/lit/ - Literature

>>21849205
This is trash

How is his last name pronounced?

>>21849225
Pynchon

>>21849218
How about this? Published when was 29, so probably written when he was 27/28:
>Oedipa had believed, long before leaving Kinneret, in some principle of the sea as redemption for Southern California (not, of course, for her own section of the state, which seemed to need none), some unvoiced idea that no matter what you did to its edges the true Pacific stayed inviolate and integrated or assumed the ugliness at any edge into some more general truth. Perhaps it was only that notion, its arid hope, she sensed as this forenoon they made their seaward thrust, which would stop short of any sea.

>>21849246
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcYXWfGt7DY

>>21849278
Nonsense. Bad attempts at poesy

>>21849218
>>21849324
I can sense the baldness and failure emanating from your posts...

>>21849341
Retarded shill

>one of the finest writers was a good writer at an early age
wow

>>21849218
>>21849324

Well, I'll have to disagree, especially considering his age in the first passage I posted. What I wrote in college is mogged so hard by that it's completely and totally emasculating.

Pynchon had his first story, "Mortality and Mercy in Vienna," published in 1959, when he was 22. It's available as a PDF on the Internet.

>>21849348
Your brain has been rendered goo by the internet.
I can tell you prefer things in a list format.

>>21849205
I’m NOT just saying this to be pretentious pseud, but this is the invariable style of a young adult who is very gifted (high IQ) but hasn’t learned to tone done the fancy vocab and the clever erudite allusions to sound brilliant. The uni instructor or the literary critic might often have some warmth or even adoration towards it, especially for how it sounds compared to plebs who can’t write or just don’t care, but even they will see it’s overwritten.

highly clever, big-brain purple prose is NOT the absolute pinnacle of writing. I personally admit Pynchon’s brain works a bit different from average people’s brains (a reputed girlfriend of Pynchon’s claims his IQ was “in the 190s” — no fucking joke — holy fucking shit if it’s not made up BTW) but honestly, his novels aren’t the things I go to for fun (except for “The Crying of Lot 49,” which I strangely love a lot, perhaps the most out of all his works, despite him saying in the intro to Slow Learner a similar thing to what I’m saying, basically that, “It was too overwritten, an obese version of a short story, and showed that I’d forgotten all I’d thought I’d learned about writing.”)

https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2013/08/thomas-pynchon-lost-and-found/311785/

Expand your tastes OP. Read minimalist authors like Hemingway. Consider the beauty of simplicity.

>>21849415
>highly clever, big-brain purple prose is NOT the absolute pinnacle of writing.

Is not NECESSARILY*** the pinnacle of writing. Sorry plebs (and chuds).

Also Carver, and Beckett.

>>21849205
>1 in a million talents seething they're not 1 in a billion
ok

>>21849205
why would you ever expect to be 21 in washington with nothing but literary prose on your lips? read as much as him if ur mad

>>21849436
Huh?

>>21849225
pinch un

>>21849205
>politics is dependent on weather
>or politics is like weather
>or something
>and people forget that, you know?
this is dumb, and OP is dumb for liking this

>>21849473
>>politics is dependent on weather
>>or politics is like weather
>>or something
>>and people forget that, you know?
>this is dumb, and OP is dumb for liking this

>>21849205
The reason that this excerpt is so impactful is because Pynchon was able to express himself authentically here. Like meme-lord DFW said, if an artist manages to be authentic and express his unique voice in his art, then "you will feel it in your nerve endings."

There is one advantage that writing has over other forms of art: not only can you afford to be narcissistic, but it is almost a prerequisite. The author necessarily has a narcissistic streak--literature is the art of the mind in isolation, both generated by and appreciated by, and for that reason it is highly individualistic. There are plenty of good musical works that have been written/contributed to by multiple people, but there are few (good, anyway) works of literature that have been written by multiple people.

This makes it easier to write: one struggle with any artistic pursuit is the paradoxical relationship with success. If you pursue success as an end, you tend to lack the passion in your work to make anything great or authentic or original. But on the other hand, if you are solely concerned with your own artistic whims without venerating success and therefore venerating the greats, you will lack the taste to generate anything great.

The obvious response is the "true artistic passion": he who is naturally selected to produce great writing both authentically venerates the greats (has good taste) and is concerned only with creating his own art without a fixation on success. This is true, but the problem is that we're even talking about this in the first place: the modern age is so focused on identity and a pathological self-awareness that any prospective 'true artists' will be ensnared by the self-awareness and fixation on success.

The answer now is a stopgap solution: channel the narcissism of literature, and see yourself as the exception, but exhaust the craft as if you were not the exception. The success/authenticity dichotomy is in some sense negated, you can go on writing and focusing solely on finding your artistic voice through the veneration of success.

