print something and try to learn from it. בסייעתא דשמייא I will finally learn it.
I'm also interested in Jewish literature in Aramaic, do you know if there is any book written in this language that is younger than the Zohar?

>>21886153
link to the thread?

>>21868487
Thanks for that intermediate list

While searching for those books online I found a retelling of Robinson Crusoe in Latin over on Gutenberg. Relatively compelling story with just the right difficulty for that abyss between having learned the grammar, and fluency.

Anyone want to collectively read a textbook? I asked if anyone wanted to read an authentic text and it seems like there are way more beginners than intermediate or advanced people here. I wouldn't mind re-reading Wheelock or something else. Anything by Familia Romana, I've re-read it too many times.

How many years of study before you could sight read unfamiliar Latin texts? For me I cannot after 1.5 years.

>>21888012
>How many years of study before you could sight read unfamiliar Latin texts?
Do six months of XP grind reading simple stuff to extend your vocabulary. If you have around 2,500 words, you should probably get that up to 10,000. Grammatically you can also study etymology, morphology, & word formation with compounds and prefixes so you can exponentially expand your vocabulary. There's stuff to read on this list >>21868487

>>21888012
depends on the "tier" so to speak, most medieval stuff is generally easy to sight read after some years, but some classical authors with their peculiar style could still filter you at times if you haven't read them before

>Ingentibus opibus ibi comparatis, Corinthum redire voluit.
Why comparatis and not comparante as an ablative absolute?

>>21888012
Truly challenging authors will always be challenging. Sight reading 17th century basic Latin is very different from sight-reading classical or some weird classicizing idiosyncratic medieval shit.

I always make it my goal to understand and appreciate a text, not sight read. The latter comes with years, like being a good general handyman or woodsman after years of doing specific projects and camping/hiking trips. There's no one point in those hobbies at which everybody is guaranteed to be able to handle every possible scenario, and some people are naturals while others will always be kinda shit but still enjoy it anyway

>>21887955
What about Cambridge? I have those around and wouldn't mind going through them.

We could do it like a collective classroom thing. Follow the book's instructions but ask questions when you don't understand. The more experienced anons then answer the questions. Going by /clg/'s usual performance, by volume 3 or 4 the answers will start to be shitty and half-wrong or inconclusive as three idiots argue amongst themselves and all have the wrong interpretation. But by then, anybody reading along will have read 2-3 books and acquired the essential momentum anyway, and can figure it out for themselves from there.

>>21888328
>What about Cambridge?
Too many volumes. Need a single volume course.

>>21888306
it agrees with "Ingentibus opibus", they are the things being(passive) prepared/made ready

>>21888353
at last i see

>>21834540
The writers of Latin textbooks are such horny pervs. The practice sentences are always shit like:
The mountain man notices the beauty of the girls
The mountain man is swimming with the girls
The sailor won the girls
Kek

NOVUM
>>21888646
>>21888646
>>21888646

>>21852037
>It's the most beautiful poetry written in Arabic
A native disagrees (see pic), and learn Persian instead.

>>21858945
Fellow biblical Hebrew bro, please share as many content as you know for inpooting

>>21855387
>How do people use this CEFR system to rate ancient or literary languages?
He's talking about modern Hebrew

>>21868487
>1. Pick a grammar primer and finish it. Just finish it. Even if you hate it, just finish it.
>being a grammar cuck in 2023
Sorry loser, but better ways exist now

>Methodology. Since the middle ages most people have taught Greek with what is called the “Grammar-Translation Method”. This method treats the language more like a code you’ve got to learn to crack, rather than something you use and enjoy. With this method you’re swiftly introduced to complicated paradigms that you have to learn through rote memorization. In a lot of ways it feels like doing mathematics. In other words, it’s not at all like the way you learned to speak your mother tongue as a child. For most people it’s just too intimidating, so they leave it to the “professionals.”
https://freegreek.online/why-greek/

Inpooooot chads will always keep winning
https://freegreek.online/method/