Venerate success like Pynchon, but look carefully into your own soul to see what interests you, and look carefully at the success stories you venerate to see what interested them and what made their stories tick. Then you will, maybe, be able to forge an incisive, authentic voice for your art that belongs to you and you alone. You aren't going to do it at 21 like Pynchon and other prodigies who lucked out, but that doesn't mean you don't have the mystical sauce that creates great writing.

The old question of talent versus hard-work: I am telling you to negate the question, and believe in both.

>>21849473

Let me unpack this. The weather is being incredibly strange for this time of season (spring). It's raining a lot, and there's a "forlorness in the streets." The people who would usually be out and about are doing their own thing ("private meanderings"). Why? Well these people are Romantics and Romantics believe the soul is air, therefore they are most affected by the air (weather). Their folorn actions are like the stretto passage in a fugue (the imitation of the theme in a musical fugue, i.e. they are acting like the weather). This will be forgotten however in later months, because it's like they are IN a fugue, which rather than the musical definition he used earlier, he's using the medical one, which means a mental disorder often featuring short term amnesia.

>>21849494
well it's true he's not saying anything meaningful, I think my sarcastic interpretation of it is pretty accurate. you faggots keep sucking his cock because some jew told you he's important and that's really really sad

>>21849497

That's beautiful, anon. I've never saved a 4chan post before, but I'll save this one. Thank you.

This is good, and I’m not soft in my heart for Pynchon. Seemed choppy but he pulls it together by the end. Not prime Gass but definitely mogs anything posted on here

>>21849522
Do you have any Gass quotes you like on hand? I've read a lot about how great a prose writer he is, and I've been meaning to read him for the longest time now.

>>21849541
Yup.

>So, as it stands *ppppfftttt* we see our hero, the fat old professor, digging a *brraaaaaapp* tunnel *bbbrrrrrppppt*

>>21849415
>a reputed girlfriend of Pynchon’s claims his IQ was “in the 190s” — no fucking joke — holy fucking shit if it’s not made up BTW
It was made up. There is nothing 190 IQ worthy in his work and the guy himself admitted that he struggled with calculus at cornell. They asked his girlfriend well over 40 years later when she was near 70s, the fuck she remembers what that number was (she only peeked at the IQ test)

>>21849205
Can he write something without namedropping real people, events, places or anything thing with a proper noun or is he completely dependent on external entities?

>>21849497
>>21849415
>>21849350
>>21849205
There is absolutely nothing great about this excerpt. It isn't surprising that this guy isn't really counted among the actual great prose stylists of America, except within his cult.

The immediate mention of the romantic belief in soul as air makes it clear that he wasn't certain in his abilities with a metaphor and is trying to justify it with a reference. The metaphor itself is not original, weather affecting the soul of men is very old and romantic notion. What we are left with are the words themselves, but their usage doesn't herald any genius here.
>>21849278
This is even worse. The metaphor doesn't disclose anything profound or aesthetic. It delivers a shallow romantic message. This is the complete opposite of poetry.

>>21849205
That does remind me of how I used to write when I was like 20. Pain. But also endearing.

>>21849225
watch the simpsons clip

>>21849380
You are a retarded shill with no understanding of great prose.

>>21849218
>>21849324
>>21849348
>>21849415
>>21849473
>>21849634
>>21849664

>>21849706
Shut up, mouth breather. You don't even read.

>>21849674
You definitely didn't write like this. What a strange attempt at a humble brag. Sort yourself out and stop living in delusions.

>>21849802
Retarded pynchud shill. I am better read than you, and I read more than just trashy sentimental romanticism.

>>21849829
You read furry smut. Now go dilate.

>>21849324
He wrote this when he was 55
>When I'm stuck a day
>That's gray,
>And lonely,
>I just stick out my chin
>And Grin,
>And Say,
>Oh!
>The sun'll come out
>Tomorrow
>So ya gotta hang on
>'Til tomorrow
>Come what may
>Tomorrow! Tomorrow!
>I love ya Tomorrow!
>You're always
>A day
>A way

>>21849805
Shook pynchud shill

>>21849853
d i l a t e

>>21849205
I have never seen a good Pynchon excerpt posted.

>>21849225
Pinch-On

>>21849205
you've either got it or you don't

>>21849415
>Read minimalist authors like Hemingway
I couldn't care less about what you just wrote, but I can't wrap my mind around the fact that people actually think hemingway was any good
>5th grade writing level
>lame plots
>boring storytelling
if hemingway was even a decent writer, bukowski is the 20th century's shakespeare

>>21849415
Yeah no shit he was 21

>>21849205
The passage contains a few weaknesses in terms of prose style:

1. Wordiness: The passage could benefit from some trimming. For example, the sentence "Generally crowds like the one which would gather in the Old Heidelberg on weekday afternoons to drink Würtzburger and to sing Lili Marlene (not to mention The Sweetheart of Sigma Chi) are inevitably and incorrigibly Romantic" could be shortened to "Crowds at the Old Heidelberg on weekday afternoons are inevitably and incorrigibly Romantic, singing Lili Marlene and The Sweetheart of Sigma Chi."

2. Overuse of adjectives: The passage contains several adjectives that feel unnecessary and detract from the flow of the prose. For example, "a forlornness in the streets" could be shortened to "forlorn streets," and "private meanderings" could be shortened to "private wanderings."

3. Lack of clarity: The passage can be difficult to follow at times, particularly in the sentence "So that over and above the public components — holidays, tourist attractions — there are private meanderings, linked to the climate as if this spell were a stretto passage in the year's fugue." The use of musical terms and figurative language may be confusing to some readers.

4. Redundancy: The passage repeats the idea that the season is a "false spring" twice, which feels unnecessary.

5. Lack of concrete details: While the passage sets a mood and a sense of place, it could benefit from more concrete details to ground the reader in the scene. For example, the mention of "the streets" could be expanded to describe the buildings and people in the area.

Overall, while the passage contains some evocative language and imagery, it could benefit from more clarity, concision, and specificity to fully engage readers and propel the narrative forward.

>>21849415
>190IQ

No chance. Likely gifted-genius territory (130-150) with 1/10000 creativity. That's the recipe for most top tier writers except the deeply philosophical ones, I don't think a sub 160IQ could've written TBK desu, very rigorous work.

>>21850908
> For example, the mention of "the streets" could be expanded to describe the buildings and people in the area.
Kek, JoyceGPT has posted.

>>21850908
https://www.firstpost.com/world/chatgpt-aces-lsat-gre-but-fails-english-literature-12303682.html
No wonder.

>>21851044
Go on, point out where it's wrong

>>21851058
No.

>>21849205
I don't get it
it's just words that don't make sense

>>21851067
PYNCHED

>>21849225
Pinecone

>>21849415
You enormously fucking retarded gorilla nigger. You ruined my morning by airing out your immense retardation. Eat a dick. Fuck you.

>>21849205
>TFW you weren't born to a cursed yet noble lineage of Salemites
yeah sorry bro it just isn't gonna be you with the words

Good prose like this makes me feel nothing

People be saying April is the cruelest month
on GOD bro you aint been livin where the february slaps and then march slaps you again. nah bro that just aint it April nice as hell

>>21851175
what makes you feel anything

>>21851235
I do feel annoyed a lot but apart from that it's pretty dry lately heh good point

>>21849458
Kill
Yourself
!

>>21849512
>polfag is retarded
many such cases!

>>21851354
nta but whenever I hear someone go pin-CHON very pronouncedly I want to hit them

>>21849205
Pynchon is decent only in flashes. You too can do his coomedic schtick.

>>21849218
Yes

>>21849630
>the guy himself admitted that he struggled with calculus at cornell
His Cornell peer Vonnegut at least showed punctuation restraint.

>>21849664
>this guy isn't really counted among the actual great prose stylists of America, except within his cult
Bloom sucking his dick tells the tale.

>>21849430
He has the prose physiognomy of Theater Kid, all prolix all the time.

>>21849497
>if an artist manages to be authentic and express his unique voice in his art, then "you will feel it in your nerve endings."
That authenticity albatross is why he took the fast way down.

>muh climate


Can't believe I used to read this hipster faggot as a kid

>>21851614
I live in the great underground climate controlled hive too. Looking forward to Refrigeration Fridays!

>>21851614
>becomes more pseud as he ages
tragic

>>21851444
Trips for such a bitter post. Sorry you were never published lmao

>>21849415
Actual pain to read something so deeply average in its stupidity.

>>21849205
It's insane how much you faggots have a hate boner for this guy.
He's alright. His prose is way more overblown that than it needs to be, often too dry and boring, but some of his books are solid.
There are far bigger frauds in literature than Pynchon. But of course, you idiots always have to take things to extremes. Why bother? As the zoomers say, he's pretty mid bro. Who cares?

>>21849205
This is effortlessly good, really impressive stuff.
>this thread
I'm actually glad to see most anons can't appreciate good prose, because the average post on here is worse than trash and betrays utter intellectual bankruptcy. It'd be fucking alarming if all the children pretending to be literate found good things good.

I'm not trying to be edgy. That is unironically garbage writing.

>>21849205
Its almost as good as Waldun's intro in Lacademie.
Anyhow, when I was in college, I had a huge chrush on my lit teacher and I had sourced out her favorite east europeon postmodern writer, and had crunched about a half of its corpus. By then I could generate b tier essays similar in style and context to great pleasure of my teacher's.
So the question is which authors were the defining influences of Pynchon? Pls share .

>>21852731
There is nothing great about this prose. At best it is eloquent but doesn't point at some great genius his shills have deluded themselves into believing. You want great prose by a young 22-23 year old writer? Read Buddenbrooks by Mann, or Lawrence Durrell's Black book. This doesn't measure up to them.